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Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel


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17 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

Are we getting shower sex?! After all these years? *weeps with joy*

He's trying to backpedal, which means I def think he knows he spoiled shower sex:

Remember when SA said that the first time we see Oliver in 708, we see how traumatized prison left him? I'd love if the scene was him in the shower and he gets jumpy/spooked when Felicity joins him, and then they try to make good shower memories to erase what happened to him in 701.

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"And, um - part of the fun of this year is, I've pitched a bunch of stuff and I think - not the opening scene of Episode 8, but the first time that you see Oliver, we came up with a really interesting way, I think, of showing what prison life did to him without really bashing people over the head with it."

Bless SA for always trying to spoil us in ways we only understand later. (This is the "Felicity's scar" comment all over again.)

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2 minutes ago, Trisha said:

He's trying to backpedal, which means I def think he knows he spoiled shower sex:

Remember when SA said that the first time we see Oliver in 708, we see how traumatized prison left him? I'd love if the scene was him in the shower and he gets jumpy/spooked when Felicity joins him, and then they try to make good shower memories to erase what happened to him in 701.

Be still my aching ❤️

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3 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Remember when SA said that the first time we see Oliver in 708, we see how traumatized prison left him? I'd love if the scene was him in the shower and he gets jumpy/spooked when Felicity joins him, and then they try to make good shower memories to erase what happened to him in 701.

I was typing while you were posting, @Trisha, but ITA with you. If Oliver attempts to use a loofah as a weapon before he realizes it's his naked wife in the show with him, I will LMAO.

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25 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Why would they save it? Finding out that the new Green Arrow is Oliver's sister that he didn't know about is a great cliffhanger. The title being "Unmasked" indicates that we might get to see her face, and since the next episode (apart from the crossover) was originally titled "My Name Is Emiko Queen," it would make sense if they gave some clue to her identity in this episode. 

Well, happy birthday to you!!!!

True, it's totally possible I just figured they'd actually reveal Emiko Queen in 710 based on the original title.

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That's funny, but it continues the problem I have with this friendship/redemption. Lampshading the reasons why it's preposterous for Felicity and Laurel to be "friends" isn't the same as writing a plausible basis for Felicity to forget all of Siren's evil deeds and want to be friends with her. A mistrustful temporary alliance like TA often had with Malcolm Merlyn made all the sense in the world. A friendship doesn't, because they haven't addressed any of the time Sirens tried to kill Felicity and her loved ones. I just wish the writers were putting more care into this relationship so it didn't make Felicity seem like she has amnesia. 

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2 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

That's funny, but it continues the problem I have with this friendship/redemption. Lampshading the reasons why it's preposterous for Felicity and Laurel to be "friends" isn't the same as writing a plausible basis for Felicity to forget all of Siren's evil deeds and want to be friends with her. A mistrustful temporary alliance like TA often had with Malcolm Merlyn made all the sense in the world. A friendship doesn't, because they haven't addressed any of the time Sirens tried to kill Felicity and her loved ones. I just wish the writers were putting more care into this relationship so it didn't make Felicity seem like she has amnesia. 

Ok my headcanon for this (cuz I must have crazy head canon to watch this show) is that BS did what Felicity asked her to do in a time where no one bothered to help her or listen to her. BS is evil and tried to kill her but she did exactly what Felicity asked of her so in Felicity's state of mind, she probably feels awkward casting this woman aside. BS isn't trying to kill Felicity or her friends anymore (that we know of). BS probably won't kill other people either if Felicity asks her not to so in this instance I can just let this slide as I do with so many things on this show.

They need to put KC on this show so I must make it work in my head, especially if she's tethered to Felicity and I'm sure the bastards know this! 

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5 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

That's funny, but it continues the problem I have with this friendship/redemption. Lampshading the reasons why it's preposterous for Felicity and Laurel to be "friends" isn't the same as writing a plausible basis for Felicity to forget all of Siren's evil deeds and want to be friends with her. A mistrustful temporary alliance like TA often had with Malcolm Merlyn made all the sense in the world. A friendship doesn't, because they haven't addressed any of the time Sirens tried to kill Felicity and her loved ones. I just wish the writers were putting more care into this relationship so it didn't make Felicity seem like she has amnesia. 

Yep. I also worry that they're going to completely ignore the fact that Felicity had no one wanting to help her. For example, I can see them acting like Felicity working with Laurel was so bad while ignoring the fact that Dinah seems to care more about Laurel's well-being and "redemption" to the point that she's following her and giving her pep talks than Felicity (who she told to just go back to witness protection).

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If past Olicity love scenes are any indication Shower sex is gonna be HAWT. Maybe they show this cause by the end of the episode Maya is revealed to be their daughter and it will lead to Speculation that the Shower sex lead to her Conception? @Mellowyellow I expect your Squeeing if we get Maya as The Olicitot In this episode lol

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1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Ok my headcanon for this (cuz I must have crazy head canon to watch this show) is that BS did what Felicity asked her to do in a time where no one bothered to help her or listen to her. BS is evil and tried to kill her but she did exactly what Felicity asked of her so in Felicity's state of mind, she probably feels awkward casting this woman aside. BS isn't trying to kill Felicity or her friends anymore (that we know of). BS probably won't kill other people either if Felicity asks her not to so in this instance I can just let this slide as I do with so many things on this show.

I can buy Felicity being grateful to Laurel and wanting to give her a chance to prove that she can be a better person. I have no problem with that. But everyone keeps throwing around the word "friends," and that's what bugs. Then again, they toss around the word "friends" with respect to Curtis, Dinah, and Rene too, and we all know that's a lie. I guess I just need to accept that this show has no concept of true friendship like it used to in the early seasons. Now, "friend" just means "person we have to keep on the show for contractual reasons."

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3 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

I can buy Felicity being grateful to Laurel and wanting to give her a chance to prove that she can be a better person. I have no problem with that. But everyone keeps throwing around the word "friends," and that's what bugs.

This. Plus, why would William ever want to be anywhere near the vicinity of the woman who helped get his mother killed? If I knew my parents (or step-mom which I don't have) was in any kind of long-term "friendship" or whatever with someone who got my mother murdered, I would not be okay with that. Wait - did I just figure out why William seems so blase' in the future about not seeing his parents? It's all BS' fault. (And Felicity, and the Show's for not shutting this down.)

Edited by calliope1975
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On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 10:08 AM, apinknightmare said:

Maybe the rough environment she’s referring to is the garbage can that is Star City. 

KM's interview in the spoiler thread makes it sounds like this is the case. 

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2 hours ago, Chaser said:

KM's interview in the spoiler thread makes it sounds like this is the case. 

I definitely think she's talking about Star City, but this is the second time she's talked about growing up/being raised in a "very harsh" world, which makes it seem like the city goes to hell pretty quickly, not that it's a recent development in the FFs. And that bums me out.

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Idk, I still see it as William is living his 10-13 years (and likely beyond) in a harsh world and with Olicity presumably continuing to be vigilantes would probably continue with their kid, just like a regular year on the show. And then it continues until some time after the whatever years ago William decided to leave Star City and plan on never coming back. I don't think this Star City 2040 is a super recent development like a month or two ago, but not super close to the s7 timeline, somewhere on between, like within the some years William left Star City, which is still super unclear. 

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I just realized that Beth co-wrote Underneath and Oscar co-write The Fallen and now they are combining forces for Unmasked. I have expectations for that shower scene. Do not fail me. I did my time.

Edited by Chaser
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4 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

This. Plus, why would William ever want to be anywhere near the vicinity of the woman who helped get his mother killed? If I knew my parents (or step-mom which I don't have) was in any kind of long-term "friendship" or whatever with someone who got my mother murdered, I would not be okay with that. Wait - did I just figure out why William seems so blase' in the future about not seeing his parents? It's all BS' fault. (And Felicity, and the Show's for not shutting this down.)

There is some deniability since BS specifically was sent to get Quentin and Thea so William might not have ever seen her so unless it comes up, he might live in ignorance.  Not really much better but there's that.  

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1 hour ago, way2interested said:

I don't think this Star City 2040 is a super recent development like a month or two ago, but not super close to the s7 timeline, somewhere on between, like within the some years William left Star City, which is still super unclear. 

I wonder if they want to make sure that the future goes to hell far enough down the line that they can technically end the present-day storyline in the series finale (whenever that is) with at least a semi-happy ending. 

27 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

There is some deniability since BS specifically was sent to get Quentin and Thea so William might not have ever seen her so unless it comes up, he might live in ignorance.  Not really much better but there's that.  

Yep. Especially if they decide to make Laurel and Dinah BFFs at any point and then introduce Laurel as one of Dinah's partners in the future in the vigilante resistance. (I honestly wouldn't be surprised if this happens if there are any plans to have Laurel in the FFs.) Because right now, Dinah in the FFs = good, what she says = fact. 

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14 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I wonder if they want to make sure that the future goes to hell far enough down the line that they can technically end the present-day storyline in the series finale (whenever that is) with at least a semi-happy ending. 

Yeah, that's exactly what I think they're doing.

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1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

There is some deniability since BS specifically was sent to get Quentin and Thea so William might not have ever seen her so unless it comes up, he might live in ignorance.  Not really much better but there's that.  

For me it's less about what William knows and more about what Oliver and Felicity know. Oliver told Talia that he holds her responsible for working with the man who caused Samantha's death. Why should he feel differently about Siren?

Even if Oliver and Felicity can rationalize all of Siren's killing, I'm not sure how they can square her role in Samantha's death. I don't want to believe they'd be nonchalant about something that affected their son's life so much, so I hope the writers address it, even if they resolve it simply by having Siren apologize and move on. 

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12 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

For me it's less about what William knows and more about what Oliver and Felicity know. Oliver told Talia that he holds her responsible for working with the man who caused Samantha's death. Why should he feel differently about Siren?

Even if Oliver and Felicity can rationalize all of Siren's killing, I'm not sure how they can square her role in Samantha's death. I don't want to believe they'd be nonchalant about something that affected their son's life so much, so I hope the writers address it, even if they resolve it simply by having Siren apologize and move on. 

Talia is kind of a good example.  He can hold Talia responsible for working with the man who caused Samantha's death but by the end of his romp with her in prison, I'd say he was back to being friendly with Talia. Same for her holding him responsible for killing her father (even though he was trying to kill him)  I think he'd hold Talia to a higher standard than BS since Talia had been an ally in the past so her betrayal was worse.  Talia is essentially unchanged from the person she was or her beliefs and I don't expect Oliver and her to be at cross purposes because of their past anymore.  Heck, Oliver even apologized to her for killing her father.  

So if Oliver and the team ever all buy into BS having transformed herself into a new good person, then yeah, oops she was part of trying to kill us all and William's mom did die, but hey, that's not who she is anymore.  They could even go with the argument that she only was in on the kidnapping and that she too was duped by Chase, never knowing his plan was to blow up the whole island with everyone on it, including all his helpers.  They could argue the only one she was expecting to suffer death was Oliver (when ironically Chase's plan was for him and probably William to be the only ones alive)

I'm not really advocating for the team to accept BS and just forget the past but I can see how they could reason her connection to Samantha's death as one of those things she will always have to make up for but not something she really is directly responsible for so it wouldn't be a deal breaker in the long run IF she proves her "new" self is a real thing.  

I personally don't see how they, including Felicity, would ever really trust her in any situation where she might have a personal interest in betraying them. 

Even if Felicity remains "friends" I am assuming while she might be willing to spend time with her and even enjoy their interaction, it would be a shallow kind of friendship in the sense that she would be aware that BS might turn on her so she wouldn't risk ever putting important things like her family's lives in her hands except when their interests clearly align or as an ultimate last resort.   So far there's no reason to think Felicity expects loyalty from BS or deeply trusts her, but that she's right now willing to give her a chance on some level since she did come through when she was desperate this time.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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This 708 promo pic irks me - while Oliver's up at the podium, here's Felicity surrounded by all of their so-called 'friends'...

  • E2 Laurel "Serial Killer Who Tried to Kill Olicity and Helped Kill William's Mother" Lance
  • Rene "Who Betrayed Oliver and Tried to Kill Him With an Axe" Ramirez
  • Dinah "Former Vigilante Police Captain Who Now Arrests Vigilantes" Drake
  • John "Who Moved On and Prioritized ARGUS Over Helping Olicity" Diggle
  • Lyla "Felicity Is Fine (Even Though Diaz Almost Killed Her)" Michaels
  • Curtis "I Won't Jeopardize My New ARGUS Job" Holt

AR708a_0242b.jpg 

Edited by tv echo
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3 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

Someone make sure to check in on CanadaGraphs after next episode then. 

Say what you will about Arrow but in terms of looks they've always casted well for the kids (Jack Moore, Ben Lewis as William).

KM looks NOTHING like WH or CH! 

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Here's the problem I have with Maya being Olicity's daughter. From KM's comments, it sounds like Maya grew up an orphan or having to survive on her own. Unless she was kidnapped as a toddler, Oliver & Felicity would've been there to help her. And William is a billionaire, so if he was her brother, he would've helped her too.

New KM interview...

INTERVIEW: ARROW’S KATHERINE MCNAMARA
by Charles Trapunski November 30, 2018
http://brieftake.com/interview-arrow-katherine-mcnamara/

Quote

Everyone has their dream interview and one of ours has been to chat with the brilliantly talented Katherine McNamara. Well our dream came true yesterday (getting to speak with her as an exclusive too!) as she gets set to recur on Arrow in the newly created role of street fighter Maya (a character that doesn’t appear in the comic books).
*  *  *
BT: Talk about an exciting trip, from Toronto for Shadowhunters to Vancouver for Arrow! What can you say about your arc on Arrow?
KM:
I can’t say much, yet! And that’s probably the hardest part about joining the Arrow family, not being able to say anything. You know, there’s so much depth and richness to this character, and it’s soul food for my actor’s soul. Getting to join this new universe, Beth Schwartz, the new showrunner of the show, is really taking it back to its origins of being dark and gritty and truly pushing the limit, which is something Arrow has always done. Maya grew up in an environment that was very hard and very harsh and was forced to learn to simply survive, and she’s a product of that. So she’s very much a punch first, ask questions later kind of gal. [laughs] She’s certainly not one to be messed with or underestimated. So it’s exciting to be a part of this season.

BT: You have many tools in your actor’s arsenal. Is hand-to-hand combat one of them?
KM:
Not before Shadowhunters! But when I came into the show, it was part of the process of it, and I was fortunate enough to be able to learn with my character in a sense. But we had some incredible stunt coordinators who took me from not knowing how to throw a punch or hold a sword, to being able to do about 95% of my fighting and stunts by the end of season 2. It’s been such a gift, and they’ve taught me so much about being a human and being a fighter. And I have the utmost gratitude and respect for them, and now getting to carry that on into Arrow is incredible. Now playing a boxer and someone who fights for a living basically, it’s a really fun thing.
*  *  *
BT: What would you like viewers to look out for on Arrow?
KM:
Something that has been so great is seeing the Shadowhunters fandom and the Arrow fandom really come together in this strange amalgamation of worlds. [laughs] The characters are so different, and I think that is one thing that people will notice right off the bat, which is that where Clary was a beacon of hope and love and community for the Shadowhunters world, Maya is very much a realist and often a cynic in many aspects, and she doesn’t have much hope in her life. But who knows, maybe that will change. [giggles] There’s a lot to happen and a lot to dig into with this character, but moving forward, I hope to have the opportunity to play characters like these that are interesting, and keep growing and changing and learning. My favourite thing is when I read a script and it scares me a little bit, and I question whether or not I can actually accomplish it, because that’s a challenge and an opportunity for growth and learning, and that’s what I strive for in life.
*  *  *
Katherine McNamara’s first appearance on Arrow airs on Monday December 3 on The CW! Shadowhunters returns on Monday February 25. Read more about Kat on her Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook accounts, as well as on her IMDB Page. 

Edited by tv echo
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Just now, tv echo said:

Here's the problem I have with Maya being Olicity's daughter. From KM's comments, it sounds like Maya grew up an orphan or having to survive on her own. Unless she was kidnapped as a toddler, Oliver & Felicity would've been there to help her. And William is a billionaire, so if he was her brother, he would've helped her too.

New KM interview...

INTERVIEW: ARROW’S KATHERINE MCNAMARA
by Charles Trapunski November 30, 2018
http://brieftake.com/interview-arrow-katherine-mcnamara/

She doesn't say she is an orphan though. She just said she grew up in a tough world which Star City is. I mean Oliver and Felicity live in a tough world that requires them to do what they feel they need to survive and make it better. I mean this season in particular it's particularly true for Oliver and Felicity. So I don't think Maya living in a tough world means Maya wasn't loved or was abandoned her whole life.

 

Besides David apparently told some Olicity fans last year that Oliver and Felicity were baby  daughter named Maya.

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I look at any “friendship” with Laurel like this: at least Oliver and Felicity shouldn’t really expect to (maybe ever) fully trust her. So if she helps them, great. 

Meanwhile, the people they should expect to help them aren’t. 

Of course, in-show, they have yet to address this, which is a problem. 

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I'm leaning towards Maya being kidnapped which pushes Felicity over the edge trying to find her kid. Maya's life sounds terrible and no matter how bad Star City is she would have had happy moments if she had her parents.

The kidnapped theory would mean bad things for future Olicity though as I dunno if even epic love can survive the loss of a child. 

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Just now, Mellowyellow said:

I'm leaning towards Maya being kidnapped which pushes Felicity over the edge trying to find her kid. Maya's life sounds terrible and no matter how bad Star City is she would have had happy moments if she had her parents.

The kidnapped theory would mean bad things for future Olicity though as I dunno if even epic love can survive the loss of a child. 

Honestly with the way FF went so far they basically are hinting that Oliver is dead since no one is mentioning what happened to him.

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I'm still strongly on the Oliver and Felicity are deep undercover to try and stop some evil plot or to rescue the other from some evil plot and they or one of them left clues for William and Maya to follow in order to find them or let them know they are okay while still keeping them somewhat safe.

 

I still kind of think Dinah is actually one of the bad guys or thinks she's working for the right side but they are really corrupted hence why Oliver and Felicity haven't trusted her with what's going on.

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It annoys me when people say Olicity is a soap opera because you know if the same exact scenes/lines/etc. were given to Oliver/Laurel, suddenly it would be the best thing ever. 

23 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

I still kind of think Dinah is actually one of the bad guys or thinks she's working for the right side but they are really corrupted hence why Oliver and Felicity haven't trusted her with what's going on.

I'd really like the "vigilante resistance" to be the bad guys, but I doubt it'll happen. Despite how awful NTA continues to be, we're supposed to think they're good guys because comics/masks/etc. 

I do think that Felicity (and Oliver, assuming he's part of it) kept Dinah out for a good reason - namely, everything we're seeing of her supposed "friends" in the present, which is that no one seems to care about helping her. (Though I also would be very, very surprised if this turned out to be true/something addressed.) 

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34 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

It annoys me when people say Olicity is a soap opera because you know if the same exact scenes/lines/etc. were given to Oliver/Laurel, suddenly it would be the best thing ever. 

Comic book Green Arrow(Oliver)/Black Canary(Dinah) are way more of soap opera standard relationship then Olicity have ever been. 

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1 hour ago, KenyaJ said:

Given all the Dinah in the preview, I'm starting to suspect Oliver is working for/with the SCPD. I really hope I'm wrong about that.

Someone important is obviously Maya. And the job I suppose is either to do with this prisoner initiative or ARGUS or something of that ilk. I don’t think SCPD is an option at this point because he does suit up, and while the attitude towards vigilantes may be changing, it’s still illegal. ARGUS can work around that because Suicide Squad. Plus, it would explain Barry as Oliver training with Dig at ARGUS in the crossover.

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I hope it has something to do with Laurel. 

E1 Laurel lived in Star City for most of her life (if not all of it - I don't remember), and it is impossible that Black Siren wouldn't have come across multiple people who were Laurel's friends that she obviously doesn't know or recognize because she's pretending to be someone she isn't. Max Fuller should say something quippy to her at the fundraiser about something in their past and he should get suspicious when Laurel has absolutely no idea what he's talking about, or who he is. And then maybe bring it to some other friends who have talked to her and had the same experience and call her out on it. If it's anything other than that I'm gonna be upset, because Black Siren not having any issues passing for Laurel with people that she surely has a history with outside of the team is unbelievable (as are many things about her arc, but whatever). 

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35 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I don’t think SCPD is an option at this point because he does suit up, and while the attitude towards vigilantes may be changing, it’s still illegal. 

Well, it's not illegal vigilante-ing if he's doing it on the SCPD payroll. And now that Star City is so rah-rah about NGA, it's not crazy that the SCPD might "hire" Oliver to work with them. Like I said, I don't want him to be working with SCPD, but I otherwise can't figure out why Dinah's is in the car telling Oliver she hopes he's not rusty while he's Arrowing and then giving him "advice" about shooting people. IDK, maybe ARGUS and the SCPD are just totally co-dependent this season.

This dork is always so excited about Olicity sex scenes. You and me both, Stephen.

 

So that baby's happening soon, eh?

ETA:  More context for that last tweet. LOL.

Edited by KenyaJ
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24 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

 

I hope it has something to do with Laurel. 

E1 Laurel lived in Star City for most of her life (if not all of it - I don't remember), and it is impossible that Black Siren wouldn't have come across multiple people who were Laurel's friends that she obviously doesn't know or recognize because she's pretending to be someone she isn't. Max Fuller should say something quippy to her at the fundraiser about something in their past and he should get suspicious when Laurel has absolutely no idea what he's talking about, or who he is. And then maybe bring it to some other friends who have talked to her and had the same experience and call her out on it. If it's anything other than that I'm gonna be upset, because Black Siren not having any issues passing for Laurel with people that she surely has a history with outside of the team is unbelievable (as are many things about her arc, but whatever). 

She could just use the whole "kidnapped and tortured for 2 years" as an excuse as to why she cant remember people. 

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3 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

She could just use the whole "kidnapped and tortured for 2 years" as an excuse as to why she cant remember people. 

She could, but it's lame and I'd personally prefer to see her challenged because her sliding into Laurel's life has been so easy so far.

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1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

She could, but it's lame and I'd personally prefer to see her challenged because her sliding into Laurel's life has been so easy so far.

True, I would love if they brought Joanna back for an episode and have her notice something has changed in 'Laurel'. 

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