The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

[blixie]

 

When he tells Felicity she and Ray won't work out because they didn't work out it's arrogance and stupidity.

 

And also jealousy, resentment, and envy. It's not the mask, it's not the mission Oliver: it's YOU.

[Sakura12]

If she's comparing Oliver/Felicity to Buffy/Angel, she knows that couple didn't end up together right? That's a horrible comparison if you want to give people hope. It would probably be better to go with Logan/Veronica from Veronica Mars.  

Edited March 26, 2015 by Sakura12

[Danny Franks]

If she's comparing Oliver/Felicity to Buffy/Angel, she knows that couple didn't end up together right? 

 

Better than comparing them to the abusive mess that was Buffy/Spike. Perhaps Oliver is just cookie dough though, perhaps that's the point she's making.

[looptab]

I just love*sarcasm* how all this angst and conflict and pain and sufferance is based on a whole HALF DATE. They didn't even try, for heaven's sake. For all they know, they might have broke up after a couple weeks.

[Sakura12]

Better than comparing them to the abusive mess that was Buffy/Spike. Perhaps Oliver is just cookie dough though, perhaps that's the point she's making.

 

From this season, Oliver's practically separating all the ingredients and putting them back in their bags/jars. He's not even cookie dough at this point.  

[Danny Franks]

I just love*sarcasm* how all this angst and conflict and pain and sufferance is based on a whole HALF DATE. They didn't even try, for heaven's sake. For all they know, they might have broke up after a couple weeks.

 

TV romance. Nothing can ever be sensible when it could be overwrought. One of my biggest complaints about the way television depicts dating is that it's either an ill-conceived relationship where one character has feelings for someone else, or it can only happen when two people have been in love for years already, yearning and angsting away.

 

From this season, Oliver's practically separating all the ingredients and putting them back in their bags/jars. He's not even cookie dough at this point.

 

 

 

If Oliver ever tried to use this analogy to explain his state of mind, I would actually watch. 'I'm like... flour and salt and water and chocolate chips. Sometimes I feel like I'm mixed up a bit, but sometimes I just feel like I'm still in separate bags.... And that's why we can't be together.'

[Password]

Huh. I stopped reading jbuffyangel a few months ago because I didn't agree with what I was seeing on the screen. But she actually makes sense in this post. Or rather her review is more reassuring than what I've read from others on this board.

In particular what she writes about the Arrow vs Atom stand off and what it meant when Felicity said she deserved someone who wanted to be happy. She segues well into Oliver's enormous control issues surrounding Felicity's happiness.

For me, the next episode is actually very important in terms of Ray and Felicity's relationship because now there are less secrets. I say less instead of none because Ray could honestly turn into Lex Luthor and I wouldn't blink. Not an eye lash.

However I do feel like these things could've been handled sooner therefore there will likely be an air of feeling rushed.

[KenyaJ]

Huh. I stopped reading jbuffyangel a few months ago because I didn't agree with what I was seeing on the screen. But she actually makes sense in this post. Or rather her review is more reassuring than what I've read from others on this board.

 

 

I love her analyses of Oliver and Felicity's relationship itself. But like 10Eleven12, when it comes to analyzing their relationship in relation to the plot, I feel like she puts more thought into it than the writers have. The writers aren't having analytical conversations (or even thoughts) about the Olicity relationship; they're just throwing crap together and stealing plot points from "TV Show Writing for Dummies." So while I appreciate Jenn's ability to make sense out of non-sense, it doesn't change my opinion that the writers aren't nearly as smart and intentional as she thinks they are. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Robert Dougherty's review of "Suicidal Tendencies"

[tv echo]

A Forbes contributing writer just started reviewing Arrow episodes!  Partial excerpts are quoted below, but the whole review is worth reading (this writer apparently binge-watched the past 2+ seasons before "Suicidal Tendencies")...

 

'Arrow' Season 3, Episode 17 Review: Suicidal Tendencies
Erik Kain Contributor   3/26/2015 @ 2:30PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/03/26/arrow-season-3-episode-17-review-suicidal-tendencies/

I’m still upset that the show killed off Sara Lance earlier this season. Sara was a far more interesting character than her sister, Laurel, and frankly I don’t see that changing any time soon…or ever.
*  *  *
We’re reminded some of that tonight with the love triangle that is Ray Palmer (The Atom), Felicity Smoak, and Oliver Queen. Oliver is just ridiculous when it comes to women and relationships. His entire reason for not being with Felicity is utterly absurd.

 

I mean, here’s a guy who is okay having Felicity be on Team Arrow, risk her life every day, even put her directly into the hands of Slade Wilson, but he can’t be with her because it’s too dangerous? Because she deserves a normal life? If Oliver really thinks Felicity deserves a normal life, he’d stop working vigilante missions with her.
*  *  *
Of course, part of this is the fact that I really like Felicity and thought long before any romance blossomed between her and Oliver that the two ought to get together. Enough with the Lance sisters already! So all of this has been grating on me this season. Oliver needs to stop thinking he can protect all the women in his life by either lying to them or snubbing them or treating them like children. All he’s done is put them in more danger, driven Thea into Malcolm’s grasp, and so forth.

[tv echo]

This review of "Suicidal Tendencies" is short and kinda negative, but pretty funny in spots...

 

Like Life Itself, Arrow Goes Completely Downhill After The Wedding
Esther Inglis-Arkell  Today 11:20am
http://io9.com/like-life-itself-arrow-goes-completely-downhill-after-1693765266

Ever been a guest at a wedding and thought, "Oh, I wish this would last forever!" No? This episode will make you think that. The wedding is wonderful. The rest is very bad indeed.

Edited March 26, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

The HeroesandHeartbreakers review (for Olicity fans)...

 

Arrow 3x17 Olicity Heart-to-Heart: Wedding Favors
MARILYN_PORTER  THU MAR 26 2015 2:03PM
http://www.heroesandheartbreakers.com/blogs/2015/03/arrow-season-3-episode-17-olicity-heart-to-heart-wedding-favors

Felicity and Oliver have another scene together where she thanks him for proving her right about himself, about Ray. She kisses him on the cheek and I promptly burst into flames. I can’t deal with these two and their chemistry. I just CAN’T. That was the best cheek kiss in the history of cheek kisses and the best part was how perfectly the Arrow suit was framed between them as she leaned in to him. That’s the real triangle here: Oliver, Felicity, and the Arrow.

Edited March 26, 2015 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

This review of "Suicidal Tendencies" is short and kinda negative, but pretty funny in spots...

Like Life Itself, Arrow Goes Completely Downhill After The Wedding

Esther Inglis-Arkell Today 11:20am

http://io9.com/like-life-itself-arrow-goes-completely-downhill-after-1693765266

I think that might be the first time i09 went negative

[tv echo]

Pajiba is back with a surprisingly positive review of "Suicidal Tendencies" (excerpts quoted)....

 

'Arrow' Finds Direction by Focusing on its Core Characters
By Craig Wack | TV Reviews | March 26, 2015
http://www.pajiba.com/tv_reviews/arrow-finds-direction-by-focusing-on-its-core-characters.php?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

After taking some wrong turns through Lawwrel Canyon and Merlyn Gardens, Arrow has settled back down and “Suicidal Tendencies” bore a pleasing resemblance to an episode from the first two seasons.

 

The show suffers when it veers too far away from its core trio of characters: Ollie, Diggle and Felicity, who are the mind, body and spirit of the show. Thankfully the episode focused squarely on their ever-evolving team dynamic.
*   *   *

Edited March 26, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

WeMinoredInFilm's review of "Suicidal Tendencies"...

 

ARROW’S “SUICIDAL TENDENCIES” (S3,EP17) & FIGHTING OVER FELICITY
Posted on March 26, 2015   by Kelly Konda
http://weminoredinfilm.com/2015/03/26/arrows-suicidal-tendencies-s3ep17-fighting-over-felicity/

...That led to the Arrow v Atom fight, which suggested that once Ray does actually master the specifics of controlling his super suit Oliver will be no match for him. Seriously, it was like watching Batman fight Iron Man, with Iron Man looking amused when Batman’s batarangs bounce off of him. However, it did also confirm Oliver’s claim that Ray is ultimately unstable, unwilling to listen to reason from either Felicity or Oliver, and rushing off to a battle which could have resulted in people dying. Ultimately, experience and levelheadedness won out, Oliver exploiting a somewhat conveniently located power source on the ATOM suit.

*  *  *
11. By this point anytime Oliver and Felicity again revisit the topic of why he can’t be with her maybe he can just say, “Felicity, we’ve covered all of this already.”

Edited March 26, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

WeWatchforthePlot just published their (short) review of last week's episode, 3x16 "The Offer"...

 

Identity Crisis
March 25, 2015 beccadearie
https://wewatchfortheplot.wordpress.com/

When I first learned the season three theme for Arrow would be about identity, I did not expect it to become such a mess. However, the writers must have believed the characters would only be able to figure out who they really are, and what they stood for by making them out of character this year. The season has now aired sixteen episodes, and I am only starting to see a glimpse of why I fell in love with the show in the first place. The fact of the matter is the theme fits because the show itself lost its identity this year.

 

The majority of last week’s episode was a right out mess, but it finally showed us a bit of why I came to love Arrow in the first place with the help of John Diggle and Felicity Smoak....
*  *  *
I miss the show I fell in love with, and truly wish for the show to get its act together.

Edited March 26, 2015 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

If she's comparing Oliver/Felicity to Buffy/Angel, she knows that couple didn't end up together right? That's a horrible comparison if you want to give people hope. It would probably be better to go with Logan/Veronica from Veronica Mars.  

So does that mean we have to wait seven years after the series goes off the air and then crowd fund our own happily ever after?

 

Hey, I happily took that deal with VMars.  I'd do it again. 

[calliope1975]

So does that mean we have to wait seven years after the series goes off the air and then crowd fund our own happily ever after?

 

Hey, I happily took that deal with VMars.  I'd do it again. 

 

Only if none of the current EPs are in charge. I gladly funded VM because I trusted Rob Thomas to not let me down with the movie, and he didn't. I don't trust MG to not take any money donated for a feature length KC BC movie.

[Ang]

I love her analyses of Oliver and Felicity's relationship itself. But like 10Eleven12, when it comes to analyzing their relationship in relation to the plot, I feel like she puts more thought into it than the writers have. The writers aren't having analytical conversations (or even thoughts) about the Olicity relationship; they're just throwing crap together and stealing plot points from "TV Show Writing for Dummies." So while I appreciate Jenn's ability to make sense out of non-sense, it doesn't change my opinion that the writers aren't nearly as smart and intentional as she thinks they are.

Yeah, I definitely have mixed feelings about her predictions and trust in the writers. A good point was made above re: Whedon; if that's the playbook they're using with Arrow, then what do we have to look forward to other than hoping that, when our OTP goes down in a flaming mockery of everything we loved about them, we'll be able to derive some deeper, depressing meaning?

That said, I prefer the show she's watching to the one I saw this week. Reading her review I can almost believe I'm not watching the last gasping breaths of Olicity as it flops and dies on the banks of the Lauriver (heh; I may have gone fishing today...).

[statsgirl]

I was talking with my daughter about it and she said that Joss Whedon would never have written a female lead character as wimpy as Felicity was in the last episode.

 

Apologies if it's been posted (I didn't see it)

Vulture Recap: Say Yes To The Mess

 

He’s also not convinced that the Arrow is innocent of the recent killings. When Felicity insists that she knows Oliver better than anyone, Ray catches on to what’s really going on: Felicity has feelings for Oliver. “Yes,” she says. “I mean, no, no … I did.” (Bet she wishes she got her lips sewn shut now.) Ray’s heard enough, and he’s off to the police precinct to turn Oliver in.

 

Meanwhile, Felicity heads straight to the foundry to tell Oliver the bad news. In typical Felicity fashion, she lets it all out at once in a long, panicky babble. Stephen Amell’s reaction as Oliver processes Felicity’s news is bested only by his head snap to Roy, who thinks the fact that Ray has a supersuit is awesome. Seriously, if the Emmys had an award for Best GIF-able Reaction Face, Amell would take it each year, hands down. He can move emotional mountains with a single eye twitch.

[dcinmb]

This is pretty funny . . .

 

Author inspirations: Stephen Amell, 'Vampire Diaries,' 'Outlander' (USA Today)

 

Today's featured authors — Lavinia Kent, HEA contributor and author of Bound by Bliss; Mira Lynn Kelly, author of Touch & Go; and Maeve Greyson, author of My Highland Lover — share three of the things that inspired their recent releases.

 

Lavinia Kent, author of Bound by Bliss

. . . I probably don't need to say more, but after I created the character of Bliss I needed a hero to go with her. Bliss is seen by the world as carefree and scandalous, but has a very deep soul. Lord Duldon is considered staid and strict. I needed to find inspiration for a hero who could appear strict and strong, but whose smile revealed a deep sense of joy and humor. Amell is my favorite for that right now. When he is playing the Arrow he can be quite intimidating and then when he plays Oliver Queen (or when you see his real-life videos) he has a fabulous sense of fun . . .

 

. . . Stephan has secretly desired Bliss for years, but he knows how close he is to losing his beloved. Careful not to rile her impetuous heart, he promises only to aid Bliss in her search for another fiancé. And if she's determined to understand the male body first, he's happy to comply in that regard as well. However, she must follow his rules or face the consequences. Slowly he takes Bliss to the darker, steamier side of his world . . . where she realizes that Stephan is everything she's ever wanted . . .

 

 

 

 

[dcinmb]

Apparently, NOT a Lauriver shipper:

 

Arrow --- Where Love is a Battlefield (PopTraction)

 

“Suicidal Tendencies” explores the many ways we say “I do” in the name of love with Oliver pushing Felicity toward a better life with Ray and Floyd “Deadshot” Lawton sacrificing his own for John, Lyla and baby Sara . . .

 

. . . Diggle and Lyla’s wedding presents an opportunity for the writers to remind us that Stephen Amell and Katie Cassidy could not pass a chemistry test if their lives depended on it. The moment Oliver stiffly rests his hand on Laurel’s back felt like a direction – “now Stephen, place your left hand on Katie’s upper back just behind her right arm, no her back, not her shoulder, oh for god’s sake Stephen try to look interested [notes the exasperated director] – rather than an instinctive decision on the part of the character. Contrast that exchange with the relaxed spontaneity exhibited by Rickards seconds later as she casually rests the back of her arm on Amell’s chest. These simple interactions show that Cassidy’s character is best served by a friendship with Oliver rather than anything approaching romance.

 

Not surprisingly, this wedding episode gave audiences plenty of emotionally-charged interactions between Arrow’s signature couple, Oliver and Felicity. Ray Palmer makes an inexplicable appearance at a press conference regarding the Arrow and later does some x-ray sleuthing to discover the man’s true identity. Felicity’s own facial recognition software also plays a role in Ray’s discovery. She withheld crucial information about everyone’s secret identities and is shaken by the subsequent realization that the two men in her world are about to collide.

 

Ray ends up causing all kinds of trouble for Oliver who sees Palmer as more of a nuisance than a nemesis. A brief skirmish between the two (and also with Arsenal who as far as I can tell still lays in a heap), leads Oliver to dispatch Ray as if he were a tiny bug that needed swatting. Oliver’s generic name for Palmer’s alter-ego, “Supersuit,” gets to the heart of the Ray Palmer Conundrum. For all of his intelligence and “military grade” equipment, Ray ends up looking like a floating Iron Man knockoff in his ATOM suit. Does the world really need yet another member of the 1% jumping into the hero business? Whoever’s working on that new CW spinoff needs to answer the “so what” question and do a whole lot more to amp up ATOM’s cool factor before expecting viewers to invest in his story.

 

A hooded Oliver delivers a strong message to Ray about Felicity in his gravelly Arrow voice prompting comparisons to Diggle’s earlier warning. Oliver stands secure in his non-relationship with Felicity – “I have nothing to prove to her, but you do. She chose you, so trust her.” Ray humbly accepts this advice and promises to make Felicity happy. Oliver, who is not yet ready to “be a hero and a human being,” continues his martyrdom by pushing Felicity into Ray’s arms. Meanwhile, these exchanges reveal that Felicity’s balancing act between Ray her lover and Oliver her soulmate is a delicate one that threatens to come crashing down at any moment.

 

“Suicidal Tendencies” makes clear that heroes and villains alike carry the scars of love and battle with them. The wonderfully complicated and gritty Floyd Lawton best embodies this lesson, and I am guessing that despite his brush with death we have not seen the last of him. Lest we allow serious themes to bog us down, this episode happens to also treat viewers to Shirtless Oliver, Suspenders Oliver, and the illusion of Multiple-Hooded Olivers. It’s nice to see that priorities are still intact.

 

 

 

 

[Velocity23]

http://www.ranker.com/list/differences-between-arrow-and-green-arrow/ranker-comics?var=3&utm_expid=16418821-89.n7jb3LDfQ06OulFy_zY6Dw.2

20 Ways CW's Arrow is Different From the Comics

[tv echo]

Jessica Breaux's combined review of "The Offer" and "Suicidal Tendencies"...

 

Arrow “The Offer” and “Suicidal Tendencies” Reviews (Season 3, Episodes 16 and 17)
Jessica Breaux   March 26, 2015
http://www.tvequals.com/2015/03/26/arrow-offer-suicidal-tendencies-reviews-season-3-episodes-16-17/

But why? Why would you want someone to lead an organization when they have made it perfectly clear they have no desire to lead the organization? What is the benefit to the League for Ra’s to force Oliver to take over? Especially since Oliver has a ‘no killing’ policy. It seems like that would be problematic for an organization known as the League of Assassins. Furthermore, Nyssa really wanted to be the next Ra’s. Why not appoint her? She’s definitely not opposed to killing people. It seems like the show is trying to make Ra’s into this season’s big baddie, but this doesn’t do much to make him seem intimidating. The only thing this does is make him seem like a petulant child throwing a tantrum because his parent told him he couldn’t have any candy. None of this makes any sense and it seems like a plot device just to create drama. It doesn’t feel organic to the story and it doesn’t feel like this is a logical progression of Oliver’s story arc.

 

... It also gave us a glimpse of what Ray might be like as a hero. The suit was pretty cool, but Ray wasn’t nearly as impressive. For a guy who claims to have a “140 IQ and 3 Ph.d’s” he sure didn’t seem particularly smart.... Oliver was right that Ray was out to prove something, but not just to Felicity. He was out to prove something to himself and, after he discovered The Arrow’s identity, to Oliver as well. He knows that Felicity is still in love with Oliver. He also knows that even with all of his money and charm, he still won’t match up to Oliver in Felicity’s eyes. Whether she admits it or not. So Ray’s dedication to bringing down The Arrow was really about him proving to himself that he’s better than Oliver. I don’t think he is though... But Ray seems to love the spotlight way too much. He also doesn’t seem entirely sincere. I can’t tell if that’s due to the way Brandon Routh portrays him or whether Ray is truly faking it. Whatever the case, I’m just not warming up to Ray very much. Oh, and I’ve decided I am totally not on board the Ray/Felicity love train.
*  *  *
... Oliver still has his head firmly planted up his rear end when it comes to Felicity though. One of the most important things to have in life is balance and Oliver doesn’t have any balance at all. He keeps singing the song about being unable to be a hero and have the girl, but that’s crap. I just wonder how long it’s going to take him to figure out that that’s crap....

Edited March 27, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

A generally positive review of "Suicidal Tendencies" with some insights...

 

Arrow: 3×17 Review – Suicidal Tendencies
By: Alisha Bjorklund 14 hours ago
http://www.threeifbyspace.net/2015/03/arrow-3x17-review-suicidal-tendencies/

Which brings us to Ray’s fight with Felicity, and then Oliver’s fight with Felicity. Poor girl can’t catch a break. But amidst all of this fighting and confessions, we’re also given insight about certain truths. And the theme of trust plays a large factor, too. First, during the fight between Ray and Felicity, a truth bomb hits hard: Felicity openly (and pretty much instantly) confesses that she has feelings for Oliver. And now Ray feels like he can’t trust her because she wasn’t honest with him. But here’s the punchline: Ray hasn’t been nearly as open and truthful with her as he claims. He didn’t even tell her about his suit being ready for action!

 

Then during Felicity and Oliver’s fight, another truth bomb: Oliver doesn’t think he’s worthy of Felicity’s love. When Oliver told her he wanted her to be happy with a good guy and a normal life, he meant someone who isn’t a vigilante. But now that Oliver knows that Ray is just like him (only more emotionally accessible), he thinks Felicity deserves better. Better than himself, and better than a wannabe vigilante in an Iron Man knock off.

 

This fight of theirs is raw and emotional, but it gets to the heart of their problem. Oliver pushed her away because he wanted her safe and happy. But she won’t leave her dangerous lifestyle; she’s just shifting to the next hero-in-training. And not only does Oliver seem to have a lot of self-loathing, he’s also afraid to be happy. He doesn’t trust his life, or his ability to love, enough to be okay with the romantic relationship her really wants. Felicity has been trying to tell him, over and over, that she would be with him if he chose her, but Oliver’s stubbornness won’t yield.

 

After watching this episode, most people would say that the ongoing love triangle of the show is between Oliver, Felicity, and Ray. While that is true to a certain extent, it’s just as accurate to say that the triangle is between Oliver, Felicity, and the Arrow. Ray is a factor, but before he even got involved with Felicity, the Arrow was driving a wedge between our favorite vigilante and IT girl.

Edited March 27, 2015 by tv echo

[looptab]

 

Oliver was right that Ray was out to prove something, but not just to Felicity. He was out to prove something to himself and, after he discovered The Arrow’s identity, to Oliver as well. He knows that Felicity is still in love with Oliver. He also knows that even with all of his money and charm, he still won’t match up to Oliver in Felicity’s eyes. Whether she admits it or not. So Ray’s dedication to bringing down The Arrow was really about him proving to himself that he’s better than Oliver.

That's interesting, I didn't read it that way at all. I thought when Oliver told him "I have nothing to prove to her, but you do" he meant "from now on" , not "you just want to prove yourself but there's no need because she chose you blah blah". But maybe he did mean it this way? I don't know,

[FurryFury]

If she's comparing Oliver/Felicity to Buffy/Angel, she knows that couple didn't end up together right? That's a horrible comparison if you want to give people hope. It would probably be better to go with Logan/Veronica from Veronica Mars.

 

As a shipper of both B/A and V/L, no, Oliver/Felicity has absolutely nothing in common with either of these pairings. The dynamics, the characters, the tropes - everything's completely different, as are the shows. I suppose you could compare Olicity to Angel/Cordelia (only with chemistry and without ruining the female character for the sake of the romance), although it would too be a stretch.

 

Also, from the outside perspective (I'm not an Olicity shipper), just basing my predictions on the writing style thus far, Oliver and Felicity will absolutely end up together, barring any RL stuff like actor leaving. Well, there is also a small chance of Guggenheim having delusions of grandeur and deciding to kill Oliver in the finale to show that he can write tragedy or something, but this is, like, 0.01%. Don't fret, guys.

[Sakura12]

I don't think those couples have anything in common with Olicity. I"m just saying if she's trying to give shippers hope, she should be comparing them to a couple that did end up together like Veronica and Logan. 

[dcinmb]

That's interesting, I didn't read it that way at all. I thought when Oliver told him "I have nothing to prove to her, but you do" he meant "from now on" , not "you just want to prove yourself but there's no need because she chose you blah blah". But maybe he did mean it this way? I don't know,

I took it as, "You have to prove you're worthy of her."

[tv echo]

SoundonSight's mostly negative review of "Suicidal Tendencies"...

 

Arrow Ep. 3.17 “Suicidal Tendencies” continues to be all over the place (draft)
Posted on March 26, 2015By Randy Dankievitch
http://www.soundonsight.org/arrow-suicidal-tendencies-review/

“Suicidal Tendencies” is an odd episode of Arrow, though one that benefits from one very important thing: the resurrection of John Diggle, whose been reserved to background fodder for most of the season while Ra’s wreaked mayhem and something happened in Hong Kong with some virus not named Mirakura (Alpha/Omega; but you get my point). And in an episode that mostly involves Laurel and Quentin bickering (yawn) and the increasingly grating arrowhead tip-shaped love triangle of Ray, Felicity, and Oliver went for another spin.

 

While everything in Starling City might be ridiculous, at least “Suicidal Tendencies” offers us the presence of one John Diggle, who is trying to reconcile being a father with being a trained military badass,...
*  *  *
The rest of “Suicidal Tendencies”? Well, it gives us an Arrow vs. Arrow, Arrow, and Arrow fight scene – and not much else, unless Ray acting like an arrogant dick (out of nowhere), Oliver a jealous baby (pretty consistent), and another mayor getting attacked (murdered? who knows), begging the question as to why anyone wants to have any political power in this city at all. The bickering between Ray and Oliver, which literally adds nothing in the way of dramatic or emotional stakes, (since we’re rehashing material that’s been rehashed for the last 10 episodes) continues until they suddenly decide to be buddies when Oliver shuts down A.T.O.M.’s gizmo suit, which apparently just works perfectly now, and Ray has perfect command of after a week), leading us to another speech where Felicity and Oliver explain to each other and us exactly how they feel, since all their actions are basically random at this point.

 

... this episode features the same problem much of the season has had, with superficial tensions and ever-shifting character behaviors and motivations turning the season into a mush of cyclical stories (this week… Laurel actually doesn’t kick butt or get her butt kicked, so there’s one that changes) centered on a romantic story I’m quickly losing interest in, a doubly disappointing turn given how it was one of the show’s lone brights spots in the early going.

Edited March 27, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I came across this article by someone at Vanguard Dahlonega, The Military College of Georgia, who recently became a fan of Arrow...

 

Guilty Pleasure: Arrow
Written by Dalton Deavers   March 26, 2015
http://www.vanguarddahlonega.com/2015/03/guilty-pleasure-arrow/

What sets “Arrow” apart from so many other shows is its ability to create authentic drama and emotion. Furthermore, it has undoubtedly maintained this authenticity throughout. This is certainly a breath of fresh air in a time when it seems as if superhero films and TV shows have become somewhat overdone. As a comic book fan, it’s also nice to see the producers staying so true to the origins of the character.

 

I could also certainly set aside an entire article devoted solely to the attractiveness of the “Arrow” cast, but for brevity’s sake I’ll just provide two words: Felicity Smoak. That’s all folks.

Edited March 27, 2015 by tv echo

[strikera0]

If I had to compare Oliver/Felicity in terms of writing and function to any couple right now, it would probably be the Clana relationship on Smallville, which I admit isn't a very flattering comparison.

[Chaser]

A lot of these reviews have a deja-vu element. Wasn't it this time last year where reviewers were talking about getting back to the Team Arrow core?

 

From a shipper's perspective, I'm also taking some delight in the fact that Felicity works better with Oliver and Laurel works better away from them.

 

Now are the EPs paying attention to this...probably not :-(

[jay741982]

If I had to compare Oliver/Felicity in terms of writing and function to any couple right now, it would probably be the Clana relationship on Smallville, which I admit isn't a very flattering comparison.

You know what's bad? I've been watching My Smallville DVDs again and I'm seeing it I'm scared

[BkWurm1]

If I had to compare Oliver/Felicity in terms of writing and function to any couple right now, it would probably be the Clana relationship on Smallville, which I admit isn't a very flattering comparison.

The similarity is there in the "woe is me I can't be with this person I love" BUT I maintain a HUGE key difference is that Clark was afraid to trust her with who he was for fear she'd hate or fear him.  They didn't have a relationship because he couldn't be himself with her (and his lies were constantly hurting her).  

 

Later it became clear that he loved a fantasy of the girl next door not the real flawed person.  Lana represented his dream of a normal life  and when they finally did get together for a real chance (him being depowered for a summer doesn't really count I guess) he got mocked by Oliver Queen for hiding out on a farm playing house.  Lana in the meantime pretended to be a different person with him, hiding her shady plans of revenge and push come to shove preferred the fake version of Clark that wanted to abandon all his gifts and responsibilities and focus all his attention on her. 

 

Oliver and Felicity trust and know each other and she supports him in what he does.  She wants the life they have now, not some nebulous fantasy where he can be normal.  That makes their issues vastly different than Clana IMO. 

Edited March 27, 2015 by BkWurm1

[strikera0]

The similarity is there in the "woe is me I can't be with this person I love" BUT I maintain a HUGE key difference is that Clark was afraid to trust her with who he was for fear she'd hate or fear him.  They didn't have a relationship because he couldn't be himself with her (and his lies were constantly hurting her).  

 

Later it became clear that he loved a fantasy of the girl next door not the real flawed person.  Lana represented his dream of a normal life  and when they finally did get together for a real chance (him being depowered for a summer doesn't really count I guess) he got mocked by Oliver Queen for hiding out on a farm playing house.  Lana in the meantime pretended to be a different person with him, hiding her shady plans of revenge and push come to shove preferred the fake version of Clark that wanted to abandon all his gifts and responsibilities and focus all his attention on her. 

 

Oliver and Felicity trust and know each other and she supports him in what he does.  She wants the life they have now, not some nebulous fantasy where he can be normal.  That makes their issues vastly different than Clana IMO. 

 

When I compare Oliver/Felicity to Clark/Lana, I am not so much thinking of it in terms of details but in terms of function within the story. It is through Oliver's struggle to initiate and maintain a relationship with Felicity that we see his struggle for identity play out and Felicity - just like Lana on Smallville - represents a chance at a normal life for Oliver. And considering that we are only in season 3 of Arrow, it's very unlikely that Oliver and Felicity will live happily ever after in a committed relationship anytime soon. Maybe they will get together and stay together for half a season or so, but then they are going to break up and the will-they-won't-they dance will start all over again (Clana had a similar will-they-won't-they dynamic and it was one of the reasons why they were so unwatchable).

Edited March 27, 2015 by strikera0

[BkWurm1]

(Clana had a similar will-they-won't-they dynamic and it was one of the reasons why they were so unwatchable).

 

Clana also came with a guaranteed, no they won't whether you were a Chlarker, Chloiser, Cloiser, or a Clexer.  Lana and Clark was the dead horse of all dead horses that kept getting beaten.  No one except the most naïve thought Clana was any kind of an endgame so the will they won't they became OMG how long do I have to put up with this until it is firmly won't they.

 

At least there is still a question out there for Arrow. 

Edited March 27, 2015 by BkWurm1

[strikera0]

Clana also came with a guaranteed, no they won't whether you were a Chlarker, Chloiser, Cloiser, or a Clexer.  Lana and Clark was the dead horse of all dead horses that kept getting beaten.  No one except the most naïve thought Clana was any kind of an endgame so the will they won't they became OMG how long do I have to put up with this until it is firmly won't they.

 

At least there is still a question out there for Arrow. 

 

Yeah, that's true but even when endgame status is in question, most will-they-won't-they couples will eventually become tiresome to viewers unless they are in the hands of really skilled, competent romance writers. I mean no offense to the Arrow writing staff, but I don't think they belong in that category. Anyways, what I was trying to say was that due to Oliver/Felicity being executed so early in the game, they are destined to become Arrow's main will-they-won't-they arc (like Clana in Smallville). The destination could end up being different, but that's really anybody's guess at this point.

[BkWurm1]

Yeah, that's true but even when endgame status is in question, most will-they-won't-they couples will eventually become tiresome to viewers unless they are in the hands of really skilled, competent romance writers. I mean no offense to the Arrow writing staff, but I don't think they belong in that category. Anyways, what I was trying to say was that due to Oliver/Felicity being executed so early in the game, they are destined to become Arrow's main will-they-won't-they arc (like Clana in Smallville). The destination could end up being different, but that's really anybody's guess at this point.

You may end up being right though I do hope the writers choose another path.  If Oliver can do it, so can they.  ;)

[tv echo]

Emertainment Monthly's usual rave review about an Arrow episode...

 

‘Arrow’ Review/Recap: “Suicidal Tendencies”
Posted on March 28, 2015  By Nora Dominick ‘17
http://emertainmentmonthly.com/2015/03/28/arrow-reviewrecap-suicidal-tendencies/

Audrey Marie Anderson and David Ramsey are probably the most underrated couple on Arrow... Anderson and Ramsey’s ability to showcase an entire relationship in just a few sentences is simply amazing.
*  *  *
... Rowe does an incredible job at transitioning between the man Lawton was into the man he wants to become.
*  *  *
Emily Bett Rickards, Brandon Routh and Stephen Amell all deliver killer performances this week as they are put into the very definition of a “love triangle.” With every move Felicity makes, Ray and Oliver are vying for who really loves her more. Oliver appears to win this round, especially when Felicity answers a unequivocally “Yes!” to Ray’s question “You have feeling for him?” Rickards is one of the few actresses on TV that could have amazing, out-of-this-world chemistry with two leading men. Like their characters, Routh and Amell themselves have to vie for the attention of Rickards as she commands the screen. Rickards continues to astound in the role of Felicity and each and every week adds a layer to the characters ever pressing question: Should she choose Ray or Oliver?

 

... One of the best scenes of the night comes when Ray confronts Felicity about knowing Oliver is The Arrow. Felicity responds to Ray’s allegations that The Arrow is a harmful criminal by saying, “You have no idea what he’s been through. What he’s lost, how he’s grown. But I do. I know him better than almost anyone.” Rickards delivers her lines with such emotion and truth that it’s hard to separate the character from the actor...  Amell and Routh both are very strong actors and continues to play the power struggle for Felicity and Starling City effortlessly. Amell has been able to show off his emotional side in recent weeks and this episode continues to showcase his growth as an actor.

Edited March 28, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I always look forward to reading the Bleeding Cool reviews by Rich Epstein...

 

How Much Further Will They Go? Recapping Arrow 3.17: 'Suicidal Tendencies'
By Rich Epstein  Posted March 27, 2015
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/03/27/how-much-further-will-they-go-recapping-arrow-3-17-suicidal-tendencies/

... Great time for Oliver, watches his best friend get married while the love of his life looks on with her boyfriend... There is a really nice shot of Oliver watching Felicity watching Ray. You can really feel his pain as she smiles with pride at another man.
*  *  *
... Oliver tells her that he is happy for her, “You deserve a normal guy and a normal life.” Uh huh. Even without knowing about the whole ATOM suit thing, is a billionaire really that much of a “normal” guy?...

 

... For some reason, Ray is at the press conference with the mayor, the chief of police, and the acting district attorney. Maybe I missed something, but when did he run for office? ...
*  *  *
... Ray tells Felicity what he discovered, and that he knows that she knows about Oliver. She tells him that Oliver isn’t the killer, and asks Ray to trust her. He takes it as a sign that she has feelings for Oliver, and he tells her that since she hid this from him, he can’t trust her anymore. He wanted a true partner, someone who could help him. Dumb. Think about it, would you rather that she was the type of person who would betray someone’s secret? She told him that there was something between her and Oliver, but it’s over. And Ray thinks she should now be betraying Oliver’s trust. Would that really be a good sign? If you are someone with a secret identity, wouldn’t you rather have someone who you know will never betray that type of secret?...
*  *  *
Oliver is in the Arrowcave talking to Roy when Felicity walks in and tells them “he knows.” She gives Ray’s whole story to Oliver, and he is a little pissed that she didn’t tell him about Ray. Kinda missing the point.
*  *  *
Back in Starling, Ray is at work in his office when Oliver walks in. Oliver tells Ray he should trust Felicity, but Ray thinks her judgment of Oliver is clouded by her feelings. I don’t know if it was intentional or not, but Brandon Routh just could not match Stephen Amell in this scene. Maybe it was supposed to be that way; Oliver has had years to perfect the menacing look and threatening banter. But it came off looking like Amell was just the better actor.
*  *  *
Oliver tells Felicity about his meeting with Ray. He thinks that Ray is unstable to be going after a man he thinks is a mass murderer (not to mention talking to the supposed mass murderer without his super suit a few minutes ago), ...
*  *  *
Maybe there’s a reason we don’t hear about a lot of people armed with bow and arrows, not that useful of a weapon in modern days. Palmer hits Roy with a blast, and Arsenal’s done for the fight. Ray is on the verge of taking out Oliver, when Oliver notices a weak spot on the suit and hits it. The suit shuts down (boy, that was a bigger design flaw than the exhaust port on the Death Star) and Oliver has him dead to rights, but he doesn’t finish him off, trying instead to show Palmer that he isn’t a killer. He tells Palmer that Felicity chose him, now he needs to trust her, and helps him up. Oliver then walks off, as Palmer watches in confusion. I guess Roy is still just lying there? Maybe Oliver should have stopped to check on his friend? Does he need a doctor?
*  *  *
This was one of the better episodes this season. A lot of really good scenes that highlighted the complicated relationships between these characters. Not to mention, less Laurel and Thea is always a plus. Deadshot is always a good character, and like I said, Cupid worked in this episode as well.

 

The ATOM/Arrow fight was a bit of a let down. It was pretty short, and pretty one-sided until Oliver found the weak spot. I know Ray has a supersuit and all, but how long has it been actually working? Felicity didn’t even know that it was ready. I just thought Oliver should have been able to use his skills to make a more even fight against the overpowered but inexperienced Palmer, kind of like against the Flash.

Edited March 28, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

GeekDad's reviews are always funny and snarky (some excerpts quoted, so you might want to read the whole thing - though Corrina is not loving Oliver these days)...

 

Same Geek Channel Review: ‘Arrow’ Episode 317 “Suicidal Tendencies”
Posted on 27 March, 2015 by Mordechai Luchins
http://geekdad.com/2015/03/geek-channel-arrow-317/

Corrina: Welcome to Arrow, where the main point of this episode seems to be that you can’t do anything heroic, even serve your country, if you have a family.
*  *  *
Can you tell how much I’m loathing the character of Oliver Queen lately? Except I think I’m supposed to feel bad for him. Oliver’s saving grace: shirtless workout! You can’t tell me that’s a coincidence that he did it right in front of Felicity.

*  *  *
Mordechai: A buck says Captain Lance will be the next Mayor.

Corrina: A buck say Captain Lance will be six feet under at the end of the season and die before reconciling with Laurel.
*  *  *
... A.R.G.U.S. is supposed to be this huge, massive agency, but they keep relying on, like, three people. An untrained Oliver in the flashbacks, and now roping in Lyla when they have a building full of agents... Not to mention they don’t care about security, given they keep including non-A.R.G.U.S. member Diggle in their missions.
*  *  *
Corrina: Oh, please, this is a city that has a murder trial over in one day, tells the police force not to police an entire area of the city, and elected Brother Blood as mayor. The press conference line-up is the least of the stupid writing of city officials.
*  *  *
Corrina: Query: if Ollie knows where the fake Arrows will show up, why doesn’t he alert the police himself so they can show up and witness it? Or tape the fight with the fake Arrows?
*  *  *
Seriously, you have to love the two men who have been trusting Felicity with their secrets blowing up at her for keeping another guy’s secrets. Sorry, but that’s the whole point–she’s really, really good at keeping secrets, you guys.

 

Corrina: Run away with Iron Ray, Felicity, instead of sticking around with passive-aggressive Oliver. But, first, go hack Captain Cold’s file on Barry.
*  *  *
Apparently, though, just like Starling City only has one police station, they also only have one Assistant D.A....
*  *  *
But poor Arsenal. He was taken out and tossed around and we don’t hear from him the rest of the episode. Maybe Thea helped nurse him, if she wasn’t too busy taking care of the mass murderer sleeping on her couch.

Edited March 28, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Girl-on-ComicBook-World thinks the problems with season 3 are twofold: (1) too much focus on Olicity, and (2) an unfocused season.  While I agree with the second, I disagree with the first with respect to the reasons she states.  I think the unnecessary 'soap opera' drama is due to the ridiculous plot contrivances used to keep O. & F. apart and just bad, OOC writing.  But really the second reason overwhelms everything else...

 

What’s Going On? The problems with Arrow season 3
Posted on March 28, 2015
https://girloncomicbookworld.wordpress.com/2015/03/28/problems-arrow-season-3/

Edited March 28, 2015 by tv echo

[NumberCruncher]

I'm amused Rich Epstein only now realizes Stephen is a better actor than BR. I've known that from the start--then again, I've never thought Routh could act all that well to begin with.

[tv echo]

If you're following the reviews by those 2 romance authors on USA Today...

 

Romance authors react to 'Arrow': 'Suicidal Tendencies' rocked
Allison Brennan and Lavinia Kent, Special for USA TODAY 10:58 p.m. EDT March 27, 201
http://www.usatoday.com/story/happyeverafter/2015/03/27/arrow-suicidal-tendencies-allison-brennan-lavinia-kent/70579634/

I also loved the moment at the wedding reception when Oliver is standing with Laurel and Felicity, who are in similar dresses. It was a true fan moment, letting everyone have their own little dream. Oliver's smiling satisfaction with Felicity's happiness, while at the same time he can't keep his eyes off her, tugged at my heartstrings.
*  *  *
LK: I saw a lot of parallels between Lawton and Oliver in this episode. We can start with something as simple as Lawton's view that there are no happy endings and that love isn't for people like them (the Suicide Squad, Diggle and Lila). This is very similar to Oliver's feelings about himself and Felicity, his belief that he can't do what he does and have a happy ending.
*  *  *
AB: I, personally, think that this triangle works very well. I can see Felicity with both Oliver and Ray, they are two sides of the same coin. Ray believes in all that is good and just, a little Pollyanna, but his heart is in the right place. And that's why I can't hate him. Oliver believes that there is evil and he has to understand evil to defeat it. He doesn't want// to kill, but he will// kill if there is no other alternative. I really love that even though Oliver makes mistakes, that he is sometimes defeated (like by Ra's al Ghul in The Climb),// he has learned from each defeat and has become smarter. It's that ability to learn and adapt that's going to make a difference at the end. What do you think?

Edited March 28, 2015 by tv echo

[SmallScreenDiva]

I find it really interesting that a lot of the reviewers still seem to think Oliver is pushing Felicity away because of not wanting to put her in danger. Even the Forbes reviewer ranted about that. The problem is, that's never been the issue with Oliver and Felicity. He's pushing her (fixed) away because he gets so distracted when he's with her that the city gets screwed — that's what he thinks, anyway (He's completely wrong, of course). It's probably too late but I think the show may need to actually hammer this point home in simpler terms.

Edited March 28, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[looptab]

I find it really interesting that a lot of the reviewers still seem to think Oliver is pushing Felicity away because of not wanting to put her in danger. Even the Forbes reviewer ranted about that. The problem is, that's never been the issue with Oliver and Felicity. He's pushing him away because he gets so distracted when he's with her that the city gets screwed — that's what he thinks, anyway (He's completely wrong, of course). It's probably too late but I think the show may need to actually hammer this point home in simpler terms.

I noticed that, too. And I think that misunderstanding is why most reviewers are finding this conflict ridiculous, because as many of them have noted, she doesn't exactly lead a normal, not-dangerous life anyway. The thing is, they basically spelled out why they're not together again in this episode, so what do these people need, Oliver monologuing? A voice-over?

 

"Dear Journal, I can't be with Felicity because she distracts me. I'm really struggling with the concept of my IDENTITY..."

 

-The Arrow Diaries-

[tarotx]

I think it's both reasons. He is distracted and he doesn't want to to be the cause of her pain. Better to end it early so that she can have a life with love and family. He has suffered from both. I think this will hit home when we find out the why Aiko isn't in the present.

[Carrie Ann]

I think a lot of people just fill in the storytelling blanks with the tropes they expect to see, or they form an impression based on a few simple misunderstandings. I mean, people still argue that Felicity doesn't want Oliver to love her because the women he loves get hurt or killed--a fundamental misread of that one awful line in 312. And that's not a minor distinction. But because the show is doing so little to make clear where Oliver and especially Felicity are with their feelings, you can basically believe whatever you want for the time being and canon really won't contradict it (or it will constantly contradict it and you'll no longer trust that you know or like these characters). And I imagine the confusion is going to make it pretty unsatisfying for some people when they do resolve it someday. As it is, I think the lack of clarity and the absence of their formerly fun dynamic has lost the pairing a lot of support from more casual fans. In fact, of my friends and people I follow on Twitter who fall into that category, ALL of them have lost interest in O/F and some actively oppose it now.

Edited March 28, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[kismet]

I noticed that, too. And I think that misunderstanding is why most reviewers are finding this conflict ridiculous, because as many of them have noted, she doesn't exactly lead a normal, not-dangerous life anyway. The thing is, they basically spelled out why they're not together again in this episode, so what do these people need, Oliver monologuing? A voice-over?

 

"Dear Journal, I can't be with Felicity because she distracts me. I'm really struggling with the concept of my IDENTITY..."

 

-The Arrow Diaries-

He could add it to his 5 yrs monologue at the beginning. Maybe alternate between monologue and deep insightful voice-over journaling.