Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel

[Trisha]

7 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Me too but I am thinking if Arrow ends the first half of CrisisOIE, then it will be on the SHOCK of Oliver dying or at least seeming to die, thus no room for a portal reunion which a happy ending would get in the way of a cliffhanger.  The first half is bound to be Infinity Wars to the second half's Endgame

That’s where I’m at too — it all depends on where Arrow’s crossover lands in relation to their season finale. If their ep is one of the ones in Dec and it’s their last episode ever, I have doubts they’ll change the future or squeeze in a reunion scene. But if Arrow is with LoT and airs their crossover ep in the new year, or is scheduled in such a way that they get a finale after their crossover ep, I’m more hopeful about getting even more closure beyond what we saw in 722. (Of course, Oliver could die in an earlier, non-Arrow crossover ep and Arrow’s ep could resolve it.)

6 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Did SA bail on the upfronts, didn't realise he was supposed to be there.

Yeah, he did an IG Live last night and said his body “tapped out” so he’s been in bed since Sunday and missed the upfronts and some Code 8 premieres. He also blasted Heroes & Villains, calling them “f*@king reprehensible.” There wasn’t any talk of the finale and he just said he’s excited to learn more about S8, but he’s at cons for the next two weekends so I’m sure he’ll reveal more there. [ETA: @tv echo just posted a transcript of his comments in the social media thread]

Edited May 17, 2019 by Trisha

[statsgirl]

Interesting speculation that they filmed more scenes at the cabin

[way2interested]

Tbh, I would sooner guess that those scenes were extra stuff for the montage, but I don't think it would be surprising either way

[insomniadreams88]

Whatever the scenes are for, if they were filmed, I hope we see them. Even if they’re rough cuts. 

[Featherhat]

Yeah difficult to speculate on exactly what they are/were but I'd like to see them, even if only posted as deleted scenes. They could also be useful as flashbacks as Oliver goes about with The Monitor if they aren't for 810.

[tv echo]

I wish I cared...

[jay741982]

16 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Interesting speculation that they filmed more scenes at the cabin

Oh it would be awesome if true! @Mellowyellow would be Squeeing cause of the implications of Baby Lucas on the way!

[tv echo]

In a May 18, 2019 IGN article (posted in the COIE thread in the LoT forum here), the writer suggested that Oliver's storyline in S8 of Arrow could be filling the comics Lyla role. Apparently, in the comics, Lyla Michaels was "an orphan rescued by the Monitor and tasked with helping him prepare for the Crisis by testing the heroes of many worlds."

If Oliver is just going around collecting heroes, then he's the supplicant, asking others for help. But if he's testing the heroes, then they have to prove themselves first.

Edited May 19, 2019 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

 Lyla's code name of "harbinger" gains significance with that connection.  

[tv echo]

SA revealed that another cast member will direct next season...

Stephan Amell MegaCon Orlando 2019 Q&A
Published on May 19, 2019, by The One
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_No5wQBr79o

-- SA: "We have a great stable of directors for Season 8, especially because it's a limited run of episodes. And we have a new cast member directing, but that's not my news to share."

Also, from KM's instagram live video yesterday, I guess they haven't locked down KM for S8 yet...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mIrc8NIoas
(Golden Warrior)

-- KM: "Yes, there will be a Season 8 of Arrow. Yes, it will be 10 episodes. Um, I don't know - I know I'm not dead... I don't know what my involvement will be at this point - or if, or when, or whenever. I hope to be back as Mia. We'll see. Um, but yes, there will be a Season 8 of Arrow."

Edited May 21, 2019 by tv echo

[way2interested]

48 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Also, from KM's instagram live video yesterday, I guess they haven't locked down KM for S8 yet...

I wonder if they just didn't settle her contract yet or if there's a conflict in making the FF cast series regulars or not, since they are clearly doing FF in s8 and JDJ and BL both said they'd be back.

[BkWurm1]

The FF's are the one thing I was actually looking forward to next season so I hope they don't end up changing things or losing actors.  I suppose it's possible that BS has put the fear of her wrath in her cast again re upcoming spoilers and KM is just being cagey.  I mean you really don't want the pregnant lady cussing you out.  

[Featherhat]

I think she will be back but they maybe haven't locked down the number or status. They also might be waiting to reveal news at SDCC.

[Sunshine]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

SA revealed that another cast member will direct next season...

Stephan Amell MegaCon Orlando 2019 Q&A
Published on May 19, 2019, by The One
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_No5wQBr79o

-- SA: "We have a great stable of directors for Season 8, especially because it's a limited run of episodes. And we have a new cast member directing, but that's not my news to share."

So is Sara Lance returning to Arrow with Caity Lotz directing an episode? She was shadowing Bamford.

[BkWurm1]

CL and makes sense to direct Arrow rather than Legends.  Not having to do double duty would make directing a lot easier I'd think.  Plus I also wonder if Legends is just too bonkers to start off with, lol. 

[jay741982]

5 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

CL and makes sense to direct Arrow rather than Legends.  Not having to do double duty would make directing a lot easier I'd think.  Plus I also wonder if Legends is just too bonkers to start off with, lol. 

With their seeming love of Rene and Dinah I wouldnt be surprised if JH or RG is the one directing a Episode  next season

[Proteus]

6 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

CL and makes sense to direct Arrow rather than Legends.  Not having to do double duty would make directing a lot easier I'd think.  Plus I also wonder if Legends is just too bonkers to start off with, lol. 

Caity confirmed she is directing Legends.

[Velocity23]

Honestly i thought Katie Cassidy. Because she was on set a lot for the first episode of s7 with like 1 min of actual screentime. 

Also JH and Rick would have to attend one of the WB workshops so they could direct. Since they keep spending time in Vancouver even during hiatus, i think its highly unlikely. 

[tv echo]

This reviewer compared Felicity's leaving with the Monitor at the end of 722 to the end of COIE in the comics (posting here because comics spoiler)...

CW’s Arrow: Season 7 – Episode 22 (Finale): “You Have Saved This City ” recap, breakdown, comic universe connections”
By Chad A. Burdette on May 21, 2019
https://blog.timesunion.com/comicbooks/cws-arrow-season-7-episode-22-you-have-saved-this-city-recap-breakdown-comic-universe-connections/17038/ 

Quote

Through both storylines, Emily Bett Rickards aka Felicity is given a fitting send-off, as this was her final episode. 
-Felicity leaving with the Monitor is reminiscent of  the end of the original Crisis on Infinite Earths

It leads me to think that Oliver is not really dead even though he supposedly dies in Crisis.

Edited May 22, 2019 by tv echo

[Trisha]

Universe hopping with The Monitor, perhaps?

[Trisha]

Welp. I’m suddenly much less confident about EBR returning for S8:

http://collider.com/emily-bett-rickards-interview-funny-story-arrow-final-season/

Quote

Now that we know that the next season of Arrow is the last season, even though it feels like Felicity’s story came to a satisfying conclusion, would you like to return, in some capacity, with it being the last season of the show?

RICKARDS:  I feel like Felicity has done her time. I don’t know if anybody is going to like what I’m saying, but I feel like Felicity has done her time. We knew this was coming for awhile – for over a year – so the whole thing is exactly what we wanted to happen. I trust the writers, and that’s in their hands.

When you have a goodbye like Felicity had, at the end of the season, you also don’t want to mess that up by coming back and taking away from that. 

RICKARDS:  Yes, exactly.

[Guest]

I appreciate EBR wanting to move on and not wanting to do tons of episodes but could she not even do one scene in the finale? That’s disappointing tbh. 

Although I kinda guessed this already because her goodbyes felt so very final.

I only hope they’ve filmed the future Olicity reunion already because that was the only thing missing from 722, IMO.

[way2interested]

Anyone can be convinced to """mess that up by coming back""" for money and opportunity, which is why she didn't come out and say no.

[Mellowyellow]

Could go either way. Either she's totally done and really over it or she's hedging. 

If that were me I might not necessarily be all "of course I'd love to come back" and sound super helpful because I'd want to hold out for more money/better storyline if I came back. 

I'm personally surprisingly zen either way. I think as time passes people will move onto other things and it won't be a huge deal anymore.

[JamieLynn832002]

I do think it's entirely possible they already filmed anything they'd need for season 8 since it probably wouldn't be more than few scenes in the finale. I want to see the reunion (and would love a rewritten future where Oliver's daughter acually gets to remember him/Olicity get to grow old together) but all things considered, I am satisfied with the ending we got and can understand Emily not wanting to possibly damage that by coming back for something that could easily be subpar.

[BkWurm1]

What I take from that comment is if the writers came up with with something good that didn't step on her other ending, meaning it added positively to Felicity's ending, we have a chance of a real return.  If the show ended up undoing the future, I'd think that a return would then be meaningful and I also wouldn't completely rule out a cameo like a shot of them reuniting since that wouldn't lessen the impact IMO, but she probably would have to be in a slightly different mindset then she was when she gave the interview since she's pretty satisfied with her ending.  Which, I can see why she would be. 

She's in a way protecting the character and Olicity.  Still, that actual choice to return for perhaps just a brief reunion, that's not a choice EBR will actually make for months and she very well might have that different mindset and want to add a bit more to the happy ending.  Or in the case of an undone future, be there to support the writers in that new ending.  Not to mention if SA thought it was really important for her to return and she didn't have commitments, I get the feeling he could convince her. 

BUT that's a big if since I'm still assuming right now that Arrow already had it's official ending and now we just will be seeing Oliver in a crossover.    

[apinknightmare]

If Oliver’s ending is going to be changed and he lives, then I would love to see even a quick reunion. If it’s not and he’s going to die like Monitor says he is, then I would prefer to not see any grieving or heartbreak and just have my last thoughts of her being what we already saw in the finale, since that ended on such a surprisingly hopeful note. 

[BkWurm1]

8 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Could go either way. Either she's totally done and really over it or she's hedging. 

If that were me I might not necessarily be all "of course I'd love to come back" and sound super helpful because I'd want to hold out for more money/better storyline if I came back. 

I'm personally surprisingly zen either way. I think as time passes people will move onto other things and it won't be a huge deal anymore.

I'm not so sure of the part I highlighted. I don't think there's enough time for people to move on before Crisis.   I'd say people now are as about the same level of zen they likely will be by the time the end rolls around.  It's only about six months and in tv time, that's not a lot for a main star. 

But at least I think collectively if she doesn't return, I don't think people will be any more upset than they've already expressed.  If we'd had an unsatisfying end this season, it would be so much worse.    

[BkWurm1]

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

If Oliver’s ending is going to be changed and he lives, then I would love to see even a quick reunion. If it’s not and he’s going to die like Monitor says he is, then I would prefer to not see any grieving or heartbreak and just have my last thoughts of her being what we already saw in the finale, since that ended on such a surprisingly hopeful note. 

I agree, though they probably could show the timeline had changed without having to have her back. They even could just have her call his name off screen or something using old audio. 

If he was to die, I still would love to get their actual reunion, i just question where the crossover would be able to fit that in to the story they would be telling.  

[Mellowyellow]

9 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm not so sure of the part I highlighted. I don't think there's enough time for people to move on before Crisis.   I'd say people now are as about the same level of zen they likely will be by the time the end rolls around.  It's only about six months and in tv time, that's not a lot for a main star. 

But at I think collectively if she doesn't return, I don't think people will be any more upset than they've already expressed.  If we'd had an unsatisfying end this season, it would be so much worse.    

This is probably better explained than what I wrote.  Personally I've had 3 existential crises since the finale so my mind was on that😂

I do think there will be fans who move onto other shows/ books etc. It is nice things ended the way they did though. 

[statsgirl]

I think as an actor EBR is done with Felicity. She lived the role for 7 years and got an almost perfect send-off.  EBR has always been more pragmatic about acting and the character of Felicity than we the audience are, and more the SA is.  She's ready for other challenges.

That said, do I think that she would return if offered money and asked to in order to wrap up the show that provided the opportunity for her to have a real acting career? Absolutely.

[insomniadreams88]

Would I like to see Felicity back and an Olicity reunion? Yes. But as long as Olicity’s happy ending is preserved, I’m okay. 

(In other words, don’t pull anything near a HIMYM. But I could never see Arrow doing that.)

[Velocity23]

So Stephen confirms Oliver will be following Monitor from s8 premiere. So no trips to Star city or the team. 

[Mellowyellow]

10 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Would I like to see Felicity back and an Olicity reunion? Yes. But as long as Olicity’s happy ending is preserved, I’m okay. 

(In other words, don’t pull anything near a HIMYM. But I could never see Arrow doing that.)

I just love how people universally agree that the HIMYM was awful. It's become memorable for the worst ending ever too. I've forgotten shows I disliked, shows I loved, shows I loved that annoyed me after a while but I'll always gripe about that HIMYM ending. 

[kes0704]

I’m glad Stephen more or less confirmed that Oliver is on Monitor tasks for S8. It’s probably going to annoy me for awhile that the show was pushed down this pathway simply because TPTB wanted the Crisis crossover. 

[Featherhat]

2 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Would I like to see Felicity back and an Olicity reunion? Yes. But as long as Olicity’s happy ending is preserved, I’m okay. 

(In other words, don’t pull anything near a HIMYM. But I could never see Arrow doing that.)

Me too. If she's able to come back for the finale or a really interesting alternate Felicity or whatever, then great. If not as long as the preserve the ending I'm happy. I don't think they're changing that future, that's the kids story to tell and I don't think I Oliver's dead. I can't see them swerving the bittersweet/happy ending after all that effort,( although you never know after HIMYM and comics!) And we now have even more proof that that was basically the series finale of Arrow.

if they wanted they could even do the mirror of that came from Oliver's POV with him smiling seeing her arrive. If they do change the future to a happier one then there are ways of doing it without EBR having to be there if she really is 100% done.

of course this relies heavily on them not undoing the perfect ending for drama in the last 10, but they have a lot already going on.

[Velocity23]

9 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Me too. If she's able to come back for the finale or a really interesting alternate Felicity or whatever, then great. If not as long as the preserve the ending I'm happy. I don't think they're changing that future, that's the kids story to tell and I don't think I Oliver's dead. I can't see them swerving the bittersweet/happy ending after all that effort,( although you never know after HIMYM and comics!) And we now have even more proof that that was basically the series finale of Arrow.

if they wanted they could even do the mirror of that came from Oliver's POV with him smiling seeing her arrive. If they do change the future to a happier one then there are ways of doing it without EBR having to be there if she really is 100% done.

of course this relies heavily on them not undoing the perfect ending for drama in the last 10, but they have a lot already going on.

Even HIMYM had thrown in some moments for the other couple. That is non existant on Arrow. 

[Featherhat]

19 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Even HIMYM had thrown in some moments for the other couple. That is non existant on Arrow. 

By "other couple" do you mean Ted/Tracey? (Insert rather about amazingness of actually finding a great mother). Yeah there's been nothing about anyone else, though that might have changed if SA wanted to do another couple of seasons, it was more mess it up for the sake of a gotcha! Or over complicating stuff when there's more than enough of that already going on.

[Velocity23]

10 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

By "other couple" do you mean Ted/Tracey? (Insert rather about amazingness of actually finding a great mother). Yeah there's been nothing about anyone else, though that might have changed if SA wanted to do another couple of seasons, it was more mess it up for the sake of a gotcha! Or over complicating stuff when there's more than enough of that already going on.

Stephen originally wanted to leave at the same time as Emily and only said yes because Berlanti wanted to do Crisis. From the way it sounded both Emily and Stephen were slated to leave at the same time. Its probably why there was no SL for Oliver and his journey as a solo hero was concluded by the time he came out of prison. Arrow would have continued as David Ramsey as the lead at least in the present time.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Velocity23

[Featherhat]

I suspect it would have been a combination of David, noobs, Emiko and the Legacy kids ( and they might still continue 2040, one reason I think it won't get reset). But I agree SA was done before they agreed on "The Adventures of Oliver and The Monitor" leading to crisis.

[Trisha]

We can always count on DR to give us stuff at cons:

[Velocity23]

David kind of implying that some people wont be in all episodes makes me wonder who he is referring to from the cast lol.  But since Rick Gonzalez booked a con in London in late July for Friday, Saturday and Sunday makes me think Rick might be sparingly used and probably Juliana also. 

Edited May 25, 2019 by Velocity23

[Gizmo321]

I'm holding out hope that season 8 gives Oliver, Felicity, William, and Mia a do-over and they end up having a much happier ending than the rather bleak one shown in season 7. It'd be nice to see Oliver and Felicity break the cycle and raise Mia and William together. Hope Springs eternal.

Perhaps the writers will present EBR a scenerio that tops the send off that Felicity got in season 7.

[tv echo]

I think that it might depend on whether or not TPTB decide to go ahead with development of a next generation spinoff - and that might depend on whether or not KM is willing to commit to another TV show for several years. She seems pretty busy with movies and stuff.

They'll probably know by SDCC. In any event, it'll be interesting to see which cast members are selected to participate in the Arrow panel.

Edited May 26, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I have been thinking way too much about the season finale and next season. If Oliver left with the Monitor in September or October 2019 and ends up 'dying' in December 2019, and then the Crisis is over in January 2020, then is Oliver just hanging out in a pocket universe for 20 years until Felicity joins him? If so, then is he alone for 20 years or are there other people in this pocket universe? Or is he is off doing stuff for the Monitor, but would he need to be if the Crisis was averted? Also, if the Crisis resulted in the merge of all AU universes in 2020, then how could he still be doing stuff on other Earths after the Crisis is over in 2020?

I guess I'm picturing Oliver alone for 20 years in his own little universe, just like he was supposed to be alone on Lian Yu. Wouldn't that drive a person mad?

Or if time passes differently, would he still be young when Felicity joins him? Or does he just wake up one morning and it's 20 years later?

Edited May 26, 2019 by tv echo

[Mellowyellow]

5 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I guess I'm picturing Oliver alone for 20 years in his own little universe, just like he was supposed to be alone on Lian Yu. Wouldn't that drive a person mad?

Or if time passes differently, would he still be young when Felicity joins him? Or does he just wake up one morning and it's 20 years later?

I don't really know either but my personal view is that since the Monitor was ready for Felicity to call him whenever she wanted then he probably told Oliver that Felicity will join Oliver one day. Whenever that day may be they don't know because that depends on how the kids are faring and if she dies on Earth 1 (obviously she didn't).

I think if he's in a peaceful place just waiting that would be ok. I am assuming this is nothing like Lian Yu and just a nice place with a house and fields and amenities. It would be sad but there is also A LOT of hope. I guess you'd garden, cook, knit, build stuff etc and just wait. It's actually a lot better than losing your true love forever imo. 

[Featherhat]

I don't know if KMN wants to commit to another show so soon after Shadowhunters, but the conversation will definitely have happened in the last year and they're still considering a spin off as of April so she might. It's not a bad idsa for her, CW is a logical stepping point for Freeform stars whereas movies can be patchy and GB is good to work for with how many shows he gets green lit. Of course she doesn't have to spin off to have the advantage of that. She does seem to be on a big publicity campaign for the last few months, more than many FF and CW actors.

Re Oliver, I assume he's somewhere relaxing, maybe with others who can't go back to the merged world's or whatever happens. Maybe doing occasion missions/visits/apparitions to "alive" people so SA can maybe pop in to other shows. Maybe time doesn't flow in the same way it does on Earth. It's probably best if they don't try to go into too much detail if he is in some sort of pocket/paradise universe.

One advantage of EBR leaving what turned out to be 10 eps early is that she got a lot more personal articles dedicated to her and Felicity and (maybe) more emphasis on her wrap up storyline than she might otherwise have got because they had to be careful with it and it was pre the crossover prep. But we'll see how the other characters fare next season I guess.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Featherhat

[way2interested]

I don't think the spinoff development has anything to do with want of commitment and more to do with negotiating appearances for an only 10 episode season with or without a series regular spot and without the actual push for a spinoff anymore.

[Trisha]

Looks like EBR got some questions today about S8:

Also, this is very cute:

[BkWurm1]

6 hours ago, tv echo said:

I have been thinking way too much about the season finale and next season. If Oliver left with the Monitor in September or October 2019 and ends up 'dying' in December 2019, and then the Crisis is over in January 2020, then is Oliver just hanging out in a pocket universe for 20 years until Felicity joins him? If so, then is he alone for 20 years or are there other people in this pocket universe? Or is he is off doing stuff for the Monitor, but would he need to be if the Crisis was averted? Also, if the Crisis resulted in the merge of all AU universes in 2020, then how could he still be doing stuff on other Earths after the Crisis is over in 2020?

I guess I'm picturing Oliver alone for 20 years in his own little universe, just like he was supposed to be alone on Lian Yu. Wouldn't that drive a person mad?

Or if time passes differently, would he still be young when Felicity joins him? Or does he just wake up one morning and it's 20 years later?

The baby was too old IMO for for him to have left in September.  But that doesn't matter.  For all we know, his adventures with the Monitor take place out of normal time.  Or maybe all in a succession so like only  a week of real time has gone by.  Or the Monitor grabbed him out of his time and brought him back in time or something.  Maybe they will explain it but I'm not counting on it to fully make sense but the Monitor doesn't fully make sense so that's ok.  

For the twenty years, I'm going with time passes differently so for her it was twenty years and for him, still a long time but you'd think he'd go insane if he was in solitude for twenty years so if he was, his perception would have to be different.  

Or maybe if it's really a paradise type dimension, he has imitation people to keep him company like the alien mind probe device and then when Felicity arrives, they could raise a version of their kids at least.  A paradise would mean different things to different people.  Aruba would be great for a while but there would have to be other things other than pleasant surroundings to keep them happy.