Clock Tower Theater: Fanfic, Fan Music Videos and Art

[calliope1975]

Yeah, that was by TeaWithLemon. I really liked that one too.

 

Bummer. I just went to snag it before it's gone, but I'm not seeing her one-shots. 

[apinknightmare]

Bummer. I just went to snag it before it's gone, but I'm not seeing her one-shots. 

 

I wonder why she pulled those first? For purely selfish reasons, of course. 

[lemotomato]

Maybe because there are more readers of her longer fics and she didn't realize anyone cared about the ficlets? She pulled them even before she announced that she was taking her stuff down, because as soon as I heard, I went to look for them. I can't even find them via google cache or the internet archives. And someone asked if she could send them a copy, she said she had deleted them off her computer already.

[Delphi]

That's strange that'd she would delete it off her computer. I get taking it offline, but why would you delete fiction that I assume you worked really hard to write? I have awful works that I don't delete in case I want to go back to the idea or try to salvage things.

[EmeraldArcher]

MachSWickett has done it again! Chapter 30 of her Collection To Be Named Later builds on the Felicity dialogue that MG tweeted got cut from 4.01. It's brilliant and so freaking hysterical!

http://archiveofourown.org/works/3577293/chapters/9408513

[statsgirl]

Yeah, I was just coming to post that. Now I really wish the line had been left in.

 

 

The nanites

I think are only blocking her memory. I think DD doused her with good old fashioned LP water.

That's what stops me. 

In the first chapter, there's a description of her brains splattered on the floor. No matter how magical the LP's waters are, it's too hard to believe they could restore missing parts of the brain.

 

I could accept the nanites busting up a blood clot in an artery but there are just some times my neuropsych courses make me check out.

 

I wanted to ask you guys, fanfic writers and readers both, how you handle comments?  It's easy to say something when the fic is great because I can just say that. When it's bad, I don't say anything.  But what do you do when it's an overall good fic but there there something that doesn't make sense or doesn't fit into the show?  Do you just let it be and move on?  Or is there a way to say something about it?

Edited June 20, 2015 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

As long as you're nice about it, I think you can bring up anything with an author. The reception to that kind of thing will vary, because some people just write to have fun, and some do it to become better writers, and sometimes you don't know which is which. And, you know, some people just don't take criticism well. 

 

I think in this case you could probably bring it up by asking her how she envisions something like that working, since it seems to you that the injury would be beyond the reach of magic or medical science, and could she please explain her reasoning? It's not accusatory, and it gives her an opening to explain what she meant when she wrote it. Maybe she meant to convey something different than she did? Not sure - I haven't read this particular story. 

[calliope1975]

As a reader, I tend to only leave positive comments. If something really bugs me about a fic, I tend to just stop reading or ignore it. 

 

As a writer, I've had a few stories where I wasn't clear about the timeline or something else, and a reader pointed out that it was confusing. They were right, and it helped me revise the fic to make it more clear. Sure, it might sting to be criticized, but I have to remember what I see in my head or the tone the characters are using that I can hear as I'm writing doesn't always translate to the page. I think a genuine question is fine. So many people hated that I left Felicity's code name unsaid in one of my fics, but that was a deliberate choice I made. Being confusing or unclear is a fault in my writing that I need to be aware of and work on to get better.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Yeah, I was just coming to post that. Now I really wish the line had been left in.

 

That's what stops me. 

In the first chapter, there's a description of her brains splattered on the floor. No matter how magical the LP's waters are, it's too hard to believe they could restore missing parts of the brain.

 

I could accept the nanites busting up a blood clot in an artery but there are just some times my neuropsych courses make me check out.

 

I wanted to ask you guys, fanfic writers and readers both, how you handle comments?  It's easy to say something when the fic is great because I can just say that. When it's bad, I don't say anything.  But what do you do when it's an overall good fic but there there something that doesn't make sense or doesn't fit into the show?  Do you just let it be and move on?  Or is there a way to say something about it?

 

It really depends on the author. I sometimes look at the way they handle the comments on their stories to see if they would be receptive to critique. One time I reached out to somebody through their ask on Tumblr and I made sure to point out the stuff I really liked about the story first before raising the question :)

[Guest]

It's a shame TeaWithLemon is deleting her work. I read her note and understand that she wants to work on fiction but I'm confused as to why that means she has to delete her fan fiction.

 

I second all the comments about MachaSWicket though. She's AWESOME.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Guest

[Guest]

BTW. Here's some fics I've started reading that I like so far (some of them are just one or two chapters but I like where they're headed):

 

The Phoenix by SuperSillyAndDorky06 

 

While You Were Sleeping by Loulou26

 

The Reluctant Queen by December_Daughter

 

When my time comes around by nyclove3

 

Sight of the Sun series by theshipsfirstmate

 

No Way Out But Through by So_Caffeinated

 

I just realized that most people might have already seen these but I've not read any fanfic in a month or so, so I'm a bit behind! Check them out anyway! :)

[Chaser]

It's a shame TeaWithLemon is deleting her work. I read her note and understand that she wants to work on fiction but I'm confused as to why that means she has to delete her fan fiction.

 

I second all the comments about MachaSWicket though. She's AWESOME.

I used to read Chlex in my Smallville days and one of my favorite writers stopped writing to focus on original fiction and she deleted everything as well. I'm wondering if its something that is recommended to authors to avoid PR problems or even legal problems. I can think of two mainstream authors (the author of 50 Shades and Cassandra Clare) who used to write fan fiction and they both have had problems. I think 50 Shades is just generally mocked, but Clare has had accusations of plagiarism. 

[apinknightmare]

I know several fanfic authors who have been published, but they deleted their fics because that's what they were publishing. I haven't heard of anyone getting in trouble for fic they wrote that is unrelated to their original fiction. 

 

The only reason I can think for an agent to be worried about it is if the original fiction the author is trying to publish is very close to their fic. Otherwise I'm not sure why it would be an issue, but I don't know for sure. 

[Morrigan2575]

I used to read Chlex in my Smallville days and one of my favorite writers stopped writing to focus on original fiction and she deleted everything as well. I'm wondering if its something that is recommended to authors to avoid PR problems or even legal problems. I can think of two mainstream authors (the author of 50 Shades and Cassandra Clare) who used to write fan fiction and they both have had problems. I think 50 Shades is just generally mocked, but Clare has had accusations of plagiarism.

It might be, I know Marjorie Liu (writes for Marvel comics) used to run a Wolverine and Jubilee fanfic page as well as a forum before she got into the business. I remember when she first started out, she made a post about deleting all of her work and removing herself entirely from fandom. I don't remember if it was done in preparation of trying to land a job with Marvel or part of her Marvel contract.

[Luckylyn]

Arrow CRACK! Season 3 THE LOVE FERN

[Genki]

I wanted to ask you guys, fanfic writers and readers both, how you handle comments?  It's easy to say something when the fic is great because I can just say that. When it's bad, I don't say anything.  But what do you do when it's an overall good fic but there there something that doesn't make sense or doesn't fit into the show?  Do you just let it be and move on?  Or is there a way to say something about it?

 

I never post comments, and sometimes I feel bad about it if I like the fic a lot, but I recommend to others (here), and give kudos. But I'm pretty nit-picky so, I worry my comments would be received if there were criticisms.

[EmeraldArcher]

I never post comments, and sometimes I feel bad about it if I like the fic a lot, but I recommend to others (here), and give kudos. But I'm pretty nit-picky so, I worry my comments would be received if there were criticisms.

I've just started leaving substantive comments recently, and I wondered if that would be perceived poorly. I had been writing the usual brief comment about how much I liked the story, but I've been leaving more detailed comments about technique, characterization, etc., and I try to think critically about what the author has done really well. I've published fiction (not fan fiction, and not online), and I always craved feedback that articulated specific strengths and weaknesses. My father is a novelist, so I grew up around professional writers who critiqued each other's work.

I only leave feedback on stories I love--I stop reading a story if it's subpar without leaving a comment. Am I being obnoxious for writing positive comments that are 2-3 paragraphs?

[apinknightmare]

I only leave feedback on stories I love--I stop reading a story if it's subpar without leaving a comment. Am I being obnoxious for writing positive comments that are 2-3 paragraphs?

No! Personally speaking, always get really excited when I see those in my inbox.

[Happy Harpy]

But I'm pretty nit-picky so, I worry my comments would be received if there were criticisms.

And you'd be right to worry, imo, if things didn't change.

Eons ago (it was still the beginning of ff.net) I used to read fanfiction and give real constructive criticism. Mostly, I pointed out things I loved, but also what I thought didn't work, or what I thought could be improved, said as nicely as possible. I didn't comment on stories I disliked, or when I didn't find at least one nice thing to say to balance my comment. Except when there were things I found offensive, like rape as seduction, cases of Ron the Deatheater (before it was called like that) or plagiarism -and there, I didn't mince my words even though I stayed polite.

It wasn't only for the author, but also for the other readers. I , too, used to rely on reviews to know what I was getting into, avoid the kind of story I disliked, what was too badly written, plotted, or other OOC fests. OTOH, I was merely giving my opinion and didn't expect (less demand) that the author follow it, which was a given with most authors. The majority of them (adults or teenagers) were dedicated both to the source material and to writing, so even though of course they preferred praises, they welcomed any constructive opinion.

Then ff became mainstream, and so did the couple of fandoms I was involved in. They were invaded by nefarious types -including  hordes of teenagers and their high-school AUs written in ten minutes during lunch break- caring only about the number of reviews they got, importing clique-y behavior and ship wars. Not that it didn't exist before, but it was multiplied by a factor of 10.000. "Concrit" became synonymous to "long positive ravings"...any real criticism became a "flame". I found that  authors and reviewers both became entitled, generally; the former threatening to stop writing at the first "flame" or demanding a certain number of reviews before they posted the next chapter, the latter replacing informative reviews with "update soon" instead of writing even a short personal sentence about the story, or enabling the authors (Real examples transposed to ASOIAF:"I didn't read the books but Joffrey renouncing to the throne in order to work for Maesters without Borders in Esoos is absolutely in character" or "Who cares that it isn't spelled 'Joffery'?" or "It isn't plagiarism, you changed the names!") . I was floored to realize that a good number of people didn't write/read fanfiction because they loved the source material, but because it was some "it-fandom" and everybody talked about it.

I never had online harrassment problems, personally, because of a review I left (just a couple of whiny emails followed by a hissy fit because I was still as nice and polite as possible, but I didn't relent)  But with the obnoxious reactions and the huge drop in quality, I stopped reviewing, then reading (most of the authors I liked had stopped writing, some of them because the climate had worn them off).

 

So I'd say that before you leave criticism, especially in a popular fandom like Arrow, mind who you're adressing it to unless you'll feel you wasted your time and get a headache from rolling your eyes too much :)

[Morrigan2575]

The thing that worries me is that if you don't leave negative criticism how will they ever improve their writing?

There's one story I.just dropped that has typos, misspelled words, grammatical errors on top of a fairly bad plot/story. And the only comments are "great story", "can't wait for the next chapter" "Isabel is such a bitch".

If they never get feedback that says, proof read, get a Beta, at the very least run spell/grammar checks in word...they'll never develop, I don't think.

I do my best not to leave negative comments if it's story direction. However, sometimes it gets away from me and I give in and post.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

Some people aren't interested in developing, because they just do this for fun and aren't interested in becoming a better writer. Then again, maybe those people realize their limitations and wouldn't be offended by constructive criticism, because they don't care.

[foreverevolving]

The thing that worries me is that if you don't leave negative criticism how will they ever improve their writing?

There's one story I.just dropped that has typos, misspelled words, grammatical errors on top of a fairly bad plot/story. And the only comments are "great story", "can't wait for the next chapter" "Isabel is such a bitch".

If they never get feedback that says, proof read, get a Beta, at the very least run spell/grammar checks in word...they'll never develop, I don't think.

I do my best not to leave negative comments if it's story direction. However, sometimes it gets away from me and I give in and post.

I might be weird but I love it when people leave me negative criticism.. sure I get disappointed at first that they may not have liked my story but I see it as a growth opportunity for myself as a writer. Sadly I don't write as much as I used to.. real life seems to get in the way and my energy to write just goes away in the midst of it all.

[TrueMyth]

A little background on me and fanfiction: I started reading it over 20 years ago over usenet, though I rarely commented or e-mailed authors because I was shy.  I didn't start writing until the perfect storm of fandom and time hit me nine years ago.  I was fairly active on LiveJournal and had a great group of peer-editing author friends.  We even put together a fanfiction community, and one of our monthly awards was to excellent constructive crit commenters.  I lost my muse for several years and have only recently written a few "Arrow" stories.  Even with my experience (god, I'm so old!), I still feel anxiety when sharing new story. 

 

I'm also an English teacher by profession, a big part of which is providing feedback which will make writers grow in skill without giving up.

 

The thing that worries me is that if you don't leave negative criticism how will they ever improve their writing?

There are many ways they may improve without end user feedback.  They could get a beta (this is the major one for grammar), enter challenges (to inspire better plot), read more fic themselves (because reading does help writing), and, in the case of 'high school kids writing at lunch time,' they are not finished with their formal education and will have paid instruction to help their writing.  It is not the primary purpose of fanfic feedback to provide correction.  In fact, if all comments were critical, many writers would likely stop or be less inclined to share in the first place.  While this would improve the overall quality available, it would also shrink the pool drastically and it certainly wouldn't improve the writing of those who stop or never start.

 

Please understand, I do think constructive criticism is valuable, and I do appreciate seeing it on my stories.  However, there is a difference between what a good beta does during the editing process and what readers should do, in my opinion.  In the case of typos, oh, I hate when I find them in my own published work.  I once had a reader handle typo correction with great class.  She commented to tell me what she enjoyed (specifically, not just "I love it!") and gave me one over-all crit, and then she mentioned that she had found some typos and wondered if I would like them pointed out.  When I said "of course!" she followed up with her line by line feedback. I do wish Ao3 had a private messaging system, because that can also be an effective way to give more detailed feedback.

 

I believe some of the tension between crit and pandering comes from fanfiction's non-permanent status.  A web-published fanfic is, mechanically, easily edited, changed, or deleted after posting.  However, speaking for myself as a writer, I only post something after I've put several hours of work in for each 1,000 words.  I've brainstormed and plotted, discussed problems with friends, written, reread, sought beta help, and double checked final formatting.  By the time I'm ready to post, I'm a little bit DONE with the thing, even though it's never, ever perfect.  While I am interested in broad-stroke feedback on characterization, tense use, suggestions for dramatic plotting, improving dialogue tags, etc., multiple specific corrections are not motivating since I rarely revise after posting.  General suggestions give me something to focus on in the next story (which I'm probably already plotting or drafting) whereas detailed corrections can put me into a tailspin of self-doubt which makes further writing a challenge.

 

In summary, your main comments should be highlighting what they did well (so obviously only comment to fics you enjoy).  If you'd like to help the writer grow and had some problems with the story, include a generalized statement.  If you have spotted some glaring typos or are particularly confused by a scene but the rest is great, throw the author a question and leave it to them to invite your crit (it will help them prepare).

 

Finally, if you really want to help improve writing, consider offering yourself as a beta to those writers you enjoy who don't seem to have one (or could, er, use another).  Pre-post is where crit will have the best effect.

Edited June 21, 2015 by TrueMyth

[Morrigan2575]

Let me clarify, when I said negative feedback I didn't mean slamming or insulting or being mean to the author. I was talking about constructive criticism. I was talking about highlighting what I liked but pointing out where something was off or suggesting kindly that the author might benefit from a Beta.

If a story takes a turn I don't like, I don't say anything because that's certainly the authors prerogative. However, I don't see how it benefits the author or the fanfic community to just turn a blind eye to badly written fanfic or offer undeserving praise just because they wrote something.

When I do leave negative/constructive criticism I always couch it in a positive manner. I liked X but Y could use some work or I think you have a great idea for a story but you might want to seek out a Beta to help you develop it .

[Happy Harpy]

The thing that worries me is that if you don't leave negative criticism how will they ever improve their writing?

This type of fanfic writer doesn't care. They just want a pat on the head and be told they're Jane Austen reborn even though they write like the "author" of 50 Shades of Grey. I left the same kind of criticism as you do, but it's still considered "mean" and "discouraging", see below.

 

Some people aren't interested in developing, because they just do this for fun and aren't interested in becoming a better writer. Then again, maybe those people realize their limitations and wouldn't be offended by constructive criticism, because they don't care.

You'd be surprised. If you're constructive and polite in your reviews, in my experience, talented and dedicated authors aren't offended, especially if they feel that you appreciate what they write and respect the work they put into it. For example, if I left a remark like "It surprised me to see character A do this because [canon situation], but maybe I'll understand better later" often, I had polite turning friendly exchanges about characterization and the authors were obviously happy to have another POV, if only to reinforce their own opinion through discussing it.

OTOH, I gave an encouraging review to an obviously very young writer, who had good ideas but wrote 99% dialogue (and quite clumsy one, he said/she said/they said) so I added in the end something along the lines of  "maybe you could add some little sentences of description here and there, it would help your readers to picture the scenes better". All of her other reviews, and she had a lot, were "great story", "this fic is genius", "update soon!" etc. She answered with a passive-agressive A/N, about mean jellus people and how she "could care less" about shit like descriptions. Okayy.

 

That's why I mostly stay away. On severe  Arrow withdrawal after the S1 finale, I ventured on ff.net though, and I found one that I loved. I should research it, because something came up and I didn't have the time to leave a review, thing that I wanted to do for the first time in years.

It was an Oliver/Felicity one-shot, UST. She was hurt during a mission, he was all guilt-triping and she was all "my life, my choices". I remember finding the characterization flawless and I could see the scenes as clearly as if they had been part of an episode. I need to thank the author for reminding me what a great and enthusiastic experience it is, when you're fan of the source material, to read good fanfiction about it.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[apinknightmare]

You'd be surprised. If you're constructive and polite in your reviews, in my experience, talented and dedicated authors aren't offended, especially if they feel that you appreciate what they write and respect the work they put into it. For example, if I left a remark like "It surprised me to see character A do this because [canon situation], but maybe I'll understand better later" often, I had polite turning friendly exchanges about characterization and the authors were obviously happy to have another POV, if only to reinforce their own opinion through discussing it.

 

Yeah, this is true. My comment was mainly about people who are in fandom and writing fic because they like writing fic and are not interested in getting criticism because they aren't trying to better their writing. I write fanfic as practice and welcome feedback; some people just do it for fun. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

Short and sweet from wagamiller: In-flight entertainment

[BkWurm1]

I think in this case you could probably bring it up by asking her how she envisions something like that working, since it seems to you that the injury would be beyond the reach of magic or medical science, and could she please explain her reasoning? It's not accusatory, and it gives her an opening to explain what she meant when she wrote it.

 

In this specific story case, I too had a problem with the description of brain matter being splattered against the wall and then finding out she's alive and normalish.  I instantly rejected any kind of science-y explanation because there's just no way to put Humpty Dumpty back together again with part of his brain dripping down the wall.  So I went with MAGIC!!!! 

 

Honestly, the LP has to be magic if it can revive (potentially) Sara after a year or even after several days.  In this fic, it's impossible to make Felicity miraculously not being dead grounded in reality (unless they suddenly say she had a super-duper advanced brain scan prior to being shot that allowed them to replicate her mind but really that sounds more like a set up for a horror movie - they thought they brought her back but really...dun,dun,dun!!!)  This is one case where I think hand waving is required and I can live with that.  The writer is trying to sell the emotions, not the science so it's not a sticking point with me. 

 

With leaving criticism in general (and with receiving it)  I do think it breaks down into different categories depending on the initial overall quality.   There is a good amount of crap that is crap because the writer just doesn't have the voices down or makes the characters do and act wildly out of character.  I assume they are either watching a different show than I (and who am I to ruin it for them) or they are more interested in writing their ideas or original characters rather than worrying about writing for the characters on the show - which I'm not interested in reading -  so we part ways.   I just don't see the point in saying anything positive or negative at all. 

 

With terrible grammar or spelling or some poor soul's inability to start a new paragraph with each speaker or the stories written like a screenplay I also usually say nothing.  I mainly assume when I run across that stuff that time will take care of a lot of problems. I have to assume that they are just not that far in schooling yet.   I guess I assume that they are the proverbial 13 year old that is dabbling in their fandom and that's great.  I don't want to read most of those stories because I know how badly I wrote at 13 but again, if I'm not liking it, I wouldn't say anything because if they could spell better or make use of better grammar or actually use the correct punctuation, wouldn't they already be doing it?    

 

If there is something about the story I like, perhaps the idea, then I specifically will compliment what is good rather than the MANY problems that they are likely not able at this time to correct themselves...and then I probably will avoid reading anything else by them if I can help it.  The idea about a beta isn't a bad one, but again, if it is many pervasive issues even a beta won't help.  Time and experience will do the trick more than anyone pointing out the obvious.  If they are a serious writer they will get better as they learn and read , if they are just messing about, nothing I'd say is going to make any lasting impressions. 

 

For the very good writers, if something seems off, I would say something with no qualms.  Sometimes it's a typo or a dropped storyline or an editing issue or just general confusion.  Small typos' I might not say anything about but if it affects the understanding of the story, I definitely would.  For things that seem off (storyline wise, not so much behavior) I usually phrase it as "Am I missing something but it seems to say..." and go from there.  Sometimes I have missed a key explanation along the way. (Though I try to do my due diligence before bringing something up in the first place)  Quite often something has happened in posting it (Like accidentally deleted sentences) . Or it IS a plot hole but sometimes acknowledging it give the author time to fix it and even when it's a done deal, I've never had anyone act upset that I've brought it up.  Embarrassed a bit, but I've never had anyone upset. 

 

  I don't think any serious writers who tries to get it right would object to that kind of thing being pointed out. Like others have said, I LIKE critiques.  Someone years ago once said I changed tenses in sentences too much and it kills me that they never responded when I asked if they could give me an example  (cause I couldn't find it and that kind of thing bugs me)  I also like discussing things.  I like figuring out how I could have done it better.   I agree that it's a shame about no private messaging at AO3.   At FF I always sent my "fixes" straight to the author so everyone doesn't have to see the issue.  On the other hand, it's soooo much easier to edit something on AO3 than FF.net and if you send a review anonymously, the author can always just delete the post if it bothers them.  So maybe that would be an option. 

 

I think the one kind of story that I would be wary with is the stories that are just so-so.  Maybe a fun premise but the characterization is always a bit off (or a lot off for certain characters) or there are some formatting issues or maybe the dialogue is good but you never know who is speaking.  I think then you have to decide what you can live with.  I've finished short stories with bad characterization but I won't stick around for the long ones and I probably wouldn't ever say anything for the long ones. 

 

The short ones, again, I'd probably concentrate on praising what kept me reading rather than point out the bigger issues but if I did say something, I would make sure I was very specific on my criticism giving examples.  The author may or may not agree, but if you quote specifically the "problem areas" they can at least see where you are coming from.   I think I also would point out if knowing who is talking becomes confusing since that can just be a bad habit you don't notice (since at the author of course YOU know) 

 

Yeah, that about covers it for me. 

[BkWurm1]

I write fanfic as practice and welcome feedback; some people just do it for fun.

 

  Main rule of thumb, as long as someone is always polite and kind and IMO specific, you can say anything about anything to anyone without having to feel bad if someone gets upset no matter why they are writing.  In the end, anyone publishing something for the public has to know they are going to get feedback. They must take their chances like everyone else. 

Edited June 21, 2015 by BkWurm1

[apinknightmare]

  Main rule of thumb, as long as someone is always polite and kind and IMO specific, you can say anything about anything to anyone without having to feel bad if someone gets upset no matter why they are writing.  In the end, anyone publishing something for the public has to know they are going to get feedback. They must take their chances like everyone else. 

 

Yep, you are absolutely right. My point wasn't so much about critiquing as much as it was about people who would be open to critique. 

[statsgirl]

Thanks for everyone who replied to my fanfic comment question.

 

This type of fanfic writer doesn't care. They just want a pat on the head and be told they're Jane Austen reborn even though they write like the "author" of 50 Shades of Grey. I left the same kind of criticism as you do, but it's still considered "mean" and "discouraging", see below.

That's the thing though, the writer of 50 Shades earned a ton of money with some very badly written books.  Proof that you don't need to write well to get published, so why am I getting upset that someone is writing "her's" or "him and I"?

 

I used to do quite a bit of beta reading and I found people really varied in what they wanted.  We had one group who would send around up to eight iterations of the story while everyone commented on everything from whether something was in character to would that work in real life.  On the other hand, I have a friend who only wants the spelling and grammar checked and doesn't respond well to comments that something seems to be out of character.  (She's a beautiful writer on her own though.)

 

That's why I'm always cautious about what I say in the comments because I don't know how much the author wants from me..

 

Luckily this is a fandom with some of the best writers I've read, fanfic or not.

[EmeraldArcher]

 

Luckily this is a fandom with some of the best writers I've read, fanfic or not.

I agree! I am so grateful and impressed by the quality of writing and the intellectualism of the fans who post here and those who write fan fics. I'm even awed by the sensitivity and technical/artistic genius of the people making Arrow fan videos.

It just seems that so many other fan spaces are populated by illiterate (or just extremely lazy) idiots who spew hatred or even offensive praise (focusing on the ladies' bodies) without any evidence of critical thinking.

I really love it here and love being able to read posters' thoughtful analyses, snarky commentary, and informed explanations about what is going on in the Arrowverse. And, some of the best Arrow fan fic writers could easily be very successful published authors--they're that good! It blows my mind that ChronicOlicity is only 19 and English isn't her native language--she is a genius and such an incredibly talented writer!

[Morrigan2575]

Luckily this is a fandom with some of the best writers I've read, fanfic or not.

 

I actually think the quality of Olicity fanfic and the writers have gone down substantially this year.   It seems the really good authors have either stopped writing Olicity or have dramatically slowed down production.  Meanwhile there's an influx of new writers who are very prolific in their writing but really don't get the characters, tone or grammar correct.  

[EmeraldArcher]

I actually think the quality of Olicity fanfic and the writers have gone down substantially this year.   It seems the really good authors have either stopped writing Olicity or have dramatically slowed down production.  Meanwhile there's an influx of new writers who are very prolific in their writing but really don't get the characters, tone or grammar correct.

Do you have a list of favorites? I've recently started reading fan fic on AO3 and have read only a small number of writers because their stories are at least 100k+ words. Also, I've found older stories posted before S3, although I've liked the post-S3 Olicity speculation.

My three favorites are MachaSWickett, ChronicOlicity, and So_Caffeinated (So_Caffeinated). I also like what I've read from Bkwurm1, anthfan, The Laughing Duchess, and Thatmasquedgirl. I loved December's_Daughter's "We Might Be Brave (But We're Hollow)." I'm not really into the smut-heavy stories.

I'd love recommendations of authors or stories, even if they're about earlier seasons. I'd also appreciate suggestions of other fan fic sites; I've only visited AO3 so far.

[apinknightmare]

I'd love recommendations of authors or stories, even if they're about earlier seasons. I'd also appreciate suggestions of other fan fic sites; I've only visited AO3 so far.

 

I like the writers you've mentioned, but a couple that you haven't are theshipsfirstmate and CarrieAnn. Their work is definitely worth checking out. 

 

As for other sites, I think AO3 is your best bet. You can look at FF.net, but they have limited filtering features. Most people who post on FF.net cross post to AO3 anyway. There's also the Olicity fic tag on Tumblr - you never know what you'll find in there.

[Carrie Ann]

I'd love recommendations of authors or stories, even if they're about earlier seasons. I'd also appreciate suggestions of other fan fic sites; I've only visited AO3 so far.

 

I like the writers you listed too, EmeraldArcher, and I'd second theshipsfirstmate and add wagamiller and ash818 as some of my other favorites who seem to fit the profile of what you like. (Although Ash is mainly writing future fic about Oliver/Felicity and their kids these days, which may not be up your alley.) But my very fave is our pal apinknightmare up there.

 

And personally, I stick to AO3 for both reading and publishing, because I've never come across anything great that was only on FF or Tumblr, and I prefer the interface. One way that I find good works/writers in a new fandom is by checking the bookmarks on the profile of an author I really like. You can also sort by kudos, and that certainly cuts down on some of the chaff, but at the same time, there's a lot of stuff that picks up kudos due to length/number of chapters/amount of smut within, and it's not always reflective of quality, IMO. So I found myself kind of disappointed when I was first looking for stuff to read last summer until I started to do the bookmark surfing.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Carrie Ann

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, my trick to finding good fic is the same as CarrieAnn's -- stalking the bookmarks of authors whose work I like. :)

I haven't been reading much Arrow fic lately, but I'd also add Frea_O to the list of favorites. Though her fics tend to go more the ensemble cast featuring O/F as the main pairing, rather than just O/F. My favoritest Arrow fic ever is one of hers: Team Arrow adopts Artemis Crock [from the Young Justice cartoon]: http://archiveofourown.org/works/1991790/chapters/4314720

[wonderwall]

I'm really into Jules_Ink I like her What Happened in Vegas fic a lot. 

[Guest]

I'd recommend AO3 mostly but some authors on ff.net don't actually have an AO3 account so you could be missing out on some good ones there. I think you just have to throw yourself into the fanfic pile and see what you can find. It's very much down to individual tastes and I wouldn't always go for the most popular or prolific authors, or those with the most kudos. For example, anthfan is hugely popular within fandom but aside from one or two of her shorter fics, I actually don't like her work that much. I find her Felicity kind of whiny. And some really great fics I've read don't get promoted around tumblr so they end up with less views when I think they deserve more. I've found that the Arrow/Olicity fandom is very 'cliquey' so people often promote their friends and so on (which is fair, I'm not knocking that!) and so some authors who might be new but talented might not get seen by many people. Also some authors might not even be on tumblr so they're missing out on promoting to a wider audience. It's a shame.

 

I usually try to read most things and I can tell after a few paragraphs or maybe one or two chapters whether I'm gonna enjoy it.

 

Anyway…I second the recommendation for theshipsfirstmate. I linked to their stories in an earlier post. There's also a fic on ff.net called Under My Skin by LouBlue, and it's the third instalment in a series - the first being Secret Woman's Business and the second is Love Potion Number 9. I wouldn't say they're hugely in character all the time but it's some of the funniest writing and really enjoyable to read, as well as well written with interesting plot. Check them out. :)

Edited June 22, 2015 by Guest

[SmallScreenDiva]

From the tumblr of one of her friends, I read that the author deleted her AO3 account. The friend has no idea why, though.

 

Speaking of authors disappearing, if anyone enjoyed the fanfic written by TeaWithLemon, she's deleting all her stuff at the end of the month. So read/download while you can. She wrote a great winter hiatus fic-- "Pulse"-- and her story "Still" is how I wish the show had dealt with Felicity, Team Arrow, and Ray/ATOM.

 

Thank you for the recommendations. I just finished both and liked them. God help me, though, I'm reading her Felicity/Bruce Wayne fic and TOTALLY LOVING IT. Shhh, don't tell Oliver.

[Ang]

I'm reading her Felicity/Bruce Wayne fic and TOTALLY LOVING IT. Shhh, don't tell Oliver.

IKR?! It's a "what even is this and why do I love it so much?!" thing for me.

Speaking of theshipsfirstmate, I'm not usually into future fics with Olicity children, but this one got me: That's All You http://archiveofourown.org/works/4174755

ETA I just clicked over to Secret Women's Business and I love what the author has to say in her notes about Felicity! I'm excited to read those, thanks, Angel12d!

Edited June 23, 2015 by Ang

[lemotomato]

I actually think the quality of Olicity fanfic and the writers have gone down substantially this year.   It seems the really good authors have either stopped writing Olicity or have dramatically slowed down production.  Meanwhile there's an influx of new writers who are very prolific in their writing but really don't get the characters, tone or grammar correct.  

I'm pretty picky with fanfic, but I've learned to forgive a lot if the story keeps me entertained, and more importantly, gets finished. Maybe the quality of writers was better in season 2, but I feel like so many of their fics were WIPs, now eternally incomplete. I prefer the new crop of authors that write more one-shots and the ones that do write multi-chaptered stories tend to only have one WIP out at a time, that they update more or less on a regular basis. 

Edited June 23, 2015 by lemotomato

[TanyaKay]

I'm really into Jules_Ink I like her What Happened in Vegas fic a lot.

That one is my favourite and she updates it weekly. Her characterization is so on point that even though she has two original characters ... Something I am not too fond of, I really look forward to her updates. Jules_Ink is a really good writer and her previous work is also worth looking into.

[SmallScreenDiva]

That one is my favourite and she updates it weekly. Her characterization is so on point that even though she has two original characters ... Something I am not too fond of, I really look forward to her updates. Jules_Ink is a really good writer and her previous work is also worth looking into.

 

I'm glad she got back to it. She stopped updating it for quite a while. I think she's still in school.

 

I just finished "This Stage" by TeaWithLemon, and damn that was really good. All sexy and angsty and with pretty good action. I really like the way she writes (and that she hasn't been touched by the fandom words and phrases that drive me bonkers. You know the ones, almost every other fic has Felicity carding her fingers through Oliver's short hair, or their lips are crashing into each other, etc.).

 

Edited after I realized the Vegas fic I like is completely different, LOL! It's A Weekend In Vegas by BingeWriter.

Edited June 26, 2015 by SmallScreenDiva

[tv echo]

This set of 6 posters are really beautiful (one posted below) - done by a graphic designer in Belgium:

http://cherrychapssstick.tumblr.com/post/119047063127/can-i-say-something-strange-im-happy-by

 

[tv echo]

Check out this tie-in website for "The National City Tribune": http://nationalcitytribune.com

It mentions events from the Flash and Arrow season finales, and other DC universe places and people.

This is so clever.  I love the articles on Ray Palmer's disappearance and the new hero saving Starling City from the bioweapon (although these are outdated news items since those events happened in May and this newspaper is dated October 26, 2015). 

 

This fictional newspaper site was a "challenge website" created by Supergirl.TV (apparently the #1 fansite for the new Supergirl TV show) that was unveiled on June 22, 2015.

 

P.S.  If you go to the Contact page and scroll to the bottom, you'll see Kara Danvers listed as Asst. to Ms. Grant under Other Staff.

Edited June 26, 2015 by tv echo

[Balaclava]

It would be very interesting and something fun if someone in the Arrow fandom picked up that idea and did a "Starling City Sentinel" website.

[AyChihuahua]

There's an absolutely horrible (not horribly written, but the story is horrible) fic in which both Oliver and Felicity join the LOA, for real, not to take it down.  They both go evil, have evil kids, and then Oliver sticks a sword in Felicity when her insufficient evilness confuses their kids, or something.  I barely skimmed because it enraged me.  There is no universe, ever, in which Oliver and Felicity would go evil and raise evil kids and/or in which Oliver would slice and dice Felicity.  Just warning everyone.  I think it's by Niaa or something like that.  I refuse to look up the author because it's so ridiculous.  I think it should be tagged "MASSIVELY OOC."

[Chaser]

Sometimes when I'm skimming fanfic summaries I have to remind myself that I don't judge people and everyone is entitled to their imaginations. But yeah, I nope so hard sometimes I give myself whiplash.  

[arjumand]

There's an absolutely horrible (not horribly written, but the story is horrible) fic in which both Oliver and Felicity join the LOA, for real, not to take it down.  They both go evil, have evil kids, and then Oliver sticks a sword in Felicity when her insufficient evilness confuses their kids, or something.  I barely skimmed because it enraged me.  There is no universe, ever, in which Oliver and Felicity would go evil and raise evil kids and/or in which Oliver would slice and dice Felicity.  Just warning everyone.  I think it's by Niaa or something like that.  I refuse to look up the author because it's so ridiculous.  I think it should be tagged "MASSIVELY OOC."

 

Was that the one in which there was something like a 7-year time jump in between Felicity marrying R'as al Ghul Oliver and the story resuming? Because that's when I just went 'game over, man'. To me, it's a cop out when you introduce some massive crazy universe altering concept, and then you do a "seven years later . . ." You need to commit to your universe. To be honest, those people weren't Felicity and Oliver, at least not what they are on the show.

 

Lately I've been going through a lot of Arrow fics, and sometimes it's pretty depressing. Not just the "this is my first fic and I suck at summary's [sic]", not beta'd so be merciful, etc. To the last one, no. Not that I'll give any concrit, I'll just click out, rolling my eyes. See, I don't use a beta, either - but that just means I go over my chapter a hundred times before I decide to post, and sometimes I even print it out, because things that I missed on the screen usually jump out at me on paper. No, it's often the characterisation which is so OOC it's painful. Or even spelling mistakes which aren't typos, because they're repeated in the story - like 'breath' for 'breathe', for example. Or the use of epithets: the vigilante, the archer, the blonde woman, the IT specialist, and so on. Just no, ok. First of all, how many people are in this bed, anyway? And secondly - there are names, and there are pronouns. Use them.

 

Reading the last few posts, I tried to isolate my attitude to concrit. See, like TrueMyth I'm an English teacher, and going through fanfic and sending in a list of typos or grammar missteps is too much like work for me. And with things like characterisation, I suspect the answer I'd get would be "but that's how I see Oliver, and I'm doing this for fun, so leave me alone". I also firmly believe that you should be asked for criticism before you offer it, even if it's constructive. No matter how well-intentioned you are, it's always someone's baby you're tearing into. I remember my first experience with asking for constructive criticism, with a fic outside Arrow fandom, and getting back a fic which was full of notes - it was a word doc, and was just packed with those overlapping bubbles, and it was a real shock, even though I'd asked for it.

 

So, criticism of my own work - I dunno. To tell me you've spotted a typo, or a missing comma, fine. To argue plot points, or why I wrote in this event, and not that - dude, I spent over a week polishing this thing, I went to the little details lj comm to ask for specific stuff, I tried to remember my very rudimentary junior high Arabic course, and then I discarded most of a chapter because I didn't think it worked and rewrote it. So, no thank you. I remember reading some advice on writing, and I wish I could remember where it was from - go to the line or paragraph or sentence which you are most proud of. Then delete it. Because if you think it's so amazing, it must somehow jar with the rest of your writing (I'm not explaining this very well, but it certainly worked for me). I've been doing this so much lately.

 

I like discussion of my fic, more than I enjoy the "great chapter, write more soon" comment, and I'll answer and continue the discussion. That's real fun, and the best thing is, I actually got an idea from a comment which sent my story in a completely different direction. Yay|

Though as an aside - Arrow fic fandom is very intense, at least compared to other fandoms I've written in. I've never been stalked by someone telling me my story is bad and I should feel bad, before.

 

I'm still enjoying myself, though - it's a good feeling, as it's been a while for me, after a massive case of writer's block. I found Oliver in the League of Assassins get-up to be very inspiring!