S16.E29: Steve Bannon, Neil deGrasse Tyson, April Ryan, Evelyn Farkas, and Max Brooks

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Steve Bannon, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Evelyn Farkas, Max Brooks, April Ryan

[formerlyfreedom]

A reminder that discussion in this topic is to discuss this episode of the show. This is NOT a place to discuss current events or news of the day, or follow up to discussion on the show, or follow up to events discussed on the show.

Posts that go off topic from the episode will be removed, and repeat offenses may result in warnings or more. Thank you.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I CANNOT believe Bill gave 22 minutes to that douchetastic ASSHOLE Bannon.

I loved and ?? at Max Brooks’ “He’s like Blanche Dubois:’Mah Honah has been besmirched’” mocking Kavanaugh. And other impersonations of Kavanaugh.

Bill was okay for most of the show. 

New Rules was a another solid hit this week.

The Commandments had me ????????

[GoldenGirl90]

I frankly cannot believe that Bill gave Steve Bannon a platform to spew his nonsense. Not really sure how I feel about that segment just yet.

Also not sure why he felt the need to bring up Hillary Clinton not coming on his show. Well, I guess I get it but IDK. It wasn't really necessary for him to bring up but whatever.  

Edited September 29, 2018 by Alexis2291

[sistermagpie]

It's unbelievable with everything that's gone on that anyone would think there was anything normal people could get from listening to Steve Bannon. He's given the obvious fact that Trump's tax cut steals money from everyone but the filthy rich and gives it to them and Bannon...what does Bill think he's going to do? Admit that he'd been caught? Try to defend them honestly and fail? Of course not! He spun absolute nonsense and Bill sat there and listened to him--and probably will somebody else who will see it as proof that Steve Bannon is right and Trump is really a genius economist who's got that evil China right where he wants it and not what he clearly is, an incurious, ignorant blowhard whose only actual genius is in finding a way to respond to every comment as if it proves he's smart.

One other thing that made me realize how important things like #MeToo is is when Bill was saying how maybe Kavanaugh wasn't really going to rape her and they were just horsing around and trying to scare her or whatever. And yes, that might very well be true. But why do the white guy's motivations always take precedent? Her experience of the incident was of course that he was trying to rape her. How else would anyone experience being pulled into a room, thrown down on a bed and having some guy pin you down and cover your mouth while trying to pull your clothes off while he and his friend laugh? Yet we should hesitate before calling him a rapist because it didn't get that far.

Yet in other situations the exact opposite becomes the default. Every time a police officer shoots an unarmed black person it doesn't matter that the guy wasn't reaching for a gun, didn't have a gun, that the hulking man was actually a 12-year-old boy wasn't doing whatever thing the cop thought he was doing. Then it doesn't matter, all that matters was that the police officer was scared so he was justified in shooting and the victim deserved to die.

You can tell who has the power by whose motivations make them more innocent.

[angelamh66]

I almost didn't watch because of Bannon. That guy is just dangerous. But I'm glad I watched. New Rules was excellent. The mid-show yearbook thing was good too. And Max Brooks's Kavanaugh as Blanche DuBois was everything!

[crookedjackson44]

I had hoped that Maher would really dive into Bannon and grill him.  He's done it to others.  But he mostly softballed him and let him bloviate.  The rest of the show was good.  Great panel, and anytime Dr. Tyson shows up is a treat.

[CaliCheeseSucks]

Pretty good show but then again, I completely skipped past the Bannon segment. Nice to have a panel where all three people got opportunities to speak and absent any one negative personality drain.

[scrb]

I thought he tried to challenge Bannon several times, didn’t let him spew his talking points uninterrupted.

April Ryan liked the sound of her voice too much.  For a WH correspondent, she seemed to let the. It applause get to her a little too much.

I’d rather have heard more from the other two panelists.

Wish someone would have pointed out how the right-wing prioritizes the Supreme Court far more than center left voters, how they understood the long term stakes — lifetime appointments.  

Bill has talked about purity tests imposed by some liberal voters, who refused to vote for the lesser of two evils, who drew a false equivalence between Trump and Clinton and either didn’t vote or voted third party.  

This is part of the reason Trump won and why we’re faced with the prospect of this lying, rabid partisan getting a lifetime appointment on the Court.  As Bill said, if we can have a predator in the White House, why not on the Court?

[Calamity Jane]

Holy guacamole, did Bannon get off the sauce?  Find the Fountain of, well, not Youth but Looking a Bit Better?  A year ago I thought he would fall down dead from seizures or stroke or something - he looks pretty good on this show.  His rhetoric is repugnant to me, but he is at least capable of assembling sentences into coherent conversation.  And I agree with Bill that we need to listen to people like him who fostered what's happening right now and figure out what their deepest game is.  

6 minutes ago, scrb said:

Wish someone would have pointed out how the right-wing prioritizes the Supreme Court far more than center left voters, how they understood the long term stakes — lifetime appointments.  

Bill has talked about purity tests imposed by some liberal voters, who refused to vote for the lesser of two evils, who drew a false equivalence between Trump and Clinton and either didn’t vote or voted third party.  

This is part of the reason Trump won and why we’re faced with the prospect of this lying, rabid partisan getting a lifetime appointment on the Court.  

It's all about the Supreme Court, always has been, they keep their eye on the prize.  Everything else they want comes more easily if they have the court for a generation.  We need some of that long-sightedness on the Democrat side, and maybe the ghost of LBJ to kick some a** when needed.  

[sistermagpie]

25 minutes ago, Calamity Jane said:

Holy guacamole, did Bannon get off the sauce?  Find the Fountain of, well, not Youth but Looking a Bit Better?  A year ago I thought he would fall down dead from seizures or stroke or something - he looks pretty good on this show.  His rhetoric is repugnant to me, but he is at least capable of assembling sentences into coherent conversation.  And I agree with Bill that we need to listen to people like him who fostered what's happening right now and figure out what their deepest game is.  

But did Bannon's talking points help him figure out that game? Isn't the deep game obvious already? For instance, he brought up that Trump's middle/working class voters didn't get a tax break. But those are probably the only people who maybe believed that they'd be getting a tax break along with the bigotry that they like. It's no mystery why it didn't happen--Trump had no economic plan. He doesn't understand economics or taxes, he just pays people to get him out of paying them. Bannon doesn't care about the middle class getting a fair shot either. So he was ready for that point just started talking, using words like "China" and "re-aligning the markets" making points that I'm sure would sound like gobbledygook to an economist (they did to me) but is great for somebody who loves Trump for the white supremacy and just wants somebody who sounds like he knows what he's talking about to reassure him that it's all part of Trump's big plan to help him. Bill himself pointed out that Bannon himself probably doesn't think Trump's anything other than a moron, but it's not like Bannon admitted that. On the contrary, he said he was brilliant.

Likewise when Bill asked him "as a strategist" who got Trump elected what Hillary should have done. But again, we know what he thought Hillary should do because he's his specialty isn't political strategy, it's pushing his Nazi-type beliefs. So of course his advice, like the "advice" of all conservatives is that she should stop "scolding" people for being bigoted and basically switch to his value system instead of hers.

So it seems like the deepest game here is already known by everybody--and if you want someone to explain it it's not going to be somebody like Bannon, it's going to be the person who studies propaganda and the far-right movements and knows that polls show that the biggest indicator of being a Trump supporter is a belief that "the other" is taking away what's rightfully yours. Those people are usually liberals. Steve Bannon's just going to say he's a populist who cares about the little guy and supports Trump because he's a genius who's taking power away from the undeserving elites and finally giving a voice to those oppressed by the Left (like the Republicans and Kavanaugh who were given courage by Trumps batshit press conference), which is just what he said on the show. The real discussion of the deep game came from the panel, complete with a great Lindsay Graham impression. (Also great analysis of him as the beta male in search of another leader--that sort of thing also seems important to understanding conservatives at the moment.)

[iMonrey]

It was all I could do to stomach the Bannon interview. It is beyond the pale that Bill would even have someone like that on the show. It's one thing to have Milo Yiannopoulos or Rick Santorum - that's bad enough. But to engage someone as responsible as Bannon is for the mess we're in right now is inexcusable. Whatever bug Bill has up his ass about trying to prove he's fair and balanced or whatever the hell he's doing has got to stop. There just isn't any point in giving someone like that another platform to spew their lies. When your premise begins with "Trump is a very smart man" your argument is already lost. Maybe Bill likes the thrill of challenging these people but it serves no purpose. It's a colossal waste of time.

I agree with scrb that April Ryan dominated the conversation in a way that was annoying, especially in the beginning. She seemed to be all over the map and I wasn't even sure what her point was. 

Good new rule about religion and I'll just say I completely agree.

Tyson was kind of insufferable on Overtime. His philosophy seems to be "be nice to stupid people." That gets you nowhere. And that, Bill, is why Republicans are in power. Not because they're so brave, but because they exploit the stupid people in a way that Democrats do not. 

[ganesh]

They pointed out early in the panel, while we might not know exactly what happened, Bad Brett's entitlement and screeching at the committee should be disqualifying alone. 

I have to disagree with Bill in the monologue. This is classic Flake - acting like he's so concerned and then just voting the party line. 

Bill is right though that Kavanagh was totally acting. 

Edited September 29, 2018 by ganesh

[ganesh]

I just find Tyson an insufferable boor. I get the concept of a 'space force' because we actually have Space Command, but everyone knows damn well that's not even remotely was Trump was talking about. 

And actual AI researchers and experts aren't worried. So stop it. 

OT - the absolute gall of Tyson saying not to condescend to people who aren't as educated. What a jerk. 

Edited September 29, 2018 by ganesh

[ganesh]

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Bill himself pointed out that Bannon himself probably doesn't think Trump's anything other than a moron, but it's not like Bannon admitted that. On the contrary, he said he was brilliant.

There was a good parallel with Palin and Trump and I wished Bill pushed more on that. 

I can get having Bannon on (didn't know he was on the show before) to ask, as a political analyst, to handicap the midterms and 2020. I mean, the guy did essentially create Trump. But once he started doing his deal, Bill needed to just shut that down. I thought the interview was going to be way worse. 

Why did Bill make the remark about 'disinviting'? Was he disinvited from something? 

[wknt3]

I thought it was a surprisingly good show. Solid monologue. Bill actually did a decent job with Steve Bannon. Of course I'm grading on a curve a bit, but I think he really did try to challenge Bannon and his ideas and didn't let him spout his talking points mostly uninterrupted. I think his near-death, or at least near-cancellation experience with Milo actually did teach him a lesson. The panel was pretty good with nobody shouting and an engaged Bill (and TWO women! at the same time!). NdGT didn't go as far overboard as he sometimes has on the show before. And New Rules was great! Overtime was meh, but I can live with that since I was expecting this show to completely suck.

1 hour ago, ganesh said:

Why did Bill make the remark about 'disinviting'? Was he disinvited from something? 

I seem to remember him mentioning something about Berkeley once or twice before...

[lamujerdecente]

8 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

But did Bannon's talking points help him figure out that game? Isn't the deep game obvious already? For instance, he brought up that Trump's middle/working class voters didn't get a tax break. But those are probably the only people who maybe believed that they'd be getting a tax break along with the bigotry that they like. It's no mystery why it didn't happen--Trump had no economic plan. He doesn't understand economics or taxes, he just pays people to get him out of paying them. Bannon doesn't care about the middle class getting a fair shot either. So he was ready for that point just started talking, using words like "China" and "re-aligning the markets" making points that I'm sure would sound like gobbledygook to an economist (they did to me) but is great for somebody who loves Trump for the white supremacy and just wants somebody who sounds like he knows what he's talking about to reassure him that it's all part of Trump's big plan to help him. Bill himself pointed out that Bannon himself probably doesn't think Trump's anything other than a moron, but it's not like Bannon admitted that. On the contrary, he said he was brilliant.

Likewise when Bill asked him "as a strategist" who got Trump elected what Hillary should have done. But again, we know what he thought Hillary should do because he's his specialty isn't political strategy, it's pushing his Nazi-type beliefs. So of course his advice, like the "advice" of all conservatives is that she should stop "scolding" people for being bigoted and basically switch to his value system instead of hers.

So it seems like the deepest game here is already known by everybody--and if you want someone to explain it it's not going to be somebody like Bannon, it's going to be the person who studies propaganda and the far-right movements and knows that polls show that the biggest indicator of being a Trump supporter is a belief that "the other" is taking away what's rightfully yours. Those people are usually liberals. Steve Bannon's just going to say he's a populist who cares about the little guy and supports Trump because he's a genius who's taking power away from the undeserving elites and finally giving a voice to those oppressed by the Left (like the Republicans and Kavanaugh who were given courage by Trumps batshit press conference), which is just what he said on the show. The real discussion of the deep game came from the panel, complete with a great Lindsay Graham impression. (Also great analysis of him as the beta male in search of another leader--that sort of thing also seems important to understanding conservatives at the moment.)

I get mad when Bill has the lowest common denominators like the Bannon trash but then I remember Bill Mahr's viewers tend to be political junkies like myself. I don't people predisposed to believe that man's well-grammared hatred. That said you can see Bill's misogyny when he ventures into #metoo.

[formerlyfreedom]

Again - STICK to the show. Posts that go off from the topic will be removed. If you think a post is off topic, report it.

[Pete Martell]

I had to laugh when Bill Maher tried to say that one of the reasons Democrats aren't in power is because they don't come on his show. Maher was never relevant enough to have that level of influence, and my guess is many voters likely remember him more for his few years as the sidekick of Vera's husband on "Alice" than they do for the last 25 years he's spent smirking into the camera. 

There's nothing compelling about what Steve Bannon has to say. If Steve Bannon had any actual power, he wouldn't be appearing on Maher's show in the first place, just as Milo, Maher's last newfound best friend who was used and discarded by the conservative movement, never had any actual power. Trump's populist views are a core part of who he is and were effective with voters, which isn't down to Bannon. There is a reason why Bannon has flailed and flailed this past year and lost most of the cachet he had - it's because he never had a lot of real say.

To me what Maher is actually saying is - You're important if you talk to me, because I'm so important and I'm so intelligent and I'm showing my vast intelligence by listening to you go on and on even though we don't agree. 

It is the typical narcissistic blather that defines cable news and much of the news media. They don't really care what viewers feel as long as viewers know how above it all they are. 

No one, absolutely no one, in the country would have had any great insight by Bannon speaking at the New Yorker Festival, just as I doubt anyone will here. It was a publicity attempt in both cases - one that backfired badly for the New Yorker. It won't backfire on Maher because this is exactly who he is and what he has been for a very long time, but I doubt it will get much of a reaction. 

Polarization is a bad thing, but the best thing about it is that phony, pretend "thinkers" like Maher who make a game of being so above "both sides" are more and more obsolete - and they know it.

[iMonrey]

Quote

To me what Maher is actually saying is - You're important if you talk to me, because I'm so important and I'm so intelligent and I'm showing my vast intelligence by listening to you go on and on even though we don't agree. 

No, I think what Bill is trying to prove is that he is willing to engage with the opposite side and doesn't live in a left-leaning bubble. The problem is there's no point to it. He's never going to change anyone's mind or get anyone like Bannon to acquiesce or admit anything. It's just two sides talking at each other without accomplishing anything. He's proven this time and time again so I don't know why he keeps doing it. These people aren't "brave" for doing his show. They're getting the same thing out of it that he is - credit for engaging with the opposing side. Except, they aren't engaging, really. They bloviate and the obfuscate and they stick to their talking points and even lie to Bill's face and when confronted with facts they pivot and ignore and go back to their talking points.

Quote

I had to laugh when Bill Maher tried to say that one of the reasons Democrats aren't in power is because they don't come on his show.

What he's saying is that Republicans are braver than Democrats. I think he has a valid point but it's more that they're more brazen. 

[Victor the Crab]

Bill, has it ever occurred to you that the reason Democrats, like Hillary Clinton, won't appear on your show is not because they're afraid, but because you're an enormous hateful dickhole that is of no help to them? Remember you're Flip A District campaign where you tried to get voters of Minnesota's First not to send Jon Kyle back to Congress? That went well, didn't it? [eyeroll] And the only reason President Obama agreed to your whinny crybaby demands to be on your show was to get your audience to go out to the polls on election day.

Bill's interview with Steve Bannon was exactly what I though it would be. A complete waste of time. Bill allowed Bannon's outrageous POV to flow without him feeling heat, and asked his advice what Democrats should do. As if a neo Nazi like Bannon knows what's best for liberals. Bill should know by now that when you give out an invitation to the likes of Bannon, Ann Coulter, and that Milo douche to appear on your show, they win. Their obnoxious viewpoints get legitimized and they get the added satisfaction of pissing off your audience as these people have tweeted to him.

[The Mighty Peanut]

On 9/29/2018 at 4:33 PM, wknt3 said:

 

I seem to remember him mentioning something about Berkeley once or twice before...

A lesser comedian would bring it up so much one could not help but wonder if he has begun to question his own relevancy.

Bannon sucked but I didn't hate the interview as much as others did. Bill did tell him he seeks empty vessels to fill with his propoganda. He reminded Bannon he got fired by Trump, too. It wasn't great but it wasnt awful, IMO.

Edited October 1, 2018 by The Mighty Peanut

[Hanahope]

I loved the New Rules where Maher said that Hitler, Stalin and Mao weren’t necessarily anti god, they just wanted to be god, and trump was the same  And then he compared trump to Old Testament god and it was perfect.  I thought it was very inciteful.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Hanahope