S01.E02: Band Of Dads

[smartymarty]

On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 4:37 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

There isn't always an obvious or logical reason when people are depressed or suicidal. That's what can be so frustrating, even for the person who is depressed or suicidal. I know people who have been depressed/suicidal who have said things like, "I know that I have a great life so I shouldn't feel this way, but I do and I can't stop feeling this way."

So how come nobody on the show realizes this? They keep saying "we don't know the reason he killed himself," but if they merely Googled "depression," the comment would be "we didn't realize he was depression." Chronic depression is a condition just like Type 1 diabetes. There is no "I'm depressed about X." You're just depressed. It drives me nuts that Jon's wife (I can't remember names yet) hasn't sat down with her kids and explained this to them, and if not her, than really any other freaking character! We have the internet, people!

On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 1:57 PM, TheLastKidPicked said:

On ‎10‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 11:14 PM, saoirse said:

Rome's story is a little more complicated, but I really appreciated how it tied into Jon's daughter's story. Rome is a lost soul - I feel like he thought he'd be the next big thing as a director, and part of his depression is that he's not the nu-Spielberg (or insert other big director here). I so appreciated the 'gardener/flower' comparison. He's just looking for something to hold on to, and this story has some personal resonance for me.

Rome's story is a bit more complicated, and if you've been "in the business" you can appreciate what he is going through.  I do lighting and work with directors every day.  I'm lucky because I know when I will work and how much I will get paid.  But Rome--  Rome never knows when he will find work or how much he will make. 

I think the first comment is more accurate. And now I'm going to contradict myself about depression and say that, sometimes, depression is more like Type 2 diabetes, in that it's situational. Rome's depression may be linked to his occupational situation, that he's not the success he wanted to be. Though that's easier understood by the person suffering. If he's chronically depressed, then his job situation is just a symptom -- a non-chronic depressed person would either accept his lot in life or have the motivation to change it.

I don't like that Rome hasn't shared this all with his wife despite sharing it with his friends. Is his marriage really not as strong as his friendships? I suppose that's what we're supposed to think, and because the Four Musketeers were just sooo, so close, even closer than with their wives. But, barf. I'd prefer they portray a more realistic (or healthy) marriage -- have his wife know but not his friends.

Finally, I do not find it realistic that Eddie would not have listened to the voice mail the same day Jon died. Just because Eddie knew he didn't answer because he was in bed with Jon's wife doesn't mean he could make the logical leap that Jon knew. The call could have been about anything, and certainly on the day of the suicide, with everyone wondering what was going on, he'd be interested in what Jon called about, maybe even ask if anyone else got a call. And yeah, I predicted that Jon would give his blessing.

I don't understand why there is police tape in front of the doorway 10 days later. I don't understand it being there in the first place. There is nothing there to suggest a murder, and even if, the patio is small enough for the police to collect any evidence the day of. If the police really suspected murder, the whole office would be cordoned off, NOT the door open to anyone who wants to walk in.

Anyone find the father-daughter dance competition creepy? First I thought it was just a Father-Daughter dance, in which case the daughter didn't have to go and nobody would notice. Then seeing that it was just 10-or-whatever couples, still, the girl whose dad just died could have cancelled out without much comment. And then to make it a competition?? Just weird. Must be some very wealthy school, too, to rent out that ballroom just for the sake of 10+ girls. (Why no mother-son dances?)

[Jillybean]

This episode has been sitting on my DVR since it aired. I haven't been too inclined to watch it after finding the pilot extremely meh at best. I've read much of this thread trying to figure out if it's worth giving it one more episode. I still can't tell. Would anyone like to weigh in? 

[HazelEyes4325]

16 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

This episode has been sitting on my DVR since it aired. I haven't been too inclined to watch it after finding the pilot extremely meh at best. I've read much of this thread trying to figure out if it's worth giving it one more episode. I still can't tell. Would anyone like to weigh in? 

The 2nd episode is better than the first (and the 3rd is better than the second).  I'd give it a try for at least another episode or two.  I think it was saddled with a flawed pilot...

[TheLastKidPicked]

43 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

This episode has been sitting on my DVR since it aired. I haven't been too inclined to watch it after finding the pilot extremely meh at best. I've read much of this thread trying to figure out if it's worth giving it one more episode. I still can't tell. Would anyone like to weigh in? 

 

26 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

The 2nd episode is better than the first (and the 3rd is better than the second).  I'd give it a try for at least another episode or two.  I think it was saddled with a flawed pilot...

I agree, and would take it one step further by saying that they are flirting with being saddled with a flawed premise.

Some of us may have to avoid this show if they drift too far into, "Jon had this master plan all along, and how great that the plan is coming together!"

I especially think about his kids.  Now matter how great this plan seemed to be, they will be forever damaged by Jon's suicide.

[Gothish520]

2 hours ago, smartymarty said:

So how come nobody on the show realizes this? They keep saying "we don't know the reason he killed himself," but if they merely Googled "depression," the comment would be "we didn't realize he was depression." Chronic depression is a condition just like Type 1 diabetes. There is no "I'm depressed about X." You're just depressed. It drives me nuts that Jon's wife (I can't remember names yet) hasn't sat down with her kids and explained this to them, and if not her, than really any other freaking character! We have the internet, people!

I think the first comment is more accurate. And now I'm going to contradict myself about depression and say that, sometimes, depression is more like Type 2 diabetes, in that it's situational. Rome's depression may be linked to his occupational situation, that he's not the success he wanted to be. Though that's easier understood by the person suffering. If he's chronically depressed, then his job situation is just a symptom -- a non-chronic depressed person would either accept his lot in life or have the motivation to change it.

I don't like that Rome hasn't shared this all with his wife despite sharing it with his friends. Is his marriage really not as strong as his friendships? I suppose that's what we're supposed to think, and because the Four Musketeers were just sooo, so close, even closer than with their wives. But, barf. I'd prefer they portray a more realistic (or healthy) marriage -- have his wife know but not his friends.

Finally, I do not find it realistic that Eddie would not have listened to the voice mail the same day Jon died. Just because Eddie knew he didn't answer because he was in bed with Jon's wife doesn't mean he could make the logical leap that Jon knew. The call could have been about anything, and certainly on the day of the suicide, with everyone wondering what was going on, he'd be interested in what Jon called about, maybe even ask if anyone else got a call. And yeah, I predicted that Jon would give his blessing.

I don't understand why there is police tape in front of the doorway 10 days later. I don't understand it being there in the first place. There is nothing there to suggest a murder, and even if, the patio is small enough for the police to collect any evidence the day of. If the police really suspected murder, the whole office would be cordoned off, NOT the door open to anyone who wants to walk in.

Anyone find the father-daughter dance competition creepy? First I thought it was just a Father-Daughter dance, in which case the daughter didn't have to go and nobody would notice. Then seeing that it was just 10-or-whatever couples, still, the girl whose dad just died could have cancelled out without much comment. And then to make it a competition?? Just weird. Must be some very wealthy school, too, to rent out that ballroom just for the sake of 10+ girls. (Why no mother-son dances?)

They specifically mentioned in the episode that the father-daughter dance was not a competition. 

 And I think the guys just stepped up because it appeared that the daughter was upset and disappointed that her dad wasn't there to take her to the dance. It seemed like it meant a lot to her. Which, thinking about it now, is really the creepy part, because I feel like if I was in that situation the last thing I would give a crap about is some dance.

ETA: as for Rome's situation, I completely agree that it bugs me that he hasn't told his wife. 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Gothish520

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, smartymarty said:

So how come nobody on the show realizes this? They keep saying "we don't know the reason he killed himself," but if they merely Googled "depression," the comment would be "we didn't realize he was depression." Chronic depression is a condition just like Type 1 diabetes. There is no "I'm depressed about X." You're just depressed. It drives me nuts that Jon's wife (I can't remember names yet) hasn't sat down with her kids and explained this to them, and if not her, than really any other freaking character! We have the internet, people!

I think there are two reasons. 1 - they're so close to it and grieving, they are not looking for a generic answer about everyone. They're looking for specific reasons and circumstances because 2 - Jon never appeared depressed or seemed like he was struggling.

Some people who kill themselves are clearly struggling, and families and loved ones have been on that journey with them. So while the loss wouldn't be any less horrific, they wouldn't have quite the same questions.

And finally - just because there's the internet doesn't mean that everyone turns there (I do, so I get what you're saying - I just know lots of people who don't even think about going there to find out answers, weird as that seems)

[HazelEyes4325]

52 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

ETA: as for Rome's situation, I completely agree that it bugs me that he hasn't told his wife. 

 

I'm actually not surprised by this.  I think it has been made clear that part of Rome's thing is to always be the person there for everyone else and to ask someone, even his wife, to be there for him might go against his very nature.  This, I think, is Rome's main character flaw (this shouldn't need to be said, but depression is not a character flaw).

What surprises me is that Maggie hasn't said anything to Regina.  I mean, they've become the best of friends over the several hours they've known each other (smirk).  Maggie is not Rome's psychologist and is therefore not bound by client/patient confidentiality.  And Maggie seems to lack most boundaries, so I think it would actually be in character for her to tell Regina.

[Court]

On 10/4/2018 at 2:16 AM, izabella said:

What did Ashley do with that life insurance policy?  Why did she think it was her right to open the folder that was clearly labeled Delilah?   What games is she playing?

Not only to open it but then keep it a secret. This is more disgusting than an affair. 

 

Affairs are awful but I do understand how they happen. I need to see that John has some flaws eventually.

[Gothish520]

10 hours ago, Court said:

Not only to open it but then keep it a secret. This is more disgusting than an affair. 

 

Affairs are awful but I do understand how they happen. I need to see that John has some flaws eventually.

It could be that Jon had some major flaws, and it could be that Ashley is actually trying to protect Delilah and the kids. Pure speculation on my part, but maybe that's the twist. Because it certainly appears that Ashley is very shady right now, and finding out what she's up to and that it's a bad thing really would not be a surprise. The surprise would be if she is actually trying to protect them.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Gothish520

[topanga]

1 hour ago, Gothish520 said:

It could be that Jon had some major flaws, and it could be that Ashley is actually trying to protect Delilah and the kids. Pure speculation on my part, but maybe that's the twist. Because it certainly appears that Ashley is very shady right now, and finding out what she's up to and that it's a bad thing really would not be a surprise. The surprise would be if she is actually trying to protect them.

 But if Jon wrote Delilah some kind of note or letter, why hasn’t she given it to her? Especially since Delilah has asked about a note several times. Right now, I don’t trust Ashley at all. 

[HazelEyes4325]

27 minutes ago, topanga said:

 But if Jon wrote Delilah some kind of note or letter, why hasn’t she given it to her? Especially since Delilah has asked about a note several times. Right now, I don’t trust Ashley at all. 

What little we saw of the letter in this episode, it definitely looked like Jon was up to some shady deals and that he was leaving some directions for Delilah to deal with.  While I think it is beyond ridiculous that Ashley took that letter, opened it, AND never even told Delilah about its existence is pretty low down, I can see how Ashly *might* have motives that she considers altruistic (but, let's face it, probably aren't).

[OpalNightstream]

I hate when shows like this will bring in a stranger (Maggie in this case) who fits in right away and becomes part of the close knit group within the span of a few hours. Just have her be a part of the group from the start. That would have been more believable. 

[doodlebug]

48 minutes ago, OpalNightstream said:

I hate when shows like this will bring in a stranger (Maggie in this case) who fits in right away and becomes part of the close knit group within the span of a few hours. Just have her be a part of the group from the start. That would have been more believable. 

Exactly. Or maybe have her be an old school friend of one of them who the others have maybe met a time or two and Gary just started seeing.  It makes no sense that Maggie became an intimate so quickly when she had no prior connection to any of them prior to meeting Gary the day before the funeral.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, topanga said:

 But if Jon wrote Delilah some kind of note or letter, why hasn’t she given it to her? Especially since Delilah has asked about a note several times. Right now, I don’t trust Ashley at all. 

 

1 hour ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

What little we saw of the letter in this episode, it definitely looked like Jon was up to some shady deals and that he was leaving some directions for Delilah to deal with.  While I think it is beyond ridiculous that Ashley took that letter, opened it, AND never even told Delilah about its existence is pretty low down, I can see how Ashly *might* have motives that she considers altruistic (but, let's face it, probably aren't).

When Ashley was looking at the paperwork that Jon left for Delilah the only thing that stood out to me was “Ashley has no idea I am doing this”. That was right before she finds something behind a painting. I did not catch anything else in the letter but it left me with the impression she was looking out for her own interests. 

[topanga]

12 minutes ago, Dani said:

 

When Ashley was looking at the paperwork that Jon left for Delilah the only thing that stood out to me was “Ashley has no idea I am doing this”. That was right before she finds something behind a painting. I did not catch anything else in the letter but it left me with the impression she was looking out for her own interests. 

Good eye. I hate it when TV shows rely on us to pick up clues based on a few second shot of an important letter. Not everyone can pause their television or enlarge the screen images. And some of us simply have bad eyes. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by topanga

[possibilities]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I hate when shows like this will bring in a stranger (Maggie in this case) who fits in right away and becomes part of the close knit group within the span of a few hours. Just have her be a part of the group from the start. That would have been more believable. 

I agree it makes no sense from a reality standpoint. I think they do it from a writing standpoint, because it gives them someone to explain things to (which is really just a device to explain things to the audience) and also because they wanted more than one person with a lot of mystery and secrets they can unpack after Jon's secrets are exposed. I think it's hacky writing, but that's why I think they do it.

 

2 hours ago, Dani said:

When Ashley was looking at the paperwork that Jon left for Delilah the only thing that stood out to me was “Ashley has no idea I am doing this”. That was right before she finds something behind a painting. I did not catch anything else in the letter but it left me with the impression she was looking out for her own interests. 

Ah! I missed that. She also deleted a bunch of files off his computer in the first episode. I can almost never see clearly what is on the screen of people's phones or computers on tv shows, even if I pause it. I wish it wasn't becoming a standard storytelling device to use screenshots as plot drivers.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, topanga said:

Good eye. I hate it when TV shows rely on us to pick up clues based on a few second shot of an important letter. Not everyone can pause their television or enlarge the screen images. And some of us simply have bad eyes. 

 

11 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Ah! I missed that. She also deleted a bunch of files off his computer in the first episode. I can almost never see clearly what is on the screen of people's phones or computers on tv shows, even if I pause it. I wish it wasn't becoming a standard storytelling device to use screenshots as plot drivers.

That’s my problem with the entire mystery storyline. Every scene about it involves Ashley alone doing shady things with no dialogue. 

I was curious enough that I decided to find the scene again and I took a screenshot. 

Right after she reads the letter she pulls life insurance papers from behind a painting. 

[topanga]

26 minutes ago, Dani said:

I was curious enough that I decided to find the scene again and I took a screenshot. 

Right after she reads the letter she pulls life insurance papers from behind a painting. 

This is very helpful. Thanks 

[Court]

4 hours ago, Dani said:

 

When Ashley was looking at the paperwork that Jon left for Delilah the only thing that stood out to me was “Ashley has no idea I am doing this”. That was right before she finds something behind a painting. I did not catch anything else in the letter but it left me with the impression she was looking out for her own interests. 

It told Delilah to find something behind the painting which I think was the life insurance policy. Ashley looked there and took it instead.

[HazelEyes4325]

What I'm catching from that letter is "Please know th(at I tried to) stop this.  I tried everything." (Parenthesis indicate the gap I filled).  I'm pretty sure we're heading down the road to some sort of business/financial crisis which...doesn't really belong in this show.

[echo.Echo.ECHO]

On October 11, 2018 at 6:18 PM, HazelEyes4325 said:

What surprises me is that Maggie hasn't said anything to Regina.  I mean, they've become the best of friends over the several hours they've known each other (smirk).  Maggie is not Rome's psychologist and is therefore not bound by client/patient confidentiality.  And Maggie seems to lack most boundaries, so I think it would actually be in character for her to tell Regina.

Interesting. See, I think it would be out of character for her to tell Regina. I know the situation is slightly different, but I'm basing this on Maggie's reaction to hearing that her oncologist told her ex that she'd skipped her appointment. (Even though I do agree that her boundaries are slippery.)

On October 11, 2018 at 5:22 PM, Gothish520 said:

And I think the guys just stepped up because it appeared that the daughter was upset and disappointed that her dad wasn't there to take her to the dance. It seemed like it meant a lot to her. Which, thinking about it now, is really the creepy part, because I feel like if I was in that situation the last thing I would give a crap about is some dance.

The daughter was upset because she thought her dad had forgotten about her. I think the dance was simply the device that was used to show her he hadn't. (But yeah, it was kind of weird overall.)

[Anela]

On 10/10/2018 at 11:59 PM, PepSinger said:

That house would cost $6-8 million. There are some houses near where I live in Boston that don't have NEARLY the yard that house does, and I know they would go for $4.5 million if sold. Also, I wouldn't drink Dunkin' Donuts, either. That is brown water that masquerades as coffee. YUCK.

I don’t drink coffee, but dad hates DD coffee. 

[shapeshifter]

On October 4, 2018 at 10:14 PM, saoirse said:

Rome is a lost soul - I feel like he thought he'd be the next big thing as a director, and part of his depression is that he's not the nu-Spielburg (or insert other big director here). 

I just realized that Rome's situation is pretty much Eddie's story too—as the musician who didn't make it big but still identifies as a musician.
We were shown Delilah as the instigator of the affair, while at home, even though Katherine supported Eddie financially, she also expressed a lot of resentment towards Eddie rather than any emotional support, which could have made him feel doubly worthless and left him vulnerable to Delilah's advances. 
I wonder if the moral of the season's story will be that the fates of Jon, Rome, and Eddie could have easily have been swapped—that Jon could've had an affair with Katharine while Eddie killed himself, or if Rome had killed himself, Jon might've gotten together with Roberta over the restaurant when it was revealed that Eddie and Delilah were together.
Maybe there will be a reveal of a broken relationship in Gary's past too that mirrors the others' relationships.
 

[SlovakPrincess]

Oh come on.  No fucking way building security would let Rome in that late at night, especially not to the office with the police tape all over the death balcony.   For some reason, these are the little things that drive me nuts.  

The kids are sweet, and it's heartbreaking that they are going through this awful mess ... with possibly more turmoil to come if they ever find out about their mom and Eddie.

[Jillybean]

On 10/11/2018 at 5:19 PM, HazelEyes4325 said:

The 2nd episode is better than the first (and the 3rd is better than the second).  I'd give it a try for at least another episode or two.  I think it was saddled with a flawed pilot...

Thanks. We watched the 2nd episode and we're definitely out. The character relationships don't make sense, and much of what we are shown just doesn't ring true. I wonder if this is why the commercials tell you what you are supposed to feel. If the show evoked emotion, that wouldn't be necessary.

Side note: I looked up the actress who plays Delilah because her accent was so obviously not American, I wanted to know where she was from (France).

[TaurusRose]

On 10/9/2018 at 3:28 PM, HazelEyes4325 said:

Actually, she wasn't blaming Eddie for forgetting her briefcase.  The promo edited the scene to make it look as such, but the scene itself played out differently.  She came home because she forgot her briefcase and she was irritated because she was behind schedule due to a misstep by a co-worker.  If anything that scene in the bedroom made Katherine *more* sympathetic to me, because I saw how frazzled and overwhelmed she was...which is probably why her comment to Rome about the funeral being an all-day thing hit me more as thoughtless than insensitive.  I also have no reason to believe that what she said to Delilah at the funeral was anything but genuine.

I think going forward she'll be more prominently featured which will hopefully shed some light on things.  It could be she turns out to be as toxic as Eddie says--I just don't see any evidence of that yet.

I agree with the part I reprinted and snipped the part about being unable to reconcile the actress with the character because I don’t agree with the sentiment or really understand it.  There aren’t many actors I truly can’t stand for whatever reason, but when I come across one I don’t watch anything they’re in, Jennifer Aniston and Kevin Hart for example.  LOL