S04.E09: Wiedersehen

[slippity slack]

Kim has been breaking my heart. I love her character but in the last few episodes it seems that Jimmy is trying to go straight and Kim is dragging him into ill-advised con jobs. What is her end game? For how long does she think she can keep doing these cons?

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I was wondering if Howard might help Jimmy with his appeal in the season finale, as a thanks for his harsh pep talk inspiring him to get back on his feet. It is also possible he acted to block his reinstatement.

In the preview

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Howard states that HHM is back.  

I wonder if Howard and HHM could have either knowingly or unknowingly gotten into bed with the Salamancas or more likely Fring, or LPH or Madrigal, and might be making money off the illegal drug trade.    

Wow, I really hadn't considered that kind of desperate behavior by Howard, but that sort of stuff really happens in the drug trade, and unlike Chuck, I don't think Howard would be a above that, if he was really squeezed financially.

[Bryce Lynch]

4 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Wow, I really hadn't considered that kind of desperate behavior by Howard, but that sort of stuff really happens in the drug trade, and unlike Chuck, I don't think Howard would be a above that, if he was really squeezed financially.

I could see Howard lured in thinking Fring was totally legitimate and then not being able to turn away the cash when he discovers he isn't.  Either that or semi-intentionally, semi-unintentionally missing the signs that Fring was dirty.  Sort of like Dr. Bruckner from Johns Hopkins.  

Edited October 2, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[MisterBluxom]

3 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I didn't experience that scene as anybody trying to force or compel anything from Jimmy.  They may have had an expectation that he would at least make mention of Chuck.  And he could have in a very non-committal way that at least acknowledged his passing, but as he said to Kim, he never thinks about Chuck.  I think a prudent person would have thought of that in the context of Chuck having been prominent, and that he in fact was a witness in Jimmy's initial bar hearing.  The elephant in the room, if you will. 

They didn't twist his arm. But they wouldn't reinstate him as a lawyer if he didn't do what they wanted him to do. So, it's not exactly the same as "forcing" him. But it's not a very different either.

3 hours ago, 100Proof said:

Honor among thieves. Within the group itself, one must grovel and humble thyself.

Yes. That makes sense to me.

[benteen]

27 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I could see Howard lured in thinking Fring was totally legitimate and then not being able to turn away the cash when he discovers he isn't.  Either that or semi-intentionally, semi-unintentionally missing the signs that Fring was dirty.  Sort of like Dr. Bruckner from Johns Hopkins.  

 

You know, I thought Jimmy might turn to Gus as a way to get his law license back but I never considered the idea of HHM getting into bed with Fring.  That would be something to see.  It would also be another consequence of Jimmy's actions that lead him to become Saul full-time. 

I always regretted that we didn't get to see Chuck share a scene with Gus.  Those two represent such completely different worlds that the collision between the two would be fascinating.  Not to mention the fact that the worlds of Jimmy and Mike have been pretty much kept separate from each other the past two seasons.  Something has to bring them back together again.  Chuck would be horrified to think that his legacy with HHM would get mixed up with drug trafficking.

I was glad that we got a Chuck and Mike scene last season, even if Mike was working undercover for Jimmy.

Edited October 2, 2018 by benteen

[PeterPirate]

22 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

They can drag him back and threaten to harm his wife, and he'll keep working. 

I suppose.  But Mike already gave Werner the "grave consequences" talk and it doesn't seem to have worked.  

As to comments about Lalo, they have to make him a strong, assertive type because he's the one person Saul thinks of when Walt and Jesse kidnap him.  That might lead to a big plot hole since we never see Lalo in BB.  Maybe Lalo gets killed in BCS without Jimmy's knowledge.  I don't believe Gus would torment Hector at the nursing home while Lalo was alive.  They picked the right actor to play Lalo, that's for sure.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, MissBluxom said:

They didn't twist his arm. But they wouldn't reinstate him as a lawyer if he didn't do what they wanted him to do. So, it's not exactly the same as "forcing" him. But it's not a very different either.

I think quoting Chuck saying, "The law is sacred." and saying how much he admired his big brother and wanted to follow in his footsteps would have been the ideal answer they were looking for.

But, any good answer that seemed sincere probably would have done.  When he said the University of American Samoa (Go, Land Crabs!) was his influence, he really blew it.  

I think the fact that his pride and feelings about Chuck wouldn't allow him to give the easy, winning answer, screwed him up.  

3 minutes ago, benteen said:

You know, I thought Jimmy might turn to Gus as a way to get his law license back but I never considered the idea of HHM getting into bed with Fring.  That would be something to see.  I always regretted that we didn't get to see Chuck share a scene with Gus.  Those two represent such completely different worlds that the collision between the two would be fascinating.  Not to mention the fact that the worlds of Jimmy and Mike have been pretty much kept separate from each other the past two seasons.  Something has to bring them back together again.

I was glad that we got a Chuck and Mike scene last season, even if Mike was working undercover for Jimmy.

Chuck and Fring would have been great in a scene together.

Another reason for a HHM/Fring business relationship would that it would give the writers something really interesting to do with Howard in season 5.

[ahmerali]

I can't see Howard resorting to something like that, especially not with Fring. There is absolutely no connection between *Jimmy* and Fring at this point, other than the one time when he was asked to go into Los Pollos Hermanos, and that wouldn't give Jimmy any insight into anything Fring is doing...that was only a job for Mike to do some recon.

I rather think that Kim uses her connections to figure out why exactly Howard and HHM are in such a huge financial bind. Clearly it's due to the tie-up of Chuck's estate...maybe she finds a way , with Jimmy's help - a release, a 'prepared statement' as we hear about in the sneak peek of Episode 10, something like that - to help HHM out, and by doing so gets Howard to provide something that will give Jimmy a way to get his license back.

Spoiler

We do see Jimmy going to Chuck's grave, and the footage we see of Howard saying "HHM is back" is very clearly on a television screen, I think it's something that gets prepared for the appeal hearing.

 

The episode is called 'Winner', after all....

Edited October 2, 2018 by ahmerali

[Bryce Lynch]

3 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I suppose.  But Mike already gave Werner the "grave consequences" talk and it doesn't seem to have worked.  

As to comments about Lalo, they have to make him a strong, assertive type because he's the one person Saul thinks of when Walt and Jesse kidnap him.  That might lead to a big plot hole since we never see Lalo in BB.  Maybe Lalo gets killed in BCS without Jimmy's knowledge.  I don't believe Gus would torment Hector at the nursing home while Lalo was alive.  They picked the right actor to play Lalo, that's for sure.

While, I think Werner might survive, the fact that he gave Mike his word that nothing like the bar incident would ever happen again probably both pisses Mike off and makes him think he cannot trust Werner.

I could see Lalo being in prison in the BB timeline as a result of Nacho snitching on him or setting him up, perhaps with Jimmy being involved in some way.  Saul didn't think it was actually Lalo who kidnapped him.  He said, "Lalo didn't send you?"  If Lalo was in prison it would make sense that he might send people after Saul.  

[MisterBluxom]

2 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think quoting Chuck saying, "The law is sacred." and saying how much he admired his big brother and wanted to follow in his footsteps would have been the ideal answer they were looking for.

But, any good answer that seemed sincere probably would have done.  When he said the University of American Samoa (Go, Land Crabs!) was his influence, he really blew it.  

I think the fact that his pride and feelings about Chuck wouldn't allow him to give the easy, winning answer, screwed him up.  

Yes. That certainly seems to hit the nail on the head. Vince must have a very low opinion of lawyers.  Those bastards didn't care how Jimmy felt towards his clients or the public or anyone else except for them. They wanted to see Jimmy bow and scrape and dance to their tune. That was the only way for him to get reinstated. They strike me as terrible human beings. In high school, I'm guessing they were bullies and they sat together as the "cool kids" and made fun of all the fat kids and other people who had visible problems. Thoroughly nasty people. There is not enough time left in this season for revenge. As lawyers, they don't get out into a position where something terrible could happen to them. But they could be in a courtroom and the building could collapse onto their heads.

Wow!  Vince has really converted me. I used to be neutral towards lawyers. But I find myself actively disliking them now.

[Bryce Lynch]

9 minutes ago, ahmerali said:

I can't see Howard resorting to something like that, especially not with Fring. There is absolutely no connection between *Jimmy* and Fring at this point, other than the one time when he was asked to go into Los Pollos Hermanos, and that wouldn't give Jimmy any insight into anything Fring is doing...that was only a job for Mike to do some recon.

I rather think that Kim uses her connections to figure out why exactly Howard and HHM are in such a huge financial bind. Clearly it's due to the tie-up of Chuck's estate...maybe she finds a way , with Jimmy's help - a release, a 'prepared statement' as we hear about in the sneak peek of Episode 10, something like that - to help HHM out, and by doing so gets Howard to provide something that will give Jimmy a way to get his license back. The footage we see of Howard saying "HHM is back" is very clearly on a television screen, I think it's something that gets prepared for the appeal hearing.

The episode is called 'Winner', after all....

 

Jimmy isn't stupid.  I think he would suspect that following a guy with a backpack that Mike expected to be delivered to LPH might have something to do with drugs.

But, I think Fring might seek out HHM independent of Jimmy.  Mike has some familiarity with the HHM situation through his PI/door repair work for Jimmy and he gave Jimmy his condolences on the death of Chuck.  Gus and Mike could see cash starved, but well regarded HHM as a just the type of firm that would serve Fring well, and that Fring could control.   

I could see Mike meeting with Jimmy to find out what Jimmy knows about Howard and HHM and that meeting help convince Mike that HHM is the right firm for Fring and LPH. 

Edited October 2, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[MisterBluxom]

38 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I was wondering if Howard might help Jimmy with his appeal in the season finale, as a thanks for his harsh pep talk inspiring him to get back on his feet. It is also possible he acted to block his reinstatement.

 

That would be a very noble way to go. But I would have to guess the odds of that happening would be close to zero.

[Dev F]

13 minutes ago, MissBluxom said:

Yes. That certainly seems to hit the nail on the head. Vince must have a very low opinion of lawyers.  Those bastards didn't care how Jimmy felt towards his clients or the public or anyone else except for them. They wanted to see Jimmy bow and scrape and dance to their tune. That was the only way for him to get reinstated.

I'm more apt to go with Occam's Razor on this one and say that the reason they rejected him was the reason they gave: because he came across as insincere. And the reason he came across as insincere is because he was being insincere. The very crux of Jimmy's arc this season -- so central that they based the season's promotional art on it -- is that he's pretending not to care about his brother's death to avoid dealing with the fact that he actually cares very deeply. The only problem with the board's decision is that they don't have any way of knowing that Jimmy is lying to himself, so they think he's lying to them deliberately.

[PeterPirate]

9 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I could see Lalo being in prison in the BB timeline as a result of Nacho snitching on him or setting him up, perhaps with Jimmy being involved in some way.  Saul didn't think it was actually Lalo who kidnapped him.  He said, "Lalo didn't send you?"  If Lalo was in prison it would make sense that he might send people after Saul.  

Another possibility is that Lalo died off-camera with Don Eladio in Salud.  The problem with both of these ideas is that when Gus visited Hector to tell him of the death of Eladio and Hector's own grandson, he made it sound like Hector's family had been completely wiped out.  I doubt Gus would leave Lalo alive, even in prison, after taking out the rest of the cartel.  

I'm forgoing the speculation this week and am going to take Jimmy's bar review for what it was--the review board taking exception to Jimmy's failure to mention Chuck.   I've speculated enough already about Howard and don't need to repeat it.  

Edited October 3, 2018 by PeterPirate

[benteen]

38 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think quoting Chuck saying, "The law is sacred." and saying how much he admired his big brother and wanted to follow in his footsteps would have been the ideal answer they were looking for.

But, any good answer that seemed sincere probably would have done.  When he said the University of American Samoa (Go, Land Crabs!) was his influence, he really blew it.  

I think the fact that his pride and feelings about Chuck wouldn't allow him to give the easy, winning answer, screwed him up.  

Chuck and Fring would have been great in a scene together.

Another reason for a HHM/Fring business relationship would that it would give the writers something really interesting to do with Howard in season 5.

Agreed.  Like Nacho and Kim, it would put Howard's fate very much in the air and on a prequel series, that's important.

[Bryce Lynch]

Is it a coincidence that Werner has the same first name as Walter White's alter-ego.   The next episode is titled "Winner".  Could Werner be the first brilliant family man, turned criminal,  to get the best of Fring, though not fatally of course, and say, "I won."   In BB Heisenberg defeated Fring in the Season 4 finale. 

Did anyone else suspect Werner might have been talking in code to his wife?

Edited October 2, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[LoneHaranguer]

2 hours ago, AEMom said:

I was worried about all the same things.  And then the poor guy had a full blown panic attack. 

He couldn't fully trust that he wasn't about to be the victim of an "accident". Ever since the show mentioned blasting, I wondered why the crew wasn't using another method more suited to their needs. Answer: the writers wanted to be able to do this scene.

[Ellaria]

32 minutes ago, Dev F said:

I'm more apt to go with Occam's Razor on this one and say that the reason they rejected him was the reason they gave: because he came across as insincere. And the reason he came across as insincere is because he was being insincere. The very crux of Jimmy's arc this season -- so central that they based the season's promotional art on it -- is that he's pretending not to care about his brother's death to avoid dealing with the fact that he actually cares very deeply. The only problem with the board's decision is that they don't have any way of knowing that Jimmy is lying to himself, so they think he's lying to them deliberately.

Well said!

4 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

He's always the "victim," of Chuck, of the system, of his own bad judgment.  He's always his own worst enemy...  

Kudos to the show for showing us their utter astonishment at what had seemed a forgone conclusion:  That of course Jimmy would get his law license back and then eventually descend from there.  Because as a viewer I assumed it too...

In fact, his association with Huell and his assault on the officer and his role in it as the "scumbag disbarred lawyer selling drop phones to criminals" never even came up.  And yet it's still not good enough but hey, maybe try back next year. 

This certainly won't encourage you to say fuck it and forget trying to stay on the straight and narrow on the off chance that in maybe another year from now we'll find you worthy.  The panel completely missed all the legitimately criminal reasons Jimmy shouldn't be a lawyer but vetoed him anyway because he's "insincere."  Sure. 

With acknowledgment to @nodorothyparker, I pulled a few comments from that excellent post that describe how Jimmy's arc is playing out:

I, too, assumed that his law license would be reinstated. Never thought twice about it. I'm also surprised that the shenanigans with Huell never came up since the Asst DA identified Jimmy as the "scumbag disbarred lawyer selling drop phones to criminals." Jimmy may also have been surprised that it didn't come up either since others in the legal community knew about his disbarment/suspension.

In retrospect, it was a teensy bit too convenient that 1)Kim and Jimmy didn't review/rehearse his responses at the hearing before he went in. This would have given Kim a chance to say "You have to reference Chuck rather land crabs" OR  2)One of the attorneys at the hearing didn't pointedly ask him a question about Chuck since that's a reaction that they were seeking.

The hearing and its outcome as well Jimmy's responses to both were established to push him further down the path of becoming Saul. In Jimmy's mind, he was screwed again by the legal community and by Chuck from beyond the grave. The show gave us little incentive for Jimmy to try and re-establish himself as an honest, diligent attorney. He most cetainly is his own worst enemy.

[Bryce Lynch]

I was thinking of another similarity between Werner and Walter White.

Both Werner and Walt had trouble keeping their work secret because of their pride in their work.  Werner blabbed to the guys in the bar about his brilliant solutions to engineering problems, while a bit drunk.  I believe that was after he spoke about his father building the Sydney Opera House.  I took it that he regretted that his greatest achievement would be buried under a laundry and only a handful of people would see it.

Walt, couldn't just let Hank and the DEA assume that Gail had been the real Heisenberg, and belittled his lab notes as rote copying, while a bit drunk.   He wanted credit for his work.

They also both had talks with Mike at the same bar in ABQ.

It is interesting that the last 2 episodes of the season both start with W.  

The more I think about it, the more I think Werner might get the best of Fring and Mike and be the "Winner" of the Finale.  

Edited October 2, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[iMonrey]

Why were the old folks at the old folks home watching old reruns of The Newlywed Game? This doesn't take place in the 1960s. They don't even show those on The Game Show channel (they show the newer versions with Carnie Wilson and Sherri Shepherd). Do they have old videotapes of them or something? I thought that was really weird. 

[Bannon]

18 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I was thinking of another similarity between Werner and Walter White.

Both Werner and Walt had trouble keeping their work secret because of their pride in their work.  Werner blabbed to the guys in the bar about his brilliant solutions to engineering problems, while a bit drunk.  I believe that was after he spoke about his father building the Sydney Opera House.  I took it that he regretted that his greatest achievement would be buried under a laundry and only a handful of people would see it.

Walt, couldn't just let Hank and the DEA assume that Gail had been the real Heisenberg, and belittled his lab notes as rote copying, while a bit drunk.   He wanted credit for his work.

They also both had talks with Mike at the same bar in ABQ.

It is interesting that the last 2 episodes of the season both start with W.  

The more I think about it, the more I think Werner might get the best of Fring and Mike and be the "Winner" of the Finale.  

Yeah, those really are interesting parallels between Fring's two most technically skilled laborers (if we put Werner ahead of Gale). Werner isn't the prideful rage monger, always looking to take offense, that Walt is, but he does regret that his considerable skill hasn't produced something more possible for public recognition than a fabulous covert illegal manufacturing plant. 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

3 hours ago, sempervivum said:

This is more complicated than that. Kevin wanted to change Lubbock's design from a more traditional to a high fashion/trendy design. Kim said that they had to fight just to get the city to agree to the traditional one, and that she believed a lot of time and effort would be wasted going back to start over, with little chance of success. Kevin has accepted this. If this goes forward, the first thing that happens will be that the contractor who presumably gave a quote based on the first blueprint will receive the new one and realize that his material and labor costs will be (probably) higher.  I don't know at what stage the city will realize that the building being erected is not what was agreed upon, but Kevin's going to be on the hook for all the costs and either will have to demolish and/or spend $ to reconstruct. I really don't think this will make him happy, and if he finds out (via the poor elastic waist pants clerk) who did it, Kim will be axed.

I can see Kevin arranging for a nice "honorarium" with the GC (General Contractor) to simply go with the flow, and to assure him he'll pay whatever for the change orders.   The inspectors would simply be going off of the plans on file.  Unless there would be some idiosyncratic code problem, the inspectors would not give a rat's patootie.  I highly doubt Lubbock would have such a code with more built-in safety or higher standards.

As for the Bar committee - would there not necessarily be a built-in probationary period?  If not, could they not have easily inserted one, forcing Jimmy to come back to them, say, quarterly?  This deal really has the hallmarks of a personal or political hit.

[Bryce Lynch]

5 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I can see Kevin arranging for a nice "honorarium" with the GC (General Contractor) to simply go with the flow, and to assure him he'll pay whatever for the change orders.   The inspectors would simply be going off of the plans on file.  Unless there would be some idiosyncratic code problem, the inspectors would not give a rat's patootie.  I highly doubt Lubbock would have such a code with more built-in safety or higher standards.

As for the Bar committee - would there not necessarily be a built-in probationary period?  If not, could they not have easily inserted one, forcing Jimmy to come back to them, say, quarterly?  This deal really has the hallmarks of a personal or political hit.

I agree that extending the suspension for at least another year seemed excessive, especially given that it was based solely on "sincerity", and Jimmy had (as far as they knew) stayed out of trouble and done everything he was supposed to do during his suspension.  

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I wanted to make a separate post for this.   Apologies if I am breaking the spirit of, or an actual, PTV rule.

If a woman as important to me as Kim, with my highest regard built-in, ever said to me anything remotely like, "LR - you are always down.", I would never fully recover from it.  Never.  Ever.  Ever.  In the moment, I would be utterly gutted and very likely, dysfunctional.

Thanks again, to VG and his team for having the intelligence, the guts, and yes, the love, required for building to such a moment with careful and patient character development.  Such organic moments are exceedingly rare in entertainment.

[Ohwell]

It seems to me that Kim is always "down" as well, what with the smoking and just her general attitude.  She doesn't seem to be much fun or pleasant to be around. 

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I was thinking of another similarity between Werner and Walter White.

Both Werner and Walt had trouble keeping their work secret because of their pride in their work.  Werner blabbed to the guys in the bar about his brilliant solutions to engineering problems, while a bit drunk.  I believe that was after he spoke about his father building the Sydney Opera House.  I took it that he regretted that his greatest achievement would be buried under a laundry and only a handful of people would see it.

Walt, couldn't just let Hank and the DEA assume that Gail had been the real Heisenberg, and belittled his lab notes as rote copying, while a bit drunk.   He wanted credit for his work.

They also both had talks with Mike at the same bar in ABQ.

It is interesting that the last 2 episodes of the season both start with W.  

The more I think about it, the more I think Werner might get the best of Fring and Mike and be the "Winner" of the Finale.  

Another thought.  Was Werner's panic attack while checking the TNT wiring in the  basement his "Crawl Space" moment?

[ahmerali]

Another thought:

Spoiler

The description of the last episode says that "Lalo tracks a loose end in Gus's operation". I'm now thinking that he's got eyes on Werner, and is going to find him before Mike does. Werner, in exchange for his life and protection by the Salamancas, tells Lalo about the superlab construction. Lalo, armed with this information, formulates a plan to get the Salamanca clan back into power with Don Eladio and eliminate the Chilean in the process....

And that sets up your Season 5 storylines for Mike and Gus. Not to mention poor Nacho who is still caught in the middle. And that totally explains the whole "It was Nacho! Lalo didn't send you?" thing.

Edited October 2, 2018 by ahmerali

[Ellaria]

32 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

If a woman as important to me as Kim, with my highest regard built-in, ever said to me anything remotely like, "LR - you are always down.", I would never fully recover from it.  Never.  Ever.  Ever.  In the moment, I would be utterly gutted and very likely, dysfunctional.

Agree, LR. I'm not sure that I will recover from it. I understand Kim's frustration with Jimmy but...wow, that was harsh.

 

9 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

It seems to me that Kim is always "down" as well, what with the smoking and just her general attitude.  She doesn't seem to be much fun or pleasant to be around. 

Alternatively, I adore Kim and her easy-going nature. I think that she would be a great friend.

[ShadowFacts]

8 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

It seems to me that Kim is always "down" as well, what with the smoking and just her general attitude.  She doesn't seem to be much fun or pleasant to be around. 

They're birds of a feather in a lot of ways.  She has done more bailing out of him, and she sees herself as using her powers for good.  But they have quite a bit in common, hence the attraction.   She's veering off the straight and narrow now, and I wonder what is behind that.  She kept quite a tight rein on herself for all the time she worked at HHM, she's achieved partnership at a prestigious firm, she is apparently super competent and confident, appeared to at one time have had stars in her eyes about case law, and now she is letting herself get perilously close to blowing that all up.  Why?

[Bannon]

13 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

They're birds of a feather in a lot of ways.  She has done more bailing out of him, and she sees herself as using her powers for good.  But they have quite a bit in common, hence the attraction.   She's veering off the straight and narrow now, and I wonder what is behind that.  She kept quite a tight rein on herself for all the time she worked at HHM, she's achieved partnership at a prestigious firm, she is apparently super competent and confident, appeared to at one time have had stars in her eyes about case law, and now she is letting herself get perilously close to blowing that all up.  Why?

I really hope Gilligan &,Co. expand on her backstory next season or next week! Could be a great cold open.....

[Eulipian 5k]

8 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

It seems to me that Kim is always "down" as well, what with the smoking and just her general attitude. 

Have we ever seen Kim smoking without Jimmy? The "Now Voyager-like" scenes  have become an iconic image from the very introduction of Kim's character. It was the first, and many said only, signs of intimacy between them. The cigarette may just be a cigarette. I imagine we may have seen her smoking alone when MV had her stressed, but I really read those scenes as Jimmy's & Kim's "thing"/getaway.

[Bryce Lynch]

15 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

They're birds of a feather in a lot of ways.  She has done more bailing out of him, and she sees herself as using her powers for good.  But they have quite a bit in common, hence the attraction.   She's veering off the straight and narrow now, and I wonder what is behind that.  She kept quite a tight rein on herself for all the time she worked at HHM, she's achieved partnership at a prestigious firm, she is apparently super competent and confident, appeared to at one time have had stars in her eyes about case law, and now she is letting herself get perilously close to blowing that all up.  Why?

Both of them are hard workers who tend to seem depressed when they are relaxing.  Their only hobby (besides goldfish keeping and juicing for Jimmy, and an occasional old movie for both) seems to be con-artistry.   

[Bannon]

30 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

It seems to me that Kim is always "down" as well, what with the smoking and just her general attitude.  She doesn't seem to be much fun or pleasant to be around. 

The only person Kim can let her guard dowm with is Jimmy. The day may come where she has enough influence at Schweikert to relax, without concern for appwaring to be the best and brightest, but not yet. Prior to that, it was Control Freak Chuck and his sidekick, Mr. Insecurity Howard. Jimmy wouldn't be with a woman who wasn't any fun, but it is his varied and numerous crisies which tend to dominate their relationship.

Kim seems to treat her paralegals and receptionists respectfully and well, which is a sign of good character.

[scenario]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Why were the old folks at the old folks home watching old reruns of The Newlywed Game? This doesn't take place in the 1960s. They don't even show those on The Game Show channel (they show the newer versions with Carnie Wilson and Sherri Shepherd). Do they have old videotapes of them or something? I thought that was really weird. 

Elderly people with memory issues frequently feel more comfortable with familiar sights and sounds. That's why they tend to play 60 or 70 year old music that the residents would be familiar with. They probably do have tapes of the old shows. The residents with memory issues aren't really going to care if they see the same 10 or 20 episodes over and over again, 

[PeterPirate]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

They're birds of a feather in a lot of ways.  She has done more bailing out of him, and she sees herself as using her powers for good.  But they have quite a bit in common, hence the attraction.   She's veering off the straight and narrow now, and I wonder what is behind that.  She kept quite a tight rein on herself for all the time she worked at HHM, she's achieved partnership at a prestigious firm, she is apparently super competent and confident, appeared to at one time have had stars in her eyes about case law, and now she is letting herself get perilously close to blowing that all up.  Why?

It's hard to pinpoint Kim's attraction to Jimmy, but it does go back a long way.  When he got the letter about his passing the bar exam, he had her read it.  And then she planted a serious kiss on him.  I'm pretty certain they dated at least a little beforehand, and their interlude after scamming KenWins was not their first time together.    

And yes, they are birds of a feather.

Edited October 2, 2018 by PeterPirate

[Bryce Lynch]

https://audioboom.com/posts/7030349-409-better-call-saul-insider

The Insider Podcast is available.  Rhea Seehorn is the guest, with her podcast voice.   

[Misstify]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Why were the old folks at the old folks home watching old reruns of The Newlywed Game? This doesn't take place in the 1960s. They don't even show those on The Game Show channel (they show the newer versions with Carnie Wilson and Sherri Shepherd). Do they have old videotapes of them or something? I thought that was really weird. 

 

25 minutes ago, scenario said:

Elderly people with memory issues frequently feel more comfortable with familiar sights and sounds. That's why they tend to play 60 or 70 year old music that the residents would be familiar with. They probably do have tapes of the old shows. The residents with memory issues aren't really going to care if they see the same 10 or 20 episodes over and over again, 

I've visited a nursing home that had an extensive collection of VHS tapes of the Lawrence Welk Show.  That said...I can't believe the old Newlywed Show would be anybody's favorite nostalgia-binge-watch.  So, while I agree it was meant to portray the realistic possibility of a nursing home showing TV shows from past decades, the choice of this particular show (and that particular dialogue--ugh) had to be some sort of commentary.  Maybe a contrast to Kim & Jimmy's relationship?  They would never participate in such tacky comments about each other, but also, they will never be newlyweds. 

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, Bannon said:

Kim seems to treat her paralegals and receptionists respectfully and well, which is a sign of good character.

I didn't say she wasn't of good character, but she doesn't seem to be that fun or pleasant to be around.  Two different things.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, Ohwell said:

I didn't say she wasn't of good character, but she doesn't seem to be that fun or pleasant to be around.  Two different things.

Yes, other than the scamming, she seems to be a good and decent person.  But, when they aren't working or working a con, both Kim and Jimmy often seem a bit drab and joyless.  

[Ohwell]

9 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Yes, other than the scamming, she seems to be a good and decent person. 

And now that I think about it, I'm not sure how good her character is because of the scamming.   For example, I hope that lady we saw last night doesn't get fired for helping her out. 

[sempervivum]

2 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

5 hours ago, sempervivum said:

This is more complicated than that. Kevin wanted to change Lubbock's design from a more traditional to a high fashion/trendy design. Kim said that they had to fight just to get the city to agree to the traditional one, and that she believed a lot of time and effort would be wasted going back to start over, with little chance of success. Kevin has accepted this. If this goes forward, the first thing that happens will be that the contractor who presumably gave a quote based on the first blueprint will receive the new one and realize that his material and labor costs will be (probably) higher.  I don't know at what stage the city will realize that the building being erected is not what was agreed upon, but Kevin's going to be on the hook for all the costs and either will have to demolish and/or spend $ to reconstruct. I really don't think this will make him happy, and if he finds out (via the poor elastic waist pants clerk) who did it, Kim will be axed.

I can see Kevin arranging for a nice "honorarium" with the GC (General Contractor) to simply go with the flow, and to assure him he'll pay whatever for the change orders.   The inspectors would simply be going off of the plans on file.  Unless there would be some idiosyncratic code problem, the inspectors would not give a rat's patootie.  I highly doubt Lubbock would have such a code with more built-in safety or higher standards.

I'm from Milwaukee, not Lubbock, but proposals here have to go before both the Planning Commission and Zoning Commission before they're approved. There are members on both who are passionate about architecture, size, scale, and community impact (if it's anywhere near residential areas); guessing it might be similar in Texas. Since Kim told us there was initially a bit of a battle, we can assume there was disagreement about the looks and possibly the size of this thing. Regardless of the blueprints matching, there will be committee members who remember and will object; if the proposal went out for community input, ditto. I just don't know what legal standing there would be given the officially-stamped blueprints.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

And now that I think about it, I'm not sure how good her character is because of the scamming.   For example, I hope that lady we saw last night doesn't get fired for helping her out. 

Up until now, her scams haven't really hurt people (well, except for helping to kill Chuck).  KenWins was a douchebag and they conned him out of an expensive bottle of tequila.  The guy at the bar was trying to cheat on his wife or gf with her, and Giselle and Viktor conned him into writing a $10,000 check, but she never cashed it.  The last one was to get a better deal for Huell.   So, she always seemed to feel morally justified.

This latest one put the clerk's job in jeopardy, and was directly related to her banking work, so I feel like she has crossed a major line. She really didn't care about getting Kevin his pretty branch in Lubbock, she just wanted the thrill of conning someone.    

[MisterBluxom]

4 hours ago, Dev F said:

I'm more apt to go with Occam's Razor on this one and say that the reason they rejected him was the reason they gave: because he came across as insincere. And the reason he came across as insincere is because he was being insincere. The very crux of Jimmy's arc this season -- so central that they based the season's promotional art on it -- is that he's pretending not to care about his brother's death to avoid dealing with the fact that he actually cares very deeply. The only problem with the board's decision is that they don't have any way of knowing that Jimmy is lying to himself, so they think he's lying to them deliberately.

That is a very astute analysis and conclusion. I'm not trying to be a smartass here. I am honestly being sincere. But ... Yikes!  It's becoming difficult to try and be believable when I say that I'm being sincere.  But I am.

Edited October 2, 2018 by MissBluxom

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, MissBluxom said:

That is a very astute analysis and conclusion. I'm not trying to be a smartass here. I am honestly being sincere. Yikes! It's getting difficult to try to be believable when I say that I'm being sincere. But I am.

In my eyes, your post lacks sincerity.  You can try again in a year, if you want. :)

[Bannon]

25 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I didn't say she wasn't of good character, but she doesn't seem to be that fun or pleasant to be around.  Two different things.

True enough, but nearly all the time we have seen her it gas been with either Howard, Chuck,  Schweikert, Mesa Verde peeps, or Jimmy in crisis.How much fun lovin' can she be expected to exhibit in those settings? When she and Jimmy have been out, she seems normally fun to me.

[DangerousMinds]

6 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

Now I'm wondering if Werner might be a half measure, which causes Mike to adopt his "no half measures" credo.

Didn’t Mike explain that he developed his “no Half measures “ credo after a domestic violence disputes in BB?

[MisterBluxom]

45 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

It's hard to pinpoint Kim's attraction to Jimmy, but it does go back a long way.  When he got the letter about his passing the bar exam, he had her read it.  And then she planted a serious kiss on him.  I'm pretty certain they dated at least a little beforehand, and their interlude after scamming KenWins was not their first time together.    

And yes, they are birds of a feather.

 

It's not at all hard to pinpoint my attraction to Kim. She is not only a generally attractive lady. But the combination of that deep (almost masculine) voice and that lightning quick mind on top of her incredible brain makes for a lady who is in every way the kind of lady I've been dreaming about ever since I saw that scene in The Big Sleep with Humphrey Bogart and the librarian type lady who showed her attraction to Mr. Bogart by removing her glasses and removing a pin in her hair which allowed that bountiful and beautiful chestnut brown hair to come tumbling down over all her shoulders. It's been 50 years now since I first saw that film and I still dream about her often.  Just the perfect kind of lady. All prim and proper while she works at her job as a librarian. But then she goes "off duty" and with one or two motions, she becomes a "hot damsel".  Just the girl of my dreams.  (P.S. for those of you who may be interested, I chose a female name (Miss Bluxom).  But I'm really a man and I love lady librarians).

13 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

In my eyes, your post lacks sincerity.  You can try again in a year, if you want. :)

You know, the first time I read that post, it really did hurt  -  kind of like a knife to the heart.

I can certainly understand why Jimmy would feel so enraged.  Thanks  -  I guess   :)

Edited October 2, 2018 by MissBluxom

[SunnyBeBe]

6 hours ago, slippity slack said:

Kim has been breaking my heart. I love her character but in the last few episodes it seems that Jimmy is trying to go straight and Kim is dragging him into ill-advised con jobs. What is her end game? For how long does she think she can keep doing these cons?

I'm beginning to wonder if Kim may be sent to prison and that's why she's not in Jimmy's life, later on.  I realize it sounds bizarre, but, she seems more daring than Jimmy lately.  Plus, with Kim's scams, they are traceable and provable.  If she's truly exasperated by Jimmy's continuous state of "being down,"  she needs to stop cohorting with him on scams. 

[Clanstarling]

20 hours ago, AEMom said:

Ding!  The mystery of the bell is solved.

I never gave the bell a moment's thought - but even so, I found it amusing that it was a spite filled bell.

11 hours ago, Bannon said:

Jimmy has completely internalized all the negative stuff Chuck said about him, to his face, for years. To the point that he thinks it is possible that the one person who really, sincerely, loves him, who really sees his positive attributes, and forgives his negative attributes, holds him in as much secret contempt that Chuck did much more openly. It's really sad.

Exactly how I took that scene. And Kim wasn't wrong with what she said either.

10 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I'm not so sure Werner will be killed, either.  I could definitely see it happening, but I could also see Mike covering for him, or letting him escape and either lying to Gus about killing him or pissing Gus off.   The writers seem to be playing with us more this season than in any other season of BB or BCS and letting our imaginations run wild, then subverting our expectations.   

I think Mike will kill him. This is the moment he'll turn from a guy working for a criminal (albeit a guy who has killed for personal reasons before), to a guy who will kill a guy he likes for business reasons. It's a different step down the ladder, imo.

8 hours ago, Bannon said:

Yes, it is dehumanizing to call someone a weasel. The intent to insult matters. When a person is called a cockroach, the person hurling the insult is not literally saying the target is an insect, but it is dehumanizing. That's the point of the insult. Likening someone to a chimp is the same. I think it may be the worst thing Chuck ever said to Jimmy.

I'd rank it a wee bit below Chuck saying he never really cared about him. But I don't disagree with the rest of it.

11 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm beginning to wonder if Kim may be sent to prison and that's why she's not in Jimmy's life, later on.  I realize it sounds bizarre, but, she seems more daring than Jimmy lately.  Plus, with Kim's scams, they are traceable and provable.  If she's truly exasperated by Jimmy's continuous state of "being down,"  she needs to stop cohorting with him on scams. 

I've been thinking that since Kim started slipping.

What stood out to me hasn't been mentioned yet. When Jimmy is planning for his reinstatement, he mentions he already has clientele who could use him based on his drop phone business, then says "But they know me as Saul Goodman." So, like so many other things we expect to go a certain way, his name change looks like it won't have some big dramatic impetus, but instead will be a simple business decision once he's reinstated,

[PeterPirate]

1 hour ago, MissBluxom said:

It's not at all hard to pinpoint my attraction to Kim. She is not only a generally attractive lady. But the combination of that deep (almost masculine) voice and that lightning quick mind on top of her incredible brain makes for a lady who is in every way the kind of lady I've been dreaming about ever since I saw that scene in The Long Goodbey with Humphrey Bogart and the librarian type lady who showed her attraction to Mr. Bogart by removing her glasses and removing a pin in her hair which allowed her hair to come tumbling down over her shoulders. It's been 50 years now since I first saw that film and I still dream about her often.  Just the perfect kind of lady. All prim and proper while she works at her job as a librarian. But then she can go "off duty" and with one or two motions, she becomes a "hot damsel".  Just the girl of my dreams.  (P.S. for those of you who may be interested, I chose a female name. But I'm really a man and I love librarians).

I agree that Kim is attractive.  Sorry, my post that you quoted was imprecise.  I meant to say that it is hard to pinpoint why Kim is attracted to Jimmy.  I think they are "birds of a feather", but we haven't been given enough to work with along those lines.  

Also, fwiw, I'm a guy and my screen name is based on the mascot of a local high school.