The Spanish Princess - General Discussion

[Scarlett45]

I have to say I’m buying Catherine’s social descent and the beginning of her desperation. I know this is fiction as Henry has been aged up so much but I’m buying his petulant attitude given the man he becomes. 

Why is Henry VII letting his Mom be such a bitch to everyone for no reason?

My heart does break for Margaret Poole. She found love in her arranged marriage to Richard and with his death forced into poverty. To have to send your children away because you cannot feed them- one thing to accept it for a better opportunity for them, an education or advancement....but because you cannot keep them safe. My god I was almost moved to tears when they dropped Reggie off at the monastery. 

[theschnauzers]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Why is Henry VIII letting his Mom be such a bitch to everyone for no reason?

I’m not sure if your trying to refer to Harry or Henry VII, or to the late Queen or to the Dowager Queen Mother who is Harry’s grandmother. In the two earlier limited series, the White Queen and the White Princess, she was a bitch to watch. No redeeming qualities, and it made on sympathetic to the Yorks as a whole. She’s not doing the Tudors any favors, either.

I’m glad they got to the extended period when Catherine is ambassador to the English court for her father.  It certainly puts her in a much better position vis a vis the Queen Mother, and the latter has to become more circumspect because Catherine has her father’s support being in England.

[Scarlett45]

21 minutes ago, theschnauzers said:

I’m not sure if your trying to refer to Harry or Henry VII, or to the late Queen or to the Dowager Queen Mother who is Harry’s grandmother. In the two earlier limited series, the White Queen and the White Princess, she was a bitch to watch. No redeeming qualities, and it made on sympathetic to the Yorks as a whole. She’s not doing the Tudors any favors, either.

I’m glad they got to the extended period when Catherine is ambassador to the English court for her father.  It certainly puts her in a much better position vis a vis the Queen Mother, and the latter has to become more circumspect because Catherine has her father’s support being in England.

I meant Henry VII (typing too fast) letting Margaret Beaufort be a raging bitch. When he was new on the throne and insecure I could see it, at this point he’s a middle aged man letting his Mom over run his authority. 

[tennisgurl]

On 6/11/2019 at 4:42 PM, andromeda331 said:

LOL! That's probably true. Compared to the rest of his family, Philip's practically Adonis. 

Philip is the hot one because he actually has a nose AND ten fingers and toes 😉 

I keep forgetting about this show and then randomly checking in with it. Just keeping up with who is all who and who is related to who is exhausting! Its like a Wikipedia add with a shit ton of costume changes.

Edited June 17, 2019 by tennisgurl

[nodorothyparker]

10 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Why is Henry VII letting his Mom be such a bitch to everyone for no reason?

She was pretty much like that her whole life.  Henry Tudor's claim to the throne, such as it was, was through her and she spent years while he was exiled in Brittany plotting and making alliances to put all the pieces into place to even give him the shot at winning the throne.  As we saw in the previous series, because he had spent so much of his life abroad he had a hard time even knowing the kingdom he was ruling and he was highly dependent on his mother and his wife to advise him and provide what allies they could.  It didn't help that most of his reign was marked by one plot after another to overthrow him, leaving him with almost no one he could trust out of that very small circle. 

Margaret Beaufort was probably one of the most powerful women to have never actually been queen.  This is a woman who created her own title My Lady the King's Mother and drew up all kinds of rights and responsibilities for herself that no other woman had ever had and her son just signed off on them.

[andromeda331]

You have to love Catherine bragging about Spain having female queens to Margaret right after her father stole her sister's throne. Well, it certainly worked out so well for Joanna didn't it? 

I'm not exactly sure why Margaret is ruling either or why Henry 7 seems to be doing nothing. I hate Margaret and would love to see her comeuppance.

I don't really like anyone either.

All the love talk from Catherine is annoying and she seems shocked that no one else seems to care. Ah, that's the way it goes in royal marriages Catherine alliances are more important then love. Yes, they'd marry Harry off to someone he hated and who hated him if it meant a better deal for England. She always seems so shocked by that. I kind of wish they'd go more of her being surprised to realize they like each other and how rare that is rather then constantly talk about love. 

I do like that they remembered Catherine being her father's ambassador.

[nodorothyparker]

Gah, enough with all the love talk in this latest episode.  Sure, it was nice when the participants in these marriages learned to like or even love each other, but none of the people involved here would have at all thought it a serious consideration in who they did or didn't marry.  Marriage among royalty was all about alliances and every last one of these people knew that, no matter how many gauzy high pitched fantasies about burning love letters the show might throw together.  I'm guessing the show figures that's a more interesting angle to play than the reality of this particular situation, though, where it was years of letters and negotiations and dickering over money back and forth between the Tudor court and whoever happened to be running Spain that week.  Catherine's increasing desperation as her financial resources and position in England dwindled as the Tudors tried to basically starve her into giving up and going home was at least decently done.

Uh, Margaret, you were pretty much resentful your whole life that you were married off to an adult man at 12 and all but crippled by birthing Henry at 13.  Yes, it eventually worked out in the longterm when your adult son won the throne, but maybe don't be selling child marriage to young Princess Mary as the greatest thing ever.

I liked Catherine's dig at Margaret Beaufort about how she should have been the rightful queen if only England wasn't so darned old-fashioned like that.  The only reason the Tudors were ever a thing was her own claim though John of Gaunt, but England up to that point hadn't had a successful queen and wasn't about to start for her.  All the special airs and rights she ensured for herself as My Lady the King's Mother could certainly be read as as her trying to make up for her having to accept that consolation prize.  I appreciate that the show gave us the followup to Joanna the Mad's story, which is one of how easy it was for a female ruler to be usurped by her male relatives.

I feel like I say poor Maggie Pole every week, but again poor Maggie Pole.  

[Bill1978]

10 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I feel like I say poor Maggie Pole every week, but again poor Maggie Pole

I would literally watch a series dedicated to this lady's story. Well maybe not a series based on Gregory's views but Margaret Pole definitely deserves to be a lead role in a series.

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

I would literally watch a series dedicated to this lady's story. Well maybe not a series based on Gregory's views but Margaret Pole definitely deserves to be a lead role in a series.

That would be a really interesting story.

[CountryGirl]

Actually, my husband is a direct descendant of Margaret Pole, which I'm sure plenty of others can claim. So far, I haven't found ties to any famous (or infamous) ancestors.

I'd love to see a series on Margaret.

[Mrs Eyre]

On 6/17/2019 at 1:12 PM, nodorothyparker said:

She was pretty much like that her whole life.  Henry Tudor's claim to the throne, such as it was, was through her and she spent years while he was exiled in Brittany plotting and making alliances to put all the pieces into place to even give him the shot at winning the throne.  As we saw in the previous series, because he had spent so much of his life abroad he had a hard time even knowing the kingdom he was ruling and he was highly dependent on his mother and his wife to advise him and provide what allies they could.  It didn't help that most of his reign was marked by one plot after another to overthrow him, leaving him with almost no one he could trust out of that very small circle. 

Margaret Beaufort was probably one of the most powerful women to have never actually been queen.  This is a woman who created her own title My Lady the King's Mother and drew up all kinds of rights and responsibilities for herself that no other woman had ever had and her son just signed off on them.

No, she wasn't.  Her efforts while he was in exile were all focused on getting his title and patrimony back, no thought of the throne because there were about 8 people between him and it for most of his life.  

Edward IV and Margaret discussed Henry marrying one of Edward’s daughters, including Elizabeth of York. Edward and many others were tired of the civil strife and finally recognized the benefit of bringing Henry Tudor into the Yorkist camp. There exists a draft pardon of Henry along with the terms of his return but it was never ratified due to the unexpected death of Edward IV in April of 1483. 

I'm not sure where you get the idea that Henry  "just signed off on" any and all demands she made.  She enjoyed a position of influence and power, but the king was very much the king. Foreign emissaries remarked that although the king listened to his mother he did what he wanted.

The fact is that Gregory hates the Tudors with the power of a thousand suns and there is no calumny too great (pre marital rape anyone?  Beaufort murdering Jasper Tudor and the princes in the Tower? HVII being a pitiful cry baby?) for her to dream up.  Take anything she writes about anyone with a shovel of salt.

[Mrs Eyre]

On 5/23/2019 at 7:06 PM, nodorothyparker said:

I'm realizing how much I like the imagery in the opening credits of this one.

I'm always a little sad for her when I read about her dying in childbirth at the ripe old age of 37 after having spent her entire married life mostly at the whims of her zealous overbearing mother-in-law 

She really didn't;  there is no evidence to support this narrative and plenty to suggest that Elizabeth and Margaret B worked well together, even combining forces to make the king postpone young Margaret's journey to Scotland on the grounds that she was too young if the Scottish king decided not to wait to consummate the marriage.  The king acknowledges in his letter to James that he is acting at the request of the Queen and his mother in this.  They were involved in joint charitable works and MB kept rooms at Collyweston for the Queen permanently at the ready.  The nasty old cow also put Elizabeth's sister up when she angered the king by marrying without his permission.

[bluestocking]

Farewell My Lady the King's Mother.  I've been watching this for Harriet Walter, who I've loved since the BBC did the Harriet Vane/Peter Wimsey stories.  

I wonder if we'll get the Henry/Katharine marriage next season, or they'll just skip it because of the expense.  I like my costume drama.  

[Scarlett45]

On 6/23/2019 at 8:39 PM, bluestocking said:

Farewell My Lady the King's Mother.  I've been watching this for Harriet Walter, who I've loved since the BBC did the Harriet Vane/Peter Wimsey stories.  

I wonder if we'll get the Henry/Katharine marriage next season, or they'll just skip it because of the expense.  I like my costume drama.  

I assume we will get the marriage- the Anne Boleyn days have been done to death, but not so much in their marriage. I’m assuming Part 2 will detail their relationship and the breakdown of that as Katherine continues to have still births and Henry starts becoming obsessive , ending with Anne Boleyn showing up. 

Or did you mean we may not get the WEDDING?

[bluestocking]

Yes, I meant the WEDDING!  

[theschnauzers]

I wonder how small that private wedding will be given the imminent funeral of Henry VIi, then the Queen Grandmother.

i’d expect “Something” as new King Henry sets out to clean up the mess he inherited.

Edited June 26, 2019 by theschnauzers

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, bluestocking said:

Yes, I meant the WEDDING!  

Ah. Yes I think so. They already have the costumes. 

[Haleth]

Was that the last epi of the season?  That was pretty tense.  I wondered if the writers would have the guts to kill Ovieto (or whatever his name is), but I'm glad he survived.  It was sad that Katherine realized that she and Henry had both lied and that their marriage was going to be starting off with neither of them trusting the other.

[CountryGirl]

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

  It was sad that Katherine realized that she and Henry had both lied and that their marriage was going to be starting off with neither of them trusting the other.

That was sad although I think it's speculation that Katherine and Arthur ever truly consummated their marriage and I'm guessing the Juana/Henry supposed tryst is pure fiction. 

This might sound weird, but I appreciated the flashbacks of Margaret giving birth to Henry VII. It makes you realize that she was just a little girl, only 13 when she gave birth and 12 when she conceived! And they showed the tossing of Margaret in the bedding to get the baby to come out, which while there's no way to prove that was, indeed, Margaret's experience, it was a practice of the age. It was sweet to see her with the baby and you could understand why she fought so hard for him.

I'm hoping the final season shows more of Katherine and Henry's marriage and doesn't jump straight to Anne.

[vavera4ka]

I was surprised back in the episode when they chose Henry "to lay" with Joanna. I mean, I know I shouldn't be looking for logic in the show, or in history when it comes to despotic rulers finding excuses to do stuff... but the whole thing about

Spoiler

Henry moving on from Catherine to Ann Boleyn was because he was able to argue that SHE lied and through her lie their marriage was incestuous. Now he'll be pot calling kettle black. Though his relationship with Mary Boleyn never stopped him from marrying Anne, so I guess there's that.

I do wish to see the marriage next season, usually when we see a Henry VIII story it revolves around the Boleyn family, I'd like to see this marriage evolve and die in detail (ok... I just heard how it sounds lol)

I'd like to give props to costuming department. When Harry and Catherine were in the woods his clothes and his stance were so reminiscent of his famous portrait (younger and leaner version). It was a great device to show him this way especially since he JUST became the king.

Catherine's dress on the hoops really bothered me throughout the season though. Was that a Spanish fashion thing? It looked weird.

[Darlin]

The Oviedo scene of him getting hanged/lynched made me uncomfortable.  I watched the episode on Demand and was able to FF it.  Only then did I realize he was saved. Even when I went back and watched it again, I was still uneasy and it was a hard watch.  I've been tolerant of Lady the King's Mother all season long up until 2 episodes ago, but yesterday I was ready for her character to die (and I want to emphasize it's the character depiction of Margaret Beaufort that I detested, not the real woman, LOL).

Margaret Pole -- I still like her, but she acts put-upon at times and I find that an unlikeable trait.  Why on earth was she merciful to Margaret Beaufort??  Let her get her own cup of water!

Catherine and Harry/King Henry VIII.  I know most of their depiction in this series was fictitious, but their final scene got my interest in a way that none of their previous scenes together have.  Their marriage is starting on a foundation of lies and deceit.  I cannot wait for Spanish Princess 2: Diary of a Mad Marriage.

Spoiler

And to add, I do hope the next arc focuses less on Anne Boleyn and more on other aspects of their marriage-- Henry going to war/battle in another land while Catherine stays behind in England, guiding the country in victory in another war/battle; the pregnancies and miscarriages; the birth of Mary; Lizzy Blount and Henry Fitzroy.

[Darlin]

Spoiler details for Spanish Princess 2

Spoiler

Sounds like the next series will draw from Three Sisters, Three Queens.

https://ew.com/tv/2019/06/24/the-spanish-princess-creators-and-star-tease-whats-coming-season-2/?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly_ew&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_term=93BDF202-9688-11E9-A66D-B4CD4744363C&utm_content=link

Edited June 24, 2019 by Darlin
More details

[Bill1978]

Yay and let's hope Anne Boleyn is kept to a minimum. Mainly because I would love to be able to watch this series (including White Queen and White Princess here) and have it move straight into The Tudors series with minimal overlap of story. And also in my fantsy world someone decides to do a series covering Edward VI, Jane and Mary I so I have something to link The Tudors with the Cate Blanchett Elizabeth movies.

[tennisgurl]

The flashback to Margaret giving birth as a child was really good/sad, I think it puts a lot of her in context. She really was just a kid when she had her kid, she can see why he became her whole world and she faught so hard for him. Being a mother is basically all she has ever known.

Margaret Pole is the most long suffering person in all of England. 

I really hope that next season we can focus on the marriage between Katherine and Henry in the later years, instead of jumping right into Anne/divorce/church drama/dozens of wives. They apparently had some good times together, even getting off to this rocky start, and the later stuff is rather overplayed when it comes to Tudor family history. 

[Nessie]

5 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

Yay and let's hope Anne Boleyn is kept to a minimum. Mainly because I would love to be able to watch this series (including White Queen and White Princess here) and have it move straight into The Tudors series with minimal overlap of story. And also in my fantsy world someone decides to do a series covering Edward VI, Jane and Mary I so I have something to link The Tudors with the Cate Blanchett Elizabeth movies.

Let's hope so.  I mean, I know this show has played pretty fast and loose with the timeline, but Henry and Katherine were married for

Spoiler

17 years, I think,

before Henry even noticed Anne, more or less

Spoiler

not that he didn't have his other dalliances.

I loved how Margaret Beaufort so dramatically died on Katherine and Henry's wedding day (no doubt equally from a broken heart and to punish Henry).  That's not so far off, historically speaking.  She actually did die about two weeks later, the day after Henry's 18th birthday.

[MadameKillerB]

Hubby and I just started this last night so we're only 3 episodes in. We're big history buffs but don't really mind all the inaccuracies. Eh, it's television so we expect that.

Interesting that writers are choosing to portray Catherine as a scheming and not so modest woman. Makes for good TV but I find I don't really have any sympathy for her the way I do when I read about her historically.

[RedheadZombie]

Oh, I'm so tired of moaping Maggie.  Yes, the real life woman's life was horrendous.  But this Maggie chose to lie over saving her children from starvation.  She actually chose to farm her children out rather than keep them and tell the truth.  And now that she's really pissed - not at her uncle Richard for murdering her cousins and starting all of this nonsense, at the Tudors - she's the head schemer at over throwing the Tudors.  It's so silly.  Mousy Maggie planning the revolution.  And all in the name of her precious Teddy.  Guess what would have happened if your cousin became king, Maggie?  Arthur's siblings would have been dealt with just like Teddy.

Catherine believes she was born to marry Harry?  Well how convenient now that he's going to be the king.  She will stop at nothing to hunt him down and have this marriage.  She should have gone back to Spain and married an easier man - perhaps one who would actually let her keep her child.  Instead, she plays the perfect wedding planner, advising the staff and talking down a panicked bride, followed by stalking Henry to the ends of the earth.  She's so fanatical about landing Henry, I almost down mind what she gets with him.

[Bill1978]

On 6/26/2019 at 5:33 AM, RedheadZombie said:

And now that she's really pissed - not at her uncle Richard for murdering her cousins and starting all of this nonsense, at the Tudors - she's the head schemer at over throwing the Tudors.  It's so silly. 

According to the previous series that Spanish Princess is a continuation of -The White Queen- Beaufort is the one that made the call to kill the Princes, Richard was totally innocent. So it makes sense in this series universe for Maggie to be pissed at Beaufort. I have no idea historically if Maggie ever lied about Katherine's virginity or whether she hate Beaufort like the series portrays but what the 3 series has taught me is that everybody only has one focus that drives their plot. You are not allowed to deviate from it at all. So Maggie's plot is They killed my brother woe is me. I can only imagine if they ever got to the end of hr story

Spoiler

As they are hacking into her neck, she would be forsaking the Tudors for killing her beloved Teddy to her last breath and calling out to Teddy that she is coming as her head finally gets chopped off.

[RedheadZombie]

3 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

According to the previous series that Spanish Princess is a continuation of -The White Queen- Beaufort is the one that made the call to kill the Princes, Richard was totally innocent. So it makes sense in this series universe for Maggie to be pissed at Beaufort. I have no idea historically if Maggie ever lied about Katherine's virginity or whether she hate Beaufort like the series portrays but what the 3 series has taught me is that everybody only has one focus that drives their plot. You are not allowed to deviate from it at all. So Maggie's plot is They killed my brother woe is me. I can only imagine if they ever got to the end of hr story

  Hide contents

As they are hacking into her neck, she would be forsaking the Tudors for killing her beloved Teddy to her last breath and calling out to Teddy that she is coming as her head finally gets chopped off.

Wasn't her husband a Tudor cousin?  So as Maggie curses the Tudors, she curses her children.  The character is just so exhausting.

[Bill1978]

22 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Wasn't her husband a Tudor cousin?  So as Maggie curses the Tudors, she curses her children.

According to her Wiki page, her husband's mother was the half sister of Beaufort. Shared the same mother.

The whole curse thing in this series is ridiculous. According to Gregory the reason why Henry VIII struggled to produce an heir and why the Tudor line eventually ended is because Elizabeth of York and her mother Jaquetta placed a curse on the Tudor line because why not - nothing says progressive women like having scorned women doing witchcraft. So Elizabeth basically cursed her own daughter. So why not have Maggie curse her own family as well.

[RedheadZombie]

1 minute ago, Bill1978 said:

According to her Wiki page, her husband's mother was the half sister of Beaufort. Shared the same mother.

The whole curse thing in this series is ridiculous. According to Gregory the reason why Henry VIII struggled to produce an heir and why the Tudor line eventually ended is because Elizabeth of York and her mother Jaquetta placed a curse on the Tudor line because why not - nothing says progressive women like having scorned women doing witchcraft. So Elizabeth basically cursed her own daughter. So why not have Maggie curse her own family as well.

Gregory is ridiculous.  I actually read The White Princess, and seriously LOL'd when Elizabeth gave birth to Elizabeth (named after Elizabeth Woodville) and was convinced, absolutely convinced, that little Elizabeth would rule England one day and return the country to glory (meaning her children Arthur, Henry, and Margaret would have to die).  Of course little Elizabeth died, but we're supposed to believe that Elizabeth of York was prescient and foresaw Elizabeth I.  It was actually worse than the mini-series.

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Gregory is ridiculous.  I actually read The White Princess, and seriously LOL'd when Elizabeth gave birth to Elizabeth (named after Elizabeth Woodville) and was convinced, absolutely convinced, that little Elizabeth would rule England one day and return the country to glory (meaning her children Arthur, Henry, and Margaret would have to die).  Of course little Elizabeth died, but we're supposed to believe that Elizabeth of York was prescient and foresaw Elizabeth I.  It was actually worse than the mini-series.

That's crazy!

[andromeda331]

On 6/25/2019 at 1:33 PM, RedheadZombie said:

Oh, I'm so tired of moaping Maggie.  Yes, the real life woman's life was horrendous.  But this Maggie chose to lie over saving her children from starvation.  She actually chose to farm her children out rather than keep them and tell the truth.  And now that she's really pissed - not at her uncle Richard for murdering her cousins and starting all of this nonsense, at the Tudors - she's the head schemer at over throwing the Tudors.  It's so silly.  Mousy Maggie planning the revolution.  And all in the name of her precious Teddy.  Guess what would have happened if your cousin became king, Maggie?  Arthur's siblings would have been dealt with just like Teddy.

So am I. The Maggie Pole I feel sorry for, this Maggie its really hard too. She won't make up or say anything nice while Elizabeth is dying, she's shocked when she's banned from the court. Wow! Who knew that insulting the dying Queen could have a bad consequence. Everything is taken for taxes. Maggie decides to write the King for help, begging for help and totally thinks he's going to help. Why? What about anything that's happened plus the pissed off way he spoke you suggests he would help? She actually arrives at the palace completely convinced that Henry's the one who summoned her, but shocked that its his mother. Wow, yes shocking that the woman who runs the kingdom also reads her son's mail.  She chose not to tell Margaret the truth well then your kids are being split up. She did go to her cousin's to join them. She's shocked when troops show up and arrest them all? That she was arrest? Shocking Maggie, you were involved in a plot against the King. Its just really hard to feel sorry for her when she keeps making dumb decisions or says or does stuff that will only get her in trouble with the Tudors but is shocked when it actually does. I have a real hard time being sympathetic. 

Quote

Catherine believes she was born to marry Harry?  Well how convenient now that he's going to be the king.  She will stop at nothing to hunt him down and have this marriage.  She should have gone back to Spain and married an easier man - perhaps one who would actually let her keep her child.  Instead, she plays the perfect wedding planner, advising the staff and talking down a panicked bride, followed by stalking Henry to the ends of the earth.  She's so fanatical about landing Henry, I almost down mind what she gets with him.

Ha! I almost don't mind either. I really don't understand why she is so driven to marry him. He was the second son, but she knew all a long that he was going to be King. She loves him so much. That she'll refused being recalled, won't leave England, rejects all other marriage plans, and will stay even if he marries someone else. Why is she so determined? She doesn't even waste that much time asking about what happens to her after informing him his father is dead. Is all this suppose to show how devoted she is or that she's right? How perfect she is? Look at her calm little Mary down and tell her how great and romantic royal marriage because apparently she's the only one who doesn't know royals don't marry for love. She really does come off as fanatical and crazy. 

[outofbounds]

I've watched this show religiously because hello Ruairi O'Conner is hot hot hot as Harry.  But for the life of me I cannot figure out why they wasted so much time on Rosa and her dalliances. It didn't connect her to anything.  It didn't upset Catherine's storyline.  It got to show Catherine being a little nice every now and then but it really was such a throw away that I can't figure out why they wasted so much time with it.

I'm not just saying this because I loved Ruairi but they could have scrapped her entire storyline and advanced Catherine and Harry's storyline more.  While the end was poignant given they both know they're liars...I think it might have struck more of a cord had they ended it after the birth and subsequent death of their first son.  They weren't guaranteed a second season until the third episode wasn't it?  That meant the series was half over.  Was that always where they were going to end it?  I am of the mind of most of you that it would be nice to see them as a happily married couple because they were for a really long time.  She was pregnant constantly so clearly they were having sex on a regular basis.  Why not show Harry morphing into the Henry VIII we all know and love a little bit more.  It seems a better pay off might have been seeing Catherine find out she was definitely going to have a "be careful what you wish for" moment.  

Whatever I guess.  I'll watch season 2...obviously...I just wish they wouldn't focus on such ridiculous relationships that don't mean anything.

[watcher1006]

I was definitely disappointed at the end about how much the plots of the series in general and the finale in particular hung on the question of Catherine of Aragon's virginity. Not sure I care to tune in for Part 2.

The scene of Dudley's execution was grotesque but I imagine that historically headsmen were not always accurate and often enough had to take more than a single swing.

[Nessie]

On 6/25/2019 at 1:44 PM, Nessie said:

I loved how Margaret Beaufort so dramatically died on Katherine and Henry's wedding day (no doubt equally from a broken heart and to punish Henry).  That's not so far off, historically speaking.  She actually did die about two weeks later, the day after Henry's 18th birthday.

Sorry to quote myself, but just realized that yesterday was Henry VIII's 528th birthday, which means today is the 510th anniversary of Margaret Beaufort's death.  Rest in peace, Our Lady, the King's Mother Grandmother.  Phillipa Gregory has done you NO favors...

[poeticlicensed]

I just started this series so I am woefully behind, with only having watched the first two episodes. The actor that portrayed Arthur looked like a 14-15 year old kid, but in reality Henry was 10 when Catherine married Arthur! 10! Thact actor looked easily 20! And are we  to seriously believe that Henry  had the hots for her at 10?   I don't mind when authors take liberties with history, since we only have official records and written accounts to go on, but this strains the bounds of credulty.  

[theschnauzers]

1 hour ago, poeticlicensed said:

I just started this series so I am woefully behind, with only having watched the first two episodes. The actor that portrayed Arthur looked like a 14-15 year old kid, but in reality Henry was 10 when Catherine married Arthur! 10! Thact actor looked easily 20! And are we  to seriously believe that Henry  had the hots for her at 10?   I don't mind when authors take liberties with history, since we only have official records and written accounts to go on, but this strains the bounds of credulty.  

The three STARZ limited series based on Gregory’s series of novels all aged up some of the characters including Henry VIiI, because of the cultural  differences about the age of marriage between that time and modern day.

[Scarlett45]

On 7/1/2019 at 10:58 AM, theschnauzers said:

The three STARZ limited series based on Gregory’s series of novels all aged up some of the characters including Henry VIiI, because of the cultural  differences about the age of marriage between that time and modern day.

Yes, also in the case of this show, an aged up Harry gives us a character for Catherine to play off of. If the character of Harry was true to his historical age we would watch Catherine chat with a prepubescent child once or twice for most of the episodes not exactly great drama. Catherine and Harry were six years a part, not the 1-2yrs the show depicts. 

[Scarlett45]

I went to see Six the Musical last night, it was amazing. Needed some more Tudor fix after the show is over. 

[Tyro49]

When and where did we see the young Boleyn sisters in this series? I don't recall any mention of them.

[CountryGirl]

There was a blink and you missed it cameo with Anne in the season finale. I don't believe Mary was featured, but it's been several weeks and I could be mistaken.

[Scarlett45]

On 8/13/2019 at 4:15 PM, CountryGirl said:

There was a blink and you missed it cameo with Anne in the season finale. I don't believe Mary was featured, but it's been several weeks and I could be mistaken.

I didn’t notice this but I can rewatch thanks. 

[txvoodoo]

On 8/13/2019 at 4:15 PM, CountryGirl said:

There was a blink and you missed it cameo with Anne in the season finale. I don't believe Mary was featured, but it's been several weeks and I could be mistaken.

Was she a very small child? 

[CountryGirl]

14 hours ago, txvoodoo said:

Was she a very small child? 

She looked about six years old and there was a blond girl, presumably Mary as she's believed to be the elder of the two, next to her.

And my mistake, this scene occurred in Episode 7, not the season finale (Episode 8). About 20 minutes in. Katherine is trying to discern Harry's whereabouts and Anne tells her he's gone. She asks where but before she can learn more (possibly), their father, Thomas, walks up and urges her to return home.

ETA: Here are a few screencaps of the two girls:

And a close-up of Anne:

And here's Thomas to shoo them away:

Edited August 19, 2019 by CountryGirl

[Bill1978]

Normally I am really good at picking up little cameos in productions like this but I was totally clueless. I'm gonna blame in on the fact that I honestly struggle to tell who is who in this series when it comes to the supporting cast, so I had no idea Thomas Boleyn was even in the series.

Thank you for sharing the screencaps, I recall the scene for sure just not the significance

[Scarlett45]

On 8/19/2019 at 4:39 PM, CountryGirl said:

She looked about six years old and there was a blond girl, presumably Mary as she's believed to be the elder of the two, next to her.

And my mistake, this scene occurred in Episode 7, not the season finale (Episode 8). About 20 minutes in. Katherine is trying to discern Harry's whereabouts and Anne tells her he's gone. She asks where but before she can learn more (possibly), their father, Thomas, walks up and urges her to return home.

ETA: Here are a few screencaps of the two girls:

And a close-up of Anne:

And here's Thomas to shoo them away:

Yup I remember this thank you. 

[Scarlett45]

If I recall from Charlotte Hope's instagram this wrapped filming before COVID19 shut downs- so we should be getting an airdate this summer. (Editing and sound mixing can all be done remotely). I will need it, Power Book II is delayed because production had to shut down, what am I doing to watch on Starz when Outlander is over??

[Haleth]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

what am I doing to watch on Starz when Outlander is over??

Have you watched Black Sails?

[Scarlett45]

39 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Have you watched Black Sails?

No! I’ve heard about it though. I may check it out.