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The Starling City Times: News and Media about Arrow

Grammaeryn

By Grammaeryn
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I can't really buy that LoT is ruining Arrow. Season 3 of Arrow was terrible and that had nothing to do with LoT. For some reason people forgot about that.

 

I blame the writing first and foremost, and I don't think LoT is ruining Arrow this season. But I do think the insane amount of time they took in PRE- setting up LoT was one of the reasons S3 sucked balls. Because the time and money they spent setting up Brandon Routh/Palmer/the ATOM suit for the spinoff that eventually turned into LoT was unbearable to watch.

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Morrigan2575
Morrigan2575

I always find it odd when people blame the writing for LLs failure. I'll give them that for Lauiver because of the whole cheating thing but, let's be honest if SA/KC had the chemistry that SA/EBR had,

lemotomato
lemotomato

Sorry, that argument rings really hollow when the show has had a history of killing off/mistreating other female characters without a peep of protest from those same "concerned" people. Moira Queen, S

ComicFan777
ComicFan777

I know that this is supposed to be Felicity's dark arc, but...Felicity desperately doing whatever she can to save people (damn the consequences down the road) doesn't make me think that she's losing w

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Sakura12

Sakura12

Lame al Ghul, no one killing Malcolm, Laurel SWFing Sara and Oliver being the biggest idiot on the planet were the reason Season 3 sucked. Ray also sucked but the whole blame is not him. All those other plots I mentioned had nothing to do with him. So even without him in the picture those stories still would've played out. 

 

For me while the Sara storyline was stupid and did no favors for an already mostly disliked character, I feel the flashbacks are really taking away from the show. If they didn't focus on non-essential flashback plots they could focus more on the actual present day plots. Flash as a lot more character growth (except for Iris which is a different issue altogether) because they don't need to waste time on flashbacks. Those minutes can be used to see the characters talking to each other. 

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

(edited)

Ruining is such a harsh word. The LOT setup is definitely impacting how Arrow is telling its story in the first third of the season; I feel it has delayed Diggle's and Felicity's arcs, for one. It's a good thing I'm enjoying much of Arrow so I don't feel like the LOT stuff is "ruining" the show. Maybe one character irrevocably, but that could have happened even without the LOT setup. What it has done though is sour me on LOT. I was kinda "meh" but could easily have been nudged to watch it before. Now, I'm just totally over it and want it to go away. 

Edited by SmallScreenDiva
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

Lame al Ghul, no one killing Malcolm, Laurel SWFing Sara and Oliver being the biggest idiot on the planet were the reason Season 3 sucked. Ray also sucked but the whole blame is not him.

 

I didn't say whole, I said he was ONE of the reasons.

 

But Palmer was the main reason behind the scenes, imo. He was the one pulling focus out of Arrow in development. Because S3 was the first year of Guggenheim showrunning Arrow alone, with a writers room that doesn't really have that many experienced writers [Wendy Mericle is the main exception], while he was also splitting time with having to figure out how to sell Routh to the CW in a package that translated into the third show going on... and that took more than one pitch to get finalized.

Edited by dtissagirl
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

(Posting this here because I'm only interested in the Arrow portion, although you may wish to read the entire article.)

 

Jim Hemphill is a filmmaker who writes about film and TV - he received an "unsolicited Blu-ray" of The Flash S1 and subsequently watched Arrow as well, and was converted "into a devoted fan of a trio of TV comic book shows"...

 

Jim Hemphill (The Trouble with the Truth) Talks Greg Berlanti’s DC Comics TV Shows
NOV 14  2015  SATURDAY
http://thetalkhouse.com/film/talks/jim-hemphill-the-trouble-with-the-truth-talks-greg-berlantis-dc-comics-tv-shows/

... After binge-watching the first season, I decided to catch up with the series The Flash was spun off from, another DC adaptation for the CW network called Arrow. Arrow’s imagery and content is slightly darker than that of The Flash, but it shares its progeny’s fully realized characters, expertly crafted action sequences and seamless integration of theme, character, color and digital effects to create a unique yet accessible cinematic world. While Nutter undoubtedly gets some of the credit for these shows’ visual distinction (he directed Arrow’s pilot too), it remains in episodes helmed by other directors of varying levels of skill and experience. The other thing that remains is an attention to character and performance that makes The Flash and Arrow every bit as emotionally satisfying as more critically acclaimed non-genre programming – and far more affecting than theatrical comic book stories such as the Iron Man movies, where “character” is little more than Robert Downey Jr. smirking his way through the few scenes where his stunt double and the digital suit aren’t doing the heavy lifting.
 

Now, I’ve never subscribed to the idea that filmmakers are better off with more limited resources – having done a couple low-budget features, my opinion is that people who say you’re somehow better off with less money and time because it forces you to “use your imagination” are just trying to put a positive spin on the brutal realities of independent filmmaking. Yet there’s no denying that the limitations of television – combined with the talents of the people behind Arrow, The Flash and now Supergirl – have led to an embarrassment of riches when it comes to the comic book genre. Those three shows are all produced under the aegis of producer Greg Berlanti (who also produces The Mysteries of Laura and Blindspot – does this guy ever sleep?) and collaborators like Ali Adler, Andrew Kreisberg and Marc Guggenheim, writer-producers who share Berlanti’s gift for flawlessly juggling action, drama and comedy. Without getting into that tired argument of whether or not TV is “better” than film, I’ll just say that Berlanti’s television shows offer different – and for me, deeper and more varied – pleasures than their cinematic counterparts.
*  *  *
Under Berlanti’s guidance, those relationships can stand up to the scrutiny – unlike in many of the big-screen comic book movies, in which the filmmakers have to bombard the audience with visual and aural noise because they have nothing else to offer. Each of Berlanti’s three DC shows has a slightly different thematic focus, whether it’s family, class, and the tension between the needs of the individual and the needs of the community (Arrow), the desire to rewrite history and correct the past by changing the present (The Flash), or questions of what makes a true feminist and a true hero in millennial America (Supergirl). The ideas are meaty enough to drive dozens of hours of TV, and they’re expressed through characters who are impeccably cast across the board and made instantly relatable by both the specificity and the universal qualities of their emotional struggles. The amazing thing about all of these shows is that I would watch them even if they didn’t have superhero action – they work just as great dramedies, with wit, poignancy and charm.

Edited by tv echo
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Sakura12

Sakura12

Ray had nothing to do with the Ra's al Ghul plot, the Malcolm plot, the Laurel plot, the Oliver being a giant idiot plot. He was not the main reason for them choosing to tell those stories. If he wasn't there they still would've had those stories. So I don't feel he was the main reason for pulling focus from Arrow. The main Arrow focus stories were not any better. Ray only pulled focus from Felicity and Olicity. The rest of the awful storylines are not on him. 

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I agree that Palmer had nothing to do with those plots, but again, there was BTS shit going on: there's a lot of indication that they went with Cheap Budget Ra's because they blew the casting money on Routh, and that the fabrication of the ATOM suit took much longer than expected, which meant they had to stall all sorts of storylines accordingly.

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

In the end, Ray was a superfluous character that wasn't well written. He didn't add anything to the show, he just hurt it a little bit more what with his stalkerish tendencies and "Palmer Island". That being said, he himself didn't ruin season 3, he was just a small part of what ruined it (Because there is no one single thing that ruined s3). 

 

And I agree that MG probably had his time split between Arrow/LoT which is why he couldn't give his full attention to the storylines last season (which was pretty much non-existent. Nothing really happened in S3 tbh). So then it begs the question, is this the fault of LoT or the network for not promoting WM sooner to pick up the slack? 

Edited by wonderwall
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looptab

looptab

One of the major fails was that supposedly the theme of the season was "Identity", but the issue was never actually dealt with, except in the premiere when Oliver decides he can't be both himself and the Arrow, in a short conversation with Barry in the crossover where he states he feels he is losing pieces of himself, to jump on another approach entirely and pondering whether it might be a good idea to be Ra's al Guhl since in his opinion he sucks both as Oliver Queen and as the Arrow, to then having the Arrow persona stripped out of him, letting him finally free of just be himself. He didn't actually made a choice, he didn't realize he could be both. As much as I liked him leaving with Felicity, it was pretty unsatisfactory, as far as resolutions go. 

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Password

Password

He didn't actually made a choice, he didn't realize he could be both. As much as I liked him leaving with Felicity, it was pretty unsatisfactory, as far as resolutions go.

Maybe the conclusion was that he can't have a personal life and a vigilante life as the Arrow.

But he can as the Green Arrow. (Colours change everything you know).

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

(edited)

IGN: What’s it like for you playing a somewhat lighter Oliver now? When you think about what he was when the show began, obviously a lot has changed for him.

 

Amell: Yeah, I mean, we've been trying to find that balance. There are elements of the character dating back to Season 1 that I actually quite enjoy. I was talking a little bit with the producers about making sure that we don't lose sight of the ferocity with which we saw Oliver's entry back into Starling City. I want to make sure, in the battle to create real stakes, we don't undersell what a seasoned warrior he is.

 

Haha, he really wasn't happy about being beaten in two episodes.

Edited by Carrie Ann
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looptab

looptab

So you think he was talking about the action scenes and Oliver being beaten? Because when I first read it,  with the talk of real stakes and "seasoned warrior", I thought he might be referring more to a character trait, and used seasoned warrior as in "there shouldn't be much that shakes him" rather than the battle experience itself.

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

(edited)

I think the "real stakes" probably refers to the fact that they need to make the bad guys seem really scary and like a real threat, but he doesn't want that to come at the expense of Oliver looking like a super badass, so yeah, I think he's mostly talking about fighting prowess. Maybe psychological fortitude too, but I just don't think we've seen that factor in so far this season, other than that he seems to take DD very seriously. And that he didn't want to really get back into Arrowing, I guess, but that wasn't about being afraid or not confident.

Edited by Carrie Ann
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looptab

looptab

You're probably right, I hadn't considered that "real stakes" might be referred just to the bad guys. I went ahead and thought he could be talking about the death, or whatever he's going to face before getting there, and Oliver's reactions. Not something we've already seen, in terms of lack of fortitude, but that he might worry about, thus pointing it out to the producers in order to make sure it's there going forward.

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NumberCruncher

NumberCruncher

I don't blame Stephen one bit...they have made him look incompetent as a fighter more than once this season. Considering how hard he works to make his fight scenes look good as well as his real-life competitiveness, I imagine the dumbing down of his superhero skills is probably killing him, LOL.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

He's gotten his butt kicked in 5 episodes this season. Only in 406 did he manage to save himself.

Let's list them all:

 

4.1-DD beat him like a red-headed stepchild on the train 

 

4.2-Anarky outran him (yes, Oliver was hit by a car, but S1 Oliver probably would have planned for/noted the car)

      Anarky beat him, Thea saved him

      Thea beat him 

 

4.3-Double Down beat him on the first go-round, but Oliver did escape without help

 

4.4 (I STG, I had to look this one up on IMDB bc I could not remember what happened, it was so forgettable)-the anti-vigilante group beat all of Team Arrow

      Lady Cop got the drop on Oliver, Quentin saved him by speechifying

 

4.5-(I haven't watched this episode)-Sara beat him, I believe

 

4.6-Damien Darhk beat him, he got out himself

 

My main problems are with the Anarky losses and Lady Cop losses.  Obviously DD was going to beat him, and I'm okay with his initial loss v. Double Down, bc he had no clue he was going to come upon a metahuman (although, you know, Double Down just throws knife-like skin chunks, which is similar to throwing knives, which lots of villains do, it's not like he had laser eyes or some such, so maybe I have more of a problem with it than I thought).  

 

I'm totally fine with him losing to Thea and Sara, bc he was trying hard not to hurt them, and he did manage to capture Sara.

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

That's an odd line-up.

 

I'm assuming SA, DR and JB are all missing the screening then.

 

WH isn't even going to be on a panel.

 

No full Arrow Panel. The Lances?

 

What is Super Charades? Like all the celebrities play charades? Or the fans?

Edited by 10Eleven12
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tarotx

tarotx

WH probaby will do pictures and Autographs Saturday.

As for as the Lance panel, a lot of fans have wanted one with Caity and Katie so this is close.

I know it's here somewhere but what time is the Flarrow Screening event?

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kismet

kismet

EBR's interview on KTLA:

 

http://ktla.com/2015/11/17/emily-bett-rickards-throws-some-punches-at-sam/

 

ETA: It contains a clip from this week's episode if you want to avoid that.

Looks like I was right that it was a combination interview. Although most of it was about ARROW, they did have EBR talk about Brooklyn and the wording of the clip promoted both projects. So yay for me :)

 

But more importantly, it was a cute interview. If EBR does really box in real life, I wish they would incorporate that into the show.

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kismet

kismet

That's an odd line-up.

 

I'm assuming SA, DR and JB are all missing the screening then.

 

WH isn't even going to be on a panel.

 

No full Arrow Panel. The Lances?

 

What is Super Charades? Like all the celebrities play charades? Or the fans?

Guess they have to do Lance panel before its too late and they kill one of them off again. Use or lose it time.

 

It seems like the only ones who won't be able to make the screenings would be JB and perhaps DR. Unless I'm missing something, because SA has no events on Sunday, then again - I didn't check the signings schedule. Honestly, I feel like they will find a way to make it work. Even if SA & whoever needs to show up to the screening late.

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Chaser

Chaser

WH probaby will do pictures and Autographs Saturday.

As for as the Lance panel, a lot of fans have wanted one with Caity and Katie so this is close.

I know it's here somewhere but what time is the Flarrow Screening event?

I'm not sure the time of the screening, but the fans need to be there no later then 1:30pm.

 

They still could force them to go, but that would be really sucky for the fans on Sunday because it wipe 90% of the panel time.

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lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

I'm kind of glad there isn't a full Arrow panel. The one in Louisville looked like a hot mess. I'm hoping DR might crash SA's panel, though.

I'm considering going to the Lance family panel just to see for myself how they're received. And because I'm starting to find KC entertaining in a "what crazy thing is she gonna say this time?" kind of way.

Edited by lemotomato
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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

Guess they have to do Lance panel before its too late and they kill one of them off again. Use or lose it time.

 

It seems like the only ones who won't be able to make the screenings would be JB and perhaps DR. Unless I'm missing something, because SA has no events on Sunday, then again - I didn't check the signings schedule. Honestly, I feel like they will find a way to make it work. Even if SA & whoever needs to show up to the screening late.

SA has a panel with RA at 11:45 on Sunday and photo ops set up. But I think that might be early enough to still make the Screening.

Edited by 10Eleven12
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Princess Vanellope

Princess Vanellope

(edited)

Guess they have to do Lance panel before its too late and they kill one of them off again. Use or lose it time.

It seems like the only ones who won't be able to make the screenings would be JB and perhaps DR. Unless I'm missing something, because SA has no events on Sunday, then again - I didn't check the signings schedule. Honestly, I feel like they will find a way to make it work. Even if SA & whoever needs to show up to the screening late.

SA has a panel at 11:45 on Sunday, and his photo ops are before that. So he should be done by 1:00, unless he's signing afterward.

ETA: JINX!!!

Edited by Princess Vanellope
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kismet

kismet

SA has a panel with RA at 11:45 on Sunday and photo ops set up. But I think that might be early enough to still make the Screening.

Thanks, I missed it. I do think its early enough. I hope it all works out for the fans of both events. I'm not fortunate enough to have tix to any events or be in Cali for that matter, so its not big deal for me since I'll be catching the clips from this site anyway.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

If the screening is 5ish, everyone should make it with the exception of JB.

All that drama for nothing? That's disappointing. lol

It a guess, I don't think a time has been set. I just can't imagine SA not being at the Flarrow screening so I'm assuming there's enough time for both
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

So saw a promo about the Crossover where they then direct everyone to go behind the scenes at the fan viewing party (which hasn't happened yet so the promo seemed a bit premature) and hear from the show's producers and stars. Oddly, as they were mentioning the stars, the ones showed was limited to GG, EBR, and DR.

Earlier in the promo they did show Barry and Oliver together so maybe I'm reading into it, but since SA still seems to be at the con during when the viewing of the crossover is scheduled, maybe he really won't show up. The promo certainly seemed to suggest that.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

SA's interview

 

I don't know what the corollary is, I don't know what the precedent is in the history of modern television where you have three shows on one network, each with a distinctive feel.

It's nice that he's so excited for his shows but really?  Has he never heard of CSI, and CSI:Miami and CSI: New York?  Or the four Law and Orders?  Or three NCISs?  Surely he must have heard of the Chicago shows, Fire, PD and Med?  The last one stars a guy he may have heard of, Colin Donnell.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

I think it depends on how you define "significantly". They were different enough that I only watched one regularly, one intermittently, and one not at all.

 

I suspect that after a few seasons, Arrow, The Flash, and LoT won't be that all that different from each other.  As a start, this season Arrow is getting lighter and metahumans are visiting while The Flash is darker.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Are the CSI shows significantly different from each other?

Not one of them ever tempted me to even watch so, they all seemed like clones to me.  Same for all the Law and Orders.  The NCIS shows seem to have a different flavor but I still have no interest in the spinoffs and find the original fruitless. 

 

Last year Flash and Arrow were pretty different in tone but I found that a negative.  I'm not so sure there is a huge difference in tone now but in look and feel, yeah.  (It's always sunny in Central City)

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

So saw a promo about the Crossover where they then direct everyone to go behind the scenes at the fan viewing party (which hasn't happened yet so the promo seemed a bit premature) and hear from the show's producers and stars. Oddly, as they were mentioning the stars, the ones showed was limited to GG, EBR, and DR.

Earlier in the promo they did show Barry and Oliver together so maybe I'm reading into it, but since SA still seems to be at the con during when the viewing of the crossover is scheduled, maybe he really won't show up. The promo certainly seemed to suggest that.

Are you talking about this promo?

 

https://twitter.com/kalichica12/status/666796792143552516

 

What I got from that is they're telling you to watch The Flarrow Crossover and you'll get BTS videos from the Flarrow Screening that will take place this weekend (aired during commercial breaks for the episodes).  As for the clips they showed about the screening, that was from last years Screening, where SA/EBR/DR attended for Arrow and GG/DP/GV attended for Flash, along with the Producers.

 

CW did the same thing with the SPN 200th episode, during commercials they aired video and interviews from the 200th party and included that in the promos for the 200th episode.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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