The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[tv echo]

Arrow Review: Level Two (Season 7 Episode 4)
November 6, 2018  Brianna Martinez
https://www.telltaletv.com/2018/11/arrow-review-level-two-season-7-episode-4/

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The psychological manipulation and torture that Oliver goes through is heartbreaking and is borderline uncomfortable to watch. From depriving him of food and water to that sensory deprivation/overload to the electroshock machine, it’s all painful to see Oliver subjected to it all.

Granted, he’s been through a lot over the last eleven years, but there’s something about this that feels worse than those things in the past, including his conditioning for the League and his week of torture with Adrian Chase.
*  *  *
Stephen Amell does a wonderful job conveying that pain, determination, and devastation throughout the hour, especially during that parallel life raft scene where it’s Oliver and William.
*  *  *
While I continue to have issues with Dinah and Diggle’s outlook on the whole situation as it continues to play out. They continue to disappoint and at times, their comments feel hypocritical. I get that there’s a different kind of internal struggle they are going through right now.
*  *  *
Of course, there’s no preparing for that final bomb to drop in the form of Dinah telling William and Roy that Felicity is dead. It’s hard to believe that would be the case which leads to questions like where is Oliver in all of this and is he with Felicity?
*  *  *
While the angst and misery and despair is engaging throughout the hour and continues to pique my interest in both the present and future storyline (for the most part), I only have one request for Arrow: don’t move into misery porn territory.

There’s a line to be drawn between good, reliable, and enthralling angst and misery porn.
*  *  *
So, if we’re meant to believe that Felicity is actually dead then where is Oliver? How did the flash forwards play out without a single mention of his name? What if the psychiatrist is The Demon? Any new guesses as to who the new Green Arrow is?

Edited November 7, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I have to admit, though, I am still concerned...

A Look Back at When TV Shows Promised Death
by LAUREN PIESTER | Tue., Nov. 6, 2018 4:14 PM
https://www.eonline.com/news/984429/a-look-back-at-when-tv-shows-promised-death

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We see you, Arrow, and we're not quit ready to mourn yet.

The CW superhero show ended its most recent episode with quite the bombshell: In the future (where portions of the season are taking place), Felicity Smoak (Emily Bett Rickards) is dead.

There's no specific reason for us not to believe the words of Dinah (Juliana Harkavy), and yet most fans immediately didn't. Obviously, to most fans, Felicity is not dead, even 20 years later in this mysterious future we know next to nothing else about. We don't even know if this future is going to become any sort of primary setting for the show, but we know enough to not believe anyone when they tell us a main character is dead. 

The problem is that this show and many others have claimed things like this before, riling up the viewers, getting press, only to then fake us out, let us down, or chicken out at the end. Arrow has even done this with Felicity before, and it's not even close to being alone, to the point where no promise of death is believed anymore. Oh, you think you're going to kill one of your biggest characters? As if. 

Edited November 7, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Is a major character about to die in the future on ‘Arrow’?
Stephen Anderson November 6, 2018
http://realitybox.co.uk/is-a-major-character-about-to-die-in-the-future-on-arrow/

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Is Felicity Smoak dead? That’s the big question fans are asking themselves following Monday night’s episode of Arrow.
*  *  *
That’s when Dinah drops the bombshell that Felicity is dead. Now, is Felicity really dead? We don’t know for sure yet but judging by the fact something truly goes wrong in the future with Oliver missing and William never seeing his parents again, it doesn’t look good.

Edited November 7, 2018 by tv echo

[Featherhat]

13 hours ago, tv echo said:

I have to admit, though, I am still concerned...

I completely get being concerned. I don't think it's out of the question that she'll be dead but I think it's unlikely at the moment. And they may hold off on a "surprising reveal" for a while on the FFs. And that's not to say something won't happen further down the FFs either. It's interesting that apart from the cliffhanger itself they haven't really done a huge amount of after ep teasing for it either way. 

[tv echo]

Arrow Episode Guide: Season 7, Episode 4 - Level 2
Starman   November 7, 2018
http://www.mygeekygeekyways.com/2018/11/arrow-episode-guide-season-7-episode-4.html

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Black Siren's talk about going bad because she lost her father and her Ollie doesn't quite work. She should have still had a mother when her Quentin died and we have no idea if there was a Sara on Earth 2 or not. Point being - Black Siren should have had at least one other loved one to stop her from going over the edge, as far as we know.
*  *  *
Trivia
Oliver reveals that the man his father killed on the life-raft to save Oliver's life was Robert Queen's bodyguard, Hackett. In Green Arrow: Year One, Hackett was the name of Oliver Queen's treacherous survival skills teacher and guide, who shared several adventures with Oliver before trying to leave him for dead in the South Seas. He was later revealed to be an employee of the drug lord China White, who had been using Oliver's bank accounts to launder drug money on the sly. Ironically, it was Hackett's teachings that enabled Oliver Queen to survive on the jungle island China White used as a base/poppy farm, giving him his first taste of heroism as he began to become The Green Arrow.

The Rubik's cube inside of Felicity's vault is also a holographic projector. In the original comics, technology based around Rubik's cubes were a favorite toy of The Calculator, whose Arrowverse equivalent is Felicity Smoak's father.

The movie showing at the Starling Palladium when Rene and Dinah show up looking for Jon Cortez and his crew is The Invincible Armor - a 1977 kung fu film famous for a line that seems an appropriate sentiment for Oliver Queen and most of Arrow's heroes - "I've made a vow not to kill, but it seems I must."

The canary emblem on the pin that Dinah gives Zoe is the Black Canary symbol used during the Gail Simone run of Birds of Prey.

The revelation that The Glades were sealed off from the rest of Star City and are now some kind of gated community for rich elites seems to borrow from two different storylines from the  Green Arrow comics. The first was One Year Later, in which a corrupt mayor of Star City had a wall built to separate The Glades from the rest of Star City following a super-villain attack that devastated the city, hoping to find private investors to gentrify the neighborhood. The second was The Rise of Star City, which was based around a fiendish banking group called The Ninth Circle turning Seattle into the first of their Star Cities - a municipality totally run by Randian capitalism, with no social services or public works save what privately-owned business were willing to invest in. The end result was a gated community in the middle of the city, with the working class forced out of the city and into the ghettos that sprung up on the outskirts of town.
*  *  *
The Bottom Line
A solid episode, despite Stephen Amell being largely wasted giving a "drunk" performance that doesn't hold the interest of his conflicted storyline from earlier episodes and Emily Bett Rickards barely being involved in things. The Dinah/Rene stuff is golden however and the future storyline is kicked into overdrive with some major reveals. Good stuff, all around.

Edited November 8, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Includes interview with EK...

DC Daily Ep.39: Grant Morrison on THE GREEN LANTERN. Plus, Echo Kellum and Nafessa Williams join us
Published on Nov 7, 2018, by DC

-- On what it's like being part of a superhero team and what does Curtis bring to Team Arrow, EK: "I think, uh, it's a privilege for him to be able to work on that team. Uh, Team Arrow has done a lot of great things for the denizens of Star City. And he definitely is a type of person who was somebody who was affected by what was going on and decided he wanted to take charge and get into the action of it. And Team Arrow actually embraced him and let him do that. And I think what he brings to the team is a lot of intelligence, a lot of dope tech, and a lot of humor. So, uh, I think those are some really important parts you want to have on a team."

-- On being part of such a diverse group of actors on The CW, EK: "You know, Joe Biden mentioned this on the stump a couple years ago, but like how Will & Grace actually changed people's perspective in actual real time, in reality. So it's real important to have that type of representation out there, so you can chip away at people's prejudices, and what they think or assume, the ignorance that they have, you know, in thinking someone's a certain way. But like you said, I think the biggest point is when people can look on TV and see you being truly authentic to that character and who they are and then take pride in that and say, 'I can be me and I'll be who I am.' That's the biggest thing, I think, the most important impact we can have on people in this world. And it's such a privilege and, like, a point of pride to be able to have any footprint, any little bitty part to play in that." They then talked about having diverse characters who are represented with layers and depth, and not just as two-dimensional characters.

Edited November 8, 2018 by tv echo

[KenyaJ]

Emily's Nerdist "Fangirling" interview. (It starts at 7:15) There aren't any spoilers, but I'm happy to hear how much she and Beth have been discussing Felicity's arc this season. 

Edited November 8, 2018 by KenyaJ

[tv echo]

^^^ Other source links for above Nerdist interview with EBR...
https://nerdist.com/fangirling-arrow-emily-bett-rickards-overcooked-2/
https://www.facebook.com/watchfangirling/videos/559602747819954/

-- EBR said that when she's typing on the computer as Felicity on Arrow, she's actually typing in her phone number or "I am Emily" or Felicity's dialogue lines.

-- EBR: "The writers this year have really taken our show and sort of redesigned it in a beautiful way. Beth Schwartz, our new showrunner, who's been with us from the beginning of Season 1, and, you know, climbed the ladder in the writers' room and in the office and has dedicated, you know, seven years to the show as well, has decided to take this awesome new, you know, flavor in a different direction of the show. And - and she really does care about Felicity, which I was always very, um, very grateful for and very excited about for this year, because it gave me something new to do, it gave Felicity something new to live for. And people change, and so our characters change. And the way - and the way we want to see the world go, hopefully, changes as well. For the good or for the better, we're not really sure. And, um, I've just been lucky enough to have that changes, so that she doesn't stay that stagnant."

-- On whether Beth Schwartz sat her down at the beginning of the season and told her about Felicity's arc this season, EBR: "Yeah. And, actually, for a couple years too, 'cause her and I have always, always talked through the years and sort of always talked about Felicity and the show and other things as well. And she did. She called me. We had like three or four talks before the season started. And kind of knowing, you know, where Felicity was starting, 'cause of the end of last season, like, where she was going to be. I think, too, it's interesting to like test your character. I mean, what would be the most detrimental part of your inner disposition to challenge? And I think that that's sort of where Beth led from, which was like, what would happen and if she decided to fall in a pattern she had never taken before?"

-- On what show she would want to cross over with, if she could pick any show in any universe, EBR: "Veronica Mars." She then talked about how big a fan she was of that show.

-- On playing the same role through most of her 20's and how it's shaped her coming of age, EBR said that it's one of those questions of whether the show's changed her or whether she's changed because the 20's are a "transformative time." EBR: "This show has been sort of - I don't know, like a - almost like college years for me. It's been super educational. It's been something that I always, you know, chose and wanted to do. And I've met my family along the way. These people that I've been working with for seven years are, you know, familial. They are such a huge part of my life. And I feel grateful and lucky and adventurous because of that."

Edited November 8, 2018 by tv echo

[SmallScreenDiva]

Has anybody from the show actually said Cassidy was brought back because of backlash? I know Cassidy has claimed that at cons but I can't remember if Guggenheim or anybody else has supported that claim. 

8 minutes ago, tv echo said:

-- On whether Beth Schwartz sat her down at the beginning of the season and told her about Felicity's arc this season, EBR: "Yeah. And, actually, for a couple years too, 'cause her and I have always, always talked through the years and sort of always talked about Felicity and the show and other things as well. And she did. She called me. We had like three or four talks before the season started. And kind of knowing, you know, where Felicity was starting, 'cause of the end of last season, like, where she was going to be. I think, too, it's interesting to like test your character. I mean, what would be the most detrimental part of your inner disposition to challenge? And I think that that's sort of where Beth led from, which was like, what would happen and if she decided to fall in a pattern she had never taken before?"

I had a feeling that this was the case. That Emily already had the conversation with Beth. I wish she still had a chance to talk to the other writers (maybe she did but since they gave a shoutout to everybody who dropped by and they didn't for Emily, I don't know), but I'm glad she and Beth had talked about Felicity and her future a lot. 

Oh and that's the second time I've heard Emily talk about her dad recently. She doesn't mention him often that I sort of briefly wondered if he was still in her life, just because she talks about her mom a lot. 

Edited November 8, 2018 by SmallScreenDiva

[tv echo]

28 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Has anybody from the show actually said Cassidy was brought back because of backlash? I know Cassidy has claimed that at cons but I can't remember if Guggenheim or anybody else has supported that claim. 

From MG's tumblr in 2017...

Quote

Quote

sambuccashotsandshoes asked:

With #NoLaurelNoArrow being a popular thing in the Arrow fandom, can you honestly say that it had no absolute influence on your decision to bring back Katie Cassidy where she rightfully belongs?

I can honestly say that, yes.

112 notes    Apr 26th, 2017

 

https://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/160038155329/with-nolaurelnoarrow-being-a-popular-thing-in-the#notes 

Edited November 8, 2018 by tv echo

[SmallScreenDiva]

2 minutes ago, tv echo said:

From MG's tumblr on April 26, 2017:

https://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/160038155329/with-nolaurelnoarrow-being-a-popular-thing-in-the#notes 

 

Thanks, @tv echo. So not only is there no confirmation but there's actually a denial. 

And I'm super-impressed by whatever archiving system you have. Man, that was quick!

Edited November 8, 2018 by SmallScreenDiva

[Primal Slayer]

4 hours ago, tv echo said:

Arrow Episode Guide: Season 7, Episode 4 - Level 2
Starman   November 7, 2018
http://www.mygeekygeekyways.com/2018/11/arrow-episode-guide-season-7-episode-4.html

Black Siren's talk about going bad because she lost her father and her Ollie doesn't quite work. She should have still had a mother when her Quentin died and we have no idea if there was a Sara on Earth 2 or not. Point being - Black Siren should have had at least one other loved one to stop her from going over the edge, as far as we know.

That's assuming that Dinah stuck around or was a loving parent. Dinah left after Sara's death on E1 and basically became estranged from her family. So even if Dinah/Sara doesn't automatically mean that they would be loving enough to talk Laurel off the edge when they could be dealing with their own darkness. 

 

53 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Thanks, @tv echo. So not only is there no confirmation but there's actually a denial. 

And I'm super-impressed by whatever archiving system you have. Man, that was quick!

If there is one thing MG does is deny until a certain point so I wouldn't expect him to admit to it if that were a reason. He still refuses to acknowledge how crappy they treated the character. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Just now, Primal Slayer said:

If there is one thing MG does is deny until a certain point so I wouldn't expect him to admit to it if that were a reason. He still refuses to acknowledge how crappy they treated the character. 

That’s the thing, though. They’ve admitted when they have made mistakes in the past. When they were surprised by audience reaction. And admitting that in this case would have been a way of making amends with LL fans. But he didn’t do that. His wording, IMO, supports the theory that she was forced back or forced her way back on the show. And contrary to the Tumblr poster’s claim, the hashtag wasn’t really that popular. Or popular enough to trend or tick the meter. Which has always been one of the problems with LL as a character. Not saying people don’t care. They do, she has fans, we know that. But not in enough numbers to matter to Arrow it seems.

[Primal Slayer]

25 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

That’s the thing, though. They’ve admitted when they have made mistakes in the past. When they were surprised by audience reaction. And admitting that in this case would have been a way of making amends with LL fans. But he didn’t do that. His wording, IMO, supports the theory that she was forced back or forced her way back on the show. And contrary to the Tumblr poster’s claim, the hashtag wasn’t really that popular. Or popular enough to trend or tick the meter. Which has always been one of the problems with LL as a character. Not saying people don’t care. They do, she has fans, we know that. But not in enough numbers to matter to Arrow it seems.

My memory may be incorrect but I do believe DR said that they were surprised by the backlash over Laurels death. And Wendy talking about her being a "fan favorite "

I just don't know what could happen between getting the ok to let her go only to being forced to bring her back full time. 

But I don't remember MG ever owning up to anything that had to LL.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Primal Slayer

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

My memory may be incorrect but I do believe DR said that they were surprised by the backlash over Laurels death. And Wendy talking about her being a "fan favorite "

But I just don't know what could happen between getting the ok to let her go only to being forced to bring her back full time. 

But it’s not even full time. It’s “series regular” with limited number of eps. I’m curious as to the why and how, too. Because 510 told me what these writers thought of the character and that’s not the stuff you write for somebody you expect to come back.

anyway, I didn’t mean to bring all this back up. I was just very curious if there was ever actual confirmation other than from Cassidy (and I could see why she would claim that) because i’ve Seen some posts making it sound like fact. 

[Primal Slayer]

It is definitely shady on behalf of the writers but I think since she isn't truly part of TA and maybe budget they dont need her to be in every episode. It's like with Paul Blackthorne where he wouldn't be in every episode. Though this year may be up from last season's 16.

[olicityfan25]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

From MG's tumblr in 2017...

https://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/post/160038155329/with-nolaurelnoarrow-being-a-popular-thing-in-the#notes 

This is hilarious. Did that hasttag even trend? LOL

[BkWurm1]

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 On what show she would want to cross over with, if she could pick any show in any universe, EBR: "Veronica Mars." She then talked about how big a fan she was of that show.

 

There always seems to be new reasons to love EBR.

[KenyaJ]

In TVLine's Burning Questions:

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Does knowing Green Arrow still hasn’t saved his city in 20 years make the show feel bleak?

[tv echo]

Superhero Insider: Supergirl, Arrow, and Legends of Tomorrow deliver major reveals
November 09, 2018 at 04:57 PM EST, by Shirley Li
https://ew.com/tv/2018/11/09/superhero-insider-supergirl-arrow-and-legends-of-tomorrow/

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Arrow
...
Arrow also put its title character in the backseat, but not because Stephen Amell is Broadway-bound. See, Oliver remains imprisoned, and he’s doing even worse than before, now that a Level Two therapist — a.k.a. Wannabe Hugo Strange, as EW’s Chancellor Agard calls him — is forcing him to talk about trauma and feelings and memories and (sigh) everything that’s supposed to presumably make him reassess his vigilante identity. Most of the action, therefore, involves the flash-forwards, which served up several major revelations this week: Roy and William find vigilante Dinah (with gray in her hair), meet adult Zoe (also a vigilante), and learn that Felicity is dead. (Or is she…?) These are all tantalizing developments, but I’m frustrated all the same: If the future Arrow is working toward is so bleak, why are we spending so much time in a present that’s bound to lead to failure? Or could it be that these flash-forwards are… [Oliver’s opening monologue voice] something else?

Edited November 10, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

TV Moments From This Week That We Can't Stop Talking About
Nora Dominick   November 9, 2018
https://www.buzzfeed.com/noradominick/tv-moments-of-week-11-9-18

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12. In Arrow, we learned more about the future when an older Dinah informed William that Felicity Smoak was (possibly) dead.

[tv echo]

DC TV Watch: Is 'Arrow' Killing Off an Original Favorite?
NOVEMBER 10, 2018 8:15am PT by Sydney Bucksbaum
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/arrow-felicity-flash-forward-death-explained-dc-tv-watch-1159649

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The big news: A new Canary takes flight while the flash forwards reveal that Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) is potentially dead in the future.

What this means: While an arson case and one of Ricardo Diaz's (Kirk Acevedo) Longbow Hunters kept most of the former Team Arrow busy this week, it was the flash forwards that took center stage with the biggest reveals yet. After Dinah (Juliana Harkavy) gifted Rene's (Rick Gonzalez) daughter with a canary pin in the present day storyline, the flash forwards paid off that foreshadowing by making the grown version of Zoe (Andrea Sixtos) a vigilante herself, part of a resistance group. It turns out that future Star City falls when The Glades rises, erecting a wall to keep people out and using the SCPD as hired guns. Something big happened between now and 20 years in the future to completely decimate every part of the city that isn't The Glades, which is ironic considering The Glades has always been the part of the city to suffer on this show. But apparently along the way, Felicity finally does bring her fated Smoak Tech empire to life ... and dies, according to the future Dinah. But is that actually true, or did Felicity fake her own death to put her mysterious plan in motion to bring William (Ben Lewis) and Roy (Colton Haynes) back to the city? Does she want her son and old best friend to take back Star City and bring it back to its former glory? This is one of the series' original characters (although not in the pilot, she made her debut in the second episode and never looked back) and losing her would be a huge moment for the series, for good or bad. Is Arrow actually going to pull the trigger, or is this all going to be a big fake out?

Edited November 11, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Hard Targets: 10 Perfectly Cast Arrowverse Characters (And 10 That Miss The Mark)
by Michael Gordon – on Nov 08, 2018 
https://www.cbr.com/arrowverse-good-and-bad-castings/

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The Arrowverse began life in 2012 with one show about a costumed vigilante fighting to clean up his city (with the aid of his bodyguard and a nerdgirl computer expert). In the ensuing six years, it has grown exponentially to include three more shows, two animated webseries and crossover events that have production budgets that would eclipse many Hollywood movies. It has been a true success story for DC Entertainment and for The CW, and shows no signs of slowing down. ...
*  *  *
19  MISS: LAUREL LANCE/BLACK CANARY...
We're going to lay the blame for this one at the feet of the Arrow writers as much as actress Katie Cassidy (Supernatural). Right from the very first season of Arrow, Laurel Lance was an easy character to dislike. A lawyer and love interest for Oliver Queen, she was constantly kept in the dark about his nighttime vigilante adventures, and when she was repositioned as an opposing force to him in season two she became even more annoying to viewers.

By the time she became the (inexplicably skilled) vigilante Black Canary in season three, viewers were already much more fond of her sister Sara Lance's version of the hero, so Laurel came off as a poor copy. Cassidy, for her part, was also never able to imbue Laurel with any real charisma or dynamism.

18  PERFECT: SARA LANCE/WHITE CANARY...
Speaking of Sara Lance, we had to include Caity Lotz' performance as Laurel's sister: the skilled superhero, bi ladykiller and field leader of the Legends. A character created specifically for Arrow, Sara was played by a different actress in the pilot. Believed to have perished, she then reappeared in the form of Lotz (Mad Men) in season two as the vigilante known as The Canary.

Sara had been trained by the League Of Assassins and was everything Laurel wasn't: cool, a formidable fighter and a true equal to Oliver Queen. Lotz had both dance and fight training prior to being cast and it showed in action scenes. Fans immediately loved the character and were ecstatic when she was included in Legends Of Tomorrow, using a new codename: White Canary.
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12  PERFECT: SLADE WILSON/DEATHSTROKE...
New Zealand-born actor Manu Bennett's casting as Slade Wilson in season one of Arrow was brilliant. He appeared in the Lian Yu island flashbacks as Oliver Queen's mentor and friend, but fans with any amount of DC Comics knowledge knew Wilson would become the villainous assassin Deathstroke at some point.

Bennett gave off a tough, no-nonsense aura as Slade, but he was also dignified. When Slade became the main villain of season two, he gave the Arrowverse its first genuinely classic adversary. His vengeful attack on Oliver and everyone he loved was exciting to watch and Bennett cut a physically imposing figure in the Deathstroke costume. Fans were therefore ecstatic when Slade made a big return in a major season six storyline.

11  MISS: RA'S AL GHUL ...
In the wake of a triumphant season two, Arrow started season three with lots of promise. Fans were excited that the show was going to tackle the iconic Batman villain Ra's Al Ghul and his League Of Assassins and the table was set for an awesome season. In the end, season three was generally pretty good, but it's impossible to deny that they dropped the ball by casting Matt Nable as Ra's.

He had all the proper accoutrements, including a palatial lair in Nanda Parbat and access to a life-rejuvenating Lazarus Pit, but Nable just faded into the background in most of his scenes. Showing a complete lack of screen presence, he simply couldn't command the correct amount of gravitas and failed to convey the quietly menacing undercurrent that Ra's should possess.
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9  MISS: CURTIS HOLT/MR TERRIFIC...
Arrow's version of Mr Terrific is Curtis Holt, a technological genius and inventor who we first meet working at Palmer Technologies under Felicity Smoak. He eventually creates his T-spheres and joins Team Arrow in their vigilante adventures. As the first openly gay superhero in network TV history, Curtis is an important character for LGBTQ representation.

Audiences met Curtis' husband Paul and watched as their marriage fell apart due to Curtis' vigilante activities. But, while the character is undoubtedly of historical importance, Echo Kellum's performance can leave a lot to be desired. A comedian by trade, Kellum's scenes too often rely on lame geeky humour and he feels lightweight, especially during dramatic and action-oriented scenes.
*  *  *
1  MISS: ROY HARPER/ARSENAL...
Colton Haynes' Roy Harper was a series regular during season's two and three of Arrow, having made a handful of introductory appearances in season one. A character with a storied history in the comics, Roy's treatment on the show was all over the place. Haynes isn't a bad actor; in fact, he was one of the best things about the first two seasons of Teen Wolf.

But he struggled to overcome the inconsistent writing which always seemed to put Roy's stories in fast forward, leaving the audience with narrative whiplash. He went from a street tough to a vigilante in training, then a brainwashed superpowered criminal to Oliver Queen's replacement far too quickly. His return in 2018 was handled better, so maybe Haynes can distinguish himself in the role this time.

Edited November 11, 2018 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

TVLine Quotes of the Week:

[tv echo]

Why Felicity Smoak Is So Important To The ‘Arrowverse’
Nov 11, 2018 by Sarah Cudlipp
https://theseriesregulars.com/felicity-smoak-is-so-important/

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She’s The Absolute Best Kind Of Awkward
We can’t count the number of times that Felicity has taken a normal conversation and made it completely awkward. Which means we really can’t count the number of times she’s taken a dark conversation and lightened the mood with her adorkable quips. It’s not always easy to see the bright side of most situations our favorite heroes have to deal with. Plus, who doesn’t absolutely love seeing characters that are usually growling and scowling crack an unexpected smile? No one can fight the power of Felicity Smoak’s faux pas!
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She May Not Wear A Mask But She’s A Hero In Her Own Right
Felicity can’t do parkour and she has a bit of difficulty with a salmon ladder. She is no ninja and she certainly isn’t a metahuman. But Felicity is something that’s so important! Perhaps more important than everything else. She’s the heart and soul. Felicity is the glue that holds the team together. The best interests of the team and those she loves is always what leads her decisions and we respect that more than we can say.
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Plus, she’s kind of a tech genius. A potentially scary one. Like, let’s just process the thought of what a villain Felicity would be if she decided to use her powers for evil. We’re shuddering just thinking about it. But luckily, we don’t ever have to worry about it because she has a heart and brain of gold. She proves episode after episode that you don’t have to have excellent fighting skills or superpowers to be a hero. 
*  *  *
Felicity Smoak Is An Inspiring Role Model
Felicity is smart, savvy, and inspirational. She’s quick with a smile and never backs down, even when she’s faced with seemingly impossible odds. That’s someone we will gladly stand beside. Felicity knows her own mind and she isn’t willing to change herself or her standards for anyone else. In the world we live in today, that’s something so important that needs to be seen, especially on television. 
*  *  *
No matter how many times she may get knocked down, Felicity always gets back up. While we wish her paralysis storyline had been further explored, we fully respect the fact that Felicity used it as a learning opportunity. She saw things from a new perspective and took something sad and horrible and changed it into something positive for others. Because one thing Felicity never lacks is hope. 

We Will Always Need Felicity Smoak
Felicity can be so many things and we couldn’t imagine the Arrowverse without her. She can be the voice of reason and the eyes of an operation. Felicity can be the undercover operator and she can be the listener for all the team’s problems. She can even be the swift kick in the ass that the members need. While it may seem like what Felicity does isn’t important, that couldn’t be farther than the truth. If the team doesn’t have a target or know where to find the target, they become the hunted instead of the hunters.
*  *  *
Felicity also holds many jobs, most of which don’t receive a lot of credit. She’s a mom to William, something that became extremely important after he lost Samantha. Sometimes she’s the only one William has. Felicity is the analyst, the tech support, the coder, the decryption expert, and the hacker. Without her, the team would have been lost so many times, emotionally and physically. And so would we. For many of us, she’s been the bright spot when this show is at it’s darkest points.
*  *  *
There Is A True Badass Under There
Felicity’s looks are very deceiving and we love that she sometimes uses that to her advantage. You would never look at her and assume she can have you bankrupt and arrested in minutes. Sometimes her power over technology can be far more terrorizing than the abilities of the rest of the team. You know what they say, knowledge is power. And Felicity Smoak has that in spades. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by tv echo

[KenyaJ]

I love that TSR wrote that article in response to everything that was going down on Twitter yesterday.

[tv echo]

There's also a voting poll on this page (Cisco is currently ahead of Felicity)...

Best Arrowverse tech support: Overwatch or Vibe?
By The Tylt   November 9, 2018
https://www.gulflive.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2018/11/best_arrowverse_tech_support_o.html

Quote

Amazing as they are on their own, the Flash and Green Arrow both would be lost without their teams. From the police insights of Joe West and military strategy know-how of John Diggle to the ingenuity of Caitlin Snow and Curtis Holt, both heroes rely on all the help they can get. But arguably the biggest assets each team has is in computer genius tech support in the form of Felicity Smoak (a.k.a. Overwatch) and Cisco Ramon (a.k.a. Vibe). But who's the best Arrowverse tech support?
*  *  *
Felicity and Cisco are much more than sidekicks or assistants. They're brilliant, creative, and fully realized characters (and more fun as TV characters than either were in the comics). Oh, and they're adorable. 

Both shows rely on them for quick wit as much as science. It's hard to choose, but who is your favorite?
*  *  *
When she joined Queen Consolidated, Felicity Smoak (portrayed by Emily Bett Rickards) put her hacktivist past behind her. Well, mostly. At least until she really needs to hack something. 

She's a fascinating combination of ethical strength (upon which Team Arrow frequently depends on) and moral flexibility when it comes to computer investigation. As Felicity, she's Oliver's wife and a loving stepmother to his son. As Overwatch, Team Arrow's go-to source of intel, she's a genius at getting around security systems and analyzing data. As the team's conscience, Felicity frequently lays the smack down when members get too hot-headed to think clearly. 
*  *  *
Always brilliant and always looking amazing.
*  *  *
She's the embodiment of determination.

Edited November 12, 2018 by tv echo

[Mary0360]

2 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

I love that TSR wrote that article in response to everything that was going down on Twitter yesterday.

And they got more likes and retweets. 

[KenyaJ]

Fangirlish also jumped into the fray.

[tv echo]

FYI...

[tv echo]

Arrow recap: Another familiar face makes a shocking return in 'The Demon'
CHANCELLOR AGARD  November 12, 2018 
https://ew.com/recap/arrow-season-7-episode-5/

Quote

So, the two stage a commotion in the Level Two mess hall, which of course results in them being carried through the blue door and strapped to Dr. Parker’s fun chairs. This time around, however, Oliver isn’t going to fall for Dr. Parker’s manipulation and says that he’s going to end his cycle of violence on his terms, not through some lobotomizing treatment. As was the case with Adrian Chase in season 5, there’s some nuance in the current situation. Yes, Oliver realizes that the life he led the past six years wasn’t a healthy one and hurt his family, but he knows that redemption lies in using all that he’s learned and all of that growth to fix his mistakes. “My name is Oliver Queen,” he defiantly declares in an awesome callback to the season 3 finale, which saw him do the same thing as he rejected Al Sah-Him, the name Ra’s al Ghul gave him when he “joined” the League. Remember what I said about it being fitting that Talia be here for this?
*  *  *
“The Demon” wasn’t without other interesting developments. Watching Felicity and Laurel work together continues to be enjoyable, especially once Laurel awkwardly asks Felicity out on a friend date for pizza. Furthermore, the episode also dug into how traumatized Curtis was from everything that went down last season. Although it felt like his undercover storyline was competing for space with the Slabside set storyline, I appreciated the fact that the show tried to take the time to dig into how Curtis has actually been adjusting to post Team Arrow life. Sure, he was struggling and scared of going back into the field, but once the mission is over, it seems as Mr. Terrific is back.

Edited November 13, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

ARROW SEASON 7, EPISODE 5: "THE DEMON" REVIEW
BY JESSE SCHEEDEN   12 NOV 2018
https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/11/13/arrow-season-7-episode-5-the-demon-review

Quote

Again, while hardly surprising to learn that Talia was the Demon all along, it is nice to see Lexa Doig back in the picture. She’s been conspicuously absent since the Season 5 finale, and her return has been long overdue. Doig brings a very effective blend of malice, charm and arrogance to her role. She also has a solid dynamic with Stephen Amell, which makes it a bit of a shame that Talia has appeared so comparatively little compared to her half-sister. The hope is that this episode has opened up the door for more from Talia, though there’s really no telling based on the open-ended sendoff Talia was given.
*  *  *
At the same time, Curtis’ character arc this week felt rushed and hollow. If the writers want to keep him at the emotional center of the show, why not lean into his lingering PTSD and depression? He’s sacrificed so much for his city and gotten so little in return. But rather than really dig into that, this episode just treated Curtis’ personal issues as something that can be easily swept away with one good pep talk from Diggle.

The Curtis subplot was still fun, if somewhat mishandled. The same can’t be said for the Felicity/Laurel/Dinah alliance. As is usually the case, Laurel is a frustrating member of the ensemble cast. It’s already hard to tolerate her in this current role given how poorly she was handled in Season 6. And now, the more the character settles into the life of her interdimensional doppelganger, the more she seems to be transforming into Earth-1 Laurel. At some point you have to wonder if there’s going to be a tangible difference between the two characters by the time this Season is finished.

The other problem here is that this whole subplot felt largely superfluous. Other than Felicity fretting about Ollie’s disappearance, what exactly did this alliance accomplish. They rifled through some boxes, only for Talia to eventually show up and deliver the smoking gun they needed. Little about this storyline did anything to advance the larger Season 7 narrative. It merely reinforced the idea that Arrow has more characters than it can truly support at the moment.

Edited November 13, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

OLIVER TAKES ON LEVEL 2 WITH TALIA AL GHUL, AS FELICITY AND LAUREL TEAM-UP IN THE LATEST ARROW
Trent Moore   Nov. 12, 2018
https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/oliver-takes-on-level-2-with-talia-al-ghul-as-felicity-and-laurel-team-up-in-the-latest

Quote

*Having Laurel, Felicity and Dinah team up this episode was a great use of the extended cast, and it’s exactly what they’ve
needed to humanize Earth-2 Laurel along the way. Yes, the fact that she’s trying to live a good life in honor of Quentin is
honorable, but we’re finally getting to see it in action here. 
*  *  *
*The fights this week owed some subtle love to Daredevil, with more than a few hallway fights thrown in for good measure. Oliver
and Talia take out what looks to be a respawn point of prison guards, showing off those League of Assassins moves.

Arrow Season 7 Episode 5 Review – ‘The Demon’
NOVEMBER 13, 2018 BY JESSIE ROBERTSON
https://www.flickeringmyth.com/2018/11/arrow-season-7-episode-5-review-the-demon/

Quote

– You may call me a real hater, but the only value I saw Talia bringing this week, was her mentioning the word “Gotham.”
*  *  *
– Slabside is just boring, honestly. Hold on, they can roam around Level 2? And Dr. Parker? Of course this prison comes
equipped with a nutso evil psychiatrist who’s got years and years of records of him doing evil shit to people and they’re buried in a
file room (I do love a good file room scene and this one’s not bad!). And every guard is just a low level thug. Nothing original here.
*  *  *
– Still not going in on the Felicity- Laurel friendship, or the fact Laurel is just a lawyer now! With no training!

Edited November 13, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

‘ARROW’ S7 Ep. 5 Review: “The Demon”
By Jon Barr   NOVEMBER 12, 2018
https://www.monkeysfightingrobots.co/arrow-s7-ep-5-review-the-demon/

Quote

ARROW’s “The Demon” suffers from a bit of a misnomer. The episode title implies that the focus will be on The Demon, who turns out to be Talia al Ghul. But the promise of Diaz’s prison leader only puts Oliver back in Level One – and at square one. This season of ARROW continues to suffer from a lack of focus when it comes to Inmate 4587.

It’s not that Oliver’s conflict in “The Demon” isn’t interesting. Dr. Jarrett Parker is an interesting one-off villain, and the Oliver-Talia guard fight is fun. However, ARROW has built up the reveal of The Demon as a potential game-changer, which it’s not. It gives Oliver no real insight, aside from knowing Talia’s alive again. It doesn’t advance his story, and lends no clues as to when things might change. “The Demon” fails both Oliver and The Demon, as neither shine through.
*  *  *
While the Demon reveal wasn’t particularly exciting, it was interesting to watch Team Felicity form. Again, this story doesn’t do much to further the season-long story, as they lose Silencer for most of the episode. That said, the formation of a new sort-of vigilante squad is interesting. The more we see Felicity dive into darkness, and the more folks she brings in, the more the grim future makes sense.
*  *  *
ARROW is still failing its titular hero. Mister Terrific is cool, but why does ARROW care more about him than the Green Arrow? What does Talia’s freedom actually do for anyone? The prison angle is hypothetically an interesting challenge, as Oliver faces a threat he literally can’t fight. But without any idea as to what his time behind bars will yield, it’s hard to root for him to escape. Besides, no offense to ARROW, but DAREDEVIL did the prison fight scene way better. What does ARROW have to offer?

Edited November 13, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Episode Guide: Season 7, Episode 5 - The Demon
Starman   November 12, 2018
http://www.mygeekygeekyways.com/2018/11/arrow-episode-guide-season-7-episode-5.html

Quote

How exactly is the PR nightmare at The Slab supposed to free Oliver? Oliver pled guilty to the charges against him and the corruption at the prison has no baring [sic] on his trial or sentence.
*  *  *
Lexa Doig and Stephen Amell both give power-house performances here and have tremendous chemistry together.
*  *  *
Great action sequence in the hallway to the morgue as Talia and Ollie escape.

[tv echo]

It must've really hurt this guy to give EBR some praise...

Arrow: “The Demon” Review
Taylor Cole  November 13, 2018
https://thenerdstash.com/arrow-demon-review/

Quote

Another strong arc this week comes from Felicity, Laurel, and Dinah. Felicity and Laurel make a surprisingly hilarious pair. The addition of Dinah into things could’ve ruined this dynamic. However, I came out of this episode wanting to see these women featured together again, maybe even as another version of the Arrowverse’s Birds of Prey.

Other than some questionable decisions in “The Longbow Hunters”, Felicity has had a strong arc this season. She’s becoming more one-dimensional in her hunt for Diaz. I haven’t been the world’s biggest fan of Emily Bett Rickards in the role but she actually shined here. She balanced the strong drama and desperation with her comedic moments well.

Edited November 13, 2018 by tv echo

[KenyaJ]

Arrow Season 7 Episode 5 Review: “The Demon”

Chris King   November 13, 2018

https://www.tvovermind.com/arrow-season-7-episode-5-review-the-demon/

Quote

“The Demon” doesn’t break any new ground for Arrow. In fact, much of this episode repeats major themes and even memorable lines that we’ve seen before on the show in seasons past. Talia’s reappearance brings Oliver’s Man vs. the Monster debate from Season 5 back to the forefront, and when the former Green Arrow battles against Dr. Parker and his goons, who repeatedly tell him that he’s nothing more than “Inmate 4587,” he responds with Oliver’s battle cry from the Season 3 finale, the same one that he uttered at Ra’s al Ghul when he insisted that he was Al Sah-Him: “My name is Oliver Queen!” In a way, a lot of this week’s Arrow plays like some of the show’s greatest hits (well, aside from that Diggle/Curtis storyline, which just features Curtis complaining for the umpteenth time), and after Season 6 lost so much focus on what makes Arrow entertaining on a week to week basis, I’m more happy to enjoy some thematic comfort food.

***

And Black Siren is not the only character who gets to show her vulnerable side in “The Demon,” as Felicity, who has been a hardened, determined force so far this season, reaches a breaking point of sorts in front of both Black Siren and Dinah. She opens up to the two of them, explaining how she was initially upset at Oliver’s decision to turn himself into Agent Watson but that she now blames herself for the possibility that he may be irrevocably changed by his experiences in Level Two. “I should have visited him more… I should have been able to prevent this… I thought that the worst thing that could happen was me losing my husband to prison— what if I lose him permanently?” Felicity says.

While I don’t agree with Felicity’s statement at all (Oliver’s desire to fight against Diaz and save his family are what led him down to Level Two, nothing else), the guilt that she is feeling makes sense on a character level. Despite their many differences, both she and Oliver have the unfortunate habit of carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders, and when something goes wrong, whether it’s small or big, they always end up blaming themselves. Given how much Felicity cares for Oliver and given how terrified she is of losing him, she is desperate for some type of reason to explain why this terrible situation is happening. Felicity blames herself because she believes that she is the only one who can fix it. She blames herself because she knows, as Oliver’s wife and William’s mother, she is responsible for her family. She blames herself, because, just like always, she is the person who is most dedicated to protecting Oliver Queen’s life. By blaming herself, Felicity controls the situation, and if she controls it, if she wields some type of power during this seemingly hopeless predicament, you can bet that she’ll find a way to save Oliver Queen. Because Oliver Queen might be Star City’s greatest hero, but Felicity Smoak is his.

Other thoughts:

• Season 7 really needs to work on redeeming and re-integrating John Diggle into the main story, because right now, he just feels wasted at ARGUS in side stories with Curtis. Having him not actively helping Felicity save Oliver, even if he’s doing it by following ARGUS’s rules and regulations, just feels wrong.

Ow, my heart.  ❤️

Edited November 13, 2018 by KenyaJ

[statsgirl]

10 hours ago, tv echo said:

ARROW SEASON 7, EPISODE 5: "THE DEMON" REVIEW
BY JESSE SCHEEDEN   12 NOV 2018
https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/11/13/arrow-season-7-episode-5-the-demon-review

At the same time, Curtis’ character arc this week felt rushed and hollow. If the writers want to keep him at the emotional center of the show, why not lean into his lingering PTSD and depression? He’s sacrificed so much for his city and gotten so little in return. But rather than really dig into that, this episode just treated Curtis’ personal issues as something that can be easily swept away with one good pep talk from Diggle.

Why????????

[olicityfan25]

LOL oh God Curtis is not the emotional center. How ridiculous.

[Mellowyellow]

Bahahahaha I thought it was Oliver they were talking about as I only read the bits TV Echo highlights!!!! I will admit I wondered why @statsgirl was a tad harsh on Oliver with her comment! 

[tennisgurl]

I mean, I do get pretty emotional about Curtis a lot. Of course, that emotion is anger...

[tv echo]

Quote

They make the perfect odd couple. Felicity is sunshine and roses while Bl*ck S*ren is a snarky (reformed?) murderer.  There are some similarities to Oliver and Felicity or Laurel and Tommy, which is probably one of the reasons I am enjoying it so much. Light meets dark. Funny meets serious.
*  *  *
The sass and banter is funny and honest.  Neither is worried about hurting the other’s feelings because they aren’t really friends. It allows the characters to say things to each other Felicity and our L*urel would never say. It also makes the development of whatever potential friendship they may have in the future feel natural.
*  *  *
Whereas with L*urel, I feel her friendship with Felicity was rushed and didn’t develop organically. We went from L*urel glowering and not speaking to Felicity to immediately “favor friends” inside of a single episode. 
*  *  *
It was also a little weird how they never talked about the Oliver shaped elephant in the room too, but whatever that’s all past.  None of this is a problem with Bl*ck S*ren and F*licity. In fact, all the things I asked for with L*urel L*nce I am actually getting with Bl*ck S*ren.
*  *  *
Listen, nobody is as shocked as me since I was loudly advocating for BS to remain evil. I still like her evil and will be fine if she regresses. However, if they are going to have a L*urel type character on this show then I want the writers to use her effectively. Thus far, they are with Bl*ck S*ren. It may all go to hell in a hand basket shortly, but for now leave me to my joy.
*  *  *
Dinah hems and haws about helping Felicity, and she pretty much has to beg, which ticks me off to no end. You are part of the reason Oliver is in prison, Dinah. MOVE YOUR ASS. If Felicity wants to access to the evidence room you should be making her a copy of the key so she can come and go as she pleases. #NewbiesStopPissingMeOff2018
*  *  *
Felicity can be mad at Oliver and still be madly in love with him. What Oliver did is no little thing. He made a massive and unilateral decision for their entire family without consulting Felicity. She has to live with the consequences, but had no say in her own life. 
*  *  *
I am trying to hang with you show, and I realize you are a fantasy drama, but this is not humanely possible. Also, I am taking issue with Diggle reading out Curtis’ credentials when just last week Felicity tipped her hat to her credentials. She mentions going to MIT and then next week we are listing Curtis’ ridiculous number of PhDs and six languages?!
*  *  *
It feels like a bizarre pissing contest and yet these writers want me to believe this character is not in competition with Felicity.
*  *  *
Arrow continues to glaze over Curtis’ role in Oliver ending up in prison, there’s been no apology and he refuses to help Felicity. Instead, they write an episode where Curtis is given all the storylines we’ve asked for Felicity. Then Curtis whines about how tough life is when the other characters he refuses to help are suffering more. This is not the way to win me over. USE THIS CHARACTER LESS. He needs to disappear from my TV screen for a long time or, God willing, permanently. The more this show shoves this character down my throat the more I dislike him and I have a sensitive gag reflex. 
*  *  *
I need Stan to be good. Can we just let Stan be good?
*  *  *
I don’t buy for a second Diaz took out a bunch of Bratva, but my larger concern is don’t hurt my Anatoly.

Edited November 14, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

‘ARROW’ 7×05 REVIEW: ‘THE DEMON’
Posted on November 13, 2018 By Alyssa Barbieri
http://fangirlish.com/arrow-7x05-review-the-demon/

Quote

Do you guys see that? There in the distance? It looks like a light. Like a light at the end of the tunnel that involves Oliver imprisonment and subsequent separation from his family.
*  *  *
Once Oliver and Talia had torn those horrific bracelets off, they made a run for it. And successfully fought their way through a slew of corrections officers. And again this show reminded us that Oliver doesn’t need a team to take on one or even a couple of baddies. He can do it himself. It’s nice to be reminded of that. Since the only way out of Slabside is through the morgue (ha haha ha), they make their way there poised for escape. Could it be this is Oliver’s way out? Nope.
*  *  *
Look, I’ll be the first to point out several things. 1) Felicity Smoak is a badass who is too good for anyone, including Oliver, on this show; 2) Black Siren, Laurel, from Earth 2 is not the Laurel Lance she’s pretending to be; 3) I’m not a fan of forced friendships. But at the same time, I’m not going to lie. And the simple fact of the matter is that I’m kinda, actually, mildly enjoying these Felicity/Laurel dynamics.

Felicity and Laurel’s relationship works — in a weird, awkward, endearing way. Their chemistry works, and that’s partly based on the two actors. But that doesn’t erase the fact that this partnership began because Felicity had literally no one else to go to for help in catching Diaz, including her actual so-called “friends.” Or that Black Siren tried to kill her. Or that Black Siren is an actual murderer. Or that Black Siren partnered with the very man they’re now trying to take down.
*  *  *
But just as I can’t ignore the person Laurel of Earth 2  is/was — a murderer that partnered with Diaz and at one point tried to kill Felicity — I can’t ignore that Laurel has been the one person thus far that has actually helped Felicity. Even when she didn’t want to, she helped her. Be it for selfish purposes or what not, Laurel is the one person helping Felicity.

Now, that doesn’t excuse her resume. Being a murderer, pretending to be someone she’s not. But I think we’ve seen that on Arrow anyone is capable of redemption — if they want it. And if Arrow is so keen on redeeming Black Siren, they’re going to need to make her work for it. That doesn’t mean just one favor to Felicity. Or working on “empathy” for one episode. I’m talking consistent, progressive work towards becoming a better version of herself. It’s attainable, it’s just not instantaneous.

I’m assuming that this is the arc for Black Siren this season. Redemption. For Quentin (the man that wasn’t her father but this show has acted like he was at times.) For herself. And I’d actually like to see that. But like with Oliver, we’ve seen that redemption isn’t an episode or several or even a season. It’s a work in progress with setbacks always looming.
*  *  *
While we might not have a visual indication like we do with Oliver and his photograph in prison, everything Felicity is doing is for her family. She’s fighting for them. Every. Episode. Her focus is on taking down Ricardo Diaz and, quite frankly, there’s nothing that’s going to stop her. Even now as Oliver is aware that Felicity is actively pursuing Diaz. Not that he can really do anything about it. But even if he could, she wouldn’t stop. This is her fight more than anyone’s right now. And she deserves the opportunity to handle it.

To be fair, Felicity went to Diggle for help first. Then Dinah and Curtis. And even Rene helped for a little there. And Dinah has helped a tad. But it’s Laurel that’s actually been the biggest help. SHOCKING, I know. But just as Felicity is entrusting Laurel’s help in taking down Diaz — and Oliver’s situation, this episode — I find myself opening up to the idea. Because Felicity has this under control. And, basically, Felicity has been left to catch Diaz ALONE. AND even Felicity is aware that she needs some help in certain regards. So the fact that Laurel has been an asset more than a nuisance (which is more than some others can say) is actually working for this storyline.

Felicity Smoak-Queen will stop at nothing to protect her family. Always has, always will. It’s what makes her a hero among costumed or super-powered heroes. It’s that hero’s spirit she possesses that makes her presence and her storyline and her fight all the more important.
*  *  *
Arrow has no idea what they’re doing with Curtis. Or Dinah. Or Rene, who no one missed in this episode. And the fact that they’re choosing to force Curtis and Dinah (and sometimes Rene) over an established character like Diggle, who has a ton of potential to be explored, is so freaking frustrating.

Edited November 14, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

TV Review: ‘Arrow: The Demon’ (Season 7, Episode 5)
BY DARRYL JASPER   NOVEMBER 13, 2018
http://sciencefiction.com/2018/11/13/arrow-review-demon/

Quote

Combat in Arrow has always been hit-and-miss. Unfortunately, the action scenes this season have been strongly on the ‘miss’ portion of that equation. Oliver and Talia’s gauntlet through a squad of riot gear-wearing prison guards was worthy of the well-known hallway fight scenes made popular by The Raid and Daredevil. There’s a fluidity to the choreography that has been missing from previous fights. After wading through the opposition, Oliver pulls a Barry Allen; choosing to stay in prison instead of marking himself as a fugitive. It’s both noble and practical and, thanks to Talia getting the information of Level Two to Felicity, will end up being the right thing to do.
*  *  *
Outside of Slabside, Felicity’s partnership with Laurel continues to grow. The Earth-2 Black Siren is still inching her way towards redemption, much of it to honor Quentin. A bit more on the fantastical side is her crash course in the practice of law. Still, these two do work well together and with Dinah sometimes being wheeled in as the third gun, Arrow’s quotient of bad-ass women to men ratio is about as even as a show can be.
*  *  *
There are some great moments in “The Demon”. The chemistry between several sets of characters, meaningful dialogue showcasing growth of our heroes, as well as some cheeky references (Talia mentioning she “ran afoul of an old foe in Gotham”) give strength (and hope) that Season Seven can, and will, continue to get better.

[tv echo]

Arrow, ‘The Demon’: Stories Merge Toward Springing Ollie from Prison
BY CRAIG WACK · NOVEMBER 13, 2018
http://oohlo.com/2018/11/13/arrow-the-demon-stories-merge-toward-springing-ollie-from-prison/

Quote

What about the action: Arrow channeled its inner Daredevil with a couple of impressive hallway fights against riot-geared guards. Talia and Ollie roughed up those dudes good. It was also satisfying to see the one-punch knockout of the latest jerkwad guard to make Ollie’s life hell. Oliver had the chance to escape with Talia, but decided against it, because doing so would ruin any opportunity of truly being a free man again. He covers for her escape, and is shocked when he’s led back to Level 1 (thanks to the legal maneuvering by Felicity, Laurel and Dinah).

What’s next: Not-lawyer, not-Laurel tries to spring Ollie on a technicality (just in time to save Anatoly’s bacon from Diaz).
*  *  *
Last impressions:  Still not a fan of the Felicity-Laurel team-up, only because the show is trying its hardest to redeem an irredeemable character. I’m curious to where the ARGUS story goes; my guess is all roads lead to Diaz, but there’s always hope this is an introduction to whatever the post-Diaz story is. The action was dialed up a notch compared to recent episodes, and gave the hour a slightly above average feel, despite the reams of exposition the actors had to wade through this week.

Edited November 14, 2018 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

Quote

 Oliver pulls a Barry Allen; choosing to stay in prison instead of marking himself as a fugitive. It’s both noble and practical and, thanks to Talia getting the information of Level Two to Felicity, will end up being the right thing to do.
*  *  *

Of course Felicity proabably would have preferred living life as a fugitive and kind of had said that before but hey, we are close to him getting absurdly lucky and getting out so I'll try not to harp on it too much more.  

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Outside of Slabside, Felicity’s partnership with Laurel continues to grow. The Earth-2 Black Siren is still inching her way towards redemption, much of it to honor Quentin. A bit more on the fantastical side is her crash course in the practice of law. Still, these two do work well together and with Dinah sometimes being wheeled in as the third gun, Arrow’s quotient of bad-ass women to men ratio is about as even as a show can be

 

I don't know if the author is male or female, but no, 3 women to potentially 4 men (once Oliver is out) is NOT as even as the show can go  They could and I hope will eventually go totally even and heck, why not take it again that one step more and allow for more awesome women than men?  Lets' not put limits on this idea of what an action show can have genderwise in it's casting ratios.   

Edited November 14, 2018 by BkWurm1

[bijoux]

I really like Chris King's review, but this typo made me laugh. 

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Felicity, who has been a hardened, determined force so far this season, reaches a breaking point of sorts in front of both Black Siren and Dinah. She opens up to the two of them, explaining how she was initially upset at Oliver’s decision to turn himself into Agent Watson but that she now blames herself for the possibility that he may be irrevocably changed by his experiences in Level Two. 

That would have been a very different storyline. ?

[tv echo]

Off-Target: 20 Huge Changes The Arrowverse Made That Annoy Only The Realest DC Comics Fans
by Michael Gordon – on Nov 13, 2018 
https://www.cbr.com/arrowverse-changes-dc-fans/

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20  FELICITY SMOAK IS DIFFERENT ...
If you were a fan of The Fury Of Firestorm comics in the '80s, you might remember Felicity Smoak as the manager of a computer software firm that first opposed Firestorm, but then wound up becoming Ronnie Raymond's stepmother. Obviously, this character is nothing at all like the Felicity character introduced in season one of Arrow, who was effectively a cute geek girl moulded onto the framework of Barbara Gordon's comic book role as Oracle, Batman's tech genius/computer expert/eyes and ears when on field missions.

This huge change might have annoyed some diehard fans, but to be honest the TV Felicity was much better and eventually was incorporated into the comics during The New 52 era in an incarnation much closer to the show.

19  SLADE WILSON'S BACKSTORY ...
One of the most popular villains/antiheroes in the DCU, Deathstroke was first introduced as an adversary of the Teen Titans, but over the years has also been an enemy of Batman and Green Arrow. In the comics, Slade Wilson was a soldier chosen by the army for an experimental procedure to imbue him with enhanced physical powers.

Before this, though, he had already mastered every form of combat and was adept at guerrilla warfare. He then became a mercenary for hire, known for having a personal code of honor. In Arrow, Slade was an Australian Secret Service agent marooned on the island Lian Yu with Oliver Queen. He became Oliver's mentor, training him to fight, but he later went insane after taking the "mirakuru" super soldier serum.

18  SARA LANCE WASN'T THE FIRST BLACK CANARY ...
Arrow's treatment of the Black Canary character has been, to put it mildly, all over the place. But then, her comic book history is a bit messy too. In the post-Crisis On Infinite Earths continuity, Black Canary is Dinah Laurel Lance, and she inherited the role from her mother Dinah Drake Lance.

Fans have now known Canary as Dinah for over 30 years. Arrow decided to create a brand new character, Sara Lance, to function as the Canary initially but after she perished, the mantle was taken up by her sister Laurel, a lawyer with no fight training who audiences already disliked. Sara then came back to life and now goes by White Canary and is the leader of the Legends. All of this might anger some fans, but we let it slide because Sara Lance is a totaly great character!

17  STARLING CITY INSTEAD OF STAR CITY ...
One of the most arbitrary changes made by the Arrow producers was their decision to call Oliver Queen's hometown 'Starling City' instead of 'Star City', which has traditionally been Green Arrow's stomping ground. Executive Marc Guggenheim explained that, due to their desire to keep it a grounded street-level show, they felt the name Star City would have sounded too 'science fiction-y'.

Eventually, as the Arrowverse grew and the shows became populated with a host of superpowered characters, the city was rebranded Star City in the hope of distancing itself from the attacks by Malcolm Merlyn and Slade Wilson in seasons one and two. Which is all an overly complicated way of fixing something that shouldn't have been changed to begin with!

16  RA'S AL GHUL IS A MANTLE ...
The Arrowverse version of Ra's Al Ghul was very faithful to the comics, albeit with one massive difference. He led the League Of Assassins, sustained himself with a Lazarus Pit, lived in Nanda Parbat and had a daughter named Nyssa. So far, so good. But the deviation that angered some fans was the fact that the show portrayed 'Ra's Al Ghul' as a moniker passed down to successors, as opposed to Ra's himself being a 600-year-old immortal man.

After challenging Ra's to a trial by combat, Oliver Queen was seemingly ended but survived. This lead Ra's to believe Oliver was destined to become the new Ra's, as he survived his blade. Oliver refused the mantle and Ra's then waged war on Starling City and mortally wounded Thea to pressure him into taking the title.
*  *  *
10  CURTIS HOLT ...
The modern age version of Mister Terrific is Michael Holt: the third smartest man in the world, a gold medal-winning Olympic decathlete and a self-made multi-millionaire. Oh, and someone who possesses 14 PhDs in topics like engineering, mathematics, law and physics. To be fair, faithfully translating that character 100% to the small screen might have stretched real-life credulity, so the Arrowverse was maybe right to alter him somewhat, but many observers feel their version (Curtis Holt) has been diminished too much.

While he has been very important for LGBTQ representation (as Curtis is portrayed as a happily married gay man), his role as a tech genius inspired by Green Arrow to become a vigilante hasn't been overly compelling.

9  THEA QUEEN ...
The Arrowverse has a penchant for mixing and matching comic book characters in their shows, and Thea Queen's superheroic Speedy identity is another example of that. Thea doesn't exist in the comics -- Speedy was Roy Harper's identity when he was Green Arrow's teenage sidekick. Roy became an important character in Arrow as well, but never went by Speedy, instead being known as Arsenal and Red Arrow (both genuine comic book codenames Roy has also used).

His addiction story from the classic '70s Green Lantern/Green Arrow 'Snowbirds Don't Fly' storyarc was transposed onto Thea for the show. There was also a second Speedy in the comics, Mia Dearden, who had a tragic backstory of abuse and prostitution before becoming a vigilante.

Edited November 14, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Review: The Demon (Season 7 Episode 5)
November 14, 2018Brianna Martinez
https://www.telltaletv.com/2018/11/arrow-review-the-demon-season-7-episode-5/

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With Talia and Oliver teaming up to find information about Dr. Parker, the Slabside arc is elevated to a new level that is even able to offer a bit of hope and a hint of an end in sight for Oliver’s time on the inside.

The hour also shows off that, again, Oliver most definitely has the ability to take down multiple people at a time and that he is just as tactically capable of pulling something like their plan off.
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It’s interesting that with everything that Oliver goes through at Slabside, he’s still motivated by this need to help others—in this case, it’s the Slabside inmates.
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But with even that sense of obligation to help these people, he exhibits some substantial growth, and it shines in moments like his final scene with Dr. Parker as he and Talia take down the doctor.
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While Oliver works with Talia on the inside, Felicity continues her mission with Black Siren on the outside with an assist from Dinah. It’s still a little strange to see the woman who spent last season committed to killing these people working with Felicity and Dinah.
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It’s so refreshing to hear Felicity work through her emotions about Oliver being stuck in some undocumented sub-level of the prison and still being upset about his choice to go to Slabside.

It makes sense that she would feel both the anger and the guilt considering what’s happening, and it’s fantastic that we get to see these emotions explicitly talked about and not just implied.
*  *  *
It’s disappointing to see Diggle lend his support for Curtis and offering that pep talk, even going back and referring to his time on the time when he couldn’t also do the same for Oliver and Felicity. I’m gonna need some solid explanations.

Edited November 15, 2018 by tv echo

[KenyaJ]

Emily was named to TV Time's 2018's Top Talent Under 30

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18. Emily Bett Rickards, 27

The first character on this list who wasn't a teen when we met her is Felicity Smoak, who was originally just a one-off tech expert helping out Arrow hero Oliver Queen but (spoiler alert!) eventually married him.

I think she's one of the only people on the list who's younger than the character she plays.