The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[tv echo]

INTERVIEW: Kevin Alejandro On Lucifer, Arrow & Making The Leap To Directing
By Gabriel Ricard  On Jan 23, 2018
https://culturedvultures.com/interview-kevin-alejandro-lucifer/

Quote

Well, you’re not just getting attention from Lucifer. These days, you’re certainly known for Lucifer, I also know a lot of people who really enjoy your work as Sebastian/Brother Blood on Arrow. Are you a comic book fan at all? What attracted you to the character?
You know, I wasn’t as educated as much in the comic book world, beyond Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, the ones I grew up with. I did a show with Greg Berlanti called Golden Boy, right before Arrow came on. We did one season of that, and it was myself, Theo James, Chi McBride, Holt McCallany, and Bonnie Somerville. We did this great show, and formed sort of a trusting work relationship with Greg. Right after the show was over, he asked me about this character they were introducing on Arrow, and if I would be interested. I was like “Heck yeah, I’d be interested!”
*  *  *
But then, as soon as I said yes, the nerves came in. Now, I’m not just creating a character. I have to stay true to what has already been established in this comic book world, and be highly judged by the people who delve into that comic book world. Their senses are heightened, when someone comes on to play a character they like or dislike. It’s relieving for me to hear you say the character has been well accepted. I’ve been receiving a lot of positive feedback on that character.

And I loved it. I loved every moment of it.

I would actually go so far as to say that Detective Dan and Sebastian have some similarities. They both seem to be pretty committed to doing the right thing, even if their concept of that can, or is, rather warped. Do you feel any similarities between these characters, or even significant differences?
Absolutely, man. It’s exactly what you said. Sebastian Blood is blinded by his sense of what’s right and wrong. But both men make their decisions from what comes from their heart, so that’s definitely a similarity between them. For me, and this is obviously just my opinion, but the only truth that comes from a character comes from within you as a human being. That’s the truth that you bring as an actor to each character, and then you build upon that for characteristics of who this other person is that you’re playing.

For me, in order to attach anything to a character, I have to bring some sort of truth from within myself. I think with a lot of my characters you’ll see a truth within myself that resonates with each character. It’s the characteristics then that set them apart. I think if you watch a lot of my things, you’ll see a little bit of my qualities in each of my characters. I think that’s why you notice some of those similarities in my characters.

Edited January 23, 2018 by tv echo

[Hiveminder]

22 hours ago, tv echo said:

 

-- Craig compared Oliver's reaction to the newbies' announcement that they were going to go out on their own to an old Kevin Hart stand-up routine, saying, "whenever he got mad at his mom, he threatened to run away and, like, pack one toy in a bag and be like, 'you see, I'm going to leave,' and, you know, his mom was like, 'yeah, whatever.'" So that was like Oliver's calm reaction, which was like: "Okay, pack your toy, do your thing. I know that eventually you will be back." If the newbies want to go on their own against Cayden James, the Russian mob, the Diaz crime organization, and Vigilante, then okay, good luck. 

He really was like a parent saying, “Ok, you idiot child, go do this incredibly dumb thing. See how that works out for you.”

 

15 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Is she really? I don't hate her, in fact I like her sass. I never viewed her as a villain, an antagonist sure but, so was S1 Lance and I didn't hate him either.

Lance had a reason to be cranky though. We have no idea why Watson is such a jerk. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

17 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Is she really? I don't hate her, in fact I like her sass. I never viewed her as a villain, an antagonist sure but, so was S1 Lance and I didn't hate him either.

Yeah, I don't hate her either, I wish we'd see more of her. I also wish they'd make her a smart investigator but the writers are dumb so that's impossible. I wish Arrow would provide the reason she's going hard after Oliver and his team but the show has never been good at providing motivations early on. With S1 Lance, the audience knew right away the source of his anger at Oliver. 

[tv echo]

EBR also talked about running into Janina Gavinkar and Tom Felton at Slamdance Film Festival, the Oscar nom for Saoirse Ronan, and her current musical obsession...

INTERVIEW: FUNNY STORY’S EMILY BETT RICKARDS
Charles Trapunski   January 23, 2018
http://brieftake.com/interview-funny-story-emily-bett-rickards/ 

Edited January 24, 2018 by tv echo

[Trisha]

The headline is total clickbait but I actually kind of agree with this article; wrapping Arrow up in seven seasons wouldn’t be the worst idea:

https://screenrant.com/cw-should-cancel-arrow/

Quote

The seventh season provides the perfect vehicle to wrap things up, as well. Season 6’s ensemble of villains and his recent issues with the team seem to be guiding Oliver toward the long-overdue realization that he cannot continue to try and be the biggest hero in Star City; it’s time to pass the torch. Season 7 could be a perfect farewell to Arrow, as Oliver and Felicity get their happy ending, as the other heroes of the city take their rightful places out of the shadow of the Green Arrow, and the lessons that Oliver has learned are cemented as he says goodbye.

[Mellowyellow]

Oh I am so torn about whether I want Arrow to continue. On one had I love OTA and would love it if they all signed up for another 3 years so I can watch an episode per week and see the characters onscreen.

On the other hand I totally don't trust the writers, CW, DC, don't trust that all my favourite actors will renew their contracts so I don't want to watch the show without a member of OTA or for anyone to die!!!!!!

The longer the show goes on, the greater the chances they have of screwing Olicity and OTA up! Part of me wants to end in S7 with a lovely Happily Ever After so that nothing can interfere with our happy ending canon.

That said I could and would actually keep watching the show if nothing permanently bad ever happened to OTA or their relationships! 

[ladylaw99]

I would prefer the show move away from the CW, get better writers, better budget and be the show it should have always been.

[Featherhat]

I'd be ok with it ending after S7. It feels a bit like wrapping up at the moment. But I've said that before and a show has gone another few years, I guess as long as it's profitable they'll want to continue even if some of the cast don't re sign. I think that's what NTA are about, seeing if they can carry it on if SA leaves or to use as leverage in negotiations. I thought that was why WD was being pushed so much or partly why RG got so annoyed with people always wanting to talk about Felicity. An actual or pseudo WD and pack spin off or  DD doing a BOP. 

I don't think there's any chance of it leaving the CW unless they cancel it and DC thinks they can get a few more seasons on their new streaming services  and even then I think that would be unlikely and wouldn't lead to better writers IMO

Edited January 25, 2018 by Featherhat
ETA CW response.

[tv echo]

I'm also torn about whether or not I want Arrow to end after S7. The longer the show lasts, the more opportunity there is for the writers to mess up the lives of my fave characters.

Btw, it's hard to take that ScreenRant article seriously when the writer doesn't even know that Oliver & Felicity are already married.

Edited January 25, 2018 by tv echo

[SmallScreenDiva]

Despite the clickbait title, that article could have worked if the writer had offered actual reasons why Arrow should close shop — she had a point about the repetitive stories — but it read more complaining than a well-thought-out essay, plus she got details wrong and I just can't with writers who do that. Don't they have editors? Maybe she wrote it months ago but it should have been updated, jeez.

Why are these "antis" writers so bad at writing? There's a Spoiler TV article titled "Apology from Felicity Smoak" still harping about the crossover wedding that read like a first draft that should have never seen the light of day. 

[statsgirl]

16 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Why are these "antis" writers so bad at writing? There's a Spoiler TV article titled "Apology from Felicity Smoak" still harping about the crossover wedding that read like a first draft that should have never seen the light of day. 

I suspect it's because good, thoughtful writers see the positives in Felicity and Olicity. Superficial writers grab on to things like the wedding for the high fives from people who are similar to them.

I don't want to lose Arrow and this community but I'm hard pressed to find shows that have gone on for longer than seven seasons that aren't a procedural like NCIS or reinvented the cast like ER. More usual is shows like Castle and Major Crimes that had a last season that made me not want to rewatch the previous seasons.

[Primal Slayer]

I think 7 seasons is good but I think the ideal thing would be to spin off a character. Obviously I want my Birds of Prey but someone like Diggle would be a good candidate for an Argus spin off.

[Guest]

As someone who thinks pretty much all shows should have fewer seasons than they actually have (5-7 seasons is the perfect amount, IMO), personally I think Arrow should end soon. It's not really Arrow specific, I just think most writers tend to mess everything up after a while because they've ran out of good story. And I do think Arrow has become repetitive over the years. 

Of course there is, possibly, a way round that by cutting their episode count in half. It's likely there would be a massive improvement in episodes and the general season arc as a whole if they didn't have a ton of filler around mid-season. Just IMO.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Guest

[SmallScreenDiva]

4 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Of course there is, possibly, a way round that by cutting their episode count in half. It's likely there would be a massive improvement in episodes if they didn't have a ton of filler around mid-season. Just IMO.

I don't think it's the number of episodes that's the problem in general because even shows like Stranger Things or Daredevil struggle with what feel like filler eps even with 10-13 episodes. It's really the writing. Shows have to learn how to pace their stories. Arrow hasn't been able to do that since S1. Maybe cut up the season in chunks? Split it in half? Have short, confined arcs? 

[Featherhat]

2 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Despite the clickbait title, that article could have worked if the writer had offered actual reasons why Arrow should close shop — she had a point about the repetitive stories — but it read more complaining than a well-thought-out essay, plus she got details wrong and I just can't with writers who do that. Don't they have editors? Maybe she wrote it months ago but it should have been updated, jeez.

Why are these "antis" writers so bad at writing? There's a Spoiler TV article titled "Apology from Felicity Smoak" still harping about the crossover wedding that read like a first draft that should have never seen the light of day. 

Oh I hated that article. Yeah Felicity was the rudest person of the crossover and she should beg forgiveness, right. I wouldn't want The Flash writers to pen such a letter ( and its unlikely EBR is going back to the Flash this season to deliver it in person) and The Arrow writers have never given a shit. 

I'd have way preferred it to go down differently but it's over and both couples have other things to worry about. It definitely wasn't her best timing but people still resenting it would probably have disliked a double wedding even if she'd waited 30 seconds and/or Iris had asked them to join her and Barry. 

Edited January 25, 2018 by Featherhat

[statsgirl]

Sometimes the problem is the network (e.g. cancelling Major Crimes so the creator wanted to go out with a bang) and sometimes it's a new show runner (Castle). Sometimes it's a recast (Kate on Jack Taylor).  I'm just thankful that showrunners are getting over their unsubstantiated fear that if they put the OTP together, the show will fall apart.

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

I think 7 seasons is good but I think the ideal thing would be to spin off a character. Obviously I want my Birds of Prey but someone like Diggle would be a good candidate for an Argus spin off.

I like the idea of an ARGUS spin-off.  Shows where the "heroes" are in the grey area are popular now and I'd loved to see Lyla and Diggle anchor that show.  Good actors, good optices with a mixed race couple.

[lemotomato]

2 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Why are these "antis" writers so bad at writing? There's a Spoiler TV article titled "Apology from Felicity Smoak" still harping about the crossover wedding that read like a first draft that should have never seen the light of day.

Arrogance. People who think their opinion is the only correct one don't bother with stuff like having an editor look at their writing. Or fact checking, or crafting a convincing argument. 

[Guest]

Wait. What's this about an apology from Felicity???? Or do I not want to know? 

[lemotomato]

8 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Wait. What's this about an apology from Felicity???? Or do I not want to know? 

It's someone from spoilerTV writing an apology letter from "Felicity's" POV, detailing all socially awkward things she's done to "explain" why she interrupted the wedding. And in the end, "Felicity" begs people to stop hating her. And she signs it "Felicity Smoak-Queen". It's a slam piece, not just about the wedding, but on Felicity in general.

Edited January 25, 2018 by lemotomato

[Morrigan2575]

Written by a WA shipper who works for SpoilerTV. Most of the Arrow fans at that site blasted the site and the author, including people who don't like Felicity.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

It's someone from spoilerTV writing an apology letter from "Felicity's" POV, detailing all socially awkward things she's done to "explain" why she interrupted the wedding. And in the end, "Felicity" begs people to stop hating her. And she signs it "Felicity Smoak-Queen". It's a slam piece, not just about the wedding, but on Felicity in general.

OMG I'm so glad I missed that garbage. I didn't realize SpoilerTV was that kind of site. So any random has a platform now? Yikes. 

[Morrigan2575]

53 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

OMG I'm so glad I missed that garbage. I didn't realize SpoilerTV was that kind of site. So any random has a platform now? Yikes. 

Supposedly it's a reward for their writers, allowing them to do these "creative" pieces. 

[lemotomato]

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Supposedly it's a reward for their writers, allowing them to do these "creative" pieces. 

I think it's sad that the author took an opportunity like that to write a hate piece instead of something promoting her ship. 

[Trisha]

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

I'm also torn about whether or not I want Arrow to end after S7. The longer the show lasts, the more opportunity there is for the writers to mess up the lives of my fave characters.

Btw, it's hard to take that ScreenRant article seriously when the writer doesn't even know that Oliver & Felicity are already married.

Yeah, that's where I'm at too. I'm pretty confident that the writers' current plan is to keep Olicity together and not kill off any of the main three. But if the show gets into seasons 9, 10, 11, etc., and they start dealing with actors who want out and/or running out of story ideas, it could spell trouble. But ratings or not, from a business point of view I can see CW keeping it around for as long as Amell wants to do it.

It's weird that she didn't know Oliver and Felicity are married. I follow her on Twitter and she's usually pretty great, but it's possible she's fallen behind on the show.

[lemotomato]

2 minutes ago, Trisha said:

It's weird that she didn't know Oliver and Felicity are married. I follow her on Twitter and she's usually pretty great, but it's possible she's fallen behind on the show.

Has she not been on social media or follow any news about the show or the Arrowverse or the crossovers? Because it's pretty much been the most talked about thing since it happened.

[WindofChange]

6 minutes ago, Trisha said:

It's weird that she didn't know Oliver and Felicity are married. I follow her on Twitter and she's usually pretty great, but it's possible she's fallen behind on the show.

If she has then she really has no right writing articles about it imo

[BunsenBurner]

I don’t know if the Screen Rant article is the same one that my brother showed me this morning about Arrow ending at 7 seasons because I refuse to look it up. I told him before I read the article that I would bet the author would end it saying BC could then get her own show. Yep, that’s exactly What was suggested. 

Edited January 25, 2018 by BunsenBurner

[JamieLynn832002]

What I don't get, is that author knows about someone on the team betraying Oliver but not that Olicity are already married. The reveal happened at the wedding reception, how do you know that but miss the married thing?

[Mellowyellow]

2 hours ago, lemotomato said:

I think it's sad that the author took an opportunity like that to write a hate piece instead of something promoting her ship. 

Hehe maybe no one reads their WestAllen fanfic on A03 so they used this opportunity to write bad Arrow fanfic instead ?

[Soulfire]

From the AV CLub review of We Fall --

Quote

 

The longer a show runs, the less likely it is to well and truly surprise you. This isn’t a hard and fast rule, and it certainly doesn’t mean that such a show can’t be entertaining. One of the biggest issues with this season of Arrow has been how often it has returned to certain wells, sometimes in ways that don’t acknowledge the growth of its characters and relationships. That happens a little bit in “We Fall,” but who the hell cares, because there’s that other sequence, and it is surprising. It’s restrained. It’s built on the foundation of one of the show’s central relationships. It offers us a new perspective on a familiar scene. It’s well-written, well-acted, and well-directed. It, in short, is damn good.

...

But when we arrive at the big action set-piece of the hour, something else entirely happens. It’s late, and it’s entirely possible that this feeling won’t be quite so strong tomorrow, but at the moment, Felicity’s monologue to William about Oliver — and heroism, and risk, and worry, and violence, and family, and hope, and love — at the moment, that monologue certainly seems like one of the most thoughtful and compelling sequencwa in Arrow’s six-season history. We’ve seen that fight so many times. What we haven’t seen is Felicity, watching, afraid, learning exactly what Oliver does after he jumps, how and when he’ll turn and what he’ll do next. We haven’t seen them all from inside the bunker, caught on security cameras. And we definitely haven’t seen her dig into Parenting 101. Not like this.

The ways that speech could have gone off the rails are many and varied. A swell of epic music would have tanked it. So would an abundance of slow motion, or sparks. Tears and a big desperate hug would have pushed it right over the edge, too. Arrow does many things well, but it’s hard to imagine that anyone would have put ‘restraint’ particularly high on the show’s list of special skills. (Before tonight, I’d have placed it roughly 20 places below ‘salmon ladder’ but at least 10 above ‘Billy Joel cameos.’) Here, though, that exact tool is what makes this scene sing. Well, that, and great writing, and thoughtful, deliberate, but not overly precious editing.

Oh, yes — and great acting. Arrow hasn’t always known what to do with Felicity. Her storyline in season five did a disservice to the character, and from time to time the importance of her relationship with Oliver has overwhelmed everything else, putting the romance way ahead of the person in terms of significance. Not so here. It’s an unabashedly romantic scene, but one that’s based in a long, fraught history. It’s a speech given by a woman whose experience, wisdom, and faith are hard fought, and it serves as a reminder of what Emily Bett Rickards can do when she’s given great material. Like director Wendey Stanzler, Rickards’s touch is exactly as light as it needs to be, and it’s unreservedly great.

Not everything works. But that does. Every once in awhile, a perfect hour of television comes along. But I’ll take this mess with its one perfect scene over any number of fine-but-forgettable hours every day. 

 

https://www.avclub.com/one-great-sequence-does-not-a-perfect-arrow-make-but-1822439629

Edited January 26, 2018 by Soulfire

[tv echo]

I loved the above A.V. Club review of 611. Now here's another great review...

Arrow Season 6 Episode 11 Review: “We Fall” 
Chris King  January 26, 2018
http://www.tvovermind.com/the-cw/arrow/arrow-season-6-episode-11-review-we-fall

Quote

And who’s the character who so eloquently points this fact about William out? Well, of course, it’s Felicity Smoak, who compares Oliver and William’s up-and-down relationship to the troubled one she had with her own father. As Felicity explains, her father’s poor actions obviously bothered her, but what upset her the most was his constant lying; the secrets he kept did just as much, if not more, damage to their relationship than the illegal activities he practiced. But that doesn’t have to be the case with Oliver and William because William is strong enough to handle the truth, he’s mature enough to understand the crazy circumstances that led Oliver to don the hood again. Oliver questions how Felicity is so sure about this, and in one of the sweetest scenes of the episode, she responds with one word: “Genetics.”

That one-word answer works because of how well Felicity Smoak knows, loves, and understands Oliver Queen and because of the time and effort she’s taken to not just befriend his son but become a surrogate mother to him. We’ve seen Felicity and William bond over science, play games, and spend the holidays together, and it’s been clear from both the writing of the Arrow staff and Emily Bett Rickard’s performance that Felicity genuinely cares about him as a member of her family. She sees so much of Oliver in William and knows that the two of them should be closer than they are right now, which is why she’s able to bridge the gap between the two men with her wonderfully moving speech, which plays over the action of the two separate Arrow teams taking out Cayden’s men together.

In her speech, Felicity tells William about how long she’s known and loved his father, ever since he walked into her life with “a bullet-ridden computer.” “This is what he does best,” she says to him. “Nobody does it better.” And Felicity truly knows that because she’s been there with Oliver on this heroic journey since the beginning; she’s loved him for a long time and worried about him for a long time and has seen him at his worst, when he’s relied on the secrets and the lies and the repressed emotions. Felicity has seen through those mistakes, even when she hasn’t always accepted them; she’s recognized that Oliver’s choices have always come from a place of goodness, compassion, and sacrifice.

As Felicity explains to William, that sacrifice, the sacrifice needed to be a hero and to love a hero, to accept that there’s a chance that they might be taken from you at any moment, that type of connection is deep and rare and powerful. This connection is not born from a place of fear and doubt; it comes from hope and faith—it comes from belief. It’s a belief that goes beyond simply trusting in another person; you trust in what they fight for, what they represent, and you understand that it’s bigger than the two of you. And once you believe in something bigger than yourself, once you take that leap of faith, once you embrace the pain and worry that come with sacrifice, you transform your love into something that’s impenetrable, something that can’t be torn down by evil, no matter how overwhelming it may seem. That’s the type of love that Felicity describes, the type of love that she and Oliver have, and by the end of “We All,” once William has listened to Felicity’s words and truly sees what his father is trying to do, it’s the type of love that he and Oliver are building towards as well. It’s a love between father and son that wouldn’t be possible without Felicity Smoak.
*  *  *
-I am very interested to see how the two separate teams continue to work together in future episodes. A couple moments involving the Newbies bothered me throughout the hour (Rene’s suggestion that Felicity was bugging them again and Curtis attempting to tell Oliver off near the end of the episode after they’ve taken down Cayden’s men), but overall, I enjoyed how the two teams functioned, sharing intel and pursuing different leads.
-What I enjoyed less is Vincent’s sudden switch to double-agent. If it’s true, then this turn happened way too quickly, as the Arrow writers have given me literally no reason to care about Vincent other than the fact that Dinah was in love with him before. If it’s another fake-out, well, then, that’s even worse because it will make Dinah look gullible and inept, and those are two things that Dinah Freaking Drake is not. Give her a better storyline, please, Arrow writers.

Edited January 26, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow recap: 'We Fall'
CHANCELLOR AGARD JANUARY 25, 2018 
http://ew.com/recap/arrow-season-6-episode-11/

Quote

Arrow was firing on all cylinders tonight. “We Fall” might have been the best episode of the season. After remaining in the planning stages of his big plan for weeks and weeks, Cayden James finally made his move against Oliver and the entire city, and it was bloody thrilling. Furthermore, having the two teams made the episode a lot more dynamic.

... Once word spreads of the attacks, Team Arrow and The Outsiders (a.k.a. Rene, Curtis, and Dinah, who shot down that name for New Team Arrow, but I’m sticking with it) share intel and spring into action.
*  *  *
What’s great about the ensuing fight scene is that it’s not even about the action. It’s about what’s going on with William. As the fight plays out with the sound kind of muted, the episode cuts back to Felicity talking to William about why it’s important for Oliver to be out there and reassuring him that Oliver’s the best at what he does. I’ll admit that I found her little speech about William needing to have faith that Oliver will come home rather moving, especially since it draws on Felicity and Oliver’s history together. In the end, the day is saved, but the Outsiders make it clear that they don’t intend on reuniting.

Edited January 26, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

ARROW: "WE FALL" REVIEW
BY JESSE SCHEEDEN  25 JAN 2018
http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/01/26/arrow-we-fall-review?abthid=5a6aab9bca0116421f000062

Quote

When we look back at Arrow whenever the show inevitably wraps up, I daresay one of its greatest failures will be the fact that it managed to squander Michael Emerson. Emerson was a huge get for the series this year, and one of the biggest selling points as Season 6 dawned. Yet the Cayden James character has turned out to be one of the most disappointing elements in a generally disappointing season, and this week’s episode did very little to reverse that trend.
*  *  *
But if James poses a clear threat to the city, he’s still far from a compelling, three-dimensional character. His motivations and back-story are as textbook bland as it gets. Coming right on the heels of Season 5 and the Prometheus conflict, it bothers me a great deal that we’re seeing so many of those tropes being recycled. Once again, you have a man who (supposedly) lost a loved one at the hands of the Green Arrow and has now cooked up a meticulous, convoluted revenge plot that takes months to execute. It betrays a real lack of imagination. Not to mention that the complete absence of Black Siren, Ricardo Diaz and Anatoly ensures that James’ alliance of evil still feels as pointless and shoehorned as ever.
*  *  *
It’s hard to know to feel about the new wrinkle introduced this week, the one suggesting that James’ entire vendetta is based on faulty evidence delivered by a mystery player. This suggests there’s a true mastermind pulling everyone’s strings. On the one hand, the last thing this season needs is yet another bad guy. On the other, can Mystery Villain really be any worse than what we’ve got right now? Maybe Adrian Chase will suddenly return and salvage the last few months of this season.
*  *  *
Apart from the scope of James’ devastation, this episode mainly succeeded when it focused on interpersonal drama, both between Team Arrow and the Outsiders (hopefully that becomes their permanent name) and between Ollie and his son. I’m gradually warming to the idea of Curtis, Dinah and Rene forming their own crew. The uneasy dynamic between the two groups adds a little spice to the show, and it allows these former sidekicks to become more independent and assertive. Curtis in particular seems to be blooming now that he’s out from under Team Arrow’s shadow.
*  *  *
Better yet, there were some surprisingly touching moments involving Ollie, William and Felicity this week. It’s easy to forget that Ollie and Felicity got married a couple months back, given how little emphasis there’s been on their relationship since. But if this episode did anything well, it was in celebrating the love between the two and making the Queen family feel like a… well… family. I enjoyed the unusual approach taken to the final battle scene, which downplayed the actual combat in favor of Felicity’s heartfelt monologue.

Edited January 26, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ Recap: “We Fall” – Family Matters
BY ALLISON KEENE      JANUARY 25, 2018
http://collider.com/arrow-season-6-episode-11-recap/

Quote

Now that OTA and NTA have split up, Arrow’s “We Fall” was our first chance at seeing them work side-by-side, but not together. It worked out pretty well. The hour, which was mostly a building-block to move forward the Cayden James story, also provided a nice mix of action and emotional beats. Oliver got to be the Green Arrow, a dad, and the mayor in this episode, and did a great job in all three realms. When that balance is achieved, it’s a good thing. Still, a superhero is only as good as his villain, and there were some cracks there.

In “We Fall,” Cayden James reveals to Oliver that he’s motivated by vengeance because Oliver killed his son with a stray arrow. Sigh. Ok. We’ve been here before. We spent an entire season with Prometheus making Oliver pay for not just killing his father, but really understanding how many lives he has so casually taken. I think we can all agree that Arrow is better when Oliver is killing in the name of vigilantism — it works for him and for the show. Supergirl, The Flash, the Legends, even Black Lightning (so far) hold back when it comes to death blows, but not Oliver Queen. Arrow is a darker show. Yes, he stopped, for awhile, and it didn’t really work. Prometheus “helping” Oliver work through that and take responsibility made for great drama, but we’ve been there. Plus, with the revelation that Oliver didn’t actually kill Cayden’s son, well, it feels like a weak motivation for a pretty gnarly villain whose killing an entire city of innocents to get back at one guy. What’s the point of it all?

Edited January 26, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

CAYDEN JAMES BRINGS STAR CITY TO ITS KNEES IN THE LATEST EPISODE OF ARROW
Trent Moore   January 25, 2018
http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/cayden-james-brings-star-city-to-its-knees-in-the-latest-episode-of-arrow

Quote

William learns the truth when Oliver suits up to rescue him from a field trip gone awry, and finally comes clean that he’s been moonlighting as a vigilante for the past several weeks (though you have to wonder how William didn’t notice the odd schedule all this time). The obvious story here would’ve been to have this revelation lead to weeks and weeks of additional angst and handwringing, but the writers thankfully took it in a different direction — though one that was admittedly a bit corny and too-easily resolved.
*  *  *
*The New Team Arrow (minus Green Arrow) seems to be doing well on its own, though you have to wonder if this uneasy alliance with Vigilante might come back to bite them all by the time its over. Splitting these teams still holds some good storytelling potential, though it will be hard to balance the animosity and cooperation long-term. If nothing else it’s a chance for character growth as these young heroes go solo.

*It was obviously done to build some dramatic tension, but why not just arrest James when he was in the mayor’s office? Yes, he still has the bomb and his team would know … but isn’t he planning to use it, anyway? At least this way they’d have him in custody, right? That just seemed like an odd move.

Edited January 26, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow, ‘We Fall’: Ollie and Team Arrow Reach Rock Bottom
BY CRAIG WACK · JANUARY 26, 2018
http://oohlo.com/2018/01/26/arrow-we-fall-ollie-and-team-arrow-reach-rock-bottom/

Quote

Sex and the Olicity:  Before all hell broke loose, Felicity and Oliver spent a tender moment of married bliss having one of those breezy intimate conversations that make them an adorable couple. Later on, during her conversation with William, Felicity’s love for Oliver really shines through, which helps get William on Team Arrow.
*  *  *
What about the action: With the attacks being mostly virtual, the action sequences are more rescue related, but still well executed. The rescue from the tunnels was solid, especially when William sees that it’s his dad in the hood. The main fight sequence actually helped forward the plot, as the combined teams fighting the goons attacking one of the safe zones is interwoven with Felicity’s talk to William about loving Oliver, and trusting him to always make it home not matter what danger is out there. The little subplot about Vigilante being a double agent is sort of confirmed when he helps Dinah out of a jam during the fight.
*  *  *
Last impressions: Historically, Arrow has had a tendency to slow play its main plots during the course of the season. With James actually setting his plans into motion, this hour had all the feel of an Episode 15 or 16 rather than an Episode 11 of Arrow. Despite being light on the fight scenes, the stakes felt high and you could feel Oliver’s desperation about the situation start to mount. It’s also helpful that we put the whole “William doesn’t know Ollie is still Green Arrow” bit to bed, because with Ollie in the Arrowcave for days at a time, the situation’s believability was stretching thin. Overall, as far as midseason episodes go, this has been one of the best in recent memory.

Edited January 26, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Surprising 611 review from someone who's not a Felicity fan...

ARROW: Here's Our Review Of Season 6 Episode 11 'We Fall'
This weeks episode of Arrow proves that Original Team Arrow is probably the best element of this season so far, while the new Arrow team serve themselves as the weak link.
Ali Harris | 1/25/2018
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/tv/dc/arrow/arrow-heres-our-review-of-season-6-episode-11-we-fall-a157343

Quote

While not a lot happened in this episode, it's fair to say that it was just slightly better than last weeks episode, especially as the writers stepped up with Felicity. I'm not a big fan of Felicity at all but she had some really cool moments, while also having a very memorable moment. So let's start with the good. 
*  *  *
Now, let's talk about the "new Arrow team." Personally, I dislike them very much, I don't know why but every time I watch Renee, Dinah and Curtis working together, it just feels unbelievable. In season 5 there was no story arc for those three to really bring them together and give them a solidified relationship. Unfortunately this episode doesn't change my perspective of these three. They're not interesting and I didn't enjoy watching them get so much screen time when we could've been getting more focus on Original Team Arrow. I've said this before, I like Renee but the other two just feel shallow and they don't really have a good foundation or story and because of that, I don't really believe that they're heroes or that they care about Star City honestly. I also really disliked that they kept Vigilante being a "good guy" a secret from Oliver as that is necessary information to inform Oliver of.
*  *  *
Something I didn't think I'd be saying this season is that I really enjoyed Felicity this episode, she was the rock for Oliver and honestly for William as well. I loved her, she wasn't whining or being annoying, she was there as a supporting wife to Oliver and a loving mother-like figure to William. It was really sweet and believable to see Felicity having a personal moment with William as she explained why Oliver does what he does as the Green Arrow. Even without that moment with William, she was just a really nice character to have in this episode, Emily Bett Rickards acting was quite on point here, especially in that moment with William and when she was explaining to Oliver that he needs to speak with his son. I felt like she was the MVP this episode and I have never said that about her character as I never really loved her. I hope the writers keep going strong with her character and develop her further!

Edited January 26, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Between Funny Story and Arrow 611, I've been reading a lot of praise for EBR's acting lately. :)

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ 6×11 Review: ‘We Fall’
by ALYSSA BARBIERI   January 26, 2018
http://fangirlish.com/arrow-6x11-review-fall/

Quote

If only New Team Arrow, I mean New Team Assholes, didn’t hog the screen. Then this episode would’ve been near perfect. (Seriously, I don’t how they managed to get more annoying than last week’s whine fest. I thought the ego from them in that episode was enough to fill an entire season. Guess I was wrong.)

The focus on Oliver Queen, the man, and his family was the kind of episode that a show like this needs. This show may be called Arrow, but it’s as much — if not more — about Oliver Queen the man. He’s the reason that we watch. He’s the reason that we care. He’s the reason that Arrow exists.
*  *  *
Perhaps the most frustrating part of Arrow right now is knowing how much I could be enjoying this show more than I already am. But the way that the Newbies have been written lately has made it hard to enjoy an entire episode of this show. I don’t know between Rene and Curtis who is the most annoying character on this show. Or which one I dislike more. But if I’d thought — and I did — that these Newbies couldn’t get more annoying, then I was sorely mistaken.

It’s not easy to live up to the hype and glory that is Original Team Arrow. That’s forever been a staple of this show since season one, and it’s not something you can ever change or top. But the problem with New Team Arrow isn’t that they’re not OTA. The problem is that they’re not just likeable. They come off as rude, immature, and full of shit. (Though mostly it’s Rene and Curtis. Honestly, Dinah could do so much better than them.)
*  *  *
Dinah isn’t the one that annoys me on New Team Assholes. It’s just an unfortunate circumstance that she has to be lumped in with them. Dinah’s problem is that she’s trusting the wrong person. And she’s not taking the hints. She’s someone that’s so quick to want to forgive — to want to believe that there’s goodness in the man that she used to love. She wants to open her heart because it’s been closed off for so long. Can’t fault the girl for that, but it’s incredibly frustrating to see her continually place her trust in a man that’s clearly playing her like a fiddle.

Curtis, on the other hand, is proving that there is in fact a walking definition of hypocrisy. For someone that likes to bitch about OTA and betrayal of trust, he’s going behind his own team’s backs. For someone that was such a pleasant surprise in season four, Curtis has evolved into something else…and it’s not an endearing character.
*  *  *
Curtis is more concerned with his suit or his team’s new “name” or trashing on OTA than he is concerned with actually saving the city. He’s become a problem; a problem that this show can’t seem to get rid of. He’s
*  *  *
Can we talk about the fact that Rene is the one that betrayed Oliver?

Because that’s something that has gotten lost in translation. This entire thing — the bugging, the split — stems from Rene’s betrayal in giving Oliver up to the FBI. And yet Rene spent a good chunk of this hour just pissing on Oliver’s character and demeaning him to the degree that he’s like the bad guys they face.
*  *  *
“How very Oliver Queen of you.”

Hey, asshole, did you forget what you did to Oliver Queen? The man that gave you a purpose in this life. The man that made it possible for you to get your daughter back. The man that saved your life. Stop acting like a child in this situation and pointing the finger everywhere but yourself. You set this mess in motion. Pot, meet kettle.
*  *  *
“(Felicity) isn’t bugging us again is she?”

Shut. The. Hell. Up. Stop acting like you don’t need help, you dog. The problem with Team New Assholes is that they’re completely missing the point of their separation from OTA. Their stance was because they didn’t feel they could trust them. And yet, here they are getting help from Felicity and the team and still have the audacity to make snide remarks in a way that paints them as “all holy” compared to Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity. Who died and made you queen? Haven’t you heard, this show already has Queens. Bow the hell down.
*  *  *
Felicity giving Oliver advice on talking to William and being all lovey while doing it = totally married. (And now they actually are.) But in all fairness, Felicity was just on fire tonight spilling truth tea and sound advice to anyone and everyone that would listen. No wonder Emily Bett Rickards received accolades for her performance in this episode from from on-screen husband Stephen Amell.

Felicity has some experience when it comes to fathers; when it comes to a father lying to his kid. She explained to Oliver that, honestly, all William wants is the truth. Whether it’s good, bad, or ugly, he wants all truth and no lies. But Oliver wasn’t sure if William could handle it. Felicity insisted that he could. It was so nice seeing such a genuine conversation between these two characters as they navigate a new life as husband and wife.

As if that wasn’t enough, Felicity gave the speech of the year to William as Oliver fought to protect the people in the city that need him. William has every right to be angry; he has every right to feel the way he does. But he also needs to understand his dad’s perspective, as well.
*  *  *
Speechless. But because I am writing a review, I’m not forced to find words to describe this glorious dialogue.
*  *  *
1. Domestic Oliver and Felicity was everything. More of that please. Don’t forget that they’re newlyweds who are head over heels in love with each other.
*  *  *
4. Emily Bett Rickards was flawless in her speech to William. Speech of the year. So well said. So well understood. And damn right she’s loved Oliver since 1×03.
*  *  *
9. No way in hell Vincent isn’t playing Dinah right now. I don’t trust him for a second.
*  *  *
15. Can we keep OTA and NTA separated forever? Please?!

Edited January 26, 2018 by tv echo

[bijoux]

Team New Assholes. ? Dinah annoys me plenty, though.

[WindofChange]

I'm in love with this

Superhero Insider: New heroes rise on CW super shows

http://ew.com/tv/2018/01/26/superhero-insider-supergirl-flash-black-lightning-arrow/?utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

Quote

Arrow is known for its strong fight sequences; however, in this week’s episode, the show did something new. As Team Arrow and Not Team Arrow went up against Cayden James’ forces in the field, Felicity delivered this powerful monologue to William — who found out about Oliver’s lie — about heroism and dealing with violence and risk. The fight was told from Felicity’s perspective, which is something the show has never done before. Usually, we just see Felicity providing tactical support, but here we come to understand how she feels having to watch the love of her life risk his life every night and what she’s learned from it. What makes this lyrical sequence work is that Emily Bett Rickards keeps a tight control on her delivery, making sure the speech never becomes maudlin. Furthermore, this moment is built on six seasons worth of history and that’s conveyed in the writing and Rickards’ excellent performance. You understand that this is what she’s learned over the past six years, and now she’s embracing her inner parent and sharing it William.—C.A.

[EmilyBettFan]

It's like reading sweet victory over and over again for Felicity/EBR. ?

[tv echo]

This reviewer refers to NTA as "Team Dart" (because a dart is a small arrow)...

TV Review: ‘Arrow: We Fall’ (Season 6 Episode 11)
 JANUARY 26TH, 2018 BY NICHOLAS GRAFF
http://sciencefiction.com/2018/01/26/tv-review-arrow-fall/

Quote

As alluded to before, the main story of this week was Cayden James attacking the city through a massive cyber hack adn turning the city’s electronic infrastructure against its citizens, ending with people getting electrocuted (by things like elevator panels), cars taking control and driving Councilmen into horrible wrecks, subway tracks misaligning and almost leading to wrecks, airplanes crashing, etc. It’s a lot, and Oliver and company are noticeably freaking out (except for Team Arrow Jr., who are so proud of having set up their new HQ they don’t even realize what is going on until Felicity calls them to share intel. Way to stay on top of things guys.) The two teams begrudgingly decide to work together to fight Cayden on this one, and Team Dart (cause Team Arrow Jr. or Team Arrow 2 sounds stupid, and they are like a mini-Team Arrow, and darts are like small arrows) has a leg up because they are sent a message from Vigilante with intel on a target. Vigilante, through Curtis, reveals that he is actually working undercover with James to try to bring him down. Dinah doesn’t believe it and is angry that Rene and Curtis are willing to give Vince a chance but eventually realizes the benefit of having an inside man in James’s crew and agrees to work with him.
*  *  *
I get that Vince used to be an undercover cop, but working undercover with Cayden James seems a bit too subtle for the Vigilante. He seems more the type to just bust in and start shooting all the bad-guys, so I still think it is a long con he and James came up with to mess with Team Dart, especially since Vince told James last episode he knew exactly how to get back in with Dinah and “push her buttons.”

Edited January 26, 2018 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

14 hours ago, Soulfire said:

Here, though, that exact tool is what makes this scene sing. Well, that, and great writing, and thoughtful, deliberate, but not overly precious editing.

Oh, yes — and great acting. Arrow hasn’t always known what to do with Felicity. Her storyline in season five did a disservice to the character, and from time to time the importance of her relationship with Oliver has overwhelmed everything else, putting the romance way ahead of the person in terms of significance. Not so here. It’s an unabashedly romantic scene, but one that’s based in a long, fraught history. It’s a speech given by a woman whose experience, wisdom, and faith are hard fought, and it serves as a reminder of what Emily Bett Rickards can do when she’s given great material. Like director Wendey Stanzler, Rickards’s touch is exactly as light as it needs to be, and it’s unreservedly great.

Wow.  It feels like those who like adult show, rather than just kids in costumes, liked this one.

[Hiveminder]

12 hours ago, tv echo said:

Surprising 611 review from someone who's not a Felicity fan...

ARROW: Here's Our Review Of Season 6 Episode 11 'We Fall'
This weeks episode of Arrow proves that Original Team Arrow is probably the best element of this season so far, while the new Arrow team serve themselves as the weak link.
Ali Harris | 1/25/2018
https://www.comicbookmovie.com/tv/dc/arrow/arrow-heres-our-review-of-season-6-episode-11-we-fall-a157343

I didn't follow the link and read the whole review, but it seems to me like he's saying (not outright, but essential) that he likes Felicity in this episode because she stayed in the little wifey lane, and man that bugs. 

[Featherhat]

17 hours ago, tv echo said:

Something I didn't think I'd be saying this season is that I really enjoyed Felicity this episode, she was the rock for Oliver and honestly for William as well. I loved her, she wasn't whining or being annoying, she was there as a supporting wife to Oliver and a loving mother-like figure to William. It was really sweet and believable to see Felicity having a personal moment with William as she explained why Oliver does what he does as the Green Arrow. Even without that moment with William, she was just a really nice character to have in this episode, Emily Bett Rickards acting was quite on point here, especially in that moment with William and when she was explaining to Oliver that he needs to speak with his son. I felt like she was the MVP this episode and I have never said that about her character as I never really loved her. I hope the writers keep going strong with her character and develop her further!

I didn't follow the link and read the whole review, but it seems to me like he's saying (not outright, but essential) that he likes Felicity in this episode because she stayed in the little wifey lane, and man that bugs. 

Yeah I guess it was a bit "well she's staying in her box" but eh, I thought she was as much Overwatch as ever, just with added trying to be a good stepmother. I think the sky would fall in if there wasn't at least some qualification from CBM about her role. She and Oliver were obviously on the same page completely this ep which was great and the boobs were being more "whiney" with way less justification than she ever was (and CBM and I have completely different opinions about how "annoying" it is when they disagree). 

It will be interesting to see his review after Oliver and Tinah's supposedly big bust up next week, could be it's ok for BC to go against Oliver, even if whining has been NopeTA's speciality recently. 

Edited January 27, 2018 by Featherhat

[tv echo]

17 hours ago, WindofChange said:

I'm in love with this

Superhero Insider: New heroes rise on CW super shows

http://ew.com/tv/2018/01/26/superhero-insider-supergirl-flash-black-lightning-arrow/?utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

Here's the 1-26-18 Superhero Insider podcast that goes with this EW article (Arrow discussion starts at around the 40:30 mark)...

-- Natalie Abrams thought that Oliver was an "idiot" for wiring the $10M to Cayden. She also thought that Cayden's revenge storyline was too repetitive after last season's Prometheus revenge storyline.

-- Kyle Anderson was getting impatient with Cayden's storyline and felt that everyone was waiting around for something to happen in 611.

-- Kyle said that, at this point in the season, he knows where the other Arrowverse shows are headed, but he still doesn't know where Arrow is headed this season.

-- Natalie thought that Arrow is headed toward Oliver "being alone, really alone." The newbies are already gone from his team, and she also noted Diggle's discontent with not becoming GA again. (I guess Natalie doesn't count Felicity.)

-- They both wondered at the absence of FBI agent Samanda Watson.

-- Natalie expressed skepticism that the Vigilante is really a "good guy working undercover" and felt frustrated that "everyone" believed him. She thought he was pulling "the long con."

-- Kyle wondered what it will take to bring the two teams back together and said that he missed having everyone together on one team. But Natalie liked the two teams and wondered if Diggle might move over to the newbies' team. She also thought that Oliver might ultimately decide to hang up the hood and let others take over.*

(* I don't know why Natalie even bothers to watch Arrow. She seems awfully eager to get rid of Oliver and have someone else take over as the lead superhero on Arrow.)

Edited January 27, 2018 by tv echo

[Hiveminder]

4 hours ago, Featherhat said:

 

 

Yeah I guess it was a bit "well she's staying in her box" but eh, I thought she was as much Overwatch as ever, just with added trying to be a good stepmother. I think the sky would fall in if there wasn't at least some qualification from CBM about her role. She and Oliver were obviously on the same page completely this ep which was great and the boobs were being more "whiney" with way less justification than she ever was (and CBM and I have completely different opinions about how "annoying" it is when they disagree). 

It will be interesting to see his review after Oliver and Tinah's supposedly big bust up next week, could be it's ok for BC to go against Oliver, even if whining has been NopeTA's speciality recently. 

I just find it distasteful that this reviewer, and a lot of others, seem to be saying that Felicity’s okay as long as she only does supportive wife things, or nurturing mother things, or smart nerd things. She’s not allowed to ‘whine’ or be ‘annoying’ (read: express her opinion, disagree with the big strong man, or be something other than a prop). I’ve always thought that was a fairly large part of the reason some people don’t like her, because she doesn’t stay in the stereotype box they assigned her to in their heads. 

To be clear, I thought Felicity was wonderful this episode, but I felt like the reviewer was only viewing her through that little woman lens. 

[insomniadreams88]

14 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Natalie thought that Arrow is headed toward Oliver "being alone, really alone." The newbies are already gone from his team, and she also noted Diggle's discontent with not becoming GA again. (I guess Natalie doesn't count Felicity.)

 

Kyle wondered what it will take to bring the two teams back together and said that he missed having everyone together on one team. But Natalie liked the two teams and wondered if Diggle might move over to the newbies' team. She also thought that Oliver might ultimately decide to hang up the hood and let others take over.*

Why would Diggle move to the newbies team? Because he can’t be GA? It’s not like he can be GA on another team and I can’t see Diggle being so upset about not being GA - especially given that we have no idea why he suddenly wants it so badly - that he’d leave Oliver and Felicity. I can’t see him choosing the newbies over them at all. 

[Featherhat]

19 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Why would Diggle move to the newbies team? Because he can’t be GA? It’s not like he can be GA on another team and I can’t see Diggle being so upset about not being GA - especially given that we have no idea why he suddenly wants it so badly - that he’d leave Oliver and Felicity. I can’t see him choosing the newbies over them at all. 

Exactly if he leaves over that it will Bethe most contrived shit since BMD. If its that much of an issue they can job share or began work towards making Spartan just as iconic. Whilst I'm sure it will come up again it didn't seem to be a huge deal anyway.

26 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

I just find it distasteful that this reviewer, and a lot of others, seem to be saying that Felicity’s okay as long as she only does supportive wife things, or nurturing mother things, or smart nerd things. She’s not allowed to ‘whine’ or be ‘annoying’ (read: express her opinion, disagree with the big strong man, or be something other than a prop). I’ve always thought that was a fairly large part of the reason some people don’t like her, because she doesn’t stay in the stereotype box they assigned her to in their heads. 

To be clear, I thought Felicity was wonderful this episode, but I felt like the reviewer was only viewing her through that little woman lens. 

I agree I think reviewer is seeing her through a little woman lenses and yes lot of fanboys turned on her when her storyline was apart or in disagreement to Oliver. "How dare this non comic character become upity and a longterm love interest!" ? Iris is getting the same treatment in places for daring to say "we are the Flash" and organising the team.