S16.E34: Bob Woodward, Sarah Silverman, Bret Stephens, Katty Kay, and Cornell Belcher

[formerlyfreedom]

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Bob Woodward, Sarah Silverman, Bret Stephens, Katty Kay, Cornell Belcher

 

Airs Friday, November 9.

[TVcritic]

Concerning complacency: Pelosi already said that she wants to work with Republicans. We know how that turned out in the past. Good luck with that...

I hope progressive forces come forward and give that darn administration hell!

[Pete Martell]

1 hour ago, TVcritic said:

Concerning complacency: Pelosi already said that she wants to work with Republicans. We know how that turned out in the past. Good luck with that...

I hope progressive forces come forward and give that darn administration hell!

They have to say that stuff. She knows well enough it isn't likely. 

[Frisson]

I find Sarah Silverman exhausting, and all of her pulling faces when the camera was on her and Bill was very distracting. 

 

The discussion of who should run in 2020 is always fascinating and still too early. I wondered about Bill’s underwhelming reaction to Mitch Landrieu. 

 

Edit: The wrong preposition makes it sound like a different kind of show on HBO. 

Edited November 10, 2018 by Frisson

[HelenBaby]

28 minutes ago, Frisson said:

I find Sarah Silverman exhausting, and all of her pulling faces when the camera was in her and Bill was very distracting. 

 

The discussion of who should run in 2020 is always fascinating and still too early. I wondered about Bill’s underwhelming reaction to Mitch Landrieu. 

Bill probably doesn’t find him compelling as a national figurehead. 

BTW, I was especially frustrated by Bill and Bret Stephens shitting all over the election results. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

12 minutes ago, HelenBaby said:

 I was especially frustrated by Bill and Bret Stephens shitting all over the election results

Well that answers my question about what he’d have to say. And it’s disappointing. I suppose Bill and everyone of his ilk would only consider the midterms a win if the Democrats has won both the House and Senate?  It seems none of the pundits are happy about the results. Wete they upset so many women won? People of color? 

After working two all-nighters, I fell asleep before the show last night.

[amsel]

The only conclusion that I can draw from Bret Stephens' bizarre comments about 2020 is that he wants Democrats to lose so that Trump stays president and Bret Stephens therefore stays relevant as a commentator. John Hickenlooper and Maggie Hassan? Seriously, dude? I like how Cornell countered that when you nominate someone like Obama, you win. 

And yes, in an ideal world, Democrats would win both houses and win every other election, but it's not an ideal world. Stephens and Maher being Debbie Downers dragged the whole show down.

[sugarbaker design]

31 minutes ago, amsel said:

Bret Stephens therefore stays relevant as a commentator. John Hickenlooper

BS mentioning Hickenlooper as the candidate to beat Trump in 2020 was the highlight of the show, well, I mean right behind BM and SS's look of WTF right after he said it!

[GoldenGirl90]

I don’t understand why Bill is downplaying the election results but I’m not surprised.

His dictator checklist during New Rules was spot on though.

[iMonrey]

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BTW, I was especially frustrated by Bill and Bret Stephens shitting all over the election results. 

Yeah look, I get it. I get being an alarmist in the Trump era. But Bill's grasp of the situation seemed superficial and tenuous. The fact is that the Senate seats that were in play were in the deepest red states, and the red states are just getting redder. It was an uphill battle to win House seats because of gerrymandering and voter suppression. Given all that, Democrats did really well. The more important thing is the number of governors seats that were flipped because we have a census coming up in 2020 and those states can fix the gerrymandering and the voter suppression.

Also, Florida just voted to reinstate the voting rights of over one million people when elections are being won or lost there by less that 50,000 votes. That's big too.

As for Bret Stephens, he can go take a long walk off a short pier. He's one of those pundits trying to pass himself off as a "former Republican" but all he does is shit all over the Democrats. Democrats are in no danger of being complacent and that's not why they lost in 2016. They lost because so many of them hated Hillary Clinton and stayed home. One thing Bill is right about is that we need a presidential candidate that will excite progressives and new voters.

(I thought Sarah Silverman actually made a pretty funny joke about nominating Negan, for us Walking Dead fans. Except she ought to know Negan is almost certainly a Republican.)

I'd vote for Van Jones for pres! 

I'd never heard of Cornell Belcher before but I thought he was a great panelist.

Despite his many flaws, I always enjoy Bill's monologues. He may be screwy in a lot of ways but he still delivers great stand-up. I loved his joke that Trump lives in Opposite World because he talks out of his ass but shit comes out of his mouth.

[ganesh]

8 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

They have to say that stuff. She knows well enough it isn't likely

I really don't have a problem with that. She's acting like an adult. That's what's needed right now. 

I thought the discussion was lively and that makes for a good show overall. 

I absolutely love Sarah Silverman and her friendship with Bill. She was totally trying to get him to crack and was so thrilled when he did. 

I'm not convinced Trump gets out of the primary in 2020.

I'm not a fan of the mid show bit, but those ballot measures were funny. 

[scrb]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Well that answers my question about what he’d have to say. And it’s disappointing. I suppose Bill and everyone of his ilk would only consider the midterms a win if the Democrats has won both the House and Senate?  It seems none of the pundits are happy about the results. Wete they upset so many women won? People of color? 

After working two all-nighters, I fell asleep before the show last night.

Even with Caligula in the WH, the Senate map favored Republicans by a huge margin.

In 2020, Republicans have more seats to defend but many are in red states again.  So Democrats not be able to flip more than 3 or 4.  That is why the outcome of FL and AZ counts are very important.

[GHScorpiosRule]

25 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Yeah look, I get it. I get being an alarmist in the Trump era. But Bill's grasp of the situation seemed superficial and tenuous. The fact is that the Senate seats that were in play were in the deepest red states, and the red states are just getting redder. It was an uphill battle to win House seats because of gerrymandering and voter suppression. Given all that, Democrats did really well. The more important thing is the number of governors seats that were flipped because we have a census coming up in 2020 and those states can fix the gerrymandering and the voter suppression.

Also, Florida just voted to reinstate the voting rights of over one million people when elections are being won or lost there by less that 50,000 votes. That's big too.

As for Bret Stephens, he can go take a long walk off a short pier. He's one of those pundits trying to pass himself off as a "former Republican" but all he does is shit all over the Democrats.

Democrats are in no danger of being complacent and that's not why they lost in 2016. They lost because so many of them hated Hillary Clinton and stayed home. One thing Bill is right about is that we need a presidential candidate that will excite progressives and new voters.

<snip>

I'd never heard of Cornell Belcher before but I thought he was a great panelist.

Despite his many flaws, I always enjoy Bill's monologues. He may be screwy in a lot of ways but he still delivers great stand-up. I loved his joke that Trump lives in Opposite World because he talks out of his ass but shit comes out of his mouth.

So much this, but especially the bolded. And all I can add is thank goodness for Katty Kay and Cornell Belcher. 

I really liked Cornell telling the two WHITE MEN that “It was a GREAT NIGHT!” And where did the opinion that the Dems were going to be complacent,  come from?

And I absolutely loved Katty pushing back against Stephens “doom and gloom” rhetoric, by providing examples of how many women won; how the confirmation of Kavanaugh galvanized women to vote.

And I think it was Katty who reminded Stephens that we’re no longer living in the same political climate where Democrats and Republicans will lose every two years or whatever he was bloviating about when he said  the Democrats winning the House doesn’t mean shit.

I wish Woodward has been on the panel and Stephens the top show interview.

Bill did eventually applaud at how the Governors were flipped and how many seats at the state level. A lot were in red states. So, better late than never?

Hey Sarah? “Crap” and “crapper” are actually bleeped out when shows that has them air in syndication-on  cable channels that air R-rated movies bleeper-free. But I got her point.

And maybe it’s because I’m ? deprived, but what was the point he was trying to make in New Rules?

Stephens was just as insufferable during Overtime.

But I want Katty and Cornell to come back more often.

[Mr. R0b0t]

I don't think Bill has delusions that the Dems were going to take the Senate, but I believe he has a very good point when he says there is measured joy in the Dems taking the House because we could truly be sliding into a post-institutions world.  Minorities, women, flipping state houses would be the lead story if these were normal times, but they aren't are they?  Whether we want to admit it or not TRE45ON is testing our institutions daily, even hourly.  Undermining the legitimate press, lying constantly, brainwashing and building his cult.  I feel like I've had countless conversations with sane people who all lament over the loss of friends or family members to the cult of MAGA.  It's alarming and people should be cognizant of how pernicious it all is.  I am already wondering if Mueller were to finally show all the cards and we have video, audio, flight logs, phone records, and confessions about money laundering, election fraud, obstruction, et all whether it would ever get the MAGAts to wake up and stop drinking the orange kool-aid or lead us from a luke-warm to hot civil war in this country between the urban and rural Americans.  Tuesday night was important.  Taking the House remains important, but the most crucial thing we need to do as a country is break the spell of Cult 45.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Mr. R0b0t

[iMonrey]

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I don't think Bill has delusions that the Dems were going to take the Senate, but I believe he has a very good point when he says there is measured joy in the Dems taking the House because we could truly be sliding into a post-institutions world. 

Well, I understand his point in asking "what difference will it make" because even though they have the power to subpoena, there remains very little they can do about anything they find with a Trump-friendly justice department and a Trump-friendly Supreme Court.

However, the contrary point nobody bothered to make is that the House can now stop Mitch McConnell and his ilk from gutting social security, Medicare and Obamacare. So, silver lining. No, we don't really have the power to hold Trump accountable but we can stop the worst of the conservative fiscal agenda. That ain't nothin'.

[Kenz]

6 hours ago, Frisson said:

I find Sarah Silverman exhausting, and all of her pulling faces when the camera was on her and Bill was very distracting

 

Sarah Silverman finds herself so adorable. Her mugging and trying to act so cute annoys me so much that I cringe whenever I see her. If she would cut that out, maybe I could appreciate a few things that she has to say.

As Cornell said, it's too soon to choose a Democrat candidate for 2020. Hickenlooper is a well respected and very bright guy, as is the governor from red state Montana, Steve Bullock. Don't rule out Mitch Landreau either. Just because they are not well known rock stars now is no reason to count them out.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Kenz

[Milburn Stone]

Stephens' advice that the Dems should pick someone who can win in South Carolina seemed wise to me.

There must be somebody who can tick that box while ticking a bunch of the others.

[amsel]

21 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

Stephens' advice that the Dems should pick someone who can win in South Carolina seemed wise to me.

There must be somebody who can tick that box while ticking a bunch of the others.

Yes, but it ain't gonna be John Hickenlooper. 

[SuzieSioux]

I quite enjoyed this episode, it was much more consistently interesting that, say, last week's. Only perhaps slightly spoiled by the doom and gloom stuff, as others have noted. So the Democrats didn't take both houses, but so much interesting stuff came out of the results, especially when it came to the election of the non-Straight White Christian Male candidates, which may be helpful in giving Democrats a clue as to how to move forward for 2020. I always seem to enjoy it when Katty Kay is on the panel so was delighted to see her name. When I first started watching I heard "Cornell", and thought: "Oh no! Not Cornel West, I can't take him with his Brother Bill nonsense tonight", so was very pleasantly surprised to find it was a different Cornell (double L), and he was pretty good! Although he did make that silly statement about women just being naturally better than men, which made me crack up when Bill started sarcastically clapping at him.

The New Rules at the end was so sobering and scary, and very well done.

From Overtime I was fascinated by the stories of reporters from China and Uzbekistan advising American reporters. Though of course the aim of governments to divide groups is not limited only to the press and has been happening since time immemorial. But it really says something now that advice is coming from there.

[scrb]

Imagine if they didn't flip the House, how morose Bill would be.

[littlecatsfeet]

30 minutes ago, scrb said:

Imagine if they didn't flip the House, how morose Bill would be.

He already complained on Sarah Silverman's show this week about the Dems not flipping the Senate "although he gave them a million dollars" (can't let a week go by without mentioning that, apparently), so apparently he thought they owed it to him to do so. I wasn't aware he gave the million specifically to Senate campaigns {{sarcasm}} but maybe that's part of why he had such a bee in his bonnet. He didn't think he got his money's worth.

[Pete Martell]

15 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Well that answers my question about what he’d have to say. And it’s disappointing. I suppose Bill and everyone of his ilk would only consider the midterms a win if the Democrats has won both the House and Senate?  It seems none of the pundits are happy about the results. Wete they upset so many women won? People of color? 

After working two all-nighters, I fell asleep before the show last night.

Bill Maher, in my opinion, has no respect for women, so I imagine the heavy news coverage about women making history for Democrats wouldn't have made him all that thrilled. 

If Democrats had won the Senate and the House Maher still would have been unhappy, probably even more unhappy, because this is how he makes his money. Reminding us how morally and intellectually superior he is to Democrats and to the left. Maher is also of the era of the Beltway pundits, and they are heavily invested in a narrative that Democrats didn't do very well. That makes them look superior (which is their main goal in life) and also means they can keep the storyline going that America is divided between bitter, out of control liberals in blue states and golly gee aw shucks people who just love Trump and can't stop telling the same dozen reporters this as the reporters go to the same red state towns over and over again to gawk. 

Bill Maher's bankbook depends on this status quo. It's been the same sneering, the same posturing, and the same tired jokes for 25 years now. He knows that if the left ever actually found a foothold, he'd be fully irrelevant, rather than just 90% irrelevant, like he is now. 

9 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

Stephens' advice that the Dems should pick someone who can win in South Carolina seemed wise to me.

There must be somebody who can tick that box while ticking a bunch of the others.

Unless they have a flying pig I doubt they will win South Carolina. 

Bret Stephens is about as worthwhile a political voice as Minnie Mouse. 

[amsel]

10 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

 

Unless they have a flying pig I doubt they will win South Carolina. 

Bret Stephens is about as worthwhile a political voice as Minnie Mouse. 

They were not talking about the general election, it's about winning South Carolina in the primary due to the high percentage of African-American voters that vote in the primary. If you can't win over African Americans during the Democratic primary, you can't win the nomination. Just look at Bernie Sanders, who lost in South Carolina and lost throughout the South by huge margins. 

 

As I said above, Bret Stephens might be right about the importance of South Carolina in the primary, but John Hickenlooper won't be the one winning it. 

[Victor the Crab]

Bill appeared pissy about the results because it doesn't fit his narrative that Drumpf and Republicans win because of political correctness running amok. That more women and POC won without having to go into the gutter. Without beating that drum to death, he has next to nothing and will only be left further behind.

Well, he can always get back most of his million dollars he donated by declaring them on his taxes next year, just like he did the last time.

[lovinbob]

Shallow observation: I can't believe how short Bob Woodward is! I noticed that he and Bill were close to the same height, and Bill is wee! I had to look it up, and according to Google Woodward is 5'4". I'd never have guessed. Boy, did he get lucky with Robert Redford playing him! 

[Pete Martell]

9 hours ago, amsel said:

They were not talking about the general election, it's about winning South Carolina in the primary due to the high percentage of African-American voters that vote in the primary. If you can't win over African Americans during the Democratic primary, you can't win the nomination. Just look at Bernie Sanders, who lost in South Carolina and lost throughout the South by huge margins. 

Thanks. My mistake.

I thought I'd read that the AA population of SC was declining relative to other Southern states. I think the time of its national relevance is slowly fading, even if the media won't let go of old crutches.

[Apprentice79]

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 11:44 PM, littlecatsfeet said:

He already complained on Sarah Silverman's show this week about the Dems not flipping the Senate "although he gave them a million dollars" (can't let a week go by without mentioning that, apparently), so apparently he thought they owed it to him to do so. I wasn't aware he gave the million specifically to Senate campaigns {{sarcasm}} but maybe that's part of why he had such a bee in his bonnet. He didn't think he got his money's worth.

The senate was always going to be an uphill battle for the Democrats.  The only way that the Democrats could win is by getting the Democrats out to vote in the red states.  Tester, a Democrat won re-election for his senate seat in Montana because his base came out.  So, it can be done.  It also happened in Alabama.  

 

2 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

I thought I'd read that the AA population of SC was declining relative to other Southern states. I think the time of its national relevance is slowly fading, even if the media won't let go of old crutches.

South Carolina is still important.  I have never understood why nobody ever tries to cultivate the Black voters in Mississippi. The state that has the largest Black population in the union, if they were to organize, they could be a force to be reckon with.. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Apprentice79

[HelenBaby]

16 hours ago, lovinbob said:

Shallow observation: I can't believe how short Bob Woodward is! I noticed that he and Bill were close to the same height, and Bill is wee! I had to look it up, and according to Google Woodward is 5'4". I'd never have guessed. Boy, did he get lucky with Robert Redford playing him! 

Redford isn’t much taller than that. I think he’s about 5’ 7”.

[iMonrey]

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He already complained on Sarah Silverman's show this week about the Dems not flipping the Senate "although he gave them a million dollars" (can't let a week go by without mentioning that, apparently), so apparently he thought they owed it to him to do so. I wasn't aware he gave the million specifically to Senate campaigns {{sarcasm}} but maybe that's part of why he had such a bee in his bonnet. He didn't think he got his money's worth.

You might be onto something. I just wish Bill would have allowed himself one small victory lap - he can go back to doom and gloom next week. There's something to be said for not demoralizing your audience. Why give the impression that even though people turned out to vote and Democrats took back the House it still doesn't matter? That's not how you keep momentum going for the next 2 years. I expect that kind of crap from someone like Bret Stephens - we don't need it coming from the left too. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

You might be onto something. I just wish Bill would have allowed himself one small victory lap - he can go back to doom and gloom next week. There's something to be said for not demoralizing your audience. Why give the impression that even though people turned out to vote and Democrats took back the House it still doesn't matter? That's not how you keep momentum going for the next 2 years. I expect that kind of crap from someone like Bret Stephens - we don't need it coming from the left too. 

Because according to Bill and that asshat Stephens said: “it wasn’t enough.” Stephens said how each and every name on the ticket that had a D should have been ticked. Like not one single Republican should have been chosen. And then compared how the number of voters who did show up was still “lower” than the Republicans who showed up in 2010. Or something.

I just don’t think that’s realistic.

[AuntieDiane6]

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Bill appeared pissy about the results because it doesn't fit his narrative that Drumpf and Republicans win because of political correctness running amok. That more women and POC won without having to go into the gutter. Without beating that drum to death, he has next to nothing and will only be left further behind.

Please.  He can reinvent himself easily enough.  He did each time he changed networks...  

During the last election, he ran a campaign to find the worst Congressional representatives in the country--those who never showed up and skipped votes, those who were under indictment, those who sold their votes to lobbyists.  Every single one won re-election.  In my state, Chris Collins WHO IS UNDER INDICTMENT won re-election (although that may change as absentee votes are counted) in a heavily gerrymandered district. 

Can't blame him for being a bit cynical.  

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's please remember that the topic to discuss is what happens on the show; not past shows, not past elections. Please stay on topic, posts will be removed that go off topic, and repeat offenses may result in further sanctions.

[Marci]

Bob Woodward and Bill started out saying Trump is instilling fear.

They then spent the rest of the segment speaking about how truly bad everything is, and how no one realizes how bad it is, and how terrible things can become.  Sounds like what they were doing is the definition of instilling fear.