The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[lemotomato]

7 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I wonder if these comic book stans would have any problem with anything they don't like about O/F if instead it all happened with Oliver/Laurel or Oliver/Dinah. Probably not. They need to just get over it. 

Of course not. Time and again, they've shown that they don't have a problem with romance, they just hate that the show's romance doesn't follow their comics. Add the fact that the episode clearly sets up Olicity to reunite rather than closing the door like they expected, of course it's the worst.episode.ever as far as they're concerned

[statsgirl]

I think they would dislike a bottle episode with Laurel and Oliver talking about their romance too.  They don't like Iris and she's from comics.  They don't like that yucky relationship stuff but it's harder to complain when GA/BC is an iconic couple.

They LOVE complaining about Felicity because they feel they can justify it because she's not comics canon.

[looptab]

Oh come on. Besides, it wasn't just about the romantic stuff. They were discussing trust. As partners. As team members. If the convos were between Oliver and Diggle we wouldn't be hearing nothing but praise.

[BkWurm1]

They loved the Bromance just a few episodes back between Oliver and Diggle. It's just girls and feelings that are icky. Lol.  

[Belinea]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

It's just girls and feelings that are icky.

More specifically Felicity is icky and if she has feelings she is even worse... 

[looptab]

AvClub gave it an A-, and I'm shocked.

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Arrow finally stops holding off on something it needed to do ages ago: Have Felicity and Oliver open up to each other and finally lay out their motivations. That all this unfolds amid Adrian Chase’s most ingenious attack yet, one that really ought to have left both of them dead, makes this all the more impressive. Considering we barely stray from the bunker, either in the present or in the sexy, sexy flashbacks, this probably counts as a bottle episode, but let’s not sweat the categories. “Underneath” strikes just the right balance between taut, self-contained thriller and character piece, with Oliver and Felicity’s ever worsening situation forcing them to confront uncomfortable truths without ever feeling too contrived.

 

[tv echo]

I was also surprised by how positive the A.V. Club reviewer was about 520.

Some reviews I won't be posting - As quoted upthread, the IGN reviewer thought 520 was "pointless romantic drama" (no surprise there as he never cared for Olicity).  The 411mania reviewer thought that 520 didn't accomplish anything and could be this season's worst episode (which did surprise me).  The TV.com reviewer was meh on this episode. 

[tv echo]

EW reviewer also gave 520 a grade of "A-"...

Arrow recap: 'Underneath’
SARA NETZLEY MAY 3, 2017
http://ew.com/recap/arrow-season-5-episode-20/

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Yes, Arrow fam. The salmon ladder’s back, and it’s sexier than ever.
*  *  *
Flashback to 11 months ago: Felicity and Oliver discuss recruiting more team members and mind-meld over the Arrow suit needing Kevlar sleeves. It’s all very flirty until Curtis interrupts. Darn his timing!
*  *  *
Good thing they kept Felicity’s wheelchair in the bunker! Oliver worries that Chase has discovered William’s location and decides to escape via the elevator shaft. Felicity wagers her “copious Palmer Tech severance” (finally, official in-show confirmation about why Felicity doesn’t have a day job!) that Chase booby trapped it. She wants to use her brain to find an alternative escape route, but Oliver insists on using his brawn. They get testy; see above, re: unresolved argument. Naturally, the shaft is booby trapped, and Oliver plummets onto an enormous, protruding screw (not a euphemism… yet). Shoulda listened to bae, bae.
*  *  *
In the present, Oliver defends his non-support of Felicity’s work with Helix, and she tells him to cram his “I didn’t want you to be like me” explanation. Then they argue over who’s the bigger bad, Bratva or super-hacker Cayden James. Before that argument can take off, the motorcycle engine causes an explosion that ruptures the methane gas pipe. Oops. “So much for doing things my way,” Felicity sighs. Oooh, does this mean they’ll have to do it their way?

Hello, of course it does! With the breathable air now down to about 20 minutes, Oliver consults the blueprints and discovers a sealed-up steam tunnel behind a cabinet. So they combine their strengths: Felicity measures out explosive powder, which has to be precisely precise or the methane will ignite and they’ll die. She worries that her math might be wrong, and Oliver asks, “Are you still Felicity Smoak?” She acknowledges that she is, and he says, “Your math is always right.” Awww!
*  *  *
In the present, Oliver’s hair still looks great post-surgery, and he’s thrilled to see Felicity walking. He thanks her for encouraging him to reject Chase’s torture brainwashing, and Felicity admits to becoming like Oliver in her quest to avenge Billy’s death. (Billy who? This episode completely knocked him out of my brain.)

Anyway, that drive for revenge gave her the tiniest taste of what Oliver’s been through, which allows her to apologize for judging him. “I understand why you lied to me about William, why you had to. I get it.” Then she encourages Oliver to figure out what kind of person he is, with the implication that when he does, she’s ready to talk some more. He looks thoughtful.

Grrr. So much about “Underneath” was so perfect: the bottle episode setup, the Olicity chemistry, the “your way/my way/our way” problem-solving, the salmon ladder. But Felicity taking full responsibility for the breakup, without Oliver saying, “Like you said, my trust issues also got in the way, and I’m sorry, too”? MEH. In the end, I’m glad this conversation (presumably) will reset their relationship to better reflect who these characters are to each other after the last several years, and if doing that requires some one-sided apologizing, then so be it, I guess.

Edited May 4, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ Recap: “Underneath” — An Olicity Ship in a Bottle Episode
BY KAYTI BURT      MAY 3, 2017
http://collider.com/arrow-recap-underneath-olicity/

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“Underneath” was a bottle episode — an episode of television that tends to take place on one set and that utilizes a relatively few amount of actors. If this is what a bottle episode of Arrow looks like, then maybe they should make every episode in a bottle. (I kid! But, maybe, like, at least a few per season.) The limits force the show to focus its storytelling in a way that it isn’t always so great at doing when given a wider scope. By keeping the plot focus on the problem of getting Oliver and Felicity out of the lair and keeping the character focus on the relationship between Oliver and Felicity, “Underneath” tied its action/plot to its theme/character development in some cathartically cohesive ways.
*  *  *
It’s no coincidence that one of the best episodes of Season 5 was one that eschewed the five-year flashbacks in favor of staying a little bit closer to home. As Felicity and Oliver fought to survive and redefine their relationship in the present-day, we see them attempting to rekindle their romance 11 months prior. It’s a relatively quiet story, one that sees them sharing a flirty dinner, having bunker sex, and then Felicity leaving.

Frankly, I think it was kind of a dick move that Felicity slept with Oliver without outlining that she wasn’t interested in getting back together, but it did lead to an honest moment in which Felicity told Oliver she wasn’t ready to trust him again yet, and Oliver told Felicity that he would wait for her. (Not sure how Susan Williams plays into this, but whatever.) Also: However you feel about the events of the flashbacks, the salmon ladder scene was objectively the sweetest scene ever.
*  *  *
The unoriginality of the plot was countered by the solid emotional drama of the episode. The conversations that Felicity and Oliver have about the lack of trust and support in their relationship were not only a carry-over from last week’s episode, but a long, long time coming. I’m not sure if I follow the logic that because Felicity understands why Oliver doesn’t trust her, she’s OK with him not trusting her, but emotional logic has never been Arrow’s strongpoint, so this might be as good as it gets. If Oliver finds out he has anther secret child, he should tell Felicity. Just saying. That has nothing to do with his self-doubt around his mission and the realization that he likes killing a little bit too much. That’s just Relationships 101 and a pretty low bar to reach.
*  *  *
I felt like I was watching some kind of shared common delusion. Instead of everyone taking a step back and thinking, “Maybe we shouldn’t support Oliver when he makes bad decisions,” they made some sort of weird group pact that everyone should support everyone else, no matter how bad their decisions are. That’s not trust; that’s a cult. You can trust and support someone without agreeing with all of their decisions. And I would argue that the healthiest relationships include a degree of honest criticism.

All in all, I really liked this episode, I just needed to get that off my chest. Let’s not use all of the times Team Arrow has foolhardily supported Oliver’s harebrained ideas as a model moving forward, OK, team? OK.
*  *  *
— Real talk: I’m still not convinced that Felicity made a bad decision with Helix. Like, everyone’s making such a big deal about Felicity going over to the bad side, but ARGUS was holding that hacker prisoner in a box, blindfolded and bound for literally no reason other than that he is dangerous. Freeing him seemed like the heroic thing to do.

Edited May 4, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Season 5 Episode 20 Review: “Underneath” 
Chris King  May 3, 2017
http://www.tvovermind.com/the-cw/arrow/arrow-season-5-episode-20-review-underneath

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One of the most universal (and warranted) complaints lodged against Arrow Season 4 was how the series handled Oliver and Felicity’s relationship in the back half of the season. Whether you’re a fan of the two of them as a couple or not, pretty much every Arrow viewer was left unsatisfied with the pair’s break-up, which, at the time, appeared to be nothing more than a bit of contrived drama used to cause conflict within the team. At that point in Season 4, the audience couldn’t understand why Oliver failed to be honest with Felicity about his son, and the fact that there was no follow-up conversation after the two of them split, no discussion addressing their actual problems, left a lot of people, including myself, scratching their heads.

“Underneath” doesn’t completely make up for last season’s failings, but it certainly does a lot to rectify the relationship problems that have plagued Oliver and Felicity for the past season and a half. If there was one thing missing from the second half of Season 4 and the first half of Season 5, it was the dynamic between the two of them, the friendship and comradery that they always had with each other even before they become romantically involved. Arrow first began repairing Oliver and Felicity’s relationship in this season’s “Who Are You?” and has since been laying the groundwork for them to finally confront their issues with one another, a process that started in last week’s episode but doesn’t really come to fruition until tonight’s installment.

... All of the action, from Oliver’s initial fall (That’s why you always listen to Felicity, dude!) to the incredible rescue scene near the end, is tense, exciting, and compelling not just because of how high the stakes are or because of how dangerous the situation is. No, the reason why “Underneath” is so intense for so much of its running time is because of all this is happening to two characters that we care deeply about, two characters that continue to make Arrow one of the best superhero dramas on television.

And really, it’s always the characters and their interactions that make for the best Arrow episodes. The series can pull off amazing stunts and fight choreography, deliver cool comic-book nods, and provide us with entertaining villains, but none of it matters without heroes that we want to root for, characters that we want to invest our time in and spend an hour a week with every Wednesday night. By putting its primary focus on Oliver and Felicity, two of the show’s richest, most well-developed characters, Arrow ensures that, just like last week, it gives fans an episode that they connect with on a deeper emotional level, an hour of television that is easily one of the best episodes that Arrow has produced this season.
*  *  *
Oliver telling Felicity his deepest, darkest secret is a huge turning point for the two of them, not only because Oliver finally allows the woman he loves to see him at his most vulnerable but because Felicity is the only person that can truly make Oliver believe that he’s better than the monster he hates. Despite Oliver’s protests about Felicity not knowing the real man that he is, she remains insistent that she does truly know him; he’s the man she fell in love with, the man she agreed to marry, and she knows that, even though Chase made Oliver confront the worst version of himself, she’s seen the best version of him, a person who selflessly sacrifices himself in order to save the people (and city) that he loves. Now that Oliver has finally divulged this truth to Felicity, he can fully remold himself into someone else, into someone even better than the person he’s been for the past couple of years. He’s made strides with Diggle, Felicity, and the rest of the team by his side, but with his demons finally out in the open now to the most important person in his life, Oliver can finally begin again. As Felicity tells him during the final moments of the episode, “You said you didn’t know what kind of person you are. I think you should figure that out.”

So with Oliver starting again, can he and Felicity also start again together as a united couple? After “Underneath,” the answer to that is a resounding yes, and Oliver confessing his secret isn’t the only reason why. An even more important reason comes from what Felicity tells him as he lies in the ARGUS hospital bed, when she reflects on her time with Helix and the recent decisions she’s made, telling Oliver that she understands him more now because she’s gotten the tiniest taste of the darkness he’s endured. That acknowledgement and understanding from Felicity is crucial because it signals a major change in her and Oliver’s relationship; she’s no longer this pure embodiment of goodness and light, this angel that guides his way—her time with Helix has given her the agency and experience she needed to mourn Billy, to get her hands a little dirty, and to see Oliver more clearly, recognizing the pain, despair, and anguish that has been buried deep inside him for nearly a decade, ever since The Queen’s Gambit crashed and he ended up on Lian Yu. Felicity sees a more complex, fully formed Oliver Queen, the good and the bad, the light and the dark, and it ensures that whatever type of relationship the two of them have moving forward will be deeper and truer than what came before it.

And that’s because, by the end of “Underneath,” Oliver and Felicity are truly equals....
*  *  *
If you ever needed more proof that John Diggle is too good for this world, watch him jump across to that ladder to save his best friends. God, I loved that moment and that whole rescue scene, which was just excellently choreographed and staged....

Edited May 4, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Review: ‘Arrow’ Tries to Get ‘Underneath’ Its Most Polarizing Relationship
Kevin Fitzpatrick | May 3, 2017
http://screencrush.com/arrow-underneath-review/

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As I mentioned last week, the “Olicity” relationship was never necessarily part of the original five-season plan, but rather a wonderful surprise of chemistry between Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards that soured on fans by the time Season 4 made it an integral part of the series. Arrow itself more or less jettisoned soapier relationship aspects after Season 1, and “Underneath” feels almost like an attempt to revisit that brand of heavy melodrama as the series comes full circle. After all, Oliver and Felicity hashing out* trust issues in a dimly-lit bunker was only half the puzzle, as Diggle and Lyla shared some of the same arguments upstairs, amidst the team’s desperate efforts* to save their leaders.
*  *  *
Revisiting the Season 4 drama around Oliver’s son also felt like it ignored the larger schism between Felicity and the team last week, reducing what should have been a lasting conflict to Oliver’s deeper reasons not to trust her, or even his own judgment. “Underneath” did better in its effort to revisit Chase torturing Oliver into believing himself a true killer, especially in its reminder that Oliver has now been battling demons for ten years, regardless of what foundation that crusade was built upon. Amell and Rickards really poured everything into making those revelations land, and it’s a shame the most Diggle and Lyla’s side mustered was “well, I guess we should blindly trust one another sometimes!” There were major consequences looming about last week, and “Underneath” disappointingly never ran with them.
*  *  *
- Don’t tease us with Curtis and Rene as a couple if you’re not going to follow up next season.
- Let’s be real, this whole episode was one long love-letter to the Salmon Ladder.
- Should William look that much older already?

[tv echo]

Arrow Review: Underneath (Season 5 Episode 20)
May 3, 2017 Lissete Lanuza Sáenz
http://www.telltaletv.com/2017/05/arrow-review-underneath-season-5-episode-20/

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See, Arrow, this is what you had to do. This is what we needed. How did it take you 20 episodes to get here?

And I’m not even talking about Olicity, I’m talking about turning on the TV to watch a show in its fifth season and feeling like I recognize the characters I’m watching. I’m talking about common sense. I’m talking about continuity.
*  *  *
And that’s not even going into the kettle of truth tea Lyla dishes out to Diggle.

Yes, he’s a hypocrite too. Yes, he’s willing to look the other way when it comes to Oliver and not when it comes to his wife. Yes, he should be apologizing.
*  *  *
Not that everything is right with the episode, of course not. The gap from the end of Season 4 to the beginning of Season 5 was almost insurmountable, and though the show gamely tries, the flashbacks don’t really explain why Felicity would go from “I’m not ready yet” to dating Billy Malone or how Oliver would go from “I’m not going anywhere” to Susan Williams.
*  *  *
Why can’t two characters find their way back to each other without the female character bowing down her head and meeting the male – not in the middle, but a few steps in his side?

And yes – this us still much better than what we’ve seen all season. Oliver did take responsibility, and it is important for Felicity and Oliver to actually communicate, to have this conversation if they were ever going to move forward, not even romantically, but as two people who care about each other and who have to work together every day.

But the main problem with this episode is that this Felicity and this Oliver are now, in a way, strangers to us. We’re not used to them anymore, so we look at them with a certain reticence.

Can we trust that they’re really here to stay? Should we?
*  *  *
For a minute or two there it was almost like this show cared about dealing with Felicity Smoak’s injury. Only lasted a minute or two, though.
*  *  *
Dyla making up was great and exactly what I wanted, but I gotta say I’m not liking the Dinah/Diggle vibes I’m getting of off you, Arrow.

Edited May 4, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow season 5 episode 20 review: Olicity is rising … as better people
MAY 4, 2017 
http://cartermatt.com/252659/arrow-season-5-episode-20-review-olicity-rising-better-people/

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Going into Arrow season 5 episode 20, odds are you were familiar with the abundance of buzz that was out there about the episode. Heck, “OLICITY IS RISING” was a trending topic for a while, and all signs were clear that the defining couple of the show for many people out there would be at the core of the story.
*  *  *
Going into this episode, the Olicity relationship was one that frustrated us mightily in season 4. It was better almost when they weren’t together since there was something that the two were pursuing. When they were together, they changed each other and it felt like they were constantly mired and drama and Oliver still couldn’t find a way to be true to her. Ultimately, we blame the writers for some of this given that we effectively missed the first few months of the actual relationship. We jumped in midway, and it was a dynamic we didn’t quite understand.

This episode created a turnaround in our thoughts on the couple — it was realistic, human, and it gave us a sense that they could actually get together again. Still, kudos to the writers for not having them hookup in the present right away. This story was more about these two people acting like adults, having real conversations, and understanding each other more than they ever did.
*  *  *
In between Olicity and then Diggle and Lyla working through some of their own issues (John’s been a little hypocritical himself about her treatment of ARGUS prisoners), “Underneath” was an episode that impressed more than we thought it would going in. We can actually envision a situation now where Oliver and Felicity could get back together, and there were some strong performances from Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards to go along with it. Now, we just hope that the show continues this natural progression with this relationship. They’ve learned from their mistakes, so if they do move forward as a couple, they both need to make sure they are ready.

For now, we will say that Olicity is rising … but as better, more responsible people and teammates more so than a romantic couple. That can come down the road. Episode Grade: B+.

Edited May 4, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I stumbled across this fan site review of 520 (fwiw, fan is a guy in Texas)...

Arrow Episode Guide: Season 5, Episode 20 - Underneath
Starman  May 3, 2017
http://www.mygeekygeekyways.com/2017/05/arrow-episode-guide-season-5-episode-20.html

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Why didn't Oliver of Felicity know about the Doomsday Fail-Safe on The Bunker's generators?  If they had, couldn't they have just sat tight and waited for them to kick back on instead of trying to repower the generator as a way of escaping, thus leading to the methane link that made the generators into a death trap?
*  *  *
Again, the chemistry between Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickard's is fantastic and the best moments of the episode involve Felicity and Ollie talking.
*  *  *
The direction of the episode is very tense and tight, with the flashback sequences perfectly counter-balancing the action.

The script is solid, well-paced and features a lot of great dialogue with nearly every core cast member getting at least one good scene.
*  *  *
Curtis named his T-Spherrs Kodo and Podo after the thieving ferrets from the 1982 movie The Beastmaster. Both he and Dinah agree that a young Marc Singer - the actor who played the titular Beastmaster, Dar, was quite helpful in discovering their respective sexual orientations.

Interestingly enough, Marc Singer played the role of General Matthew Shrieve in the third-season flashback sequences of Arrow.
*  *  *
One of the best episodes of the Season. Possibly one of the Top Ten best Arrow episodes of all time.

Edited May 4, 2017 by tv echo

[Trisha]

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

I was also surprised by how positive the A.V. Club reviewer was about 52

I don't always agree with him, but Alasdair has been pretty positive on S5 as a whole and has been pushing for a better look into Felicity's motivations (while also pushing back against the male characters' hypocrisy), so this one didn't surprise me. The comments where mostly positive too -- at least they were when I looked this morning.

I love that you recap all the reviews here, @tv echo. You're doing god's work!

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ 5×20 Review: ‘Underneath’
May 4, 2017  by ALYSSA BARBIERI
http://fangirlish.com/arrow-5x20-review-underneath/

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“Underneath” managed to encapsulate the most talked about and arguably most important relationship on Arrow in an hour wrought with intensity, thrill, romance, insane chemistry that still has me tripping, and even humor that was so seamlessly blended together to form the perfect vision of what Arrow could and should[i/] look like moving forward.
*  *  *
Arrow’s fifth season has resembled a potential world where the Dominators had actually succeeded in taking over. Where the characters we’ve grown to know and love didn’t resemble themselves, where storylines didn’t connect, and where “back to basics” was mistaken for “back to new,” as in bringing in elements that made Arrow look like a new show. And not a better one. Silly me for tuning into Arrow this season and expect to find the characters that I recognize.

They say, stick to what works.

That’s something that Arrow got away from this season, and it’s shown both in the product and the fan response. Don’t take for granted the elements of the show that elevate it to another level and also bring with it a dedicated and passionate group of fans that help make this show be heard on a daily basis.

What has made Arrow work over the years? A focus on character. A focus on Oliver & Felicity. A focus on Oliver, Felicity, & Diggle. A focus on a personal villain. A focus on the elements that made this show brilliant at the peak of this show’s success back in season 2.
*  *  *
An episode focused on Olicity? This was the breath of life that Arrow so desperately needed. A breath of life that should’ve come way earlier in the season. A breath of life that you know the writers had planned but waited far too long to carry out.
*  *  *
So much of that is a testament to Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards, who so flawlessly and effortlessly breathe life into this relationship that has such a tremendous impact in so many ways. Things are just different when these two are sharing a scene. It’s like the camera finally focuses and we’re witnesses to magic. Stephen and Emily’s dynamic has been magic since the beginning. It’s why Oliver and Felicity have had this amazing journey in the first place. And it’s the reason why their journey will continue.

Arrow is at its best when it’s focusing on these characters as individuals rather than part of a grander scheme. Sure, action-packed episodes can be exciting. But it’s the emotional episodes that elevate a television show into something so much more than an element of fiction.
*  *  *
The flashbacks didn’t show us anything we didn’t already know about Oliver and Felicity. The pair still make googly eyes at each other. Felicity remains the only one that can make Oliver smile like that. And they still love each other more than anyone can fathom.
*  *  *
But the flashbacks did show us that the main issue in Oliver and Felicity’s relationship has been that trust that Felicity found lacking. It stems back to the William situation. People seem to believe that Felicity broke up with Oliver because he lied to her about William. But that isn’t the case. She broke up with him because he didn’t trust her enough to tell her when people like Malcolm Merlyn and Barry Allen knew.
*  *  *
While the past was all about the door being almost closed, the present served the opposite purpose of showing us that the door is finally open for Oliver and Felicity’s reunion.
*  *  *
It hasn’t been a matter of love between Oliver and Felicity. That’s always been a constant. It’s been about the matter of trust that they need in order to have a healthy and successful relationship. And they had that in season 4 – until Arrow forced baby mama drama upon them and took that sacred trust that had been a cornerstone in their relationship away. There’s no taking that back.
*  *  *
Let’s be honest, Felicity should not have apologized. Felicity shouldn’t have to apologize for her reaction to Oliver keeping William a secret. She also didn’t mean that Oliver should have lied about William in the first place. But I feel like she apologized more because she felt like she had to, which is still bad.
*  *  *
Even if Felicity doesn’t like that Oliver lied about William, she now has an understanding of why he did it. After her dabble in a tad of darkness, she can see where he’s coming from just like Oliver can see where she was coming from. That’s what understanding is. It’s not about agreeing about every single thing. It’s about acknowledging the other person’s perspective and respecting it. Now they understand each other, which is huge.
*  *  *
When Oliver figures out who he is, Felicity will be there waiting. There was an interesting parallel that the writers threw in this episode relating to Felicity regaining her ability to walk. In 4×15, Felicity was walking away from Oliver and their relationship. In 5×20, Felicity was walking toward Oliver and the potential of repairing their relationship.
*  *  *
1. This was hands down the best episode of Arrow this season. Not just because of Olicity, though I won’t lie it was a big reason why. But this episode managed to do so much within a small space. It had action, suspense, romance, chemistry, and even humor. Seriously, when’s the last time Arrow successfully managed humor on this show?
*  *  *
4. Oliver pulled Felicity up with one freaking arm. That is how you OTP. These two self-sacrificing puppies. They’re both willing to give their lives for each other. But there was no way in hell that Oliver was going to let Felicity die – even if it was her asking. Just like Felicity would never let Oliver die. Watching Oliver, who was bleeding out and who’s lungs where filled with methane, pull Felicity up with one arm was the stuff of epicness.
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6. That cliffhanger would’ve been awesome if I actually liked William. Poor kid. It’s not him, it’s Arrow. We could’ve had it all, but Arrow messed up William when they introduced the Baby Mama Drama that spelled a temporary break for Olicity and the show that we’d grown to love. I did love one thing about that scene though: Adrian Chase. God, I’ve missed you.

Edited May 4, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ Recap: Trapped Under a Four-Story Bomb
Robert Clarke-Chan  May 4, 2017
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/arrow-recap-trapped-four-story-bomb-143853827.html 

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... It’s a fantastic episode that clears the way for the final three episodes of the season.
*  *  *
While the ultimate dream would be for this entire episode to have only been Oliver and Felicity trapped in the Bunker to hash out five full seasons of history, when you throw in the flashback, it’s still about 80 percent of a bottle episode, and the two have enough time to hash out at least this year’s worth of drama, at least. Felicity finally realizes what Oliver has been clumsily trying to tell her about her relationship with Helix. It’s not that he thinks she’s not strong enough to make the same sacrifices as him or that he doesn’t trust her — it’s that those sacrifices have taken an ugly toll on his life and he needs her to find a better way.

And for Oliver’s part, it seems like she’s finally got through to him that he doesn’t like to kill – he just believes that because it’s part of Chase’s scheme to break him down. You can get anyone to believe anything if you torture them for a week. It may be the most devious plan of any Arrow villain yet because there’s a shred of truth in it. Like Felicity said, Oliver’s been killing for ten years. Why would you do that if you didn’t like it? The answer, of course, is that if you’re willing to disband your team, shut down operations, and let a killer run loose to punish yourself, your moral compass is still intact and Chase’s game is a lie.
*  *  *
Felicity’s problem is that she thinks Oliver doesn’t trust her, which isn’t really true. However, it is true when it comes to Diggle and Lyla and the evidence is far more compelling. After all, Team Arrow is more or less in the same business as A.R.G.U.S. when it comes to non-sanctioned justice. Why does Dig give Oliver the benefit of the doubt and not his own wife? She hands him a file full of all the black ops her organization is involved with to prove she’s on the up and up and what does he give in return? A half-hearted promise that “they” will get through this, like she still needs to earn his forgiveness. Oliver managed to justify his seemingly patronizing attitude towards Felicity’s desire to do what it takes; what’s Dig’s excuse?
*  *  *
Tonight’s MVP is, hands down, Curtis Holt. Not only did he act as Star City’s number one matchmaker in the flashback, he also named his T-Spheres Kodo and Podo. The Beastmaster is an objectively terrible film, but Marc Singer’s pet ferrets almost make the whole thing worthwhile.
*  *  *
Despite Felicity’s inability to take on the salmon ladder, Juliana Harkavy says that the actress who plays her, Emily Bett Rickards, actually has tackled the obstacle. “She is so incredibly strong. She is fitness goals.”

Edited May 5, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Gets Under Its Relationship Problems in, Um, “Underneath”…Oh, I See What They Did There
May 4, 2017 by Kelly Konda 
https://weminoredinfilm.com/2017/05/04/arrow-gets-under-its-relationship-problems-in-um-underneathoh-i-see-what-they-did-there/

Quote

How has it taken Arrow this long to finally have a scene where Oliver tries to teach Felicity how to use the salmon ladder? It’s the kind of scene that, in retrospect, has always been there waiting to happen; the writers just needed the perfect scenario to bring it forth. Turns out, that perfect scenario was Adrian trapping Oliver and Felicity in the Arrowcave, forcing them to hash out their problems while also flashing back to that one time 11 months ago when they engaged in some much-delayed break-up sex. That scene alone doesn’t make “Underneath” great, but it sure helps and will likely be the one scene people remember from the episodes months from now (at the very least, it will live on in GIF form).

Either way, “Underneath” is a surprisingly fantastic episode, a claustrophobic thriller in bottle episode form with mature character developments and competent support from the new recruits. Moreover, it addresses all of the issues I objected to in last week’s episode. Annoyed at Diggle’s hypocracy? So is Lyla! And this week she confidently argues her viewpoint and forces him to admit how full of shit he’s been. Desperate for Oliver and Felicity to finally have an actual adult, non-contrived conversation about not just their break-up but also their lingering tension and recent hostilities, or for Felicity to at least remember the name of her dead ex-boyfriend whose death so directly informed her descend into vengeance-seeking against Chase? “Underneath” has all of that in spades.
*  *  *
Well, here’s Felicity in “Underneath” clearly and confidently explaining her POV: Oliver doesn’t trust her. In fact, because of who he is and the experiences he’s had he doesn’t truly trust anyone, and while she can stomach that as his partner-in-vigilantism she retains the right to demand more from a spouse (not that she has a clean record of that herself considering the secrets she kept from Billy). The episode even amusingly has Oliver proving her point by failing to listen to her advice, heading into a clearly booby-trapped elevator, nearly falling to his death and having to eat crow when Felicity serves up a well-earned “toldyaso” followed by a “but I supported your decision because I trust you, a courtesy you refuse to return.” Ouch.
*  *  *
That’s perhaps what I liked most about “Underneath.” It’s not just that Oliver and Felicity finally had a mature conversation about their break-up, or that it was so fun watching Felicity try and fail on the salmon ladder. It wasn’t even the beautiful bits of small comedy from Stephen Amell, such as his joy in saying “it’s like a chin-up with a flourish at the end” or confused, but accepting reaction to Felicity’s explanation of the sudden shot of adrenaline in his chest. No, it’s that in “Underneath” the women called the men on their shit, Lyla showing how little time she has for Diggle’s stubbornness and Felicity refusing to let Oliver submit to self-doubt.
*  *  *
1. As one very excited Arrow fan reminded me at PlanetComicon in Kansas City this weekend, Stephen Amell will be on American Ninja Warrior later this month. Do you think they will make him carry Emily Rickards around Yoda-style like he does in this episode? Because that would certainly make his American Ninja-ing more impressive.
2. I’m with Quentin – I’ve had just about enough of Rene calling people “Hoz.”
*  *  *
4. I like Curtis, really I do, but his diarrhea of the mouth shtick has been wearing thin lately. The writers have been employing it far too aggressively to lighten the mood. It was more bearable this episode, though, mostly because his jokes were funnier.
5. Random thought – there was once a character named Rory Regan on this show. We didn’t just make that up. He was friends with everyone. Feels like so long ago.
*  *  *
7. In the larger scale of things, “Underneath” is either the perfect end to Olicity, or a door-opening to a potential reunion. Time will tell.

Edited May 5, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

The Arrow Cave is a death trap and Olicity heats back up in the latest Arrow
Trent Moore May 04, 2017 
http://www.blastr.com/2017-5-4/arrow-season-5-episode-20-underneath-recap

Quote

The good: Putting Olicity back on the table, Diggle and Lyla are the grown-ups, B-team to the rescue

The romantic relationship between Oliver and Felicity is one of the most contentious and hotly debated in all of fandom these days, so you either had a lot to love — or hate — in this one. But I was actually glad to see "Olicity" return to the narrative, as we learn a good bit more about Oliver and Felicity's breakup, and they make some major strides toward potentially getting back together. This is a storyline that's been sidelined for a good while, but this week's flashback (to 11 months ago in the offseason, as the writing staff seems to be playing around with some more flashback freedom ahead of next year) showed that the two actually had a brief hook-up before Season 5 began. So yeah, there's still some heat there.

With the two trapped underground, they're forced to confront the thing that's kept them apart all year: Trust. Felicity felt Oliver didn't trust her with the fact that he had a son, and that was the straw that broke the camel's back when it came to secret-keeping. But, after going a bit rogue herself and keeping her fair share of secrets with Helix this season, it's given Felicity a new perspective on making the tough calls — and Oliver has come to realize it's not that he didn't trust Felicity, it's that he didn't trust himself. They got at some character moments that have been building organically, especially in the wake of Oliver's torture at the hands of Prometheus. It's a touching moment between two characters who have been through so much through the course of this series (especially the scene where Oliver refuses to drop Felicity, and pulls her up by sheer force of will), and it looks like they could definitely be setting the scene for a potential reunion. Which, again, your mileage is going to vary on that. 
*  *  *
The bad: Oliver's stupid stubbornness, Chase's deus ex machina

He might be a bit stubborn, sure, but Oliver is a fairly smart dude. So, the fact that he walked right into a trap that he literally knew was a trap is a frustrating bit of storytelling. He climbs the elevator shaft after Felicity warned him it is most definitely boobytrapped, them he stumbles immediately into the boobytrap and is impaled during the fall. Oliver is smarter than this. Yes, they're setting up the storyline for Oliver to listen to Felicity's plan, but he doesn't have to be a complete moron first to listen to her plan.  

Edited May 5, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Recap: Season 5 Episode 20 “Underneath”
Amy Woolsey   May 4, 2017
http://culturess.com/2017/05/04/arrow-recap-season-5-episode-20-underneath/

Quote

Of the many struggles Arrow had last season, the most frustrating was its ham-fisted handling of Oliver and Felicity’s break-up. Maybe it makes sense on an intellectual level for Felicity to be upset about Oliver keeping his son a secret, but emotionally, the plot point rang false. After all, they endured together, why would that be the breaking point? In a show that puts its characters in life-and-death scenarios on the regular, an illegitimate kid seems so … banal.

All’s well that ends well, though. It turns out that separating Oliver and Felicity was the key to rejuvenating their relationship, which had lost its spark long before William became a thing. Not only are they fun again, unburdened by romantic histrionics, but the tension between them feels organic and exciting.
*  *  *
There, once again deep underground, Oliver confesses his secret – that his crusade was based on a lie. He’s overprotective of Felicity not because he doesn’t trust her, but because he doesn’t trust himself. Credit five seasons of writing for making the weight of this moment palpable. We, like Felicity, understand that for Oliver, revealing his identity (removing his mask, so to speak) is the ultimate sacrifice. It’s a kind of loss.

Felicity doesn’t try to convince Oliver that he is wrong; as she says, she knows him too well. But what does it mean that she loves him anyway? After all, while her trauma (her parents’ divorce, her boyfriend’s arrest, etc.) doesn’t compare to his, Felicity has developed her own defenses. She only commits to a relationship if she feels like she can fully trust the other person; that’s her sacrifice. Plus, she might be an innate optimist, but she is hardly immune to dark impulses, as her stint with Helix attests.

In other words, they’re perfect for each other.

Edited May 5, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Season 5 Episode 20 – Underneath Review
4th May 2017   Kevin Perreau 
http://www.filmoria.co.uk/arrow-season-5-episode-20-underneath-review/

Quote

... It was a very symbolic episode, with hitting dialogue that ties greatly in the development of the season and our characters.

Similarly to their physical beings trapped underground, both Felicity and Oliver also feel trapped mentally, without any real sight of a light at the end of this relationship tunnel. Felicity has a constant struggle of having to back up anything Oliver orders, but will not trust the one action Felicity makes to try to catch Prometheus. However, Oliver does not see this as an issue for Felicity, but an internal one, as a big shock as that may be. With the realisation that he likes to kill, he doesn’t want Felicity to make the jump to the dark side, even though she isn’t exactly killing anybody.

The carry-over from last week’s episode exemplified the emotional turmoil between the two, and felt extremely believable. The talk between the two has been foreshadowed numerous times throughout the season, and Underneath had very fitting emotional dialogue. It was further demonstrated through flashbacks when Oliver and Felicity tried to define their modern day relationship. After they broke up, we see them trying to rekindle their romance. Despite not resolving their overall issues, the drunk sex did make them just a little step closer.
*  *  *
The main star of this episode is undoubtedly Felicity, in terms of her character development and performance. Underneath proved Felicity’s resilience, and the importance of her character. The only unbelievable part is the fact Felicity’s toned body couldn’t do a chin-up. The flashbacks with Felicity and Oliver added a nice touch that compelled the story line and emotion. Two weeks without any Russia flashbacks make it seem that the Russian story line has really been concluded. The episode also ended with the return of Adrian Chase, in the presence of Oliver’s son William, aka Matthew.

Edited May 5, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Olicity Rising: Arrow 5x20 Olicity Heart-to-Heart
MARILYN PORTER   May 4, 2017
http://www.heroesandheartbreakers.com/blogs/2017/05/arrow-season-5-episode-20-underneath-olicity-back-together

Quote

It was very important for Arrow to show this before we get into the climax of the season. We had to see Oliver find some hope, not just for him and Felicity but for himself. This season is about Oliver, first and foremost. That includes his mission, his legacy, his father’s legacy, his team, and his love. He can’t move forward if he’s doubting himself. This episode was absolutely vital to establish that he can believe in himself. It’s in him to push Chase’s psycho conditioning aside and be the hero that Felicity knows he is.

As for Olicity, this episode needed to establish two things: 1) What happened over the summer to cause these two to have such a wall up between them? 2) Can they understand one another and repair their relationship? I feel both of these were handled very well. Well enough that I’m satisfied with the answers and am ready to move forward into what comes next.

The flashbacks established that Oliver and Felicity’s natural chemistry was starting to overtake them naturally in the bunker. They simply can’t help it with each other. Curtis noticed this chemistry too and set them up in true fanfiction-esque fashion. What does incendiary chemistry mixed with two bottles of wine produce? It produces sex. Scorching hot right-there-on-the-mats sex. Afterwards, however, Felicity is quick to tell Oliver that the sex doesn’t change anything between them. She loves him, but she can’t ignore that he doesn’t trust her. Their breakup didn’t have anything to do with William. It had everything to do with Oliver continually keeping her out. She felt he did this because he didn’t trust her. She urged him to look into that and get back to her. And maybe when he figures it out, she’ll be ready to talk and they can maybe reunite.

Of course, we know how this went. Oliver didn’t look into himself, at why he pushed her away. And Felicity met and began to date Billy. And that’s where we picked up in 5x01. It’s a hard pill to swallow. I fully believe that in 5x05, when Oliver visited Felicity on the loft balcony, they both lied. He lied about being okay with her dating someone else. And she lied about the door between them being closed. And this is the crux of why these two have been at such odds this season.
*  *  *
The good news is that they’ve worked through that now. That’s the second thing this episode needed to establish. The present day showed Oliver and Felicity finally talking out their issues with each other and finally (finally) understanding one another. Oliver made it clear that it wasn’t Felicity that he didn’t trust, it was himself. He keeps her out because of how he sees himself, how he doubts himself. And she understands what it’s like to fall so deep that you justify the things you do to those you love, even if it’s wrong.

Edited May 5, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Here's jbuffyangel's review of 520 (I didn't read it because her website kept freezing up on me (maybe because it has so many animated gifs)...

Truth: Arrow 5x20 Review (Underneath)
http://jbuffyangel.tumblr.com/post/160315547858/truth-arrow-5x20-review-underneath

Edited May 5, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ Was Right to Kill Off Laurel Lance
Connor Ahluwalia  •  May 4, 2017
http://fandom.wikia.com/articles/arrow-right-kill-off-laurel-lance

Quote

Laurel was problematic from the start
*  *  *
Critics of the Olicity pairing–that is, the romance between Oliver Queen and hacker Felicity Smoak that blossomed towards the end of Arrow‘s second season–are quick to point out that, in the comics, Laurel is Oliver’s true love. As such, killing Laurel was seen as the ultimate insult to purists who were holding out for a rekindling of their onscreen relationship. What those fans tend to forget, however, is why Olicity became so popular among some fans and, eventually, the show’s writers: Laurel was the worst part of the show.
*  *  *
None of this is the fault of actress Katie Cassidy. Rather, it stems from the initial decision to have the character start out as a lawyer as opposed to a vigilante, removed from the main storyline. Whereas Felicity got to be part of Team Arrow almost from the beginning, it took Laurel almost two years to discover Oliver’s secret. By that point fans had lost interest in the character. This was made worse by the arrival of Laurel’s sister Sara, the original Canary, whose badass characterisation constituted everything fans originally wanted from Laurel but never got. By the time Laurel stepped up to take her sister’s place, she came off as a pale copy.

Her death made dramatic sense
*  *  *
Her replacements have reinvigorated the show
*  *  *
Of course, there are two new characters who are more obviously direct replacements for Laurel. The first is Dinah Drake, a tough undercover cop with a metahuman “canary cry” ability. Named for the original Black Canary from the comics, Dinah is essentially the Laurel fans originally wanted but never got. While it’s too soon to know if fans will warm to her the way they warmed to Sara or Laurel, she’s currently hitting all the right notes.

Then there’s Black Siren, Laurel’s Earth-2 doppelganger....

Edited May 5, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I almost fell off my chair when I read this very positive review of 520 at ComicBook.com (my surprise is due to the source, not the positivity)...

Powered By Olicity, "Underneath" Is One of Arrow's Best Episodes of the Season
Russ Burlingame  May 3, 2017
http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/05/04/powered-by-olicity-underneath-is-one-of-arrows-best-episodes-of-/

Quote

With a healthy dose of shipper bait, some kick-ass stunts, and some of the best use of the flashback device in recent memory, Arrow delivered a rock-solid stand-alone episode right in the middle of the madness of May's run-up to the finale.
*  *  *
The last three seasons, there have been two feuding camps among the Arrow fandom, debating whether more or less of Oliver's love life -- and particularly his relationship with Felicity Smoak -- is key to making the series better and more addictive. Tonight's episode used "Olicity" (and a lot of the show's other strengths) to great effect and delivered one of the best episodes of the season.

First off, a disclaimer: The "Olicity" phenomenon and its impact on the show is an ongoing and evolving argument. Our take is that it's hard not to love Felicity, and it's easy to root for the couple...but as with many dramas, there's often an inclination to create conflict for artificial drama, and 

It's the same reason writers and editors believed that a married Superman or Spider-Man was "boring," and it's often wrongheaded, and leads to mopey or irrational characters that can annoy audiences who will then blame "the relationship," something that happened a lot on Arrow last season.
*  *  *
The flashbacks were actually where Olicity was at its best: fun, sexy, and not at all awkward around one another, even though they weren't actually a couple.
*  *  *
Oliver refused to give up on Felicity, who refused to give up on Oliver, and all the while, it felt like even the frustrating and despiriting [sic] feud between Dig and Lyla was something that was providing fuel for the plot.

Everyone who appeared onscreen had something to do, and while this episode may have focused primarily on Oliver and Felicity, it did move the larger plot along in a couple of big ways, it provided some solid character development for both of the two big "couples," and teased progression for the City Hall subplot.
*  *  *
Arrow is at its best when the plot is driven by the characters instead of the other way around, when the flashbacks play into the A plot in a meaningful way, and when Oliver and Felicity are their best selves, bringing out the best in the team they inspire, rather than creating unnecessary conflict within the ranks.

All of that came out in spades in "Underneath," and whether or not you ship Olicity, this episode was one of the stronger ones we've had this season...even without spending much time on the Prometheus plot.

Edited May 5, 2017 by tv echo

[Mellowyellow]

@tv echo do they hate Felicity normally? Cuz that was a really positive review.

[tv echo]

^^^ My general experience has been that comic book sites (not just sites that have "comic book" in their name, but sites that are geared toward comic book fans) tend to advocate a stricter adherence to comic book "canon" - whatever that means. Therefore, they tend to be pro-GA/BC and, consequently, anti-Olicity, when it comes to Arrow.

However, like everything else in life, I guess there are always exceptions to the general rule.

Edited May 5, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Sadie Gennis must've been gritting her teeth when she wrote this article (you might recall that she said in a 2013 article that "Olicity should never happen" and then said in a 2017 article that, other than Oliver, BC is "the most important figure in the Green Arrow canon," and suggested that Black Siren could be redeemed and become the new BC)...

Is Arrow Setting the Stage for an Olicity Reunion?
By Sadie Gennis | May 4, 2017 2:14 PM EDT
http://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-oliver-felicity/

Quote

After the pair broke up, there were worries about how the CW drama would handle their central couple splitting up, but still having to work together. Would it be super tense? Would it be awkward as hell? Would this essentially kill their playful banter? But much to fans' delight, Arrow actually found a nice groove in the wake of the Olicity breakup, with the series reminding fans that long before these two first hooked up, they were great as co-workers and friends. In fact, things were going so well that some were questioning whether Oliver and Felicity really are better off without any of that pesky romantic drama getting in the way.
*  *  *
Felicity telling Oliver to figure out what kind of man he is is important not just for Oliver's character growth and peace of mind, but it also pushes the pair one step closer to a romantic reconciliation. If Oliver can accept himself as a good person -- a person worthy of the great Felicity Smoak -- then he can let down his walls and truly trust her, because he'll have finally learned to trust himself.

Or they'll just stay friends. Who knows? We don't predict the future. But if we had to put our money on it, we'd bet that Arrow is starting to lay the groundwork for a future Olicity reconciliation.

Edited May 5, 2017 by tv echo

[Mellowyellow]

Haha even without you giving a history on this reviewer I can feel the teeth gritting TV Echo.

That comment about " the great Felicity Smoak" had some venom to it!

[leopardprint]

4 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

 

Haha even without you giving a history on this reviewer I can feel the teeth gritting TV Echo.

That comment about " the great Felicity Smoak" had some venom to it!

 

Haha, talk about shade! At least it's something Oliver basically said himself though so it has support in canon.

[SmallScreenDiva]

You know, I was reading that yesterday and even though it sounded positive, I could feel the venom behind it and I immediately scrolled up and saw her byline and just burst out laughing. 

This is the part that made me go huh?!? "But much to fans' delight, Arrow actually found a nice groove in the wake of the Olicity breakup, with the series reminding fans that long before these two first hooked up, they were great as co-workers and friends." Fans have been complaining all season about how robotic they both have seemed, enough criticism that even Stephen himself used the word and promised the show would address it. 

[Guest]

I'm genuinely surprised by some of the reviews I've read. A lot of positivity for Olicity, even on sites that don't usually like them. I guess all they needed was a reminder of just how great O/F are together and that, sadly, wasn't really apparent during the break-up angst. 

It's kind of funny how many thought this would bury O/F for good and yet it's actually made fans like them again. LOL.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Guest

[leopardprint]

It really goes to show how catastrophically stupid the BMD storyline was because Oliver and Felicity just work together, very much the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. BMD just really threw the show off kilter by putting totally nonsensical obstacles between them. 

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Sadie Gennis must've been gritting her teeth when she wrote this article (you might recall that she said in a 2013 article that "Olicity should never happen" and then said in a 2017 article that, other than Oliver, BC is "the most important figure in the Green Arrow canon," and suggested that Black Siren could be redeemed and become the new BC)...

Is Arrow Setting the Stage for an Olicity Reunion?
By Sadie Gennis | May 4, 2017 2:14 PM EDT
http://www.tvguide.com/news/arrow-oliver-felicity/

She's going to need to go to the grocery store; I'm pretty sure she used up all the salt in the house writing that article.

[benteen]

Ah, canon.  Believe me, I like and appreciate canon but when you are doing a weekly TV show and reimagining a lot of elements, I don't mind going off in your own direction (ie Olicity).  Smallville seemed to embrace this for a while until they decided in the last seasons to try to line up to canon, no matter how contrived it was on the show.

[leopardprint]

I've never much followed comic books, certainly not DC, but Lois/Clark transcended comic books and were firmly established in pop culture generally. People barely heard of Green Arrow let alone Black Canary let alone GA/BC together as some iconic couple so I really do not understand why this deviation is that hard to accept. Also, comic book GA seems like such a gross, dated 60s/70s relic that would not work on a TV show today. 

[statsgirl]

I get the feeling that many of the people who idolize the comic canon of GA/BC didn't read much of the comic books themselves, and it's more about the idea of an "ordinary" female character who doesn't fight like a pseudo man becoming so important.

I applaud the new media giving more people a chance to become reviewers and spread their wings but it feels like there are a number of them who go in with pre-existing judgements and write to confirm them rather than look at the show objectively.

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ Review: “Underneath”
Nora Dominick   May 5, 2017
http://emertainmentmonthly.com/index.php/arrow-review-underneath/

Quote

With only four episodes left, Arrow gives fans a gripping “bottle episode” that utilizes the shows greatest strengths: Oliver (Stephen Amell) and Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards). When Prometheus (Josh Segarra) traps Felicity and Oliver in the Arrow bunker with time and air running out. Arrow’s latest episode entitled “Underneath” centers on the shows strongest characters in possibly the best character centered episode for the series.
*  *  *
Last season of Arrow was not the strongest. With the introduction of magic, the show stopped looking like itself. In order to compete with other superhero shows, meta humans and magic flooded into Oliver’s vigilante world and it wasn’t a good decision...

It’s safe to say that Arrow is a split fandom when it comes to Oliver and Felicity’s relationship. You either love them or you think they’ve ruined the show. This season, Arrow took a step back from Felicity and Oliver. They avoided each other in the bunker, were thrust into new relationships and frankly, didn’t feel like Felicity and Oliver. Ultimately, it proved detrimental to the show....
*  *  *
Once again, Amell and Rickards prove that they thrive in the small moments, but also the large one’s. A long awaited episode centered on Oliver and Felicity, Amell and Rickards fell right back in sync with each other. It’s hard to imagine two people that work better together than these two. Every time they share a scene, Arrow suddenly makes sense. This week’s Arrow episode not only featured Oliver and Felicity fighting for their lives in present day, but flashbacks revealed a surprise hook up in the Arrow bunker eleven months ago. In both timelines, Amell and Rickards prove why they work so effortlessly together.

If there is one thing Arrow has taught us, it’s that Emily Bett Rickards is a force to be reckoned with. With every scene she takes part in, she’s molding and creating the best version of her character. This week, Felicity must fight for her life, but also fight for Oliver to trust her. It’s a battle she’s been fighting since moment one. Oliver needs to learn to trust Felicity, not just Overwatch. Rickards brings her A-game as she allows Amell to shine in the major stunt sequences, but also the quiet moments.

Personally, the quiet moments are always Amell and Rickards strongest. Whether it’s a single tear down Oliver’s cheek as he tells Felicity he may enjoy killing, Oliver gently lowering Felicity down from the Salmon Ladder or even a tender hand hold when they make it out alive. It’s these moments that prove just how talented Amell and Rickards are. Alone they’re immeasurable talents, but together they create a spark that allows Arrow to have a weapon no other DCTV show has.

... Oliver literally carries Felicity on his back for most of the episode. It may not be the flashiest stunt Arrow has accomplished, but it packs the greatest heart wrenching punch. Oliver would rather suffer, exert himself and bleed out then leave Felicity. This is most apparent at the end of this harrowing hour when Felicity almost falls to her death. She begs Oliver to let her go, but with a single hand he hoists her back to safety. Amell and Rickards work tirelessly in this episode. While Green Arrow might not be running around in action, the stunt work this week is thought out and shows the true nature of each character.

Arrow may thrive in the flashy moments, but it’s episodes like these that make us realize why we love Arrow. It’s for the characters. The relationships that have been built and tested. It’s about seeing two actors making you feel like their characters are each other’s whole worlds. Felicity and Oliver do that on Arrow. While they don’t have to be romantically together to make a good show, Arrow shows its hand this week proving that Felicity and Oliver are better together than apart....

Edited May 5, 2017 by tv echo

[Trini]

28 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I get the feeling that many of the people who idolize the comic canon of GA/BC didn't read much of the comic books themselves, and it's more about the idea of an "ordinary" female character who doesn't fight like a pseudo man becoming so important.

It may not even be about that. Some are concerned about how one of the few prominent heroines in the DC-verse has been so horribly treated on the show. And also about 'fridging' women in general.

[tv echo]

Was Arrow Sex (Almost) Too Hot? Is NCIS Hero a Five-0 Killer? Did black-ish Spinoff Flunk? And More TV Qs!
By Vlada Gelman, Michael Ausiello, Matt Webb Mitovich, Dave Nemetz, Andy Swift, Ryan Schwartz, Charlie Mason and Rebecca Iannucci / May 5 2017, 11:01 AM PDT
http://tvline.com/2017/05/05/arrow-season-5-oliver-felicity-sex-scene-tv-questions-answers/

Quote

14 | When Arrow‘s Oliver forcefully turned Felicity around at the onset of their steamy bunker hookup, did you temporarily forget which channel the show is on? And if there’s anyone you believe could hold onto two dangling people with just one hand, isn’t it Dig with his mighty biceps?

[statsgirl]

25 minutes ago, Trini said:

It may not even be about that. Some are concerned about how one of the few prominent heroines in the DC-verse has been so horribly treated on the show. And also about 'fridging' women in general.

Whereas having Oliver repeatedly cheat on Black Canary and get pervy with younger women in the comics is the sign of his respect for her?  I also didn't see them get that upset when Sara was fridged so that Laurel could become the Black Canary.  Laurel getting killed by DD had nothing to do with Felicity, unlike Sara who was fridged for Laurel.

Was there this outrage when Superman moved on from Lois Lane to Wonder Woman?

Edited May 5, 2017 by statsgirl

[leopardprint]

18 hours ago, Trini said:

It may not even be about that. Some are concerned about how one of the few prominent heroines in the DC-verse has been so horribly treated on the show. And also about 'fridging' women in general.

But was the "horrible treatment" just that she's no longer the lead's LI? I agree her death was so, so, so, stupid but she did get some fairly prominent solo storylines, at least compared to the other characters that were not Oliver. Her death has nothing to do with Felicity, she was happily applauding at her engagement for goodness sake. 

Edited May 6, 2017 by leopardprint

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

It may not even be about that. Some are concerned about how one of the few prominent heroines in the DC-verse has been so horribly treated on the show. And also about 'fridging' women in general.

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, Shado, and Sara got fridged. Amanda Waller was was prominent character from the comics that got executed by a one-off villain. Thea's whole storyline in season 3 was her being used as a pawn to manipulate Merlyn and Oliver. Nyssa was forced to marry a man. Felicity got shot up and paralyzed. Yet not once did I see a sustained protest or #No[insert female character's name here]NoArrow by comic fans in response. In fact, when there was a modicum of protest about Sara's death, most LL/comic fans shrugged it off and fansplained that it had to happen, because LL was supposed to be the true BC. Those same fans have clogged Arrow's FB page and every show-related post mentioning Felicity with "Kill Felicity" since season 4. Same fans who call Dinah Drake the "fake" Canary and want her killed off so a "redeemed" BS can take her place on the team.

So no, I don't buy that their concern/anger about the show is because of anything but their own precious comic canon that they hold important above all else, and their fury over the show deciding to go in a different direction.

Edited May 5, 2017 by lemotomato

[Morrigan2575]

^^^^ ????????

[Starfish35]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

It may not even be about that. Some are concerned about how one of the few prominent heroines in the DC-verse has been so horribly treated on the show. And also about 'fridging' women in general.

You know, I get that.  But as others have said, the comics fans have sneered at the "fridging" argument up until Laurel died.  Complaints about how Shado, Moira, and Sara were treated were generally mocked.  

And as far as I'm concerned, Laurel was a terrible representation of the comics BC.   I don't have anything against the Black Canary of the comics.  I adore Sara and hope Dinah proves to be a good character.  But I don't believe that the show should be compelled to keep on a terrible character just because she has a comics name.  I sincerely wish that Laurel had been better cast/written from the beginning, but that didn't happen, so..... *shrug*  I still think getting rid of her was the best choice.  It just imo should have been done a lot sooner.   And frankly, I think if it had happened before she put on the suit, it wouldn't have created the fuss it did.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Starfish35

[Trini]

40 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

the comics fans

I think you all are overgeneralizing. Some viewers can be upset about the treatment of Laurel/Black Canary (AND the other female characters they killed off too) without it having anything to do with the comics. Not an either/or situation. Part of the point I was trying to make before.

[Starfish35]

What you said was:

4 hours ago, Trini said:

Some are concerned about how one of the few prominent heroines in the DC-verse has been so horribly treated on the show.

Which seems to imply that it has to do with the character's status in the comics, not simply her being a female character on the show.

And honestly, I agree with that in many ways.  I do think it's awful that the BC character has been handled so badly.  But I also think the casting and background setup of the Laurel character was where the mistakes were made, not in killing her off.  Or I should say, not THAT they killed her off.  Because they mangled the HOW of it rather badly, just like everything else with Laurel.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Starfish35
Clarification

[Primal Slayer]

3 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, Shado, and Sara got fridged. Amanda Waller was was prominent character from the comics that got executed by a one-off villain. Thea's whole storyline in season 3 was her being used as a pawn to manipulate Merlyn and Oliver. Nyssa was forced to marry a man. Felicity got shot up and paralyzed. Yet not once did I see a sustained protest or #No[insert female character's name here]NoArrow by comic fans in response. In fact, when there was a modicum of protest about Sara's death, most LL/comic fans shrugged it off and fansplained that it had to happen, because LL was supposed to be the true BC. Those same fans have clogged Arrow's FB page and every show-related post mentioning Felicity with "Kill Felicity" since season 4. Same fans who call Dinah Drake the "fake" Canary and want her killed off so a "redeemed" BS can take her place on the team.

So no, I don't buy that their concern/anger about the show is because of anything but their own precious comic canon that they hold important above all else, and their fury over the show deciding to go in a different direction.

This whole grouping comic fans into 1 lump sum is so old. There were plenty of "comic" fans who weren't impressed with what they did with Nyssa, there were plenty of "comic" fans who were pissed that they killed off Waller and there were plenty of "comic" fans who werent impressed with Sara's death and how it was handled. Lets not pretend if Felicity was killed off that we wouldn't see WWIII happen on twitter and call for the shows head yet not every "Felicity/Olicity" fan spoke up about any of those deaths, especially Laurels. Laurel has a fanbase that was pissed and they tweeted just their frustations. 

[statsgirl]

I was upset when Moira was killed off, and I thoroughly agreed with Celina Jade that what was the point of Shado dying if they were still fridging women. I hated when Sara was fridged, especially as it was Thea doing it.  I think Laurel should have died for her own sake, not to cost her father pain.

If they killed Felicity, I would be very, very upset.  But I would stop watching the show, not keep calling over and over for Laurel to be killed too.

[Chaser]

They grouped themselves. The comic community has a long history of gross sexism and misogyny. The worst parts of that community are the most vocal and the KC/LL fandom attached themselves to it as soon as they turned on Felicity. It didn't matter that they kept their tune as long as the changed their target. 

Edited May 6, 2017 by Chaser