S05.E02: Blocked

[TwistedandBored]

I don't care about the show using schway too much. It is to close to sway that I am immune to it. However, the only time I have ever loved them using schway is when Iris trying to get close to her future Nora pretended she knew what schway means. I mean she got close but the way CP delivered that line made me weak. Honestly, CP is such a great comedic actress as well. 

[bettername2come]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

In Joes defense, I would say 6th grade is 11years old. Perhaps Barry had a late bday or had been held back. Lol. Those blasted continuity fairies. I know boys tend to hit puberty later than girls but the child they had playing kid Barry looked closer to 8 than 11. 

Oh, that newest young Barry is way too young. Drives me crazy.

Ah, The Flash. Where only the writing staff can screw up the timeline more than Barry Allen can.

[phoenics]

9 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

That's not quite true.  To Joe, this is his son disappearing (a father's worst nightmare).  To Cisco and Caitlin, it's like a brother disappearing.  It might not be the same impact but there's more than a professional "we're losing our city's hero" feeling here.  He should have told Iris privately but it's not like he's announcing this in front of Iris and Team Arrow.

It's not even close to the same, I'm sorry.  Cisco and Caitlin are recent friends - not lifelong friends.  Iris has known Barry longer than ANYONE on this show.  Longer than Joe.  Longer than any of them.  The only ones who knew Barry longer were his parents.

Cisco and Caitlin are good friends - but they aren't Iris.  They aren't his wife.  And she trumps them.  Period.  So to THEM, he is a friend, but a Flash Friend disappearing.  Losing him will NOT impact them in any way close to the way it would impact Iris.  Are Cisco and Caitlin going to parent Nora?  Change her damn diapers?  CARRY her in their bellies?

No - I'm surprised at the suggestion that they will feel this loss more than Iris or even on the same level.

Iris is losing her best friend, lifelong friend, husband and the father of her child AND The flash.

Here's the thing - Barry was 100% right to tell Iris about Savitar privately.  Just like Nora was kinda right to tell Barry about his disappearance.  But it was wrong not to tell Iris privately.  Joe could have been told privately as well - but Caitlin and Cisco don't register on the same scale or level of importance.  Sorry - they simply don't.

Family is not the same as friends.  And a wife trumps ALL of the above.  Especially if said wife is the love of your life and the previous day she was waxing poetic about getting a happy ending with you.

She should have been told privately - and FIRST before anyone - even Joe.

[ottoDbusdriver]

10 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

It's their "fetch".

And I wish they quit trying to make schway happen.

[phoenics]

16 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

Oh, that newest young Barry is way too young. Drives me crazy.

Ah, The Flash. Where only the writing staff can screw up the timeline more than Barry Allen can.

Oh hahahahaha!!  That gave me a belly laugh.

And btw - is there an ETA on the better name?  I've been wondering for months!

[bettername2come]

13 minutes ago, phoenics said:

 

And btw - is there an ETA on the better name?  I've been wondering for months!

I've been waiting eleven years. Apparently I use all my creativity to pick on Flash writers instead. I think I made the right call.

[UNOSEZ]

Also... What was going on with Singh's hair??.. Not schway at all

[phoenics]

1 hour ago, UNOSEZ said:

Also... What was going on with Singh's hair??.. Not schway at all

Someone said it was a hairpiece - but I don't think so.  It was pretty bad though... Maybe he's shooting a period piece somewhere?

Though I did love his interaction with Iris though.  He was nearly chomping at the bit to give her tidbits for her story.  

[DearEvette]

11 hours ago, ursula said:

I'm sorry but there's no comparison here. If (Heaven-forbid) my husband just found out he had a terminal diseased, I'd expect him to tell me privately, one-on-one, and not in front of the "family". Joe isn't Barry's wife. Neither are Cisco or Caitlin. I'm not even touching Ralph. There's no comparison to the relationships he has with any of these people to the one he has with Iris - a woman with whom he's already been through so much. 

And the fact that he's shown to basically dismiss her feelings --- "Iris is a strong, black woman. She'll be fine" --- is doubly disturbing.

I 100% agree.  When Barry said 'Iris is as tough as they come" I turned to my husband and said 'Did he just Strong Black Woman her?"  Ugh.

Not only this, but with Barry and Nora choosing to include Iris in on the secret at the same time as everyone else, it placed her as an outsider to her own nuclear family unit.  It was clear not only did Nora and Barry have a vital piece of information, but Iris was not a part of it.  It was a blindside.  And what is worse, after they revealed it, Barry didn't even take a minute to take Iris aside and talk to her about it privately even after the reveal.  He left without a single word to her.  Double Ugh.

I thought the meta of the week was kinda lame.  Most of the metas powers have something to do with what they were doing during the particle accelerator explosion or how they lived.  What the hell could she have been doing that gave her air compression powers? 

Also i know it is the nature of the show for Barry to fight meta criminals, but it would be nice once in awhile to get a glimpse of a non-evil person who got powers from the explosion.  Maybe someone who is actually trying to use their powers for good but inadvertently makes things worse.  That would kinda funny for team Flash to be chasing a meta they think is a master criminal only to find that the meta was in their own way trying to be helpful but ended up leaving chaos on their wake.

Cicada is nicely creepy.  I hope his motivation isn't just "I am eeevil and want to kill!"  but something more relatable that we can get behind.

Agree that there seems to be something going on with Jesse L Martin.  He sat most of last episode didn't he? 

Finally, I am coming to the conclusion that Captain Singh is just not good at his job.  All he's good at is yelling at Barry.

[Trini]

Re-watch thoughts:

This episode made me go look up the director, because they were several shots, camera angles, etc. that the show hasn't usually used. (The director used to be the show's cinematographer/dir. of photography.) Especially the nearly wordless intro of Cicada, and the Joe/Barry scene that transitioned to the Joe/Cecile scene.

While I was glad to see Iris "Screw the Future" West-Allen in effect, I too would have have liked a scene with just her and Barry -and maybe even Nora- when she finds out he doesn't return. Also a scene with more of her revealing and processing her feelings about that. But like someone else mentioned, they most likely did it so they didn't have to do 2 reveal scenes. (On the other hand, they could have cut some of the fluff subplot with Cisco/Caitlin/Ralph.)

But speaking of that scene, it looks like they really are making an effort to get out of STAR Labs more. Keep it up, show!

Look, I realize that Barry/Nora is the shiny new toy for this season, and I did like their scenes, but we needed some Barry/Iris scenes, too. Bring back the Loft!

They keep dropping little clues about Iris and Nora's relationship in the future, so hopefully, this is leading up to a payoff soon; but with these writers, there's no guarantee. ::sigh::

I'm assuming Joe is on 'maternity' leave. If Joe is still sitting for a third episode in a row, then I'll be worried about Jesse L. Martin.

Glad we got to see more of Cecile and her feelings, but yeah, that subplot was somewhat irrelevant. I think they could have tied it closer to Barry/Iris, with them being new parents to Nora.

So I'm taking it as canon that Iris has all of Barry's passwords, and Singh turns a blind eye to Iris using CCPD resources (which would totally be against any company's policy) because he knows she works with The Flash (*ahem* Barry - because HE KNOWS) to help catch meta criminals. And he knows something's up with Barry's "intern", but again, he allows it because apparently Central City doesn't have the budget for more staff. Which is understandable, they probably have to spend a lot to clean up after all the metahuman mayhem that occurs on a regular basis!

The Caitlin/Cisco scene is Jitters was a good one for their friendship, but I also read it as a set up for a potential romance. Will try to expand on that in the Relationships thread.

The intro of Cicada was good, but how are they going to stretch this out for the whole(?) season with the team encountering him already in episode 2? The show does not have a good track record when it comes to season-long villains. Helbing mentioned a different structure for this season; I hope it works better than the last few.

[Trini]

58 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Also i know it is the nature of the show for Barry to fight meta criminals, but it would be nice once in awhile to get a glimpse of a non-evil person who got powers from the explosion.  Maybe someone who is actually trying to use their powers for good but inadvertently makes things worse.  That would kinda funny for team Flash to be chasing a meta they think is a master criminal only to find that the meta was in their own way trying to be helpful but ended up leaving chaos on their wake.

Well, there was Melting Point last year. But I agree with you. It might be nice to meet some metas who are heroic (or maybe even anti-heroes?) but aren't specifically introduced to join the Team.

[Trini]

20 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Ah, The Flash. Where only the writing staff can screw up the timeline more than Barry Allen can.

I mean, I know some writers haven't been with the show since the beginning, and no one can remember every detail, but there should be at least one person in charge of continuity, right??

But besides the age/grade being wrong, young Barry idolizing Joe when he first came to live with the Wests seemed wrong too. Barry eventually looked up to Joe as a father figure, but, as noted in the first season, he was angry that Joe was (supposedly) keeping him away from his father, and Joe still believed Henry was a murderer up until 5 years ago.

---

Re: the timeline: Nora definitely shouldn't be here, but it's not necessarily detrimental to Team Flash, etc. The person who has the most to lose is Nora herself, plus screwing up her own timeline. I mean time travelling back to before you were born is pretty dangerous, since you could change the circumstances of your conception, etc. and end up "Marty McFlying" yourself out of existence. They haven't done it yet, but it seems obvious that Barry needs to have a sit-down with Nora about how his Flashpoint screwed things up.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Trini

[Spaceman Spiff]

18 hours ago, Quark said:

Cicada is already a more sympathetic villain than The Thinker ever was. I liked how he hesitated when he heard Barry's daughter say "Dad".

I don't know. I got too much of a Batman V Superman from that.

Nora: "...DAD!"

Cicada: "Why did you say that name?"

Nora: ".....?"

Cicada: "Why did you say that name?"

Nora: "He's my dad."

Cicada: *backs away slowly*

I mean did this bad guy know that Gridlock and Block (was that her name?) weren't parents? I must be one of the few who really isn't feeling the new villain. He steals meta's powers and then kills them. Last season we had Devoe, who stole meta's powers and then killed them (granted he was able to use the stolen powers, but same old same old). I guess I am tired of watching all the guest meta's killed off.

I could care less about Cecille and Joe's story. For some reason I can suspend disbelief watching a show and thinking a man can run as fast as Barry or Vibe like Cisco or stretch like Ralph, but there is no way I can believe that a new born baby can form a coherent thought that specifically says "I am hungry." Cecille's powers were always said to be telepathic, reading someones mind, so to me, a new born mind would be just a jumble. It doesn't know words, it can't form sentences. Plus she has a grown daughter and knows what it means and how to be, a parent.

I'm ok with Ralph, he never bothered me, and I am enjoying Nora so far.

[Quark]

3 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I don't know. I got too much of a Batman V Superman from that.

Nora: "...DAD!"

Cicada: "Why did you say that name?"

Nora: ".....?"

Cicada: "Why did you say that name?"

Nora: "He's my dad."

Cicada: *backs away slowly*

I mean did this bad guy know that Gridlock and Block (was that her name?) weren't parents? I must be one of the few who really isn't feeling the new villain. He steals meta's powers and then kills them. Last season we had Devoe, who stole meta's powers and then killed them (granted he was able to use the stolen powers, but same old same old). I guess I am tired of watching all the guest meta's killed off.

I could care less about Cecille and Joe's story. For some reason I can suspend disbelief watching a show and thinking a man can run as fast as Barry or Vibe like Cisco or stretch like Ralph, but there is no way I can believe that a new born baby can form a coherent thought that specifically says "I am hungry." Cecille's powers were always said to be telepathic, reading someones mind, so to me, a new born mind would be just a jumble. It doesn't know words, it can't form sentences. Plus she has a grown daughter and knows what it means and how to be, a parent.

I'm ok with Ralph, he never bothered me, and I am enjoying Nora so far.

Who knows if Cicada would have reacted differently if someone had shouted Dad or Mum at Gridlock and Block respectively? If not, I suppose the difference between them and The Flash is that The Flash tries to do what is right, whilst the others do what's right for them.

Regarding Cecile, maybe she can sense the baby's intention rather than any actual thought, if that makes sense.

[Cthulhudrew]

"Not having a satellite is totally killing us. We're completely blind to trying to find metas anywhere in Central City without it!" bemoaned the Scarlet Speedster, heedless of the fact that he has performed complete super-speed searches of the entire city in seconds during the course of many prior episodes.

[Trini]

Ralph's 27 steps list, not sure if it matches the prop in the episode:

[JapMo]

On 10/16/2018 at 8:12 PM, ursula said:

OK did anyone notice that Joe never left that coach? It got to a point that I'm wondering if Jesse Martin is injured in a way and couldn't shoot a scene standing. 

I absolutely thought the same thing.  

[AnimeMania]

On 10/17/2018 at 9:59 PM, phoenics said:

Here's the thing - Barry was 100% right to tell Iris about Savitar privately.  Just like Nora was kinda right to tell Barry about his disappearance.  But it was wrong not to tell Iris privately.  Joe could have been told privately as well - but Caitlin and Cisco don't register on the same scale or level of importance.  Sorry - they simply don't.

I don't think so, Barry has disappeared before and who worked the hardest to get him back, Cisco. This disappearance might be easily solved be Cisco putting a tracker in Barry's suit or having something of Barry's to vibe on. They change the future all the time, they have a few years to change this one. Iris could easily change the future by having an abortion, that will teach Nora to roll her eyes at Iris.

Edited October 19, 2018 by AnimeMania
Add abortion joke.

[BeautifulFlower]

Was the scene where Caitlin said Nora is fine and doesn't need an ibuprofen necessary? She didn't need a checkup as Barry clearly saw she was fine. 

[Terrafamilia]

I'm not feeling the new supersuit. It makes his neck look real skinny.

When I first heard it and how it was used I thought schway was derived from feng shui.

[phoenics]

6 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I don't think so, Barry has disappeared before and who worked the hardest to get him back, Cisco. This disappearance might be easily solved be Cisco putting a tracker in Barry's suit or having something of Barry's to vibe on. They change the future all the time, they have a few years to change this one. Iris could easily change the future by having an abortion, that will teach Nora to roll her eyes at Iris.

I'm talking about family.  There is no way in hell a husband would tell coworkers something that important at the same time they tell their wife.  This isn't to say that Cisco and Cait aren't very smart and could likely help change the future - but this is about whether Barry should have made sure to tell Iris ALONE first (she was going to lose a husband, best friend since age 8 AND the flash, whereas Cisco/Cait were losing a friend/flash).  

I wasn't arguing the point you made - it's irrelevant to my point.  No one said Barry shouldn't have told them eventually - just that he should have told his wife first, since not only was she finding out Barry didn't come back, she was finding out she was going to be raising their daughter all by herself.

All I know is that the writers better be planning a time for Iris to be more than the "Strong Black Superwoman" by having her process all of this and be allowed to be upset about it (especially since they allowed Caitlin to be upset about her dad and comforted by Cisco - the news to Iris was no less devastating).  It would be horrible storytelling to leave it as "Iris is tough" the way Barry framed it.  That's HORRIBLE and I'll say it - racially problematic storytelling and empirically proven to be harmful to black women who get labeled as such constantly.

[jmonique]

I'm going to follow up all this thoughtful commentary with about as deep as I can get on a Friday night:
I still hate Barry's new costume. It makes him look like a cartoon come to life, while the previous costumes looked more functional.

[AnimeMania]

3 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

When I first heard it and how it was used I thought schway was derived from feng shui.

I thought it might be derived from someone saying "no way" and the other person saying "yes way' which got shorten to schway.

[jmonique]

17 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

IWhen I first heard it and how it was used I thought schway was derived from feng shui.

 

14 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I thought it might be derived from someone saying "no way" and the other person saying "yes way' which got shorten to schway.

The Uncanny Book Club explored the etymology of 'schway' a few years ago

Edited October 20, 2018 by jmonique

[HeShallBMySquishy]

RE: Singh's hair. I could not believe what I was seeing! Patrick Sabongui is a very handsome man (I think he's drool-worthy) but that whatever on his head did not do him any favours. Ehh, that's all I got for now.

[Trini]

7 hours ago, HeShallBMySquishy said:

RE: Singh's hair. I could not believe what I was seeing! Patrick Sabongui is a very handsome man (I think he's drool-worthy) but that whatever on his head did not do him any favours. Ehh, that's all I got for now.

I've been trying to find any recent, candid photos of him to see if that's his actual hair or not; but no luck so far. If it's a piece, that's weird, because Singh has had short hair on the show before.

[North of Eden]

Not feeling this episode at all for several  reasons and it doesn’t bode well for  the overall season.

First why does every season have to introduce a new speedster? Why can’t The Flash stand on his own without another one. It’s the same formula…new speedster arrives, is a novice and Barry must train and shape them…it tired people. (Nora is drop dead gorgeous but even that’s not enough for me to welcome her)

Second was Cisco and Caitlin…two characters I love are saddled in subplot basement with Elongated Man who I despise. He’s out of place and throws the whole dynamic of the team off. When he died last year I was so happy to be rid of him and then he’s back. There is too many characters now…Digby, Joe’s Wife and the baby, even Captain Singh seems to be in every episode now and they all feel extraneous to the core group and somewhere ahead lies another Alternate Wells no doubt.

Plus its early yet but the nice guy from American Pie is the villain? We’ll see if he can pull it off.

And finally…I just want more Killer Frost. I love the character and it gives Danielle Panabaker something to do.

[DigitalCount]

Re: Iris not being able to react separately to the Barry news, I can't help but remember the scene on Arrow between Laurel and Quentin where she admits that

 

William's existence

bugs her more than everything else, more than a decade after the fact, when she already knew Oliver had cheated on her and was no longer in a relationship with him. It humanized her, it was some of KC's best acting, and I was fully in the corner of a character I despised.

And wouldn't you know, there's a character on this show analogous to Quentin. Maybe they could have a scene where they talk about stuff?

(Spoiler because I know not everyone watches Arrow)

 

(Also, apologies to the mods if this doesn't have enough content regarding this episode; I guess I'm trying to say that I agree that Iris should have been able to react to that more/individually, especially since she also already feels alienated by her future daughter. So she ends up with a weird limbo-y Schrodinger's family--she has a husband and daughter, but also she kind of doesn't.)

Edited October 23, 2018 by DigitalCount
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