S01.E05: The Game Of Your Life

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

 

We had better not learn that Gina met Gary at a breast cancer support group. 

We need to see Jon’s other friends, the ones he knew before he got stuck in an elevator. Not just his funeral-attending friends. The guys he went to college with, etc. Otherwise, he’s just the ideal stalker. 

Jon may not have had other friends.  His schtick of spouting out Hallmark-worthy cliches might have been off-putting and these three guys were the only ones who ate it up.

Sorry, I'm being cynical.  But Jon is sort of like Gary in that he's entertaining to watch, but would be annoying as hell to actually have in your life.  Except, well, Jon isn't as entertaining to watch.  

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

I think that is where the crux of my dissatisfaction with the show comes from.  In the pilot the hook was the suicide and the relationship between these men.  But so far they have not grounded those relationships at all.  Instead they have spent too much time on the affair, Eddie's F'ed up marriage, and Maggie's cancer.  It feels like we are getting a lot of story but none of it is actually satisfying. 

I hate to bring up This Is Us because I really don't think the shows are that similar, but one thing that show has done well is how it uses flashbacks so effectively to inform a lot of the present day action.  This show could stand to give a little more attention to that, especially since it they are trying to sell us on the idea that is was Jon that was the glue to a lot of them.  As it is, it is all telling and no showing, which is bad in written work and even worse in a visual media.  If you are going to build the foundation on the relationships on a dead guy then you got to give us something of that guy.  Right now, his absence, imo, is like the elephant in the room re: the plot. 

8

Word.  And, despite my claiming to be sick of flashbacks, I'd be fine with them if they are done well (which they have been in this show, for the most part...unless that one flashback with Delilah and Jon was to show us that Jon was a terrible husband who ignored his wife.   If it was, they failed).  But, yes, there is a lot going on in this show I don't want to see and I resent it because there are other things I would like to see.  And that is what is so frustrating here.  This show could be amazing, but it keeps putting obstacles up for itself which aren't even necessary.

[mythoughtis]

There was a flashback of Jon embarrassing his father in law implying he was drunk when he wasn’t drinking. He was in the early stages of dementia. 

[debraran]

I would like to see more of Jon, I hope there are more flashbacks to highlight his talent and relationship with his wife and kids. "Maybe" they will show his thoughts up to that day, but I don't want a clue game.

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

There was a flashback of Jon embarrassing his father in law implying he was drunk when he wasn’t drinking. He was in the early stages of dementia. 

I don't remember the scene that vividly, so I may be off base, but the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

[Eeksquire]

Quote

Otherwise, he’s just the ideal stalker.

That made me laugh immoderately, which I needed today. Thank you for that.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Eeksquire
Edited to swap the spoiler tag for the quote one.  Man, it's been a long day.

[HazelEyes4325]

3 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

There was a flashback of Jon embarrassing his father in law implying he was drunk when he wasn’t drinking. He was in the early stages of dementia. 

I don't recall Jon implying his FIL was drunk.  I remember him snapping at him impatiently and Delilah saying that Jon embarrassed him.  If anything, it showed that Jon was under stress, not that he was uncaring or just a general jerk.

[mythoughtis]

3 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I don't recall Jon implying his FIL was drunk.  I remember him snapping at him impatiently and Delilah saying that Jon embarrassed him.  If anything, it showed that Jon was under stress, not that he was uncaring or just a general jerk.

Yes- that is the scene I meant. Jon said he’d been drinking but he hadn’t.  I think we are going to eventually see that Jon wasn’t aa perfect as his friends seem to think. 

[HazelEyes4325]

1 minute ago, mythoughtis said:

Yes- that is the scene I meant. Jon said he’d been drinking but he hadn’t.  I think we are going to eventually see that Jon wasn’t aa perfect as his friends seem to think. 

Replying in the 1.4 thread.

[KnoxForPres]

6 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Jon may not have had other friends.  His schtick of spouting out Hallmark-worthy cliches might have been off-putting and these three guys were the only ones who ate it up.

Sorry, I'm being cynical.  But Jon is sort of like Gary in that he's entertaining to watch, but would be annoying as hell to actually have in your life.  Except, well, Jon isn't as entertaining to watch.  

Word.  And, despite my claiming to be sick of flashbacks, I'd be fine with them if they are done well (which they have been in this show, for the most part...unless that one flashback with Delilah and Jon was to show us that Jon was a terrible husband who ignored his wife.   If it was, they failed).  But, yes, there is a lot going on in this show I don't want to see and I resent it because there are other things I would like to see.  And that is what is so frustrating here.  This show could be amazing, but it keeps putting obstacles up for itself which aren't even necessary.

Bolded got a legit laugh for me - it’s so true.

I’d like this show a lot more sans the cutesy. I’d prefer the my GPS says 38 minutes scene to play out him saying “it’s cool- the show will last an hour and you’ll see most and be here when it’s done”  as opposed to witty ole Edster getting the ladies riled about about school shenganigans. 

Id like Maggie and Gary less adorable and then maybe I’d believe they even like each other and have interest. As it stands, she’s the equivalent of D’Onofrio in Criminal Inent with her mad psychology skills to read and call every scene spot on.  Grape soda?  Ahhh, I see what you’re doing here Gary. And I hate you for it until I quickly don’t  

Just let the actors play it straight with realistic writing. Which they do with Rome so they CAN but they often give in to tropes and it makes me not like as much as I want to. 

This is random as hell but I’ve never had a kid and minimal babysitting experience and I knew little Theo was saying “put my tree on” when he lifted his arms up. 

As said here and I cannot co-sign enough Delilah is the weakest link. I wish I had a friend who watched it so we could each do “Delilah” faces because it’s a I have a migraine on the verge of tears nearly 98% look. She’s so one note and I feel the writers want us to have a lot of investment. They hired the wrong actress. 

Now with all that bitching you’ll say why watch this Knox?  Well, because I like the bones of this show. There’s good stuff here and I by no means hate it just wish they’d cut the eye roll worthy scenes and show us real life. And damn it more Regina.

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, KnoxForPres said:

As said here and I cannot co-sign enough Delilah is the weakest link. I wish I had a friend who watched it so we could each do “Delilah” faces because it’s a I have a migraine on the verge of tears nearly 98% look. She’s so one note and I feel the writers want us to have a lot of investment. They hired the wrong actress. 

Now with all that bitching you’ll say why watch this Knox?  Well, because I like the bones of this show. There’s good stuff here and I by no means hate it just wish they’d cut the eye roll worthy scenes and show us real life. And damn it more Regina.

2

Just know that there are many of us who do "Delilah" faces while watching.  We may not be physically with you, but you are not alone.

And yes...more Regina!

[DFWGina]

I just got caught up on a few episodes that were on the backburner in favor of other more interesting shows...

I want to know more of the intrigue and mystery around the suicide.  I want to know what his assistant knows.  

Questions from this episode:  

What grown woman uses a pregnancy test at another grown woman’s house and doesn’t fully obscure it in the trash.   If you did take the test at a friend’s house (doubtful), you would for sure hide it at the bottom of the trash can or take it with you in the little CVS bag that it came in.  

I know Eddie is the “wrongdoer” in the marriage but why would he move out when he is admittedly the primary caregiver for their son?   Catherine can’t quit her job nor can she pull back overnight from work in process.   She also can’t find a nanny overnight either.  Eddie should stay, take care of the  kid and Catherine move out or into the spare bedroom.  Maybe Eddie moves into the spare bedroom instead.  But no way does Eddie move out away from the son.

I am part of a couple who decided not to have kids and very happy with the decision.  It is nice to see “us” on tv as many of you have mentioned upthread.

I do not care if Maggie takes treatment or not. I just don’t care that much about her and I feel like she was reckless as a therapist to have Rome quit his job.

[Lady Calypso]

40 minutes ago, DFWGina said:

What grown woman uses a pregnancy test at another grown woman’s house and doesn’t fully obscure it in the trash.   If you did take the test at a friend’s house (doubtful), you would for sure hide it at the bottom of the trash can or take it with you in the little CVS bag that it came in.  

Well, Delilah isn't known for being smart or selfless here! Seriously, though, it's no surprise that Delilah wasn't thinking of other people when she took the test at Regina's. Not that Regina was very smart either in not going into the bathroom to make sure the test was hidden. 

41 minutes ago, DFWGina said:

I know Eddie is the “wrongdoer” in the marriage but why would he move out when he is admittedly the primary caregiver for their son?   Catherine can’t quit her job nor can she pull back overnight from work in process.   She also can’t find a nanny overnight either.  Eddie should stay, take care of the  kid and Catherine move out or into the spare bedroom.  Maybe Eddie moves into the spare bedroom instead.  But no way does Eddie move out away from the son.

Well, I think this was a Catch-22 situation for Katherine. Eddie's the wrongdoer for sure. He cheated and fell in love with another woman. He also has his other issues and Katherine doesn't feel like she should move out for his wrongdoings (and she shouldn't). Like she told Eddie, she can't stand being around him anymore and I think that Theo would catch on to his parents fighting, something that neither of them wanted. There's no winning solution here for anyone in that family. Katherine can't take care of Theo on her own so she has to hire a nanny. She can't keep relying on Eddie, especially if they decide to go through with a divorce. They need to start thinking about solutions for both of them and Katherine is still in an anger phase with Eddie, so it's actually the worst environment for all three of them to be in. 

Eddie moving into the spare bedroom still doesn't solve the problem where Katherine can't stand to be around Eddie. Katherine shouldn't move out because Eddie cheated. That still doesn't solve that much. Why should Katherine lose primary custody of Theo because of Eddie's choices? Just because Eddie was a stay at home dad, it doesn't mean that Katherine should lose here. Katherine CAN hire a nanny to help out. I also assume, once Eddie finds a job and gets a place, he'll have some custody of Theo. It didn't seem like Katherine was going to shut Eddie out of Theo's life forever. 

Eddie made his bed when he cheated on Katherine with Delilah. Don't forget that, in the pilot, he was ready to leave Katherine and, by extension, Theo. What was going to happen there? It would be this same outcome...except Delilah was likely not leaving Jon if he didn't kill himself, and Eddie would be right where he is now, except in a worse place since him and Katherine would be in a worse spot (Eddie was less willing to work things out with Katherine in the pilot). 

[KnoxForPres]

59 minutes ago, DFWGina said:

I just got caught up on a few episodes that were on the backburner in favor of other more interesting shows...

I want to know more of the intrigue and mystery around the suicide.  I want to know what his assistant knows.  

Questions from this episode:  

What grown woman uses a pregnancy test at another grown woman’s house and doesn’t fully obscure it in the trash.   If you did take the test at a friend’s house (doubtful), you would for sure hide it at the bottom of the trash can or take it with you in the little CVS bag that it came in.  

I know Eddie is the “wrongdoer” in the marriage but why would he move out when he is admittedly the primary caregiver for their son?   Catherine can’t quit her job nor can she pull back overnight from work in process.   She also can’t find a nanny overnight either.  Eddie should stay, take care of the  kid and Catherine move out or into the spare bedroom.  Maybe Eddie moves into the spare bedroom instead.  But no way does Eddie move out away from the son.

I am part of a couple who decided not to have kids and very happy with the decision.  It is nice to see “us” on tv as many of you have mentioned upthread.

I do not care if Maggie takes treatment or not. I just don’t care that much about her and I feel like she was reckless as a therapist to have Rome quit his job.

Yes!  think this through. I’m 43, 2 kids and recently widowed. I am having a known affair with a known friend.  I miss a period or two. I call a good friend involved in of all of the above and say “can I take the test there and even if it’s negative I need to make this known”.  None hits litmus test. It just continues the poor writing. 

Edited October 30, 2018 by KnoxForPres

[Guest]

6 hours ago, DFWGina said:

I know Eddie is the “wrongdoer” in the marriage but why would he move out when he is admittedly the primary caregiver for their son?   Catherine can’t quit her job nor can she pull back overnight from work in process.   She also can’t find a nanny overnight either.  Eddie should stay, take care of the  kid and Catherine move out or into the spare bedroom.  Maybe Eddie moves into the spare bedroom instead.  But no way does Eddie move out away from the son.

The way the characters describe Katherine's work and what we have seen do not match. When Eddie is on the phone with Delilah in the first episode he says Katherine will be home in exactly 5 hours and twentyish minutes. This was before Jon killed himself around noon. She was also supposed to pick up Theo that day. Since then she seems to be very involved in Theo's life. That really isn't consistent with someone who works so much that they cannot be the primary caregiver. She just needs to arrange for someone to watch him for a few hours after school. 

[debraran]

6 hours ago, DFWGina said:

I just got caught up on a few episodes that were on the backburner in favor of other more interesting shows...

I want to know more of the intrigue and mystery around the suicide.  I want to know what his assistant knows.  

Questions from this episode:  

What grown woman uses a pregnancy test at another grown woman’s house and doesn’t fully obscure it in the trash.   If you did take the test at a friend’s house (doubtful), you would for sure hide it at the bottom of the trash can or take it with you in the little CVS bag that it came in.  

I know Eddie is the “wrongdoer” in the marriage but why would he move out when he is admittedly the primary caregiver for their son?   Catherine can’t quit her job nor can she pull back overnight from work in process.   She also can’t find a nanny overnight either.  Eddie should stay, take care of the  kid and Catherine move out or into the spare bedroom.  Maybe Eddie moves into the spare bedroom instead.  But no way does Eddie move out away from the son.

I am part of a couple who decided not to have kids and very happy with the decision.  It is nice to see “us” on tv as many of you have mentioned upthread.

I do not care if Maggie takes treatment or not. I just don’t care that much about her and I feel like she was reckless as a therapist to have Rome quit his job.

I made this point also, re the test. It frustrates the hell out of me. It's just so dumb, a female writer wrote this, doubt it. "Unless" it's another twist and even with Delilah rubbing her belly, that was a touch of indigestion. That would bring the baby into the relationship with Romy and his wife and being childless and then being pregnant but who knows. If that's it, a more intelligent script would be Romy finding it when throwing out a razor (not sticking out of pail) and going through the gamut of emotions while thinking about alternatives.

I also agree, the first shows were refreshingly honest, Eddie was still 'in lust" and when caught, suddenly wants to "make it work".  I would kick him out too, he thought, you could see it on his face, that the play made a dent, we were good together, etc.  I've seen that before, the bandaid encounters that feel more to the cheater than the one cheated on. I thought Eddie did that well.

I wonder, re Maggie, since she's human, if her pushing Rome to quit was more about her and her diagnosis. Sometimes things blur.

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, Delilah isn't known for being smart or selfless here! Seriously, though, it's no surprise that Delilah wasn't thinking of other people when she took the test at Regina's. Not that Regina was very smart either in not going into the bathroom to make sure the test was hidden.

I don't care how good my friendship is - I'm not touching the pee stick.

I think the only reason they set it up this way is so there could be an amusing find (and to be fair, the moment with Gary was pretty funny). TV shows have people finding women's secret pregnancy tests all the time. It's like no woman knows how to take the trash out so she won't be discovered.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 10/26/2018 at 7:17 AM, Lady Calypso said:

She is 1000000000% going to change her mind and decide to FIGHT. Because why? Because of the POWER OF LOVE....or something.

I've had this stuck in my head since I read your post:

[DearEvette]

12 hours ago, KnoxForPres said:

Id like Maggie and Gary less adorable and then maybe I’d believe they even like each other and have interest. As it stands, she’s the equivalent of D’Onofrio in Criminal Inent with her mad psychology skills to read and call every scene spot on.  Grape soda?  Ahhh, I see what you’re doing here Gary. And I hate you for it until I quickly don’t 

Ha!  This is how I feel exactly. Except for the 'adorable' part, the stuff with them is what I call 'precious'. 

 

12 hours ago, KnoxForPres said:

Now with all that bitching you’ll say why watch this Knox?  Well, because I like the bones of this show. There’s good stuff here and I by no means hate it just wish they’d cut the eye roll worthy scenes and show us real life. And damn it more Regina.

Again, I agree.  There is something there with this show they just have to figure out how to jettison the stuff that just feels like sizzle and give us some steak.  Which is a reference to food, Which brings me to Regina, because I think it is remarkable that the character who has had the least development of every other single person on the show manages to stand out enough that I want to see more of her.  Credit to the actress.

[HazelEyes4325]

12 hours ago, DFWGina said:

What grown woman uses a pregnancy test at another grown woman’s house and doesn’t fully obscure it in the trash.   If you did take the test at a friend’s house (doubtful), you would for sure hide it at the bottom of the trash can or take it with you in the little CVS bag that it came in.  

 

I said it once and I'll say it again....Friends did this far more effectively.

12 hours ago, DFWGina said:

I know Eddie is the “wrongdoer” in the marriage but why would he move out when he is admittedly the primary caregiver for their son?   Catherine can’t quit her job nor can she pull back overnight from work in process.   She also can’t find a nanny overnight either.  Eddie should stay, take care of the  kid and Catherine move out or into the spare bedroom.  Maybe Eddie moves into the spare bedroom instead.  But no way does Eddie move out away from the son.

1

I was with you up to the bolded part...because Eddie was all ready to leave his son in the 1st episode.  Now, keep in mind that this is Eddie.  I don't think Eddie has even mastered object permanence yet, something most people do when they are about 8 or 9 months old (yeah, I looked it up..)  He doesn't recognize anyone's needs but his own and he sees no repercussions to any of his actions UNTIL it is is too late.  I don't think Eddie realized that he was "losing" (not really, but you know what I mean) Theo until the moment he sat down at the table to talk to him with Katherine. 

Now, does it make sense that Eddie would move out?  Well, it makes more sense than going to someone else's house to take a pregnancy test and, when it was positive, leaving it right on the top of someone else's trash can so that it can easily be found by yet another person.  (The eye-rolling is constant, people!)

6 hours ago, Dani said:

The way the characters describe Katherine's work and what we have seen do not match. When Eddie is on the phone with Delilah in the first episode he says Katherine will be home in exactly 5 hours and twentyish minutes. This was before Jon killed himself around noon. She was also supposed to pick up Theo that day. Since then she seems to be very involved in Theo's life. That really isn't consistent with someone who works so much that they cannot be the primary caregiver. She just needs to arrange for someone to watch him for a few hours after school. 

DJ Nash has said that they intentionally made Katherine unlikable in the first episode so that people "wouldn't hate Eddie so much."  The article about this is linked in the media thread.  So, you know, more stellar writing.

12 hours ago, KnoxForPres said:

Yes!  think this through. I’m 43, 2 kids and recently widowed. I am having a known affair with a known friend.  I miss a period or two. I call a good friend involved in of all of the above and say “can I take the test there and even if it’s negative I need to make this known”.  None hits litmus test. It just continues the poor writing. 

So, I have to be honest...I read this before I was completely awake and I'm thinking, "Wow, you are actually admitting this in a discussion forum with strangers?  Really?"  It took me more than a few minutes to realize that you were talking about Delilah.  I need more sleep.

[Guest]

I think Eddie will have to get a job soon, so he won’t necessarily be the primary parent for long. And whatever job he gets will likely not be able to afford that huge house. So maybe short term, him staying would have made sense. But long term, the result is likely the same.

[DFWGina]

1 hour ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

 

I was with you up to the bolded part...because Eddie was all ready to leave his son in the 1st episode.  Now, keep in mind that this is Eddie.  I don't think Eddie has even mastered object permanence yet, something most people do when they are about 8 or 9 months old (yeah, I looked it up..)  He doesn't recognize anyone's needs but his own and he sees no repercussions to any of his actions UNTIL it is is too late.  I don't think Eddie realized that he was "losing" (not really, but you know what I mean) Theo until the moment he sat down at the table to talk to him with Katherine. 

Good point - I had forgotten that part from episode 1.

[DearEvette]

2 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

 

15 hours ago, DFWGina said:

I know Eddie is the “wrongdoer” in the marriage but why would he move out when he is admittedly the primary caregiver for their son?   Catherine can’t quit her job nor can she pull back overnight from work in process.   She also can’t find a nanny overnight either.  Eddie should stay, take care of the  kid and Catherine move out or into the spare bedroom.  Maybe Eddie moves into the spare bedroom instead.  But no way does Eddie move out away from the son.

1

I was with you up to the bolded part...because Eddie was all ready to leave his son in the 1st episode.  Now, keep in mind that this is Eddie.  I don't think Eddie has even mastered object permanence yet, something most people do when they are about 8 or 9 months old (yeah, I looked it up..)  He doesn't recognize anyone's needs but his own and he sees no repercussions to any of his actions UNTIL it is is too late.  I don't think Eddie realized that he was "losing" (not really, but you know what I mean) Theo until the moment he sat down at the table to talk to him with Katherine. 

Ok.  I got a huge giggle out of the bolded part.  LOL.

My overall feeling is that Eddie and Katherine are being retconned a little from the pilot.  Both are being warmed up a little because I think a super bitchy Katherine and a ready to abandon an adorable child Eddie on top of having an affair with his BFFs wife would have come across as just too unlikeable.

I also think Eddie is a reluctant primary child giver.   My hot take about Eddie's character is that he is one of those people who feels like he should be now and forever a successful rock musician.  His band broke up so now he is just biding his time before that magical next big break happens by giving lesson and being the stay at home parent.  So far the show has not given any indication that Eddie staying home is the result of a reasoned conversation  between him and Katherine over their philosophy in child rearing and deciding it would be best for one to stay home, but rather he couldn't or wouldn't get a day job because of his muse and he fell into it because he wasn't doing anything else.  That might be harsh, but so far that is how Eddie is coming off to me.

Edited October 30, 2018 by DearEvette

[HazelEyes4325]

2 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Ok.  I got a huge giggle out of the bolded part.  LOL.

My overall feeling is that Eddie and Katherine are being retconned a little from the pilot.  Both are being warmed up a little because I think a super bitchy Katherine and a ready to abandon an adorable child Eddie on top of having an affair with his BFFs wife would have come across as just too unlikeable.

I also think Eddie is a reluctant primary child giver.   My hot take about Eddie's character is that he is one of those people who feels like he should be now and forever a successful rock musician.  His band broke up so now he is just biding his time before that magical next big break happens by giving lesson and being the stay at home parent.  So far the show has not given any indication that Eddie staying home is the result of a reasoned conversation  between him and Katherine over their philosophy in child rearing and deciding it would be best for one to stay home, but rather he couldn't or wouldn't get a day job because of his muse and he fell into it because he wasn't doing anything else.  That might be harsh, but so far that is how Eddie is coming off to me.

Well, I don't know if retcon is quite the right word, but they did a bait and switch with Katherine in the pilot in order to make Eddie look better.  Nash has said as much.

As for Eddie as a caregiver--I agree and disagree with you.  I 100% believe that Eddie loves Theo immensely and I do not believe that he resents being the primary caregiver.  However, I also agree that he thinks his next big break is around the corner.  Back in the first episode, he said he was "working on his craft" and either Jon or Gary corrected him and said he was just teaching guitar lessons.  Eddie is unable to see the whole picture with anything and, because of that, I believe he thinks that being Theo's caregiver AND getting ready for his comeback are things that can be done at the same time.

[possibilities]

If I was Katherine, I would not be moving out and disrupting my entire life and losing my home and daily contact with my child, in order to give Eddie the house and primary custody of our child, with no disruption to his life whatsoever. Eddie cheated on her and was going to leave her a week ago before his affair partner's husband killed himself, he doesn't get to have Katherine just gracefully bow out and basically give him everything he wants, including a freaking house and child support and alimony and freedom and never have to face himself or take any responsibility whatsoever or suffer any consequences whatsoever.

I think they should get joint custody of Theo, and she should pay some child support, but no way does she owe him the house along with that.

[HazelEyes4325]

17 minutes ago, possibilities said:

If I was Katherine, I would not be moving out and disrupting my entire life and losing my home and daily contact with my child, in order to give Eddie the house and primary custody of our child, with no disruption to his life whatsoever. Eddie cheated on her and was going to leave her a week ago before his affair partner's husband killed himself, he doesn't get to have Katherine just gracefully bow out and basically give him everything he wants, including a freaking house and child support and alimony and freedom and never have to face himself or take any responsibility whatsoever or suffer any consequences whatsoever.

I think they should get joint custody of Theo, and she should pay some child support, but no way does she owe him the house along with that.

 

There is another element to all this.  It seems that this marriage is headed for divorce and Katherine is a lawyer.  She does not practice family law (it seemed more like she practiced corporate law?) but she knows how these things work.  For her to leave the home would put her at a disadvantage when it came to working out the custody details in a divorce.  Honestly, Eddie leaving the house also puts him at a disadvantage, but my guess that he's already so far behind the eight ball thanks to committing adultery and not having a regular job that it wouldn't hit him as hard (if there is a lawyer reading this, please let me know if I'm off base). 

Anecdotally, I had a manager who lived for *four years* with her estranged husband in their basement because both of their lawyers told them that leaving the home would hurt them in terms of custody and so both of them refused to leave.

I'm also going to make a wild guess that the path for these two characters will not be them amicably going their separate ways.  I'm not saying that things are going to be hostile--but they might--or that they will reconcile--but they might.  Katherine's only tie to the main part of this show is through Eddie.  If they uncouple quickly, there is no reason to even keep her in the show.  Grace Park comes to this show with enough of a fan following that getting rid of her character, or even treating her character badly, may have an impact on the already fragile ratings.  David Giuntoli is in the same position.  Frankly, this show can't really afford to do anything too detrimental to either of their characters (or James Roday's).  Because of that, I think the Katherine/Eddie dance will go on for a while.  

(Also, can I just say that Szostak does NOT come with the fan following...just pointing that out...)

Edited October 30, 2018 by HazelEyes4325

[Guest]

3 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

DJ Nash has said that they intentionally made Katherine unlikable in the first episode so that people "wouldn't hate Eddie so much."  The article about this is linked in the media thread.  So, you know, more stellar writing.

I worded my post poorly I actually meant despite people saying Katherine works a lot we've consistently seen the opposite even in the pilot. If Eddie and Delilah were talking at 11am ( they were going to meet at noon) then Katherine was supposed to pick up Theo and be home by 5. She works from home, is at friday night dinners, and picks up Theo regularly. That kind of schedule is not consistent with any workaholic I've ever known. I'm not sure if it is just poor writing that Katherine's action are not consistent with how she is described or if it is a deliberate choice to show that Eddie is manipulating how she is viewed by his friends. I really hope it's the later because I want to see Eddie grow up as the show goes on. 

3 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I said it once and I'll say it again....Friends did this far more effectively.

 

I keep thinking the same think. 

 

9 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

There is another element to all this.  It seems that this marriage is headed for divorce and Katherine is a lawyer.  She does not practice family law (it seemed more like she practiced corporate law?) but she knows how these things work.  For her to leave the home would put her at a disadvantage when it came to working out the details of a divorce.  Honestly, Eddie leaving the house also puts him at a disadvantage, but my guess that he's already so far behind the eight ball thanks to committing adultery and not having a regular job that it wouldn't hit him as hard (if there is a lawyer reading this, please let me know if I'm off base). 

Anecdotally, I had a manager who lived for *four years* with her estranged husband in their basement because both of their lawyers told them that leaving the home would hurt them in terms of custody and so both of them refused to leave.

I'm also going to make a wild guess that the path for these two characters will not be them amicably going their separate ways.  I'm not saying that things are going to be hostile--but they might--or that they will reconcile--but they might.  Katherine's only tie to the main part of this show is through Eddie.  If they uncouple quickly, there is no reason to even keep her in the show.  Grace Park comes to this show with enough of a fan following that getting rid of her character, or even treating her character badly, made have an impact on the already fragile ratings.  David Giuntoli is in the same position.  Frankly, this show can't really afford to do anything too detrimental to either of their characters (or James Roday's).  Because of that, I think the Katherine/Eddie dance will go on for a while.  

(Also, can I just say that Szostak does NOT come with the fan following...just pointing that out...)

The fact that they recast Katherine makes me think that you are right and they have a plan to integrate her more in the group. I actually wonder if the direction for the character changed after the pilot was shot and Nash's statement of sacrificing Katherine was more about trying to cover up the inconsistency than a planned decision. There were so many other ways to make Eddie less unlikable in the pilot. I'd like to believe that they realized that Eddie and Delilah do not work and decided to change direction but that is probably just wishful thinking. 

[HazelEyes4325]

29 minutes ago, Dani said:

I worded my post poorly I actually meant despite people saying Katherine works a lot we've consistently seen the opposite even in the pilot. If Eddie and Delilah were talking at 11am ( they were going to meet at noon) then Katherine was supposed to pick up Theo and be home by 5. She works from home, is at friday night dinners, and picks up Theo regularly. That kind of schedule is not consistent with any workaholic I've ever known. I'm not sure if it is just poor writing that Katherine's action are not consistent with how she is described or if it is a deliberate choice to show that Eddie is manipulating how she is viewed by his friends. I really hope it's the later because I want to see Eddie grow up as the show goes on.  

3

I get what you are saying and I agree.  Eddie always had a fictional view of life where he was the victim and, therefore, didn't have to take responsibility for his life not being the way he wanted it.  The truth, as we saw, is that Katherine bore all the adult responsibility in their lives.  Honestly, I bet if Eddie had told her (pre-affair, of course) that he was going to start singing and local open mic nights, she'd probably be there in the front row.

I am going to choose to believe that this is not poor writing, but rather they are trying to show something about Eddie in how Katherine is portrayed vs. how she is described.  It's possible that wasn't the intention, in which case they got very lucky here.  

39 minutes ago, Dani said:

The fact that they recast Katherine makes me think that you are right and they have a plan to integrate her more in the group. I actually wonder if the direction for the character changed after the pilot was shot and Nash's statement of sacrificing Katherine was more about trying to cover up the inconsistency than a planned decision. There were so many other ways to make Eddie less unlikable in the pilot. I'd like to believe that they realized that Eddie and Delilah do not work and decided to change direction but that is probably just wishful thinking. 

 

Yeah, I wonder why Anne Son was replaced.  I know nothing about the actress, so I can't speak to her acting abilities.  I do know that Katherine seemed far more bitchy in the original promo with Son than she did in the episode with Park playing the same scene (or even in the promo version of it that was edited to make Katherine look worse).  However, as I said, Park does bring some fans with her, which is good for any show.

[Eeksquire]

Quote

I believe he thinks that being Theo's caregiver AND getting ready for his comeback are things that can be done at the same time.

Aw, see, I think Eddie's big flaw is that he COULD get ready for his comeback and be Theo's caregiver ... IF he was putting in the work.  Songwriting, practicing, reaching out to other musicians, playing gigs. A lot of that could be done while Theo is at school or in bed (it seems like Katherine liked his music, so maybe she'd be willing to support that?), but he has no work ethic at all.

Also, television divorce law is so far removed from real divorce law that it's probably not worth the comparison.  Especially where the writers apparently want us to believe that a married adult woman with two children who is ALSO having an affair could "accidentally" get pregnant AND would also discover that by means of a home pregnancy test accidentally left behind conspicuously at someone else's house.  (Sorry... the more I think about the absurdity of that storyline, the more it irritates me.  And, unlike a lot of you, I don't even hate Delilah, I just think she's boring! But boring isn't the same as dumb.)

[HazelEyes4325]

18 minutes ago, Eeksquire said:

Aw, see, I think Eddie's big flaw is that he COULD get ready for his comeback and be Theo's caregiver ... IF he was putting in the work.  Songwriting, practicing, reaching out to other musicians, playing gigs. A lot of that could be done while Theo is at school or in bed (it seems like Katherine liked his music, so maybe she'd be willing to support that?), but he has no work ethic at all.

1

Well, raising a child, teaching guitar, AND nailing your best friends wife is a tall order for any guy.  (smirk).  But, yeah, it was a lot easier for Eddie to sit back and complain about his "toxic" wife than it was for him to actually do what he needed to do to be who he wanted to be.

19 minutes ago, Eeksquire said:

Also, television divorce law is so far removed from real divorce law that it's probably not worth the comparison.  Especially where the writers apparently want us to believe that a married adult woman with two children who is ALSO having an affair could "accidentally" get pregnant AND would also discover that by means of a home pregnancy test accidentally left behind conspicuously at someone else's house.  (Sorry... the more I think about the absurdity of that storyline, the more it irritates me.  And, unlike a lot of you, I don't even hate Delilah, I just think she's boring! But boring isn't the same as dumb.)

 

I will freely admit that I expect too much reality from many of my TV shows.  I think it is because I'm much more of a reader than I am a TV viewer and some of the crap mistakes I see in shows (many in this show) would not cut it in a book.  

But, let's be real, the reason Eddie had to move out was that the show needed him to be in close proximity to Rome and Gary.  Reality be damned!

[Guest]

6 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

 

I am going to choose to believe that this is not poor writing, but rather they are trying to show something about Eddie in how Katherine is portrayed vs. how she is described.  It's possible that wasn't the intention, in which case they got very lucky here.  

I agree with this. Thinking back to the birthday episode, Gary obviously thought she would never agree to pick Theo up so Eddie could have fun. This is probably from Eddie constantly complaining about her. Her actual reaction was much more supportive.

[Dowel Jones]

I have to give the writers' room a snark credit for one scene.  When Katherine and Eddie are in the kitchen post-play, she begins with 'I don't want to be with you', but finishes with 'This Isn't Us.'

Boom.

Did anyone else think of To Kill A Mockingbird when Theo presents his costume?

[Nancybeth]

The Maggie and Gary storyline would work much better if when they hooked up at breast cancer support group wasn't the first time they met.  Like, maybe they knew each other in college...or they went on a couple dates, all his friends liked her but they didn't click.  And then they run into each other a few years later at support group and bam!  It's too much, too soon otherwise, both the depth of their relationship and her integration into his circle at a really terrible time.  

I also think it would help if more time as passing between episodes.  

[doodlebug]

4 hours ago, Nancybeth said:

The Maggie and Gary storyline would work much better if when they hooked up at breast cancer support group wasn't the first time they met.  Like, maybe they knew each other in college...or they went on a couple dates, all his friends liked her but they didn't click.  And then they run into each other a few years later at support group and bam!  It's too much, too soon otherwise, both the depth of their relationship and her integration into his circle at a really terrible time.  

I also think it would help if more time as passing between episodes.  

Exactly my thoughts.  She needed to somehow be connected into the group prior to Jon's death so that her sudden incorporation into the group didn't seem so jarring.  Even if she'd been an old school friend or former coworker of one of the other members of the friend group and some or all of them had met her casually at various social events over time, it would make more sense.  She needed to be at least peripherally connected to them so that her eventual admission to the inner circle was more organic and not so forced.

[KnoxForPres]

On 10/30/2018 at 9:48 AM, DearEvette said:

Ha!  This is how I feel exactly. Except for the 'adorable' part, the stuff with them is what I call 'precious'. 

 

Again, I agree.  There is something there with this show they just have to figure out how to jettison the stuff that just feels like sizzle and give us some steak.  Which is a reference to food, Which brings me to Regina, because I think it is remarkable that the character who has had the least development of every other single person on the show manages to stand out enough that I want to see more of her.  Credit to the actress.

Yes!  They’re “precious” which is where my believability ends and my eye roll commences. 

I need less hot air balloons and one on one baskebatll (and really- couldn’t we write her at least being a high school all star- and not  big collegiate all star?) and more realistic talk. I’ve never known a cliche like they are and if I met one they’d seem transparent and I’d see myself out. 

I get deflection and ignoring the elephant. Hell I probably do it on the daily. But if I really put myself in this situation both are written in a non believable way and my end result is I don’t care. I don’t care if she does the treatment or not and I don’t care what his reaction is. 

[Scarlett45]

On 10/24/2018 at 10:10 PM, doodlebug said:

I am very interested in Rome and Gina discussing their decision to remain childless and maybe revisit it; even if they come to the same conclusion. Actually, ESPECIALLY if they come to the same conclusion. TV has far too few couples who are childless by choice.  I really like both actors and also want to see Rome working with a therapist to learn more about himself and his depression as well as Regina finding out and being supportive.

On the other hand, Delilah’s pregnancy and the ‘Who’s the Daddy?’ storyline, which seems inevitable, sounds excruciating.

Ditto! (I’m late on this episode cause I was watching Halloween things the last two weeks)

I want to see a childfree black couple on my screen damn it! There are so few in the media it hurts my heart. 

 

Delilah likely doesn’t know who the father is unless she and Jon just werent having sex at all. If she chooses to have the baby she can DNA test her other kids to determine if it’s Jon’s, Eddie is so thirsty I’m sure he wants it to be his child ?. 

 

But as far as Eddie, yes he’s the one that cheated, but he’s Theo’s primary care giver. Can’t he sleep in the guest room until he can get an apartment/condo figured out? I’m not for separating him and Theo just because Eddie is a man- BUT I understand Katherine not being able to stay with him anymore. This isn’t a domestic violence, emotional abuse situation, Id let him stay in the guest room until a permanent housing situation was figured out and Theo had a room at both houses. 

Edited November 1, 2018 by Scarlett45

[izabella]

28 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

But as far as Eddie, yes he’s the one that cheated, but he’s Theo’s primary care giver. Can’t he sleep in the guest room until he can get an apartment/condo figured out? I’m not for separating him and Theo just because he’s male- BUT I understand Katherine not being able to stay with him anymore. This isn’t a domestic violence, emotional abuse situation, Id let him stay in the guest room until a permanent housing situation was figured out and Theo had a room at both houses. 

Eddie and Theo aren't being separated "just because he's male" or because he's male at all.  I don't even understand what that means.  They're being separated because Katherine can't stand the lying cheater living in the same house with her. 

And frankly, I would argue that, yes, a person cheating on you, lying to your face every day, gaslighting when you ask for the truth, and secretly planning to run off with their affair partner without a word is emotionally abusive, absolutely.  Abuse isn't just yelling and punching.  It's also lying, cheating, betraying your trust, and gut-punching.

Edited November 1, 2018 by izabella

[Scarlett45]

35 minutes ago, izabella said:

Eddie and Theo aren't being separated "just because he's male" or because he's male at all.  I don't even understand what that means.  They're being separated because Katherine can't stand the lying cheater living in the same house with her. 

And frankly, I would argue that, yes, a person cheating on you, lying to your face every day, gaslighting when you ask for the truth, and secretly planning to run off with their affair partner without a word is emotionally abusive, absolutely.  Abuse isn't just yelling and punching.  It's also lying, cheating, betraying your trust, and gut-punching.

 

My point was- typically the man is expected to leave the family home during a separation, and the woman stays in the same home with the children (as the woman is usually the primary caretaker)- even if a woman is cheating/lying to her spouse, the spouse was paying all the bills etc etc most people wouldn’t expect her to go sleep on a friend’s house away from her small child she was primary caretaker to; so why in this instance is Eddie expected to leave the family home? (Because he’s a man?) Like in the movie with Steve Carrel and Emma Stone, “Crazy, Stupid, Love”, the wife cheats and the husband has to move to a crummy apartment “because of the children” who were all older and she wasn’t a SAHM- I gave a side eye to that but most people I spoke with did not.

 

Yes he’s the one that cheated, I get why Katherine cannot be with him any more (I’m not saying she should stay married to him or anything) but in that position I wouldn’t have wanted him to go sleep on a friend’s sofa. The guest bedroom would’ve been fine until they figured out a semi permanent living situation for EVERYONE during the divorce/separation. I wouldn’t have suggested the guest bedroom in a situation where they were creating a hostile environment for Theo.  

From what we’ve seen Eddie hasn’t been abusive to Katherine at all. I’m not negating the effect of emotional or mental abuse- but being a bad husband because you’re a cheater makes you an asshole, it doesn’t make you an abuser. I don’t think Delilah was abusive to Jon by cheating with Eddie. A shitty lying wife sure, but not an abuser. 

Of course this is just my opinion. I don’t think Eddie and Katherine (especially not Katherine) are awful for having Eddie stay at Gary’s, I just would’ve made a different choice given what we’ve been shown on screen (Eddie being a stay at home Dad and primary caregiver to Theo, their ablity to be civil towards each other, no violence in the home etc); and I think the writer’s choice to have Eddie move out is rooted in gender, rather than who was wrong, or who takes care of Theo most of the time. 

Edited November 1, 2018 by Scarlett45

[TheLastKidPicked]

On 10/30/2018 at 1:20 PM, HazelEyes4325 said:

There is another element to all this.  It seems that this marriage is headed for divorce and Katherine is a lawyer.  She does not practice family law (it seemed more like she practiced corporate law?) but she knows how these things work.  For her to leave the home would put her at a disadvantage when it came to working out the custody details in a divorce.

I agree.  And that's why it took me right out of the scene when she said,  "They must have only emailed the primary parent".  

Will the writers please give us a little credit?  We don't need a piano falling on our head-- we understand that Katherine has realized that she has allowed Eddie to become the primary parent and she needs to do something about it.  Aside from the awkwardness of that line, most of us know a Katherine type.  Don't you think she would be damn sure to be on any email list the school has?  And she's a lawyer!  Lawyers don't miss details like that; it's what they do for a living.

 

Maybe they could be more subtle, and she can compare herself to a tree in the forest.  Oh, wait.  She did!

[doodlebug]

On ‎11‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 5:01 PM, TheLastKidPicked said:

I agree.  And that's why it took me right out of the scene when she said,  "They must have only emailed the primary parent".  

Will the writers please give us a little credit?  We don't need a piano falling on our head-- we understand that Katherine has realized that she has allowed Eddie to become the primary parent and she needs to do something about it.  Aside from the awkwardness of that line, most of us know a Katherine type.  Don't you think she would be damn sure to be on any email list the school has?  And she's a lawyer!  Lawyers don't miss details like that; it's what they do for a living.

 

Maybe they could be more subtle, and she can compare herself to a tree in the forest.  Oh, wait.  She did!

In this day and age, it makes no sense whatsoever that a school would have an email list that only had one listing; that of 'primary parent'.  What does that even mean? In this era of blended families, shared custody, never married parents, never cohabiting parents; it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that a school would allow only one email address per child.  There are at least two families living on the same block as I do where there is a shared custody arrangement where the kids live part time with each parent.  The other parent lives  block or two away with their current spouse and the kids go back and forth pretty freely.  That only works if both parents know what is happening at school and expecting a 7 year old to keep both parents informed is never going to work.  There is no reason why the school wouldn't ask for a valid address for both parents.

My sister married a guy with 3 school aged kids who moved with their mother a couple of hours away after the divorce.  He received notices from their schools informing him of open houses, teacher conferences, sports' schedules and everything else; as did his ex-wife.  It ain't that hard.

Just one more example of how this show gets a 'million little things' wrong.