S14.E04: Mint Condition

[raven]

Quote

Dean continues to struggle. Meanwhile, Sam must think fast when action figures come to life, and our heroes find themselves living in a real-life horror movie.

Airdate 2018.11.01

[Katy M]

I don't know if I'm allowed to do this, but if not a mod can delete.

 

I loved this episode.  I love that Hell Hazers is still a thing. Great call back to Hollywood BAbylon.  I love when one of them is just having fun with something. It's usually Dean.  He finds such joy in the oddest things.  But, a happy Dean is my kind of Dean.
I also loved how real life was mirroring th emovie. I also loved that the ghost was pushing the button to say the phrases.  I liked Dean's new friend, don't remember his name.  For some reason he reminded me of the soulless geek in Thin Lizzie. And,Dean was getting strangled instead of Sam.  Nice change up.

Nitpicks: Last scene: They would not have just left that there even though they melted the key chain. They would have burned the suit, too.  And that was a pretty lame reason to hate Halloween for 30 years. 

[raven]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't know if I'm allowed to do this, but if not a mod can delete.

It's not against the rules; anyone can create the episode topic :)

[Mulva]

Great episode!  Loved Sam's macguyvering a solution to get out of the shop.

[MysteryGuest]

Wasn't home to watch live tonight.  This is turning into a regular thing.  Looking forward to watching tomorrow.  Sounds like plenty of Sam and Dean, which works for me.

[Lady Calypso]

I'll admit; at first, I didn't really like the episode and found my attention wandering. But honestly, as I thought about it and tuned in to the episode more, I realize that this DID feel like an early season episode of Supernatural. Not without its flaws, of course, but I DO think it benefited from having the episode as a strict A plot with the case of the week. 

Even though I didn't love the case itself, I like it going back to basics, a good old ghost hunting case. 

As much as I enjoy the old season Supernatural feel....the whole Sam hates Halloween thing was a little TOO old school. A secret like that would work in season 1 or even 2, not in season 14 where Sam and Dean are way too old for this discussion to not have happened before. I wish the secret had been about him hating Halloween in the last....five years, maybe as a callback to a previous season, not a secret back when they were kids. 

I did enjoy the episode, although now I will have to rewatch this weekend to appreciate it more. I did enjoy Sam's MacGyvering in the comic shop. I enjoyed Dean's love for horror films and his genuine joy. I loved Sam's little smile at the beginning when he convinced Dean to help out with the case, though I also get why Dean initially wasn't interested in working a case. 

A lot of moments I missed because I wasn't sure about the episode. But a case of the week + just Sam and Dean = a pretty damn good episode.

[BoxManLocke]

I was almost going to do the thread myself since it's the first time in ages I'm going to leave a positive comment. Yay.

 

Anyway, that was fun ! And it was just what the episode was trying to be.

 

Just Sam and Dean, a simple and easy to follow story, a couple of cool guest-stars, some nice fight scenes and a heartwarming last scene in the impala (best one in a very long time). Sprinkle some great character moments for each bro, a little bit of banter, and there's the winning formula.

 

That's just what this show is all about, and it's so depressing that we only get those episodes a couple of times per season now when they don't know what else to do.

 

Loved seeing Dean having fun, making friends, and Sam being smart and finally telling his Halloween story.

 

My only slight gripe is that I wish they'd find more clever ways to get rid of the spirit. It's always "burn the object at the very last second when Dean/Sam is about to get killed".

 

I too would've stayed cooped up in my room if my house was full of boring-ass people I didn't give a crap about btw.

 

Not looking forward to coming back to the usual bloat next week, but man it feels great to leave an episode with a smile instead of a facepalm. I had almost forgotten that feeling.

Edited November 2, 2018 by BoxManLocke

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

I wish the secret had been about him hating Halloween in the last....five years, maybe as a callback to a previous season, not a secret back when they were kids. 

I don't mind that it was a secret from when they were kids, because he did say in the very first episode "You know how I feel about Halloween" to Jess.  I just wish it hadn't been such a lame secret.  That's embarrassing to be sure.  But, not years worth of embarrassing, when he never saw any of those kids after a few more weeks at most.

[gonzosgirrl]

I can see why Jensen enjoyed filming it.

Otherwise,  yeah. I got nothing. 

[trudysmom]

I really liked it, it could go down as a favorite for me.  Like Katy said, a happy Dean is my kind of Dean, too.  The conversation at the end, Sam finally said what I wanted to hear, that no one blames Dean.  About time.  I know in the pilot, Sam told Jess "You know how I feel about Halloween".  Then it was what, a couple of days later she died?  I always thought after that he associated it with her death.  

I also found it sloppy that they left the mannequin in the morgue. I sort of thought Dean might put it in the Impala and take it home!  

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, trudysmom said:

I also found it sloppy that they left the mannequin in the morgue. I sort of thought Dean might put it in the Impala and take it home!  

I was expecting it to jump up and kill the security guards.

I thought of two more nitpicks, even though I really did love this episode.  I think Dean should have told the other guy to get out of there instead of sitting in a salt circle.  Because as far as he knew the ghost was just after Stuart.  And, I actually yelled at him to leave the salt, because those circles never stay put.  I'm also not sure why the ghost chased that guy in the first place.  He may have said that he had to go through him, but then he up and ran in the opposite direction (not that I'm blaming him, I would have done the same).

[ILoveReading]

This ep wasn't too bad right up until the last scene.  They couldn't make Sam and Dean equals.  Nope,Dean's under Sam's command now.  I hated Dean calling Sam chief.  He's not Deans' boss.

I'll give credit to Perez for the reason why Dean loves Hatchet Man and horror movies.  The bad guy always loses.  Credit where its due.  The whole Dean loves Hactchet Man wasn't as bad as I thought. 

Dean bonding with the kid.  I've missed that. 

Dean geeking out and finding joy in the little things is always one of my favorite flavors of Dean. 

Dean using whatever he can to fight is another one.

Plus, Dean eating a lollipop was oddly enduring.

It was nice for someone to finally tell Dean it wasn't his fault, but it would be nice if the show acknowledged that Dean also killed Lucifer instead of just saying Dean did it for Sam and Jack.  I don't care if Dean believed it.  I as a viewer needed to hear it.

Since Dean is a big fan of hatchet man, I would think he would notice that key chain since the original didn't carry it, I thought Dean would have noticed it.  But i guess Sam needed to save the day.  I called Dean needing to be saved by the random dude.

Sam's reason for hating halloween was lame.

I still didn't like the sneak peek scene were Dean doesn't know what Fortnite is or the Sam blowing up the door for reasons that belong in bitch/jerk

But the end scene still brought the episode down so much

Edited November 2, 2018 by ILoveReading

[Katy M]

3 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I hated Dean calling Sam chief.

I thought he said it jokingly/mockingly .  I don't think Dean thinks of Sam as his boss.  It's always been more the other way around.

 

5 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I thought Dean would have noticed it. But i guess Sam needed to save the day.  I called Dean needing to be saved by the random dude.

He was kind of busy at the time. Plus, Sam said that he locked them in, so he would have known what the keys were for, but not necessarily that they were what he was tied to. And, SAm didn't figure that out.  Samantha did.

[Lady Calypso]

7 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This ep wasn't too bad right up until the last scene.  They couldn't make Sam and Dean equals.  Nope,Dean's under Sam's command now.  I hated Dean calling Sam chief.  He's not Deans' boss.

I just assumed Dean was being sarcastic about it. This episode proved that the boys need to work together in order to get shit done and Sam's proven that he needs Dean and he's happiest working alongside Dean. Sam still seems unhappy to be called Chief in general and doesn't seem to love leading all those random people in the bunker. He's been going through the motions up until Dean's return and has turned to his brother since. That's why I'll just ignore everyone in the bunker who aren't main characters. In my mind, they could all drop dead and nothing would change for me. Sam and Dean are both at the heart of the show and although the days of these types of episodes are far and few in between, I'll enjoy whatever I can get when I can get it. 

[ILoveReading]

4 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

ust assumed Dean was being sarcastic about it.

I hope so.  We'll see what the following weeks bring.  (not a spoiler just an observation)

5 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Sam still seems unhappy to be called Chief in general and doesn't seem to love leading all those random people in the bunker. He's been going through the motions up until Dean's return and has turned to his brother since.

Sam seems to like it.  That's the way Jared plays it..  At least to me

[BoxManLocke]

The "chief" comment also felt like big bro teasing to me, and I think Sam was happy to hear it because he missed Dean's jokes.

 

Also the chief thing is one of the few character bits they've following through in multiple episodes, so that's nice. It's good to see the writers can at least remember a couple of things in the mess of half-assed storylines that is this season.

[Katy M]

Am I the only who can't help but think of Criss Angel Is a Douche Bag when someone calls Sam Chief?

[gonzosgirrl]

I will say I was more than pleasantly surprised that Perez resisted the urge to make Dean look foolish in his horror-fan geekdom. His reasoning behind it was surprisingly insightful and sensitive. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[Myrelle]

Just now, gonzosgirrl said:

I can see why Jensen enjoyed filming it.

Otherwise,  yeah. I got nothing. 

Too much left unaddressed from the Michael possession(and how can we ever trust them to return to it) for me to truly enjoy this one, but yes, I also can see why JA enjoyed filming it. 

They tried to go back to old school and it might have worked if we didn't know that Jack, Nick, Mary, the Wayward Sues, and Sam's AU hunters were going to be back, and this while we got so little of Michael!Dean and now, Dean is there for Sam(Chief, said sarcastically by Dean, but gag me, anyway-because you just know that the Sammy, you're such an awesome leader speech will be coming down the pipe from Dean any episode now) and whatever he needs from him(again and some more) with no fall out for Dean other than his one line statement of "I'm never going to get over it."

Fuck you, writers, for all that you refused to do with that storyline. 

And this attempt at recapturing the old days of this show fell flat for this fan mainly because of that.

I DO hope that they will get rid of the AU hunters. I hate even the idea of them because the writers used them to allow Sam to usurp Dean's leadership role.

So fuck you, writers, for that, too.

That said, I thought Jensen  was magnificent in this one. 

I love that Dean still loves the hunt. I loved his explanation for why he loved watching horror movies-because he knew that the baddie would always lose. Jensen brought such a bittersweet vibe to that declaration and again, I felt for Dean so keenly for all that he had lost as a child.

The guest actors were fine and if this had been an early season episode, I'm sure I would have appreciated it more(not as anything great, but not awful either) but it's not; and I can't forget or ignore where we are right now.

IOW, it feels like even the standalones aren't going to work for me this season. 

[gonzosgirrl]

The only outstanding criticism for me is that there was too much time spent on the setup (no Dean and Sam), the movies-within-the-show, and the closing. It seemed self-indulgent to me - like the writer and director really wanted to make their own slash film. 

[Myrelle]

There was the one part when the little guy was running from the baddie that went on way too long and all I could do was roll my eyes.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Myrelle

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, Myrelle said:

There was the one part when then little guy was running from the baddie that went on way too long. 

I thought that trailer was unnecessary too.  Its like they had two minutes to fill so they threw that in there.

The thing I didn't really like about the opening scene is that it felt more tied to having everyone in the bunker and Dean being uncomfortable more than the stuff with Michael.  I need that addressed, and not just in one "I'll feel guilty forever line."  Because that isnt' new.

Edited November 2, 2018 by ILoveReading

[Bergamot]

14 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The only outstanding criticism for me is that there was too much time spent on the setup (no Dean and Sam), the movies-within-the-show, and the closing. It seemed self-indulgent to me - like the writer and director really wanted to make their own slash film. 

I think that they were trying too hard to copy "Hollywood Babylon" -- I guess you could call it a "homage" if you wanted to be kind. But "Hollywood Babylon" had a more complex story with so many clever and fun elements -- it's really a great episode, in my opinion. Imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery, but let's face it, this writer is no Ben Edlund. On the whole, I enjoyed this episode, but overall it was pretty thin.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Bergamot

[Ninamags]

I liked this very much!  It did feel old school.

Just having Dean and Sam on my screen wearing dorky things and being in sync really was enough for me.

i felt bad for Dean when he said there were too many strangers in his home. 

I gave no thought to the cast of hundreds and where they were. Out of sight, out of mind. 

Loved how Dean was eating for much of the  episode. The pizza and then the lollipop and then the vending machine dinner. 

[Myrelle]

48 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

It was nice for someone to finally tell Dean it wasn't his fault, but it would be nice if the show acknowledged that Dean also killed Lucifer instead of just saying Dean did it for Sam and Jack.  I don't care if Dean believed it.  I as a viewer needed to hear it.

Yeah, he did it for his family. 

No world-saving for Dean according to these writers, I guess.

No surprise there, though.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, Myrelle said:

Yeah, he did it for his family. 

IIRC, he was mostly concerned about Sam (and Jack).  Not the world.  He did just exchange one big bad for another.

[ahrtee]

7 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

There was the one part when the little guy was running from the baddie that went on way too long and all I could do was roll my eyes.

 

5 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I thought that trailer was unnecessary too.  Its like they had two minutes to fill so they threw that in there.

There was an awful lot of padding, including the pre-credit setup which went on way too long, besides the two mentioned above.  It seems like they only had about 20 minutes of plot stretched out over 40.  Remember when they used to have too much to think about?

My main nitpick (which did take me out of the show for a while) was:  hasn't anyone ever heard of fire exits?  It's the law that you can't lock people inside a building with no way out (I believe since the Triangle Shirtwaist fire back in 1916 or so).  But aside from that, no windows?  No staff entrance?  No spare key?  

And no one thought to call 911--not when locked in, not when the kid was bleeding out on the front porch (Dean ran inside and Sam was patting the guy comfortingly, not reaching for his phone.)  Sheesh.  And I certainly hope those security guards got fired.  

I've been in hospitals overnight and there are always staff at the nurse's station, even if they're ignoring call buttons. :)  

And they never did explain (a) why they went in as insurance agents, since the kid obviously didn't have any insurance, or (b) why they were dressed like Herb Tarlek (thank you, whoever said that!)  They weren't pretending to be comic nerds, so why the outfits?  

But basically, I did enjoy it.  It was obviously not intended to be taken seriously, so I can handwave most of the nitpicks because I know they were all just for the set ups.  The brothers worked well together, Dean wasn't too big an idiot, and they did have a few nice moments.  That's all we can ask for lately, I guess.

[SueB]

Fun homage to the cheese-fest of horror films, right down to the "is the bad guy REALLY dead?" bit.

I'm seriously dissappointed we didn't get Sam telling Jess "You know how I feel about Halloween" in the "THEN".  I love it when they go back to the pilot.

I will say, the tie between the party and Halloween wasn't strong enough for a 25+ year aversion.  

I suspect when I watch again, the Easter Eggs are going to be plentiful in this episode.

Loved the bro-moments in this episode.  Sam gave Dean his space but then found the perfect "Dean-bait" case.  I wonder how many cases he looked through to find the perfect case to get Dean out of his "funk".  And Dean's "I'll never get over it." is pretty damn ominous.  That second shoe is going to drop eventually -- I don't know what, in particular, Michael did to Dean but the way he was so absolute, I think he's probably right.  Dean has this interesting duality when it comes to self-awareness.  He's actually quite self-aware IMO and it usually pops out when talking to strangers.  But for some reason, while he has this understanding of himself, he insists on not examining it with his brother.  It's like he won't allow himself to take comfort from working things out with Sam.  I'm not sure why.  Sam flat out told him he doesn't blame Dean, no one blames Dean.  And usually getting out of your own heading and talking issues over helps most people work through them.  But Dean doesn't allow himself to do that.  I wonder if it's something to do with his parentification and he feels he shouldn't lay this out for Sam.  IDK.  I just see that dynamic. I don't think it's because he doesn't trust Sam or anything.  I feel like it's somehow tied to protecting Sam from seeing his pain.

ITA, Dean is teasing Sam about the "Chief".  Dean took lead on most of this hunt.  I think Sam will always defer to Dean unless he's got a specific direction in mind he wants to pursue.

[Myrelle]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

IIRC, he was mostly concerned about Sam (and Jack).  Not the world.  He did just exchange one big bad for another.

The writers agree with you. 

Congrats.

[BoxManLocke]

Just now, Katy M said:

IIRC, he was mostly concerned about Sam (and Jack).  Not the world.  He did just exchange one big bad for another.

 

That's oversimplifying things I think. They knew Lucifer and what he would've done with this power. Michael on the other hand was more of an unknown entity.

 

Also the fight proved Lucifer was more powerful, and all that Michael's doing right now is lame experiments on vampires.

 

Dean has zero reason to beat himself up. It's good that Sam reminded him that, but I wish we'd just skip the bullshit altogether.

[ILoveReading]

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

IIRC, he was mostly concerned about Sam (and Jack).  Not the world.  He did just exchange one big bad for another.

Lucifer was going to burn down the planet and was twice as powerful with Jack's grace.  Because of Dean they have one arch angel to fight instead of 2.  I'd say that matters.  It would be nice if the show acknowledged it.

[Katy M]

Just now, BoxManLocke said:

Dean has zero reason to beat himself up. It's good that Sam reminded him that, but I wish we'd just skip the bullshit altogether.

I don't think he should beat himself up either.  What's done is done.  And, yes, he killed Lucifer which is good.  But, I'd prefer for BOTH of them to think of the bad that BOTH their stupid deals with devils bring on so that they can learn from their mistakes.

[gonzosgirrl]

15 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

I think that they were trying too hard to copy "Hollywood Babylon" -- I guess you could call it a "homage" if you wanted to be kind. But "Hollywood Babylon" had a more complex story with so many clever and fun elements -- it's really a great episode, in my opinion. Imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery, but let's face it, this writer is no Ben Edlund. On the whole, I enjoyed this episode, but overall it was pretty thin.

I think the problem is, one, it is a poor imitation. And two, it's all over shadowed by what could have been, should have been, an amazing Michael Dean arc. I can't help thinking about what we are missing.

[ILoveReading]

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't think he should beat himself up either.  What's done is done.  And, yes, he killed Lucifer which is good.  But, I'd prefer for BOTH of them to think of the bad that BOTH their stupid deals with devils bring on so that they can learn from their mistakes.

What choice did Dean have?  Archangels can only be killed by an arch angel with an arch angel blade (or at least that week).  Michael was too weak to take him on.  If Dean doesn't' do what he did, Sam and Jack are both Dean and Michael and Lucifer are both on the lose.  Because Michael wouldn't' have died.  He wasn't going to stop and play nice.    Dean had a bad choice and a worse choice. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by ILoveReading

[ZennyKenny]

1 hour ago, trudysmom said:

I know in the pilot, Sam told Jess "You know how I feel about Halloween".  Then it was what, a couple of days later she died?  I always thought after that he associated it with her death.   

Honestly that would have been way better. And it would have made sense.

[BoxManLocke]

5 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't think he should beat himself up either.  What's done is done.  And, yes, he killed Lucifer which is good.  But, I'd prefer for BOTH of them to think of the bad that BOTH their stupid deals with devils bring on so that they can learn from their mistakes.

 

But they did learn from that, seasons 11 and 12 had an entire arc about their dumbass choices and the fact they used to value each other's lives over the greater good. I do think they didn't nearly get enough shit for what they did in earlier seasons, but the writers did carry the message across.

Dean's choice in the last finale may have been partially motivated by family, but it was the only right one. He chose to potentially sacrifice himself to defeat Lucifer. That's what the greater good is about, which is why I had no problem with his decision. Compare that to the season 10 finale for example and it's just night and day.

Edited November 2, 2018 by BoxManLocke

[Bergamot]

3 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

That's oversimplifying things I think. They knew Lucifer and what he would've done with this power. Michael on the other hand was more of an unknown entity.

Also the fight proved Lucifer was more powerful, and all that Michael's doing right now is lame experiments on vampires.

Very true. Dean's not going to go around telling people what he did to protect them from Lucifer and Lucifer's imminent plans to "unravel the universe" (although it would be nice if someone else mentioned it) but nonetheless, that's what he did. And if he didn't care what happened except to Sam and Jack, he wouldn't be feeling the way he does now. Dean always feels that he must save everyone ("the whole wide world of sports", as he says in "Sam, Interrupted".)  It's one of the most fundamental truths of the character, and has been from the beginning.

[Wynne88]

I liked it.  I liked that Sam found a case that was right up Dean's alley to get him to re-engage, and I loved how much fun Dean had with it.  It's neat to watch him interacting with strangers who share his own interests and enthusiasm.  I do kind of wonder how Sam knew to go to the morgue instead of the hurt guy's hospital room, but I can handwave it.

[Ninamags]

Okay, was I being delusional in thinking the vending machine thief looked a lot like Jared??  

The one who had his leg chopped off?

 Also, I think I saw Jensen on one of those posters for a superhero or some movie??

 

???

[BabySpinach]

This was a pleasant surprise, and it once again proves how simple it is to write a decent Supernatural episode. Have a focused story without constant cutaways to a boring B-plot, prioritize the actual main characters, and don't waste valuable screentime on bland, obnoxious Mary Sues. Voila, a decently entertaining and inoffensive story at the very least. Davy Perez has certainly come a long way from forgetting Dean's very existence in the third acts of his episodes, so props for that. He also wrote Dean as consistently lovable and (mostly) competent.

Dean lying on his bed eating pizza and binging horror movies was goddamn adorable. One of the many reasons I find him the most vibrant and authentic character on the show is because he often has little scenes where he's enjoying himself like a regular human being. Even with the magnitude of tragedy and pain in his life, he can still find joy in the simple things. For whatever reason, Sam almost never gets these little grounding moments. Fourteen seasons in, and I still don't really know what Sam does for fun. The writers have implied that his tastes are generically higher-brow, from food to art to society, but they've never specified beyond that, which is a bit of a shame. They've made his character, in general, depend more on the main story, while Dean seems more self-sustaining and is consistently interesting no matter what he does eg. sit in bed, eat pizza, and watch horror movies (this is heavily IMO).

Sam's ending speech was about as good as I could have hoped for, from these writers. Perez hit most of the right notes and had Sam acknowledge the nobility and heroism of Dean's choice to say yes. It was framed as the right thing to do rather than a weak or foolish decision. For better and worse, "love" on this show is always an acceptable justification to do crazy, reckless shit (but only if you're not compromising your morals/principles/loved ones' trust). I don't understand why Sam's severely overdue words were saved for this episode rather than the previous one, but I guess Berens wanted a maximum-angst blue-balls ending for some dumb reason or other. I also refuse to take Dean's reference to Sam as "Chief" as anything other than sardonic ribbing until explicitly stated otherwise. Dean has never deferred to anyone, not even Death or God.

One small observation I'd like to add is that the recap reiterated that we don't know why Michael left Dean, and it notably didn't include any footage of Kaia Sue stabbing him. This gives me hope that it wasn't, in fact, the spear that was responsible. ETA: Actually, I was mistaken, but the footage didn't immediately follow the question of why Michael left, so I'm still holding to my spec.

I found this a middling episode that was miles better than 14.01 and 14.03. I wish there had been Michael flashbacks, since there are still a lot of unanswered questions, but this ep wasn't a bad one to tide me over for the time being. 

And a final thought: Jensen looked goddamn amazing. Glasses, checkered suit, funky socks and all. 

Edited November 3, 2018 by BabySpinach

[devlin]

I loved dean in this. I never thought I needed dean lying on a bed on his stomach watching horror movies wearing funny socks or wandering around a comic shop eating  a lollipop until now. My only gripe is that they reduced dean saying yes to being all about sam, never mind the fact that dean took out a superpowered Satan.

[ZennyKenny]

Hey does anybody know if Dean's tacky suit was a reference to anything slasher movie related? It was just o out-of-place on him, I kept getting distracted by it.

[Bergamot]

3 hours ago, ZennyKenny said:

Hey does anybody know if Dean's tacky suit was a reference to anything slasher movie related? It was just o out-of-place on him, I kept getting distracted by it.

I guess it might be something movie-related, but nothing comes to mind. To tell the truth, I just assumed that this was Dean's idea of what an insurance agent would look like, and I loved it! Dean has lived such a completely strange, unnatural, un-normal life since the age of four that he actually doesn't have any idea what it is like to be a normal, ordinary person, and when he tries to play the role of a normal person, he always gets it somehow weirdly off-kilter. It is very endearing. Remember him mowing the lawn in "What Is and What Should Never Be"?

(I especially liked the glasses he wore -- LOVE Dean in glasses! And it's not just me. Remember that one time when he was wearing them to hunt a hellhound, and Crowley complimented him and said how they really brought out his eyes? Hee!)

Edited November 2, 2018 by Bergamot

[Bergamot]

5 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

Dean lying on his bed eating pizza and binging horror movies was goddamn adorable.

YES!! And wearing a henley and socks, and propping himself up on his pillow to watch the movie -- so adorable!

10 hours ago, trudysmom said:

I also found it sloppy that they left the mannequin in the morgue. I sort of thought Dean might put it in the Impala and take it home!  

I was thinking the same thing! I really thought that in that last scene, we would see it lying in the back seat of the Impala.

I think the sloppiest plot point for me (and it was an important plot point, which makes it worse) was the way that the front door of the comic book store being locked meant no one could get out of the building. There is absolutely no way on earth that the store would have been allowed to stay open to the public if there was no emergency fire door exit. The writer could have explained it by having Sam and Samantha be trapped by some supernatural means, but the way that it was done was just stupid; it took me right out of the story and made the part about Sam exploding the door open to get out seem kind of silly.

[Myrelle]

9 hours ago, Bergamot said:

I think that they were trying too hard to copy "Hollywood Babylon" -- I guess you could call it a "homage" if you wanted to be kind. But "Hollywood Babylon" had a more complex story with so many clever and fun elements -- it's really a great episode, in my opinion. Imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery, but let's face it, this writer is no Ben Edlund. On the whole, I enjoyed this episode, but overall it was pretty thin.

Thin is a perfect descriptor of the writing of this one and of the first four episodes of this season, IMO. One and three were far worse than two and four in that regard to me, but yes, that's what the writing on this show on the whole and for the most part, has devolved into for this fan.

This one could have been worse and that's the best thing that I can come up with for it, but what's hardest for me to accept is that this is likely going to be typical of the best that the present set of writers on this show are ever going to be able to put out for us.

9 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I think the problem is, one, it is a poor imitation. And two, it's all over shadowed by what could have been, should have been, an amazing Michael Dean arc. I can't help thinking about what we are missing.

Yeah, my feeling after this episode is mostly one of deep mourning over that lost potential, too; and even though many of us predicted it as early as post Comic Con it still hurts because 10 years is a long time to wait for something only to have it almost immediately turn into just another disappointment because of weak and spineless writing and writers-again and some more. The MichaeI!Dean possession storyline was over before it even got started for this fan, too; and I now completely understand why it might feel like a total waste of time to some to choose to continue trying to watch this show as it's being written now, because my general feeling after watching this episode was one of simply deflation. And I think, for me, that comes from the knowledge that the show I used to love so much is well and truly gone for good now if an episode like this one leaves me feeling that way.

[PAForrest]

5 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

This was a pleasant surprise, and it once again proves how simple it is to write a decent Supernatural episode. Have a focused story without constant cutaways to a boring B-plot, prioritize the actual main characters, and don't waste valuable screentime on bland, obnoxious Mary Sues. Voila, a decently entertaining and inoffensive story at the very least. Davy Perez has certainly come a long way from forgetting Dean's very existence in the third acts of his episodes, so props for that. He also wrote Dean as consistently lovable and (mostly) competent.

Actually, that was my one big nit with this episode - that Perez went right back to sending Dean off screen for no good reason whatsoever, just like he did all season 12. Once Dean sets up the salt circle around the hospital bed, he disappears. While it was clever the way what was happening with his nerdy OC mirrored what the hospital guards were watching on TV - even though, yup, makes zero sense that in a busy hospital no one just happens to be working, and it went on way too long - it was done at Dean's expense. He goes off screen to ... I don't know, get coffee, ice cream, pizza, whatever - and finally shows up in the morgue at almost the very end when I'm guessing Perez can't not bring Dean back again for contract reasons. That was quintessential season 12 Dean-hatey Perez, IMO, and it soured what was otherwise kind of a fun episode with lots of old timey Supernatural call backs. Now I'm going to be on alert to see if Perez is fully back to his season 12 dump-Dean-off-screen tricks with every episode he writes this year. Wasn't for as long a time as he used to do in season 12, but it was the same Perez maneuver. Otherwise, yeah, I definitely got a Hollywood Babylon from this episode, which has always been one of my favorite episodes.

The two Samanthas being unable to get out of the comic book store from the inside because of a locked door is also nonsensical unless it was a supernatural lock-down, which it wasn't. So that was just plain dumb writing. Why not make it a supernatural lock-down in the first place?

I really kind of love-love-loved Dean hunkering down in his room to get away from the AU hunter crowd, because I totally feel him. In fact, if the AU hunters are going to continue to infest the bunker, I wouldn't blame Dean for moving out and into a motel. I know I would.

As for the "chief" line, I like how Jensen delivered the word very sarcastically, especially because I have to assume that's not the reverential way Perez heard it in his head. But Jensen is a master of making Dean his own in spite of showrunner/writer biases.

All in all, I liked the episode for what it was - despite the disappearing Dean act in the hospital. However, like Fan Fiction it's also very jarring given it's placement in the season and what we're missing from the loss of the Dean!Michael angle. Dumping that storyline is going to continue to hover over every episode going forth, especially any MotW standalone.

[strippedhalo]

I loved this one. Happy geek Dean is my favourite Dean. I have no idea why Dean's idea of insurance agent involved that suit, but he looked good, so whatever. I was more distracted by Sam's pocket protector.

Agree that Sam's Halloween secret was lame, but for a brief second I was afraid it was going to be that Dean hooked up with Sam's 6th grade crush, so the actual secret was kind of a relief.

Loved Dean's list of matching costumes he and Sam could wear. The Thelma and Louise suggestion seemed a little close to the bone, but still good.

I freely admit that I don't care at all about the Michael plot (I like my Dean to be Dean), and did not miss anyone who wasn't in this episode. I would miss Cas eventually, but the rest of them could head off into the sunset and I would be perfectly happy with that.

[Katy M]

5 minutes ago, strippedhalo said:

Agree that Sam's Halloween secret was lame, but for a brief second I was afraid it was going to be that Dean hooked up with Sam's 6th grade crush, so the actual secret was kind of a relief.

I actually thought that she was going to have been a monster. And on another note, I'm really glad that dean didn't remember her.  After School Special made it seem like they were switching schools every few weeks.  So, it kind of annoys me that they seem to remember every kid they went to school with ever.  

[Bobcatkitten]

Full honesty, I haven't read other reviews yet because I don't want anyone to ruin how much I liked this episode!

I have been craving an old-school hunting episode with the brothers - none of the separate storylines I could care less about, like the AU hunters or Bobby/Mary or Nick.  And this delivered with humor, callbacks to old episodes and a brother car talk!

 

I thought the ghost was cool - bringing comic book figures etc to life. Liked the side characters a lot. I loved Sam working with the store manager. They had good chemistry together. And Dean talking to Dirk about old movies in the hospital was the best ever.

 

So many awesome small things - watching the Winchesters try to duck in the car; Dean's face with the lollipop; the Scooby Doo lunchbox. I could go on.

 

Some might think Sam's Halloween secret was lame but I LOVED that is was a normal childhood experience that scarred him - not some crazy hunting trauma. It was a window to normal that was great. 

 

Most of all I loved watching the brothers - and the humans they were helping - work together to beat the ghosts. I like that they don't keep score about who gets the kill. It's a team win and they saved people and hunted things. 

 

P.S. My only negative is related to fandom, not the show per se. I am just over the various factions twisting every line in every scene to fit their ship. Both sides do it - claiming victory or shade. Ugh.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Bobcatkitten

[Myrelle]

9 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

Actually, that was my one big nit with this episode - that Perez went right back to sending Dean off screen for no good reason whatsoever, just like he did all season 12. Once Dean sets up the salt circle around the hospital bed, he disappears. While it was clever the way what was happening with his nerdy OC mirrored what the hospital guards were watching on TV - even though, yup, makes zero sense that in a busy hospital no one just happens to be working, and it went on way too long - it was done at Dean's expense. He goes off screen to ... I don't know, get coffee, ice cream, pizza, whatever - and finally shows up in the morgue at almost the very end when I'm guessing Perez can't not bring Dean back again for contract reasons. That was quintessential season 12 Dean-hatey Perez, IMO, and it soured what was otherwise kind of a fun episode with lots of old timey Supernatural call backs. Now I'm going to be on alert to see if Perez is fully back to his season 12 dump-Dean-off-screen tricks with every episode he writes this year. Wasn't for as long a time as he used to do in season 12, but it was the same Perez maneuver.

I was thinking the same thing when Dean "disappeared". My exact thought was "Where's Dean?..."and that's when I remembered that this one was a Perez episode.

 

12 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

However, like Fan Fiction it's also very jarring given it's placement in the season and what we're missing from the loss of the Dean!Michael angle. Dumping that storyline is going to continue to hover over every episode going forth, especially any MotW standalone.

 Yeah, this is it for me, too, I think.