Past Seasons Talk: The Tribe Has Spoken

[choclatechip45]

I mean if you want to read me that way that's fine, but I think Sandra played great in Pearl Islands, and pretty good pre-merge, and again good towards the end of HvV, and of course magnificent in the final tribal. I just think she played lousy post-merge, and it's sort of fascinating that it was that week or two of playing terribly that won her the game.

It's not directed at you. It just amazes me 5 years later people are still thinking Parvati and Russell should have won over Sandra or that Sandra didn't deserve to win twice. It's a topic on Reddit and other message boards all the time.

Plus I recently read Spencer's AMA and his whole thing about Sandra really annoyed me when he claims himself a student of a game (a term I hate) and claims the weakness of Sandra's game is that she could be voted off first. If you put any winner on any different season they could have been voted off first. Put Richard Hatch on the male Amazon tribe he probably goes first or Jenna Morasca on the female tribe in Vanuatu she goes first. Tribe draws are luck, Hunter from Marquesas could have been the next Colby if he was on Rotu. Plus lets not forgot Sandra gave Drake a huge advantage with her negotiating. Even if Drake looses the first immunity I doubt she would have been voted off first. If Sandra were to play again and was voted off first it wouldn't ruin her legacy to me. The only thing that would is if we have another player winning twice and it would depend who it was. If it was Tyson I would say Sandra is better. If it was Kim or Vecepia I would say they are better than Sandra.

Edited June 12, 2015 by choclatechip45

[ProfCrash]

Yeah the original tribe structure determines a lot of what happens in the game and the contestants don't have a choice in that. We have no clue how they decide who will be on what tribe. Hell, half the contestants this past season could have put on different tribes. Shirin could have easily ended up on No Collar, she does not work in a traditional work environment and has a pretty eccentric approach to life. Nina could have been on White Collar based on her job and job experience. Simply flipping those two would have changed a good amount of the dynamic. Nina probably is a better fit with Carolyn. Shirin doesn't have someone to geek out with and probably enjoys the naked swimming and body surfing with Jenn and Hali.

 

I would love a season where the contestants are put on the beach for a week without any tribe. No reward or immunity challenges. THey stat with a bunch of rice and beans so everyone is able to eat. On day 5 there is a competition, the top two contestants are team captains and then there is a school yard pick to form tribes. Let the contestants get to know one another, alliances start to form, and then tear the whole thing apart.  Of course, don't tell the contestants so they spend the first five days wondering what the hell is going on.

 

Now that would be some great TV.

[choclatechip45]

Yeah the original tribe structure determines a lot of what happens in the game and the contestants don't have a choice in that. We have no clue how they decide who will be on what tribe. Hell, half the contestants this past season could have put on different tribes. Shirin could have easily ended up on No Collar, she does not work in a traditional work environment and has a pretty eccentric approach to life. Nina could have been on White Collar based on her job and job experience. Simply flipping those two would have changed a good amount of the dynamic. Nina probably is a better fit with Carolyn. Shirin doesn't have someone to geek out with and probably enjoys the naked swimming and body surfing with Jenn and Hali.

I would love a season where the contestants are put on the beach for a week without any tribe. No reward or immunity challenges. THey stat with a bunch of rice and beans so everyone is able to eat. On day 5 there is a competition, the top two contestants are team captains and then there is a school yard pick to form tribes. Let the contestants get to know one another, alliances start to form, and then tear the whole thing apart. Of course, don't tell the contestants so they spend the first five days wondering what the hell is going on.

Now that would be some great TV.

I agree I remember reading somewhere that Tbird was originally suppose to be on Boran and they switched her with Diane because they thought she was to similar Tina. Considering how well Tbird got along with Lex and Ethan she could have won.

Look how lucky someone like Kat got on One World by the younger women having the majority.

Edited June 12, 2015 by choclatechip45

[vb68]

One more thing I wanted to say about re-watching the Philippines is that Lisa's and Penner's relationship dynamic is just utterly fascinating.  It has so many layers, and I don't know that we've seen anything like it in any other season.  They clearly have a personal comfort with each other that nobody else has, and he just seems to get her on a human level.  You see her visibly relax and let her guard down around him as they just talk.  And I get the sense that he's thrilled as well that he has someone who he can just chill with for moments at a time as well.

 

And yet, they never end up on the same side.  Penner is crazy serious about the game, and Lisa is just, well a mess to put it kindly.  She's someone who probably never should have went out there, at least not at that time.  She was clearly battling some inner personal demons, whatever those might have been, and she's all over the place with what she wants to do and what she can and won't do.  It was frustrating to watch as a viewer, so I can only imagine being out there with her.  And yet, despite all of that and Penner's clear frustration and exasperation with her as he scrambles to save himself, I would say he was the one much more responsible for all of it imploding around him.  She was ready for a legitimate final four offer and he rather snidely said "not now".  So she took the other offer on the table. As much as she yammered on about her word, I can't believe he didn't instantly realize it was a real offer and that she would have held firm with it.

 

Anyway, watching how those two interacted was really something.  I halfway wonder if they did know each other beforehand because it was so very complicated. 

Edited June 12, 2015 by vb68

[Trick Question]

One more thing I wanted to say about re-watching the Philippines is that Lisa's and Penner's relationship dynamic is just utterly fascinating.  It has so many layers, and I don't know that we've seen anything like it in any other season.  They clearly have a personal comfort with each other that nobody else has, and he just seems to get her on a human level.  You see her visibly relax and let her guard down around him as they just talk.  And I get the sense that he's thrilled as well that he has someone who he can just chill with for moments at a time as well.

It was indeed interesting for numerous reasons.  They're both actors, they're both around the same age and (this goes hand-in-hand) Penner was the only one who recognized her.  That scene where they're sitting in the water and Penner is asking how she wants to be remembered on TV is about as close as Survivor has come to a true fourth wall-breaking moment.

[Donny Ketchum]

Penner was the only one who recognized her.

Actually, Penner recognizing her was just an editing product.  Penner had no idea as to whom Lisa was.  The only ones to recognize her right away were Skupin and Denise.  Denise actually told Penner herself after she was swapped from Matsing to Kalabaw.  We just weren't shown that.

[ByaNose]

I'm still amazed that Lisa made the Final 3. I didn't see that one coming at all. The first few days when she was crying I thought she was so annoying, I had watched her since her Mickey Mouse days and always liked her but was disappointed in her first few days on the island. She had interesting realationships with Malcolm, Penner, Denise & Skupin. She wasn't a challenge threat but was in a majority alliance that suited her well. The Philippines first few days were awesome with Matsing being decimated and Tandang winning challenges and sticking together. I enjoyed the season and I'm curious how Abi does this time around without the later excuse of her leg being injured.

[Al Herkimer]

I'm doing an all-season rewatch in preparation for the 2nd chances.  It's been fascinating.  The first few seasons were such an interesting evolution.  I just finished Amazon, it was a real high point in my opinion.  A big part of that was Rob C., I need to check out his podcast some day.  I really feel like Matthew should have won, or at least got more than one vote.  I wonder if they ever considered bringing him back?  Of those five seasons, Jenna is the winner I liked least.  I can't go as far as saying that she was undeserving, since she won a couple of key immunities toward the end.

 

I'm two episodes into Pearl Islands and it's clear the show has hit a turning point, with more people thinking about strategy and less worries about who's "doing the most work around camp."  That "work" issue kept coming up in earlier seasons to the point were it was distracting because I've come to expect more strategy from the game these days.

 

I already see that Sandra was a stronger player in her first season than I gave her credit for, and that although I got sick of Rupert over the years he was a powerful and dominating presence in his own way.  Looking forward to the much-maligned "Outcast Tribe" switch because Andrew is such a bullying asshole and he's the one who gets burned from it, if I'm remembering right.

 

Next season is All-Stars, with the other seasons so fresh in my memory I think it'll be even more entertaining than the first time around.

[Skeeter22]

Savage is still bitter about Lill and the Outcasts. On the commentary for the Pearl Islands DVD, Savage tells Burton that he couldn't believe that Lill would be so bitter about being voted out and refuse to work with the Morgans while Burton was more reasonable and was willing to work with the Drakes. He says it's the difference between men and women, because women are irrational, of course. Meanwhile, Burton and Savage practically seethe every time she appears on screen. It's hilarious.

I love Pearl Islands. The pirate theme is probably the best thought out theme the show ever used and production clearly had a ball coming up with pirate concepts. The cast was amazing and Rupert, despite being annoying and overexposed, really was an amazing character who was just made for this season. The Outcast twist was totally unfair, but it worked so perfectly that I can't hate it. Johnny Fairplay getting humiliated by sad-sack Lill is the best villain takedown in 30 seasons of Survivor.

[Maverick]

Pearl Islands had some truly annoying or awful playets (Lill, Rupert, I loathed Johnny Fairplay) but otherwise loved Pearl Islands. I wish they would do the pirate thong again but since I'm assuming it was the inspiration for that Pirate Master failure I doubt we'll ever see anything like it again.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

that Pirate Master failure

Shudder.  I actually watched the whole thing (up until the abrupt mid-season cancellation) and I still could not explain the weird confusing rules of the game to you.

[Al Herkimer]

Savage's treatment of "Skinny Ryan" (I think he even branded Ryan with that demeaning nickname) pissed me off as much this time as it did the first.

 

There was a Johnny talking head in this third episode where he's sneering that Sandra won't make final four, and than he emphasizes that she definitely could never win, which was funny this time around.  Burton got booted.  This was a good season for seeing bullies get their comeuppance.

[LadyChatts]

I loved Pearl Islands more the first time around, but in rewatching, find myself not enjoying it as much.  The oversaturation of Rupert and what became the start of overly annoying "characters" on this show.  I know Survivor always had people playing to the cameras and putting on a persona.  But I agree with the posters in this thread who said with the attention Rupert and Fairplay got, on top of AS following this season, seemed to bring out the character playing more to the forefront, if people thought it would get them a return invite down the road. 

 

One thing that always soured me on PI was the Outcast twist.  I question if I would have disliked it so much if it hadn't brought Lill and Burton back (the two very people I wanted to see back least-I didn't like Ryan, either, but would have preferred him over those 2).  I don't think I wouldn't have minded seeing Nicole or Michelle return.  I was a fan of Andrew's back then, and felt he did get screwed by this.  He could have played nice to Lill, but I doubt it would have mattered.  She's one of the biggest goats ever.

[choclatechip45]

I loved the outcast twist! I  like it much more than Redemption Island.

[LadyChatts]

I loved the outcast twist! I  like it much more than Redemption Island.

 

I hated redemption island and hope it never comes up again (but it probably will).  I hated exile island at first but grew to love it, especially upon rewatching seasons where it was first introduced.  Redemption island?  Yeah, don't think I'll ever warm to that one.  Once your out of the game, you should be out.  I've lost many favorites prematurely that I would have loved to see back, but sometimes it's the unlucky circumstances of the game.  Like I said, I might have liked the Outcast Twist more if it hadn't been Lill or Burton back.  At least Burton came back playing the game; I will give him credit there.  Lill was just a floater.

 

One thing I liked about PI was the final 4 IC where the jury got to compete against the castaways.  I wish they would resurrect that, although I would maybe do it a little sooner than the final 4.

Edited June 13, 2015 by LadyChatts

[choclatechip45]

 

Like I said, I might have liked the Outcast Twist more if it hadn't been Lill or Burton back.  At least Burton came back playing the game; I will give him credit there.  Lill was just a floater.

 

One thing I liked about PI was the final 4 IC where the jury got to compete against the castaways.  I wish they would resurrect that, although I would maybe do it a little sooner than the final 4.

I liked it because it fit the theme  plus I hated Savage so I was  happy he was screwed over. I think exile is boring. The only time I liked Redemption Island was during BvW.

[ByaNose]

Actually, Savage is still bitter about the twist. When he talked to Rob for Second Chances he was still BITTER. I like Savage but I was like, "Dude, you work for Yahoo and you are probably rich. Get over it!!!" LOL!!! Hopefully, he'll get some closure (doubt it) this season. Between the younger studs, Terry Dietz & those conniving younger woman he doesn't stand a chance. LOL!!!!

[KimberStormer]

Does Andrew Savage really work for Yahoo? Do you think Shirin is his boss??  That would be amazing.  "Andrew, if you vote for me, you're fired."

 

I love Exile Island, for reasons I don't totally understand.  I always think of poor Danielle on the first one in the most miserable of conditions, and nobody ever even gave her any credit for surviving it, because for some reason everyone hates Danielle.  Exile was a high point of Micronesia (Cirie and Kathy going back and forth!  Parvati sunbathing knowing she had that game on lock!  Ozzy's fucking stick!), Tocantins (Exile Alliance!  Stephen's solo outing!  Coach's ostentatiously epic sufferings!), Gabon (The Sugar Shack!  Sugar waist deep in muck laughing at the absurdity of it all!)...I'm just a big fan. 

[choclatechip45]

 

Does Andrew Savage really work for Yahoo? Do you think Shirin is his boss??  That would be amazing.  "Andrew, if you vote for me, you're fired."

I don't think so Savage works in the legal department. Shirin is the Senior Director of Product Management. Marissa Mayer the CEO of Yahoo seems to be really good friends with Shirin tweeting her support for her and was at the finale. She did ask people to vote for Savage too.

Edited June 14, 2015 by choclatechip45

[LadyChatts]

There are a lot of good exile moments!  The Sugar Shack and Parvati getting a tan-loved it.  Parvati was at her best during Micronesia.  Going to exile and bragging about just getting a tan because she knew she was safe, then throwing that last individual IC so it wouldn't come back on her having to vote someone off.  During Panama, Sally got spared by being sent to exile when La Mina lost another IC, and Dan was sent home instead.  That season was already enough of a downer by that point, and having Dan around wouldn't have made it any better.  I loved during CI when Candice's former tribemates took pleasure in sending her there after she mutinied (and they started kicking ass being very outnumbered).  I remember one moment, after Raro lost the 2nd RC, that she cried and talked about what a good person she was, and she didn't understand why they were targeting her.  I sometimes didn't get the logic of when a person was sent to EI.  When the original Aitu tribe threw the challenge to send Billy packing, they sent Yul to EI and Billy said the reasoning was he looked like a smart guy.  If it were me, I'd probably send the person most likely to fall apart to exile over and over again (it seemed to help Kathy crack in Micronesia).  I did like that they took a break from the exile concept before they brought it back.  I grew to like it, but having it every season would probably get old.  My biggest concern when it was first introduced was that whoever was sent there was going to be screwed, from a strategic stand point, because they'd be separated from their tribes.  Glad I was also proven wrong on that.  

 

Jason finding Ozzy's fake idol was classic.  Out of all the fake idols made on this show, some realistic, he falls for a stupid stick with a face.  I used to think people who hid poorly made fake idols were clueless idiots and no one would fall for it.  Obviously I was proved wrong.

Edited June 14, 2015 by LadyChatts

[vb68]

 

That season was already enough of a downer by that point, and having Dan around wouldn't have made it any better.

 

Another board at the time nicknamed him Space Ghost, and that stuck for me.  Poor guy.

[Al Herkimer]

Finished Pearl Islands.  Production really turned a corner with this season, everything looked better and ran smoother, including the reunion.

 

I had forgotten how much Sandra had manipulated the others and how surprisingly willing she was to get in anyone's face.  Still, she only won because Lill (predictably) made a very stupid choice in bringing her instead of Johnny Fairplay.  It must have been very frustrating for everyone else to have to deal with Lill, who was not only naive like a child but also emotionally immature and frankly rather below normal intelligence.  Despite Jeff's informal poll, I'm not sure she would have beaten Johnny, anyway.

 

I have to admit the Outcast twist does come across as unfair, and as detrimental to the quality of the game.  Bringing someone like Lill, an obvious early boot with a terrible social game, back just in time for a merger was unfair especially as it was unannounced at the start of the game (unlike the hidden idols and redemption island).

 

The weirdest thing was something I hadn't noticed before - the final tribal council interaction between Rupert and Sandra was like a rehearsal for the same conversation they'd have a few years later at the final tribal council for Heroes vs. Villians.  Rupert, on the jury, saygin he should have listened to Sandra warning him about Johnny and her emphasizing how much she did try to warn him.  Replace Johnny's name for Russell's and it's uncanny.

[SnideAsides]

I don't think it was any less unfair than tribe shuffles have been. And it certainly made the season far more interesting than it otherwise would have been (compared to, say, Redemption Island).

[kikaha]

Still, she (Sandra) only won because Lill (predictably) made a very stupid choice in bringing her instead of Johnny Fairplay.  It must have been very frustrating for everyone else to have to deal with Lill, who was not only naive like a child but also emotionally immature and frankly rather below normal intelligence.  Despite Jeff's informal poll, I'm not sure she would have beaten Johnny, anyway.

 

 

Lill said she knew before making her decision that she could not win in the finals.  She chose Sandra because she liked her more, and felt Sandra's family needed the money more. 

[choclatechip45]

Finished Pearl Islands. Production really turned a corner with this season, everything looked better and ran smoother, including the reunion.

I had forgotten how much Sandra had manipulated the others and how surprisingly willing she was to get in anyone's face. Still, she only won because Lill (predictably) made a very stupid choice in bringing her instead of Johnny Fairplay. It must have been very frustrating for everyone else to have to deal with Lill, who was not only naive like a child but also emotionally immature and frankly rather below normal intelligence. Despite Jeff's informal poll, I'm not sure she would have beaten Johnny, anyway.

I have to admit the Outcast twist does come across as unfair, and as detrimental to the quality of the game. Bringing someone like Lill, an obvious early boot with a terrible social game, back just in time for a merger was unfair especially as it was unannounced at the start of the game (unlike the hidden idols and redemption island).

The weirdest thing was something I hadn't noticed before - the final tribal council interaction between Rupert and Sandra was like a rehearsal for the same conversation they'd have a few years later at the final tribal council for Heroes vs. Villians. Rupert, on the jury, saygin he should have listened to Sandra warning him about Johnny and her emphasizing how much she did try to warn him. Replace Johnny's name for Russell's and it's uncanny.

I've always noticed the FairPlay/Russell thing with Rupert's jury speech which is why I can never hate Rupert I think he's hilarious in an unintentional way. I think FairPlay would have beaten Lil.

[loki567]

People complain about the Outcast twist and I get why, but when you really think about it, the twist was actually an incredible success as it made the season WAY more enjoyable. Without it, we're in a showdown between Savage and Rupert. Not impossible that Sandra couldn't have won that way, but I don't think it would have been as entertaining. 

 

I always thought Kass was actually overrated when it came to down to her edit vs. her actual importance to Cagayan. She basically flipped once and really didn't do anything again. Lil? Was the actual Chaos Queen. She was Shiva, god of Death. She pretty much spends the back-half of the season, just wrecking people's games. It was glorious. 

Edited June 15, 2015 by loki567

[choclatechip45]

 

People complain about the Outcast twist and I get why, but when you really think about it, the twist was actually an incredible success as it made the season WAY more enjoyable. Without it, we're in a showdown between Savage and Rupert. Not impossible that Sandra couldn't have won that way, but I don't think it would have been as entertaining.

I agree. I think Fairplay would have done Fairplay stuff though, but Savage was a buzzkill IMO.

[ProfCrash]

Kass annoyed people and made for screaming, yelling, and some llama talk. She really didn't do anything all that strategic but she was a pain in the ass around camp. In Producer world, PTA = great TV and an amazing player.

 

Kass would have lost to Woo in the final tribal.

[KimberStormer]

Loki I'mma let you finish but Sugar was the greatest Chaos Queen of all time

[choclatechip45]

Gabon was a great season and It was mostly because of Sugar.

[Oholibamah]

Gabon was a great season and It was mostly because of Sugar.

 

I hated Gabon and shudder to think how much more I would have hated it without Sugar.

 

My Bottom 5 includes Thailand, Nicaragua, Gabon and Caramoan, but a new low was set this year with Worlds Apart.

[choclatechip45]

I've always like Thailand I find it hilarious.

[Al Herkimer]

Can Survivor contestants wear contacts?  Are they allowed to switch between glasses and contacts?  To put contacts in you need to have your hands very clean, which kind of seems like an unfair advantage unless they allow everyone to wash their hands whenever they want.  I wear contacts/glasses and I've always wondered about that.

 

I'm three episodes into season 8 (All Stars) and it's really great.  Everyone is acting out rather wildly.  I don't know if they're angling for airtime or if the pressure of being surrounded by other experience players is getting to them.  Rupert seems pretty crazed, in particular.

[LadyChatts]

IIRC, the first aid kit they give the Survivors at their camp had (or used to) contact lens solution and cases.

 

RE: Gabon.  I was so excited when I heard that Survivor was going back to Africa.  It was nice to get a change from a tropical island setting.  I've often enjoyed mixing the land locked locations in there (only downside is I enjoy the water challenges and you can't really do them in those locales).  I don't dislike it as much as some, but it has one of the worst cast ensembles ever, imo.  Sugar saved it for me, and even though I knew she had no chance in hell of winning because of a bitter jury full of jerks, I'm glad she was able to outlast them.  I liked Bob and was okay with him as the winner.  Crystle and Ken were my only other favorites, but everyone else I either don't remember or outright dislike.  Sugar is my kind of chaos queen.  

 

In my Survivor re-watch, which includes seasons that are among my least favorites,  I'm taking Fiji out of my bottom 10 list and moving it just on the outskirts.  The season improved once the merge happened and some of the more undesirables got voted off.  Edgardo's blindside was a big turning point.  I still consider it a boring season with a pretty bland and unlikable cast, but the better ones were left standing in the end.  I love when the likable underdogs triumph.  What really ruined the season was the whole haves/have nots concept.  I know this season was supposed to follow the format of CI with having 4 tribes divided by race, but that fell through when a contestant dropped out at the last minute.  So was the haves/have nots just a back up plan or were they going to do that once they did a tribe swap and downsized everyone into two tribes?  Either way, I'm glad it was an idea that had never repeated itself.  The haves had such a huge advantage.  

[Donny Ketchum]

In my Survivor re-watch, which includes seasons that are among my least favorites,  I'm taking Fiji out of my bottom 10 list and moving it just on the outskirts.  The season improved once the merge happened and some of the more undesirables got voted off.  Edgardo's blindside was a big turning point.

You thought it was the merge when the season got better?  I've actually thought for years that it was the swap that improved things.  All of the likable people were on one nuMoto (Earl, Yau-Man, Michelle, and Cassandra all on one tribe was, like, my Fiji dream come true, and I even said as much on TWoP at the time, and Boo and Stacy were on their way to improving their own likability after said swap), and all of the people who sucked, or were about to start sucking, ended up on nuRavu.  And the likable tribe won all but one challenge from the swap and on!

 

But I'll agree.  Save for the totally random twist that took out Michelle, the merge was wonderful, especially the Edgardo blindside.

[Oholibamah]

 

In my Survivor re-watch, which includes seasons that are among my least favorites,  I'm taking Fiji out of my bottom 10 list and moving it just on the outskirts.  The season improved once the merge happened and some of the more undesirables got voted off. 

 

Fiji is on the outskirts of my Bottom 5 but still in my Bottom 10. My next tier from the bottom includes South Pacific, Fiji, Samoa, Vanuatu and San Juan Del Sur: they all featured a considerable slew of unlikeable assholes, but still managed to have small bursts of entertainment.

 

No amount of Stacy, Earl, Yau Man, Cassandra and Michelle could counteract the rancidness of Dreamz, Lisi, Rocky and Alex. I can't believe that many asshats shared a season.

[Donny Ketchum]

No amount of Stacy, Earl, Yau Man, Cassandra and Michelle could counteract the rancidness of Dreamz, Lisi, Rocky and Alex. I can't believe that many asshats shared a season.

Don't forget to add Mookie to the asshat list, @Oholibamah.  He was right up there with them.

[vb68]

I still stand firm in my belief that Fiji is down there scraping the bottom of the worst seasons barrel with Thailand.   That Have Not twist just taints the whole thing.  I'll admit that I haven't watched it since it originally aired, and I have no desire to do so.  I remember thinking even "good" characters like Cassandra were mostly just so under the radar and overshadowed that they added very little to the show..

 

In Gabon, I did enjoy Crystal and for some reason it really tickled me that Matty was "Mrs. Roper's" grandson.  I imagined her cheering for him only to switch to one of her "Oh brother" looks.

Edited June 17, 2015 by vb68

[loki567]

I have Fiji in my top ten. I liked most of the characters and the ones I didn't like had pretty humiliating downfalls. It had one of the most likable winners ever, and the single best tribal council ever. I've heard people dismiss the season before because of the twist, but I've never quite got it because the winner came from the Have-not tribe. And I thought really interesting subplot that season was having those advantages so early on, was actually a huge hindrance to the Haves later on in the game. It took them too long to get into "Survivor mode." I don't think they had any of the real bonding moments that comes from suffering together and allowed too many personal issues to exist. Earl/Yau-man were able to take.advantage. It's one more example that you really don't start playing Survivor until you start losing, are really challenged by the elements and the other players. Too much success can be for a tribe long-term. 

 

And that reminds me, Earl was nearly cast on the original BvW. His wife didn't want to go but I think he'll end up on another season before too long. I'm glad that Survivor is starting to circle back on some of these "forgotten," seasons and giving these people a chance again. 

[choclatechip45]

Fiji is one of my least favorite seasons such a terrible cast. Plus according to Probst Fiji almost had Survivor canceled.

Edited June 17, 2015 by choclatechip45

[BigRedCheese]

I haven't gotten around to ranking the seasons, but I do remember Fiji fondly, at least parts of it. Yes, the Haves and have nots thing wasn't a good idea, but Yau Man was great, Earl was a great winner, and we had the car drama with Dreamz. If I ranked, it would probably be somewhere near the bottom of the middle, I do know Thailand would be dead last, and Pearl Islands would be near the bottom for introducing us to Rupert.

[kikaha]

Plus according to Probst Fiji almost had Survivor canceled.

 

Can you give me a source for that?  I ask because I did a quick web search and while I saw others say that, didn't find anything from Jeff.  Actually, Probst said CBS renewed Survivor for s15 before Fiji even aired. 

[choclatechip45]

Can you give me a source for that? I ask because I did a quick web search and while I saw others say that, didn't find anything from Jeff. Actually, Probst said CBS renewed Survivor for s15 before Fiji even aired.

I think it might have been in the 15th anniversary Article DaltonRoss wrote. I saw the link on reddit a few weeks back.

[vb68]

I could believe that it almost killed the whole franchise.  It was that bad. I think it was the worst cast ever.  Even Thailand had Helen Glover,  who was really interesting.  Earl was ok, but I wouldn't call him particularly memorable in the whole scheme of things. He was pretty bland and again overwhelmed by all the assholes around him.   I think it also hurts character-wise that it is sandwiched between The Cook Islands and China, both of which had really strong and memorable casts.

 

One other thing about that season is that I believe there was a lot of political upheaval in Fiji at the timing of filming.  IIRC there was a coup.  I've always wondered how much that affected production.   At the very least it had to make things very tense.  It might even be a minor miracle that they even finished filming and got out without incident.

Edited June 17, 2015 by vb68

[fishcakes]

If we had an Unpopular Opinions thread, mine would be that I liked Thailand. The younger, physically stronger team being completely befuddled that they weren't dominating; the fake merge; the baby bat and chicken feet funeral; drunk Ted; hot Ken; Robb and the stingray. Of course, Ghandia was a low point, but I thought Helen showed herself at FTC and the reunion to be pathetic and mean-spirited. She seemed to have a big crush on Brian, fixating on how he would whisper in her ear that the two of them were the only ones doing any work, and was even all swoony about him when she was telling her husband about their alliance. I actually think Clay would have won with Ted's vote because Ted was was pretty mad at Brian, had Helen not lied about Clay saying something racist about Ted. Ted admitted that Helen didn't tell him specifically what Clay supposedly said and when Ted and Clay asked her point blank at the reunion to say what it was -- and Clay seemed to genuinely not know what she was talking about -- she stared straight ahead into the distance and acted as if no one was talking to her. Ted said that Helen had earlier told him Brian heard it too, so they asked Brian and he got this panicked look on his face and said something like "it was a general comment," whatever that means.  In interviews, both Ted and Clay said they'd asked Helen about it after the reunion as well and she still wouldn't answer. I'm glad she's on the producer's shit list because I wouldn't care to ever see her again. And this is not to say that I wanted Clay to win; I just think it's kind of shitty that he probably lost based on Helen's lie.

[vb68]

 

I'm glad she's on the producer's shit list

 

Do we know that for sure?  Just asking because that's interesting.  I have to admit I'm curious about who else is on it.  I always assumed Fairplay was but then they had him back on.

[kikaha]

I think it might have been in the 15th anniversary Article DaltonRoss wrote. I saw the link on reddit a few weeks back.

 

I tried looking it up, and the closest thing I found was a 15th anniversary article Dalton published in EW on May 31, 2015.  In the article, Dalton is interviewing Mark Burnett:

 

Q: There was a time right after Season 12, the Exile Island season in Panama, where Jeff Probst was pretty close to leaving Survivor. Do you think the show could have continued without him?

 

A: I’m so grateful he didn’t leave. I’ve never really thought that through. Jeff is Survivor. He’s the face of Survivor and the executive producer and the showrunner, which in itself is unusual. It’s very unusual to have the star of the show also be the showrunner. But he’s done a brilliant job with it. I’m just really glad Jeff didn’t decide it was too tiring for him and too much, because I cant imagine Survivor with Jeff. Jeff is Survivor.

 

(Note, I'm sure Mark meant he can't imagine Survivor without Jeff.) 

 

Maybe this is not the article?   I feel it's important to  pin down the facts. 

[fishcakes]

Do we know that for sure?  Just asking because that's interesting.  I have to admit I'm curious about who else is on it.  I always assumed Fairplay was but then they had him back on.

 

I've heard it for years (because she violated her confidentiality agreement by writing a series of columns about the show for her local newspaper and after CBS intervened, her column was cancelled by the paper), but I don't know with certainty that it's true. TPTB tend to have a pretty elastic standard in this regard anyway; Russell Hantz gave out tons of spoiler information and they had him back, although they probably love Russell in a way that they don't love Helen.  I wonder about Fairplay too; I did hear that he was banned from reunion afterparties for a while, but for the show itself I think he was only on Probst's personal shit list, much like Colton was, and Probst evidently got overruled on that one. I would like to see a Do Not Invite Back list. I would assume it lists anyone who's quit, Brandon for safety reasons, and maybe Dan for slagging off the show so consistently in interviews, but other than that, I'd guess they'd bring back anyone if they thought it would bring in viewers.

Edited June 17, 2015 by fishcakes

[BigRedCheese]

I just did a google search, I didn't find the article, but I did find a post on Survivor Sucks referencing an article that said that, that post was made in May of 2013.

 

The computer I'm on isn't letting me do a copy/paste for some reason, I'll try later from another computer.

[choclatechip45]

I tried looking it up, and the closest thing I found was a 15th anniversary article Dalton published in EW on May 31, 2015. In the article, Dalton is interviewing Mark Burnett:

Q: There was a time right after Season 12, the Exile Island season in Panama, where Jeff Probst was pretty close to leaving Survivor. Do you think the show could have continued without him?

A: I’m so grateful he didn’t leave. I’ve never really thought that through. Jeff is Survivor. He’s the face of Survivor and the executive producer and the showrunner, which in itself is unusual. It’s very unusual to have the star of the show also be the showrunner. But he’s done a brilliant job with it. I’m just really glad Jeff didn’t decide it was too tiring for him and too much, because I cant imagine Survivor with Jeff. Jeff is Survivor.

(Note, I'm sure Mark meant he can't imagine Survivor without Jeff.)

Maybe this is not the article? I feel it's important to pin down the facts.

I'll try to find the article on reddit later when I get home from work. I totally understand wanting to see the facts.