The Conners Past and Present

[Bastet]

Economic conditions in Lanford when Dan bought the bike shop were very different than what they were by the time he had to close it down; the economic collapse plays out subtly all throughout season four and is brilliantly done.  They managed to set up a scenario where handling Lecy's departure by having Becky drop out of high school to get married is not anywhere near as outlandish as it sounds on paper.

They just ruined it later by bringing Mark and Becky back to town as different people (literally in Becky's case).

[Arcadiasw]

2 hours ago, Snow Apple said:

Did Dan know how to fix cars? If yes, he should have expanded the business to fix cars in addition to the motorcycle side. I can't imagine a lot of people in Landford spending money buying motorcycles, but many of the working class families probably have older cars that need servicing.

Dan seemed like a handyman. He could fix things around the house. I assume he could fix cars. 

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Economic conditions in Lanford when Dan bought the bike shop were very different than what they were by the time he had to close it down; the economic collapse plays out subtly all throughout season four and is brilliantly done.  They managed to set up a scenario where handling Lecy's departure by having Becky drop out of high school to get married is not anywhere near as outlandish as it sounds on paper.

They just ruined it later by bringing Mark and Becky back to town as different people (literally in Becky's case).

True but this isn't the first recession for Landford and the bike shop to go through. I get they needed to come up for a reason for Becky to leave though. 

[fishcakes]

I've been watching the reruns on COZI and the last couple of days have been the episodes where Dan quits his city job and bids on the prison drywall contract. It's so infuriating to see how unrealistic Dan and Roseanne are about the whole thing. She makes a token attempt at saying the city job brings security and benefits but then when he complains about how boring it is, she makes one crack about how exciting drywall is, then joins him in this crazy fantasy about how with the prison money, they can pay off the house and buy new cars. No thought about what they'll do for money and insurance and retirement after they spend the money from this one job. Not to mention that he had said multiple times throughout the years that he hated drywall work. They're only about 40 at the time; did they think they'd be set for life?

It's all made worse by the current episodes of The Conners, where we see how close Dan still is, 25 years later, to losing his house, and then hearing him blame Mark for how Becky's life turned out, when his own irresponsibility was just as, if not more, of a factor. It's realistic, but I hate it.

[StaceyNotStacie]

When Dan left the city job, didn’t Mark also leave his job with the city?  Just because Dan quit didn’t mean that Mark had to leave. Even if they had been married for a while, they probably could have had a small amount of money saved up. 

[Snow Apple]

16 minutes ago, Stacey1014 said:

When Dan left the city job, didn’t Mark also leave his job with the city?  Just because Dan quit didn’t mean that Mark had to leave. Even if they had been married for a while, they probably could have had a small amount of money saved up. 

I was going to say the same thing. If Mark stayed with a government job, would Becky get some kind of pension and/or life insurance after she was widowed? I'm not sure how that works.

[Arcadiasw]

On 4/23/2021 at 11:57 AM, RocknRollZombie said:

 

 

Once again this forum is always logical and respectful, the subreddit for the conners rn looks like a dang hate fest for Mark. I have to read “Mark was trash Darlene shouldn’t have named her son after him.”
 

Roseanne the show and any logical sense took a turn and flew out the window when it became the conners.  

Have the people posting on reddit even watch "Roseanne"? 

 

On 4/23/2021 at 11:02 AM, fishcakes said:

I've been watching the reruns on COZI and the last couple of days have been the episodes where Dan quits his city job and bids on the prison drywall contract. It's so infuriating to see how unrealistic Dan and Roseanne are about the whole thing. She makes a token attempt at saying the city job brings security and benefits but then when he complains about how boring it is, she makes one crack about how exciting drywall is, then joins him in this crazy fantasy about how with the prison money, they can pay off the house and buy new cars. No thought about what they'll do for money and insurance and retirement after they spend the money from this one job. Not to mention that he had said multiple times throughout the years that he hated drywall work. They're only about 40 at the time; did they think they'd be set for life?

It's all made worse by the current episodes of The Conners, where we see how close Dan still is, 25 years later, to losing his house, and then hearing him blame Mark for how Becky's life turned out, when his own irresponsibility was just as, if not more, of a factor. It's realistic, but I hate it.

Dan did say no to the prison job but Roseanne talked Dan into taking it for her own benefit because she had delusions of grandeur of the Lunchbox having a contract with the prison. 🙄

 

On 4/23/2021 at 1:26 PM, Snow Apple said:

I was going to say the same thing. If Mark stayed with a government job, would Becky get some kind of pension and/or life insurance after she was widowed? I'm not sure how that works.

Mark wouldn’t have stayed and if he wanted to Becky and Roseanne would've made him quit and join Dan. They would’ve forced him like Becky forced him to go to school. 

Did Fred quit and join Dan, too?

Watching the Gary episodes. I think Jackie blew it with him. They broke up over her job as an officer, correct? Jackie was going to quit anyway since she was going to be assigned to the desk. I think she overreacted . 

 

[StaceyNotStacie]

COZI is showing the reboot season. This is the first time I’ve watched since the original airing. I’m surprised by how much I enjoyed some of the episodes, and the interaction between Roseanne and the grandchildren and her adult children.  I enjoy the spin-off, but makes me sad as to what could have been. 

[Cherpumple]

On 4/26/2021 at 12:00 PM, RocknRollZombie said:

There’s a good handful of new fans that have even admitted that they have never watched the original show.

This genuinely surprises me. I can't imagine what about this show would draw in new viewers. But I guess my viewing is too heavily influenced by my love of the original (and my consequent disappoint with so many things in the reboot).

On 4/26/2021 at 12:00 PM, RocknRollZombie said:

a Roseanne fanfic author

Well that's a sentence I never thought I'd read. Tell us more! What do they write about?

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, RocknRollZombie said:

Well so far it only like 70 fanfics for Roseanne, but the author I’m in touch with is doing this entire rewrite/divergent what if beginning in Season 6 a slow burn with Darlene and Molly as a couple they still use the material for the original episodes to make it feel like a true AU. 
 

I myself try to expand and explore upon Becky and Mark as a couple, or try to write what it could have been for Mark and David to grow up in a toxic household.  

Oh, wow, that Darlene and Molly story sounds interesting. May have to give that a look at some point. 

I like your idea, too :). 

[Cherpumple]

55 minutes ago, RocknRollZombie said:

Well so far it only like 70 fanfics for Roseanne, but the author I’m in touch with is doing this entire rewrite/divergent what if beginning in Season 6 a slow burn with Darlene and Molly as a couple they still use the material for the original episodes to make it feel like a true AU. 
 

I myself try to expand and explore upon Becky and Mark as a couple, or try to write what it could have been for Mark and David to grow up in a toxic household.  

They both sound really interesting! The creativity of fanfic writers never fails to amaze me. : )

[Snow Apple]

10 hours ago, Stacey1014 said:

COZI is showing the reboot season. This is the first time I’ve watched since the original airing. I’m surprised by how much I enjoyed some of the episodes, and the interaction between Roseanne and the grandchildren and her adult children.  I enjoy the spin-off, but makes me sad as to what could have been. 

There were many times that I imagine Rosanne saying the lines and speeches Darlene has been sprouting. I think Rosanne could have pulled it off better. Sara/Darlene comes off as lecturing, grim, and self righteous since she lost her snarky humor.

Yeah, sad to imagine what might have been.

[Snow Apple]

I just saw the old Rosanne episode where Dan got the government job. He was so happy that he can take care of his family with insurance and can't get fired. He was also willing to share the blame for Becky running away which is why he didn't want to make the same mistake with Darlene.

It was sad to watch knowing he threw away the job. And how he's now putting the entire blame for what happened to Becky on Mark.

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, RocknRollZombie said:

I was rewatching season 6, and 7 this past weekend and have a new found anger for Roseanne controlling behavior/behavior in general in those seasons especially the fact when Mark hands her the test and he tells her  that there is her proof about what she has been saying and pretty much nailing that label into his head that he is an idiot and she sounds not apologetic about it, like when she says “when now it’s not funny anymore.” Like not shit Roseanne you basically tower down Mark’s confidence with your belittling.
 

it makes me wonder if Mark had to hear that type of belittling from his parents before he got kicked out, and now having a mother in law who is doing the same thing his parents did just really messed with him. 
 

the only highlight from that episode is that Jackie is the one that calls her out for her past treatment of Mark. God now I really want to do do a rewrite of season 6,7, and probably 8.

With NuBecky the only jokes they could think of was Mark is dumb and Becky is a bimbo.

Before,Mark might not have been book smart but he was able to support himself at a young age working as a mechanic. That is not dumb.

Edited May 5, 2021 by qtpye

[qtpye]

7 minutes ago, RocknRollZombie said:

He was definitely street smart and his knowledge in mechanics probably rivaled Dan’s own.  
 

Which kinda of makes me wonder did they just add that damn mini trade school arc just to hammer home Roseanne’s  point that  Mark 2.0 is dumb.  And that she can still control her adult children actions and by extension their spouses lives with basically an iron fist.  
 

like I love street smart Mark and goofy Mark but dam did I enjoy that moment in S8 when street smart takes no ones BS Mark is back. 

The only reason they could think of to make Mark and Becky move back in with Dan and Roseanne was to make Becky and Mark total failures.

[qtpye]

32 minutes ago, RocknRollZombie said:

Like I know one of major reasons was that Glenn became a fan favorite so they had to bring back Mark and by extension Becky. 
 

But to bring them back and do an entire 180 on their personalities. And just basically throw away the development they had. Is one of the things I will always find dumb basically.

like no other character can be allowed to be more successful than Roseanne and Darlene.

Yes, they could have easily brought them back and still had the writings stay true to the original characters.

[pinkandsparkly13]

I hated how rude Darlene was to Becky when Sarah Chalke was cast. They had a small nice moment when Becky first moved into the house and Darlene confessed that David was living with her in Chicago. Other than that, Darlene was always insulting her, calling her stupid and what not. She may not have graduated high school or gone to college, but she wasn't an idiot. Darlene didn't even graduate high school. I did like the moment when Becky confronted her and was trying to get David to as well. She told her she treated them both like crap and it was true a lot of the time. 

[Bastet]

Once Darlene went to Chicago, she was an asshole every time she came home. 

[ljenkins782]

On 4/22/2021 at 4:07 PM, Arcadiasw said:

Hindsight is 20/20 but when I binged Roseanne a couple weeks ago I realized they never should've ran the Bike Shop. 

Dan had a drywall business and fixed bikes on the side. He was more known for the drywall than fixing bikes. Where did the previous owner customers go? Did he get advice on how to run a bike business and what to do when sales are slow? Even with the recession, the shop shouldn't have folded in a year. Did Dan branch out and try to get business? 

I think the money Ziggy gave them should've gone to paying bills, a savings or expanding Dan's drywall business. 

It was a dumb move, but it seems like several factors were at play. Dan & Roseanne's high school friend blows into town with his loosey-goosey lifestyle that made it seem like, hey, maybe having kids doesn't have to totally influence your life choices and this happened when they were both about mid-life crisis time for their particular life choices (married young, had kids young, and those kids were well beyond babies).

Ziggy pumped them up with all of those dreams and then skipped town, again, it was dumb, but I can totally understand how it was hard for them to let go of that vision once it had been dangled in front of them. Neither Dan or Roseanne really had any role models in this new world of being business owners, so they didn't think it through and couldn't pivot when the bike sales angle wasn't working. 

In terms of realism, I thought it was well done. A lot of people aspire to do something different from what their parents did/what their peers are doing, but without guidance, it can go terribly wrong, as this did.

[qtpye]

45 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

It was a dumb move, but it seems like several factors were at play. Dan & Roseanne's high school friend blows into town with his loosey-goosey lifestyle that made it seem like, hey, maybe having kids doesn't have to totally influence your life choices and this happened when they were both about mid-life crisis time for their particular life choices (married young, had kids young, and those kids were well beyond babies).

Ziggy pumped them up with all of those dreams and then skipped town, again, it was dumb, but I can totally understand how it was hard for them to let go of that vision once it had been dangled in front of them. Neither Dan or Roseanne really had any role models in this new world of being business owners, so they didn't think it through and couldn't pivot when the bike sales angle wasn't working. 

In terms of realism, I thought it was well done. A lot of people aspire to do something different from what their parents did/what their peers are doing, but without guidance, it can go terribly wrong, as this did.

Yes, one of the things I loved about the old series is it showed people legitimately failing or having things not work out as planned

In other shows if someone was a high school drop out in the first season they would be a raging success by the third or fourth season.

I really thought, like other shows, the bike shop was going to be an amazing success.  I love the fact that they incorporated the recession of the early 90's, which seemed to come out of nowhere for me (I was a kid so I was not exactly aware of economic forecasts).

Now, they have people fail just to give them an excuse to live in the same house.

I like Becky's storyline and how it continues the fall that started almost 30 years ago from Dan's bike shop failing.

I like that Becky is getting her life back on track but they are not holding back on how difficult things are going to be for her.

It makes me root for her even more.

[Brn2bwild]

On 5/6/2021 at 8:58 PM, ljenkins782 said:

It was a dumb move, but it seems like several factors were at play. Dan & Roseanne's high school friend blows into town with his loosey-goosey lifestyle that made it seem like, hey, maybe having kids doesn't have to totally influence your life choices and this happened when they were both about mid-life crisis time for their particular life choices (married young, had kids young, and those kids were well beyond babies).

Ziggy pumped them up with all of those dreams and then skipped town, again, it was dumb, but I can totally understand how it was hard for them to let go of that vision once it had been dangled in front of them. Neither Dan or Roseanne really had any role models in this new world of being business owners, so they didn't think it through and couldn't pivot when the bike sales angle wasn't working. 

In terms of realism, I thought it was well done. A lot of people aspire to do something different from what their parents did/what their peers are doing, but without guidance, it can go terribly wrong, as this did.

It's ironic that Ziggy was the only one who had second thoughts after realizing how serious an undertaking it was.

[qtpye]

I just saw the episode Becky, Beds, and Boys on Amazon Prime.

This is the episode where they introduce Mark for the first time. It is kind of heart breaking now in hindsight considering what happened to the actor in real life and what happened to the character on the show.

Also, when I was young, I thought Dan and Roseanne were so cool and would be awesome parents to have. My own parents were pretty strict and proper (no dating in High School).

This was the episode where Dan and Roseanne go to Rodbells and get a new mattress. Now that I am around their age, I am mortified at how they acted in the mattress store.

Dan actually does a giant belly flop on a water bed...Dan was never a small man.

They lie on a king sized mattress and Dan proceeds to cuddle Roseanne and kisses her all over her head and the back of her neck...right on the showroom floor.

I actually feel sorry for the sales guy.

[Cherpumple]

On 4/22/2021 at 4:07 PM, Arcadiasw said:

Hindsight is 20/20 but when I binged Roseanne a couple weeks ago I realized they never should've ran the Bike Shop. 

The Conners really are an "all or nothing" couple, aren't they? The bike shop, the Lunchbox, Dan quitting his stable government job for one short-term contract. It's maddening. Why didn't Dan try Ziggy's approach and fix bikes on the side until he built up a strong reputation (and a pile of cash)? Why not add car repairs to his list of services? Why abandon the idea of adding a tattooist, just because that one guy was an ex-con? (I actually thought that was a great idea for his shop- a steady influx of cash for Dan and a great chance to widen his customer base.)

And on the "nothing" side of the equation, Roseanne immediately abandoning the idea of learning any new job skills after being told that she missed out on the great job at the meat-packing plant because of her lack of computer skills. Anyway, in some ways I admired the Conners' moxie to chase their dreams, but they made so many stupid decisions along the way that it became harder to root for them. Jackie was definitely a better role model in this department. When she got a new idea, she researched the pros/cons, went through the proper training, and then followed through.

On 5/4/2021 at 8:16 PM, RocknRollZombie said:

Mark hands her the test and he tells her  that there is her proof about what she has been saying and pretty much nailing that label into his head that he is an idiot and she sounds not apologetic about it, like when she says “when now it’s not funny anymore.”

The worst "Mark is dumb" moment for me is when Becky, Mark, Darlene, and David are playing scrabble and Mark plays the word "oxygen." He's super proud of himself and starts to gloat and makes a comment about how he's now the boss of all of them, especially Becky. Yes, it was a tad obnoxious, but rather than rolling their eyes and letting him have his moment to shine in an area where he usually doesn't, the three of them gang up on him to convince him that oxygen is not a real word, and he's stupid for thinking it is. He puts up a fight at first, but quickly crumbles, and becomes really dejected. I'm not a huge Mark fan, but I thought this was so mean and just made the other three look like bullies and jerks.

[qtpye]

3 minutes ago, Cherpumple said:

The Conners really are an "all or nothing" couple, aren't they? The bike shop, the Lunchbox, Dan quitting his stable government job for one short-term contract. It's maddening. Why didn't Dan try Ziggy's approach and fix bikes on the side until he built up a strong reputation (and a pile of cash)? Why not add car repairs to his list of services? Why abandon the idea of adding a tattooist, just because that one guy was an ex-con? (I actually thought that was a great idea for his shop- a steady influx of cash for Dan and a great chance to widen his customer base.)

And on the "nothing" side of the equation, Roseanne immediately abandoning the idea of learning any new job skills after being told that she missed out on the great job at the meat-packing plant because of her lack of computer skills. Anyway, in some ways I admired the Conners' moxie to chase their dreams, but they made so many stupid decisions along the way that it became harder to root for them. Jackie was definitely a better role model in this department. When she got a new idea, she researched the pros/cons, went through the proper training, and then followed through.

The worst "Mark is dumb" moment for me is when Becky, Mark, Darlene, and David are playing scrabble and Mark plays the word "oxygen." He's super proud of himself and starts to gloat and makes a comment about how he's now the boss of all of them, especially Becky. Yes, it was a tad obnoxious, but rather than rolling their eyes and letting him have his moment to shine in an area where he usually doesn't, the three of them gang up on him to convince him that oxygen is not a real word, and he's stupid for thinking it is. He puts up a fight at first, but quickly crumbles, and becomes really dejected. I'm not a huge Mark fan, but I thought this was so mean and just made the other three look like bullies and jerks.

The Connors just loved the thrill of jumping off a cliff and hoping they would somehow learn to fly along the way.

Yes, if Ziggy was earning $20k fixing up bikes to sell to rich doctors, he definitely could have thrown a couple clients Dan's way. That would have been a great way to earn money without having to take out that second mortgage. I remember during the Aliens episode  that Dan said the family earned around 31K a year so an extra 20k would have really made a difference.

You know an idea is bad if Ziggy does not want to do it.

By the time the stupid oxygen scrabble episode had come around the show had become unwatchable for me.

[Cherpumple]

1 minute ago, qtpye said:

You know an idea is bad if Ziggy does not want to do it.

Very true! After all, this was a grown man who tried to tempt Dan into going to the Sturgis bike rally by promising him they could "trash the Marriott."

[peacheslatour]

Quote

The Conners really are an "all or nothing" couple, aren't they? The bike shop, the Lunchbox, Dan quitting his stable government job for one short-term contract. It's maddening. Why didn't Dan try Ziggy's approach and fix bikes on the side until he built up a strong reputation (and a pile of cash)? Why not add car repairs to his list of services? 

Right? his dry wall business was feast or famine most of the time . He had slow times in the winter when he could do motorcycle and auto repair. He was perfectly set up for it with that detached garage,

Quote

Why abandon the idea of adding a tattooist, just because that one guy was an ex-con? (I actually thought that was a great idea for his shop- a steady influx of cash for Dan and a great chance to widen his customer base.)

The insurance cost was prohibitive.

[Arcadiasw]

On 5/10/2021 at 2:36 AM, Brn2bwild said:

It's ironic that Ziggy was the only one who had second thoughts after realizing how serious an undertaking it was.

Sometimes it's the ones people think are the most screwed up are the first to realize how bad ideas are. 

13 hours ago, qtpye said:

 

Also, when I was young, I thought Dan and Roseanne were so cool and would be awesome parents to have. My own parents were pretty strict and proper (no dating 

This was the episode where Dan and Roseanne go to Rodbells and get a new mattress. Now that I am around their age, I am mortified at how they acted in the mattress store.

Dan actually does a giant belly flop on a water bed...Dan was never a small man.

They lie on a king sized mattress and Dan proceeds to cuddle Roseanne and kisses her all over her head and the back of her neck...right on the showroom floor.

I actually feel sorry for the sales guy.

It's always funniest when we are not the butt of the jokes. The Conners are fun to watch but they definitely had cringe moments where you wouldn't want to be around them.

13 hours ago, Cherpumple said:

The Conners really are an "all or nothing" couple, aren't they? The bike shop, the Lunchbox, Dan quitting his stable government job for one short-term contract. It's maddening. Why didn't Dan try Ziggy's approach and fix bikes on the side until he built up a strong reputation (and a pile of cash)? Why not add car repairs to his list of services? Why abandon the idea of adding a tattooist, just because that one guy was an ex-con? (I actually thought that was a great idea for his shop- a steady influx of cash for Dan and a great chance to widen his customer base.)

And on the "nothing" side of the equation, Roseanne immediately abandoning the idea of learning any new job skills after being told that she missed out on the great job at the meat-packing plant because of her lack of computer skills. Anyway, in some ways I admired the Conners' moxie to chase their dreams, but they made so many stupid decisions along the way that it became harder to root for them. Jackie was definitely a better role model in this department. When she got a new idea, she researched the pros/cons, went through the proper training, and then followed through.

 

I dislike when they come across as entitled to stuff because they had to struggle instead of learning from their errors and not making the same ones over and over again or not trying to better themselves like Roseanne not learning computer skills. 

I still side eye Chuck from last week's rerun  of how he's comfortable now when Dan could've been in the same position if Chuck didn't come to him with the prison job.🙄

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I still side eye Chuck from last week's rerun  of how he's comfortable now when Dan could've been in the same position if Chuck didn't come to him with the prison job.🙄

Chuck didn't hold a gun to his head and Roseanne was actively encouraging it.

[bobalina]

48 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Chuck didn't hold a gun to his head and Roseanne was actively encouraging it.

Because Chuck and Anne Marie valued saving and bad only 1 kid. Dan himself says it in that episode that Chuck doesn't know the pleasure of spending a whole paycheck on food that shouldn't be fried. In other words Dan and Roseanne  grabbed the fast and fun and never grew up.

[Bastet]

17 hours ago, qtpye said:

Yes, if Ziggy was earning $20k fixing up bikes to sell to rich doctors, he definitely could have thrown a couple clients Dan's way.

He lived somewhere else; his clients weren't going to head over to Lanford to shop.

The bike shop was doing decent business when Dan bought it, the guy just wanted to retire.  Economic conditions in Lanford started to change shortly afterward, and by the end of season four, Roseanne was out of a job because Rodbell's adjusted to the downturn by changing its in-store diner to a bargain bin and Dan had to close down the shop because there were no longer enough people with disposable income to spend on a bike.

It was a risky decision at the time, as any business is, but it wasn't a stupid one.

[Snow Apple]

21 minutes ago, bobalina said:

Because Chuck and Anne Marie valued saving and bad only 1 kid. Dan himself says it in that episode that Chuck doesn't know the pleasure of spending a whole paycheck on food that shouldn't be fried. In other words Dan and Roseanne  grabbed the fast and fun and never grew up.

We also don't know what happened between the end of Rosanne and the beginning of the reboot. Anne Marie may have gotten a job and saved. Chuck Jr. may have gone to college and/or got a job to help with the bills. We know the Connor kids didn't help until they found out about the foreclosure.

Every time the Connors get a windfall, they blow it on something big.  They also self-sabotage themselves. Remember when Leon implemented all the ideas that made the Lunch Box a lot of money? Jackie and Nancy were thrilled with the profits. Not Rosanne. She kept vetoing the ideas.

[peacheslatour]

3 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

We also don't know what happened between the end of Rosanne and the beginning of the reboot. Anne Marie may have gotten a job and saved. Chuck Jr. may have gone to college and/or got a job to help with the bills. We know the Connor kids didn't help until they found out about the foreclosure.

Every time the Connors get a windfall, they blow it on something big.  They also self-sabotage themselves. Remember when Leon implemented all the ideas that made the Lunch Box a lot of money? Jackie and Nancy were thrilled with the profits. Not Rosanne. She kept vetoing the ideas.

I get wanting to be home with your kids but by then Darlene was a teenager, Becky already had one foot out the door and even DJ had friends and a social life. Roseanne was just being her usual short sighted self.

[Arcadiasw]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

Chuck didn't hold a gun to his head and Roseanne was actively encouraging it.

True but it wasn't a smart idea and Chuck was thinking how it will benefit him. It's ironic for Chuck to brag about the smart financial decisions he made when he encouraged his friend to make a bad one financially. 

20 minutes ago, Bastet said:

started to change shortly afterward, and by the end of season four, Roseanne was out of a job because Rodbell's adjusted to the downturn by changing its in-store diner to a bargain bin and Dan had to close down the shop because there were no longer enough people with disposable income to spend on a bike.

It was a risky decision at the time, as any business is, but it wasn't a stupid one.

One of the reasons why Roseanne couldn't find work elsewhere in the mall after Rodbell's closed is her attitude and bad service to customers. Another way Roseanne shot herself in the foot. 🤦‍♀️

 

[qtpye]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

He lived somewhere else; his clients weren't going to head over to Lanford to shop.

The bike shop was doing decent business when Dan bought it, the guy just wanted to retire.  Economic conditions in Lanford started to change shortly afterward, and by the end of season four, Roseanne was out of a job because Rodbell's adjusted to the downturn by changing its in-store diner to a bargain bin and Dan had to close down the shop because there were no longer enough people with disposable income to spend on a bike.

It was a risky decision at the time, as any business is, but it wasn't a stupid one.

To me it seemed like Ziggy lived a pretty nomadic flying by the seat of your pants lifestyle.  He rode a bull and sometimes shacked up with women here and there.

He probably could have figured something out with Dan during the off season for drywall.

It also seemed liked the plan was to sell to upper middle class professionals as opposed to bikers. Their jobs are not as vulnerable to economic downturns though it depends on their field or particular profession.

Edited May 13, 2021 by qtpye

[ljenkins782]

7 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Chuck didn't hold a gun to his head and Roseanne was actively encouraging it.

The Conners' problem seemed to be that they were all gas and no brake. It's important to have that person to throw cold water on a bad idea, but both Roseanne and Dan were the dreamers, no one was the realist.

Quote

 

He lived somewhere else; his clients weren't going to head over to Lanford to shop.

The bike shop was doing decent business when Dan bought it, the guy just wanted to retire.  Economic conditions in Lanford started to change shortly afterward, and by the end of season four, Roseanne was out of a job because Rodbell's adjusted to the downturn by changing its in-store diner to a bargain bin and Dan had to close down the shop because there were no longer enough people with disposable income to spend on a bike.

It was a risky decision at the time, as any business is, but it wasn't a stupid one.

 

It wasn't a good idea for them, it seems like an auxiliary job for someone who has some sort of income pad. Motorcyles are not a necessity and the Conners never had the savings to ride the highs and lows of sales on an item that isn't guaranteed to fly off the shelves. I can't imagine that sales would be that steady even when economic conditions were better, it was still a small, working-class town.

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It's ironic that Ziggy was the only one who had second thoughts after realizing how serious an undertaking it was.

I do think he had second thoughts partially because he realized he was impacting 5 people (Roseanne & Dan + their kids), but I also think the bigger factor was that running a bike shop was going to root him to Lanford and he wasn't into that. He had a good thing going with his random, high ticket bike repair jobs and it funded his nomadic lifestyle. Settling down into a bike business wasn't what he wanted, so he bailed, leaving the money as a mea culpa. 

[Giuseppe]

On 5/12/2021 at 12:20 AM, Cherpumple said:

the three of them gang up on him to convince him that oxygen is not a real word, and he's stupid for thinking it is. He puts up a fight at first, but quickly crumbles, and becomes really dejected. I'm not a huge Mark fan, but I thought this was so mean and just made the other three look like bullies and jerks.

I always hated that, too. I've noticed that in the syndicated re-runs (at least on the channels that I watch them on), they cut out the 'oxygen isn't really a word' part, and just end it on Mark celebrating his win, for which I'm glad. It was probably just cut for time, but I like to believe the editors realized how stupid and mean-spirited it was, too, and this was their way of retroactively letting Mark have his win :)

[qtpye]

20 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

The Conners' problem seemed to be that they were all gas and no brake. It's important to have that person to throw cold water on a bad idea, but both Roseanne and Dan were the dreamers, no one was the realist.

It wasn't a good idea for them, it seems like an auxiliary job for someone who has some sort of income pad. Motorcyles are not a necessity and the Conners never had the savings to ride the highs and lows of sales on an item that isn't guaranteed to fly off the shelves. I can't imagine that sales would be that steady even when economic conditions were better, it was still a small, working-class town.

I do think he had second thoughts partially because he realized he was impacting 5 people (Roseanne & Dan + their kids), but I also think the bigger factor was that running a bike shop was going to root him to Lanford and he wasn't into that. He had a good thing going with his random, high ticket bike repair jobs and it funded his nomadic lifestyle. Settling down into a bike business wasn't what he wanted, so he bailed, leaving the money as a mea culpa. 

If Ziggy was young today I imagine that he would probably have a vlog called something like "On the Road with Ziggy".

The nomadic lifestyle has really taken off in the last decade.

[geauxaway]

There’s no topic for DJ (not surprising), but man this reboot has erased him.  And it got me thinking.  Going on season 4 and Gina is STILL deployed???  Um no.  But hey who cares when it’s the sad sack Darlene and Becky show.  They continue to fuck their lives up with poor choices and DJ who has a wife and daughter is all but forgotten.  Gina would be back by now and up for discharge or re-enlist.

[peacheslatour]

16 minutes ago, geauxaway said:

There’s no topic for DJ (not surprising), but man this reboot has erased him.  And it got me thinking.  Going on season 4 and Gina is STILL deployed???  Um no.  But hey who cares when it’s the sad sack Darlene and Becky show.  They continue to fuck their lives up with poor choices and DJ who has a wife and daughter is all but forgotten.  Gina would be back by now and up for discharge or re-enlist.

Maybe she got back a while ago and she just didn't tell anyone so she doesn't have to see her horrible in laws?

[geauxaway]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Maybe she got back a while ago and she just didn't tell anyone so she doesn't have to see her horrible in laws?

Lmao!  Probably.  Because they would know she is getting BAH and BAS.  
 

I would still like to know where the stimulus money this household received went.  It had to be upwards of $12k

[Snow Apple]

TVLand is showing the first season of Rosanne now and it's so weird seeing Jackie and Booker get involved. Wasn't that against company rules even back then? They didn't seem to really hide it.

I like Rosanne and Jackie with all the other workers though. It's nice to see them socializing. Wellmans was bright and they all try to be cheerful and make the best of it.

The current version of Wellmans is dingy and everyone seems beaten down. It's no wonder Darlene responded to Brian Austin Green's happy-go-lucky character amongst that grim environment.

[qtpye]

28 minutes ago, Snow Apple said:

TVLand is showing the first season of Rosanne now and it's so weird seeing Jackie and Booker get involved. Wasn't that against company rules even back then? They didn't seem to really hide it.

I like Rosanne and Jackie with all the other workers though. It's nice to see them socializing. Wellmans was bright and they all try to be cheerful and make the best of it.

The current version of Wellmans is dingy and everyone seems beaten down. It's no wonder Darlene responded to Brian Austin Green's happy-go-lucky character amongst that grim environment.

That is an interesting observation. I think one of the issues is that the women of Rosanne's generation wanted to work in the factory. It was a good job with decent wages, overtime, full benefits, and a pension. Sure, it was not glamourous but it provided a sold working-class lifestyle.

Here, I think the factory opened up temporarily for Covid...though I am not sure about that. I would not be surprised if the workers are actually supposed to be independent contractors instead of employees but I think they had a Union? I really have no idea if the factory jobs are permanent with benefits or mostly just temporary gigs.

Anyway, I doubt what they are paying really cuts it with inflation (Darlene even said that as a manager, she only managed to save up $45).

Also, Darlene and Becky really thought that they would be better off than their mother and would not have to work these types of jobs. They are actually doing much worse than their mother as she had financial security in her 30's, with only a high school degree that they have not achieved by their 40's.

Some of it is their own fault for making bad decisions and some of it is that those avenues for low-skilled blue-collar people to make a good living no longer exist.

[qtpye]

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Pay Dirt is Slate’s new money advice column. Have a question? Send it to Athena and Elizabeth here. (It’s anonymous!)

Dear Pay Dirt,

My great-grandparents left their four great-grandchildren $10,000 for college in investment accounts. Five years after their passing, the accounts were worth $30,000 each, thanks to some smart investing by my uncle. At this point, my parents closed my and my brother’s accounts and invested the $60,000 in their business. This business went bust a year later, sending my parents into bankruptcy, foreclosure, and a nasty divorce. I was 12 when the accounts were closed and didn’t know anything about the money until much later. My cousins (the other two recipients) used their money to graduate college debt-free and were both homeowners by their early 20s. I’m told the accounts were worth almost $80,000 apiece by the time my cousins cashed out their inheritance.

I recently graduated college with a lot of debt, even though I attended state school on a good scholarship. My parents couldn’t contribute financially, and I received financial aid as an independent student. This meant more private loans than the average scholarship kid. As a graduation gift, my mother promised to leave me her house in her will to eventually pay me back for the lost college fund. But now she’s saying she wants to sell her house (now the mortgage is paid off) and move into a beachfront retirement rental community in a different state.

I don’t want to sound greedy, but this idea hurts my feelings. While I recognize her autonomy to make her own financial decisions, it still hurts that she’s already forgotten her so-called gift. I’ve never actually said anything about this situation to my mother because I recognize it is something she feels very guilty about. I don’t know if this new housing decision is based on some debt in my mother’s life that I am unaware of or if this is just how she wants to live out her retirement. Am I OK to feel hurt by this decision? How do I let go of the resentment of my misspent college fund? Should I bring this up with my mother or stay quiet?

—Greedy Child

Dear Greedy Child,

That is so shitty your parents took your money, then lost it—and also cost you so much headway you could have had as an adult. The cherry on top is you get a reminder every time your cousins host a barbecue. Not cool.

In this instance, I would say your mom is the greedy one, not you. It’s not OK for her to promise you this house to pay off your loans that you had to take out because she and your dad blew money your grandparents had set aside for your education. The cold, hard fact is she doesn’t feel guilty. She fakes guilt in hopes you’ll let her off the hook and can remain civil.

I am worried you will be miserable until you come to terms with this betrayal. It would be best if you weren’t miserable! You don’t deserve that. If you have the means to do so, I would start counseling to work through the mistrust and financial abandonment your mother has caused. You can also seek out therapists who work on a sliding scale or other lower-cost options if your budget is tight right now. From there, you can better assess the situation with your mom and how to move forward. I’m thinking of you.

I just read this on a site that I often visit and posted it here because it reminds me of old-school Roseanne.

• First, the person's parents squandered their college fund on a failed business
• Second, the college fund was an inheritance

It of course reminded me about how Becky's life got derailed with the bike shop and how Dan/Roseanne was bailed out by Bev, only to put the money in another risky business venture.

The person in this article did go to college but is saddled with a lot of debt, unlike her cousins. 

It also reminds me that when Becky was young that college was one of the paths people touted as a sure-fire way to success. I think now about how student loan debt might be crippling a generation and a college degree really does not guarantee anything.

 

[tessaray]

2 minutes ago, RocknRollZombie said:

whiner.” what excuse does Becky have now that Mark is gone for not going to college? the alcohol, the sleeping around did those stop her from going back to college, it didn’t stop her from working as a waitress. Without Mark, Becky officially has no one but to blame but herself for not going back.

It's hard to work for a future when you're grieving the loss of your partner and your life with them. Grief and depression isn't something most people can just snap out of.  And then at some point the drinking as part of the response to her grief turned into the alcoholism. Becky was basically a functional alcoholic for all those years. That wasn't Mark's fault. But yeah, I agree a better family should have said something a long time ago.

In this iteration of the show, Becky is the only one I still like. She's resilient and has a good heart. (Well, I still like DJ but he's rarely around.)

The thing about a college degree is that unless you want a career that requires one, a degree often feels like an expensive door opener. But it doesn't hurt to be prepared so that when opportunity knocks... 🙂 

[tessaray]

1 hour ago, RocknRollZombie said:

sorry for being so close minded to the aspects of grief in my previous post, I’m kinda of dealing with my own grief or trying to due to a very recent lost in my family.

No apologies needed.

I'm sorry for your loss. Life is hard enough at the best of times, dealing with grief on top of that makes everything tougher. 💔

[qtpye]

Watched another episode of old Roseanne called "White Sheep of the Family"

This is the one where they spend some inheritance on taking the whole family to a fancy restaurant and find out that Darlene turned down a 30K a year job to continue with school.

Later in the episode, Rosanne tells Darlene that she is proud Darlene is doing better than Roseanne/Dan, and Darlene will be able to provide amazing things and opportunities for her children to do even better than Darlene.

This hurts when you consider that just the opposite happened. Darlene has not better than Roseanne and can not provide Harris/Mark with hardly any type of financial or educational security, as of yet.

[Bastet]

That "Don't get above your raising" storyline was really well done, with Darlene suddenly seeming like a "them" rather than an "us" to the family back in Lanford, so all her usual sarcastic digs they'd also make themselves no longer felt okay coming from her.

And it's indeed a sad commentary on how things have changed; even at the time Roseanne said it, it was no longer true that Darlene's education meant she'd do better than them and her future kids would do even better than her, but it still felt true to someone who grew up when Roseanne did and Darlene believed it as well.  By the time Darlene hit the same age, it was quite demonstrably untrue.

This spinoff is more ham-fisted in its delivery, but the original series did a terrific job of showing the truth behind the "American Dream" myth.  The destruction of unions put middle class out of reach for blue collar workers, the decimation of small businesses severely narrowed that other traditional path, and higher education certainly wasn't an automatic golden ticket like it was trumpeted to be; individual success stories aside, most people who are born poor will die poor.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Bastet

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

That "Don't get above your raising" storyline was really well done, with Darlene suddenly seeming like a "them" rather than an "us" to the family back in Lanford, so all her usual sarcastic digs they'd also make themselves no longer felt okay coming from her.

And it's indeed a sad commentary on how things have changed; even at the time Roseanne said it, it was no longer true that Darlene's education meant she'd do better than them and her future kids would do even better than her, but it still felt true to someone who grew up when Roseanne did and Darlene believed it as well.  By the time Darlene hit the same age, it was quite demonstrably untrue.

This spinoff is more ham-fisted in its delivery, but the original series did a terrific job of showing the truth behind the "American Dream" myth.  The destruction of unions put middle class out of reach for blue collar workers, and higher education wasn't an automatic golden ticket; individual success stories aside, most people who are born poor will die poor.

Also, that a degree was no guarantee of success. It was shocking to me that the whole family was blown away by a 31k job, which was not even a ton of money back then. I also think they were stunned because copywriting is a creative type white collar job and none of them ever had a job like that before.

I have to say the family acted horrible to Darlene but this was kind of the start of smug Darlene, as well. She really thought she had it made and was going to leave them all behind in the dust.

This job was the catalyst for Becky wanting to return to school in Becky Houser, MD. Again totally different writing for different Becky’s. 

Chalk’s Becky was proud that Mark and she were able to move out on their own into the trailer. Leci’s Becky was horribly embarrassed of her living situation.

In this episode Becky blames Mark for how her life turned out at 21. She even yells at her mother for “letting her marry him”

It occurred to me that Becky actually also used Mark as a convenient scapegoat for her failures all her life.

I do think that she grieved horribly when he died but the death also provided an excuse for her not to move on. She was lamenting that 21 was too old to get her life back on track and boom... now she is 45, with a baby.

It saddens me that Mark became this punching bag but it is very realistic.

The family and Becky would rather blame Mark than admit that Becky never had the focus and discipline to return to school. They can’t admit this because Becky was the golden child and they would have take responsibility for their own failures and Connors are much more comfortable being victims than taking agency for their own actions.

Edited May 23, 2021 by qtpye

[peacheslatour]

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But the family just seems worse, meaner, , more avoiding and more poverty stricken than they were in the revival season. 

It's pretty realistic actually. Families I've known that started out poor and never really evolved to do better do get worse and meaner. If you look at a lot of immigrant families that came here with nothing and within one generation, have kids graduating from college because they worked their asses off, went without and emphasized scholastic accomplishment over vapid tv watching, going on expensive vacations, eating out or ordering in and compare them with the Conners mindless consumerism, you see why they are never going to dig themselves out of poverty and victimhood.

[Snow Apple]

But the thing is they could have done better. Rosanne could have taken computer classes and re-applied for that office job. Darlene could have taken that $30k job and maybe she'd be an office manager or higher now. She still could have gone to school part time. But working in an office probably wasn't artistic or cool enough for her. 

Becky could have gone to community college instead of working at Fake Hooters. As a student, she could find a job at the school like at the bookstore or a receptionist. Make some networking connections. Even in the reboot, what happened to the hospitality classes?

Darlene could have taken that murder magazine job, but she thought with her heart instead of her head.

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Snow Apple

[qtpye]

4 hours ago, RocknRollZombie said:

Thinking back to Becky Howser M.D and how Roseanne came to Mark’s defense and how Mark told Roseanne in his own way that he would have been okay with the college thing if it wasn’t just sprung on him out of nowhere that he wouldn’t leave Becky for anything. 
 

 Like I love them as a couple, but both portrayals of Becky also had there own faults. And another worst moment of Becky in their marriage had to be when Chalke’s Becky forcing him to go to trade school telling him that she didn’t want him to feel worthless and the underline pain in Mark’s eyes and his response, to her in that scene, the one person who he cares and loves basically called him worthless, I was glad Dan gave her a talk during that little arc.

There is no doubt that they loved each other, and that Mark’s death hit her hard because she lost him and their future of what could have been.

But the family just seems worse, meaner, , more avoiding and more poverty stricken than they were in the revival season. 

Probably the worst part of Becky Howser MD is when Roseanne asks Becky if she thought about how her plans could derail her marriage and Becky just shrugged, like losing Mark was no big deal to her. This was pretty shocking to me because she always seemed to care about him before.

The problem is that it just was canon that Becky married down when she married Mark,

Mark had skills as a mechanic and was incredibly good-looking. Mark could turn it around and ask what the hell was Becky bringing to the table that made him such a come down for her? 

Also, the family just took it for granted that Becky was going to become a doctor because she said she sort of wanted to be one. Getting into medical school is extremely difficult and at that point, I do not think Becky had completed one community college class since running off with Mark.

She definitely could have gotten an Associate's degree but really never seemed motivated. Just because she was the Connor with the best grades in what was probably a below-average school system did not automatically mean that she was academically gifted.