Carole Radziwill: She's a Real Princess!

[zoeysmom]

On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 5:58 PM, Mondrianyone said:

Oh, sure, I know that.  I've seen the photos.  But being on location to provide support services for actual journalists doesn't necessarily make you one.  Like showing up at Cape Canaveral to watch a space launch wouldn't necessarily make me an astronaut.

I just think that Carole has been dining out on an inflated résumé and the accomplishments of other people for a long time. IMO, of course.

Does anyone know if Carole actually wrote copy?  I get she may have done some research but did she condense into on air copy?  I always get the impression, and Carole doesn't stand alone, that she may enjoy the gathering of facts and researching areas, but her ability to quickly disseminate the same may not be her strong suit.

Edited July 24, 2017 by zoeysmom

[breezy424]

Well, all I can say for Carole and her career at ABC, is kuddos for her.  Just getting a job in network news is really tough and it's extremely competitive.  I don't know exactly what she did but she apparently had sucess.

Fast forward.  I think Carole has made enough to get by but she doesn't have the incentive to go after something career wise.  She's content.  She's boring.  And that's ok but she really doesn't admit to it.  Own it Carole.

[eXiled]

5 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Well, all I can say for Carole and her career at ABC, is kuddos for her.  Just getting a job in network news is really tough and it's extremely competitive.  I don't know exactly what she did but she apparently had sucess.

Fast forward.  I think Carole has made enough to get by but she doesn't have the incentive to go after something career wise.  She's content.  She's boring.  And that's ok but she really doesn't admit to it.  Own it Carole.

I was just wondering how such a boring woman, whose most fascinating aspect might be her fashion choices (both good and bad) and her seeming proclivity to get baked, garners so much hatred. I barely notice her most of the time.

[ryebread]

3 hours ago, eXiled said:

I was just wondering how such a boring woman, whose most fascinating aspect might be her fashion choices (both good and bad) and her seeming proclivity to get baked, garners so much hatred. I barely notice her most of the time.

Oh! Oh! Pick me!

In addition to being boring and mostly making terrible fashion choices:

She's ridiculous and she lies.  For a woman who has suffered greatly, she appears to have little empathy.  For someone who supposedly had an illustrious career, she's now such a slacker.  I just can't with the lazy, mean girl - but she gives some of us a lot to snark about. 

I appreciate that she finally realized, at 50 somethin', that eating better and exercising are important.  It's never too late.  But I don't, for a minute, think that either of those newfound healthy habits were borne from her stellar! research! skills!  Because, not long ago, she was an absolute idiot when it came to diet and exercise.  Or she was lying and being stupid on purpose.  Which is plausible. (Did I mention I think she's a liar?) 

But a better explanation is that she's adopted (again) the thought process of her newest bestie.  Pictures of Downward Dog Carole on Instagram in 3...2...1...

I do, however, have some sympathy for her.  She suffered a tremendous loss and it's possible that's what's made her the emotionally stunted, rudderless woman/child she is today.  It looks like Tinsley is lined up to be her next role model and I don't think that's a particularly good thing to heal the emotionally stunted part.  At least if she sticks with Bethenny she might grow a backbone and learn to work hard again.  Not to mention what yoga will do to help her maintain that great ass.

[SweetieDarling]

On 7/19/2017 at 6:57 PM, Mozelle said:

filmnoire, you've literally split one of my sentences that's arguing exactly what you're arguing to say that you don't agree but really we're saying the same thing lol:

I am saying that someone being attuned to social issue X, Y, Z doesn't mean that they're exactly attuned to social issue 1, 2, 3. Carole demonstrated that. 

Carole was taking what she'd learned about the more politically correct term ("Native American"; "We're supposed to say 'Native American' now"...across the board, no nuance) and applying it to LuAnn, a member of that group, not understanding that LuAnn--as a member of that group--has more leeway with how she chooses to identity or call herself. 

The excerpt from Carole's blog demonstrates that Carole was applying a broad stroke because she knows that she can't use a term and thinks that it applies to everyone, including the member of the group in question. That's where I'm going when I say Carole isn't (and isn't going to be) 100% pristine even though she's attuned to a number of social justice issues.

I witnessed it firsthand at the women's march in D.C. this year, which is why the sign I carried said "Black & a woman." ;)

It's a good thing you didn't run into Carole at the march...she may have had to inform you that you are "African American", and that "Black" is an offensive term.  lol.

[jaync]

Quote

Not to mention what yoga will do to help her maintain that great ass.

Except she'll have to do more than master just one or two poses, given the example that is Beth's hot mess of a butt.

[Mondrianyone]

18 hours ago, Mozelle said:

Good lord. Carole was a producer for a hard hitting news show, which means she gets rolled under the umbrella of journalism.

The Lord probably doesn't have much to do with it, but this is good news for my friend who does bookkeeping at the local dermatologist's office.  Now that she's "rolled under the umbrella" of medicine, she can go around telling people she's a doctor! 

Seriously, I don't think that's how professional journalistic credentials work.

[Mozelle]

3 hours ago, Mondrianyone said:

The Lord probably doesn't have much to do with it, but this is good news for my friend who does bookkeeping at the local dermatologist's office.  Now that she's "rolled under the umbrella" of medicine, she can go around telling people she's a doctor! 

Seriously, I don't think that's how professional journalistic credentials work.

Journalism and medicine are not the same so the analogy doesn't quite work. You don't need a journalism bachelor's or master's to work in journalism. You do need an MD to say that you're a doctor.

5 hours ago, SweetieDarling said:

It's a good thing you didn't run into Carole at the march...she may have had to inform you that you are "African American", and that "Black" is an offensive term.  lol.

You just proved exactly my point. ;) Carole is not 100% perfect in her social justice issues. 

Edited July 24, 2017 by Mozelle

[Mondrianyone]

41 minutes ago, Mozelle said:

You do need an MD to say that you're a doctor.

You don't need any kind of degree to say you're a doctor.  You do need an MD to actually be a doctor.  Which is precisely my point about Carole, which I'll drop now.

[Mozelle]

It still does not work. You need an MD to be a doctor, certainly. You do not need a bachelor's or master's in journalism to be a journalist or to work in journalism. 

Carole's career as a producer in hard news/journalism does mean she is called a journalist.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Mozelle

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, Mozelle said:

It still does not work. You need an MD to be a doctor, certainly. You do not need a bachelor's or master's in journalism to be a journalist or to work in journalism. 

Carole's career as a producer in hard news/journalism does mean she is called a journalist.

How long is it before she goes from journalist to reality TV star?  In all seriousness, why was Carrie Bradshaw called a writer, columnist rather than a journalist?  And is an op-ed writer a journalist?   I think Carole has far more recognition as reality TV star.  And she has had a best seller, then again Bethenny and Teresa Giudice have had more NYTimes best sellers, so I guess she is not that unique in the RH realm.  Sometimes life is just unfair. 

It's like Ina Garten, is she still considered a White House nuclear energy analyst or celebrity chef?

[Mozelle]

32 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

How long is it before she goes from journalist to reality TV star?  In all seriousness, why was Carrie Bradshaw called a writer, columnist rather than a journalist?  And is an op-ed writer a journalist?   I think Carole has far more recognition as reality TV star.  And she has had a best seller, then again Bethenny and Teresa Giudice have had more NYTimes best sellers, so I guess she is not that unique in the RH realm.  Sometimes life is just unfair. 

It's like Ina Garten, is she still considered a White House nuclear energy analyst or celebrity chef?

Is Carole a reality TV star now? Yes. Was Carole a hard news television producer (which puts her under that journalism tent)? Yes.

I'm more reacting to the need to diminish what news producers do seemingly because people say that Carole was a journalist and news producer. Keeping with Ina Garten as an example, it would be similar to someone saying, "Well, before the celebrity chef thing, was she even really an analyst? She probably did some research and turned that over to others, but that doesn't make her an analyst."

[motorcitymom65]

3 hours ago, Mozelle said:

Is Carole a reality TV star now? Yes. Was Carole a hard news television producer (which puts her under that journalism tent)? Yes.

I'm more reacting to the need to diminish what news producers do seemingly because people say that Carole was a journalist and news producer. Keeping with Ina Garten as an example, it would be similar to someone saying, "Well, before the celebrity chef thing, was she even really an analyst? She probably did some research and turned that over to others, but that doesn't make her an analyst."

There is always a need to diminish whatever Carole did. She couldn't possibly be a Journalist because she is on a reality TV show. She is on a reality TV show, so surely she is lying about how well she knew/was close to John and Caroline. Where are the pictures proving that they were best buds? She seems to be lazy, so she couldn't have possibly written a best selling book. How dare she call herself an Author? She probably didn't date/fuck/make eye contact with George Clooney, and if she did it is because he is some sort of loser. He must be, because that is the only way he would have been interested in her. I am surprised that Ralph Fiennes hasn't been bashed relentlessly because he use to date her. Her relationship with Adam, which seems like the most normal and healthy of any relationship we have seen on this show for years, must be diminished because it is simply not possible that he is a nice guy who is interested in her. 

[lunastartron]

I recall Carole making an almost universally positive impression during her initial season and the appreciation she garnered eroding, by and large, by increasing margins in every subsequent year.

And I think that has a lot to do with Carole's penchant for demeaning others and/or holding them to standards that she doesn't apply to herself. And those aren't necessarily broad-stroke instances in which Carole evokes disdain for failure to consistently adhere to, say, every ideal of social justice liberalism (although I do think she has been dinged in that regard on occasion) - much of the examples in question are of direct hypocrisy/idiocy, such as when she sneered at LuAnn for not knowing much about American Indians ... while herself making an aggressively stupid, ill-informed, and uneducated argument when attempting to illustrate how much she herself did supposedly know about American Indians.

Likewise, Carole's career and professional credentials have elicited scrutiny in large part (from my perspective) because she is the one who initially suggested that there was indeed correct and/or legitimate background and experience by which one could produce a book and refer to oneself as a writer. Per that formulation, publishing an essay in a Chicken Soup anthology and having a literature degree and JD were literally eye-roll-worthy but Carole's years producing networks news tv pieces* were unimpeachably germane to her ability work in the disparate media of long form memoir and novels. Likewise, penning an autobiographical draft can't be like authoring a long-email but, rather, requires "years" of working on "craft" - and to say otherwise is disrespectful, outrageous, and incorrect, all of the commercially successful books that have been churned out in spans of several months or even weeks notwithstanding. 

*I think the queries about what responsibilities Carole actually performed at ABC are reasonable. I used to work at a magazine. There was an entire fashion department at that magazine in which over 30 people were employed. About 5 were charged with actually conceptualizing the editorials and spreads. The rest - while often bearing the title of "associate fashion editor" and the like - actually took care of logistics like scheduling, procuring visas, working on budgets, coordinating clothing loans from design houses i.e. the stuff that upthread was characterized accurately as glorified secretarial and/or assistant work. In many instances, that is what production entails. Which is why as many "fashion editors" from that magazine ended up going to business school, opening up their own businesses, and the ilk as actually becoming fashion editors. 

[diadochokinesis]

10 hours ago, Mondrianyone said:

You don't need any kind of degree to say you're a doctor.  You do need an MD to actually be a doctor.  Which is precisely my point about Carole, which I'll drop now.

1

Actually, no.  I'm a Dr but I'm not an MD. There are tons of various doctorate degrees out there that aren't just MD. 

10 hours ago, Mozelle said:

Carole's career as a producer in hard news/journalism does mean she is called a journalist.

 

I would also venture to say the fact that she has a Peabody and 3 Emmys would give credence to her being a journalist. She worked her way up from being an intern up to producer. She also has an MBA from NYU which is ranked #12 in the USA. You don't get into that program or graduate from that program if you are lazy. 

[film noire]

2 hours ago, diadochokinesis said:

Actually, no.  I'm a Dr but I'm not an MD. There are tons of various doctorate degrees out there that aren't just MD. 

Right-- but the comparison Mozelle and Mondrianyone batted back and forth (starting on pg 45) was specifically between medical doctors/ journalists. (Still love your user name,  @Mondrianyone ; )

Quote

*I think the queries about what responsibilities Carole actually performed at ABC are reasonable.

I do too -- I always assumed she had actual reporting experience (working sources, doing interviews, writing copy, etc) not just segment/field producer experience. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by film noire

[diadochokinesis]

4 minutes ago, film noire said:

Right-- but this comparison (which started back on pg 45) was specifically between medical doctors/ journalists.

I do too -- I always assumed she had actual reporting experience (working sources, doing interviews, writing copy, etc) not just segment/field producer experience. 

Yeah, I saw the original comparison. I think it was a bad comparison.  There are actual laws over who can refer to themselves as a medical doctor. Lately however, just about anybody can call themselves a journalist. Thank you, Internet. A student working on their school newspaper will refer to themselves as a journalist when working on articles. It isn't illegal. However, a student saying that s/he is a doctor and attempting to engage in medical practice is against the law. A more apt comparison would be to compare referring to yourself as a journalist vs referring to yourself as a teacher.  Just because you homeschool your kids doesn't make you a legit teacher with an education degree utilizing evidence-based pedagogical practices. 

Edited July 25, 2017 by diadochokinesis

[motorcitymom65]

10 hours ago, lunastartron said:

I recall Carole making an almost universally positive impression during her initial season and the appreciation she garnered eroding, by and large, by increasing margins in every subsequent year.

 

I think is true in large part - that the appreciation many felt has eroded over the years - but I don't agree with the premise of why that happened. Of course there were always many who didn't care for her, but I believe it was her friendship with Beth that ultimately started the quest to question her professional credentials, friendships, work ethic, etc. 

I could be completely wrong here, but I believe that if Carole had never become friends with Beth, she would be looked at in an entirely different way. And more to the point, if tomorrow she decided that Beth was a horrible person and started attacking her on the show - the way we have become use to watching friends go after their past friendships on these shows - that she would find herself in a very different position. Even if she wasn't writing a book, was still dating Adam, still talking with her mouth full, or not cleaning her plate after a meal. 

[WireWrap]

11 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I think is true in large part - that the appreciation many felt has eroded over the years - but I don't agree with the premise of why that happened. Of course there were always many who didn't care for her, but I believe it was her friendship with Beth that ultimately started the quest to question her professional credentials, friendships, work ethic, etc. 

I could be completely wrong here, but I believe that if Carole had never become friends with Beth, she would be looked at in an entirely different way. And more to the point, if tomorrow she decided that Beth was a horrible person and started attacking her on the show - the way we have become use to watching friends go after their past friendships on these shows - that she would find herself in a very different position. Even if she wasn't writing a book, was still dating Adam, still talking with her mouth full, or not cleaning her plate after a meal. 

People started questioning Carole's professional credentials during "ghostwritergate", long before Bethenny came back to the show or even met Carole. 

[motorcitymom65]

13 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

People started questioning Carole's professional credentials during "ghostwritergate", long before Bethenny came back to the show or even met Carole. 

Oh sure. It was questioned, but for the most part people were furious at Aviva for going after her in such a way. I don't think anyone can disagree with the narrative that Aviva was the most hated HW in many ways during that time. I believe that Carole won that battle in the court of public opinion, while acknowledging that not everyone is ever going to agree. But the questions about the GW stuff gained momentum after she became friends with Beth. You would read a lot of "now I am starting to wonder if Aviva was on to something". People questioning her journalistic credentials in a way that they didn't get questioned during GW gate. I think that if GW gate was resurrected, maybe by someone more well liked, say by Lu or Dorinda, that the situation for Carole would be completely different than it was back in the Aviva days. Carole is still the exact same person, with the exact same professional credentials, but I don't think that she would have folks on her side in the same way that she did way back when.  

[ryebread]

Unless Bethenny was hiding in the backseat when Carole put those feet of hers up on the dashboard..... :-)

Or crouching under the stairs when Carole called all us stay-at-home mamas, 'nothings'.

[ryebread]

18 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Oh sure. It was questioned, but for the most part people were furious at Aviva for going after her in such a way.

This is true.  And for the life of me, I couldn't figure out why.  Heh.

It's okay that a lot of youse finally came to the party late, but I arrived unfashionably early and defended Aviva in her calling Carole out from the git.  I sat at that table by myself for a long time.  It was lonely drinking alone.  LOL  But to me, Carole's character was so shady from other prior things, that having a help on her book wasn't too far of a stretch. 

Aviva was unlikeable for a lot of reasons.  But I don't think she was wrong about Carole.  Also, there was a poster here, at one time, that was in NYC publishing who had also heard the 'word on the street' about Carole.  I believed her to be credible.

Edited July 25, 2017 by ryebread

[Ki-in]

4 minutes ago, ryebread said:

This is true.  And for the life of me, I couldn't figure out why.  Heh.

It's okay that a lot of youse finally came to the party late, but I arrived unfashionably early and defended Aviva in her calling Carole out from the git.  I sat at that table by myself for a long time.  It was lonely drinking alone.  LOL  But to me, Carole's character was so shady from other prior things, that having a help on her book wasn't too far of a stretch. 

Aviva was unlikeable for a lot of reasons.  But I don't think she was wrong about Carole.  Also, there was a poster here, at one time, that was in NYC publishing who had also heard the 'word on the street' about Carole.  I believed her to be credible.

We were alone at our tables at different restaurants!  Glad I found this one and we can have a drink together!  :-)

[WireWrap]

2 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Oh sure. It was questioned, but for the most part people were furious at Aviva for going after her in such a way. I don't think anyone can disagree with the narrative that Aviva was the most hated HW in many ways during that time. I believe that Carole won that battle in the court of public opinion, while acknowledging that not everyone is ever going to agree. But the questions about the GW stuff gained momentum after she became friends with Beth. You would read a lot of "now I am starting to wonder if Aviva was on to something". People questioning her journalistic credentials in a way that they didn't get questioned during GW gate. I think that if GW gate was resurrected, maybe by someone more well liked, say by Lu or Dorinda, that the situation for Carole would be completely different than it was back in the Aviva days. Carole is still the exact same person, with the exact same professional credentials, but I don't think that she would have folks on her side in the same way that she did way back when.  

No, there was a small fractioned that questioned her credentials when she joined the show but during "ghostwritergate' that number grew rather large. Like you, I was one of the few that defended her, there were less, a lot less, of us defending her at that point than before her comments to Aviva. I still think positivity of Carole in terms of her writing ability and I still give her respect for that but I have come to dislike the person she is when she is with Bethenny. And, I don't think she is the "same person" now that she was before Bethenny joined the show, either Bethenny brings out/encourages the nasty, judgmental side of Carole or she kept it under control/more hidden her first few seasons (which can happen as a HW gets use to the cameras). I miss the Carole who could/would let things slide off her back without getting petty/nasty/holding a grudge.

[Ki-in]

22 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

 I miss the Carole who could/would let things slide off her back without getting petty/nasty/holding a grudge.

I must have blinked and missed this Carole, she has always seemed like a petty, judgmental grudge holder from her first season and nothing has changed.

 

I wonder if Luann had been the one who brought ridiculous fake mustaches to Mexico if Carole would have taken offense to that...My guess is yes.

[RedheadZombie]

17 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

There is always a need to diminish whatever Carole did. She couldn't possibly be a Journalist because she is on a reality TV show. She is on a reality TV show, so surely she is lying about how well she knew/was close to John and Caroline. Where are the pictures proving that they were best buds? She seems to be lazy, so she couldn't have possibly written a best selling book. How dare she call herself an Author? She probably didn't date/fuck/make eye contact with George Clooney, and if she did it is because he is some sort of loser. He must be, because that is the only way he would have been interested in her. I am surprised that Ralph Fiennes hasn't been bashed relentlessly because he use to date her. Her relationship with Adam, which seems like the most normal and healthy of any relationship we have seen on this show for years, must be diminished because it is simply not possible that he is a nice guy who is interested in her. 

You forgot that Carole couldn't have dated Clooney because he's gay - somebody's gay friend told them so.  But forget about that comment that attempted to out Clooney (and used gay as a pejorative term), Carole is evil for using gay as if it was pejorative!!!

It's devolved to the point of satire.  What's next?  Carole was actually just a doorman for the ABC building.  Carole actually provided janitorial service for the REAL journalists.  Carole stole all those awards she received!  Unfair!  Sad!

[RedheadZombie]

12 hours ago, diadochokinesis said:

Actually, no.  I'm a Dr but I'm not an MD. There are tons of various doctorate degrees out there that aren't just MD. 

I would also venture to say the fact that she has a Peabody and 3 Emmys would give credence to her being a journalist. She worked her way up from being an intern up to producer. She also has an MBA from NYU which is ranked #12 in the USA. You don't get into that program or graduate from that program if you are lazy. 

Get out of here with your ridiculous FACTS.  I mean who needs facts when we can post a million links from unquestionable sources like hack blogger Tamara Tattles or Pulitzer winner TMZ?

[motorcitymom65]

34 minutes ago, Ki-in said:

I must have blinked and missed this Carole, she has always seemed like a petty, judgmental grudge holder from her first season and nothing has changed.

I agree. Not with the grudge holder part, because I've never seen this in her at all, but agree that she has not changed. I always understood why some didn't like her when she came on. The only time I ever cringed at her was in her first season with Lu. Oh, I agreed 100% with everything she said, but she hadn't taken the opportunity to get to know the Lu that was in front of her vs. the Lu that she had come to know in watching the show. I thought that Lu was nice and welcoming to Carole, and she was really snarky to her. I got it and agreed, but I could see how it could have appeared petty to many and I wished that she would give her a chance. I liked that she later apologized, and gave Lu another look. That she came to like the Lu that she got to know and was able to put her preconceived notions behind her (although all her notions ended up being accurate). But she was the same person as she is now. Exactly the same person, IMO. She can be judgmental, but she doesn't let that get in the way of forging a relationship with someone. 

But I am someone who doesn't believe that a person changes their character or personality in their 50's. I just don't. You are pretty much fully formed at that point, and you are not going to be one person one day and someone different next year. Not at your core. Not your values and your personality. Not unless there is a cataclysmic shift in your life. You get sober, you find religion (like for real). You get ill, or someone you love gets ill. You might change your perspective on life and what is important to you because of those things. But you don't change the core of who you are. At least in my experience. 

[WireWrap]

4 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

 

But I am someone who doesn't believe that a person changes their character or personality in their 50's. I just don't. You are pretty much fully formed at that point, and you are not going to be one person one day and someone different next year. Not at your core. Not your values and your personality. Not unless there is a cataclysmic shift in your life. You get sober, you find religion (like for real). You get ill, or someone you love gets ill. You might change your perspective on life and what is important to you because of those things. But you don't change the core of who you are. At least in my experience. 

When you reach your 50's, life does start to change big time for most people. Your kids are grown or close to it, your parents are elderly and you start to loose the elder members of your family (death) which is life changing for most of us. Most people evolve during their life time, learning and changing/adapting as they get older and hopefully wiser, even at their "core". 

[Ki-in]

12 hours ago, diadochokinesis said:

she has a Peabody and 3 Emmys 

I have looked but cannot find the stories she worked on to win these. I am also curious to see how many others were on the production team.

[film noire]

8 hours ago, diadochokinesis said:

There are actual laws over who can refer to themselves as a medical doctor. 

Similarly with journalists  (frex, the ninth circuit ruled a few years ago that bloggers can be considered journalists, and gain protection under shield laws). People can claim the constitutional protection of being a journalist  -- "I Am Citizen Journalist Charles Foster Kane!" -- but if you publish fact and pretend it's only opinion when you get slapped with a suit, you will be held to the standard journalists face for defamation. So (to loop back to the original point) you can claim to be a journalist (or a doctor) but you need the skills/medical degree to actually BE a journalist (or doctor). 

Quote

Carole's career as a producer in hard news/journalism does mean she is called a journalist.

I'd like to know if reporters/journalists think a segment producer is akin to what they do.  (Legally, I'm sure it is -- I'm assuming the network would make sure protection extended to most of the team, in case of being sued -- but content-wise, any journalists here who can weigh in? Is it like the entertainment side of the business -- producers getting a Tony for basically picking the right property to produce and then signing checks, as the talent does all the work?) 

[RHJunkie]

5 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I think is true in large part - that the appreciation many felt has eroded over the years - but I don't agree with the premise of why that happened. Of course there were always many who didn't care for her, but I believe it was her friendship with Beth that ultimately started the quest to question her professional credentials, friendships, work ethic, etc. 

I could be completely wrong here, but I believe that if Carole had never become friends with Beth, she would be looked at in an entirely different way. And more to the point, if tomorrow she decided that Beth was a horrible person and started attacking her on the show - the way we have become use to watching friends go after their past friendships on these shows - that she would find herself in a very different position. Even if she wasn't writing a book, was still dating Adam, still talking with her mouth full, or not cleaning her plate after a meal. 

I can't speak about her professional credentials as that isn't something I've ever questioned at any point of knowing her on this franchise. I don't think it's as simple as being associated to Bethenny, but more so the qualities of Carole that show itself when she's in Bethenny's company. There's a more prominent element of cattiness and gossip that Carole seems to enjoy in Bethenny's company but people had years to see how Carole behaved in her friendship with Heather and it didn't come across in the same way. So yes, in a way, it is related to Bethenny but I think it's more indirect. She comes across as Bethenny's lap dog where she's always looking to Bethenny to set the tone for being catty or talk shit so that she could follow suit. I don't think Bethenny brings that out in her, I think that part of the reason she enjoys Bethenny's company is because she gets to feed that side of her personality.

I think viewers, for the most part, can see behaviour for what it is and while they do choose sides and tend to give some women more leeway than others, I do think that's because viewers see everything as being relative. If Carole turned on Bethenny, I don't necessarily think that she will automatically win the love of the viewers. I can't see how joining Ramona's bandwagon and going after Bethenny would help matters as it seems that viewers are siding with Bethenny's take on Ramona's behaviour. If she left Bethenny's side to befriend Sonja and spend every conversation talking about how Sonja had Tom first, I don't think that would help in the court of public opinion. To be fair, I don't really read additional blogs (except the occasional HW blogs) so I may not necessarily have the most accurate pulse of what viewers are thinking but from what I've gathered here at least, it seems that it's not Bethenny that's the problem, it's the person Carole seems to be when she's with Bethenny.

[film noire]

5 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I could be completely wrong here, but I believe that if Carole had never become friends with Beth, she would be looked at in an entirely different way.

Long before Bethenny, Carole was damaged by the  Luann/Indian/First Nations exchange on camera/blog (plus, her sniggering at Reed's nasty comments about Sonja and Ramona being "overweight old ladies gone wild"). She earned it all on her own ;)

Edited July 25, 2017 by film noire

[film noire]

49 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

But forget about that comment that attempted to out Clooney (and used gay as a pejorative term), Carole is evil for using gay as if it was pejorative!!!

Actually, several people said the opposite - that gay was a positive status, not a negative one -- I missed Carole saying the same in her  GayTom (aka the Straight Womanizer) snotfest of a confessional.

[film noire]

2 hours ago, Ki-in said:

 I am also curious to see how many others were on the production team.

It was network news, so likely several people -- I feel like an idiot b/c I always assumed she'd done actual reporting/journalism at some point, not just producing  -- when she said she "reported" from the middle east,  I thought she had actually reported, not produced segments (eta: and being a news producer is a tough job, but if that was her only job in news? Well, that's not what I was giving her credit for, and not what words like "reporting" led me to believe she was doing.)

Edited July 25, 2017 by film noire

[Ki-in]

35 minutes ago, film noire said:

Long before Bethenny, Carole was damaged by the  Luann/Indian/First Nations exchange/blog (plus, her sniggering at Reed's nasty comments about Sonja and Ramona being "overweight old ladies gone wild"). She earned it all on her own ;)

Grabbing Aviva's face on the stairs and saying in her TH "I don't care if Luann's niece got hurt" was a pretty bad look on her as well

Using Anthony's ashes as a SL wasn't a good look either

[biakbiak]

Never liked her and always found her too cool for school airs to be ridiculous it is only her friendship with Heather that I saw anything redeeming about her.

[zoeysmom]

The way I look at Carole is she has evolved from her work as a journalist/producer, to when she became the story, her marriage to Anthony and the tragedy of JFK Jr., and her best friend's untimely demise.  It is like an attorney who represents a client, the attorney can't also be a witness, so her role and fame changed.  Liken her to Andy Cohen, Andy went from a degreed broadcast journalist, working for CBS news with  Dan Rather to network executive to on air talent which quite frankly he most likely would no longer be described as a journalist.  Carole's path was similar, she went from journalism, to writing a poignant memoir to reality star and I believe she also claimed title to producing the TV show from her novel.  (I haven't seen the TV show so I don't know where that went.)  Another example are women who go from modeling to building their empires.  Martha Stewart was a model, but what she has accomplished since her modeling days is astonishing.  Martha obviously used her modeling to get her image and product out.  Much like Martha who has done pretty much everything, Carole tends to rest on her laurels as a "journalist".   

I didn't agree with Carole point about how she was so much better informed than ghastly Ramona because she was a journalist.  Carole may know how to produce a news show, provide research for a news story it does not necessarily make her BETTER informed than the rest of us.  I watch cable news, I read the articles the pundits put out and I am similarly appalled as to how people didn't pay attention but I could not in good conscience say the electorate was really f'd up because they didn't spend the number of hours I did doing the research.  I ended up being in the minority as far ad the Electoral College. I thought Carole a bit of an elitist at the end of the day we all have to coexist.

[ryebread]

On 7/25/2017 at 2:29 AM, diadochokinesis said:

She also has an MBA from NYU which is ranked #12 in the USA. You don't get into that program or graduate from that program if you are lazy. 

 

On 7/25/2017 at 2:51 PM, RedheadZombie said:

Get out of here with your ridiculous FACTS. 

Before y'all start thinking Carole pledged with an Ivy League - not so much.  I don't think it's fact that NYU is ranked #12 in the country - now or ever.  Maybe Diadochokinesis can source that. 

But what I can tell you, as fact, is that when Carole went there in the 80s it absolutely was not ranked any where NEAR #12.  So the statement  that Carole attended a top 20 university and therefore couldn't possibly be a slacker to graduate from that program is misleading.  And I know this, because I went there (albeit as an undergrad) and I was kind of a slacker.  It was easy to get in.  As easy as any community college.  True story. 

No shame in that game but it kind of makes me think of how Kelly Bensimon says she's a graduate of Columbia, (and she is), but as we know there's a little more to the story...

That said, I'd be lying if I said I didn't milk my education from the 1980s NYU on my resume when I moved back to Michigan.  I didn't correct those who were looking at the new millennium NYU rankings and thinking NYU was always a top school.  Or those that confused it with other more prestigious, east coast universities.

Edited July 27, 2017 by ryebread

[Otherkate]

I'm in journalism and have done it both TV and online - I don't think anyone in the business would think twice about Carole being called a journalist for her role in producing news programs. If anything, it's the on air talent that sometimes gets the side eye for taking the glory without doing much of the work -- some of them are hardcore journalists too, but a lot are not. I can't defend the feet on the handlebars (WHY CAROLE), but this particular issue seems like cracker eating to me. 

[zoeysmom]

28 minutes ago, Otherkate said:

I'm in journalism and have done it both TV and online - I don't think anyone in the business would think twice about Carole being called a journalist for her role in producing news programs. If anything, it's the on air talent that sometimes gets the side eye for taking the glory without doing much of the work -- some of them are hardcore journalists too, but a lot are not. I can't defend the feet on the handlebars (WHY CAROLE), but this particular issue seems like cracker eating to me. 

So does being a journalist automatically make you better informed in a national election?  My issue is she hasn't been a practicing journalist in years.   According to one of Carole's most recent tweets one of her jobs at ABC was babysitting Olivia Wilde, her mentor's daughter. 

[Mindthinkr]

7 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

So does being a journalist automatically make you better informed in a national election?  My issue is she hasn't been a practicing journalist in years.   According to one of Carole's most recent tweets one of her jobs at ABC was babysitting Olivia Wilde, her mentor's daughter. 

Carole actually texted that to Andy the other night when Olivia was on and she confirmed it. 

[Otherkate]

21 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

So does being a journalist automatically make you better informed in a national election?  My issue is she hasn't been a practicing journalist in years.   

Nah, but I was only addressing the conversation regarding whether or not someone who was a producer could be considered a journalist. 

I do, however, think that not being Ramona, probably does make you better informed than Ramona on pretty much most things. 

[film noire]

1 hour ago, Otherkate said:

I'm in journalism and have done it both TV and online - I don't think anyone in the business would think twice about Carole being called a journalist for her role in producing news programs. If anything, it's the on air talent that sometimes gets the side eye for taking the glory without doing much of the work -- some of them are hardcore journalists too, but a lot are not. 

Thanks for weighing in -- Radziwill differentiates between the two in this quote, so I figure she must have done reporting at some point (?):

"I spent 15 years as a journalist and producer at ABC News, and I thought, ‘OK, I need to figure out this story and solve it somehow,'" she shared. "I need to figure out where they are, because they're somewhere."

http://www.eonline.com/news/834256/rhony-s-carole-radziwill-opens-up-about-john-f-kennedy-jr-and-carolyn-bessette-s-deadly-plane-crash

Quote

If anything, it's the on air talent that sometimes gets the side eye for taking the glory without doing much of the work -- some of them are hardcore journalists too, but a lot are not. 

Well, d'uh! Years of research (mumble mumble Broadcast News ;) taught me on air talent are often show ponies!

34 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

Carole actually texted that to Andy the other night when Olivia was on and she confirmed it. 

She was a babysitter for Cockburn at ABC news?

NOW YOU'RE ALL JUST FUCKING WITH MY HEAD.

[Atlanta]

Working at the Big Three is hard to break into. I give her cred for that. She makes it seem like she was writing copy. Even writing copy for b-cast is a diff animal than writing for print. From reading her blog and Twitter vs. books, holy cannoli. Different animals. Most authors have a 'voice' or style. I have an MA in Mass Comm and am working on a book. I'm not an expert, but your 'voice' doesn't suddenly change. An author's style is usually what endears people an author. You find someone whose style you like and you keep buying that person's books. I read "What Remains" (love--and it's rumored her sister ghost wrote) and the lame "Widow's Guide." It came off as written by different people. Yes, they are different genres, but you don't swap personalities.  Carole originally brought me into watching this show and I flounced for a season. Tinsley brought me back. I'm more inclined to think that Tinsley wrote her book vs. Carole. She (Carole) had an outline, but had a heavy hand at editing. I bought that book with high hopes, but it was pointless. In her years at ABC, she may have excelled at her role, but that doesn't make you an engaging storyteller. No, I didn't start as a Carole hater, but, at least, her edits and crazy rants made me discount her.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Atlanta

[biakbiak]

2 hours ago, Atlanta said:

and it's rumored her sister ghost wrote)

One of several people who was tossed out as a rumor was her ex-sister in law, Teresa Difalco, not her sister.

[diadochokinesis]

9 hours ago, ryebread said:

Before y'all start thinking Carole pledged with an Ivy League - not so much.  I don't think it's fact that NYU is ranked #12 in the country - now or ever.  Maybe Diadochokinesis can source that. 

But what I can tell you, as fact, is that when Carole went there in the 80s it absolutely was not ranked any where NEAR #12.  So the statement  that Carole attended a top 20 university and therefore couldn't possibly be a slacker to graduate from that program is misleading.  And I know this, because I went there (albeit as an undergrad) and I was kind of a slacker.  It was easy to get in.  As easy as any community college.  True story. 

No shame in that game but it kind of makes me think of how Kelly Bensimon says she's a graduate of Columbia, (and she is), but as we know there's a little more to the story...

That said, I'd be lying if I said I didn't milk my education from the 1980s NYU on my resume when I moved back to Michigan.  I didn't correct those who were looking at the new millennium NYU rankings and thinking NYU was always a top school.  Or those that confused it with other more prestigious, east coast universities.

2

Their MBA program is #12 in the nation according to US News and World Reports which is a credible source for academic program rankings. MBA programs would differ than their general undergra. The MBA program has always been highly respected. 

[Ki-in]

NYU is not Ivy League.  

There are 8 Ivy League Schools: Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, University of Pennsylvania, Princeton and Yale. The Ivy League is a collegiate athletic conference comprising sports teams from eight private institutions of higher education in the Northeastern United States. The conference name is also commonly used to refer to those eight schools as a group beyond the sports context.[2] The eight institutions are Brown University, Columbia University, Cornell University, Dartmouth College, Harvard University, the University of Pennsylvania, Princeton University, and Yale University. The term Ivy League has connotations of academic excellence, selectivity in admissions, and social elitism.

While the term was in use as early as 1933, it only became official after the formation of the NCAA Division I athletic conference in 1954.[3] Seven of the eight schools were founded during the United States colonial period. Cornell was founded in 1865. Ivy League institutions account for seven of the nine Colonial Colleges chartered before the American Revolution; the other two are Rutgers University and the College of William & Mary.

[diadochokinesis]

18 minutes ago, Ki-in said:

NYU is not Ivy League.  

There are 8 Ivy League Schools: Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, University of Pennsylvania, Princeton and Yale. The Ivy League is a collegiate athletic conference comprising sports teams from eight private institutions of higher education in the Northeastern United States. The conference name is also commonly used to refer to those eight schools as a group beyond the sports context.[2] The eight institutions are Brown University, Columbia University, Cornell University, Dartmouth College, Harvard University, the University of Pennsylvania, Princeton University, and Yale University. The term Ivy League has connotations of academic excellence, selectivity in admissions, and social elitism.

While the term was in use as early as 1933, it only became official after the formation of the NCAA Division I athletic conference in 1954.[3] Seven of the eight schools were founded during the United States colonial period. Cornell was founded in 1865. Ivy League institutions account for seven of the nine Colonial Colleges chartered before the American Revolution; the other two are Rutgers University and the College of William & Mary.

Nobody ever made the claim that she went to an Ivy League. You can look back at my original post and I never stated that she went to an Ivy. I stated that the NYU MBA program is a good program (#12 in the nation according to U.S. News and World Reports). Nobody ever stated that she went to an Ivy. @ryebread took my quote and falsely stated that I was saying she went to an Ivy league school. 

[Ki-in]

I know you didn't claim that NYU was Ivy League which is why I didn't quote you or mention you specifically in the post (Ryebread either).  I was just clarifying because I've heard people throw that phrase around for top tier schools that aren't IL but are excellent. :-)

Edited July 27, 2017 by Ki-in