The Spanish Princess - General Discussion

[Bill1978]

9 hours ago, Norma Desmond said:

So, apparently, with only 2 episodes to go, the Boleyn angle won't play a big part at all. Neither will the fall of Margaret Pole, Thomas More, Stafford, Wolsey, etc

I'm not surprised they aren't tackling the Boleyns. The upside to this series is the focus on pre-Anne. Plus when this series finishes,, we can all just pull out our copy of The Other Boleyn Girl (if you are keen to keep following the Gregory view of history) OR rewatch the Tudors which helps cover all of these people you mentioned. As trashy as this series is (and the predecessor series), I have enjoyed learning (even if lots of it is fiction) about the Tudors era pre-Boleyn (I swear Hollywood only thinks Henry matters because of The Great Matter). I even enjoyed learning about The War of the Roses through the White Queen. I am honestly bored of Henry and his wives AND Elizabeth I. I would love a series covering Edward, Jane and Mary. And I personally think the Stuarts would make a great soap opera series.

[Haleth]

2 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

I am honestly bored of Henry and his wives AND Elizabeth I.

Yeah, Anne Boleyn has been done to death.  No pun intended.  (That said, Wolf Hall is the best.  Both books and tv series.)  This series will probably end with an intro to Anne.  

And once again the show had me worried about Lina and/or Ovieto.  Stop it, show!

Anyone know of a good biography about Margaret Tudor?  

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

I would love a series covering Edward, Jane and Mary. And I personally think the Stuarts would make a great soap opera series.

Yes!!! I would love a series that starts with  Henry’s death and ends with Mary’s. 
 

Also, a series detailing the return of Charles II after the restoration, his romance with Nell Gwen/Moll Davies, James II and his strife with his daughters, the Glorious Revolution, Queen Anne’s marriage and tragic prenatal history ending with her death and the introduction of George I. 

39 minutes ago, Haleth said:

And once again the show had me worried about Lina and/or Ovieto.  Stop it, show!

I know. I love them. But Oviedo shouldn’t have been so proud. Lina and the boys should’ve been at the palace, it’s safer, with Lina heavily pregnant and so much unrest- they stick out, anything could’ve happened. 
 

I understand Oviedo had a duty to patrol, but Lina and the boys should’ve just taken up some rooms at the palace when the court left. 

[Darlin]

I'm hoping Starz doesn't do a retread of The Other Boleyn Girl. There were so many *extreme* historical inaccuracies in that movie.

I read that Starz is coming out with a TV series on the early/teenage years of Elizabeth I that appears to have nothing to do with any of the Phillipa Gregory books. Thru that series we may get to see Catherine Parr.  I don't know if this series means the end of the Phillipa Gregory adaptations.  I hope not. They are trashy, inaccurate but addictive. I would like to see the adaptation on Lady Jane Grey and the teenage and later years of Mary I.

 

[Darlin]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

And once again the show had me worried about Lina and/or Ovieto.  Stop it, show!

Anyone know of a good biography about Margaret Tudor?  

I read an interview the producers gave last year about the riots in England targeting foreigners and how they were "looking forward" to bringing that story to life. I was actually dreading this episode, but heavily relieved Oveido and Lina survived!

[TidalCreek]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Also, a series detailing the return of Charles II after the restoration, his romance with Nell Gwen/Moll Davies, James II and his strife with his daughters, the Glorious Revolution, Queen Anne’s marriage and tragic prenatal history ending with her death and the introduction of George I. 

The Last King with Rufus Sewell in the role of Charles II is fabulous, though it deals only with C2. I'd like to see a series on James II through George I (and all the Georges) -- right up to Victoria. And then we have several Victoria movies/TV series to get us through that period.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0364800/?ref_=fn_al_tt_2

 

[tennisgurl]

I feel like the season might end with the big introduction of Anne Boleyn, I am fine with them leaving the Boleyn drama for later. So many stories about the Tudors focus so much on Anne Boleyn that so many of the other people involved get pushed to the side. This show is The Spanish Princess after all, and we still have some time before Anne takes over as queen and heads really start rolling. 

I know this show has done time jumps, but it did give me some whiplash at Mary going from a baby to a six year old so quickly, but I am glad that Catherine is finally paying her daughter some attention. It was nice to see Rosa again and that she is doing well, and that she had some warm words for Catherine. Also interesting seeing the introduction of her nephew Charles V, who would be a big factor later when Henry tried to annul his marriage to Catherine. You can already see some foreshadowing of that, when he threw out that "they call you the other king right?" crack at Wollsey in front of Henry, clearly trying to help drive a wedge between Henry and Catherine rival. Yeah, you better watch yourself Wollsey, Henry is quick to get tired of people, and its not good to be a person Henry is tired of, especially in the coming years. 

This show really needs to stop putting Oviedo and Lina in danger, its just too stressful! Oviedo really should have sent Lina and the boys to the castle faster, they were in real danger, especially since Lina is pregnant. Oviedo really is just the best guy, he sympathizes even with the people ranting about wanting to throw people like him and his family out of the country, saying how he understands why they are desperate and makes the very reasonable observation that immigrants and travelers and the poor English are basically in the same boat. He even managed to momentarily calm the riot down and got some of the rioters to start heading home, before Henry Poole killed a guy and made everything worse. Henry, don't bother trying too hard to be loyal to the king, its really not going to matter much for you in the end...

Taking another moment to enjoy the costume design this season, they really have outdone themselves. 

[CountryGirl]

I do wonder if the RL Katherine was so distant with Mary. The Tudors portrayed her as very loving with Mary from a young age. I could see it - the distance - with Katherine disappointed that Mary was not the son she was hoping for and also possibly afraid of becoming attached. I loved that they didn't show Mary immediately warming to her finally-showing-her-some-interest mother.

It was nice to see Rosa again and that she got her happy ending. So was her oldest daughter their child or did something happen to her love child with Stafford Sr.?

ITA about messing with my BP where Lina and Oveido and their precious babies are concerned.

Finally and this is silly, but I can't help wishing for an alternate universe where the baby Katherine is carrying now is a boy and lives or her first son, Henry, had lived. Having struggled with infertility and childless not by choice, I can absolutely empathize with her pain.

A little bit off topic but I always had a soft spot for Katherine and Anne (and yes, also wished for Anne to have a son that lived). I even felt bad for Katherine Howard as she was a teenager swept up in something far bigger than she could comprehend until it was far too late. (namely that her husband was batshitcrazy by then). Katherine Parr outlived him and Anne of Cleaves got the sister treatment so I was glad for them. Jane Seymour, I should feel sad for as she died in childbirth, but I never really cared for her. 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

It was nice to see Rosa again and that she got her happy ending. So was her oldest daughter their child or did something happen to her love child with Stafford Sr.?

Rosa had a miscarriage (with the Stafford Sr pregnancy) before she went back to Spain. Her eldest child was her husband's child. 

 

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

I do wonder if the RL Katherine was so distant with Mary. The Tudors portrayed her as very loving with Mary from a young age. I could see it - the distance - with Katherine disappointed that Mary was not the son she was hoping for and also possibly afraid of becoming attached. I loved that they didn't show Mary immediately warming to her finally-showing-her-some-interest mother.

IRL Katherine was very close to Mary (for a royal/aristocratic mother)- they had a great affection for each other. When Mary was born alive, even though she was a girl, it was a joyous occasion, and when she lived past infancy there was hope that a healthy brother would follow- Katherine was still well within her childbearing years, and although not "young" by Tudor standards she had two live births under her belt, hope was not lost that she would have a son for several more years. 

 

Spoiler

Given that Katherine seemed to have conceive pretty consistently, but only had two live births out of 7 recorded pregnancies and so many 2nd and 3rd trimester miscarriages, she likely had an incompetent cervix- in the 21st century her Ob/gyn would put her on bed rest and put a stitch her in cervix to get her to term, and perhaps give her steroids so the fetus' lungs would grow- but nothing they could do back then. 

 

[Carolina Girl]

On 11/16/2020 at 1:04 PM, CountryGirl said:

I do wonder if the RL Katherine was so distant with Mary.

She doted on her daughter, and began educating her herself in Latin and Spanish from a very young age.  Henry was also very very fond of his daughter.  Of course, at that time, neither suspected that Katherine would be unable to produce the hoped-for boy.  The fact that Mary was born alive, healthy and survived past the usual age of infant mortality was considered a good sign.  A quote attributed to Henry at this time is "We are both young. If it was a daughter this time, by the grace of God the sons will follow."

[qtpye]

On 11/16/2020 at 12:37 PM, tennisgurl said:

I feel like the season might end with the big introduction of Anne Boleyn, I am fine with them leaving the Boleyn drama for later. So many stories about the Tudors focus so much on Anne Boleyn that so many of the other people involved get pushed to the side. This show is The Spanish Princess after all, and we still have some time before Anne takes over as queen and heads really start rolling. 

I know this show has done time jumps, but it did give me some whiplash at Mary going from a baby to a six year old so quickly, but I am glad that Catherine is finally paying her daughter some attention. It was nice to see Rosa again and that she is doing well, and that she had some warm words for Catherine. Also interesting seeing the introduction of her nephew Charles V, who would be a big factor later when Henry tried to annul his marriage to Catherine. You can already see some foreshadowing of that, when he threw out that "they call you the other king right?" crack at Wollsey in front of Henry, clearly trying to help drive a wedge between Henry and Catherine rival. Yeah, you better watch yourself Wollsey, Henry is quick to get tired of people, and its not good to be a person Henry is tired of, especially in the coming years. 

This show really needs to stop putting Oviedo and Lina in danger, its just too stressful! Oviedo really should have sent Lina and the boys to the castle faster, they were in real danger, especially since Lina is pregnant. Oviedo really is just the best guy, he sympathizes even with the people ranting about wanting to throw people like him and his family out of the country, saying how he understands why they are desperate and makes the very reasonable observation that immigrants and travelers and the poor English are basically in the same boat. He even managed to momentarily calm the riot down and got some of the rioters to start heading home, before Henry Poole killed a guy and made everything worse. Henry, don't bother trying too hard to be loyal to the king, its really not going to matter much for you in the end...

Taking another moment to enjoy the costume design this season, they really have outdone themselves. 

Does anyone know if this show will get more seasons? If it does, I can see them bringing up AB next season. I wonder if they will change out the actors who play Catherine and Henry (similar to the Crown) or just leave them young and gorgeous even when they are supposed to be old and past their prime. Old age makeup usually looks horrible.

Edited November 19, 2020 by qtpye

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

Does anyone know if this show will get more season? If it does, I can see them bringing up AB next season. I wonder if they will change out the actors who play Catherine and Henry (similar to the Crown) or just leave them young and gorgeous even when they are supposed to be old and past their prime. Old age makeup usually looks horrible.

No I don’t think so- there are other Philippa books to adapt, we may get a version of The Other Boleyn Girl/The Boleyn Inheritance. You know I’d actually love The Boleyn Inheritance, give us Anne of Cleves on her on terms, and a more nuanced portrayal of Katherine Howard. 

[childeroland]

On 11/16/2020 at 4:34 AM, Bill1978 said:

I'm not surprised they aren't tackling the Boleyns. The upside to this series is the focus on pre-Anne. Plus when this series finishes,, we can all just pull out our copy of The Other Boleyn Girl (if you are keen to keep following the Gregory view of history) OR rewatch the Tudors which helps cover all of these people you mentioned. As trashy as this series is (and the predecessor series), I have enjoyed learning (even if lots of it is fiction) about the Tudors era pre-Boleyn (I swear Hollywood only thinks Henry matters because of The Great Matter). I even enjoyed learning about The War of the Roses through the White Queen. I am honestly bored of Henry and his wives AND Elizabeth I. I would love a series covering Edward, Jane and Mary. And I personally think the Stuarts would make a great soap opera series.

Another series covering Mathilda and the Anarchy or one covering Henry I and the Normandy conquest would be fun.

[Norma Desmond]

Poor Stafford. And Oviedo payed for him to have a good death. My heart. Oviedo is the best character. The moral center.

I think we'll get to see at least Wolsey's fall. I am looking forward to the finale. Wonder if Lina and Oviedo will go back to Spain, though, from what I've read, the real Lina stayed in England.

[t7686]

On 11/16/2020 at 4:34 AM, Bill1978 said:

I'm not surprised they aren't tackling the Boleyns. The upside to this series is the focus on pre-Anne. Plus when this series finishes,, we can all just pull out our copy of The Other Boleyn Girl (if you are keen to keep following the Gregory view of history) OR rewatch the Tudors which helps cover all of these people you mentioned. As trashy as this series is (and the predecessor series), I have enjoyed learning (even if lots of it is fiction) about the Tudors era pre-Boleyn (I swear Hollywood only thinks Henry matters because of The Great Matter). I even enjoyed learning about The War of the Roses through the White Queen. I am honestly bored of Henry and his wives AND Elizabeth I. I would love a series covering Edward, Jane and Mary. And I personally think the Stuarts would make a great soap opera series.

Agreed! I’ve always wanted a focus on Edward. But I think Mary I and Jane would be great too. 

[Haleth]

Having really enjoyed the Wolf Hall series I keep waiting for Cromwell to show up.  I guess he was still too behind the scenes at this point.

17 hours ago, childeroland said:

Another series covering Mathilda and the Anarchy or one covering Henry I and the Normandy conquest would be fun.

Mathilda vs Stephen is a side story in Pillars of the Earth.  A few months ago I read Dan Jones's The Plantagenets that covers Henry I to Henry V.  Really, any one of the reigns would make a fascinating series.  Some of them were doozies.

Topic?  Lina and Oviedo were not threatened (much) this episode.  Yay!  Elsewise it was kind of graphic, with Buckingham's beheading and More's blood covered torture chamber.  

One more episode, yes?

[tennisgurl]

So begins one of Henrys favorite hobbies, having his friends, family, right hand men, and lots of other random people put to death for stupid reasons. It really is rather unnerving in this show watching Henry hanging out with so many people that we know he is going to have violently killed in the following years, this is just the beginning. Poor Stafford, killed for having the audacity to mention that arresting people and burning books might not be the best way to deal with unrest, at least he went out with dignity, and Oviedo had his back and paid for his death to be quick, because Oviedo is the best. So much blood, and Henry couldn't even be bothered to show up to see the execution of one of his best friends that he ordered.

Really glad that Lina told Catherine to get a grip and stop being so dogmatic about the protestants, Catherine is lucky to have such a good friend. Its sad how much she has to try to keep Henry interested in her, especially as she increasingly sees how mercurial he is becoming. I do feel like the show is skipping a lot of Henry and Catherine, they did have several good years where they were quite happy, but I guess we are heading faster and faster towards Anne and the end of their marriage with all of the time jumps, and most of their better years were in the in-between, and to a lesser extent earlier this season. 

I highly doubt that Thomas Moore was just torturing people in his family home, but I can certainly see Maggie being really upset by it. Very few people in this whole story come out with their hands totally clean. At least Ursula's marriage seems to be happy, and Maggie can hold onto that, especially after her fears about her daughters arranged marriage. 

I think that we might end next week on the fall of Wosley, as Catherine has already seen the writing on the wall with him, and the introduction of the Boleyn's and Thomas Cromwell. 

Was little Mary throwing some books on the bonfires foreshadowing? I think that a series that shows the time period between Henrys death and Elizabeth's reign, focusing on Mary, Edward, and Lady Jane, would be really interesting. Do we have the next Gregory adaptation already lined up?

Edited November 24, 2020 by tennisgurl

[brisbydog]

God Catherine NEVER shuts up. I'm sure the real one did not constantly run her mouth off interrupting Henry and Wolsey. Her voice exhausts me

Yeah for sure Thomas More tortured people for fun in his basement in Chelsea. THAT happened

Henry; Grows Beard. Becomes Evil overnight

Way to give Stafford time to prepare himself for death and say prayers executioner. Geez

Team Meg!!

I guess next up will be the horror show of The Other boleyn Girl with all its vilification of Anne.  Would love to skip that and go right to the Boleyn Inheritance, which I actually enjoyed, and which has not had fifty on screen versions. I hated Gregory's Catherine Parr book too but quite liked the DownFall of Margaret Pole one. Hit and Miss with this author for me

[qtpye]

That was brutal...poor Stafford. 

Now we do not have a sexy eye patch guy on the show😞

This executioner was very effective and he used a sword and rather than an axe (always preferable) but I could not help think about what a horror show some of the executions (including Cromwell) actually were. As awful as this was...it was comparatively well done. 

In all the Tudor novels, everyone wants to be at court and get in good with the monarch (particularly Henry VIII)…. I would stay as far away as possible and bide my time in the country.

Being a friend, lover, or advisor to Henry has very poor survival odds and this was even before he had his horrible fall (during the Anne Boleyn years) when he became much worse.

[Norma Desmond]

6 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Now we do not have a sexy eye patch guy on the show😞

Yep. Love me some Olly Rix.

Wasn't the technique the executioner used - to throw something near the victim to make them look the other way so they won't notice the sword coming - actually used with Ann Boleyn? Either way, poor Stafford.

 

Article on the finale: Anne will not be given the time of day in Catherine's series. Oh yeah!

 

Don't lose your head! Get your first look at Anne Boleyn on The Spanish Princess

[brisbydog]

I feel like there was a different sexy eye patch guy on the Tudors. Anne's cousin? Francis Bryan I think

Anne of Cleves was the smart one, she just agreed with everything Henry said and made out with a few nice castles and an allowance for life. The funniest moment in Six the Musical (where each wife competes with a song to see who had the worst of it with Henry) is after she sings her tune and says "I am not winning this am I?"

I just hate hate hate Gregory's version of Anne Boleyn. I really hope we just skip it and maybe do the Margaret (I refuse to call her Maggie) Pole book

 

 

[Scarlett45]

18 hours ago, brisbydog said:

Anne of Cleves was the smart one, she just agreed with everything Henry said and made out with a few nice castles and an allowance for life. The funniest moment in Six the Musical (where each wife competes with a song to see who had the worst of it with Henry) is after she sings her tune and says "I am not winning this am I?"

Ha YES! I loved Six I saw it at the Chicago Shakespeare Theatre in 2019, 

 

19 hours ago, brisbydog said:

Would love to skip that and go right to the Boleyn Inheritance, which I actually enjoyed, and which has not had fifty on screen versions.

Ditto! Can we get the Boleyn Inheritance on our screens? Should we start a social media petition?

[brisbydog]

The EW article infuriated me with the 'quip' that Anne was a witch and they don't want her near Catherine. I realize it is the Gregory line that Catherine was a saint and Anne was an incestuous insane murdering whore (and Henry VII was a wife raper and Richard III was the BESTEST ever) but aren't we beyond that point where we blame the women when Henry was the one forcing them into relationships they did not necessarily want and no power to say no to? I think any show that perpetuates that any woman had any choice in that era is doing a disservice to them. Bad enough Catherine seems to think on this show she can overrule the King and speak her mind frequently and loudly. 

[NeenerNeener]

On 11/16/2020 at 12:37 PM, tennisgurl said:

Taking another moment to enjoy the costume design this season, they really have outdone themselves. 

Yeah, this season the clothes and jewelry have been spectacular, even when the story lines were weak.

[t7686]

 

Spoiler

I think they ended it nicely. Just right at the beginning of the part everyone knows. I’d love to see Mary I get similar treatment (seemed a little like they were setting it up) or something with Mary Queen of Scots, Lady Jane Grey & Mary I similarly to how they had Henry’s wife and sisters the focus here.

 

Charlotte Hope did a good job of showing Catherine’s desperation and eventual acceptance though I didn’t like that she admitted that she “wasn’t a maiden” and the Maggie told on her - a little too far into the fiction side of historical fiction for me. 
 

It’s sad that everyone ended up hating or at the very least apart from one another - did Margaret Tudor really grow to hate her brother and Catherine that much?

 

[Norma Desmond]

Goodbye, series! It was nice watching you. And Catherine wore a fabulous black dress as a farewell. I enjoyed how they ended things, without Catherine's last, miserable years. It was refreshing.

I know the free bird thing's got to be a metaphor, though, who is the bird supposed to represent? Not Catherine or Mary, for sure, as they were never free of Henry's horrors.

 

 

[Scarlett45]

14 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

Yeah, this season the clothes and jewelry have been spectacular, even when the story lines were weak.

It was absolutely stunning. 
 

I liked Season 1 better than season 2 (probably because the early years of their marriage are done rarely, but more than Katherine’s years as Arthur’s widow before she married Henry) but I was so very happy to to see Lina and Oviedo have a happy ending. 

[qtpye]

12 hours ago, Norma Desmond said:

Goodbye, series! It was nice watching you. And Catherine wore a fabulous black dress as a farewell. I enjoyed how they ended things, without Catherine's last, miserable years. It was refreshing.

I know the free bird thing's got to be a metaphor, though, who is the bird supposed to represent? Not Catherine or Mary, for sure, as they were never free of Henry's horrors.

 

 

The most depressing thing about the ending is we know none of these people had good endings in real life.

I did enjoy the series and was happy we actually had a Catherine with the correct coloring.

How the heck could Henry’s sister fall for Angus when you had this guy’s forefathers running around? 

[Norma Desmond]

A goood read on the choices the showrunners made about the finale. And STARZ will have an Elizabeth I series, though not done by the same showrunners.

 

The Spanish Princess creators on the series finale and giving Catherine a proper send-off

[Haleth]

Yeah, a somber but not hopeless ending was satisfying. At least our Lina and Oviedo escaped the coming purge.

I knew that black gown was a shout out to the famous portrait!

Im not sure what the point was of having Meg go BSC. Or having Anne get naked for Henry. (I don’t know if it’s just in fiction that she teased and taunted but never let him touch her until he put a ring on it.). Hi, Mary Boleyn!  Bye, Mary Boleyn!  Guess you weren’t worth mentioning. 

[Darlin]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

Yeah, a somber but not hopeless ending was satisfying. At least our Lina and Oviedo escaped the coming purge.

I knew that black gown was a shout out to the famous portrait!

Im not sure what the point was of having Meg go BSC. Or having Anne get naked for Henry. (I don’t know if it’s just in fiction that she teased and taunted but never let him touch her until he put a ring on it.). Hi, Mary Boleyn!  Bye, Mary Boleyn!  Guess you weren’t worth mentioning. 

I kept waiting for Meg to acknowledge her child with Angus, and then realized they conveniently left that out. This Meg exhausted me.  At times I pitied her, other times I found her annoying and I blamed her for her own misfortune.  I'm not sure how accurate this portrayal of Meg was to the real Queen Margaret, but from what I read she had poor taste in men.

[AryasMum]

17 hours ago, t7686 said:

 

  Hide contents

I think they ended it nicely. Just right at the beginning of the part everyone knows. I’d love to see Mary I get similar treatment (seemed a little like they were setting it up) or something with Mary Queen of Scots, Lady Jane Grey & Mary I similarly to how they had Henry’s wife and sisters the focus here.

 

Charlotte Hope did a good job of showing Catherine’s desperation and eventual acceptance though I didn’t like that she admitted that she “wasn’t a maiden” and the Maggie told on her - a little too far into the fiction side of historical fiction for me. 
 

It’s sad that everyone ended up hating or at the very least apart from one another - did Margaret Tudor really grow to hate her brother and Catherine that much?

 

Just speaking for myself, I have no desire for more Mary I.  Gregory has a way of making even the most sympathetic people unlikable to me - talking to you Maggie Pole.  I just won’t tune in to watch Blood Mary roasting Protestants alive, and contemplating killing her younger sister.  
 

I obsessively google while watching Gregory shows because they are so wildly inaccurate.  Regarding Meg’s hating of Henry, did the show cover Meg’s and Angus’s daughter, Lady Margaret?  I fast forwarded the vast majority of their relationship as Angus has the most punchable face I’ve ever encountered.  According to google, Margaret was considered a favorite of Henry’s in her youth. She got into some trouble, as did her Aunt Mary, for choosing men not approved by her uncle. The first unfortunate dude died in The Tower for his daring. 
 

Also of interest, Margaret’s son marries Mary, Queen of Scots.  So, yes, this means that Meg’s grandchildren wed and bred. Then the resulting son was made heir of England by Elizabeth I.  Talk about family wreaths. 

[AryasMum]

4 hours ago, qtpye said:

The most depressing thing about the ending is we know none of these people had good endings in real life.

I did enjoy the series and was happy we actually had a Catherine with the correct coloring.

How the heck could Henry’s sister fall for Angus when you had this guy’s forefathers running around? 

I agree it was nice to finally see a properly colored Catherine. Too bad they still got it wrong with little Mary, who’s hair color was inherited from both parents. 

16 hours ago, Norma Desmond said:

Goodbye, series! It was nice watching you. And Catherine wore a fabulous black dress as a farewell. I enjoyed how they ended things, without Catherine's last, miserable years. It was refreshing.

I know the free bird thing's got to be a metaphor, though, who is the bird supposed to represent? Not Catherine or Mary, for sure, as they were never free of Henry's horrors.

 

 

Perhaps the metaphor occurs the next day, when Anne and Henry pick up the conveniently laying about crossbows, and shoot the poor bird, who is utterly helpless after living fifteen years in a tiny cage, right out of a tree. 

[AryasMum]

39 minutes ago, Darlin said:

I kept waiting for Meg to acknowledge her child with Angus, and then realized they conveniently left that out. This Meg exhausted me.  At times I pitied her, other times I found her annoying and I blamed her for her own misfortune.  I'm not sure how accurate this portrayal of Meg was to the real Queen Margaret, but from what I read she had poor taste in men.

Yes. Turns out Meg wanted to divorce hubby three, too.  

 Meg wasn’t as devoted to Scotland as portrayed. At some point, Meg started revealing state secrets to Henry. Against her own son. What a miserable woman. 

[cameron]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

Yeah, a somber but not hopeless ending was satisfying. At least our Lina and Oviedo escaped the coming purge.

I knew that black gown was a shout out to the famous portrait!

Im not sure what the point was of having Meg go BSC. Or having Anne get naked for Henry. (I don’t know if it’s just in fiction that she teased and taunted but never let him touch her until he put a ring on it.). Hi, Mary Boleyn!  Bye, Mary Boleyn!  Guess you weren’t worth mentioning. 

Actually, just went back and rewatched last night's episode.  That gown was deep navy blue not black.  Everything that she wore in that scene were in different hues of navy blue.

[tennisgurl]

I think I liked season one better, as the early years of Catherine and Henry aren't explored very often and I enjoy seeing the buckets of dysfunction that is the Spanish royal family, but I still thought this was a fun season and I am happy with how the show ended. Mary going off to her exile, still with fire and dignity, skipping her sad final years but still closing out her story. I am also glad we only got a little bit of Anne, enough to see what is coming, but not enough that the narrative becomes too much about her in Catherine's story. This felt like a great farewell to Catherine and this era of the Tudors before everything got even more bloody. It was somber, but also not totally miserable and broken and with dignity, like Catherine ended up. 

I am especially glad that Lina and Oviedo, the shows best characters, managed to get out while they still could. Knowing the sad endings of most of the historical characters, its nice that they got a happy ending at least. The show kept teasing killing one or both of them, I am so glad that they not only made it but got away with a happy ending. 

The black/dark blue dress had to be a shout out to the famous portrait of Catherine, she looked really stunning. In general, I endlessly applaud the costumes on this show, they are always so lovely and intricate. This episode was super melodramatic and lacking in historical accuracy even by this shows standards, but everyone sure looked amazing. 

So who do we get next? Do we go back in time or forward? 

[AryasMum]

13 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I think I liked season one better, as the early years of Catherine and Henry aren't explored very often and I enjoy seeing the buckets of dysfunction that is the Spanish royal family, but I still thought this was a fun season and I am happy with how the show ended. Mary going off to her exile, still with fire and dignity, skipping her sad final years but still closing out her story. I am also glad we only got a little bit of Anne, enough to see what is coming, but not enough that the narrative becomes too much about her in Catherine's story. This felt like a great farewell to Catherine and this era of the Tudors before everything got even more bloody. It was somber, but also not totally miserable and broken and with dignity, like Catherine ended up. 

I am especially glad that Lina and Oviedo, the shows best characters, managed to get out while they still could. Knowing the sad endings of most of the historical characters, its nice that they got a happy ending at least. The show kept teasing killing one or both of them, I am so glad that they not only made it but got away with a happy ending. 

The black/dark blue dress had to be a shout out to the famous portrait of Catherine, she looked really stunning. In general, I endlessly applaud the costumes on this show, they are always so lovely and intricate. This episode was super melodramatic and lacking in historical accuracy even by this shows standards, but everyone sure looked amazing. 

So who do we get next? Do we go back in time or forward? 

My favorite of the three is definitely The White Queen. While Edward did cheat, there was true love there and they were happy for many years. 
 

I told myself I wouldn’t like this season as there’s too much death, miscarriages, and unhappiness. But they even managed to make it worse than I dreamed by making Catherine a cold, unloving mother.   It makes me wonder if there’s even a drop of truth there, as Elizabeth and Lizzie were portrayed as warm, loving mothers.  

[Scarlett45]

Just now, AryasMum said:

My favorite of the three is definitely The White Queen. While Edward did cheat, there was true love there and they were happy for many years. 

The White Queen was definitely the best- the acting was very good. Rebecca Ferguson, Max Irons and James Fran all BROUGHT IT. And Janet McNeer!

[Norma Desmond]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

The White Queen was definitely the best- the acting was very good. Rebecca Ferguson, Max Irons and James Fran all BROUGHT IT. And Janet McNeer!

And Aneurin Barnard ♥

The White Queen is my favorite, too, followed by The Spanish Princess. Didn't care much for The White Princess.

George's death by Malmsey Wine still haunts me.

 

[AryasMum]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

The White Queen was definitely the best- the acting was very good. Rebecca Ferguson, Max Irons and James Fran all BROUGHT IT. And Janet McNeer!

And minimal makeup. Elizabeth had bare eyes and visible freckles. This season’s Catherine has caked on makeup. It’s so distracting. 

[AryasMum]

3 minutes ago, Norma Desmond said:

And Aneurin Barnard ♥

The White Queen is my favorite, too, followed by The Spanish Princess. Didn't care much for The White Princess.

George's death by Malmsey Wine still haunts me.

 

And the pitiful Neville daughters. Why does Philippa Gregory believe she’s empowering historical women by turning them into shrewish, power-hungry, amoral villains?

[EvilApplesauce]

5 hours ago, AryasMum said:

Just speaking for myself, I have no Also of interest, Margaret’s son marries Mary, Queen of Scots.  So, yes, this means that Meg’s grandchildren wed and bred. Then the resulting son was made heir of England by Elizabeth I.  Talk about family wreaths. 

Not to single your comment out, but wasn't Margaret's son James the father of Mary, Queen of Scots? Maybe you meant to say that Margaret's grandson Lord Darnley married Mary, Queen of Scots? 

[EvilApplesauce]

I found out about this show through an ad on my smart TV, and I binge-watched season 1 in a single day! I hope that STARZ made some other historical drama miniseries about medieval royalty, because I'm definitely interested in watching them all!

Like the rest of you have been saying, the costumes in this show were just glorious, especially given that it was a TV show and not a movie with a blockbuster budget. I kind of felt like the finale episode was a bit rushed and showed some things that weren't really necessary (for example, why show Meg blasting canons at Angus in a somewhat cartoonish way that suggested she won the battle, when in actuality the real Angus went on to control King James for years until he was old enough to get rid of his regent? Catherine trying to get back to her horse after being abandoned by the lake ate some screen time. And what was the point of Anne Boleyn undressing outdoors?). But it was great to see Lina and Oviedo get a happy ending, and Catherine's ending was about as optimistic as we could ask for and tied in nicely with how the show started 🙂

Poor Lady Pole looked like she'd aged 10 years overnight just being back at court. Henry's Harry Styles haircut was beginning to drive me crazy, so I'm glad that the show was a miniseries only for that reason, lol! But I'll really miss this show 🙂

[Haleth]

From the noted article it sounds like the creators of the series is done with the Tudors.

[AryasMum]

42 minutes ago, EvilApplesauce said:

Not to single your comment out, but wasn't Margaret's son James the father of Mary, Queen of Scots? Maybe you meant to say that Margaret's grandson Lord Darnley married Mary, Queen of Scots? 

I think the confusion comes in because “Meg”, Margaret Tudor, named her daughter Margaret Douglas. So Margaret T’s granddaughter married Margaret D’s son.  So “Meg’s” grand-children were married to each other.  It’s complicated by the show’s insistence on calling Margaret Tudor “Meg”, and the ignoring of her daughter with Angus, Margaret Douglas. 

[EvilApplesauce]

1 hour ago, AryasMum said:

I think the confusion comes in because “Meg”, Margaret Tudor, named her daughter Margaret Douglas. So Margaret T’s granddaughter married Margaret D’s son.  So “Meg’s” grand-children were married to each other.  It’s complicated by the show’s insistence on calling Margaret Tudor “Meg”, and the ignoring of her daughter with Angus, Margaret Douglas. 

Gotcha! Thanks for clearing things up 🙂 yeah that's weird, I wonder why the show pretended that Margaret Douglas never existed!

[greekmom]

The ending was interesting except for letting go of the bird. Sorry I have 2 green cheek conures and it would break my heart if birds that are pets are let go. They don't know how to survive.

Interesting how they had Maggie Pole betray Catherine.  Catherine to her dying day never admitted she slept with Arthur.  I guess that's the fiction part.  Did Maggie ever confess that to Henry? Because I do know that she was eventually killed due to trump up charges of treason.  I guess she was the last of the Plantagenets in court?!

Interesting how things turn out. I wonder if Mary was more like Elizabeth and didn't press for people to revert to Catholicism and just allowed people to practice their own religion if she would have lasted longer on the throne and have a better rep than Bloody Mary!?!?

Henry has gone pretty nutty thinking that god will grant him a dozen sons.  I wish we could have seen Worslley get his.

 

[AryasMum]

49 minutes ago, greekmom said:

The ending was interesting except for letting go of the bird. Sorry I have 2 green cheek conures and it would break my heart if birds that are pets are let go. They don't know how to survive.

Interesting how they had Maggie Pole betray Catherine.  Catherine to her dying day never admitted she slept with Arthur.  I guess that's the fiction part.  Did Maggie ever confess that to Henry? Because I do know that she was eventually killed due to trump up charges of treason.  I guess she was the last of the Plantagenets in court?!

Interesting how things turn out. I wonder if Mary was more like Elizabeth and didn't press for people to revert to Catholicism and just allowed people to practice their own religion if she would have lasted longer on the throne and have a better rep than Bloody Mary!?!?

Henry has gone pretty nutty thinking that god will grant him a dozen sons.  I wish we could have seen Worslley get his.

 

Yes, Henry did go a little Ragnar Lothbrok in his obsession with having sons. 
 

It’s thought Mary died of cancer, although there was also during a flu epidemic, so I don’t think she would have lived longer on the throne. I imagine she would have been thought better of, though. 

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

The ending was interesting except for letting go of the bird. Sorry I have 2 green cheek conures and it would break my heart if birds that are pets are let go. They don't know how to survive.

Interesting how they had Maggie Pole betray Catherine.  Catherine to her dying day never admitted she slept with Arthur.  I guess that's the fiction part.  Did Maggie ever confess that to Henry? Because I do know that she was eventually killed due to trump up charges of treason.  I guess she was the last of the Plantagenets in court?!

Interesting how things turn out. I wonder if Mary was more like Elizabeth and didn't press for people to revert to Catholicism and just allowed people to practice their own religion if she would have lasted longer on the throne and have a better rep than Bloody Mary!?!?

Henry has gone pretty nutty thinking that god will grant him a dozen sons.  I wish we could have seen Worslley get his.

 

Here it feels like they are trying to say Catherine's lying is the main reason he goes for Anne (after her sister) and not because he is besotted with her. In other versions if feels like Catherine's lack of virginity is something he and Cromwell pull out of their arses because he is so obsessed with Anne.

[Carolina Girl]

If you can ever get a chance to see it, check out Annette Crosbie’s Catherine of Aragon opposite Keith Michell’s Henry VIII  in the old PBS series “The Six Wives of Henry VIII” from the early 70’s.  Even though she was a little long in the tooth to play the young Catherine, you don’t care.  Historically accurate and wonderful.