The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[tv echo]

Arrow Review: Dangerous Liaisons (Season 5 Episode 19)
April 27, 2017  Lissete Lanuza Sáenz
http://www.telltaletv.com/2017/04/arrow-review-dangerous-liaisons-season-5-episode-19/

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Arrow Season 5 Episode 19 “Dangerous Liaisons” is, in many ways, a return to form for a show that had seemingly forgotten what form was, what worked and, more importantly, what the vast majority of its viewers wanted to see. It is also, very clearly, a prelude to what’s next.
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Even more importantly than that, though, the episode is a clear showcase for the best thing Arrow has come up with in its five seasons.

Felicity Smoak.

Arrow has always been more than a little obsessed with the vigilantes, the masks, the fights and the action sequences. It’s never truly pushed Felicity to the side because of it, but it’s also never truly given her the credit she deserves.

She is, after all, not wearing leather or kicking literal ass. She’s just a geek with a computer.
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The characters on this show are mostly a reimagining of comic-book characters, some sticking more closely to the source material, others just a familiar name with a very different personality. More often than not, to enjoy the show, I’ve had to put all my comic-book knowledge aside.

Not when it comes to Felicity Smoak.
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Sure, she existed once in the comics, a peripheral character few people probably remembered. Arrow plucked out a name and created a character that many fans, me included, could relate to.

They created a hero, one that felt much more tangible than the leather-wearing ones of my childhood. One that was funny and awkward and definitely not perfect.

And then, in season 5, they took her away from us.

Not physically, no. She’s still there and she is sometimes marginally funny, but she’s only a shell of her former self, her relationship with Oliver, with Diggle, even with Lyla, as superficial as if we were actually dealing with her comic-book counterpart.
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Almost like Felicity is the key to unlocking the good writing.

Because Oliver is suddenly Oliver, the patient, kind and well-meaning man who might not always has the answers, but who wants to do good.

Diggle is suddenly Diggle, the man who trusts Felicity implicitly, the friend who tells Oliver the truth, the husband who does not think the end justifies the means.

And the newbies – not an integral part of the story by any stretch of the imagination, don’t feel quite as useless as they’ve done before.

Where was this writing before? Is the mid-life crisis over? Is the good Arrow here to stay?
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Also, where’s the Sara picture? I know this is setup for the return of Black Siren, but it’s still lazy AF, Arrow.

Oliver, you didn’t let Felicity do anything. Same goes for you, Diggle. She’s a grown ass woman. Please start treating her like one.

Edited April 28, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Incidentally, Chris King (the writer of this review) is a guy - not that it should matter...

Arrow Season 5 Episode 19 Review: “Dangerous Liaisons” 
Chris King  April 26, 2017
http://www.tvovermind.com/the-cw/arrow/arrow-season-5-episode-19-review-dangerous-liaisons

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Well, that’s a hell of a way to kick off the final stretch of the season, isn’t it? Tonight’s spectacular episode of Arrow set the stage for a tense, thrilling, and emotional conclusion to Season 5, a season that has been, in my opinion, the show’s best since the unmatched Season 2. However, if the next four episodes of Arrow can reach the same incredible heights that “Dangerous Liaisons” hits, there’s a chance that Season 5 could match, if not surpass the quality of Arrow‘s outstanding second season. But in order to do that, the show is going to need to do what it does when it’s at its best and focus on the Holy Trinity of characters, the Big Three, the OTA: Oliver, Felicity, and Diggle.

The reason why “Dangerous Liaisons” is one of the best episodes of Season 5 is because it turns its attention over to Oliver, Felicity, and Diggle and allows the three of them to have meaningful interactions with one another. There are debates over morality and whether the ends justify the means, but none of it feels like surface-level superhero discussions and that’s all because it’s rooted in the deep, powerful history that that these three characters share.

Simply look at all the mentions and nods to the past in tonight’s episode if you need proof of that. When Diggle tells Oliver that the two of them know what grief can do to a person, he’s specifically referencing not just Laurel’s death but also Tommy’s and Moira’s and, of course, Andy’s. And when Felicity calls out Oliver for not having her back, for not supporting her actions like she has supported his throughout the five years she’s been a part of Team Arrow, it’s easy to remember the countless times that Felicity went along with Oliver’s more problematic plans or allowed him to use his less-than-ethical methods to take down villains that were threatening Star City.

But more importantly, what Felicity says in that final scene, and really what she and Oliver say to each other throughout the entirety of this episode, reminds us of how essential their relationship is to Arrow‘s DNA. What the two of them have can’t simply be defined as a romance; they’re not just like every other TV love story. As we’ve seen numerous times throughout Arrow‘s five seasons, Felicity Smoak has been and remains Oliver Queen’s conscience—she’s his most enthusiastic supporter and his harshest critic, the voice inside his head who constantly tells him that he can be better and do better, even when he keeps doubting himself.
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All of this is why Oliver and Felicity are finally at a place now in which they can believably reunite as a couple. While the two of them have always had magnificent chemistry and have always possessed the ability to make one another laugh or smile (just look at the grin on Oliver’s face after Felicity mentions that he’s finally using the front door of her apartment in tonight’s episode), they needed to reach a place of growth and maturity, a place in which they both could be sounding boards for each other, strong individuals that bring out the best in one another. That was there before in terms of Felicity always bringing the best out of Oliver, always inspiring him to be a true hero, someone that the people of Star City could look up to. But now that Oliver has confronted his demons, that he’s dealt with his original sin of being a killer for killing’s sake, he’s finally able to purge himself of the guilt and pain that restricted him before, that caused him to lie and keep secrets, which is the whole reason why Felicity broke off their engagement in the first place. Oliver is now ready and worthy to be a true partner to Felicity, and with next week’s episode, “Underneath,” centering on the two of them and featuring pretty much nothing but Oliver/Felicity scenes, I think he’ll be able to prove that to his former fiancée and put them on the path to their romantic reunion.

The Oliver/Felicity conflict in tonight’s Arrow is extremely well-written, but it also helps that Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards are fantastic throughout the hour, delivering what might be their best work since “Who Are You?” (another terrific episode that primarily focused on Oliver and Felicity—hmm, I’m sensing a pattern here). David Ramsey is also absolutely heartbreaking, as Diggle deals with the fact that Lyla, unlike Felicity, might not be able to be brought back from the darkness and that, despite how much he loves his wife, the two of them may never be able to resolve the problems that broke them up years ago. I’m still hopeful that Lyla’s turn here, as she begins to understand why Amanda Waller was the way she was, isn’t permanent and that she and Dig will be able to find a way to make it through this. However, whether the two of them can bounce back from these ARGUS-related issues or not, Diggle is going to need friends to lean on, and you better believe that it will be Oliver Queen and Felicity Smoak. Just like he’s been there for them throughout their years of up-and-down romance and emotional turmoil, they will do the same for him.
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Can we take a moment to acknowledge just how amazing of a scene that conversation between Oliver and Felicity in her apartment is? When she tells him that he no longer needs to carry the burden, that she can take it for him, that’s some powerful stuff. Seriously, if that’s not love, I don’t know what is.

Edited April 29, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

‘Arrow’ Review: “Dangerous Liaisons”
Nora Dominick  April 28, 2017
http://emertainmentmonthly.com/index.php/arrow-review-dangerous-liaisons/

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We all knew she would change Arrow. When Felicity Smoak arrived on the scene in season one, it was hard not to notice the potential of this character. While she began as just a recurring character, Felicity soon became a force to be reckoned with. Her hacking skills are unmatchable and she has become an essential asset to the team. And yet, Arrow seemed to forget her necessity in the beginning of season five. After her breakup with Oliver (Stephen Amell), Felicity was shoved into the box we all feared she would be shoved into: the ex-girlfriend box. Instead of watching this powerhouse woman take on bad guys alongside the team, she was pushed farther away from Oliver and into the arms of Billy Malone (Tyler Ritter). Felicity no longer resembled the season one character we fell in love with. Instead she was “just someone’s girlfriend.” 

For Felicity Smoak, season five of Arrow has been a struggle. Her boyfriend was killed by her ex-boyfriend for starters. But, the worst thing is that somehow Team Arrow still doesn’t realize how much of an asset she truly is. Even Arrow’s writing staff seemed to have forgotten about her. She hasn’t had a real storyline all season. This could be caused by Arrow’s aversion to “Olicity” up until these last five episodes. Felicity somehow got lost in a sea of new characters and bolder storylines. Now with five episodes left, Arrow has plucked their starring female from the background and dropped her right in the forefront. The smartest move the show could make right now.
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There are several small moments this week that allow Felicity to shine, however the overall episode truly shows the stellar abilities of Emily Bett Rickards. Arguably the breakout star of Arrow, Rickards has transformed Felicity time and time again. From a goth hacker from MIT to IT Girl to a bonafide superhero, Rickards has been able to take her character to places we couldn’t have imagined. Over five seasons not only has Felicity grown as a character, but Rickards has grown as an actress. In this episode, Rickards has the chance to play a side to Felicity we never thought we’d see. The side that disagrees wholeheartedly with Oliver. Felicity’s actions lead to some of Arrow’s best performances and character arcs in season five.
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After months of being pushed apart by storylines, Oliver and Felicity finally come face to face, but this time they’re on different sides. Felicity stands with Helix while Oliver stands against them. It’s an enticing storyline, which leads to some incredible acting from Rickards and Amell. While “Olicity” might not be together right now, there’s no denying the chemistry between Amell and Rickards. Whenever the two of them are in a scene together, everything else stops, audiences hold their breathe as they work. This week’s episode has several crucial “Olicity” moments that have audiences on the edge of their seats. From Oliver going to Felicity’s apartment begging her to stand down to Felicity looking Oliver right in the eyes and putting up a laser shield.

The moments between Amell and Rickards remind us why we keep coming back to Arrow. While their relationship is something we love, we enjoyed Felicity and Oliver together way before they were romantically involved. One downside to Arrow this season, is they forgot or thought we couldn’t handle Felicity and Oliver being just friends. It was a detriment to some storylines that could’ve had poignant moments if they had scenes together. Alone Amell and Rickards are strong, but together they’re a force to be reckoned with and Arrow’s strongest weapon.

Edited April 28, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow Season 5 Episode 19 Review: Dangerous Liaisons
Tyler McCarthy   Apr 26, 2017
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/arrow/264236/arrow-season-5-episode-19-review-dangerous-liaisons

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Now, for any other character, this would mean going on a spree of punching bad guys a little too hard until results were yielded. Sadly for the team, Felicity is smarter than all of them and her crisis of faith tantrums manifest themselves in large-scale battles against the government and A.R.G.U.S.
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Obviously A.R.G.U.S. has always been helpful to Team Arrow, especially given that it’s run by Diggle’s on-again-off-again wife, so this puts the team in a tricky situation. Felicity believes that everyone else has gone above and beyond and done way darker things than hacking to take down big bads like Malcolm Merlyn, Slade Wilson, Ra’s al Ghul, and Damien Darhk. She’s not wrong, and she does have the whole “ability versus responsibility” thing to contend with given her skills. Long story short, it became Team Arrow going up against Felicity and Helix. It was jarring to see our hero, who began as the petite blonde that Oliver made eyes at in her cubicle, was now dressed in all black with femme fatale makeup leading a group of people who know how to make guns do that scary cocking noise. It was an incredibly different look for her, and it was really exciting to see, albeit a little unearned. If we’re all being honest with ourselves, Felicity goes really rogue way too fast.

Despite everyone’s best efforts, the super hacker wins and allows her cohorts to make off with the prisoner. To thank her, Helix freezes her out of the group. Fans can only hope that Helix returns sooner rather than later, otherwise this entire run feels a lot like plot magic, granted to the characters in order to move an ailing story along. In any case, Felicity’s bold efforts got them the software that they need to track Chase, and before I get into that explosive reveal (nailed it), I think it’s important to talk about the larger issue that’s keeping this from being one of the coolest twists in Arrow history… Is Chase worth it?
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If a character as pure as Felicity is going to go through the ringer like this and flirt with villainy, shouldn’t it have been for the guy who murdered Oliver’s mother? Perhaps the man who can use literal freaking magic? Instead, she breaks ties with everyone she knows and loves over a man who took some MMA lessons between study sessions at law school.

Overall, this wasn’t the best episode, mostly because it lacked some solid blue collar beat downs. Instead, it traded off for a rather successful effort to bring drama and tension between characters that have pretty much been through every reasonable storyline at this point. While it did feel like the Felicity twist would be better served at a different point in the show’s history, fans shouldn’t let that diminish how interesting it ended up being to see our smartest, purest and, in my humble opinion, best hero be on the wrong end of a warehouse encounter.

Edited April 29, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Arrow 5x19 Review: “Dangerous Liaisons” (Team Arrow vs. Team Helix)
Just About Write   April 27, 2017
http://www.itsjustaboutwrite.com/2017/04/arrow-5x19-review-dangerous-liaisons.html

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The thing is, “Dangerous Liaison” works because it makes compelling arguments for both sides of this Oliver/Felicity debate. Typically, I’ll unequivocally side with Felicity Smoak. Generally she makes the most logical sense and is able to smack the stupid out of Oliver. But this week, I was surprised to find myself able to rationalize both characters’ decisions. Oliver clearly loves Felicity and always will. And beyond the surface-level frustration he had with Felicity keeping secrets, he’s just flat-out worried about her. And not, thankfully, in a patronizing way (though I could do without Oliver and Diggle thinking it’s their job to tell Felicity what she can and cannot do). It stems from a place of genuine concern. In a heartbeat, Oliver would sacrifice his soul for the sake of Felicity’s. And he has done that, multiple times.

Now Felicity wants to do that for him.

She’s willing to taint her soul a little darker if it means putting an end to the man who has caused so much darkness. I haven’t been entirely on board the Oliver/Felicity train since last season, but this episode might have helped me turn a corner. I enjoy watching Oliver and Felicity team up, but I like it even more when they’re at odds and have to figure out their relationship. Conflict like this is entirely organic, and is what the show would have been doing all along. Felicity tells Oliver that because he gave up so much for her, she needs to do this — for herself, and for him.

But Oliver can’t fathom a world in which Felicity goes dark so he tells her that he can’t let her darken her soul even a little bit for his sake. It’s then that the two are officially at odds, and Felicity informs Oliver that he’s going to have to stop her. Again: I love this! I love the fact that Felicity and Oliver are both sort of wrong and also sort of right. It makes taking sides nearly impossible, and rounds out the characters — this conflict illuminates characteristics that are fundamental in both of these characters. Felicity is, at her core, someone who fights for what she wants and the people she loves. But she’s also a character who is completely underestimated by nearly everyone in her life.

That’s why Helix was so important to Felicity — it gave her purpose in a time in which her life felt directionless. And she was adored by the people there. Alena made Felicity feel competent and needed. Because for as much as she is confident, Felicity is also still broken inside: from Oliver’s betrayal and Billy’s death and Laurel’ death and… oh, right. Did we all forget that Felicity is also still technically paralyzed? Without her tech (as we saw in the promo for next week’s episode), she has to return to the pain and frustration she experienced back then — all of it. She has to relive the moment she found out she was paralyzed over and over again.

So maybe this is the little bit of control that Felicity has left in her life and is latching onto it and intent on not letting go. For once, Felicity is in charge of her own fate and not letting things just happen to her or the team. If she can find and stop Adrian Chase — if she can be a part of that — then she has some semblance of control in her life. And while Oliver tries to understand, he can’t support her. He can’t watch the woman he loves turn into someone else (something else) and stand idly by.

Apart from their conversation in the loft, I think the most telling moment is when Felicity constructs a literal wall of lasers between herself and Oliver. Helix manages to extract Cayden James and in the ensuing chase between Team Arrow and Team Helix, Felicity finds herself at a crossroads. She instructs Alena and the rest of the team to drive Cayden away, and to prevent Oliver from following, she arms the laser wall. It’s the first moment in a long time when we’ve seen a physical manifestation of a personal conflict. There have been walls up between these two for so long that it’s hard to remember a time when they were completely and utterly vulnerable with each other. But in this scene, there is literally a wall between them — and it’s a dangerous one. Felicity doesn’t want to hurt Oliver and vice versa, but it doesn’t matter that Oliver was never physically hurt by the lasers; he was hurt by Felicity’s actions.

Again, I think this conflict works so well because the show has refused to paint either party as totally right and Oliver’s concerns stem from a genuine tension of wanting to prevent Felicity from going dark but also realizing he can’t control her. That shows some hefty growth on Oliver’s part. I think that understanding where each character has been, separately, and where they’ve been as a couple helps enforce to me how genuinely in-character their responses are in this episode. Everything felt organic about their debate and about Felicity’s earnestness to help alleviate some of the pressure on Oliver’s soul. While I do think part of that is genuine, I think the layers of complexity in her desire to catch Chase will come to a head in next week’s episode. Felicity might be convincing herself of the reasoning she wants to catch Chase, but there’s a lot more beneath the surface and it has to do with everything that has happened in her life in the last year or so.

Edited April 29, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Allison Brennan and Lavinia Kent analyze 'Arrow' season 5, episode 19, ‘Dangerous Liaisons’: Some explosive developments
April 28, 2017
http://happyeverafter.usatoday.com/2017/04/28/allison-brennan-lavinia-kent-recap-arrow-season-5-episode-19-dangerous-liaisons/

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LK: ... I found the subtle changes in Lyla’s character intriguing. They really worked for me. She’s always put ARGUS first, and it’s easy to see how she could slowly move into a world that is grayer and grayer instead of black and white. (And she has fabulous shoes.)

AB: I love Lyla. And the best part of this subplot is that they are BOTH right … and wrong. I love morally complex situations where no decision is 100% good or 100% evil. Lyla is a fabulous character. She always has been, but she has really come into her own here as head of ARGUS. While I don’t agree with some of her methods, I completely understand them.
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Oliver tells Felicity that she is willing to do whatever it takes to stop Chase because Oliver was willing to do whatever it took to save the city and created him. He respects that, but says she can’t do it. That it has taken a toll on him, and what he has sacrificed to do it. Felicity counters that she fell in love with him because he was always willing to do what is right no matter what the cost, and that he no longer has to carry that burden alone. She asks him to let her do this. He says he can’t. She says, “You’ll have to stop me.” And walks away.

This scene took four minutes, but I watched it three times because it was very powerful. The line was drawn in the sand, and Oliver I think also realized at that moment (because he lives for feeling guilty about the decisions others make because of him) that he created Felicity as well. (Though, not really because she was a hacker before she met him.)
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LK: I think that scene of Oliver and Felicity talking was one of my favorites of the episode. The pain of their still caring for each other was so bare to see. They were both hurting, both wanting to help the other, and both helpless to move away from their own beliefs, beliefs that have reversed over the years. Oliver has become the voice of reason as Felicity argues for doing whatever is necessary.

Edited April 29, 2017 by tv echo

[Primal Slayer]

Arrow makes it to #7/17 of Berlantis best shows

Just as Oliver Queen questions his own destiny, Arrow is not always sure what kind of show it wants to be — and its inconsistent tone may be partly to blame for Season 5’s low ratings. But the CW drama (which has already been renewed for Season 6) has also carved out a mighty passionate fanbase; in fact, Merriam-Webster might want to consider adding “Olicity” to the dictionary at this point.

http://tvline.com/gallery/greg-berlanti-shows-ranked

[tv echo]

Agents of GEEK Podcast Episode 71
Craig Wack & Tatiana Torres 04/29/2017
http://agentsofgeekpodcast.com/wordpress/

-- Craig had a problem with 519 taking a break from the Prometheus main plot because he thinks that Chase is one of the best Arrow villains ever. Tatiana disagreed and really loved 519. She said that it wasn't like episodes earlier in the season where they weren't dealing with Prometheus at all and that the team was still searching for Chase in this episode. Craig understood that they had to deal with Helix and wrap that up, but he  was bothered by how they made it seem like Felicity had to betray the team and yet the episode "kept giving her outs so that she had the moral high ground." Tatiana disagreed and said that, although Felicity had the moral high ground with respect to ARGUS, in the end she was more on a "moral plateau" because she was doing what Oliver did before. So now she and Oliver are both kind of on a "low moral plateau," whereas before Felicity "could always pull the moral card."

-- Tatiana also mentioned EP interviews and said that Felicity & Oliver will now better understand each other's positions and some of the issues that led to their breakup. 

-- Craig said that "they kept undermining ARGUS," but Tatiana said that ARGUS was "always evil" and that it wasn't just Amanda Waller who did the bad things.

-- Craig also noted that, given Diggle's military background, Diggle shouldn't have been surprised that "a morally grey organization [like ARGUS] was doing something morally grey." Tatiana said that it was really them doing something "morally black" (like black ops stuff).

-- Craig liked "Temporary Canary" and Tatiana said that "she is so good compared to what came before."

-- Craig noted that the Jabberwockies were a way of keeping track of who was on which team - Helix guys wore the white masks, while ARGUS guys didn't.

-- Craig said that Felicity was "doing all of this for the right reasons." She wants to get Chase and she also wants to do it for her dead boyfriend.

-- Tatiana said that Felicity is also doing it for Oliver.  Tatiana also said that she (Tatiana) is "never giving up on the Olicity thing" and that now she's "been given a taste of it again," she "never wants to be done with it."

-- They talked about the ending of 519. Craig joked, "And the call's coming from inside the house!" Tatiana joked that Chase got into the lair because "they have the worst security in the world." Craig added that everyone can get into the lair.

-- Tatiana noted that Chase has gone after everyone but Felicity. So she thought that maybe this was his move against her, since it looks like Felicity's chip is disabled next week.

-- Tatiana liked that, even though the show is still dark and has consequences (unlike other CW shows), it's not so dark as to be depressing. Although people were arguing, it wasn't like "everyone hates each other and everyone is sad... whatever."

-- Craig thought that the story with Wild Dog and Lance was "fun and... very touching." Tatiana thought that Wild Dog calling Lance "Hoss" was "so sweet." 

-- Craig wanted to see Chase "cause more havoc" than the one scene in the arcade and the ending scene.

Edited April 30, 2017 by tv echo

[Mellowyellow]

Where did the Craig guy pluck the "Felicity is doing this for her dead bf" thing from????

Billy was NEVER mentioned in this ep and she flat out told Oliver she wanted to carry HIS burden!!!!

Seriously what show was that dude watching????

[way2interested]

8 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Where did the Craig guy pluck the "Felicity is doing this for her dead bf" thing from????

Because WM and MG have been saying that for the past few months also despite it never really being mentioned in the narrative, although in 519 they did mention the idea of mourning making you do rash things right before Felicity gave her real reasoning to Oliver.

[Morrigan2575]

I find it hard to believe that Billy doesn't factor into her actions. I get shippers want to pretend Billy doesn't matter but, Felicity cared about him. Of course he's a factor in her drive to take down Chase.

[tv echo]

Natalie Abrams and Kyle Anderson reviewed Arrow 519 (they also talked about the latest episodes of Flash and Supergirl)...

Entertainment Weekly - Superhero Insider 4.27
April 28, 2017
https://soundcloud.com/ewradio/superhero-insider-427

-- Kyle thought that the moment when Felicity "chooses Helix" and "throws up the laser wall" between her and Oliver was "gut-wrenching." He was not prepared for her "betrayal."

-- Natalie brought up the earlier scene where Felicity tells Oliver that he's sacrificed so much already and that it's her turn to do it now: "I thought that was some of Emily Bett Rickards' best work this season... That scene was incredible."  Kyle: "Oh absolutely... The scene didn't pick a side." He added: "On the one hand, Oliver knows what those decisions do to a person's soul, [and since] he's been down that road before, he knows it's something that he can handle."  But "on the other side, there's something kind of heroic about Felicity saying, 'no, this is my turn, this is something I can do, and I'm trying to... not only save the city, but save you.'" Kyle loved that "both of those perspectives make sense and can be looked at as heroic." He said that usually those type of scenes are clear as to which side is right, but that scene made him think that both characters made "a reasonable point."

-- Natalie said that everything Felicity's done this season "has led up to this point" and that Helix has been playing her. So once they got Cayden James back, they cut her off. She also reminded Kyle that she's said from the beginning that Alena was a "killer."

-- Kyle noted that there were no flashbacks during this episode.

-- They also brought up the Rene/Lance subplot and questioned the timing of Rene getting his daughter back now when he's a vigilante.

-- They also discussed the Diggle/Lyla marital problems. Natalie mentioned the Diggle/Tinah chemistry and said: "Well, when I asked Wendy Mericle about it,

 

Wendy was like, that was purely just the result of great chemistry between two great actors working off of each other. But she says she's not ruling it out in the future."

-- Natalie noted that Diggle questioned what Lyla was doing, while Oliver questioned what Felicity was doing, even though Diggle and Oliver have done such questionable things over the past five seasons. She "really enjoyed that storyline."

-- Kyle asked Natalie which version of the Curtis/Felicity teamup name did she prefer: TerrificWatch or OverTerrific.  Natalie said, "TerrificWatch."

-- They talked about Cayden James. Natalie said that the name wasn't an anagram because she tried to figure it out and just came up with crazy words. But she thought that they just hadn't cast the role yet and that Helix will likely return next season.

Edited April 30, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

No real spoilers...

Wingman Wednesday - ECHO KELLUM
by Trunkprc  on April 28, 2017
http://openthetrunk.com/kellum/

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TrunkSpace: We know you probably can’t give away too much with how the current season winds down, but is it safe to say that you’ll be back next year as a part of season 6?
Kellum: You know, they keep telling me I will, but you never know. (Laughter) It’s like, “I’m back!” and then dead on episode 2. You’re like, “Nooooooo! Why?!?!” (Laughter)

TrunkSpace: We’d imagine it can be pretty intimidating stepping into a show that already has an established on-set atmosphere and tone. How long did it take for you to feel at home and a part of the “Arrow” family?
Kellum: If I’m being honest, like the first day I walked on the set, I felt so at home and at ease and that was mainly because of Emily Bett Rickards. And then meeting all of the other actors and everybody involved with the show… they really did make it so easy and seamless and just a wonderful experience to be a part of. They treat you like one of their own and when I became one of their own, it felt so right. They treat every guest star, every recurring character… they treat with such respect and class and humility. It really just makes you feel welcome
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TrunkSpace: You mentioned that fans were still trying to figure Curtis out and connect with him. Were you comfortable stepping into this world where people are already so attached to these characters as lifelong fans and as such… particularly in the social media age… aren’t afraid to speak their minds?
Kellum: Oh yeah. They’re my people. (Laughter) I know how they can be. I think when it all boils down to it, mostly everything you see is positivity. When you’re fortunate enough to be in a position that any of us are in while in this industry to work on a hit show or a show that people are passionate about, you’re going to get both ends of the spectrum from everyone. It’s just how it works. And if we weren’t in that position we’d be getting zero ends of the spectrum from no one. You just have to be thankful that you’re working out there and living your dream, doing the best you can, and getting paid pretty good to do it. So for me, it’s definitely a thing where you’ve got to take it all in and be thankful for the good love that’s coming in and learn from the negativity that’s coming in and just keep pushing forward.

TrunkSpace: Is there anything in your life, either growing up or now, where you could relate to that passionate comic book fanbase? Is there something that you were drawn to in that same passionate way?
Kellum: For me, definitely anything in the X-Men realm as far as comics go, but really it was video games. For me, video games were my life saver. Video games were the things that I geeked out the most about as a fanboy. I was definitely tough when they would make different adaptations of video games to movies. I’d be like, “What the heck… why isn’t this great?” (Laughter) So I can definitely understand some of the hate. If I would have had Twitter then, I might have let a couple of actors know it. (Laughter)

So I can definitely understand the passion, but the thing is, if you don’t have passionate people about it, it’s not a popular project and you’re probably going to be canceled.

Edited April 30, 2017 by tv echo

[tangerine95]

I do think Billy has to do with it in the sense Prometheus tricked Oliver to kill an innocent guy she was dating and it's further incentive for Felicity to believe he must be stopped as soon as possible.But when they try to sell that its over Billy it tends to create this idea that she's so overcome by grief and the need for revenge and that's why she's doing it and that's not my impression at all.

[insomniadreams88]

I think the problem is that they've never had Felicity say it's about Billy. Instead, we get things like Diggle saying it's out of grief. Yes, he had to have been a factor, but there's also the problem that there's a long list of things that led to this and they're pretending most of those things never happened. 

[BkWurm1]

Yeah, Billy should be on the list but it's a LONG list.  And even then Felicity's sadness that a nice guy she liked was killed is probably overshadowed by guilt that maybe him being with her contributed to why he died, not to mention if she looks back and sees that maybe they shouldn't have been together (if it was not real).  There's a lot of motivations that could be explored with Billy's death that was just ignored. But the same could be said for Havenrock, her father leaving again,  the break up and all the other cumulative trauma of the last five years.  It's interesting though in 519 that her being sad or angry about Billy's death is only a background detail while the show really focuses on her motives based on what Oliver means to her.  

Really, if there was any doubt of the show's stance on Olicity, this would convince me they are very much still on board.  Otherwise this would all have been about Billy in every line.  

[insomniadreams88]

And you could also argue that Felicity might have ended up here even if Billy hadn't been killed. She didn't go looking for an organization like Helix because of his death. She found them when she was looking for a way to get Diggle out of prison. And then, yes, she used Helix for Prometheus-related things, but who's to say she wouldn't have even with Billy alive? 

[leopardprint]

I think it should have been mentioned more that Billy was part of it. Maybe this is just me engaging in mental contortions but she was in a relationship with Billy for a reason and in the little we saw of him, he seemed like a decent, kind person without ulterior motives (Susan). Even if it was primarily to keep away from Oliver, it would make sense that she at least valued him as a friend and would feel bad that he died as she would if Rene or Curtis or Rory died in those same circumstances. She did rejoin the team after Laurel died, so it's in character. Also, that Prometheus specifically used Billy because of his connection to her. 

So if Billy had to exist at all, they should have given him greater weight in Felicity's overcast spiral, it would have made way more sense as the final straw in addition to Havenrock, broken heart, paralysis...etc.

Actually, it's really weird how Oliver killing Billy was barely mentioned again except as poor Oliver forced to kill Billy. He did not murder him but he did kill him, he really should have felt worse about it. Ultimately, it's very obvious that Billy existed only in service to Oliver's storylines and Felicity was just the narrative method to get him in place. 

ETA: I also thought it was weird that Prometheus didn't bring up Oliver killing an innocent police officer in 5x17 and Felicity's boyfriend. (Unless he did and I erased it from my mind)

Edited April 30, 2017 by leopardprint

[insomniadreams88]

7 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Actually, it's really weird how Oliver killing Billy was barely mentioned again except as poor Oliver forced to kill Billy. He did not murder him but he did kill him, he really should have felt worse about it. Ultimately, it's very obvious that Billy existed only in service to Oliver's storylines and Felicity was just the narrative method to get him in place. 

ETA: I also thought it was weird that Prometheus didn't bring up Oliver killing an innocent police officer in 5x17 and Felicity's boyfriend. (Unless he did and I erased it from my mind)

I don't think Chase brought up Billy at all in 517. 

And yeah, when they filled Lance in on Billy, not once was it mentioned that Felicity had been dating him. (Especially when suddenly blaming Billy was an actual suggestion said in-show.) It's been all about Oliver when it comes to Billy except for a line here and there about Felicity's grief everyone is saying she's motivated by. 

[leopardprint]

I would think killing an innocent person important to your friend because you decided to go into rash attack mode would have been the perfect catalyst to get Oliver to say he's an unrepentant killer, like I actually thought that's why they set it up that way, but then nothing.

I guess it was just to make Chase look extra evil and kick off his evil chess game. 

As usual, Arrow snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. 

Edited April 30, 2017 by leopardprint

[tv echo]

No spoilers...

Arrow: Michael Rowe Wants Deadshot To Lead Diggle Down A Darker Path
Jamie Lovett- 05/01/2017
http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/05/01/arrow-deadshot-return-diggle/

Quote

Michael Rowe, the actor who plays Deadshot on The CW’s Arrow, would like to see his character return to the series and lead Diggle, one of Oliver Queen’s closest allies, down a darker path.

Rowe revealed this during a panel at Planet Comiccon Kansas City, according to ComicBook.com reader Michael Leslie who was in attendance. Rowe said that he believed Deadshot had earned Diggle’s trust before he died and that he’d like to “draw Diggle down a darker path.”

At his booth later, Rowe said that he believed Deadshot and Diggle’s stories were “very similar at this point,” primarily in relation to the death of Diggle’s brother. He also believes tempting Diggle could spark a new conflict with Oliver. “And I don’t think [Deadshot] has a beef with Arrow, but [he] could have one if he gets Diggle going down a darker path,” Rowe said.

Deadshot died in an explosion but later haunted Diggle as a hallucination. If Rowe were to return to Arrow, he could continue corrupting Diggle as a vision in Diggle’s own mind. Alternatively, Arrow is a superhero show, meaning an actual return from the dead isn’t out of the question.

Edited May 1, 2017 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

48 minutes ago, tv echo said:

No spoilers...

Arrow: Michael Rowe Wants Deadshot To Lead Diggle Down A Darker Path
Jamie Lovett- 05/01/2017
http://comicbook.com/dc/2017/05/01/arrow-deadshot-return-diggle/

I do wish the show had done a bit more explaining as to why Diggle was hallucinating.  Even Oliver for all his trauma usually has another trigger explanation for his hallucinations.  Like meds or exahution or recent blows to the head.  

[tv echo]

Nice new interview with JH (no real spoilers)...

Is Juliana Harkavy 'Arrow's' Newest Black Canary?
Posted May 1, 2017 by Scott Huver
https://www.moviefone.com/2017/05/01/is-juliana-harkavy-arrows-newest-black-canary/

Quote

Moviefone: I know you have secrets to protect, but tell me what you're able to tell me; give me a little tease into the next couple of weeks, for Dinah in particular, on "Arrow."
Juliana Harkavy: I think Dinah's theme for this season is that she's finding her place, and she's settling in, and she's becoming stronger and better as she works with the team. So that's just going to keep happening.
She's going to be able to use her power more and more, because she's training, she has Curtis and Felicity, all of these technical people there who are helping her in every way, and then you have her training physically, so she's just going to keep getting stronger, and help the team -- just keep helping out the team.

It's interesting, because there are certainly indicators that Dinah's going to go a certain place and perhaps assume a certain superhero identity -- Black Canary -- but she's not there yet.
No. It's taking her some time. I think she's still learning. She's still becoming a part of the team and finding her footing. I think that she also knows, Dinah knows that, again, she's familiar with loss. The team just lost Laurel in a big way, and they're dealing with that, and she doesn't want to fill her shoes, and she's empathetic towards what they're going through.
So if it happens, I think it's going to take some time, and I think that it should take time. I don't think it's something that should just kind of fall into her lap. She's developing her strength in all areas.
*  *  *
Tell me a little bit about getting the part. What they told you when they first approached you, and what you kind of had to wrap your head around as far as playing Dinah. What was that process like getting on the show?
For the audition, they didn't tell me that the character would be Dinah, and they didn't really give me any information other than, she's a vigilante and she's a badass. That was pretty much it. Then they gave me two really great scenes to audition with.

I kind of appreciate that now, because I think if I had known at the time, it would have just been a lot of pressure that would have made it difficult to maybe perform. Yeah, I found out after I booked the role. They sort of had a "Okay, sit down -- we have something to tell you" phone call, and they told me, and it was amazing. It was really exciting.

How badass-ready were you when the part came your way? Were you already pretty well-trained, or did you really have to hit the gym and take some classes to be able to pull off the physicality?
I felt ready enough that I knew I had some physical background. I had been going to the gym a lot, and I did feel prepared. I felt strong when I began. I was still only at about 60%. When I came in, they really gave me a trainer, and they really took it seriously, and helped me get on track with my fitness. I felt confident, but then I got here and they really helped me get to the point I needed to be at.
*  *  *
I've had some funny talks with your producers in the past about you poor actors, those of you who have powers, trying to figure out how to act out your powers moments. Tell me about figuring out how you were going to pull of on camera the sonic canary cry.
Every time that I have to do a cry, I really tried to focus, and I really tried to have it come from a place of her pain, and her personal struggle, I think that's what the fuel is behind that scream. That's what she was experiencing at the moment that she got the power.

So I tried to sort of like really just put my heart into it, and not just make it a physical thing, but put all of her pain, and like all of her power into that scream. So that's usually what I'm thinking about when I'm doing it.

What was your way into her, emotionally as a character? What did you key in on once you knew you had the part?
This moment where she sort of became a meta, and was when she experienced a terrible tragedy and lost the love of her life, and lost her partner, and he was shot right in front of her. That's something that just made me sort of open my heart to her right away.

And I also had recently lost a very dear friend, so I was also dealing with my own mourning, and my own loss, and I was able to, especially that 511 episode where you actually see the flashback, and you see her dealing with that, I was able to really use it in my own life, and connect with her, and find this common ground.

Tell me about working with your fellow actors, the members of Team Arrow. Is Stephen Amell the quarterback for the team among the actors, as well as on screen?
He is, yeah. He really is. Stephen is an incredible leader in everything that he does. I think that's sort of just in his nature. He's efficient, he's smart, he's aware of sort of everything that's going on at once, beyond just what he's focusing on in that moment. It's a gift that I think he has.

I definitely look up to him as a leader while we're shooting. I think the rest of the cast does, too. He sets the precedent for the rest of the show. Absolutely, yeah. Stephen is definitely our quarterback.

Edited May 2, 2017 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, tv echo said:

*  *  *
I've had some funny talks with your producers in the past about you poor actors, those of you who have powers, trying to figure out how to act out your powers moments. Tell me about figuring out how you were going to pull of on camera the sonic canary cry.
Every time that I have to do a cry, I really tried to focus, and I really tried to have it come from a place of her pain, and her personal struggle, I think that's what the fuel is behind that scream. That's what she was experiencing at the moment that she got the power.

So I tried to sort of like really just put my heart into it, and not just make it a physical thing, but put all of her pain, and like all of her power into that scream. So that's usually what I'm thinking about when I'm doing it.

Whatever she's doing is working.  I hate the sound of the scream (really, really hate it), but I've yet to be embarrassed while watching her perform it like I nearly always was with Laurel.  

[tv echo]

I was taken aback when JH referred to Tinah's dead partner as "the love of her life." I'm assuming this is just her head canon and not anything that was told to her by the EPs. It seemed like an extreme description.

[ohjoy]

Just happy to hear it's not somebody who's currently alive and dating someone else. ;-p

Although seriously, if I never hear that phrase again from an actor on this show it'll be too soon.

[Delphi]

17 minutes ago, RandomMe said:

Just happy to hear it's not somebody who's currently alive and dating someone else. ;-p

Although seriously, if I never hear that phrase again from an actor on this show it'll be too soon.

Just you wait till next season. 

 

Dinah, as she gets up to get a cup of coffee for no logical reason,  "I'm really glad that you found Lyla, and I hope you find your way back to her. And Diggle, I know that I am not the love of your life, but you will always be the love of mine."

[way2interested]

Just now, Delphi said:

Just you wait till next season. 

 

Dinah, as she gets up to get a cup of coffee for no logical reason,  "I'm really glad that you found Lyla, and I hope you find your way back to her. And Diggle, I know that I am not the love of your life, but you will always be the love of mine."

Ha, so instead of Diggle being Oliver "five years from now," he'll be Oliver "two years ago"?

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

I was taken aback when JH referred to Tinah's dead partner as "the love of her life." I'm assuming this is just her head canon and not anything that was told to her by the EPs. It seemed like an extreme description.

I don't see why it can't be true. I think they established it in that episode that showed her backstory that they were a couple. Would add another layer of conflict if/when he returns a meta and/or a villain. 

[wonderwall]

7 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Whatever she's doing is working.  I hate the sound of the scream (really, really hate it), but I've yet to be embarrassed while watching her perform it like I nearly always was with Laurel.  

It's nice to see her actually put genuine thought into her character and actions and not just be about copying the sister or talk about love lives, and looking good etc. 

Hopefully Juliana can make her character more 3 dimensional and dynamic through her acting as EBR does. 

Edited May 3, 2017 by wonderwall

[Primal Slayer]

I like Juliana and am glad that she is finally getting her big moment in her career. Can't wait to see how she and Katie play off each other. 

[Cleanqueen]

I hope they let her shine next year, sucks that she has to play scenes against a mediocre villain but at least she gets to have something of her own.

[tv echo]

No spoilers...

Harkavy Sings About Her Arrow Future, As Black Canary or Otherwise
by Scott Huver  May 3, 2017
http://www.cbr.com/interview-juliana-harkavy-arrow-black-canary/

Quote

CBR: Whether Dinah ends up becoming the new Black Canary or assumes another identity on Team Arrow, are you looking forward to that first time you get to slip on a superhero costume?
Juliana Harkavy: Oh, yeah! I get so jealous because they all look so cool in their costumes. They just look so awesome. They look like real superheroes. I would love to have one on. I think it would be so much fun.

Once you got the sense of where she was going, and that she may end up as Black Canary, did you do some digging and do some research as to that character from the comics to see what you might be able to take a little inspiration from?
I did. I did a little digging. I want to really go back and read all of the comics and be really well-versed. But what I found was really fun, just little anecdotes, little tidbits that I think about and that help me with her character – like, in the comics, Black Canary was in a band. I’m a musical person in my life, and I think that’s an awesome connection that she has. I use that, and little things like that. Little elements from the original.
*  *  *
At this stage of the game in Hollywood, every actor looking for a fun, high-profile role has got to be somewhat conversant in the world of comic books and graphic novels. You’ve certainly had that experience more than once. Did you have a familiarity at any point prior to the necessity of knowing these things to get work? Or are you discovering that art form?
That’s a cool question. I’m really discovering it, I am. I’ve been a fan of comics, but I’ve never been like a diehard like, I’ve never really owned a bunch of comics or anything. But I’ve always been drawn to them, and read them.

There’s something about them that I love. It’s such a simple and effective way of communicating so much in a comic. You don’t have many words, but they really say a lot. That’s a fascinating concept to translate on to screen. I’m really drawn to it. I don’t know. There’s something about the comic book genre that I think is so cool, and artsy, and unique. It’s not like anything else.

Yeah, I think maybe that is why I keep sort of falling into it. There’s just something there I’m really drawn to. Also, the history is cool. You really have a following and a history in these characters, so you can bring them to life, and then go back and look at these really old pictures of the character. It’s just so cool.
*  *  *
What’s been fun about when you’ve had a chance – either on social media, when people have recognized you, or you’ve been at an event – to interact with the fans? What’s the fun thing to hear from them, the things they want to know, or the things they want to talk to you about?
Just like what you just said: that you’ve been reading Black Canary comics since the ’70s. Things like that make me feel like I’m part of something really special, and that I really owe it to the legacy of this character to do her justice. I haven’t seen it yet.

Stephen always tells me — he’s like, “The moment that you first see that little girl dressed up in your costume, you’re going to realize what it’s all about.” I can’t wait for that moment. I just get excited when people like the show and when people have a connection with the characters. It excites me, and it makes me want to do a better job.

Edited May 3, 2017 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

or Otherwise

Or otherwise?  So are people now thinking, just because KC is signed on for season six, that she (Dinah I mean) might not end up being the BC after all? Lol.  Ok. 

Edited May 3, 2017 by Starfish35
Clarification

[tv echo]

Portraying Disabilities in Comics: The Pros and Cons
Kevin Schaefer   May 2, 2017
https://smanewstoday.com/2017/05/02/sma-columnist-examines-disabilities-comics/

Quote

Oracle has become a fan-favorite over the years, aiding the rest of the Bat-family on countless adventures and playing a particularly prominent role in the 2010 series Batman Incorporated. If you’re unfamiliar with the comics, the closest thing we’ve seen to a cinematic adaptation of the heroine is in Arrow, season four, when Felicity Smoak also is paralyzed by Team Arrow nemesis Damian Darkh. Like Barbara Gordon, Felicity becomes confined to a wheelchair, but continues to use her intellectual prowess and technological skills to help her friends protect Star City. It was exciting to see a major character on the show with a disability, and who still retained all of the traits that defined her in the first place — intelligence, humor and sexiness.

Portraying a disabled character as a fearless and attractive individual remains one of the major highlights of Arrow’s history. The writers even dropped the Oracle name at one point, providing a nice Easter egg for comic readers.

Yet, much to the dismay of many viewers like me, by the end of the season the writers dropped a totally unnecessary deus ex machina in order to get rid of Felicity’s paralysis. An entire episode was devoted to Team Arrow using the nanotechnology developed by their friend Ray Palmer to heal Felicity and return her to her “natural” form. It’s a decision that did not sit well with many viewers; now it seems that DC is prepared to do the same thing with its upcoming Batgirl film.
*  *  *
This is but one of multiple instances in which a disabled superhero or other comics character is magically healed by some technological or supernatural force. It also raises questions about how accurately comics portray characters with disabilities in general. Check out this 2016 article in Pop Culture Uncovered entitled “Hey Comic Book Writers! Stop ‘Curing’ Our Disabled Heroes!” to read more about how often this happens among comic book heroes.

Edited May 3, 2017 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

Quote

An entire episode was devoted to Team Arrow using the nanotechnology developed by their friend Ray Palmer to heal Felicity and return her to her “natural” form.

Well that's not what happened, lol.  I wonder if the chip would be better received or not since it doesn't heal her so much as bridge the damage with technology? Probably doesn't make a difference from the writer's perspective but details matter.  

[ComicFan777]

I liked the addition of the chip in Felicity's paralysis storyline because it brought awareness to current breakthroughs in technology toward overcoming paralysis.  It was great to see people asking: is this possible?  how far is the science today?  Any attention to STEM research is awesome.

Edited May 3, 2017 by ComicFan777

[Delphi]

Quote

 If you’re unfamiliar with the comics, the closest thing we’ve seen to a cinematic adaptation of the heroine is in Arrow

Of course there was that show that actually focused on Barbara Gordon as Oracle... I mean no one watched it,  it wasn't terribly great and got cancelled but that's a pretty large oversight. 

And I'm not going to even get into how many more crucial comic stories that Oracle has been involved in besides Incorporated. 

[BkWurm1]

16 minutes ago, Delphi said:

Of course there was that show that actually focused on Barbara Gordon as Oracle... I mean no one watched it,  it wasn't terribly great and got cancelled but that's a pretty large oversight. 

It's funny.  I bet Birds of Prey's ratings, even at their worst, would blow Arrow's out of the water.

[Primal Slayer]

BoP sucked but their Barbara was GREAT. 

[Delphi]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

BoP sucked but their Barbara was GREAT. 

It sucked but I loved it so much,  especially Barbara.   I think it got a lot of things right,  but network interference is such a bitch.   Like Andromeda, BoP is one of the shows that was much better in my head.   They should have totally put fourteen year old me in charge of that show. 

Eta: @BkWurm1, I just checked BoPs ratings.   Premiere was 7.2, and throughout the run it average 3.4/5 with the lowest rated episode being that finale with 2.9.  I don't keep up with Arrow's ratings any more so I don't know how that compares. 

Edited May 4, 2017 by Delphi

[Primal Slayer]

I was surprised that they were allowed to use Batman/Catwoman/Joker even if it was a one-off appearance. 

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

It's funny.  I bet Birds of Prey's ratings, even at their worst, would blow Arrow's out of the water.

True, but that was 15 years ago (that makes me feel old).  It justs goes to show how much the ratings levels have fallen across the board.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Starfish35

[BkWurm1]

53 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

True, but that was 15 years ago (that makes me feel old).  It justs goes to show how much the ratings levels have fallen across the board.

Oh I know. Apples to oranges. I tried to go looking for them apples anyway. All I could find is that it premiered in the 7 million range and then dropped off drastically by the end.  

Edited May 4, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

True, but that was 15 years ago (that makes me feel old).  It justs goes to show how much the ratings levels have fallen across the board.

I used to follow Marc Berman back in the day and every year he would do a post about the breakdown of live vs DVR viewing. I think it was shifting to DVR viewing like 5-10% each year.

I'd be curious to see a breakdown of Live vs DVR vs Streaming. Is there a significant movement to streaming?

Edited May 4, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Chaser]

It wouldn't surprise me. I got rid of cable/DVR because I was tried of dealing with contracts and the companies. I can get everything I watch thru cheaper means. Netflix/Sling/Hulu, etc. 

[wonderwall]

I love it when comic book stans weep :')

[Chaser]

HeHe. This wasn't just an exploration of what happened between Olicity in S4 but a direct continuation of Oliver's dealings with Chase in 5x17. So .... shut up.

[insomniadreams88]

I wonder if these comic book stans would have any problem with anything they don't like about O/F if instead it all happened with Oliver/Laurel or Oliver/Dinah. Probably not. They need to just get over it. 

[Angel12d]

I'll never understand how a character driven/focused episode could be viewed as pointless. Characters are the driving force of a TV show, dummies. 

Fair enough if you don't like Olicity but the episode definitely wasn't pointless. Chase trapped them for a reason.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Angel12d