S09.E05: What Comes After

[AngelaHunter]

9 hours ago, sarthaz said:

If we continue to waste brain cells giving a shit about what A and B mean, the terrorists win.

I have wasted not a single, solitary thought on that, mainly because I have zero curiousity about any storyline concerning Jadis/Anne but also because I cannot afford to lose any more brain cells. I don't even give a rat's ass about the invisible helicopter.

[Daltrey]

On 11/5/2018 at 10:44 AM, Ramona said:

maybe in the next episode we might see a little Rick Jr. 

It would be better if he was named Carl Jr....then we could all place bets on how long before he became a walker burger.

On 11/5/2018 at 11:50 AM, Nashville said:

the Hat

Between staying in nearly pristine condition and being able to perfectly fit three completely different sized heads, there must be some magic in that old hat....

 

My biggest problem was the Plot Horse that miraculously overcame it's fears after dumping Rick onto the rebar of tragic convenience. .....Meh, so be it. I enjoyed it far more than I expected to, considering Gimple's direct involvement with the story, but I do have mixed feelings about it. Having Andrew Lincoln's leaving the show be so well covered by the press and social media took away much of the emotional weight I should have felt, and would have, had it come as a total shock or surprise. Seeing Michonne and company see Rick "die" did tug a bit at the heart strings, but not as much as it was probably supposed to....Deep down, too, a part of me knew, or at least felt, that he would somehow persevere. I'm cool with it, I kind of like the idea that he's still out there, somewhere. The problem with it, though, is now that he and Anne are apparently with the helicopter folk, how does the show continue that story line without showing them/him? As I recall, no one else has ever seen the helicopter, so will the show just drop that thread and have it picked up by these expanded universe movies? Personally, I'm willing to give it a shot but they are putting an awful lot of faith in an audience that has been in a steady decline for the better part of three seasons now and , based on this thread, is clearly divided on whether or not they are even willing to continue watching the mother ship.

Negan......I feel like the lone fool on the hill who ever enjoyed Negan in all his long-winded, ham-fisted, scenery chewing glory. I say fool because while I enjoyed his dialogue and how JDM relished in delivering every ridiculous word, the character has had zero development from that first swing of Lucille. Sure, we know that was his wife's name and that she died but we know nothing of their lives or the circumstances that drove him to become this maniacal dictator. I knew that Maggie wouldn't end up killing him, that something would make her change her mind, that's like Tropes 101. Couple that with "his living mental anguish is a far worse punishment than death" and it becomes hindsight 20/20 obvious. What I can't be sure of is if he played her with reverse psychology or if his anguish is genuine. If he played her, why not try to escape once she pulled him out of the cell, what's the advantage of going back in? Conversely, How do we believe he's that broken and distraught over his dead wife when we've been given no context for what their life was like, other than him regretting he was a bad husband? Anything that alluded to it was superficially glossed over at best. I have no issue with villains being given a redemption arc, but at least give the audience a reason to possibly care.

The new people and the time jump has me most conflicted of all. On the one hand, it gives the show a much needed new direction and potential shot of adrenaline but it expects us to believe or accept that nothing of any significance happened in those six years? I suppose they could go the flashback route for important plot points or character development (preferably not) or more likely rely on boring exposition, but most likely these apparent movie one-offs and side stories will cover much of that. Again, they are putting a lot of faith in a fractured and discontent fan base. Initially I was not happy to see the new people as on more than one occasion I've said they need to thin the herd and there* are already people introduced that have yet to be developed. Also, Dan Fogler (Luke) works in small doses at best, mostly he's annoying AF. If he's anything like most characters he's played, he needs to die a quick, irrelevant Zach McGowan-esque death, ASAP. It took a split second to realize the little girl was Judith (it was late, I was tired, don't judge!) and my first thought was "WHY?!! Fuck you Gimple, what was the point of bringing FTWD up to speed with TWD and the talk of a crossover if you're just going to time jump again?! Hoodwinks And Shenanigans?! This just screws that!" - I guess Morgan WAS the crossover - That said, I immediately bought into Judith as a wise beyond her years, kick ass kid and I started to get a bit excited; they're clearly setting her up to be the character Carl should've been and I think If they handle it right, it could be something of a tribute to Carl, and by extension Chandler Riggs, rather than a disservice to him and the work he did. For the most part, I think Angela Kang has done a great job so far as the new show-runner; "What Comes Next" was Gimple's story, by and large, so I can't fault her for any of it's short comings. Ultimately, I'm looking forward to seeing where she takes it, but with Scott M Gimple still in the position of dimwitted Supreme Overseer, I do so with trepidation.

Edited November 7, 2018 by Daltrey
Spelling correction

[Macbeth]

Bravo Daltrey

Edited November 7, 2018 by Macbeth

[Daltrey]

29 minutes ago, Macbeth said:

Bravo Daltrey

Awe, shucks......'twern't nuthin'.

*Red-faced, bows head and kicks at the dirt* ;)

[Kdawg82]

13 hours ago, EllipticalAddicted said:

During the Maggie and Negan scene, I was actually hoping that Negan would kill Maggie.   That's how much I hate her character

Yes, yes...but instead it only proved to give her more proverbial "balls" than surviving Glenn's death in front of face , while preggo OR hanging Gregory OR her dad's decapitation. 

[OoohMaggie]

12 hours ago, Colorado David said:

ah man, i would've killed to see rick in a flashback memory to he and Glenn first meeting, with that baseball cap he wore and Glenn saving Rick. i would've bawled at that, writers take note

One of his ‘wake up’ cries should definitely have been 

“hey you..................dumbass..................yeah you in the tank”

its amazing how Glenn had him worked out without even meeting the guy lol

Edited November 7, 2018 by OoohMaggie

[Johnny Dollar]

I’ve been hanging out a lot lately with my three year old granddaughter and I’ve got the scoop everyone’s been waiting for:

”A” = Apple

”B” = Ball

[Nashville]

Quote

Between staying in nearly pristine condition and being able to perfectly fit three completely different sized heads, there must be some magic in that old hat....

So now Rick is really Frosty the Snowman in disguise?  ;)

 

Quote

My biggest problem was the Plot Horse that miraculously overcame it's fears after dumping Rick onto the rebar of tragic convenience.

Errr... actually, the horse didn’t overcome anything; rather, it was overcome.  When Rick is doing his best rebar impersonation of a bug trying to escape an entomologist’s collection, Silver is tangled up in magic barbed wire - check out all the closeups of Silver’s hooves while Rick is extricating himself.  I say “magic” barbed wire, of course, because it magically disappears as soon as Rick remounts Silver.

[Pixiebomb]

Best part of the episode hands down was when Shane asked how his daughter was.  

[Kdawg82]

22 minutes ago, Pixiebomb said:

Best part of the episode hands down was when Shane asked how his daughter was.  

Rick: "you're an asshole." 

Shane: "I'm *the* asshole." 

Hah! Classic!

[iMonrey]

Quote

Having Andrew Lincoln's leaving the show be so well covered by the press and social media took away much of the emotional weight I should have felt, and would have, had it come as a total shock or surprise.

It's the same way with the time jump and "my name is Judith Grimes." The show's biggest mistake was killing off Carl. With Andrew Lincoln's departure, this would have been the perfect opportunity for a time jump, and a recast of Carl with an older actor. Think how much more effective it would have been seeing some young guy pick up that hat and introduce himself as Carl Grimes. Judith? She's been little more than a prop for the past eight years. Plus, it's widely believed that she's not even Rick's kid. Who really cares about her that much? 

[mandolin]

7 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I enjoyed this episode very much,  I have nothing to bitch about. 

That said, when Maggie talks she has one heck of an under bite that doesn't look the least bit natural.  I don't know if she has to do that to speak Klingon with a "southern" accent or not.

I was "spoiled" in last week's episode thread, so I am now wary to read episode threads.  I will just comment briefly and move on.  I am not a happy camper when a spoiler pops up out of nowhere.

YES to Maggie’s weird mouth and horrible-beyond-belief-and-getting-worse-every-day accent. 

[Colorado David]

well Lauren Cohen is british, so mayyyyybe we can cut her some slack on her 'southern' accent. (growing up in texas, oooooh yeah I do hear how bad it is. a couple of times she has said something and I had no idea what words she said.) 

Funny how older Judith acted almost exactly like Coral, with the gun and the hat and all. I'm surprised she didn't spit chewin tobacky.

[FierceCritter]

On 11/5/2018 at 9:26 AM, catrox14 said:

Negan developed the heaviest plot armor I've ever seen which also apparently not only let the bullets ricochet,  but also redirect them before they even hit him.

GOLD.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, Colorado David said:

well Lauren Cohen is british, so mayyyyybe we can cut her some slack on her 'southern' accent. (growing up in texas, oooooh yeah I do hear how bad it is. a couple of times she has said something and I had no idea what words she said.) 

I would have no problem with her Elly Mae Clampett accent, were it not for the fact that neither her father nor her sister had the same accent. How would she start speaking that way when no one else in her household did so?

[mandolin]

1 hour ago, Colorado David said:

well Lauren Cohen is british, so mayyyyybe we can cut her some slack on her 'southern' accent. (growing up in texas, oooooh yeah I do hear how bad it is. a couple of times she has said something and I had no idea what words she said.) 

Funny how older Judith acted almost exactly like Coral, with the gun and the hat and all. I'm surprised she didn't spit chewin tobacky.

So is Andrew Lincoln, and his is miles above hers! I've lived in Georgia my whole life, and I can't understand some things she says either.  And I think it's worse than when she came on the show.

ETA: yes, AngelaHunter! Totally agree. 

Edited November 8, 2018 by mandolin

[AngelaHunter]

21 hours ago, Daltrey said:

Between staying in nearly pristine condition and being able to perfectly fit three completely different sized heads, there must be some magic in that old hat....

You have a problem with the "One size fits all" hat?

[Iguessnot]

1 hour ago, Colorado David said:

well Lauren Cohen is british, so mayyyyybe we can cut her some slack on her 'southern' accent. (growing up in texas, oooooh yeah I do hear how bad it is. a couple of times she has said something and I had no idea what words she said.) 

Funny how older Judith acted almost exactly like Coral, with the gun and the hat and all. I'm surprised she didn't spit chewin tobacky.

It's funny we keep repeating that, but it wasn't until I read another forum last week that I learned she was actually born in New Jersey and moved to England when she was 13. Wiki does say her mother was English. 

Whatever the case she sounds awkward whether on the show or Talking Dead.

[Daltrey]

10 hours ago, Nashville said:

So now Rick is really Frosty the Snowman in disguise?  ;)

 

Errr... actually, the horse didn’t overcome anything; rather, it was overcome.  When Rick is doing his best rebar impersonation of a bug trying to escape an entomologist’s collection, Silver is tangled up in magic barbed wire - check out all the closeups of Silver’s hooves while Rick is extricating himself.  I say “magic” barbed wire, of course, because it magically disappears as soon as Rick remounts Silver.

Haha, glad somebody got that little reference. ;)

 

Hmmm, interesting....I'll have to take another look at that. I still think it's unbelievable that Silver (love that, BTW!) didn't run off as soon as he threw Rick.

27 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

You have a problem with the "One size fits all" hat?

LOL, no, I actually kind of like that it's become something of an heirloom. I just think it's funny that it's still in pretty decent shape and somehow manages to perfectly fit whomever happens to be currently donning it. :)

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, Daltrey said:

I just think it's funny that it's still in pretty decent shape and somehow manages to perfectly fit whomever happens to be currently donning it. :)

No reason a hat worn by an adult man wouldn't fit Judith and Carl, two 10-year olds. It grows and shrinks according to need and head size.

Edited November 8, 2018 by AngelaHunter

[Daltrey]

1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

No reason a hat worn by an adult man wouldn't fit Judith and Carl, two 10-year olds. It grows and shrinks according to need and head size.

LOL! Yes, apparently.

[Smad]

On 5.11.2018 at 3:26 PM, catrox14 said:

Rick regained his aim a few episodes back if I remember correctly. And TBF, Rick never had problems with his aim until Negan developed the heaviest plot armor I've ever seen which also apparently not only let the bullets ricochet,  but also redirect them before they even hit him.

Jon Snow would like a word with you.

[OoohMaggie]

13 hours ago, mandolin said:

And I think it's worse than when she came on the show.

I do have to admit that I think she has got worse recently, when she was confronting Michonne over Negan she sounded really strange. She can’t be blamed for having an accent influenced by two countries, but I’m surprised the voice coach hasn’t been able to make more of a difference.

[OoohMaggie]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I don't think he is suffering.  I think he is just playing mind games and biding his time until the protagonists let their guards down

If the time warp was six years, it means he’s been banged up for seven and a half, I reckon he’d be suffering by now.

If he was waiting for an opportunity, a golden one at that, he could have taken Maggie out quite easily and taken her gun.

Edited November 8, 2018 by OoohMaggie

[amazinglybored]

I stopped watching years ago and spent a few weekends catching up for Rick’s death. Only for him not to die and the show to introduce a new child actor. A hyper competent child character saving adults and presumably precocious. To think I thought young Carl would be the worst...

 

Naturally, I fell into re-watching the earlier seasons. Rick mentioned padding the hat to fit Carl when he gave it to him. I guess a second of thought went into the magic hat back in the day.

[Kdawg82]

17 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

It's funny we keep repeating that, but it wasn't until I read another forum last week that I learned she was actually born in New Jersey and moved to England when she was 13.

Heyyy! Maybe it's da newh jerzeee accent cohmin ahhwt. I mean nevah know where in jerzee she's frummh but sounds like she traded her cawfee for high tea.

In seriousness I agree with previous poster, it's all good- but the rest of the family should've had the same accent- Herschel and Beth . 

....and I'm from NJ?

[iMonrey]

Quote

I would have no problem with her Elly Mae Clampett accent, were it not for the fact that neither her father nor her sister had the same accent. How would she start speaking that way when no one else in her household did so?

LOL. I never had a problem with her accent but you make a good point and Hershel and Beth. It's amusing to think what we Americans sound like to the Brits. We tend to think there is one basic British accent but there are just as many British accents as there are American accents. I guess Lauren Cohen likewise thinks there's just one American accent and they all sound like . . . well, Elly Mae Clampett. 

[FierceCritter]

On 11/6/2018 at 4:10 PM, Nashville said:

In other words - a Southern woman.  ;>

Oh, I almost forgot: kudos to Silver, Rick’s horse - and if that’s not the horse’s name, then by god it oughta be.  Silver stuck around through thick and thin, even when there was no good reason to - and when the stupid got too dense to be tolerated, he blew that popsicle stand like a true survivor.  

Congratulations, Silver - in one episode you demonstrated a better combination of loyalty and good sense than any other cast member in the last two years.  ;)

He'd better be Judith's steed. (Speaking as someone who is going to give future episodes a shot.)

[OoohMaggie]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

We tend to think there is one basic British accent but there are just as many British accents as there are American accents

When you say ‘British’, do you mean English, or are you including the Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish? We cant tell the difference between a mild US and  a mild Canadian accent, but your correct each country of the United Kingdom has many, many regional variations.

As far as US accents go, we can tell the strongest ones apart, the New York, Southern states,Californian, but we couldn’t get very specific, pretty much the same as you guys might recognise a cockney or a Liverpudlian but not much else.

[FierceCritter]

On 11/7/2018 at 2:15 PM, iMonrey said:

 this would have been the perfect opportunity for a time jump, and a recast of Carl with an older actor. Think how much more effective it would have been seeing some young guy pick up that hat and introduce himself as Carl Grimes. 

SO MUCH THIS. ^^^

Carl was my favorite character. I know Chandler wasn't the greatest actor, and I'm not much of a critic. So I did like him in the role. But damnit, what you just described would have been EPICALLY GREAT.

[FierceCritter]

5 hours ago, amazinglybored said:

Rick mentioned padding the hat to fit Carl when he gave it to him. I guess a second of thought went into the magic hat back in the day.

Learned from my dad. Inside where the crown meets the brim is a sweatband, usually leather on a Stetson. You can put folded cloth between the inside of the crown and the sweatband to make it fit a smaller head size. 

Also, I have glued a rolled-up bandanna inside a straw hat that was too big to both make it fit well and act as a built-in sweatband.

[Daltrey]

3 hours ago, FierceCritter said:

You can put folded cloth between the inside of the crown and the sweatband to make it fit a smaller head size.

True, but I would think that's an awful lot of folded cloth to be stuffing between crown and band ....I suppose it could work, though. I'm amused that my magic hat wisecrack has garnered so much discussion, I didn't really expect that, lol.

[Nashville]

1 hour ago, Daltrey said:

True, but I would think that's an awful lot of folded cloth to be stuffing between crown and band ....I suppose it could work, though. I'm amused that my magic hat wisecrack has garnered so much discussion, I didn't really expect that, lol.

Or, you can just stuff some newspaper up inside the crown to fit.  You get some extra insulation that way, too.  ;)

Edited November 9, 2018 by Nashville

[Daltrey]

37 minutes ago, Nashville said:

Or, you can just stuff some newspaper up inside the crown to fit.  You get some extra insulation that way, too.  ;)

 

Good point, lol!.....Of course, they'd need to find newspaper almost the same condition as the hat, but still.... ;)

Edited November 9, 2018 by Daltrey

[Johnny Dollar]

Rick had one of those “one-size-fits-all” hats. Literally. 

[AngelaHunter]

2 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

Rick had one of those “one-size-fits-all” hats. Literally. 

Reminds me of the old "Big Valley" and Audra's "one-size-fits-all"dresses. No matter what desperate woman needing a dress turned up - be she shorter, taller, thinner or larger than Audra, her dresses fit them.

21 hours ago, amazinglybored said:

A hyper competent child character saving adults and presumably precocious. To think I thought young Carl would be the worst...

Is she going to be like those annoying know-it-all brats on sit-coms, making fools of the adults and cracking one-liners like Rodney Dangerfield doing standup? Ugh. I'll pass on that, and on the gang of millennials, who would have already long since died off for want of Facebook, Twitter and the ability to take endless selfies.

[CletusMusashi]

On 11/6/2018 at 7:35 PM, Colorado David said:

I know!!! so much gold there, using glenn, coral, and lori....and they miss it completely. unless those actors had non-flashback clauses, THIS WAS DUMB. could've totally been a tissue episode front to back, but nah, focusing on the more distant relationships? had they done glenn, carl, and lori, i'd soooo be singing praises

Yeah, well, speaking of singing... I don't think Rick did so bad.

I mean, he could have ended up with Bob, Beth, and The Governor.

[AngelaHunter]

On 11/5/2018 at 10:37 AM, cursethedarkness said:

Negan, the Master Manipulator, won again. He knew Maggie hated him enough to wish him as much pain as she suffered, so he concocted that tearful "I want to die" malarkey, knowing she would give him the exact opposite of anything he wanted.

Negan is really not that bright. He doesn't need to be master of anything to pull the wool over the eyes of people who have been dumbed down to imbecilic levels.

[OoohMaggie]

11 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Negan is really not that bright. He doesn't need to be master of anything to pull the wool over the eyes of people who have been dumbed down to imbecilic levels.

Was he bluffing? I don’t think he was, purely for the reason that I believe the show want to redeem his sorry ass, the dream clip with him  in the garden is what I think they want, to be an accepted member of the communities. With the main opponent to that now off the show it gives it the green light. Plus ‘little Saint’ Judith will I’m sure have something to do with it.

Edited November 10, 2018 by OoohMaggie

[Daltrey]

1 hour ago, OoohMaggie said:

the show want to redeem his sorry ass, the dream clip with him  in the garden is what I think they want

I've said before that I may be the only one that that actually enjoyed Negan in all his ridiculous, mustache twirling glory but the only way this would at all be remotely acceptable is if they show us who he was before the virus took everything from him and he chose to honor his precious, wonderful wife in the form of a Louisville Slugger wearing a barb wire cocktail dress.

[chrissybk]

On 11/5/2018 at 5:48 PM, heisenberg said:

I wonder if it could be simplier than that, like: 

A = Volunteer 

B = Not volunteer

Father peepants could have been an "A",  he said no to Jadis and than he was a "B" ?

I was thinking friend or foe. When Jadis and Father Peepants were getting all buddy buddy, she thought he would come with her. When he said no, she said "I thought you were a B." So, by declining to go with her, he is now an A. When she told the helicopter people about Rick, she said he was a B and talked about saving a friend. 

[OoohMaggie]

7 hours ago, Daltrey said:

if they show us who he was before the virus took everything from him

A Negan back story, not a popular choice i hazard a guess! but i see your point, if we could see that he was once a different person then his redemption could be believable, possibly. Seeing how he dethroned Simon and formed The Saviours would be interesting.

[Kdawg82]

43 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

A Negan back story, not a popular choice i hazard a guess! but i see your point, if we could see that he was once a different person then his redemption could be believable, possibly. Seeing how he dethroned Simon and formed The Saviours would be interesting.

Episode opens to a clean shaven Negan except for a full mustache. He sports a track suit and a whistle. He's disciplining some pencil necked punk ass millennials doing laps or something in his gym class. Soon answers a call from his mistress about sex of course. Then he goes home to wife Lucille & is nasty then dips out on her. I could go on but won't.  I enjoy glimpses/references to life before the ZA. Like Rick saying how Lori made Sunday pancakes that were horrible (natch!) And Alicia Witt's "saviors" character when she captured Maggie and Carol talking about how Carol comes across as someone she would've sent an inspirational cat e-mail to, from the office. I like reminders of the world before and how they were ordinary people like us before becoming what they became.

[AngelaHunter]

1 hour ago, Kdawg82 said:

I enjoy glimpses/references to life before the ZA.

I agree, but we get nearly none of that. You just know that people in a grim present filled with deprivation and loss and who face an unknown future would spend more time talking about things from their pasts, reminiscing about what they miss and how things were. I was wishing someone would just saying something like, "Gee, I miss all-dressed pizzas" or "I remember a pretty dress I had" or whatever, but we never really got any of that.

As for Negan, I have no interest in anything about him - not his past, present or future.

Edited November 10, 2018 by AngelaHunter

[Daltrey]

On 11/10/2018 at 12:57 PM, OoohMaggie said:

A Negan back story, not a popular choice i hazard a guess! but i see your point, if we could see that he was once a different person then his redemption could be believable, possibly. Seeing how he dethroned Simon and formed The Saviours would be interesting.

Oh, not a popular choice at all, guaranteed, lol, because it's too late for it now. It should have been done somewhere in season seven or early season eight to have any impact or make any sense. Gimple and friends gimped it up by only ever presenting a one dimensional cartoon villain instead of a real, flawed human being with sociopathic tendencies trying to fill a void created by everything he lost. Having him cry about it now....I guess because all that quiet time in the cell allowed him to reflect(?)....just came off as almost comical to me, not believable in the least, which is why I hope He was playing her. Unfortunately, I fear it's more likely that Angela* Kang is just trying to do the best she can with the dumpster fire she inherited.

 

Seeing how Negan dethroned Simon and rose to power WOULD be interesting but again it should have been a part of his initial arc. Far better than the "all out war" of plot contrivance and stupidity that was served up. To go back and explore it now would be an exercise in futility and serve no real purpose other than to completely halt any improvement progress the show may have made. Better to accept what has passed and move ever forward.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Daltrey
Spelling correction

[Nashville]

5 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

A Negan back story, not a popular choice i hazard a guess! but i see your point, if we could see that he was once a different person then his redemption could be believable, possibly. Seeing how he dethroned Simon and formed The Saviours would be interesting.

Ummm, I don’t think Simon was ever on the “throne” per se; Simon was just a wetwork tool for the guy who occupied that exalted Sanctuary seat prior to Negan’s takeover.

[OoohMaggie]

6 hours ago, Nashville said:

Ummm, I don’t think Simon was ever on the “throne” per se; Simon was just a wetwork tool for the guy who occupied that exalted Sanctuary seat prior to Negan’s takeover.

Not that I ever saw it, but I thought it was revealed on TD that he was in charge before Smiley arrived, obviously just gossip.

[Nashville]

55 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

Not that I ever saw it, but I thought it was revealed on TD that he was in charge before Smiley arrived, obviously just gossip.

It was actually referenced not on TTD but in TWD itself, last season.  There was some discussion about it on another thread right around the time of Ep3, when it was revealed the Oceanside folk were responsible for the wave of Savior “disappearances”:

 

On 10/22/2018 at 7:17 PM, Nashville said:

Found it - S8Ep15, “Worth”:

Negan (to Simon): You know, I remember when I took this place - when YOU helped me take this place.  Wasn’t sure I wanted to keep you on board.  I mean, before me, before there was a system in place - what you did, killing all those men, those boys in that settlement so long ago, a lot of people would think that is some psychotic shit.  Like that is the work of a demented, broken, goddamn ghoul.  Like that’s not someone that you want to work with, let alone stand next to.  So I figured I’d keep my eye on you.  And I did.  And everything seemed to work out - right up until this point.

Simon was in charge of the Savior task force which decimated the Oceanside male population so long ago, no doubt, but not the Saviors overall; quite the contrary, Simon helped Negan depose whoever was in charge.

[Daltrey]

16 minutes ago, Nashville said:

On 10/22/2018 at 5:17 PM, Nashville said:

Found it - S8Ep15, “Worth”:

Negan (to Simon): You know, I remember when I took this place - when YOU helped me take this place.  Wasn’t sure I wanted to keep you on board.  I mean, before me, before there was a system in place - what you did, killing all those men, those boys in that settlement so long ago, a lot of people would think that is some psychotic shit.  Like that is the work of a demented, broken, goddamn ghoul.  Like that’s not someone that you want to work with, let alone stand next to.  So I figured I’d keep my eye on you.  And I did.  And everything seemed to work out - right up until this point.

 

Simon was in charge of the Savior task force which decimated the Oceanside male population so long ago, no doubt, but not the Saviors overall; quite the contrary, Simon helped Negan depose whoever was in charge.

It could have been so much better if we'd seen a lot of that instead of much of the nonsense we got followed by this little bit of exposition...... My two cents, anyway.

[OoohMaggie]

2 hours ago, Nashville said:

Simon was in charge of the Savior task force which decimated the Oceanside male population so long ago, no doubt, but not the Saviors overall; quite the contrary, Simon helped Negan depose whoever was in charge.

I remember the scene now, Simon had need of his special pants.

2 hours ago, Daltrey said:

It could have been so much better if we'd seen a lot of that instead of much of the nonsense we got followed by this little bit of exposition...... My two cents, anyway.

That period between ‘civilised’ and ‘Lucille’would be interesting.