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Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel

Door County Cherry

By Door County Cherry
in Arrow

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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

(edited)

Since they contain spoilers from the new preview, I'm putting these tweets here. I love these kids so much.

 
ETA: I love one TV family.
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Edited by KenyaJ
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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

Anyone who actually thinks she's dead deserves the crushing disappointment they'll feel when they find out she isn't. 

Chaser
Chaser

“Felicity my love, let’s make a baby. I want to expand our family.” ”Oh Oliver...” ”That way a piece of me will always be with you.” ..........”What the Fuck did you do?”

apinknightmare
apinknightmare

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

I'm keeping my expectations low for tonight's episode, so I won't be disappointed. Part of me is still dreading that the "devastating news" will be something to do with Felicity or Oliver. Meanwhile, I think that 716 will answer only a few of the questions below....

Arrow: Here Are 10+ Questions the Big Flash-Forward Episode Better Answer
By Vlada Gelman / March 17 2019
https://tvline.com/2019/03/17/arrow-season-7-flash-forward-episode-questions/

Quote

1 | How did Oliver and Felicity hide her pregnancy from the outside world, namely their close friends and family? Really big ferns?

2 | Why did Oliver and Felicity lose touch with William, as he claims?

3 | Is Oliver dead in 2040?

4 | We’ve seen future versions of Roy, Rene and Dinah — but where is Diggle?!

5 | Is Connor Hawke indeed Bronze Tiger’s grown-up son, as heavily hinted this past week? If so, does that mean Dante or Emiko is about to orphan the kid?

6 | Why isn’t Dig’s biological son, John Jr., around in the future? (Remember: Although Legends of Tomorrow‘s version of 2046 represented an alternate future, John Jr. there operated as Connor Hawke aka Green Arrow.)

7 | From whom did Mia learn to fight? Izzy?

8 | What exactly drove Felicity to go into hiding?

9 | How did Roy end up on Lian Yu, where William found him in the season opener? What happened between him and Thea?

10 | When and why did Rene cross over to the other side? How did he become mayor of the Glades? (Was the word “hoss” part of his campaign slogan?)

11 | Was there a specific incident that caused Star City’s downfall and the Glades’ rise?

12 | Is Big Belly Burger still around in 2040?

Edited by tv echo
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Trisha

Trisha

After I saw this on Twitter I went back and rewatched the scene where's Mia's getting a tattoo alongside a cage match. It's really dark and short, but that top fighter could definitely be SA. (And would explain why he flew back to Vancouver when there was still a couple days left of shooting this ep.) 

I love the idea that Oliver is wherever Mia is, secretly staying close.

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bijoux

bijoux

Yup, both the fighting style and the physique resemble Oliver. And though the hair might be tactical in this case, it’s so tragic. Maybe there is a fate worse than death?

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Trisha

Trisha

13 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Wouldn't he have flown up to shoot the birth scene? 

Maybe but I can't imagine that scene taking more than a day, and he flew back when there were still 3 days left in shooting.

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Guest

Guest

I think SA just filmed the birth scene but I can't deny that actually does kinda look like Oliver though. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

7 minutes ago, Trisha said:

Maybe but I can't imagine that scene taking more than a day, and he flew back when there were still 3 days left in shooting.

Did he stay for all three days? 

The hairy cage fighter does resemble Oliver, and if that's him then kudos on him for being able to fight like that (and still looking like that) at 55. 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

I didn't pay attention at the time.  I'm not sure if it is/isn't Oliver/SA but, the second picture, kind of looks like there's a scar/mark where the Dragon Tattoo was.  Of course that could just be a bloody handprint.

I think it if was SA/Oliver we'd have gotten a hint last night but, i suppose they could be saving it for the finale or something.  Will put it down as a question mark for now.

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Trisha

Trisha

2 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I didn't pay attention at the time.  I'm not sure if it is/isn't Oliver/SA but, the second picture, kind of looks like there's a scar/mark where the Dragon Tattoo was.  Of course that could just be a bloody handprint.

Yeah, if you open the Twitter thread some people have replied with closeups of his back and face and it looks like Oliver. But who knows? I'm pretty confident Oliver didn't die in Crisis just because it's so predictable, so maybe he's in hiding/undercover?

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bijoux

bijoux

Even if it’s not Oliver, kudos for the show for having someone so much like him fighting there when Mia decides to take a swing at it just for the emotional connection.

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

If the show went with Oliver was always there but never got to be with his daughter it would kill me worse than if he died.   

And also not make much sense.   And they still owe me a reason why they could never see or contact William again.  

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

If we go with the Ninth Circle theory (mentioned upthread somewhere) that the baddies need a biological Queen descendant, then Oliver & Felicity might've tried to protect their children by hiding Mia away and discontinuing all contact with William (whose last name was changed to Harris). They might've been afraid that, no matter how careful they were, their secret communications might be intercepted.

Instead of Ninth Circle, it's Eden Corps (now Galaxy One) and ARGUS.

Right now, I'm leaning toward the theory that Oliver's deal with the Monitor was to take the Monitor's place for 20 years. No basis for this theory.

Edited by tv echo
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

If the show went with Oliver was always there but never got to be with his daughter it would kill me worse than if he died.   

And also not make much sense.   And they still owe me a reason why they could never see or contact William again.  

It's possible that Oliver was around and with Felicity/Mia for years (just not shown in flashbacks). However, he would leave for long stretches of time, to "serve" kind of like a soldier getting deployed or Clinton/Hawkeye going on Avengers missions. 

Then maybe a few years before Mia runs away, he has to disappear for a very long stretch of time.

I half wondered if they were giving Mia a similar family life to Felicity. Anger issues with mom because they're very different + resentment for dad who left when she was young(ish).

There's a lot of vagueness surrounding the whole situation that it's really difficult to tell. I wouldn't be the least but surprised to have Oliver turn up alive in 722 flash forward as a tease/tag setting up S8.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

Please let Alena also know about the pregnancy. I know that they've made it a point that they had to keep Mia secret, but I really do just enjoy Dinah and Rene being left out of the loop and would laugh if every episode, we learn another person knew about Mia. (714/715 Diggle, 716 - Nyssa, 717 - Alena, 718 - Sara?)

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bijoux

bijoux

21 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Please let Alena also know about the pregnancy. I know that they've made it a point that they had to keep Mia secret, but I really do just enjoy Dinah and Rene being left out of the loop and would laugh if every episode, we learn another person knew about Mia. (714/715 Diggle, 716 - Nyssa, 717 - Alena, 718 - Sara?)

Exact same thought popped into my head. 😁

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Trisha

Trisha

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

Right now, I'm leaning toward the theory that Oliver's deal with the Monitor was to take the Monitor's place for 20 years. No basis for this theory

The Monitor oversees everything and dips in and out of different timelines/Earths, right? I don't mind this theory, because it means that at least Oliver could be pop in at various times during Mia's childhood.

But I think after Crisis the multiverse is combined into a single Earth, so post-crossover I'm not sure the Monitor has anything left to...monitor? 

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KenyaJ

KenyaJ

27 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

ARR717b_0279b.thumb.jpg.2793af3d829ff42382c59a2735e8c4e3.jpg

16 episodes from now, I'm no longer going to be able to see Oliver gaze at Felicity like she hung the moon and the stars. I'm already hurt.

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insomniadreams88

insomniadreams88

At least the promo and press release sort of line up. If you looked at the photos and read the press release, you probably wouldn't be able to tell they're for the same episode without the title/number attached. Obviously it all depends on when the photographer is on set, but still. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
4 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

It's possible that Oliver was around and with Felicity/Mia for years (just not shown in flashbacks). However, he would leave for long stretches of time, to "serve" kind of like a soldier getting deployed or Clinton/Hawkeye going on Avengers missions. 

Then maybe a few years before Mia runs away, he has to disappear for a very long stretch of time.

I half wondered if they were giving Mia a similar family life to Felicity. Anger issues with mom because they're very different + resentment for dad who left when she was young(ish).

There's a lot of vagueness surrounding the whole situation that it's really difficult to tell. I wouldn't be the least but surprised to have Oliver turn up alive in 722 flash forward as a tease/tag setting up S8.

Absolutely.  Yeah, I said something similar about him having possibly been around a lot while she was growing up in the episode thread.  The show is leaving room to toss in that twist and things like Mia being upset over not being prioritized works more into that angle.  Still, even if they had a semi-happy at times at least family life, the rest of the world is crap and I don't want that to be Oliver and Felicity's heroic legacy (pre the kids)  It still make the everything else they tried to do to save the city a failure and I just think that's a terrible ending so crossing fingers that there will be a reset.  

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

717 promo pics...

https://www.cwtvpr.com/the-cw/photos?page=1&show=arrow&season=&episode=

FYI I noticed here on the site that they released pics of Felicity in her robe and mask from the party that I don't recall seeing released before.  (From Star CIty 2040, scroll down)

Edited by BkWurm1
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JamieLynn832002

JamieLynn832002

6 hours ago, bijoux said:

And though the hair might be tactical in this case, it’s so tragic. Maybe there is a fate worse than death?

I feel like this is a point towards it being Oliver. I mean, this is next-level tragic but the boy's hair has had some fairly tragic periods. It's kind of always wavered between pretty good and "ew, no, why?" But tragic hair seems to be par for the course in future SC, see whatever died on Rene's head so maybe not.

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bijoux

bijoux

26 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Absolutely.  Yeah, I said something similar about him having possibly been around a lot while she was growing up in the episode thread.  The show is leaving room to toss in that twist and things like Mia being upset over not being prioritized works more into that angle.  Still, even if they had a semi-happy at times at least family life, the rest of the world is crap and I don't want that to be Oliver and Felicity's heroic legacy (pre the kids)  It still make the everything else they tried to do to save the city a failure and I just think that's a terrible ending so crossing fingers that there will be a reset.  

Plus, that still leaves Will out and that's just too sad. I think I'm probably more invested in his well being than Mia's. I blame Ben for that. 

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

56 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

FYI I noticed here on the site that they released pics of Felicity in her robe and mask from the party that I don't recall seeing released before.  (From Star CIty 2040, scroll down)

I think they were added after the episode because they would have spoiled that Felicity is alive.

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Simba122504

Simba122504

(edited)
On 3/8/2019 at 9:08 AM, WonderArtist said:

Disagree, his death would have huge impact across this multiverse, they have created. His legacy will be even bigger in death....with this ending. Its a happy ending, in a twisted way....😉

Just an Opinion.

I don't have an issue with the hero/lead dying if it fits the story in the end. But since the pilot. Oliver always talks about "Saving the city." Damn, I figured he would at least reach that goal before these S7 flashforwards were born. The city will never be crime free but I didn't expect it to go to completely to hell either. *It's like everything he went through was for nothing* 😢😄

Edited by Simba122504
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Blech - I don't like this theory any better than the COIE theory 😬...

Arrow Easter Egg May Hint At Oliver Queen's Death In Season 8
BY MATT MORRISON – ON MAR 20, 2019
https://screenrant.com/arrow-season-8-oliver-queen-death-eden-corps/

Quote

Given that the 10 episode order for season 8 would place the final episode of Arrow right around the time of Crisis on Infinite Earths, it has been assumed that Oliver would die as part of the event. However, episode 16 of Arrow season 7, "Star City 2040," suggested otherwise. It dropped a reference to the Eden Corps, a terrorist organization from the classic Green Arrow books responsible for Oliver Queen's original death.
*  *  *
Where Angels Fear To Tread was a storyline that ran from Green Arrow #96 through Green Arrow #101. The plot saw Oliver Queen (who by this point had been exposed to the world at large as Green Arrow) recruited by the NSA to infiltrate the eco-terrorist Eden Corps. Oliver uncovered proof that Eden Corps was planning to attack the city of Metropolis with a biological weapon, but he found himself on the plane containing the bomb before he could report the plot to his handlers. Left bleeding out from multiple bullet wounds while clutching a dead man's switch that would either release the bacterial agent or trigger an explosive self-destruct sequence - and with Superman unable to think of a way to stop the bomb that wouldn't kill Oliver in the process - Green Arrow chose to blow up the plane, sacrificing himself to save millions.
*  *  *
It may be a coincidence that the villains in the comics responsible for killing Green Arrow should be introduced into the Arrowverse just as Oliver Queen's death is on audiences' minds. Still, there would be a fitting resonance should Oliver Queen die saving Star City from an Eden Corps plot in Arrow season 8, given that his first mission as a hero in season 1 involved his trying (and ultimately failing) to stop Malcolm Merlyn's Undertaking from destroying the Glades. Such a sacrifice would being Arrow full circle, allowing Oliver Queen to die doing the only thing he ever truly wanted to do as a hero - save his city.

Edited by tv echo
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

Oliver dying to save Star City and thus not getting to be there while his children grow up only works if Star City isn't a pest hole and Eden Corp hasn't risen again to even greater power making his sacrifice feel pretty weak.  If he died and Star City hit a turning point and everyone rallied around his death and became the dream city that Oliver wished for his family, it would be bittersweet but feel like he accomplished something, but just dying to hold back annihilation for another year makes if feel like just another May and that Oliver failed to find another way.   

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kes0704

kes0704

They’re trying to set up and sell their audience on a spin-off. A dead Oliver Queen at the final credits, a city that’s a hellish place to live in the future and missing out on a life with his wife, raising their kids would be a terrible ending for him after 7 years, at least it would be for me. 

It’d cast a sense of gloom over everything and feel like he spent all that time  fighting to save the city and he only briefly delayed the awful future that was looming. 

If that’s the starting point for a spin-off, I don’t know that I’d be lining up to watch what comes next with the Arrow kids because it might just be another mission doomed to ultimately fail.

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