Heather Thomson: Inventor of Yummie Tummie

[motorcitymom65]

And viewers are increasingly disliking Heather this season, but I often see that attributed to editing - which does indeed apply to certain aspects of the presentation of Heather that production appears to be advancing - and not to Heather's own agency. There are many instances upthread of the double standard for Heather, imo (Carole's sympathetic perspective trumps and/or delegitimizes any less flattering interpretations of Heather's conduct; helpfulness vs. "I'm going to have to separate you two"/"i can tell you what I want to fucking tell you!"; that big heart vs. laughing over and/or dismissing other's turmoil; Aviva and Ramona being racist for "did you learn that in prison"/"125th street" vs. Heather's unoffensive "scully caps"/rip her leg off "and beat her ass"; Aviva's promotion of philanthropy being only for show vs. Heather's pure-hearted shutouts to charities on social media; the idea that Heather lovingly asked Jonathon not to take up her fight vs "get out of this right now") but I actually think that the finale party for whatever project Sonja was undertaking at the time was pretty emblematic of the dynamic between the women at the time and neatly reflective of all their foibles. Sure, Aviva participated in the debacle by but throwing her prosthesis in a grab for attention. . . but that was certainly far from the only (and, for me, far from the weirdest) instance of Kafkaesque nonsense. Kristen, of all people, actually was the motor for much of the confrontation and exhibited some of the most peculiar behavior. She was the first to significantly engage Aviva, dramatically and grandiosely booming, "there is something MUCH DEEPER going on with you, and you need to be honest about what it is!" I still have no clue what she was referring to, why she cared so much since she was on the hater train by then, and how that language (which seems more appropriate for a substance abuse intervention or exhorting someone to relive past trauma) was consistent with their ire about Aviva's refusal to participate in Montana (they sure talked about Aviva even if they didn't film with her). Then LuAnn and Kristen *literally proceed to grasp their chests and mimic hyperventilating* all because Aviva brought X-rays to back up her story (documentation to support a claim is not unprecedented on this franchise). And Heather (who, it should be noted again, Aviva never committed any offense against but who could not stop attacking when Carole was already disengaging from Aviva) managed to scream and posture about "not having time for this!" (it sure looked like she had time when she was directing ire at her husband for having the temerity to try to stop her from chasing Amanda, or when she was screaming at Aviva, playing victim to Reid, and contending that Aviva had "sicced" Amanda on her, and so on and so forth) . . . which, when you're screaming and yelling in front of a reality tv camera kind of undermines your thesis. So all fully participated in a very bizarre pileup of neuroses and misconduct, Heather very robustly.

Of course a lot of people don't like Heather, and no question that number has grown more than last year. Some of it is probably editing, but a lot of it is just Heather. Many people didn't like her last year either.  There is zero way to compare the feelings that the audience has for Heather and what they had for Aviva. I don't even think it is close. People began to hate her with her "white trash" and "what, no banner" talk. People hated what they saw as an entitled attitude, even if most people thought that Ramona and Sonja were ridiculous with their drunken antics. To be honest, I didn't completely get all the anger because I didn't feel that way about Aviva at that time. At all. I was rooting for her 100% even though I thought what she was saying was wrong. I'm like the justice system. I give people a less harsh sentence for crimes of passion. I can easily forgive someone for saying/doing something when they are terribly angry, probably because this is a bad trait of mine. When it is premeditated, then lock them up and throw away the key. Aviva's really nasty stuff IMO was premeditated to hurt, harm, or embarrass. Then of course you had her terrible father. It might be fair, it might be unfair, but Aviva had zero chance of every overcoming the feelings that were assigned to her because of her disgusting father. 

 

The hate for Aviva was real, and quite frankly, something I don't remember ever seeing quite in the same manner before. Maybe with Jill? It was so different even from the hate that people came to have for Brandi. The Brandi hate was less about who she was as a person, and more about the target of her venom (Lisa V). Everyone loved her behavior until it was turned on the person they loved. Not with Aviva. It didn't matter if she was being nasty to someone the audience liked or not, she was judged equally regardless. IMO that is always a huge sign of a HW's demise.

 

I could be guilty of putting too much emphasis on the feelings of the other HW's on the show, but I also think this is a huge indicator or someone's awfulness. When the audience reaches such a level of dislike, and you also have the other HW's turning on them, it generally means they are horrible. It might not always be the case, but I think that in general the rule holds. This is one of the reasons I have never completely given up on Ramona. I actually think she is perhaps the nastiest of all the HW's, but the other gals have a soft spot for her. Even with the things she has said and done over the years, they are all rooting for her and most of them stay in contact with her when not filming. IMO that says something about her. Even with all that has gone on with Heather this year, she still has the support of most of the cast. They might get irritated with her or think that she is bossy or controlling, but I've never heard anyone say they don't trust her or question her character. They think she is a good person at her core.  I would bet you money that every single one of them would say that about her. They know her far better than we do and they seem to dig her. 

Edited June 12, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[SCS]

Here's where you might change your mind because I'm about to call a bunch of 5 - 8 year olds, little fuckers. LOL During a recess, a few of my kindergartners and some 2nd graders took one arm out of their sleeves, tucking their arm down into their shirts, letting the other sleeve dangle armless.  And then ran around the playground taunting this child.  One little fucker hung from the monkey bars with one hand while the empty sleeve was a-blowin' in the wind.  The boy was timid by nature and clung close to me during recess but if you could feel what I felt that day - how rigid his little body was.  He didn't cry.  He whimpered.  Oh my god, I just called 5 year olds little fuckers but damn if my heart didn't break and isn't breaking right now recalling what they did.  If I have flashbacks and nightmares from recalling that, imagine the kid.  And then 11 more years of it. 

 

Hopefully by college, kids were more mature than that but I dunno, because the coven of HW witches were in their 40s and still making fun of an amputee. 

 

I'm not saying Aviva didn't deserve getting called out by them and us but what these 'nurturing', 'good mothers' did was beyond the pale.  You can bet Heather and Kristen would be the first ones in the principal's office (Heather in her skully) if their children were picked on like that for their disabilities. As they should be.

Probably one of the best and most eye opening posts ever re this so-called reality BS. You have given me some stuff to think about and I thank you for that.

[Lisin]

This is Heather's topic. 

 

Aviva has a topic. There is a past seasons topic, there are even topics for the episodes from last season... please take discussion of Aviva to her topic and if you want to go over stuff that happened last season with everyone take it to the past season threads. Thanks.

[zoeysmom]

Never having particularly liked Heather, this season is pretty hard to watch seeing her take the hard knocks.  It is as if all the things I did not care for her about her have been amplified and began annoying the rest of the cast.  I guess because I found Heather and Jonathan to be fundamentally decent citizens of the planet, her annoying speech habits, nicknaming and personality quirks, were just part of the package.  This year they just seem to be center stage.     From her initial introduction and having to be asked to dial it back by Mario and Ramona ( I honestly thought that was a little chickenshit, to me it seemed that Ramona and Mario were giving her some advice on how to deal with the cameras and she took it the wrong way and ran with it), to the insanely annoying Holla and three seasons in she is still using the tired old line, but the most annoying is her arrival anywhere and thinking she needs to be in charge.  The second category was her behavior and her seriously low brow house in The Berkshires, that somehow everyone was suppose to be so grateful for going to in the middle of a heat wave, with no air conditioning.  I get she liked her house and it just wasn't her place to test the other women's "realness" by trying to be a RH version of the simple life.

 

The things that make her very real to me are her stating the obvious.  LuAnn should not be having the treat Bethenny with kid gloves because 40 years ago she suffered some childhood trauma and it is now up to us to be here for her and take the insults.  I thought Heather was a bit rude at the dinner to Bethenny and her surprise visit and Bethenny has been very rude since her arrival at LuAnn's (I flew in)  in Sag Harbor and pretty much commandeering the herd.  I applauded Heather for twice trying to explain and explain very nicely to Bethenny that she had offended people.  Bethenny callous disregard for anyone but her own feelings have been highlighted by her conversations with Bethenny.  I think heather also truly likes to make people feel comfortable.

 

I will say this Heather has had three seasons to weigh and read what annoys people about her and she has exactly ZERO regrets and seems to amplified the nicknaming, Holla, mother*ker, downtown kick ass attitude.  It is almost as if she wants to make people like it instead of reflecting on how effing annoying these affectations are to others.

[WireWrap]

Never having particularly liked Heather, this season is pretty hard to watch seeing her take the hard knocks.  It is as if all the things I did not care for her about her have been amplified and began annoying the rest of the cast.  I guess because I found Heather and Jonathan to be fundamentally decent citizens of the planet, her annoying speech habits, nicknaming and personality quirks, were just part of the package.  This year they just seem to be center stage.     From her initial introduction and having to be asked to dial it back by Mario and Ramona ( I honestly thought that was a little chickenshit, to me it seemed that Ramona and Mario were giving her some advice on how to deal with the cameras and she took it the wrong way and ran with it), to the insanely annoying Holla and three seasons in she is still using the tired old line, but the most annoying is her arrival anywhere and thinking she needs to be in charge.  The second category was her behavior and her seriously low brow house in The Berkshires, that somehow everyone was suppose to be so grateful for going to in the middle of a heat wave, with no air conditioning.  I get she liked her house and it just wasn't her place to test the other women's "realness" by trying to be a RH version of the simple life.

 

The things that make her very real to me are her stating the obvious.  LuAnn should not be having the treat Bethenny with kid gloves because 40 years ago she suffered some childhood trauma and it is now up to us to be here for her and take the insults.  I thought Heather was a bit rude at the dinner to Bethenny and her surprise visit and Bethenny has been very rude since her arrival at LuAnn's (I flew in)  in Sag Harbor and pretty much commandeering the herd.  I applauded Heather for twice trying to explain and explain very nicely to Bethenny that she had offended people.  Bethenny callous disregard for anyone but her own feelings have been highlighted by her conversations with Bethenny.  I think heather also truly likes to make people feel comfortable.

 

I will say this Heather has had three seasons to weigh and read what annoys people about her and she has exactly ZERO regrets and seems to amplified the nicknaming, Holla, mother*ker, downtown kick ass attitude.  It is almost as if she wants to make people like it instead of reflecting on how effing annoying these affectations are to others.

No one has complained, cast wise, about the Holla or the Mama habit until this season so I can't fault her on that until next season if she continues it. As for her swearing, they all drop the F bomb time to time and she, herself, has not used it much this season so far, so again, not a big deal to me. The nickname's were never an issue to the other women either, none of them, only Bethenny has complained about it with Ramona now backing up Bethenny. IMO, Ramona and Sonja will do/say whatever Bethenny says/feels/wants because they know she will turn on them in a nano second and fear that what happened to Jill may also happen to them. Although Heather is far from perfect, at least she tries to give the others a chance before she shuts them out, Bethenny requires that the others allow her to dictate who, what, where, when and why at all times before she even gives that person a chance to stand next to her.  JMO

[film noire]

 During a recess, a few of my kindergartners and some 2nd graders took one arm out of their sleeves, tucking their arm down into their shirts, letting the other sleeve dangle armless.  And then ran around the playground taunting this child.  One little fucker hung from the monkey bars with one hand while the empty sleeve was a-blowin' in the wind.  The boy was timid by nature and clung close to me during recess but if you could feel what I felt that day - how rigid his little body was.  He didn't cry.  He whimpered.  Oh my god, I just called 5 year olds little fuckers but damn if my heart didn't break and isn't breaking right now recalling what they did.  If I have flashbacks and nightmares from recalling that, imagine the kid.  And then 11 more years of it. 

Oh, ryebread -- goddamn, that's a hard one -- that poor little boy.  Thank god he had you to lean against (and I'm sure it wasn't easy sharing that story -- so thank you).

Edited June 13, 2015 by film noire

[Mya Stone]

I'm all for snark. I am. But I don't think comparing a Real Housewife who uses certain verbiage to a woman who was delusional enough to try and pull off the plot of Soul Man is appropriate.

[ryebread]

As for her swearing, they all drop the F bomb time to time and she, herself, has not used it much this season so far, so again, not a big deal to me.

 

No they all don't.  Who else on RHONY drops the f bomb?  And even if they did, it's not the word itself that's so off-putting to some people (although it can be) it's how when Heather uses it, she's always angry and aggressive. 

 

I've never seen her laughing at a joke and saying, "That was so fucking funny."  Or taking a bite of caviar and exclaiming that it's "fucking amazing". 

[motorcitymom65]

No one has complained, cast wise, about the Holla or the Mama habit until this season so I can't fault her on that until next season if she continues it. As for her swearing, they all drop the F bomb time to time and she, herself, has not used it much this season so far, so again, not a big deal to me. The nickname's were never an issue to the other women either, none of them, only Bethenny has complained about it with Ramona now backing up Bethenny. IMO, Ramona and Sonja will do/say whatever Bethenny says/feels/wants because they know she will turn on them in a nano second and fear that what happened to Jill may also happen to them. Although Heather is far from perfect, at least she tries to give the others a chance before she shuts them out, Bethenny requires that the others allow her to dictate who, what, where, when and why at all times before she even gives that person a chance to stand next to her.  JMO

This all day long. I am all about self-reflecting, especially if what ever you are not accurately assessing about yourself is harming your relationships or ultimately making you unhappy. I don't see any of this in Heather. Others on the show have certainly mocked some of her language, but I have never seen a lot of examples of someone just not liking her for it. Even Ramona, who seems to agree with a lot of the comments I've read here, that white people need to talk like white people (whatever the fuck that even means) doesn't seem to let this get in the way of her actually liking Heather. If Heather's use of the word "holla" is something that harms her important relationships, if for instance Jon walked in one day and said "say holla just one more time Heather and I'm out of here", then perhaps she should think about this. Since I cannot imagine anyone that actually likes or cares about her giving a rats ass about something like this, why should she change? There isn't a single HW on any of these shows that doesn't say/do things that irritate some people. Even Lisa V, maybe the most beloved HW of all time irritates some people with her "pink pussy" type talk. Since Ken and her family still love her, she is successful, happy and able to move on with her life, my thoughts are that she has exactly two fucks to give about the people who don't like her for this. If someone said to me that they would like me more if I changed some of these things about myself, I would tell them that I guess it's too bad that we won't be friends then.  

[imjagain]

I never realized saying Fuck while laughing was more acceptable?

As a person who said fuck in an  angry aggressive way just a few days ago, I don't apologize.

 

I was being followed through stores (3 in the mall) by some asshole who thought following was flirting, I stopped looked at him and said "what the fuck do you want?" he stammered that he wanted to tell me I looked good, I explained he was freaking me the fuck out and to please leave me alone.

 

Don't get me wrong I was scared but fuck it , I was also pretty angry.I said it and got out of there, looking over my shoulder the whole times :)

[KungFuBunny]

Heather's shortening of everyone's name may stem from working for Sean Combs all those years.

 

He was constantly changing his name and how he wanted to be addressed.

 

P. Diddy

Sean John

Puffy

Puff Daddy

Diddy

Diddy Combs

 

She got brainwashed against calling someone by their full name

 

 

[missy jo]

No one has complained, cast wise, about the Holla or the Mama habit until this season so I can't fault her on that until next season if she continues it. As for her swearing, they all drop the F bomb time to time

 

 

It amazes me and kinda turns me off that all the HWs drop the F-bomb constantly in their THs, when I know they're literate enough to have other vocabulary choices. Use your words, ladies! Having said that, Heather's language doesn't bother me when we have other cast members making jokes about "braiding each other's pussy hair."

 

The holla thing - I feel bad for her because Bravo chose it as her tagline, and continues to choose the taglines, but it's not something she goes around saying on the show.

[ryebread]

I never realized saying Fuck while laughing was more acceptable?

For some people, it's low rent any way you use it. My point was that the only time we've ever seen Heather use it is when she's angry.

As a person who said fuck in an  angry aggressive way just a few days ago, I don't apologize.I was being followed through stores (3 in the mall) by some asshole who thought following was flirting, I stopped looked at him and said "what the fuck do you want?" he stammered that he wanted to tell me I looked good, I explained he was freaking me the fuck out and to please leave me alone.

I'd liked to have seen his expression. He was probably thinking what my husband says after I let loose a few expletives: "Face like an angel, mouth like a truckdriver." LOL

[jaync]

 My point was that the only time we've ever seen Heather use it is when she's angry.

Nah, "we" haven't. I didn't think her "I couldn't even offer her a fucking meatball" was said in anger at all.

[WireWrap]

Nah, "we" haven't. I didn't think her "I couldn't even offer her a fucking meatball" was said in anger at all.

Yes, it as said in both anger and frustration IMO.

[motorcitymom65]

Nah, "we" haven't. I didn't think her "I couldn't even offer her a fucking meatball" was said in anger at all.

Anger is probably one of those things that is subjective, so it's hard to say. In her TH regarding the deal with Ramona trash talking her and Lu at Dorinda's birthday dinner, she said, "is she fucking kidding me"? Or something like that. She said it with a mocking laugh so I don't necessarily think she was angry, although she was probably pissed at Ramona at the time.

I know people that only curse when angry. I have only ever heard my 70 year old mom curse in any way in fits of extreme anger. When my mom starts using "fuck", you know she is about to go all Batman on your ass. She completely denies ever cursing at all so it's almost like she doesn't even know she is doing it. I don't think it is unusual, but I think Heather is more like I am - we can work it into most situations.

The funniest way I have heard this particular word used was the time this season when Lu used it. For the most part, I don't think it is one of her words, or don't remember her using it. When she was talking to Carole about Adam, she said "I didn't know you were fucking". I was surprised. I can and do use the word frequently, but for whatever reason have never used it as a term for the actual act of having sex. I didn't anticiapte that Lu would either.

[LotusFlower]

The funniest way I have heard this particular word used was the time this season when Lu used it. For the most part, I don't think it is one of her words, or don't remember her using it. When she was talking to Carole about Adam, she said "I didn't know you were fucking". I was surprised. I can and do use the word frequently, but for whatever reason have never used it as a term for the actual act of having sex. I didn't anticiapte that Lu would either.

I agree. It stood out - it seemed so un-Countess-like! Another time I remember it being used in a surprising way was by Lisa V. It was a few years ago, so when she was still friends with Brandi, and she said STFU to someone. She said it in kind of a soft and trepidatious way, almost like she was uncomfortable or surprised it came out of her mouth. Not that she's so prim and proper, but I think it's an example of how hanging around someone can influence your verbiage. (Holla P. Diddy!)

[imjagain]

For some people, it's low rent any way you use it. My point was that the only time we've ever seen Heather use it is when she's angry.

I'd liked to have seen his expression. He was probably thinking what my husband says after I let loose a few expletives: "Face like an angel, mouth like a truckdriver." LOL

Oh I might very well have the mouth of a truck driver, but as he was a scary creep who was following me I didn't really care what he thought.

I wanted to let him know to knock it off, while still in a busy mall. Instead of letting him follow me into a empty parking lot.

So let it be low rent or trashy, sometimes it's called for, and I'm not to worried about who agrees.

Edited June 15, 2015 by imjagain

[jaync]

Yes, it as said in both anger and frustration IMO.

Maybe a little frustration, but she said it in a TH, so how angry could she have really been at that moment?

 

Not sure about "fuck" in particular, but it feels like Dorinda has done a fair amount of cursing this season.

[WireWrap]

Maybe a little frustration, but she said it in a TH, so how angry could she have really been at that moment?

 

Not sure about "fuck" in particular, but it feels like Dorinda has done a fair amount of cursing this season.

She was talking about how she felt during that dinner and was expressing the anger frustration when it happened.  They have all use the F bomb at 1 time or another but NY does not use it as much as some of the other HW shows.

[jaync]

She was talking about how she felt during that dinner and was expressing the anger frustration when it happened.

Right, but she wasn't phrasing the word in actual anger at that time, as (I'm assuming) she wasn't mad at the person interviewing her. (Or, at the meatball.)

[WireWrap]

Right, but she wasn't phrasing the word in actual anger at that time, as (I'm assuming) she wasn't mad at the person interviewing her. (Or, at the meatball.)

Of course, we do not know exactly what she was asked, it could have been, "What were you thinking/feeling at the time". LOL, that is why the TH drive me nuts and why I find they pretty much unreliable/suspect. We never know what they are asked to elicit any answer. LOL

[film noire]

Right, but she wasn't phrasing the word in actual anger at that time, as (I'm assuming) she wasn't mad at the person interviewing her. (Or, at the meatball.)

 

It's not about being angry at the staff person/magical elf interviewing re: the memory, it's about the memory itself being recalled & "re-felt"through retelling, which can trigger feelings of anger (or joy/sadness/whatever) that were previously felt. It's a pretty common event for most people  -- even decades later, somebody can get into a major lather if they recall enough details from the initial event, sparking all sorts of emotion.

Edited June 15, 2015 by film noire

[ryebread]

If only she'd greet a fellow HW, give a double air kiss, smile the Grin of a Thousand Teeth and say, "You look fucking awesome, Mama!" Though still annoying, it would be light years better than always hearing her say it sounding like she's ready to cut ya. If you've got to say it, Heather, let's have a happy fuck every now and then. Like MCM said upthread, there are people who use it only when angry. Maybe she's one of those. If so, she sure got worked up over a meatball.

[jaync]

Heather was hardly in any kind of lather when she prefaced "meatball" with "fucking", IMO.

 

If it's as much about the delivery than the actual words used, then it seems to me Dorinda was as aggressive and angry as anybody else when she was dropping "shits" in her spats with John and Kristen.

 

Anger is probably one of those things that is subjective, so it's hard to say.

True, which is why stating absolutes on behalf of the audience as a whole never flies.

[imjagain]

Mmmm, now I want some fuckin awesome meatballs

Edited June 15, 2015 by imjagain

[quaintirene]

 

I could be guilty of putting too much emphasis on the feelings of the other HW's on the show, but I also think this is a huge indicator or someone's awfulness.

Personally I think it's a huge indicator of who Andy Cohen likes and dislikes.  They will fall in line with him because they do not want to fall out with him.  The only one who doesn't seem to give a shit is Bethenny and that is because he saw her as his ratings saviour.  Heather, this year, for whatever reason, is not getting a pretty edit.  That might be because she's not a million miles away from Bethenny in the way she reacts and interacts--although Bethenny is much less inclined to mix in.  So it's a Heather vs Bethenny season and I very much doubt Heather ever wins that editing contest.

[jaync]

"You look fucking awesome, Mama!" 

LOL, if Heather were to use "fucking" and "mama" in the same sentence? Oy.

 

[ottergirl]

Never having particularly liked Heather, this season is pretty hard to watch seeing her take the hard knocks.  It is as if all the things I did not care for her about her have been amplified and began annoying the rest of the cast.  I guess because I found Heather and Jonathan to be fundamentally decent citizens of the planet, her annoying speech habits, nicknaming and personality quirks, were just part of the package.  This year they just seem to be center stage.     From her initial introduction and having to be asked to dial it back by Mario and Ramona ( I honestly thought that was a little chickenshit, to me it seemed that Ramona and Mario were giving her some advice on how to deal with the cameras and she took it the wrong way and ran with it), to the insanely annoying Holla and three seasons in she is still using the tired old line, but the most annoying is her arrival anywhere and thinking she needs to be in charge.  The second category was her behavior and her seriously low brow house in The Berkshires, that somehow everyone was suppose to be so grateful for going to in the middle of a heat wave, with no air conditioning.  I get she liked her house and it just wasn't her place to test the other women's "realness" by trying to be a RH version of the simple life.

 

The things that make her very real to me are her stating the obvious.  LuAnn should not be having the treat Bethenny with kid gloves because 40 years ago she suffered some childhood trauma and it is now up to us to be here for her and take the insults.  I thought Heather was a bit rude at the dinner to Bethenny and her surprise visit and Bethenny has been very rude since her arrival at LuAnn's (I flew in)  in Sag Harbor and pretty much commandeering the herd.  I applauded Heather for twice trying to explain and explain very nicely to Bethenny that she had offended people.  Bethenny callous disregard for anyone but her own feelings have been highlighted by her conversations with Bethenny.  I think heather also truly likes to make people feel comfortable.

 

I will say this Heather has had three seasons to weigh and read what annoys people about her and she has exactly ZERO regrets and seems to amplified the nicknaming, Holla, mother*ker, downtown kick ass attitude.  It is almost as if she wants to make people like it instead of reflecting on how effing annoying these affectations are to others.

 

I promised at the start of the season to be "ride or die" for Heather (I was kidding, but also not), and I still am.  But that doesn't mean I think she's perfect - and your last paragraph, in particular, is one of the things that makes me sigh.  Of course she can say whatever she wants, but I feel like for multiple seasons, fans (if not Housewives) have been like "enough with the stupid holla business," and she just keeps saying it more.  I think Heather has an interesting stubborn, kind of contrarian nature - if you tell her she can't do something, she's going to do it twice as much, you f---er, just to show she can.  I would act horrified by such behavior if I didn't occasionally display signs of it myself.  

 

The reason I like Heather is essentially what you said in your first paragraph - she and Jonathan seem like fundamentally decent citizens of the planet.  She is an active volunteer and advocate for causes, including the Kellner Liver Foundation, and even that No Limits thing she's doing this year, where she's spending the month of July taking veterans with disabilities up mountains in Nepal.  It's where her tagline for the season came from, and she has posted tons of stuff on her social media about the work she's been doing - taking fundraising trips, doing a lot of physical training so she'd be ready for the trip, etc.  I would bet a lot of money that Heather filmed a LOT of stuff about that work this year, but since it doesn't fit the pre-ordained narrative for the season, they're not using it.  How can we hate Heather for offering Bethenny a meatball when we just watched a scene of her training to carry wounded vets up a mountain?  

 

And yes, in past seasons we have seen her be a very good friend to Carole and Kristen, a good Mom, a self-assured boss and CEO, etc.  

 

In addition to those good traits, she does have bad ones - and her compulsion to take charge in any situation, coupled with her apparent inability to step back and see that this tendency isn't always a good thing and can have a negative impact, is a definite bad trait. (So is what seems to be a real temper when provoked - I do NOT like the way she yelled at Aviva last season, no matter how much I was on her side, telling anyone that "no one here likes you" is just not kind.)  I have no problem with them showing her faults - it's part of the Housewife package.  But I wish they would balance it out a bit.  

 

However, I'm pretty resigned to the fact that they aren't going to do that.  This show, and especially this season,  is based on two premises.  Premise One:  Bethenny is the savior of the show, and no matter what, we have to fall back in love with the Skinnygirl.  Premise Two:  every story needs a villain, and since Heather is the only person who isn't immediately bowing to the Queen B, then she's going to be the villain.  It's how the game works.  I hate it, and right now I imagine Heather hates it too, but that's another reason never to do a reality show.  It's literally written into the contract that they can depict you however they want, including telling outright lies, and there's nothing you can do about it. (Seriously, did you ever see one of those contracts?  They're horrifying.  It's permission to commit libel and slander, with no way to counter.)

 

What's interestng to me, though, is the extent to which Premise One isn't working.  From early in the season, when a WWHL caller terrified Andy by comparing Bethenny to Jill Zarin, to the growing chorus of "what the hell is wrong with Bethenny," their attempt to resurrect the Skinnygirl isn't working.  We don't find her homeless quips funny, we're tired of the Skinnygirl shilling, we can see through her attempt to control and manipulate her filming schedule and costar interaction, her manic energy reads more as nastiness, on and on.   They've effectively trashed Heather, but they haven't lifted Bethenny up.  They've just wrecked both of them. 

 

I do have hopes for a Heather redemption, though, mostly because on balance, I still think Heather is genuinely one of the good ones. The vitriol directed at her is kind of interesting to me, mostly because in comparison to Tamra trying to get Gretchen "naked wasted" so her son could sexually assault her, or Brandi trying to destroy Kyle's marriage and family, or Kim's attempt to do the same to Lisa Rinna, Heather offering Bethenny a meatball, or using idiotic catch phrases long past their expiration date, or trying to fix situations that are best left alone, it all just seems completely harmless.  

 

ETA:  One thing that I did respect, that I wish Heather would get some credit for.  After the meltdown at the dinner table, when Bethenny explained that she felt like Heather was pushing too hard for friendship, Heather said, very calmly, "Okay, I will just wait for you to make the first move, then.  And when you decide you want to reach out, I'll be here."  She seemed to (finally) hear Bethenny's core need, and she responded fairly.  Cut to the AOA party, their first meeting since then, and Heather did just as promised:  she gave Bethenny a polite, casual hello, and moved on. I do hope that was Heather showing some self awareness and learning to adapt her approach for Bethenny.   (Of course, Bethenny then attacked her for being cold.  Sigh.  No way to win with the Queen B.)

Edited June 15, 2015 by ottergirl

[Mozelle]

I have questions: When is Heather saying "Holla" all the time? I truly think that the fact that it's been repeated in her opening since her first season has skewed the reality. Secondly, the nickname "issue" only became an "issue" when Bethenny made the "Why can't we use our names?" comment. Like, I do not recall there being this discussion about it until that particular episode. So, I'm not sure where Heather has had all this time to reflect about a nicknaming "faux pas" (that was only a faux pas to Bethenny...) or tell the editors to cut out the "Holla!" bit in the opening.
 
Bethenny having the issue with being called Beth (and, ya know, Heather hasn't called her Beth since that passive aggressive moment) has somehow been made into some global annoyance when I've yet to hear any of the ladies mention that they dislike or are annoyed by Heather shortening their names. I'll also add, because it's necessary given the brouhaha over Heather using nicknames: LuAnn uses nicknames, too! She has for seasons now, and not any of the women get up in arms about it, just like they don't get up in arms about Heather using nicknames. No treatises have been written about LuAnn's use of nicknames, however. 
 

LOL, if Heather were to use "fucking" and "mama" in the same sentence? Oy.

It'd be game over.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Mozelle

[motorcitymom65]

Ottergirl - love your entire post. 

 

I too thought that they probably had some footage of Heather and her work with No Barriers. It's something she is devoting a lot of time too, and I think she was named Ambassador back in November or earlier, so they were absolutely filming. Maybe they will show some stuff later when she started her training for the Nepal mission. It just goes to show you that the fact that we aren't seeing much interesting stuff regarding one particular gal doesn't mean that they don't actually have anything interesting going on. To your point, the general formula for these shows has become that in order to try and make someone look good, you need to make someone else look bad. This is what I hate about these shows, and certainly many of us predicted this would be the case when we heard Beth was joining. I just hate it, because surely there is a way to show Beth in a way that would revamp her image without having to tear someone else down? I certainly don't think that Bravo wanted to show Beth sobbing about being homeless at the same time they were showing Heather training for the work she is doing with No Barriers.  Better to show Beth traumatized at a dinner table because she is tired of being on display, and that mean Heather trying to force her to eat a meatball. 

 

FYI - both Heather and Kristen are on WWHL tomorrow night. 

[WireWrap]

I have questions: When is Heather saying "Holla" all the time? I truly think that the fact that it's been repeated in her opening since her first season has skewed the reality. Secondly, the nickname "issue" only became an "issue" when Bethenny made the "Why can't we use our names?" comment. Like, I do not recall there being this discussion about it until that particular episode. So, I'm not sure where Heather has had all this time to reflect about a nicknaming "faux pas" (that was only a faux pas to Bethenny...) or tell the editors to cut out the "Holla!" bit in the opening.

 

Bethenny having the issue with being called Beth (and, ya know, Heather hasn't called her Beth since that passive aggressive moment) has somehow been made into some global annoyance when I've yet to hear any of the ladies mention that they dislike or are annoyed by Heather shortening their names. I'll also add, because it's necessary given the brouhaha over Heather using nicknames: LuAnn uses nicknames, too! She has for seasons now, and not any of the women get up in arms about it, just like they don't get up in arms about Heather using nicknames. No treatises have been written about LuAnn's use of nicknames, however. 

 

It'd be game over.

APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE, STANDING OVATION!!!!

[Crikey]

I have questions: When is Heather saying "Holla" all the time? I truly think that the fact that it's been repeated in her opening since her first season has skewed the reality. Secondly, the nickname "issue" only became an "issue" when Bethenny made the "Why can't we use our names?" comment. Like, I do not recall there being this discussion about it until that particular episode. So, I'm not sure where Heather has had all this time to reflect about a nicknaming "faux pas" (that was only a faux pas to Bethenny...) or tell the editors to cut out the "Holla!" bit in the opening.

 

Bethenny having the issue with being called Beth (and, ya know, Heather hasn't called her Beth since that passive aggressive moment) has somehow been made into some global annoyance when I've yet to hear any of the ladies mention that they dislike or are annoyed by Heather shortening their names. I'll also add, because it's necessary given the brouhaha over Heather using nicknames: LuAnn uses nicknames, too! She has for seasons now, and not any of the women get up in arms about it, just like they don't get up in arms about Heather using nicknames. No treatises have been written about LuAnn's use of nicknames, however. 

 

It'd be game over.

Sending you a Holla Mama, Mozie!  ;)

 

Treatises have been written about Lu's use of nicknames - she laughed, folded them up and  made them into  statement necklaces ;)

[KungFuBunny]

Sending you a Holla Mama, Mozie!  ;)

 

Treatises have been written about Lu's use of nicknames - she laughed, folded them up and  made them into  statement necklaces ;)

Heather likes to say Hey Mama often

 

Has Heather ever greeted a male "friend" i.e. Josh....Hey Papa?

[Crikey]

Heather likes to say Hey Mama often

 

Has Heather ever greeted a male "friend" i.e. Josh....Hey Papa?

I don't know.

Maybe, like some other HW's, she uses moth-eaten terms, maybe DaddyO.  I am picturing sunglasses, tight black pants, black turtle neck jumper and a black beret.  Original finger snaps and all!  lol

Hey, DaddyO fix your audio and let's go get dixie fried!  

[missy jo]

The reason I like Heather is essentially what you said in your first paragraph - she and Jonathan seem like fundamentally decent citizens of the planet.  She is an active volunteer and advocate for causes, including the Kellner Liver Foundation, and even that No Limits thing she's doing this year, where she's spending the month of July taking veterans with disabilities up mountains in Nepal.  It's where her tagline for the season came from, and she has posted tons of stuff on her social media about the work she's been doing - taking fundraising trips, doing a lot of physical training so she'd be ready for the trip, etc.  I would bet a lot of money that Heather filmed a LOT of stuff about that work this year, but since it doesn't fit the pre-ordained narrative for the season, they're not using it.  How can we hate Heather for offering Bethenny a meatball when we just watched a scene of her training to carry wounded vets up a mountain?

 

 

Wow! I agree - Heather's one of the good ones and it sounds like she's doing some great work. The only thing I can fault her for is making me feel lazy as hell in comparison. Holla!

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Here's where you might change your mind because I'm about to call a bunch of 5 - 8 year olds, little fuckers. LOL During a recess, a few of my kindergartners and some 2nd graders took one arm out of their sleeves, tucking their arm down into their shirts, letting the other sleeve dangle armless.  And then ran around the playground taunting this child.  One little fucker hung from the monkey bars with one hand while the empty sleeve was a-blowin' in the wind.  The boy was timid by nature and clung close to me during recess but if you could feel what I felt that day - how rigid his little body was.  He didn't cry.  He whimpered.  Oh my god, I just called 5 year olds little fuckers but damn if my heart didn't break and isn't breaking right now recalling what they did.  If I have flashbacks and nightmares from recalling that, imagine the kid.  And then 11 more years of it. 

 

Hopefully by college, kids were more mature than that but I dunno, because the coven of HW witches were in their 40s and still making fun of an amputee. 

 

Kids these days are MEAN. I live in fear of sending my little ones into the world. I feel for the little boy, nobody, old, young, handicapped or not deserves that kind of treatment.  But I am not getting how his situation compares to Aviva's and how her coworkers related to her. Are you saying experienced playground bullying due to her handicap at the hands of Heather, Kristen and Carole in particular?  Because I am sorry, that is ridiculous comparison to draw.  

 

Aviva wasn't bullied by anyone and they definitely, definitely didn't mock her for her handicap.  They were incredulous at the Leg Throw as would anyone. Aviva was a nasty piece of shit all on her own. She wasn't an innocent babe in a playground. They treated her better than I would have if I had to deal with that woman for more than an hour. 

 

 

ETA:  One thing that I did respect, that I wish Heather would get some credit for.  After the meltdown at the dinner table, when Bethenny explained that she felt like Heather was pushing too hard for friendship, Heather said, very calmly, "Okay, I will just wait for you to make the first move, then.  And when you decide you want to reach out, I'll be here."  She seemed to (finally) hear Bethenny's core need, and she responded fairly.  Cut to the AOA party, their first meeting since then, and Heather did just as promised:  she gave Bethenny a polite, casual hello, and moved on. I do hope that was Heather showing some self awareness and learning to adapt her approach for Bethenny.   (Of course, Bethenny then attacked her for being cold.  Sigh.  No way to win with the Queen B.)

 

I love and agree with your whole post ottergirl. I quoted this part because I have noticed that too. Not just with Heather.  When a housewife is exhibiting normal to commendable behavior, you don't hear a peep about it or them. The minute they are perceive to have stepped out of line is when they become the topic of conversation.

 

Or are engaged in a conflict. Then and only then are they worthy of being discussed. 

 

Bravo as well as any company that has a product to sell pay boatloads of a whole department of marketing, economists and analysts whose job is to research the market and for the housewife franchise, they found that questionable characters who engage in the maximum conflict sells. The end product is the show they put out. Unfortunately, in this environment, the shady, and mostly unlikable will always reign supreme because those characters are their moneymakers.

 

I feel like I veered off course somewhere. My point was that Heather's gracious step back from the situation with Bethenny is not worth noting as compared to when she almost, kinda grabbed her hand. Clearly, that is more important and must be talked about to death. 

[ryebread]

Aviva wasn't bullied by anyone and they definitely, definitely didn't mock her for her handicap. They were incredulous at the Leg Throw as would anyone.

 

Yes they did.  And it came way before the leg throw.

[AnnaMayWong]

Kids these days are MEAN. I live in fear of sending my little ones into the world. I feel for the little boy, nobody, old, young, handicapped or not deserves that kind of treatment. But I am not getting how his situation compares to Aviva's and how her coworkers related to her. Are you saying experienced playground bullying due to her handicap at the hands of Heather, Kristen and Carole in particular? Because I am sorry, that is ridiculous comparison to draw.

Aviva wasn't bullied by anyone and they definitely, definitely didn't mock her for her handicap. They were incredulous at the Leg Throw as would anyone. Aviva was a nasty piece of shit all on her own. She wasn't an innocent babe in a playground. They treated her better than I would have if I had to deal with that woman for more than an hour.

I love and agree with your whole post ottergirl. I quoted this part because I have noticed that too. Not just with Heather. When a housewife is exhibiting normal to commendable behavior, you don't hear a peep about it or them. The minute they are perceive to have stepped out of line is when they become the topic of conversation.

Or are engaged in a conflict. Then and only then are they worthy of being discussed.

Bravo as well as any company that has a product to sell pay boatloads of a whole department of marketing, economists and analysts whose job is to research the market and for the housewife franchise, they found that questionable characters who engage in the maximum conflict sells. The end product is the show they put out. Unfortunately, in this environment, the shady, and mostly unlikable will always reign supreme because those characters are their moneymakers.

I feel like I veered off course somewhere. My point was that Heather's gracious step back from the situation with Bethenny is not worth noting as compared to when she almost, kinda grabbed her hand. Clearly, that is more important and must be talked about to death.

I agree with ALL of this.

[howivesforever]

Yes they did. And it came way before the leg throw.

Aviva is just an asshole that happens to have a handicap. I didn't witness her being bullied. She also was on Marriage Boot Camp and still couldn't manage to get along with anyone. No they weren't a group of high class people, but the fact that she still couldn't get along with anyone on either show leads me to believe she's definitely the problem.

[ryebread]

Aviva is just an asshole that happens to have a handicap. I didn't witness her being bullied. She also was on Marriage Boot Camp and still couldn't manage to get along with anyone. No they weren't a group of high class people, but the fact that she still couldn't get along with anyone on either show leads me to believe she's definitely the problem.

Only one person can be an ass all season? Aviva was an ass. Heather, Carole and Kristen are just asses of a different sort.

I'd love to see Heather and Jonathon on Marriage Bootcamp. Heather wouldn't be a fan favorite there, either. The therapist would have a field day with that one.

[Mozelle]

I doubt that Heather would ever do a show like that, though. She's not a famewhore of the Aviva (or Taylor Armstrong) variety who's so hungry for camera time that she'd undermine her marriage that way.

[howivesforever]

Only one person can be an ass all season? Aviva was an ass. Heather, Carole and Kristen are just asses of a different sort.

I'd love to see Heather and Jonathon on Marriage Bootcamp. Heather wouldn't be a fan favorite there, either. The therapist would have a field day with that one.

I think Heather and her husband have a solid relationship. I'm not sure about the earlier seasons of MBC, but now that it features reality stars the therapist are a joke. The show is purely for entertainment purposes. No one is getting any real relationship help.

[lunastartron]

Aviva's leg toss was literally the last time she saw Heather and Carole and the final substantive exchange she had with Kristen. How is that relevant to the behavior of KCH in the months prior? I probably just notice it more because I'm not a fan of the triumvirate but it seems like there's a trend to rationalize their behavior by referring to stimuli that actually cropped up after the behavior in question (for example, the proposition that Carole was somehow correct in her ignorant attempt to play white savior just because LuAnn's response was in and of itself offensive; that LuAnn invoked caricaturish stereotypes after Carole tried to call her terminology "racist" doesn't make Carole less colonialistic, it just makes LuAnn offensive *and* Carole colonialistic). I don't think "bullying" is a completely inaccurate word to apply to the glee with which Kristen and Heather chased conflict with Aviva, but I understand why it might register as so - it's become culturally associated with horrible tragedies and moral allegories. But the bullied don't have to be unimpeachable saints by definition just like the abused aren't automatically admirable or even good people. I'm not sure if there's a specific single word that succinctly names the dynamic between the cast last season because Aviva seemed invested in it as tool for her own narrative but, whatever terminology one wants to invoke, I thought the relationship between Heather, Carole, and Kristen was typified by groupthink and strange overtones of puerile cliqueishness. And it was Heather who established that standard. From chasing after Aviva over a matter that didn't even involve her (and then whining at Reid "don't shout at me" after she had just screamed and cursed at his wife ad nauseum) to attempting to corral all the women against Aviva at the housewarming (and then shutting down the conversation when Sonja referred to Carole "always talking on the phone with her co-writer") to ordering Carole or Kristen "you're done" at the final tete-a-tete with Aviva to Kristen and LuAnn clutching their chests and hyperventilating, the conduct of that cohort was textbook middle-school mean-girl. It just was just slightly less obvious because Aviva's personality tics were so pronounced and she could chew as much scenery as Heather once she got turned up.

[ryebread]

But the bullied don't have to be unimpeachable saints by definition just like the abused aren't automatically admirable or even good people.

 

This.  I can't work up much energy, anymore, to discuss why I think HCK were POS last season. I can't unsee what I saw.  And the idea that Aviva, even though an ass herself, deserved to be bullied is something I'll never agree with.  Bullies and mean people suck.

 

I thought the relationship between Heather, Carole, and Kristen was typified by groupthink and strange overtones of puerile cliqueishness. And it was Heather who established that standard.

 

Yes.

[slitz]

Yes they did.  And it came way before the leg throw.

 

Someone may have asked this already, but can you give an example of when any of the ladies mocked Aviva for her handicap?  And I'm talking about her physical handicap, not her fear of planes/flying or her sudden asthma.  Those I think we did see some mocking of.  But her actual physical handicap, which seems to be what you're referring to, I don't recall any of the ladies mocking her for that.

[WireWrap]

Someone may have asked this already, but can you give an example of when any of the ladies mocked Aviva for her handicap?  And I'm talking about her physical handicap, not her fear of planes/flying or her sudden asthma.  Those I think we did see some mocking of.  But her actual physical handicap, which seems to be what you're referring to, I don't recall any of the ladies mocking her for that.

The "mocking" of Aviva's flying phobia and her "asthma" were not nice but it happened because they knew that Aviva was lying about it all as she was flying all over the country without Reid, or anyone else to hold her hand, off/behind the cameras. The asthma only occurred when the Montana trip was about to happen and funny thing, soon after the trip was over, she "found out it was not asthma" and don't forget that it was revealed that Reid tried to use the Montana trip as a bargaining chip to secure a contract for this season which I am sure production clued the others in on during the trip. I never heard any of the women mock Aviva for her accident or about her leg either.

Edited June 18, 2015 by WireWrap

[slitz]

The "mocking" of Aviva's flying phobia and her "asthma" were not nice but it happened because they knew that Aviva was lying about it all as she was flying all over the country without Reid, or anyone else to hold her hand, off/behind the cameras. The asthma only occurred when the Montana trip was about to happen and funny thing, soon after the trip was over, she "found out it was not asthma" and don't forget that it was revealed that Reid tried to use the Montana trip as a bargaining chip to secure a contract for this season which I am sure production clued the others in on during the trip. I never heard any of the women mock Aviva for her accident or about her leg either.

 

Oh I know the ladies mocked her for the flying/fear of planes phobia and asthma.  That's why I stated that I wanted an example of them mocking her for her ACTUAL handicap, the loss of her leg.  

[shoegal]

Someone may have asked this already, but can you give an example of when any of the ladies mocked Aviva for her handicap?  And I'm talking about her physical handicap, not her fear of planes/flying or her sudden asthma.  Those I think we did see some mocking of.  But her actual physical handicap, which seems to be what you're referring to, I don't recall any of the ladies mocking her for that.

IIRC, it was something that happened when Heather and Kristin were training for the mud run, I don't remember what happened but I remember that there was an issue that upset some people. Hopefully someone can provide info.

[WireWrap]

Oh I know the ladies mocked her for the flying/fear of planes phobia and asthma.  That's why I stated that I wanted an example of them mocking her for her ACTUAL handicap, the loss of her leg.  

I was agreeing with you! I did try to explain why they mocked Aviva about the flying and her asthma though BUT I also never saw/heard anyone mock her about either the accident or her leg.