Bethenny & Jason: The Divorce Showdown

[ZoloftBlob]

I meant actually not present as well. She went to live with her mom in NY, he was on the West coast. There were occasional visits and then he cut her off after the mom argued about support with him. It sure doesn't sound like he was a presence in her life.

[zoeysmom]

47 minutes ago, shoegal said:

This all seems to be predicated on the idea that Bethenny said that her father walked out and abandoned her "without a backwards glance"...but is that really what she said?  Just because maybe you might not have heard about Bethenny living with her dad for a year after he left her mother, it doesn't mean that Bethenny withheld this info.  In fact, here is an article in People Magazine from seven years ago that tells that exact story.

“I never had a true childhood,” Frankel says, sitting barefoot on the sofa in her roomy downtown apartment after nursing Bryn and settling her down for a nap. “There was a lot of destruction: alcohol abuse, eating disorders and violent fights,” she says. The only child of legendary horse trainer Bobby Frankel and his first wife, Bernadette, Frankel was 4 years old when her father walked out, leaving her with a mother who was “extremely volatile. She was never a mother to me.” She temporarily moved with her father to Los Angeles, but Bobby Frankel “lived a very hotshot life-drugs, young girls,” she recalls. “It wasn’t a life for a little girl. I never watched cartoons. I was always at restaurants or the racetrack.”

After her mother married another horse trainer, John Parisella, Frankel returned to New York at age 5 and moved at least seven times over the next 10 years. Though she occasionally visited her father, he cut her off when her mother accused him of withholding money. “He said, ‘I’m washing my hands of the whole situation,'” Frankel recalls bitterly."  http://people.com/archive/cover-story-bethenny-frankel-love-saved-my-life-vol-73-no-28/

 

Could it be that Bethenny told the story, but not everyone heard it??

I am sorry but there are certain inconsistencies in this story. They may be the fault of the writer or maybe Bethenny was just so emotional and in love her facts got mixed up.

First her father left her at age 4 with a mess of a mother.  She temporarily moved with her father to Los Angeles.  (so did he leave and come back for her?) Frankel returned at age 5 to New York.  So was this  a summer visit or what exactly was it?  Then there was visitation but in one of her yarns she said the only time she was to go see her father at about age 10, the visit was cancelled because her mother wanted her to have a first class ticket and Bethenny was sick.  Occasional visits don't coincide with no visits.   I have no idea from this article what age Bethenny was when Frankel washed his hands of the whole mess.

Bethenny also professed her undying love for Jason a regular guy with a regular salary.  Love, ,love, love.  Bethenny also stated, "I am never going to have her in my daughter's life," about her mother.  Surprise Bethenny and Bryn contacted her mother and Bethenny talked of going to see her last fall.  

Regarding her father's death, "he was done, "she says of a denied deathbed visit, "I didn't exist to him."  Stop the presses what about the eulogy she gave at her father's funeral where she claimed the reconnect in the weeks before his death.  Both stories cannot both be true.

Anyway thanks for the link it reinforces the confusion and contradctions many of us have been discussing. 

[motorcitymom65]

1 hour ago, shoegal said:

This all seems to be predicated on the idea that Bethenny said that her father walked out and abandoned her "without a backwards glance"...but is that really what she said?  Just because maybe you might not have heard about Bethenny living with her dad for a year after he left her mother, it doesn't mean that Bethenny withheld this info.  In fact, here is an article in People Magazine from seven years ago that tells that exact story.

“I never had a true childhood,” Frankel says, sitting barefoot on the sofa in her roomy downtown apartment after nursing Bryn and settling her down for a nap. “There was a lot of destruction: alcohol abuse, eating disorders and violent fights,” she says. The only child of legendary horse trainer Bobby Frankel and his first wife, Bernadette, Frankel was 4 years old when her father walked out, leaving her with a mother who was “extremely volatile. She was never a mother to me.” She temporarily moved with her father to Los Angeles, but Bobby Frankel “lived a very hotshot life-drugs, young girls,” she recalls. “It wasn’t a life for a little girl. I never watched cartoons. I was always at restaurants or the racetrack.”

After her mother married another horse trainer, John Parisella, Frankel returned to New York at age 5 and moved at least seven times over the next 10 years. Though she occasionally visited her father, he cut her off when her mother accused him of withholding money. “He said, ‘I’m washing my hands of the whole situation,'” Frankel recalls bitterly."  http://people.com/archive/cover-story-bethenny-frankel-love-saved-my-life-vol-73-no-28/

 

Could it be that Bethenny told the story, but not everyone heard it??

You are going to get a lot of posts, more even than the amount of emails Hoppy sent Beth, pointing out things that are perceived as omissions or just flat out lies about this because she didn't go into book length descriptions of every detail. And that is necessary. But I appreciate you posting it because I had never read this before. 

[shoegal]

9 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I am sorry but there are certain inconsistencies in this story. They may be the fault of the writer or maybe Bethenny was just so emotional and in love her facts got mixed up.

First her father left her at age 4 with a mess of a mother.  She temporarily moved with her father to Los Angeles.  (so did he leave and come back for her?) Frankel returned at age 5 to New York.  So was this  a summer visit or what exactly was it?  Then there was visitation but in one of her yarns she said the only time she was to go see her father at about age 10, the visit was cancelled because her mother wanted her to have a first class ticket and Bethenny was sick.  Occasional visits don't coincide with no visits.   I have no idea from this article what age Bethenny was when Frankel washed his hands of the whole mess.

Bethenny also professed her undying love for Jason a regular guy with a regular salary.  Love, ,love, love.  Bethenny also stated, "I am never going to have her in my daughter's life," about her mother.  Surprise Bethenny and Bryn contacted her mother and Bethenny talked of going to see her last fall.  

Regarding her father's death, "he was done, "she says of a denied deathbed visit, "I didn't exist to him."  Stop the presses what about the eulogy she gave at her father's funeral where she claimed the reconnect in the weeks before his death.  Both stories cannot both be true.

Anyway thanks for the link it reinforces the confusion and contradctions many of us have been discussing. 

Actually, they can both be true.  There was an initial reach out where Bobby refused to see Bethenny (the "denied deathbed visit"), then days later I believe, he reached out to her and they reconnected right before he died.  I think this is the issue when each statement or event is picked apart into tiny microscopic pieces and analyzed for any and every "inconsistency" when the truth is that shit is just complicated.  That's all. 

Edited July 6, 2017 by shoegal

[zoeysmom]

1 minute ago, motorcitymom65 said:

You are going to get a lot of posts, more even than the amount of emails Hoppy sent Beth, pointing out things that are perceived as omissions or just flat out lies about this because she didn't go into book length descriptions of every detail. And that is necessary. But I appreciate you posting it because I had never read this before. 

There are contradictions and omissions in the article.   

[film noire]

3 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

 But I appreciate you posting it because I had never read this before. 

A link to her book was posted here a few days ago -- if you have Amazon prime, you can read the first sixty pages.

Edited July 6, 2017 by film noire

[shoegal]

4 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

You are going to get a lot of posts, more even than the amount of emails Hoppy sent Beth, pointing out things that are perceived as omissions or just flat out lies about this because she didn't go into book length descriptions of every detail. And that is necessary. But I appreciate you posting it because I had never read this before. 

LOL, yes, there are even "contradictions" like Bethenny said seven years ago she wasn't going to have her mother involved with Bryn.  She's such a LIAR!!!!

Edited July 6, 2017 by shoegal

[motorcitymom65]

27 minutes ago, film noire said:

A link to her book was posted here a few days ago -- if you have prime, you can read the first sixty pages.

Thanks Film Noire. I did read that it had been posted. But honestly, I like Beth. Much more than most. But I would rather light myself on fire than read even a page in her book. Even the gals I like, I just don't have enough interest in to do that. I count on you nice folks to keep me in the loop! 

Edited July 6, 2017 by motorcitymom65

[zoeysmom]

Just now, shoegal said:

Actually, they can both be true.  There was an initial reach out where Bobby refused to see Bethenny, then days later I believe, he reached out to her and the reconnected right before he died.  I think this is the issue when each statement or event is picked apart into tiny microscopic pieces and analyzed for any and every "inconsistency" when the truth is that shit is just complicated.  That's all. 

It is not microscopic pieces.  There is a world of difference between being denied a deathbed visit and giving a eulogy at your father's funeral describing how the two of you had become close in his last weeks of life.  That is basically HUGE.  (BTW I only found out after I linked a story and some host of a reality show said Bethenny wasn't at the funeral.  Another poster put up a link that quoted the eulogy and what Bethenny said about her father.)

4 minutes ago, shoegal said:

LOL, yes, there are even "contradictions" like Bethenny said seven years ago she wasn't going to have her mother involved with Bryn.  She's such a LIAR!!!!

I can understand her reasons for contacting her mother-Bryn asked.  It is just an indication of how Bethenny has this mind set of you are in or you are out.  Ask Jason.

[film noire]

7 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

 But I would rather light myself on fire than read even a page in her book. Even the gals I like, I just don't have enough interest in to do that. 

LOL

Edited July 6, 2017 by film noire

[shoegal]

3 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

It is not microscopic pieces.  There is a world of difference between being denied a deathbed visit and giving a eulogy at your father's funeral describing how the two of you had become close in his last weeks of life.  That is basically HUGE.  (BTW I only found out after I linked a story and some host of a reality show said Bethenny wasn't at the funeral.  Another poster put up a link that quoted the eulogy and what Bethenny said about her father.)

But they are both TRUE.  Bethenny was initially denied a deathbed visit, then days (I think) later she was summoned and did get a visit where they had a bit of closure.   We actually saw this play out on the show.  Pretty sure the fact that Bethenny was at the funeral was covered because she left LA to join Scary Island, I believe she said something about she just buried her father.  

Edited July 6, 2017 by shoegal

[zoeysmom]

1 minute ago, shoegal said:

But they are both TRUE.  Bethenny was initially denied a deathbed visit, then days (I think) later she was summoned and did get a visit where they had a bit of closure.   We actually saw this play out on the show.  Pretty sure the fact that Bethenny was at the funeral was covered because she left LA to join Scary Island, I believe she said something about she just buried her father.  

They aren't both true.  Bethenny did not mention the resolution she had with her father and eulogized about in the article.  An omission of a material fact is also called lying.  On the show she was mad at her dad-who as we all know we saw her tell the others she had visited-because he said he had a full life.  WTF?  Here is the thing if one who never watches the show and you read the story one is left with the impression she was turned away and didn't exist to him.  Forget if someone else knows something to the contrary-that is what the writer via Bethenny conveyed to the readers.

[shoegal]

9 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

They aren't both true.  Bethenny did not mention the resolution she had with her father and eulogized about in the article.  An omission of a material fact is also called lying.  On the show she was mad at her dad-who as we all know we saw her tell the others she had visited-because he said he had a full life.  WTF?  Here is the thing if one who never watches the show and you read the story one is left with the impression she was turned away and didn't exist to him.  Forget if someone else knows something to the contrary-that is what the writer via Bethenny conveyed to the readers.

Actually, she did, I remember her saying on the show that she and father were able to get to a good place before he died, as good as could be expected, however, yes she was disappointed that he didn't express regret for their relationship having been so estranged.  It is possible for both of these things to be true as well.   

At the end of the day, every single story cannot tell every single fact, every single time....especially when you have editors and writers who are the ones who control what is ultimately presented.  That's not lying,  that's making  mountains out of hole mills IMO.  TM Ramona. 

Edited July 6, 2017 by shoegal

[zoeysmom]

Just now, shoegal said:

Actually, she did, I remember her saying on the show that she and father were able to get to a good place before he died, as good as could be expected, however, yes she was disappointed that he didn't express regret for their relationship having been so estranged.  It is possible for both of these things to be true as well.   

As I noted if one didn't watch the show they would have no idea she went back. This has nothing to do with the People Magazine article and the omission.  Betheny complained about her dad-she was upset he claimed to have had a full life.  . 

[Lisin]

Stop. Snarking. Each. Other. 

[shoegal]

4 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

As I noted if one didn't watch the show they would have no idea she went back. This has nothing to do with the People Magazine article and the omission.  Betheny complained about her dad-she was upset he claimed to have had a full life.  . 

Bethenny also said on the show that she and her father were able to get some resolution.  Which can also be true, even if she was upset that he stated he had a full life.   Both can be true. 

[the killer]

Bethenny is a superb sales person. You can't take it away from her. She has sold disgusting swill for a lot of money just based on her bullshit.

Selling is about lying. Or maybe not lying but just telling enough to make the sale. Talk up the good points and omit the bad. Talk about how it is low in calories and perfect to stay skinny. Omit the fact that it tastes like possum piss.

Now she has adapted sales techniques to every portion of her life.

Somebody should send her a copy of "The Death of a Salesman."

I think she might benefit from a cautionary tale.

[Otherkate]

On 7/3/2017 at 10:47 PM, zoeysmom said:

Bethenny talking about how she never wanted to marry Jason.  What a contrast to her bullshit "Place of Yes" book.  Jason this, Jason that, Jasone letting me love again, Jason doing the heavy lifting in the chold care department.    http://www.realitytea.com/2015/06/16/bethenny-frankel-knew-marriage-to-jason-hoppy-would-end-in-divorce-blames-andy-cohen/

No disrespect to you, ZM, but I mean, welcome to the wonderful world of divorce. When I look back at the things I wrote in my journal or said to people about my now ex-husband, I can't believe those things came out of my mouth. I don't even recognize him now as the same person I knew then, though I'm quite sure that he is. He's no monster and certainly people still seem to like him, but he's like a totally different man to me now. The person I looked at with real love back in those early years is not the person I looked at the day we decided to separate, never mind all these years later. I, too, look back and say I should have listened to my gut and not gone through with it. Thankfully, I have my kids who I would not have had if I'd listened to my brain back then. Certainly Bethenny is not the first person to feel wedding jitters even though she loved the person and then, years later, look back and say "I should have listened to my gut then and saved myself from this hell!"

On 7/4/2017 at 5:30 PM, LIMOM said:

Why were her talk show and radio show  cancelled then?

Because she was a terrible talk show host and the show was seriously awful. A friend of mine worked on it, so I made an effort to watch it, but even though I like Bethenny, I thought she was one of the worst talk show hosts I'd ever seen. 

[zoeysmom]

3 minutes ago, Otherkate said:

No disrespect to you, ZM, but I mean, welcome to the wonderful world of divorce. When I look back at the things I wrote in my journal or said to people about my now ex-husband, I can't believe those things came out of my mouth. I don't even recognize him now as the same person I knew then, though I'm quite sure that he is. He's no monster and certainly people still seem to like him, but he's like a totally different man to me now. The person I looked at with real love back in those early years is not the person I looked at the day we decided to separate, never mind all these years later. I, too, look back and say I should have listened to my gut and not gone through with it. Thankfully, I have my kids who I would not have had if I'd listened to my brain back then. Certainly Bethenny is not the first person to feel wedding jitters even though she loved the person and then, years later, look back and say "I should have listened to my gut then and saved myself from this hell!"

Because she was a terrible talk show host and the show was seriously awful. A friend of mine worked on it, so I made an effort to watch it, but even though I like Bethenny, I thought she was one of the worst talk show hosts I'd ever seen. 

The number one thing, and it is usually with the strongest willed RHs they say that makes me shake my head-"I have no regrets."  Ms. Frankel has said it fairly often.  It seems she does have regrets for not listening to her "gut". I agree people do have a change of heart.  I realize she got married on TV, and I didn't see where she was uncertain about getting married or didn't love Jason.  So she is either lying or acting.  It just seems disingenuous to me when she and a little disrespectful to Bryn's dad to start in with the I didn't really love him nonsense.  The marriage over and there is no need to spike the ball in the end zone.  One thing I heard form a therapist is when a party splits up and they express a lot of regret about ever getting together and there are children involved children can be made to feel that they aren't loved or the parent expressing their change of heart could do the same to them.  Although technically much of this isn't in front of Bryn, Bethenny's books I am sure are available to her.  It is too terribly long before she will have access to the internet.   I do believe Bethenny has a pretty insatiable appetite for press and magazine covers.  Seven years later I even question if she would be as revealing about her upbringing as she was back then.  Just because Bethenny as a now parent and a child of divorce perceptions can be very different.

I don't think talk shows or radio shows are Bethenny's fit.  Even this show with Fredrik I question if the world really wants an hour of cock and ball jokes and Bethenny's alleged expertise in buying, selling and designing homes for profit.  As far as I know she has bought, renovated and sold one house.  She does have a lot of talent on marketing and branding and her view doesn't necessarily work on everything. 

[motorcitymom65]

28 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

The number one thing, and it is usually with the strongest willed RHs they say that makes me shake my head-"I have no regrets."  Ms. Frankel has said it fairly often.  It seems she does have regrets for not listening to her "gut". I agree people do have a change of heart.  I realize she got married on TV, and I didn't see where she was uncertain about getting married or didn't love Jason.  So she is either lying or acting.  It just seems disingenuous to me when she and a little disrespectful to Bryn's dad to start in with the I didn't really love him nonsense.  The marriage over and there is no need to spike the ball in the end zone.  One thing I heard form a therapist is when a party splits up and they express a lot of regret about ever getting together and there are children involved children can be made to feel that they aren't loved or the parent expressing their change of heart could do the same to them.  Although technically much of this isn't in front of Bryn, Bethenny's books I am sure are available to her.  It is too terribly long before she will have access to the internet.   I do believe Bethenny has a pretty insatiable appetite for press and magazine covers.  Seven years later I even question if she would be as revealing about her upbringing as she was back then.  Just because Bethenny as a now parent and a child of divorce perceptions can be very different.

I don't think talk shows or radio shows are Bethenny's fit.  Even this show with Fredrik I question if the world really wants an hour of cock and ball jokes and Bethenny's alleged expertise in buying, selling and designing homes for profit.  As far as I know she has bought, renovated and sold one house.  She does have a lot of talent on marketing and branding and her view doesn't necessarily work on everything. 

She doesn't have to be doing either. Regrets are fluid. They change as a person moves through their life. 

Since long before there was an internet, children of divorce have been dealing with the knowledge that their parents don't love each other and don't want to be together. In some cases of the reality that they didn't really ever belong together. Children are resilient. They get through this. 

[smores]

I am not sure that saying that you had doubts from the beginning is the same as saying you regret something.  Or, I'll use my own life, I don't really believe in regrets.  I just don't see the point, because A) I can't go back and change the situation now and B) whatever I did then made made me who I am today and C) I did the best I could/made the best decision I could/etc, with what I knew at the time.  So, as most people do, I have a relationship that I stayed in waaaaay longer than I should have.  The guy was an asshole, but, because I was young, I thought I could fix him and there you have it.  Now, on the one hand, I do look back and say "What in the world was I thinking?" But, that's with what I know NOW, and I quickly answer myself and say- "You were young, you were dumb and you thought you could fix him.  You learned you can't do that"  And the I go on about my day.  So, I see B saying she had doubts at the beginning and she should have trusted her gut in the same vein as me saying- what was I thinking? (Because, look, even back then I had times where I was like, should I stay, should I leave him? I don't like what he's doing, but I looooove him, etc) And ultimately, she doesn't regret it, she did what she did then, she is where she is now.  But, there were doubts, and knowing what you know now, yeah, maybe that wasn't the best choice.  (See also high school hair that I thought was awesome!)

As for Bryn's perception, you know, I don't know that it's going to be a huge issue.  I was raised by bitterly divorced parents, and it literally just is a part of my life.  Some people are only children, my parents were divorced.  That's how it worked.  Other people are Catholic.  They were both always clear that the divorce was not at all because of the kids (and I'll be willing to bet that B and Jason are both clear about this with Bryn).  Beyond that, my parents basically said, sometimes relationships don't work out, it may not be that someone did one big thing (no cheating, etc), just that they were not meant to be together, and that was the case with them.  They tried, it didn't work and it was better for everyone for them to be apart.  And that was it. Granted, I was relatively young when they split, but, that's also the case from Bryn, so, when it's just a fact, a thing that is, then you don't always feel a whole lot about it either way.

[HunterHunted]

11 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

She doesn't have to be doing either. Regrets are fluid. They change as a person moves through their life. 

Since long before there was an internet, children of divorce have been dealing with the knowledge that their parents don't love each other and don't want to be together. In some cases of the reality that they didn't really ever belong together. Children are resilient. They get through this. 

I just think of that poor woman, Hannah, on Southern Charm: Savanah whose father drunkenly revealed to her boyfriend that he made a mistake marrying her mother. He completely regretted it and that he didn't want his daughter's boyfriend to make the same mistakes he did.

Bryn will have lived her entire life knowing that her parents didn't have a great marriage and had an acrimonious divorce. As long as they try to keep the badmouthing to a minimum, Bryn might actually end up fairly normal. Hannah on Southern Charm: Savanah has to learn in her 20s that her father has nothing but regrets about his marriage to her mother at the same time that he revealed this info on national TV. Luckily no one watched the show or she might have been really humiliated.

[Jextella]

I'm not following the case with great detail but anyone know why Gottlieb dropped Jason as a client?  No speculation but rather publicly stated reasons???

[smores]

Yeah, Hannah's father is an asshole.  A responsible adult, a responsible parent would keep that little gem to themselves and never put their child in the position of having that knowledge (or, their potential future spouse, for that matter).  

I think any kid whose parents divorce knows on some level that their parents didn't have a great marriage.  Otherwise, they'd still be married, right? (And, listen, I've known kids who wished their parents would split because shit was that bad between them, so, it's not just kids with divorced parents who grow up knowing their parents have a bad marriage) The acrimonious divorce depends on how the parties handle it, but, hopefully they can settle things down and figure out a way to move on and just get a routine going where things are calm and this just becomes normal life.  If that happens, then I think it will end up having less of an impact on Bryn than if they divorced when she was older.  

[BBHN]

Quote

Could it be that Bethenny told the story, but not everyone heard it??

Always a definite possibility.

Quote

Bethenny also professed her undying love for Jason a regular guy with a regular salary.  Love, ,love, love.  Bethenny also stated, "I am never going to have her in my daughter's life," about her mother.  Surprise Bethenny and Bryn contacted her mother and Bethenny talked of going to see her last fall.  

People can change over time. Just because someone says something that doesn't mean they bound by it for the rest of their lives and can never change their feelings about something ever. That isn't how real human beings work.

Quote

Regarding her father's death, "he was done, "she says of a denied deathbed visit, "I didn't exist to him."  Stop the presses what about the eulogy she gave at her father's funeral where she claimed the reconnect in the weeks before his death.  Both stories cannot both be true.

Actually, they can.

Quote

Actually, they can both be true.  There was an initial reach out where Bobby refused to see Bethenny, then days later I believe, he reached out to her and the reconnected right before he died.  I think this is the issue when each statement or event is picked apart into tiny microscopic pieces and analyzed for any and every "inconsistency" when the truth is that shit is just complicated.  That's all. 

Exactly.

Quote

Anyway thanks for the link it reinforces the confusion and contradctions many of us have been discussing. 

And clears things up for the rest of us.

Quote

An omission of a material fact is also called lying

Not outside of a court of law. Which, Bethenny isn't in. But Jason is :D

Quote

It is just an indication of how Bethenny has this mind set of you are in or you are out.  Ask Jason.

Given that Jason is a stalking douchebag who likes to harass people to point where he gets charged for it, putting Jason "out" may not have been the worst thing Bethenny did.

Quote

I'm not following the case with great detail but anyone know why Gottlieb dropped Jason as a client?  No speculation but rather publicly stated reasons???

Why discuss any of this on the Bethenny/Jason divorce thread? This is the place to discuss Bethenny's relationship to her father, apparently. Since that was such a big part of her divorce from Jason.

Edited July 6, 2017 by BBHN

[Inspectabecky]

14 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

I always saw the turning point about Bethenny's feelings for Jason taking a turn when she became concerned he was the nice guy personality to her neurotic personality.  I watched the first two seasons, enjoying it for the most part.  The people Bethenny used as props to show her impulsive , whacky personality always seemed very, very fake and forced.  The scenes with she and Jason seemed genuine.  As did the scenes about building  her Skinnygirl Margarita brand.  I mean we the viewers didn't know at the time she was contractually tied to a contract with her partner where she was to market the brand on her TV show.   

 

Girl me and you are right here >--<, this is what I come back to as well. I have a new theory in light of hearing how long everyone knew she was pregnant way before we saw her pee.  So she completely produced that exposition and I had trouble buying the 'it leaked, Jason's gonna freak we have to tell his parents first' plotline.  So I'm thinking the narrative was to play up his anti-industry small town/family guy side when she was in love and introducing him to her fans.  its the perfect foil to her fast talking boss bitch self, like you said.  Then when the love is fading she begins to resent that depiction and wants everyone to know that he's also a gas lighting neg-aholic.  I just didn't totally understand what she was so stuck on when I first watched, like she really wanted to call him out but couldn't, maybe a bit of  "I made you and don't forget it trashbox!' at play lol.

[motorcitymom65]

5 hours ago, BBHN said:

Why discuss any of this on the Bethenny/Jason divorce thread? This is the place to discuss Bethenny's relationship to her father, apparently. Since that was such a big part of her divorce from Jason.

Hey, maybe we should start another Beth thread. There could be the regular old Beth thread, the Divorce Thread, and the "she omitted seeing her father on a few occasions which ultimately led to her divorce and means that she can never be believed and why Jason can never be called a dick" thread. It's a long title for a thread, so maybe someone better at brevity can edit the title?

Edited July 6, 2017 by motorcitymom65

[diadochokinesis]

2 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Hey, maybe we should start another Beth thread. There could be the regular old Beth thread, the Divorce Thread, and the "she omitted seeing her father on a few occasions which ultimately led to her divorce and means that she can never be believed and why Jason can never be called a dick" thread. It's a long title for a thread, so maybe someone better at brevity can edit the title?

Bethenny and the Laundry List of her Egregious Lies?

Proof Bethenny is The Devil?

Bethenny and the Case of Pinocchio's Nose?

SkinnyLies?

[glowbug]

How do we know Gottlieb dropped Jason? Just asking because I couldn't find any links to say one way or another why Jason switched attorneys. I didn't look that hard so it's possible there was some statement to that affect and I just missed it. 

[film noire]

..just realized responding to mcm's post -- however humorously  - might force Lisin into a "whaddya you people doing?" position.

Instead, here is a photo of LuAnn's first family dinner with Tom!

Edited July 6, 2017 by film noire

[ZoloftBlob]

No no no, lies aren't facts, silly monkey. They are "alternative facts". ;)

[film noire]

1 hour ago, ZoloftBlob said:

No no no, lies aren't facts, silly monkey. They are "alternative facts". ;)

LOL (nice return volley,  sorry the post is gone ;)

Edited July 6, 2017 by film noire

[zoeysmom]

7 hours ago, glowbug said:

How do we know Gottlieb dropped Jason? Just asking because I couldn't find any links to say one way or another why Jason switched attorneys. I didn't look that hard so it's possible there was some statement to that affect and I just missed it. 

We don't.  It was just made up stuff and suppositions.  Chances are we never will know the reason he made a statement on Jason's behalf to the press.  It could be a simple as he had  a conflict of interest in representing Jason or Jason wanted Spiro and he wasn't available that day to make a comment.  Or the biggie maybe Jason could not afford him.  In any even it would be incorrect to say Gottlieb fired Jason as he had never even made an appearance.   

[zoeysmom]

14 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Hey, maybe we should start another Beth thread. There could be the regular old Beth thread, the Divorce Thread, and the "she omitted seeing her father on a few occasions which ultimately led to her divorce and means that she can never be believed and why Jason can never be called a dick" thread. It's a long title for a thread, so maybe someone better at brevity can edit the title?

I believe the discussion of Bethenny and her relationship with her parents came from Carole's assertion how devastating it was to Bethnny's emotional and mental health to be called by her mother's name "Bernadette".  In  addition to the Bernadette allegations, Jason has indicated he was not going to be treated by Bethenny  as her mother treated her father. Bethenny has previously stated her mother interfered with a relationship with her father and kept her from seeing her during her minority.. 

At this point with the trial about a month away it seems reasonable to discuss the possible comments that cause material harm to Bethenny's emotional and mental health as well possible defenses proffered by Jason.

Jason is often called an asshole and jerk so adding dick to the list shouldn't necessitate starting a new thread.

[Celia Rubenstein]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

At this point with the trial about a month away it seems reasonable to discuss the possible comments that cause material harm to Bethenny's emotional and mental health as well possible defenses proffered by Jason.

Okay, I'm game. 

I think Jason calling Bethenny "Bernadette" was a shitty, hateful thing to do, solely intended to suggest to Bethenny that she was as foul a human being as her mother is.  He was using it as an insult, not some kind of plea that he not be shut out of Bryn's life.  He managed to communicate that particular concern clearly enough when he clearly stated that he would not allow Beth to cut him off from Bryn the way her mother cut Beth off from Bobby.  Why go on to call Bethenny "Bernadette" after that?  

The answer: to be a dick.  To hurt Bethenny.  To suggest and confirm her worst fears as a mother - that she was as horrible a parent to Bryn as Bernadette was to her.  

I see no other reason for him to say such a thing.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Celia Rubenstein

[smores]

I agree.  To go at it from a slightly different angle, I have said before that I have a sibling that I do not get along with and have very little to do with (am only civil in family situations where we have to be in the same place at the same time).  To tell the truth, I can't stand this person, and we really never got along, even as children.  As we got older, I found their behavior more and more intolerable, and refuse to subject myself to it any longer.  So, my husband knows this, and he knows very well why I have little to do with that sibling.  If, for some reason he opted to start calling me by that sibling's name, it would be incredibly cruel as well as insulting.  There'd be no reason to call me that name other than as a way to cut me down emotionally.  

That's how I see Jason and the Bernadette thing.  He knows why B has issues with her.  I'm sure that much more extensive conversations were had away from the cameras about why things were the way they were between B and Bernadette.  I also seem to remember B going around and around about calling her mother when Bryn was born, so again, Jason knew the wounds he'd be ripping open if he went there.  And then he went there.  That's a deliberate choice, something you do only to hurt.  

[motorcitymom65]

2 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

At this point with the trial about a month away it seems reasonable to discuss the possible comments that cause material harm to Bethenny's emotional and mental health as well possible defenses proffered by Jason.

 

I am no legal expert, but would be surprised to hear that Jason could find a way to aid his defense by explaining the reasons he thought it helpful in terms of communicating with Bethenny was to call her by her mothers name. There is simply no way that doing so is not a total and complete mind fuck, and says almost more about him than many of the other things. And the list of the other things is long. 

Edited July 7, 2017 by motorcitymom65

[smores]

I should also add, if you said that Jason called B Bernadette 4 years ago when they were separating, I'd have said it was a dick thing to say, but people say some stupid shit when the marriage is falling apart.  It wouldn't have made it right or excused it, but, much like the often quoted B saying she'd keep Bryn away from Jason, I'd have kind of written it off to being a regrettable thing that shouldn't have been said at a really stressful time when both parties were trying to find new footing.  I think when people break up, they might be stupid and say or do things they would maybe like to take back later on, then after the immediate shock/pain, they settle down and get to the "work" of splitting up.  So, I could chalk it up to that, if it were the case.  The fact that it was said 4 years later?  I don't think there's any explanation for it at this point other than cruelty.  

[QuinnM]

Quote

I am no legal expert, but would be surprised to hear that Jason could find a way to aid his defense by explaining the reasons he thought it helpful in terms of communicating with Bethenny to call her by her mothers name.

I'm not either but it's pretty clear that calling her old, ugly and irrelevant is vital in communicating about their daughter's daily schedule.

[smores]

"Bryn got a B on her spelling test, she has a dr's appt Tues at 4 to check on her allergies.  Her recital is the 5th of May, and you're ugly old and irrelevant"

Seems legit, right? LOL!

[breezy424]

I think people are confusing what was actually in the emails and what Beth was saying in the custody hearing.  Two different cases.  And if we want to go back to the custody hearing.  Let's also discuss Beth calling him white trash, etc.  And that still was only her side of the story.

This all I got about the emails:

http://pagesix.com/2017/01/31/bethennys-ex-thinks-shes-pure-evil/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4448688/Jason-Hoppy-smiles-judge-pushes-stalking-trial.html

[RedheadZombie]

2 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Okay, I'm game. 

I think Jason calling Bethenny "Bernadette" was a shitty, hateful thing to do, solely intended to suggest to Bethenny that she was as foul a human being as her mother is.  He was using it as an insult, not some kind of plea that he not be shut out of Bryn's life.  He managed to communicate that particular concern clearly enough when he clearly stated that he would not allow Beth to cut him off from Bryn the way her mother cut Beth off from Bobby.  Why go on to call Bethenny "Bernadette" after that?  

The answer: to be a dick.  To hurt Bethenny.  To suggest and confirm her worst fears as a mother - that she was as horrible a parent to Bryn as Bernadette was to her.  

I see no other reason for him to say such a thing.

I will add that it reeks of - you're a shitty mother just like Benadette and Brynn will hate you just you like you did your own mother. 

[WireWrap]

1 minute ago, RedheadZombie said:

I will add that it reeks of - you're a shitty mother just like Benadette and Brynn will hate you just you like you did your own mother. 

What if Bethenny is doing things to Jason/Bryn that Bernadette did to Bethenny/her father? What if she is playing those type of games on them? Does he then have the right to say something to her or is it that only Bethenny can call Jason names?

[smores]

No, that doesn't give him the right.  Then he needs to man up and address them as they come.  He can balls up and say "B, you're doing x, and I believe it's not healthy for Bryn.  This would be better"  Or, he could go to his lawyer and have it addressed in a parenting plan.  He doesn't get to push emotional buttons.  Also, it wouldn't seem like an effective way to make things better, but that's just my opinion.  

I've addressed my opinion on both sides calling names.  I don't think it's appropriate for either one to do it, however, I would be willing to "let it slide" if it happened back around the time of the initial split, as I can see how things are a lot more crazy then.  You'd expect that as the initial shock settles down, that would stop, and 4 years later, it's inexcusable on either side.

[zoeysmom]

http://pagesix.com/2017/01/31/bethennys-ex-thinks-shes-pure-evil/  For those that didn't read it the first time there is no ambivalence in what Jason met be referencing Bernadette,  It clearly states he was not going to let Bethenny do what her mother did to her father.  I think Carole (and Bravo) may be mixing things up.

40 minutes ago, breezy424 said:

I think people are confusing what was actually in the emails and what Beth was saying in the custody hearing.  Two different cases.  And if we want to go back to the custody hearing.  Let's also discuss Beth calling him white trash, etc.  And that still was only her side of the story.

This all I got about the emails:

http://pagesix.com/2017/01/31/bethennys-ex-thinks-shes-pure-evil/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4448688/Jason-Hoppy-smiles-judge-pushes-stalking-trial.html

Whatever these two said to each other before the custody trial, during the marriage isn't really relevant.  It is the contents of the e-mails and text messages.

Last night Lt. Carole said many of the e-mails said nothing.  To me, if they are making a case and they claim 150 of the 165 are inert the case all of a sudden may seem different.

2 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

I am no legal expert, but would be surprised to hear that Jason could find a way to aid his defense by explaining the reasons he thought it helpful in terms of communicating with Bethenny was to call her by her mothers name. There is simply no way that doing so is not a total and complete mind fuck, and says almost more about him than many of the other things. And the list of the other things is long. 

First off there is no evidence the e-mails contained Jason calling her Bernadette.  It may have been old news by Carole.  I think it is going to be hard to lay a foundation as to why Bethenny is so offended by the reference as it will open a door as to some of her more colorful references to others.  Never a good idea to have your star witness pissed off at mom, dad, step dad, ex husband.  And I know Bethenny is not a trial but you have to take your witnesses as they come.

[smores]

But at the end of the day, though, B isn't on trial here.  Jason is, so, assuming he did call B Bernadette, it wouldn't matter what she's called anyone else.  It's not like he can whip out a VCR and show clips of B in the Berkshires flipping out on Luann and then have the judge be like, oh, well, I see your point.  The trial would be about his behavior, his actions, and no matter what she says to other people, that doesn't mean he gets to say what he wants to her.  

[Celia Rubenstein]

52 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Whatever these two said to each other before the custody trial, during the marriage isn't really relevant.  It is the contents of the e-mails and text messages.

Yes, this is true.  Which makes me wonder about the following assertion:

 

53 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

I think it is going to be hard to lay a foundation as to why Bethenny is so offended by the reference as it will open a door as to some of her more colorful references to others.  

If what Bethenny and Jason said to each other before the custody trial and during the marriage isn't relevant, how in the world can the reality tv nonsense Bethenny said on the show to a completely non-related third party be relevant?  To anything? 

Short answer: it isn't.  Bethenny doesn't need to lay any kind of foundation for being offended by Jason  ... the jury will be asked to view things from their own perspective as reasonable people and judge what Jason said to her on that basis.  Nothing she has ever said to anyone else proves a thing in terms of whether it was reasonable for a person to be made afraid by what Jason said.  Her behavior toward other people is completely and utterly irrelevant. 

I know it has been said a million times, but it needs saying again ... Jason is the one on trial.  HIS behavior is what is going to be judged. Not Bethenny's.  The things she has said to other people on the show or anywhere else is not evidence that proves she could not possibly have been upset by what Jason said to her.  

It would be a really ugly day in jurisprudence history if a woman could be judged incapable of being stalked or harassed by an ex no matter what he said or did just because she was nasty to random other people in her life.  

[zoeysmom]

43 minutes ago, smores said:

But at the end of the day, though, B isn't on trial here.  Jason is, so, assuming he did call B Bernadette, it wouldn't matter what she's called anyone else.  It's not like he can whip out a VCR and show clips of B in the Berkshires flipping out on Luann and then have the judge be like, oh, well, I see your point.  The trial would be about his behavior, his actions, and no matter what she says to other people, that doesn't mean he gets to say what he wants to her.  

Correct there are no charges pending against Bethenny. She is the victim/witness.  If she piles it on too thick you can bet on cross exam it will be filled with aired Bethenny melt downs.  There is also such a thing as criminal court and even Family Court aren't going to spend a lot of time telling these two what they can and can't say to each other privately or publicly.  They may both be restrained from communicating with one another and ultimately the child when the child is not in their custody.

[zoeysmom]

1 minute ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Yes, this is true.  Which makes me wonder about the following assertion:

 

If what Bethenny and Jason said to each other before the custody trial and during the marriage isn't relevant, how in the world can the reality tv nonsense Bethenny said on the show to a completely non-related third party be relevant?  To anything? 

Short answer: it isn't.  Bethenny doesn't need to lay any kind of foundation for being offended by Jason  ... the jury will be asked to view things from their own perspective as reasonable people and judge what Jason said to her on that basis.  Nothing she has ever said to anyone else proves a thing in terms of whether it was reasonable for a person to be made afraid by what Jason said.  Her behavior toward other people is completely and utterly irrelevant. 

I know it has been said a million times, but it needs saying again ... Jason is the one on trial.  HIS behavior is what is going to be judged. Not Bethenny's.  The things she has said to other people on the show or anywhere else is not evidence that proves she could not possibly have been upset by what Jason said to her.  

It would be a really ugly day in jurisprudence history if a woman could be judged incapable of being stalked or harassed by an ex no matter what he said or did just because she was nasty to random other people in her life.  

Well if I am a juror, I am sure as hell going to wonder why Bethenny would be offended by being called by her mother's name.  Which apparently may not even be the case.  For it to come into evidence the attorney has to lay the foundation why it would be offensive.  I would go back to the elements of the crime the prosecutor has to prove but it proved to be a huge clusterchuck when I cited the jury instructions. 

You can say it two million times and in a case such as this the victim/witness and their behavior is relevant.  Why the have suffered material and emotional harm is an elemnt.  For example if the e-mails are in response to public statements she made about Jason or alluded to and there is an agreement and order that area is off limits then her words and behavior are entirely relevant and can be used as a defense. 

[breezy424]

55 minutes ago, smores said:

But at the end of the day, though, B isn't on trial here.  Jason is, so, assuming he did call B Bernadette, it wouldn't matter what she's called anyone else.  It's not like he can whip out a VCR and show clips of B in the Berkshires flipping out on Luann and then have the judge be like, oh, well, I see your point.  The trial would be about his behavior, his actions, and no matter what she says to other people, that doesn't mean he gets to say what he wants to her.  

But when did Jason call Beth Beth Bernadette in these emails?  Again, I think people are confusing the custody hearing with the present accusations?

4 hours ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Okay, I'm game. 

I think Jason calling Bethenny "Bernadette" was a shitty, hateful thing to do, solely intended to suggest to Bethenny that she was as foul a human being as her mother is.  He was using it as an insult, not some kind of plea that he not be shut out of Bryn's life.  He managed to communicate that particular concern clearly enough when he clearly stated that he would not allow Beth to cut him off from Bryn the way her mother cut Beth off from Bobby.  Why go on to call Bethenny "Bernadette" after that?  

The answer: to be a dick.  To hurt Bethenny.  To suggest and confirm her worst fears as a mother - that she was as horrible a parent to Bryn as Bernadette was to her.  

I see no other reason for him to say such a thing.

Again, when did Jason call Beth Berndette?  Was it in the emails?  Or was it something Beth declared in the custody trial?