S01.E08: Milk

[Xantar]

7 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

I'll just quickly interject that my mother and I loved Gone Girl (the movie); however, our only critique was the ending. Once I read the novel Gone Girl, it explained why Nick and Amy stayed together so much better. This is now the second time -- with the Sharp Objects finale -- where I feel as though what's on screen isn't satisfying enough, and the book does the ending justice. My question is, why do people who adapt Gillian's novels do this?? It's frustrating. They need to leave time for the end.

Gillian herself is the one who adapted both Gone Girl and Sharp Objects for the screen, so she only has herself to blame. I have to say based on what I’ve seen that I’m not inclined to go read the books. She’s coming across as a hack.

[Schmolioot]

I’m sorry, that ending about ruined the series for me.

Just horrible. Beyond the fact that Amma being the killer was ridiculous IMO and not nearly foreshadowed well enough, I literally laughed when Amma said “don’t tell mama”

I presume laughter was not what they were going for.

The twist was not only unearned (despite what Vallée and Gillian Flynn said in the equally laughable explainer after the show) but completely unnecessary! I actually thought it was ending beautifully with Camille and Amma helping each other, starting a life etc. It really was beautifully shot and acted and Amy Adams got flash her megawatt smile a few times.

And ruined for what? A jump scare and classic rock? Horrible.

Particularly without a season 2 to flesh this out or take the story in another direction (like I’m not so certain that Camille would turn her in, I’d sign up for 8 episodes of Amma and Camille on the run) it was hugely disappointing 

1 minute ago, Xantar said:

Gillian herself is the one who adapted both Gone Girl and Sharp Objects for the screen, so she only has herself to blame. I have to say based on what I’ve seen that I’m not inclined to go read the books. She’s coming across as a hack.

Flynn is 100% a hack mystery writer.

Great writer of character and mood but a hack at actually writing a mystery 

[tomsmom]

Ok upon further watching I’m thinking maaaybe what I thought were Drs in white coats might be her accomplices wearing suits from the pig slaughtering plant.

What really pisses me off though is that they had plenty of time to explain all of this, just cut out four or five scenes of her driving around listening to Led Zeppelin !!

[TattleTeeny]

I think at first it's like outdoor fence and then in the image above it's indoor/institutional..

[ferjy]

8 minutes ago, tomsmom said:

Yes.

Thanks. I'm not watching on iPad or iPhone, and my TV doesn't pause well. You shouldn't have to rely on pausing anyway. This show had too much of that.

3 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

I watched the scene again and freeze-framed, and I think you're right now.  The focus blurs the fencing so it just looks like grating (at least to me), but when it's in focus, it's a fence.  I think you're right. :)

Thanks. I should clarify that my TV has clear pauses, it's just hard to pause it at the part you'd like. But as I said, we shouldn't have to pause, it should be clear while watching. I don't like those gimmicks.

[DangerousMinds]

38 minutes ago, ferjy said:

I disagree. Adora, Ashley and Alan were as likely a suspect as Amma was.

If you read back through the comments here, many agreed with you. People were still guessing right up until this last episode.

Edited August 27, 2018 by DangerousMinds

[Penman61]

5 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Not to mention when you think about the ages the girls were killed, they would still have some baby teeth, and I remember the coroner mentioning something about it being easier to pull those kinds of teeth!

Right now I'm mad at the show, but don't 14-year-olds have all adult teeth?

[DangerousMinds]

41 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

She admitted as such in one of the one minutes specials about the adaptation. The book does explain things. Get it from the library and read the epilogue. It will explain the murders. But please get it from a library or a friend. Don't buy it. Flynn doesn't deserve your money.

I enjoyed the book. It may not be award winning literature, but that's ok with me.

[PepSinger]

3 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Right now I'm mad at the show, but don't 14-year-olds have all adult teeth?

I definitely remember still losing baby teeth in high school. I want to say at least through 10th grade. I can't speak for everyone, though.

Also, to be fair, the majority of most people's teeth by that point would be adult teeth and not baby teeth. My aunt is a dentist, so maybe I should just ask her? :D 

Edited August 27, 2018 by PepSinger

[ferjy]

4 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

I think at first it's like outdoor fence and then in the image above it's indoor/institutional..

Yes, there are two fences, but another reason I didn't think the second one is institutional is because it's the very same fence her new friend is behind as she's falling. Why would she be in the institution?

[aemom]

1 minute ago, Penman61 said:

Right now I'm mad at the show, but don't 14-year-olds have all adult teeth?

It depends. My sons got their teeth late and as a result, lost them late. I'm pretty sure they lost their last ones at 14.

But you're correct that most teeth in their mouth would be adult teeth at this age.

[DangerousMinds]

36 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

I am impressed you all aren't furious. I did read the book and this ending was wretched. It was a horror movie ending and not a character study ending or a mystery ending. And I think the writer and producers should be punished and not get any awards.  And I kind of hope Amy Adams doesn't now either. I find this sort of ending completely insulting. I don't need to be spoon fed all the details, but showing the last three murders in the end credits was lazy. I get that the writer and director are too arty to have a straight ending, but this ...oh boy. My hope is other film-makers avoid this sort of ending. Just the worst. I cannot wait to badmouth this entire series. I am feeling that spiteful.

They should be PUNISHED? Ouch.

[Beezella]

I'm liking this way more than most of you. I was so relieved when the police lights became apparent to Camille as she lay on the floor, and the rescue came. It seemed to be moving toward  a happy ending, but I did think, Amma isn't going to get over the horror so quickly. The turn at the end surprised me, but seemed more fitting to the tone of the whole series.

[ferjy]

10 minutes ago, tomsmom said:

Ok upon further watching I’m thinking maaaybe what I thought were Drs in white coats might be her accomplices wearing suits from the pig slaughtering plant.

What really pisses me off though is that they had plenty of time to explain all of this, just cut out four or five scenes of her driving around listening to Led Zeppelin !!

Ha ha, that goshdern driving! I completely agree. Time could have been better spent.

Ah, that could be it. My eyes are aching from trying to find the white suits. lol A few seconds more of peering at my screen amongst the pausing and the white suits may have to take me away!

[Penman61]

3 minutes ago, ferjy said:

Ha ha, that goshdern driving! I completely agree. Time could have been better spent.

Ah, that could be it. My eyes are aching from trying to find the white suits. lol A few seconds more of peering at my screen amongst the pausing and the white suits may have to take me away!

By tomorrow the Internet will have Zaprudered this sequence, but until then, I gotcha, fam:

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Penman61

[jeansheridan]

3 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

They should be PUNISHED? Ouch.

Would "not rewarded" sound better? :^). But you know what, yeah, I take television seriously. I gave them 8 hours of my life. I read her book. I was willing to go along for the ride. I accepted the micro-second flashbacks. So I don't think it is too much to ask for a reasonably filmed ending. I think they made a massive artistic error. Endings matter.

[ferjy]

9 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

They should be PUNISHED? Ouch.

Fifty lashes! :-D  Though I think the OP meant by not getting any awards.

[Schmolioot]

1 minute ago, Penman61 said:

By tomorrow the Internet will have Zaprudered this sequence, but until then, I gotcha, fam:

 

Isn’t that Kelsey and Jodes?

And speaking of them, what is their motive? Amma is manipulative but was she really able to manipulate two otherwise seemingly not al girls into killers?

 I mean, I really can’t get over how silly this is

[zoltana]

42 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

At first I thought it was the entryway to the apartments where they’d been roller skating but that’d be too highly trafficked probably. I’m betting the chain link fencing was at this closed pool in the park they kept referring to, Amma took advantage of it being closed. (I also think it was to show the viewer it was an urban setting, to differentiate it from the other two murders.)

Did anyone else see a doll propped in the window of the room where Camille found the teeth? The same way Natalie had been propped in that window in the alley?

Good catch.  I saw the doll, but didn't put the two together.  

 

I would really have loved to see them spend more time on the ending and give us some behind the scenes analysis.

[PepSinger]

Another question is why was Ann Nash left in the water while Natalie Keene was brought into town and posed like a doll?

[Schmolioot]

Also there’s this:

Adora is one of the most selfish, monstrous people ever put on film? Is she seriously just going to take this? What is she actually in prison for? Marian? Just Amma and Camille? 

What actual evidence is there against her for Ann and Natalie?

[ferjy]

8 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

By tomorrow the Internet will have Zaprudered this sequence, but until then, I gotcha, fam:

 

 

Ok, so definitely the pig slaughtering coats. Unless it's some newfangled form of strangulation therapy. :-p

Edited August 27, 2018 by ferjy

[Penman61]

2 minutes ago, ferjy said:

Ok, so definitely the pig slaughtering coats. Unless it's some newfangled form of strangulation therapy.

And the murderettes donning white pig-slaughtering coats would explain why the little kid (with the meth/cancer mom) said he saw Woman in White take Natalie into the woods.  

Edited August 27, 2018 by Penman61

[Schmolioot]

2 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Another question is why was Ann Nash left in the water while Natalie Keene was brought into town and posed like a doll?

Good question 

And how exactly did Amma & Friends place Natalie there without anyone noticing? And then they just skated there with the victims BROTHER for god knows how long? The body wasn’t really hidden. How did no one notice?

[Penman61]

Also:  Who is Camille's father?

[ferjy]

10 minutes ago, Schmolioot said:

So much unexplained and really unexplainable because it’s stupid.

But as a start, how exactly is Amma triggered? Is showing off once at dinner enough? Was she hit by gamma radiation that brings out the Hulk, which is what she looked like during those end credit scenes?

Camille seemed to be doing a pretty good job of taking care of her and seemed to really love her but wasn’t a therapist part of this healing process? She just let Amma sleep in bed with her every night and didn’t think perhaps professional help was needed?

Preposterous

:-D That's just it. We never saw that aggressive look she has on her face with the gritting teeth in the credits bits before. She was a normal moody rebel like most teens are.

[PepSinger]

4 minutes ago, Schmolioot said:

Also there’s this:

Adora is one of the most selfish, monstrous people ever put on film? Is she seriously just going to take this? What is she actually in prison for? Marian? Just Amma and Camille? 

What actual evidence is there against her for Ann and Natalie?

She's definitely in there for Amma and Camille. Marian, I don't know. They can't test ashes, so I'm doubtful as to what they could convict her on right now.

As for Ann and Natalie, maybe they just offered her a plea deal, and she took it even though she knew she didn't do it because she'd get out sooner. I can see them offering that since they had no direct evidence.

[ferjy]

9 minutes ago, Schmolioot said:

Also there’s this:

Adora is one of the most selfish, monstrous people ever put on film? Is she seriously just going to take this? What is she actually in prison for? Marian? Just Amma and Camille? 

What actual evidence is there against her for Ann and Natalie?

The pliers. It will have the girl's DNA on it. And her fingerprints, no doubt. They were looking at Alan too for the pliers. No one thought to consider Amma (because it's a ridiculous plot point).

[vibeology]

8 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

And the murderettes donning white pig-slaughtering coats would explain why the little kid (with the meth/cancer mom) said he saw Woman in White take Natalie into the woods.  

The very very last shot after all of great credits showed Amma dressed up in her Persephone dress without the flower crown so that's clearly what the kid saw.

[PepSinger]

Just caught Curry reading Camille's piece, which of course, is another clue. Adora doesn't explain the teeth -- because she can't -- or the naked rage it would take someone to do that.

Edited August 27, 2018 by PepSinger

[thesupremediva1]

One more thing: Alan is the shittiest human being. He's not worthy of being called a man. He knew those two girls were about to die. He knew enough. He chose to do nothing. He deserves some kind of accessory charge. He takes "willfully ignorant" to a new level.

[Butless]

I want to congratulate the makers of this show!!! For making the first-ever, all woman circle-jerk in an echo chamber.

Booo.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Buttless
gillian flynn, marti noxon & her sister & amy adams.

[peach]

I thought the first half was legitimately terrifying, the scene at the dinner table with Camille staring down Adora was epic.  Then I thought she might really die.  I assumed she was sacrificing herself to prove Adora was poisoning them, but she has a bit of a death wish, and since I haven't read the book, I didn't know if she was going to survive.  That was nightmare territory, hearing someone at the door and not being able to scream for help.  And Amma just withdrawing into lala land and not helping her.  I felt so much relief when Richard and her boss saved her.  I'm not crazy about the abrupt ending but I thought the "don't tell mama" part was great, lol.  So psycho!  That actress makes my skin crawl. 

But, yes, questions abound.  Especially as to why Natalie got killed in Ashley's house.   Ashley didn't seem to be an accomplice, like the roller girls.  I guess when she found blood, she thought John really did it?  But wtf were they doing in Ashley's bedroom then?

I thought the biggest clues as to Amma and roller girls doing it was they were never afraid to skate all over the place when there was a serial killer on the loose, and the sly little comment they made about it, when they said "cool kids like us" didn't need to be afraid.  Because they did it.

5 minutes ago, PepSinger said:

Just caught Curry reading Camille's piece, which of course, is another clue. Adora doesn't explain the teeth -- because she can't -- or the naked rage it would take someone to do that.

Unfortunately, they didn't explain why Amma had naked rage either. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by peach

[snarts]

The sound in the scenes during the credits made me think the new friend was electrocuted. 

I too would've liked to see what happened after Camille found out Amma was a murderer.

[formerlyfreedom]

Please continue to spoiler tag book references; this is a very similar story, but there have been subtle changes, so let's keep the topic free of book spoilers. Discussion, discourse, and/or arguments (civil of course!) may continue over in the Book topic. Thank you!

[LilaFowler]

Disappointing, to say the least. I had read the book ages ago so the series still feel generally new even though I knew whodunit. I realized a couple of episodes back that they were running out of real estate, so to speak, and that so much was going to be crammed into the finale and it wouldn't be satisfying. I am almost disgusted that Amma and her friends being revealed as the killers was left to end credits flashbacks. What shitty writing this was from the beginning of the series right up to the end. The pacing was way off, so much time was wasted on watching Amy Adams drive around, drink and stare forlornly into space. Ugh.

[Penman61]

You guys AMMA is an anagram for MAMA.

And CAMILLE is an anagram for CALM ISLE.

And ADORA is an anagram for REDECORATE.

YOU GUYS...

Edited August 27, 2018 by Penman61
I may or may not know how to anagram but I care more about narrative structure than TPTB. Also, letters are pretty.

[Beezella]

2 minutes ago, peach said:

I thought the biggest clues as to Amma and roller girls doing it was they were never afraid to skate all over the place when there was a serial killer on the loose, and the sly little comment they made about it, when they said "cool kids like us" didn't need to be afraid.  Because they did it.

When they were skating around, Vickery warned them that even though the killer had been caught,  a drunk driver might not see them, and maybe he would run them over. One of them (I can't tell them apart) said in response "Or she. Don't be sexist."

[Butless]

Did they sit together and say, 'We dont want to exploit the deaths of these young girl victims, so lets stuff it all in a quick-edit cameo in the end credits'? Where viewers would have to pause over and over on it, replaying it over and over, so see what actually happened?  Because , Well done, you assholes.

[ferjy]

12 minutes ago, peach said:

I thought the first half was legitimately terrifying, the scene at the dinner table with Camille staring down Adora was epic.  Then I thought she might really die.  I assumed she was sacrificing herself to prove Adora was poisoning them, but she has a bit of a death wish, and since I haven't read the book, I didn't know if she was going to survive.  That was nightmare territory, hearing someone at the door and not being able to scream for help.  And Amma just withdrawing into lala land and not helping her.  I felt so much relief when Richard and her boss saved her.  I'm not crazy about the abrupt ending but I thought the "don't tell mama" part was great, lol.  So psycho!  That actress makes my skin crawl. 

But, yes, questions abound.  Especially as to why Natalie got killed in Ashley's house.   Ashley didn't seem to be an accomplice, like the roller girls.  I guess when she found blood, she thought John really did it?  But wtf were they doing in Ashley's bedroom then?

I thought the biggest clues as to Amma and roller girls doing it was they were never afraid to skate all over the place when there was a serial killer on the loose, and the sly little comment they made about it, when they said "cool kids like us" didn't need to be afraid.  Because they did it.

Unfortunately, they didn't explain why Amma had naked rage either. 

BIB 1 - But teenagers are like that. They have no sense of their own mortality.

BIB 2 - Agree completely. We never saw that.

[DangerousMinds]

11 minutes ago, peach said:

I thought the first half was legitimately terrifying, the scene at the dinner table with Camille staring down Adora was epic.  Then I thought she might really die.  I assumed she was sacrificing herself to prove Adora was poisoning them, but she has a bit of a death wish, and since I haven't read the book, I didn't know if she was going to survive.  That was nightmare territory, hearing someone at the door and not being able to scream for help.  And Amma just withdrawing into lala land and not helping her.  I felt so much relief when Richard and her boss saved her.  I'm not crazy about the abrupt ending but I thought the "don't tell mama" part was great, lol.  So psycho!  That actress makes my skin crawl. 

But, yes, questions abound.  Especially as to why Natalie got killed in Ashley's house.   Ashley didn't seem to be an accomplice, like the roller girls.  I guess when she found blood, she thought John really did it?  But wtf were they doing in Ashley's bedroom then?

I thought the biggest clues as to Amma and roller girls doing it was they were never afraid to skate all over the place when there was a serial killer on the loose, and the sly little comment they made about it, when they said "cool kids like us" didn't need to be afraid.  Because they did it.

Unfortunately, they didn't explain why Amma had naked rage either. 

Rage because she had a mother who was supposed to be loving her and keeping her safe, but instead continually putting her in danger. And being utterly dependent on that person. Just like the rage Adora had for her own mother who did the same thing.

[LilaFowler]

2 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Rage because she had a mother who was supposed to be loving her and keeping her safe, but instead continually putting her in danger. And being utterly dependent on that person. Just like the rage Adora had for her own mother who did the same thing.

IMO, Amma's rage had more to do with the attention that Adora paid the "lost girls," Natalie and Ann. All of the women in that family craved attention and acted out when they didn't get it. Amma saw the girls as competition, so she killed them. Same goes for Mae at the end of the series. She wanted to be a writer like Camille, Amma got territorial and then the girl goes missing.

[SHD]

I had to freeze and advance frame by frame to see what was happening in the credits bit. Kind of ridiculous, unless everyone else can just comprehend things faster than I can.

When Alan made that comment to the chief about hoping he doesn't catch the family virus since he sees Adora more than he does, I was all "Oh, SNAP! You go, Alan!"

[KillBill]

Hmm... little girls killing other little girls just for the fun of it, and getting away with it.

 I needed more... the story seems unfinished...so many unanswered questions. When Amma realizes Camille has figured it out, does she just allow her to call the police? And Amma loved Adora so much that she let her poison her but allowed her to take the downfall for her murders? I don't believe Alan was innocent and he's technically an accomplice to 
Marian's murder and the poisoning of Amma and Camille, so why is he not in jail?

Although I wish we had more episodes, I can appreciate the finale because it leaves Amma's motive open to interpretation and creates a since of intrigue around all the characters and their actions.

[ferjy]

8 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Rage because she had a mother who was supposed to be loving her and keeping her safe, but instead continually putting her in danger. And being utterly dependent on that person. Just like the rage Adora had for her own mother who did the same thing.

Possibly. Although it still would have manifested itself in her day to day life. If she was a child who constantly had temper tantrums or was a bully, something along those lines but we never saw anything to that effect.

Edited August 27, 2018 by ferjy

[Penman61]

Wasn't Natalie missing for days/weeks?  Where did the Amma & The Murderettes keep her body all that time, before they displayed her in the alley window?

[DangerousMinds]

Just now, ferjy said:

True. Although it still would have manifested itself in her day to day life. If she was a child who constantly had temper tantrums or was a bully, something along those lines but we never saw anything to that effect.

She was manipulative and histrionic.

[peach]

2 minutes ago, ferjy said:

BIB 1 - But teenagers are like that. They have no sense of their own mortality.

BIB 2 - Agree completely. We never saw that.

Well, yes, that's what made it ambiguous, but it was still a clue. 
 

2 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Rage because she had a mother who was supposed to be loving her and keeping her safe, but instead continually putting her in danger. And being utterly dependent on that person. Just like the rage Adora had for her own mother who did the same thing.

Well, sure, I understand why Amma would have these feelings, but she's also just a bad seed, imo.  They certainly make the case for a long line of psychopaths in the family.  Marian and Camille didn't become killers.  They telegraphed Amma's sociopathy, but not actual violence or rage.   Like Natalie biting people and stabbing them in the eyes.

[Butless]

1 hour ago, Schmolioot said:

I’m sorry, that ending about ruined the series for me.

Just horrible. Beyond the fact that Amma being the killer was ridiculous IMO and not nearly foreshadowed well enough, I literally laughed when Amma said “don’t tell mama”

I presume laughter was not what they were going for.

The twist was not only unearned (despite what Vallée and Gillian Flynn said in the equally laughable explainer after the show) but completely unnecessary! I actually thought it was ending beautifully with Camille and Amma helping each other, starting a life etc. It really was beautifully shot and acted and Amy Adams got flash her megawatt smile a few times.

And ruined for what? A jump scare and classic rock? Horrible.

Particularly without a season 2 to flesh this out or take the story in another direction (like I’m not so certain that Camille would turn her in, I’d sign up for 8 episodes of Amma and Camille on the run) it was hugely disappointing 

Flynn is 100% a hack mystery writer.

Great writer of character and mood but a hack at actually writing a mystery 

That has got to be what they were going for. It ended like an 80s comedic horror flick, like Werewolves in London or something.  Yeah, the laugh is on us. We thought we were watching another show, altogether.

I watched a panel with Flynn, Noxon & Adams, and they came off as pretty smug. Especially the first two. Noxon even said at one point that she thinks of the 3 as cheerleaders. Middleaged Noxon. She's an idiot, who's barely reigned in.  You could tell that she'd said that before, and that Flynn didnt want to portray that in public, but Ill be damned if it doesnt sound like the truth.

They were so high on their own cleverness, they royally fucked themselves in the end with their hubris and contempt for the audience. This show should serve as a warning to people who get together to flatter each other to death in an echo chamber.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Buttless

[ferjy]

4 minutes ago, LilaFowler said:

IMO, Amma's rage had more to do with the attention that Adora paid the "lost girls," Natalie and Ann. All of the women in that family craved attention and acted out when they didn't get it. Amma saw the girls as competition, so she killed them. Same goes for Mae at the end of the series. She wanted to be a writer like Camille, Amma got territorial and then the girl goes missing.

Yep, I think that's the more likely scenario.