S20.E10: Alta Kockers

[SarahPrtr]

On 11/30/2018 at 3:36 PM, Fellaway said:

Since when does Benson care if Albany has passed pertinent laws before bringing people in for things she thinks should be a crime?  And what exactly does Rollins find "special" about Dr. Al?

Probably just the 'Dr' part. 

On 11/30/2018 at 3:40 PM, wknt3 said:

It was sorely lacking some of the little things that made old school SVU so good. The Yiddish slurs badly needed some dry wit instead of just righteous indignation. I could just see Munch saying something like "I believe the polite term is Negroes" and when they found the "booby trapped" passageway it would have definitely been played more for comedy and come off better.

Oh, John Munch, how I miss you!!!  He definitely would have had the perfect comeback!  I love how he used his acerbic wit and sarcasm to correct people.

[dttruman]

8 hours ago, FozzyBear said:

Also how dumb is this group of detectives not to wonder if the whole Bobbi persona wasn’t completely made up after the publisher admired hiring a Street kid to play him?

That part I kind of bought because they were almost taking it from another episode. When confronted the publisher showed them everything. The only thing I thought suspicious, was the publisher finding out who he is giving the money to or getting some assurance he is dealing with the right person.

[hatchetgirl]

What was this?  Law and Order: a very special episode? If the actors were different, i would have thought it was a different show. 

I am tired of Amanda just shaking her head disappointedly! Is that in the actress' contract? 

Cousin Benson is only just on now? Has he always wanted to be an actor and she threw him a bone finally or is he down on his luck, needs any job "oh hey call cousin Benson she has work for you!"

[FozzyBear]

Did we ever find out why the brother killed their mom? If she was going to die so soon what was the theory of motive?

I wish they would just make Carisi the ADA for SVU already. It’s so dumb that he would go though all the work and expense of going to law school and passing the bar and then show no interest in being a lawyer. What was the plan with the law school subplot anyway?

[shapeshifter]

16 minutes ago, FozzyBear said:

Did we ever find out why the brother killed their mom? If she was going to die so soon what was the theory of motive?

They got as far as speculating how it would play before the jury:

• The boys who loved her so much that when she passed, they couldn't bear to see her buried in 6 feet of dirt out in Queens, an entré for hungry worms or worse yet, shoved into a flaming hot oven, with what's left of her kept in a jar on a mantel in a living room.
  Joe and Ben loved their mother Rose so much, they kept her as she was and where she wanted to be: in her home.
  If you ask me, that's love . . .

and then Judd Hirsch's character leapt up and confessed before dropping dead of a heart attack.
I assumed the younger brother actually smothered her to put her out of her pain.
But, yeah, there were more hanging chads on this one than in all of the 2000 Florida election booths.
I'm still of the opinion that it was supposed to be the molester's body in the freezer (whether Vincent's or a relative's) but that Judd Hirsch would not play someone who murdered someone that way--which is also why I think it was a mercy killing--assuming they really did love the mom and didn't resent her for not protecting them.

[illdoc]

1 minute ago, shapeshifter said:

worse yet, shoved into a flaming hot oven, with what's left of her kept in a jar on a mantel in a living room.

Being Jewish, they probably wouldn't cremate her. On the other hand, they would have buried her within 24 hours (or as soon as feasible), assuming they kept to their faith.

[Xeliou66]

18 minutes ago, FozzyBear said:

Did we ever find out why the brother killed their mom? If she was going to die so soon what was the theory of motive?

I wish they would just make Carisi the ADA for SVU already. It’s so dumb that he would go though all the work and expense of going to law school and passing the bar and then show no interest in being a lawyer. What was the plan with the law school subplot anyway?

Once again I will explain, Carisi wouldn’t start out as the ADA for SVU, that’s a prominent position that only someone with some courtroom experience would get, he would start out at a lower position and then he could become a lead prosecutor after he got some experience. So switching Carisi over to being the ADA would be incredibly unrealistic. Besides, Carisi seems to like where he is now, and I think the law school subplot was to give Carisi more background and to show that he has an interest in and is knowledgeable about the law, and can provide legal insight into SVU’s cases, I like that aspect of Carisi.

[FozzyBear]

24 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Once again I will explain, Carisi wouldn’t start out as the ADA for SVU, that’s a prominent position that only someone with some courtroom experience would get, he would start out at a lower position and then he could become a lead prosecutor after he got some experience. So switching Carisi over to being the ADA would be incredibly unrealistic. Besides, Carisi seems to like where he is now, and I think the law school subplot was to give Carisi more background and to show that he has an interest in and is knowledgeable about the law, and can provide legal insight into SVU’s cases, I like that aspect of Carisi.

I understand this is something that would never happen in the real world. I am not stupid and do understand how these things work. I am talking about in the completely ridiculous world of this show where everyone in SVU does whatever the hell they want.  In the world of this being an oddly written (at best) TV show, it feels like a very strange writhing choice to have Carisi not only attend and graduate from law school and pass the bar and talk about all these things in the show and get rid of the ADA who’s been on the show and then just sort of drop it all. It feels like the writers gave him law school as some sort of character choice without knowing what to do with it.

[Xeliou66]

I don’t find anything about it strange, the legal stuff just adds another layer to Carisi’s character, Detective Lupo on the Mothership was studying the law as well and would sometimes add legal insight. 

I’ve never found SVU to be “completely ridiculous”, sure some of the plots have been such as the monkeys in basketballs and stuff like that but overall the show does try to keep an air of realism and having Carisi become the ADA with no courtroom experience would be the show jumping the shark. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, illdoc said:

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

worse yet, shoved into a flaming hot oven, with what's left of her kept in a jar on a mantel in a living room.

Being Jewish, they probably wouldn't cremate her. On the other hand, they would have buried her within 24 hours (or as soon as feasible), assuming they kept to their faith

I assumed "worse yet, shove her into a flaming hot oven" was supposed to conjure images of Nazi exterminations (it made me cringe)—either to potentially demonstrate to a jury (if no plea was reached) why the Jewish brothers wouldn't want to cremate their mother, and/or to emotionally jar the brothers at that moment—which it might have—contributing to the older alta kocker's "confession" (I think we're at least supposed to wonder if the younger brother did it).
Regarding burying her within the 24 hour window: I guess the freezer was her tomb.

[shksabelle]

WTH was that. Wallace Shawn and Judd Hirsch were standouts, but the storyline was jumbled and bizarre. 

And Benson marching out indignantly because an old man used what is, admittedly, a slur. But, FFS, grow up. You’re an NYPD police Lieutenant. Shouldn’t you have a little thicker skin. 

For the record, many moons ago I was briefly engaged to a Jewish guy. When he took me home to Mama, she literately proclaimed “Get this shiksa out of my house.”  I have worn that term as a badge of honor ever since. 

[dttruman]

5 hours ago, FozzyBear said:

It’s so dumb that he would go though all the work and expense of going to law school and passing the bar and then show no interest in being a lawyer.

I don't know if they are holding this back for just such an episode, or if a major producer of this tv series thought it was taking something away from another character on the show.

Edited December 2, 2018 by dttruman

[dttruman]

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Once again I will explain, Carisi wouldn’t start out as the ADA for SVU, that’s a prominent position that only someone with some courtroom experience would get, he would start out at a lower position and then he could become a lead prosecutor after he got some experience. So switching Carisi over to being the ADA would be incredibly unrealistic. Besides, Carisi seems to like where he is now, and I think the law school subplot was to give Carisi more background and to show that he has an interest in and is knowledgeable about the law, and can provide legal insight into SVU’s cases, I like that aspect of Carisi.

And once again I will explain it too. All of what you say is true, but we are dealing with a tv series that takes place in Bensonland. This is a place where whatever Mariska Haritay wants, she gets. If she wants Carisi to be the ADA, it will happen, but it may take an episode or two to accomplish it. The first episode may have Carisi being appointed as a ADA in training and he second chairs a Stone prosecution. In the second episode Stone is stricken with some disease or is killed off and McCoy makes an special appearance to appoint Carisi as the new ADA. The realism maybe lost, but Hargitay's demand it met.

[atlantaloves]

Okay, oy vey, that's it for me....this show was the worst. I am through. Talk about making no sense at all...it's as bad as a week or two ago when every other line of the series was "are you okay".  Give me a break. Dum Dum.

[dttruman]

1 hour ago, shksabelle said:

For the record, many moons ago I was briefly engaged to a Jewish guy. When he took me home to Mama, she literately proclaimed “Get this shiksa out of my house.”  I have worn that term as a badge of honor ever since.

I wonder if some of these jewish guys manipulate their mothers with this kind of reaction. Their plan of attack is they want something from their mothers, but who will not relent to their demands. So they bring home a "shiksa" to meet their mothers and the mothers quickly abandon their previous stand as long as they stop dating the shiksa. But this whole scenario could apply to any ethnic or religious group. Bottom line for all this, I hope the guy apologized for his mother behavior. If not, you were and are a lot better off.

Edited December 2, 2018 by dttruman

[Fellaway]

4 hours ago, FozzyBear said:

In the world of this being an oddly written (at best) TV show, it feels like a very strange writhing choice to have Carisi not only attend and graduate from law school and pass the bar and talk about all these things in the show and get rid of the ADA who’s been on the show and then just sort of drop it all. It feels like the writers gave him law school as some sort of character choice without knowing what to do with it.

My take on this:  Carisi passed the bar at the end of Season 17 but passed on interviewing for a position at Brooklyn's DA's office because the timing didn't seem right with Dodds having just been killed.  Makes sense.  Then, with the start of Season 18, Leight, the guy who brought Carisi onto the show and charted his path, is gone.  He may have had intentions to do more with that aspect of Carisi's character, but we'll sadly never know.  Since then we've had two regime changes with showrunners coming on who barely know Carisi exists let alone who he is as a character.  Hence, lines like Benson's recent "Going to law school doesn't make you a lawyer" to Carisi.  Perhaps not, but passing the bar does, even if he's not practicing.

Personally, I'm glad Carisi is still with the squad.  The cop aspect of the show interests me more than the courtroom aspect, plus, if he were SVU's ADA, they'd have to give him existential crises, guilt-ridden drinking binges, and sexcapades.  That's the flavor of the day and are reserved for characters they know exist.  

I will never not miss Leight.  And I'd pay him money to steal Carisi for Hate Crimes.

[SarahPrtr]

51 minutes ago, Fellaway said:

My take on this:  Carisi passed the bar at the end of Season 17 but passed on interviewing for a position at Brooklyn's DA's office because the timing didn't seem right with Dodds having just been killed.  Makes sense.  Then, with the start of Season 18, Leight, the guy who brought Carisi onto the show and charted his path, is gone.  He may have had intentions to do more with that aspect of Carisi's character, but we'll sadly never know.  Since then we've had two regime changes with showrunners coming on who barely know Carisi exists let alone who he is as a character.  Hence, lines like Benson's recent "Going to law school doesn't make you a lawyer" to Carisi.  Perhaps not, but passing the bar does, even if he's not practicing.

Personally, I'm glad Carisi is still with the squad.  The cop aspect of the show interests me more than the courtroom aspect, plus, if he were SVU's ADA, they'd have to give him existential crises, guilt-ridden drinking binges, and sexcapades.  That's the flavor of the day and are reserved for characters they know exist.  

I will never not miss Leight.  And I'd pay him money to steal Carisi for Hate Crimes.

Everything you said ^^

 

If I worked my ass off to pass the freaking Bar and had Benson tell me that I'm not a lawyer, I'd almost risk my job and tell her to FO.  Even if Carisi were to become an ADA, he'll still have Benson tell him what to do because she'll still think that she's Carisi's boss.  Again, FO Benson!!!

 

Peter Scanavino has been on pretty much all of the other L&O shows and it would be great to have him as a lead for Hate Crimes... where he doesn't have to work with Benson and we get to see him working as a cop without having to see MH.  She's become so insufferable.  Or Rollins.  The only reason long-time fans haven't completely abandoned the show is because of Fin and Carisi.  If they go, we'll ALL go!

[ChristiKRN]

I thought this episode was actually pretty good.  To echo everyone's else thoughts, Wallace Shawn and Judd Hirsch were excellent.  The storyline was also OK; a few good twists to hold your interest.  I don't think they needed the subplot of mercy-killing  the mother; it just seemed like a thrown-in idea.  The Ben and joe story in itself was enough to carry the show due to Shawn and Hirsch's acting expertise.  

I am not liking the "formula" the show is using. We see Carisi and Fin for a little while in the first half,  mainly for investigating at the crime scene/executing warrants and then they disappear in the second half.  Fin's contribution was negligible in this episode, and there is never enough Carisi.  We just keep getting a whole lot of Benson and Rollins as being the main ones who can speak with victims and suspects with a dash of Benson telling the ADA how to do his job.   Isn't Rollins supposed to be on desk duty only? Why was she going to the prison instead of Fin or Carisi? 

We are seeing Rollins being set up for a major downfall/personal storyline from hell ( for us the viewers) with Dr. Al.  He's gone from the boyfriend who cheats on her with prostitutes to  wanting to pay for her abortion to being someone special/something more or less  like being married.  WTH?? I guess having money and the perks that go along with it can make a person overlook a lot of glaring flaws. 

They made a point to mention  "Vincent" many times; I wonder if there will be a future episode where we meet him as an elderly serial child molester/rapist?  Good reason to bring back Wallace Shawn!

[Bexx88]

11 hours ago, dttruman said:

And once again I will explain it too. All of what you say is true, but we are dealing with a tv series that takes place in Bensonland. This is a place where whatever Mariska Haritay wants, she gets. If she wants Carisi to be the ADA, it will happen, but it may take an episode or two to accomplish it. The first episode may have Carisi being appointed as a ADA in training and he second chairs a Stone prosecution. In the second episode Stone is stricken with some disease or is killed off and McCoy makes an special appearance to appoint Carisi as the new ADA. The realism maybe lost, but Hargitay's demand it met.

“Mr McCoy, should we perform an interview for the ADA position, since it is quite an important role and we should make sure the person hired is suitable, or are you just going to continue to hand the job to the first sad looking white man who walks in off the street? Oh, okay. ADA Carisi it is then.”

Edited December 2, 2018 by Bexx88

[TV Diva Queen]

It’s is my opinion that Carisi isn’t smart or talented enough to be an ADA. In Bensonland or any other land....  ADA’s are the cream of the crop. 

[Fellaway]

2 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

It’s is my opinion that Carisi isn’t smart or talented enough to be an ADA. In Bensonland or any other land....  ADA’s are the cream of the crop. 

Stone, he of the failed show, is the cream of the crop?

[CrystalBlue]

5 hours ago, Fellaway said:

Stone, he of the failed show, is the cream of the crop?

THE District Attorney is supposed to be or should be the cream of the crop.  ADA's are Assistant DAs and as such, some are starting out in their careers while others have more experience.

[Fellaway]

6 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

THE District Attorney is supposed to be or should be the cream of the crop.  ADA's are Assistant DAs and as such, some are starting out in their careers while others have more experience.

I suppose we could spitball it and say Stone is starting over since he moved from Chicago to NYC, but I can't conceive of a universe where Stone would ever be considered the cream of the crop.

[dttruman]

8 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

THE District Attorney is supposed to be or should be the cream of the crop.  ADA's are Assistant DAs and as such, some are starting out in their careers while others have more experience.

 

1 hour ago, Fellaway said:

I suppose we could spitball it and say Stone is starting over since he moved from Chicago to NYC, but I can't conceive of a universe where Stone would ever be considered the cream of the crop.

I wonder why they haven't had McCoy on the show for different episodes, considering what Stone has gone through privately and professionally. Even it is just to come in and ask him how he is doing.  I guess they just don't want anyone to upstage the Benson character.

[Xeliou66]

4 hours ago, dttruman said:

 

I wonder why they haven't had McCoy on the show for different episodes, considering what Stone has gone through privately and professionally. Even it is just to come in and ask him how he is doing.  I guess they just don't want anyone to upstage the Benson character.

Not only have we not had a McCoy appearance, we haven’t even had a McCoy reference!! It’s pathetic how they won’t even mention Stone talking to him. We also haven’t had a reference to Dodds even though it’s obvious he would be involved in some of their cases, especially when Benson arrested a federal agent for doing his job. All of this just shows that they don’t want even mention any character with more authority than St Olivia because this is the Olivia Benson hour and they want Benson to have all of the power and attention. 

[CrystalBlue]

9 hours ago, Fellaway said:

I suppose we could spitball it and say Stone is starting over since he moved from Chicago to NYC, but I can't conceive of a universe where Stone would ever be considered the cream of the crop.

Stone leaving Chicago and starting over in NY wouldn't negate his work and life experiences.  I think Peter Stone was supposed to be COTC because he is Ben Stone's son, but the L&Overse assassinated his character with his sexcapades and pointless sister storyline, which took away screen time for Peter to become more of a lawyer onscreen and less of a grief-stricken brother who doesn't stand up to Benson nearly enough.

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Not only have we not had a McCoy appearance, we haven’t even had a McCoy reference!! It’s pathetic how they won’t even mention Stone talking to him. We also haven’t had a reference to Dodds even though it’s obvious he would be involved in some of their cases, especially when Benson arrested a federal agent for doing his job. All of this just shows that they don’t want even mention any character with more authority than St Olivia because this is the Olivia Benson hour and they want Benson to have all of the power and attention. 

I'm no big Olivia fan, but I think this is more of a writing/franchise issue than keeping Benson in the spotlight. The same complaints of connection to the Mothership being played down were also made for L&O: CI. (So much so, people were actually happy when Bobby even referenced McCoy in S8 there.) And I wouldn't be at all shocked, since Wolf uses the same people, if many of those writers are now on SVU. (Julie Martin, as one example. Rick Eid, another, and so on...)

Why these writers won't/don't use those ties, I don't know. Maybe having to pay Mothership actors money for their characters? Either way, Hargitay may be blamed for a lot, but this isn't all her.

[Xeliou66]

Last season we had a lot of Mothership tie ins : McCoy’s appearance in The Undiscovered Country and several more references to him, Ben Stone’s funeral, 2 appearances from Olivet, 2 appearances from Dworkin.

This season we’ve had nothing, not even a reference to McCoy, and Dodds hasn’t even been mentioned and he’s an SVU character from recent seasons. I think this is because they want to give Benson all of the screen time and authority, they don’t want anyone to be above her, so she can say things like “if you won’t do it, I’ll find an ADA who will” to Stone in Zero Tolerance about prosecuting the agent, as if Benson is in charge of the ADA’s and can do whatever the hell she wants. All of the focus has to be on Benson, and when it’s not on Benson it’s on Rollins drama or Stone drinking.

Fin and Carisi are the sole bright spots of the show, and they get the least amount of screen time. I could watch a whole episode of just them solving a case.

[CrystalBlue]

Another thought:  We know Rollins is pregnant, yet they need to shove it down our throats each episode.  Here we had Judd Hirsch wasting valuable screen time having a tete a tete about her baby and whether she's married.  We already know this; the character should have been focusing on his predicament, not Amanda's baby drama.

[Xeliou66]

30 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

Another thought:  We know Rollins is pregnant, yet they need to shove it down our throats each episode.  Here we had Judd Hirsch wasting valuable screen time having a tete a tete about her baby and whether she's married.  We already know this; the character should have been focusing on his predicament, not Amanda's baby drama.

Everything has to revolve around Benson and Rollins, even when the focus should be on the plot.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Xeliou66

[Fellaway]

7 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Stone leaving Chicago and starting over in NY wouldn't negate his work and life experiences.

In the real world, maybe, but the impression I got from his entrance on the scene on SVU was definitely a starting over vibe.  Could certainly be wrong.  I'd have to rewatch Undiscovered Country to verify, but I don't wanna watch that ep ever again.  I still count it the worst ever in SVU history.  Talk about character assassination.

7 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I think Peter Stone was supposed to be COTC because he is Ben Stone's son, but the L&Overse assassinated his character with his sexcapades and pointless sister storyline, which took away screen time for Peter to become more of a lawyer onscreen and less of a grief-stricken brother who doesn't stand up to Benson nearly enough.

If these writers think anything about Stone's portrayal denotes "cream of the crop," they really need to reacquaint themselves with the meaning of that phrase.  Bland to dissolute =/= cream of the crop.  Seriously, if this is all the better he can handle his grief and guilt over his sister, he'd best go on a leave of absence.  His indiscriminate sexcapades from the past have already come back to bite him on the ass.  His current antics, plus the drinking, could affect his ability to do his job in any number of ways.  Not just for his own sake should he go on a leave of absence.

These writers, I believe they do want us to see him as the best and the brightest, but they want the drama of his grief and guilt and drinking, etc.  They don't seem to understand at all that the latter is thoroughly cutting him off at the knees in establishing the former.  I'd respect it all better if they just went all in in acknowledging that he's not the best human being, maybe not even the best lawyer, that he's a work in progress.  Don't tell us one thing, then show us the other.

3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Fin and Carisi are the sole bright spots of the show, and they get the least amount of screen time. I could watch a whole episode of just them solving a case.

Considering how Benson and Stone, the two characters getting the most air time these days, are coming across, maybe less screen time for Fin and Carisi is a good thing.  Geez, I want Leight to take Carisi for Hate Crimes.  It won't happen, but a girl can dream...

Edited December 7, 2018 by Fellaway

[dttruman]

12 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I'm no big Olivia fan, but I think this is more of a writing/franchise issue than keeping Benson in the spotlight. The same complaints of connection to the Mothership being played down were also made for L&O: CI. (So much so, people were actually happy when Bobby even referenced McCoy in S8 there.) And I wouldn't be at all shocked, since Wolf uses the same people, if many of those writers are now on SVU. (Julie Martin, as one example. Rick Eid, another, and so on...)

Why these writers won't/don't use those ties, I don't know. Maybe having to pay Mothership actors money for their characters? Either way, Hargitay may be blamed for a lot, but this isn't all her.

I would agree with some of this, but there is one major difference that separates, SVU from the others. Neither the Mothership (L&O) or L&O: CI  had their starring actors as an executive producer, like L&O: SVU.

[dttruman]

12 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Another thought:  We know Rollins is pregnant, yet they need to shove it down our throats each episode.  Here we had Judd Hirsch wasting valuable screen time having a tete a tete about her baby and whether she's married.  We already know this; the character should have been focusing on his predicament, not Amanda's baby drama.

Is this one of their little examples they like to use to show that "times, they are a changing". Traditional customs are changing, as well a person's gender can change. I wonder how Hirsch's character would have reacted to that one?

Edited December 7, 2018 by dttruman

[CrystalBlue]

14 hours ago, dttruman said:

Is this one of their little examples they like to use to show that "times, they are a changing". Traditional customs are changing, as well a person's gender can change. I wonder how Hirsch's character would have reacted to that one?

Probably.  While no one bats any eyelashes at unwed mothers anymore, they seem to have used Amanda's life as an example that Judd Hirsch's character (and his brother) were stuck in the olden days.  We already knew that or would have known that (I can't remember which scenes came first) when Judd Hirsch was using Yiddish terms that would be deemed politically incorrect in today's world.  The brothers would surely be confused if they encountered the Transgender Restroom!

[Myra]

One of the season's best episodes (and loads better than the previous one) due to the very fine acting by Judd Hirsch and Wallace Shawn. Also, the directing was spot on as the two characters alternately told their stories. Writer(s) need to stop with the "with all due respect", "this is on _" and Mariska telling people "it's not your fault." I love Carisi and Fin, Rollins not so much anymore. And I really miss Barba! To be fair, he was a tough act to follow but this Stone character walks around like he's got a broomstick up his arse. Sad to say that unless this show gathers some steam after the new year I won't mind if it isn't renewed for a 21st season.

Also, I got a bit of an "Unstrung Heroes" vibe with the two eccentric NYC Jewish brothers cloistered in that big house.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Myra

[dttruman]

9 hours ago, Myra said:

I really miss Barba! To be fair, he was a tough act to follow but this Stone character walks around like he's got a broomstick up his arse. Sad to say that unless this show gathers some steam after the new year I won't mind if it isn't renewed for a 21st season.

When the Stone character was introduced, I thought he would be a stern, no nonsense type of guy who is tough but fair. In less than a half of a season, they managed to turn him into an "on again off again" lush who becomes an emotional mess when he doesn't know if he had consensual sex. He also has become Benson's lap dog which is impressive, because it took Barba 5 or 6 seasons to reach that summit. Did the producers (and writers) do a rush job because this could be the last season, or is Hargitay just so paranoid of the Stone character becoming a strong popular one?

[CrystalBlue]

6 hours ago, dttruman said:

When the Stone character was introduced, I thought he would be a stern, no nonsense type of guy who is tough but fair. In less than a half of a season, they managed to turn him into an "on again off again" lush who becomes an emotional mess when he doesn't know if he had consensual sex. He also has become Benson's lap dog which is impressive, because it took Barba 5 or 6 seasons to reach that summit. Did the producers (and writers) do a rush job because this could be the last season, or is Hargitay just so paranoid of the Stone character becoming a strong popular one?

I'm thinking rush job.  They know they're going for the 21 season record and then Dick Wolf will pull the plug.  Maybe Mr. Wolf will choose another city and have L&0:SVU character cross-overs and we'll see the gang has transferred to said city, hopefully, sans Benson.

[Xeliou66]

15 hours ago, dttruman said:

When the Stone character was introduced, I thought he would be a stern, no nonsense type of guy who is tough but fair. In less than a half of a season, they managed to turn him into an "on again off again" lush who becomes an emotional mess when he doesn't know if he had consensual sex. He also has become Benson's lap dog which is impressive, because it took Barba 5 or 6 seasons to reach that summit. Did the producers (and writers) do a rush job because this could be the last season, or is Hargitay just so paranoid of the Stone character becoming a strong popular one?

I thought Stone was a great addition when he first came on, a by the book ADA who didn’t tolerate unprofessional behavior and wasn’t afraid to disagree with Benson or call SVU out, I loved when he tore into Benson in Chasing Demons for hiding Cassidy out in her apartment. Unfortunately since his sister’s death, Stone has softened, he’s shown signs of being a Benson bot at times, he hasn’t gotten a lot to do in court, he’s spent a lot of his time drinking and hooking up with random women, and he was unprofessional in Exile. I’m hoping in the second half of the season Stone becomes like the season 19 Stone and doesn’t become a full on Benson bot, but I’m not confident in it.

I think because of Hargitay’s influence, everything has to revolve around St Olivia and she always has to be right, and they don’t want another character to become more popular than Benson while having conflict with her, so they’ve softened Stone.

[dttruman]

11 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

they don’t want another character to become more popular than Benson

I don't remember where I heard this phrase from but I do believe it describe this situation perfectly. I also believe only the older generation of this discussion group will probably understand the reference. Hargitay is probably afraid of the "Fonzie Effect" when it comes to the Stone character.

If you were a fan of "Happy Days" you might get the connection right away. Arthur (Fonzie) Fonzarelli was a minor secondary character on Happy Days at first but went on to be the most popular character on the No. 1 tv show at that time.

Edited December 11, 2018 by dttruman

[Fellaway]

46 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I don't remember where I heard this phrase from but I do believe it describe this situation perfectly. I also believe only the older generation of this discussion group will probably understand the reference. Hargitay is probably afraid of the "Fonzie Effect" when it comes to the Stone character.

If you were a fan of "Happy Days" you might get the connection right away. Arthur (Fonzie) Fonzarelli was a minor secondary character on Happy Days at first but went on to be the most popular character on the No. 1 tv show at that time.

I'm definitely of an age.  ::g::  But I seriously can't see anyone worrying about Stone eclipsing anyone in popularity, he's so lacking in charisma.

[Xeliou66]

23 minutes ago, Fellaway said:

I'm definitely of an age.  ::g::  But I seriously can't see anyone worrying about Stone eclipsing anyone in popularity, he's so lacking in charisma.

I disagree that Stone lacks charisma, I think he has personality, he reminds me somewhat of a father but he’s a bit more visibly passionate. And I think his by the book style and how he won’t tolerate unprofessional behavior is very popular amongst fans who are sick of unprofessional crap from Benson and SVU and no one calling out Benson or disagreeing with her, so I think a lot of fans find Stone to be a breath of fresh air because of that.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Xeliou66

[dttruman]

20 hours ago, Fellaway said:

I seriously can't see anyone worrying about Stone eclipsing anyone in popularity, he's so lacking in charisma.

Maybe their was some charisma at first but then it was lost when Benson kept badgering him and it culminated in "Zero Tolerance" when they took the Feds to court. I personally don't think Stone's boss would have ever let that happen.

19 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I disagree that Stone lacks charisma, I think he has personality, he reminds me somewhat of a father but he’s a bit more visibly passionate. And I think his by the book style and how he won’t tolerate unprofessional behavior is very popular amongst fans who are sick of unprofessional crap from Benson and SVU and no one calling out Benson or disagreeing with her, so I think a lot of fans find Stone to be a breath of fresh air because of that.

I agree with this description, but there is one flaw. It is very inconsistent. One moment (or episode), he is what you expect and calls out Benson for her extreme bias, the next moment (or episode) he is a quivering mess, (almost) asking Benson for absolution. You just don't know what you are going to get.

[Xeliou66]

9 hours ago, dttruman said:

Maybe their was some charisma at first but then it was lost when Benson kept badgering him and it culminated in "Zero Tolerance" when they took the Feds to court. I personally don't think Stone's boss would have ever let that happen.

I agree with this description, but there is one flaw. It is very inconsistent. One moment (or episode), he is what you expect and calls out Benson for her extreme bias, the next moment (or episode) he is a quivering mess, (almost) asking Benson for absolution. You just don't know what you are going to get.

Stone was awesome for all of last season, but this season he’s been uneven and we’ve seen almost as much of him drinking and womanizing as we have of him in the courtroom, he’s no longer as objective or as much of a hardass, he’s been inconsistent, he isn’t a Benson bot yet but he’s shown signs of becoming one, I want Stone to be the objective prosecutor who isn’t afraid to challenge Benson or call SVU out if they behave unprofessionally. 

[TV Anonymous]

How could the brothers spend their mother's money if her whereabouts were not known? No investigation on her disappearance? 

[dttruman]

2 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

How could the brothers spend their mother's money if her whereabouts were not known? No investigation on her disappearance? 

I believe they were using her SS check and then when they needed more money, Ben wrote the book.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

On 12/12/2018 at 11:06 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Stone was awesome for all of last season, but this season he’s been uneven and we’ve seen almost as much of him drinking and womanizing as we have of him in the courtroom, he’s no longer as objective or as much of a hardass, he’s been inconsistent, he isn’t a Benson bot yet but he’s shown signs of becoming one, I want Stone to be the objective prosecutor who isn’t afraid to challenge Benson or call SVU out if they behave unprofessionally. 

 

Recently binged all four  seasons of Strike Back, where Phillip was co-lead with Sully Stapleton.

Really wish the SVU writers would let him bring some of fire/intensity he had as Michael Stonebridge.

Edited December 15, 2018 by MrsRafaelBarba

[TV Anonymous]

10 hours ago, dttruman said:

I believe they were using her SS check and then when they needed more money, Ben wrote the book.

Oh, okay. I thought the mother was rich - thus the big house - and they were using her inheritance. But if so, how did they get the inheritance?

[dttruman]

19 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

I thought the mother was rich - thus the big house - and they were using her inheritance. But if so, how did they get the inheritance?

I never even thought that she could have been rich, good point. As for getting the inheritance or even paying the property taxes for that matter. I just thought that might be getting too nitpicky, since it's kind of irrelevant.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎29‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 5:13 AM, WendyCR72 said:

This has to be one of the most unusual episode titles I've seen.

ETA: Good to see Judd Hirsch back in the franchise. I remember his L&O: CI episode as a racist newspaper publisher in "Pravda" in S3 eons ago and also liked him in the short-lived ABC show, Forever. (And, sadly, I am old enough to remember him from Taxi when I was little.)

Nothing sad about remembering Taxi, I do too. 

On ‎29‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 10:14 PM, dttruman said:

Anyway, the victim (or lady) was doing a book signing, then stepped out for a break and was killed by someone using a brick. According to Benson she was a transgender and she called it a hate crime immediately. It could have been a mugging gone wrong, but Benson assumes the worst.

In fairness she does say 'possible'?

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎30‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 3:52 AM, dttruman said:

Yes, but we still get Benson consoling a victim. Will someone tell me why Benson and Rollins are interrogating them?. I thought this was a Fin and Carisi case.

In fairness, Amanda needs something to do, Fin and Carisi are busy searching.