Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[Trisha]

27 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Just yesterday I saw some screengrab of Steve replying to a rant on Facebook and this was his answer again -- the "we're only halfway through the season" excuse. "You gave to be patient" "It'll all make sense once the season is over"... Sorry, none of those answers work anymore. It's like he's replying from 2005.

This is the first time I've ever really read through his wall's visitor posts. Are people usually this salty? Because there were quite a few long complaints about S5 posted yesterday (mostly mocking his previous comments about "protecting his character" and "the core cast is the core cast is the core cast"), and those were the posts that were getting the most amount of likes. I'm glad because it means that he's actually seeing them, but I always thought his FB was a giant echo chamber of praise. I wonder when it turned?

Also, every time he implied that we're being too quick to judge I wanted to yell "PEAK TV!!" You can't expect people to sit through 11 hours of television anymore, offering them no clues about the plot's direction, interactions with their faves or glimpses of the light at the end of the tunnel, and still expect them to stick with it when there are dozens of much better options out there.

[Belinea]

@dtissagirl: Thank you:

I read that one 'rant' (which has a lot of valid points imo) but I didn't read his response. I admit, the way he responds with 'it's too bad', basically means to mean that you should just stop watching. Maybe he means it in a 'sorry' type of way. But he basically says that he can't help if you lost the connection with the show because they produce their best product and if you don't feel it 'too bad'. Obviously he cannot come out and say I agree but his response still gives me a 'oh well, s*** happens, bye bye' type of feeling. But then again it is just me.

[lemotomato]

Just now, Belinea said:

@dtissagirl: Thank you:

I read that one 'rant' (which has a lot of valid points imo) but I didn't read his response. I admit, the way he responds with 'it's too bad', basically means to mean that you should just stop watching. Maybe he means it in a 'sorry' type of way. But he basically says that he can't help if you lost the connection with the show because they produce their best product and if you don't feel it 'too bad'. Obviously he cannot come out and say I agree but his response still gives me a 'oh well, s*** happens, bye bye' type of feeling. But then again it is just me.

SA consistently has two responses to fan complaints on his wall: a) Please be patient, we're only xxx into the season and b) Sorry to see you go. He said the same things last season to the comic bros. 

[dtissagirl]

18 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

A problem with that is that it makes me expect some really epic episodes to end the season that will explain the 20ish episodes before. That's a lot of pressure to put on, say, 3 episodes out of a 23-episode season when the list of grievances already is crazy long and we're just hitting the midway point of the season. 

This is a good point. I kinda see it as the other way around -- this "you have to be patient" mentality ends up telling me that I'll have to suck it up for the rando middle of the season episodes that are obviously just busywork. And hey, that used to work for me in '90s. That's like, entirely how The X-Files did their seasons. Stargate SG-1 did 10 years of stuffing fillers all over non-Sweeps months. It was how it was done. Bottle episodes, clip shows, anything to fill out a week when the budget a was tight or when the writers room was running behind on more important episodes.

But then in the mid 2000s shows like 24 and Lost reset the speed of TV. They accelerated the pace of narrative to levels that made filler episodes stand out a lot more than the era before. And then came #peakTV, and having 450+ shows available has made it pretty clear who can do highly sophisticated serialization without the busywork, and who can't. Arrow kinda can't.

[Belinea]

7 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

a) Please be patient, we're only xxx into the season and b) Sorry to see you go. He said the same things last season to the comic bros. 

a) 5B wasn't good for anybody. The last episodes were not really that great and b) how many people do they expect to be left with a response as such. Ironically, they are actively trying to get those people back now which doesn't seem to be working in a big way.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Belinea

[Midnight Lullaby]

16 minutes ago, Trisha said:

This is the first time I've ever really read through his wall's visitor posts. Are people usually this salty? Because there were quite a few long complaints about S5 posted yesterday (mostly mocking his previous comments about "protecting his character" and "the core cast is the core cast is the core cast"), and those were the posts that were getting the most amount of likes. I'm glad because it means that he's actually seeing them, but I always thought his FB was a giant echo chamber of praise. I wonder when it turned?

Also, every time he implied that we're being too quick to judge I wanted to yell "PEAK TV!!" You can't expect people to sit through 11 hours of television anymore, offering them no clues about the plot's direction, interactions with their faves or glimpses of the light at the end of the tunnel, and still expect them to stick with it when there are dozens of much better options out there.

There were salty posts in the past too..like people that were calling the show Felicity and Friends, or were mad they killed off LL but it seems to me there used to be more fans that wanted to drown those voices with praises so my impression is that the salty posts have increased since this summer but I wouldn't know if it's because there are more than in the past or there are less people willing to disagree with them.

[lemotomato]

1 minute ago, Belinea said:

a) Last season didn't pay off for anybody. The last episodes were not really that great and b) how many people expect they to be left with a response as such. Ironically, they are actively trying to get those people back now which doesn't seem to be working in a big way.

That's my point-- that his responses don't actually mean anything with regard to what will happen on the show. 

[Trisha]

21 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I kinda see it as the other way around -- this "you have to be patient" mentality ends up telling me that I'll have to suck it up for the rando middle of the season episodes that are obviously just busywork.

Exactly. And it's not like this show has a good track record of sticking the landing if you do suck it up during the bad stretches. TV shows "teach you" how to watch them. If you've been a viewer for multiple seasons, you tend to know what to expect. And for the last couple of seasons, this show started really strong and then fell apart in the last half. So the idea that we should just sit back and trust that the ship will right itself is asking a lot.

Also, I don't think anyone else posted this yet but Stephen also attempted to explain/downplay ratings in a reply to a visitor post. He's so very lucky that his show ended up on the only broadcast network that doesn't really care about ratings.

 

[calliope1975]

1 hour ago, dtissagirl said:

Just yesterday I saw some screengrab of Steve replying to a rant on Facebook and this was his answer again -- the "we're only halfway through the season" excuse. "You gave to be patient" "It'll all make sense once the season is over"... Sorry, none of those answers work anymore. It's like he's replying from 2005.
 

I agree completely. Here's a 23 course meal. I know we're almost half way through and the food has been poorly presented, in some cases expired, and there have been leftovers from 3 weeks ago, but just hang in there, it's going to taste better. The food poisoning won't last forever.

Sorry, Steve, I understand you won't (and shouldn't) talk smack about your employers, but [insert Felicity's original head tilt of disbelief.]

[statsgirl]

I notice that SA completely side-stepped the question, which is "If the ratings go down for an episode, it was because people tuned in and then decided to turn the episode off, or because the previous episode sucked so badly fewer people tuned in?"

Seems like a simple enough question to me.

[kismet]

I don't think he mean to say "too bad" rudely. But somehow it feels very RUDE. It feels like he should have phrased it better.

[MaisyDaisy]

I actually cut him slack, remember when he came out in defence of Texans when they arrested the little Muslim boy because of his science experiment? It was totally tone deaf, and he got dragged majorly by people who didn't even watch the show. 

I see people bring it up as proof for what a horrible person he is when they want to hate on him for 'disrespecting' their fave female character (10 guesses who). However what's not shared as much is the fact that this amazing fan opened up a dialogue with him on social media, and it was this super respectful educational exchange that he was really open to, about what white privilege is, and why what he said offended so many people.

The end result was that he apologised, explained that as a middle class white man who only has a high school education, sometimes he misses the nuance in things, and he welcomed having it explained to him.

I think that you can get a real taste for who people are when they stuff up and the choices they make after that.

A couple weeks later KC culturally appropriated a Halloween costume, but just blocked people for pointing it out or trying to explain why it was offensive. 

Two very different ways of dealing with social media backlash.

[tv echo]

I think one media reviewer hit the nail on the head when she wrote the following in her 511 review (although I do know some comic book fans who were just fine with Oliver & Felicity being a couple on Arrow):

Quote

Arrow’s problem, in this instance, is that it wants to play both sides, to appease the comic book fans and the show fans who don’t read comics. The first half of the season failed one half of that fandom, the second half seems ready to fail the other half.

Five seasons in, it’s way too late to try to straddle the fence, Arrow. Pick a side. And pick fast, or there won’t be any fans left watching.

Edited February 4, 2017 by tv echo

[kismet]

I'm bitter that Big Belly Burger got brought back and was given to Wild Dog. Dear Arrow Writers, stop raining crap on my happy memories of Arrow, they are all I have left.

I've yet to watch this week's episode, but seeing that clip makes me sure to push it off a few more days.

[bijoux]

The one good thing about that scene was Oliver's horrified look. Goes along nicely with 4a when he liked to cook for friends and family. Other than that, I've got nothing. 

[ladylaw99]

@Kismet, if you do watch the ep make sure you have a pillow and blanket cause it could knock you out

[calliope1975]

I am cranky today and would like to maim both my co-irkers and outside people I have to work with today, so Arrow's latest spoiler shenanigans really make me wish there was something more drastic I could do to show my dislike other than turning the channel. I feel like burning something in effigy. I also feel that there's a large glass of wine in my future. 

[Chaser]

Take the large glass of wine to PaleyFest and then list your grievances in person.  

[calliope1975]

9 minutes ago, Chaser said:

Take the large glass of wine to PaleyFest and then list your grievances in person.  

[kismet]

14 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I am cranky today and would like to maim both my co-irkers and outside people I have to work with today, so Arrow's latest spoiler shenanigans really make me wish there was something more drastic I could do to show my dislike other than turning the channel. I feel like burning something in effigy. I also feel that there's a large glass of wine in my future. 

Posts like this make me happy that I've sworn off spoilers. Well you could always write a well worded letter to deliver to the CW. Or post to the Arrow social media outlets.

[Mellowyellow]

I kinda resent Felicity sometimes for making me watch this very stupid show! I woke up, saw you guys raging, started raging myself then I watched the new preview clip and she was just so cute and so charming so I will tune in to this steaming pile of turd of a show so I can see Felicity be charming for 2 minutes!

Why Felicity why must you do this to me??????!!!!!!

Edited February 7, 2017 by Mellowyellow

[tv echo]

19 hours ago, Chaser said:

Take the large glass of wine to PaleyFest and then list your grievances in person.  

Only if you're prepared for SA to say, "You can't always get what you want," and then have the audience laugh at you.

[tv echo]

How to Destroy a Popular Ship in 3 Easy Steps:

1. Develop the relationship between the hero and another character slowly over the course of four years, evolving from strangers to engaged couple.
2. Break up the couple in the most contrived, non-organic, stupid way possible, while simultaneously making the hero look like a giant asshole.
3. Write the next season as if their relationship never changed/happened during the previous four seasons. 

Edited February 8, 2017 by tv echo

[kismet]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

Knowing this show, next season they will be saying how it didnt go as they wanted and how the new season will be an improvement (as they've had the last 2 years)

From ratings thread ^

You're probably right. I totally see that happening. The must frustrating thing as you've pointed out, is that they have done the same thing for the past 2 years.

The way they write the season and the way they then rationalize all their errors really fascinate me sometimes. They have the ability to write a whole season of TV, plan it out the way they want, be comfortable with their chances of renewal (as they have been renewed early every year). And yet every season they drop the ball on planning and looking at the whole season or journey for their characters. I don't know if it is because they lack the macrovision or the microvision to write a successful season of TV. And sadly, I don't know how to fix it.

Bringing in new showrunners is risky. Critiquing MG & co has not seemed to get the results. The critique about s4 was pretty transparent and easy to understand. And yet they reset s5 in a way that didn't even address the issues and destroyed the few things people praised them on. They took a hammer to the repairs, when they really needed a scalpel.

I used to think how they wrote LL was an anomaly. That their struggle to write her in a universally appealing and successful way was a matter of casting or trying to balance too many things. Instead, I think its now more indicative of how they approach critiques and improvements. Every season they tried to rebuild LL, and by the end nothing that was good about the character remained and everything bad was really complicated and visible. They couldn't seem to identify the problems. And if they were able to identify the problems, they either over-corrected or completely missed the mark.

It's one of the reasons, I'm not really optimistic about s6 of Arrow. Because if the last 2 years have shown me anything, it is that the Arrow writers can't seem to get out of their own way when it comes to improving missteps. I really wish I had some confidence in their abilities to self-correct. But the evidence points that we may just have more of the same misguided attempts to fix whats not broken, while ripping up some decent tile and replacing it with moldy shag carpeting. Every house needs some repairs and with 5 seasons Arrow has shown some wear and tear, but there are better ways to repair it.

[kismet]

At that point in my West Wing Rewatch, where it reminded me of Arrow.

I have no evidence of this... but I think the writers got some of their inspiration from the West Wing to have Baby Sara named after Sara Lance. WW did a similar thing in s4 naming Toby's daughter Molly after a secret service agent that died protecting the President's daughter. I remembered having mixed feelings about it on Arrow, because I thought it tried to elevated SL/Dig's relationship out of nowhere. But as a gesture to honor a fallen hero, well it's very noble. And I came to appreciate that level of nobility, loyalty and sacrifice Diggle showed to Sara. It is how you demonstrate Legacy in a powerful and subtle way. Something the show has seemed to lose in subsequent seasons.

Heck they even used "mortal lock" in the same episode, of course its in a different way then when they used it for O/F. But I know the Arrow writers have talked about West Wing before inspiring them. And in my current WW marathon, I can see some points of inspiration WW provided for Arrow. Sadly, it also only goes to highlight Arrow has fallen from its origins and inspirations.

And now I'm bitter because not only has Arrow ruined Sara Diggle for me, they have now ruined this part of the West Wing for me. And I rather liked having really genuine unblemished love for a TV series. Now Arrow has blemished it a little and not even for their own show's plot. Seriously... I'm not sure I will get over them erasing Sara Diggle for a plot point on another TV series.
 

[Tazmania]

13 hours ago, kismet said:

At that point in my West Wing Rewatch, where it reminded me of Arrow.

I have no evidence of this... but I think the writers got some of their inspiration from the West Wing to have Baby Sara named after Sara Lance. WW did a similar thing in s4 naming Toby's daughter Molly after a secret service agent that died protecting the President's daughter. I remembered having mixed feelings about it on Arrow, because I thought it tried to elevated SL/Dig's relationship out of nowhere. But as a gesture to honor a fallen hero, well it's very noble. And I came to appreciate that level of nobility, loyalty and sacrifice Diggle showed to Sara. It is how you demonstrate Legacy in a powerful and subtle way. Something the show has seemed to lose in subsequent seasons.

Heck they even used "mortal lock" in the same episode, of course its in a different way then when they used it for O/F. But I know the Arrow writers have talked about West Wing before inspiring them. And in my current WW marathon, I can see some points of inspiration WW provided for Arrow. Sadly, it also only goes to highlight Arrow has fallen from its origins and inspirations.

And now I'm bitter because not only has Arrow ruined Sara Diggle for me, they have now ruined this part of the West Wing for me. And I rather liked having really genuine unblemished love for a TV series. Now Arrow has blemished it a little and not even for their own show's plot. Seriously... I'm not sure I will get over them erasing Sara Diggle for a plot point on another TV series.
 

While I appreciate your comment about honoring the fallen hero, I don't think most of the Arrow writers are smart enough to have even watched The West Wing ... Most writers would be in high school when the show aired and I dont think any of them are smart enough to make the choice to watch it as an adult. They probably watch OC, Smallville, and Gossip Girl for inspiration for Arrow. 

 

PS: For a show that is not seem to be doing well this season, the bitterness thread is not all that popular ... LOL 

Edited February 13, 2017 by Tazmania

[lemotomato]

3 hours ago, Tazmania said:

PS: For a show that is not seem to be doing well this season, the bitterness thread is not all that popular ... LOL 

That's because every thread is the bitterness thread now.

Edited February 13, 2017 by lemotomato

[Tazmania]

Just now, lemotomato said:

That's because every thread is the bitterness now.

Hahahaha ... now that you have pointed it out, yes. How I miss the good old days .... 

[kismet]

6 hours ago, Tazmania said:

While I appreciate your comment about honoring the fallen hero, I don't think most of the Arrow writers are smart enough to have even watched The West Wing ... Most writers would be in high school when the show aired and I dont think any of them are smart enough to make the choice to watch it as an adult. They probably watch OC, Smallville, and Gossip Girl for inspiration for Arrow. 

Well this article seemed to imply that MG watched WW, or at least referenced it.

http://comicbook.com/blog/2014/03/06/exclusive-arrow-producer-marc-guggenheim-comments-on-harley-quinn-rumors/

And he wrote a spec script for WW, when he was first starting out.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/arrow-creator-marc-guggenheim-touts-694372

And he referenced Willa Holland doing WW-esque scenes in s5.

http://ew.com/article/2016/10/04/arrow-season-5-spoilers/

And I can't find them, but I do believe when they discussed OQ the Mayor as an idea, they tossed WW around in interviews.

I don't think the WW inspiration translates to the screen, but I think they do use it. I never watched Smallville or GG, so can't speak to them. But I did watch the OC, and there is almost no overlap in storytelling process or storylines.

I don't know the ages of the writers, but I do think most of them are old enough to have watched WW, even if on reruns. Plus Aaron Sorkin is a wizard of writing, any aspiring screenwriter would be dumb to not watch a few of his episodes.

-

Honestly, I think the Arrow writers are intelligent. They generally seem well versed in interviews and social media. I just don't think they are as talented or skilled as they think they are. And they are definitely not as creative as they think. Like Arrow, the writers room consistently fails to live up to their potential. Their ideas are generally not where they run into problems, its in execution. And execution is a skills thing, not an intelligence thing. For me, this is only more frustrating because I hate seeing people/shows fail to live up to their potential.

[ladylaw99]

Makes me wonder what this show would be like if there were better writers and people who knew how to execute the story better.

[tv echo]

From the above-linked April 8. 2014 The Hollywood Reporter interview with MG (those were the days!)...

Quote

What can you tell us about the remainder of the season? 
The people craving more screen time for the core three [Oliver, Felicity and Diggle]. That’s coming in a big way. 

Edited February 13, 2017 by tv echo

[ladylaw99]

I will believe it when I see it.

[way2interested]

6 minutes ago, tv echo said:

From the above-linked April 8. 2014 The Hollywood Reporter interview with MG (those were the days!)...

Well, at least it came true then.

[DeadZeus]

Ok, what has Prometheus been doing the past few episodes? Twirling his thumbs?

This is why it's a bad idea to introduce the big bad in the first episode already IMO....

S1-S3 kept this for later in the season so it was more of a reveal and there werent any unexplainable AWOLS from the main villain like this season...
S4 did the same thing, DD in the first episode so u know he's not gonna get taken down until the season finale. But atleast he appeared in the majority of episodes
S5 however... Prometheus is introduced in the first episodes and rarely appears.. Making almost every episode a filler... Doesn't look like he'll be in this weeks episode either...
If they kept his reveal for later it wouldn't be as bad but i rly don't understand why they suddenly have to reveal the big bad in the first episode already resulting in so many filler episodes and barely any mention of him for multipe episodes...

[statsgirl]

It's super weird that he made this big move in 5x09 when he had Oliver kill Billy, and then he disappears for 3 (probably 4 or more) episodes while the show does housekeeping to bring in Dinah and get Diggle out of jail.

[apinknightmare]

He has to rest up for all the havoc he's gonna be wreaking in May.

[Kymmi]

It's really sad that it's Wednesday and I've been stalking the Spoilers thread all week in hopes that it would give me a reason to watch tonight.  Nope.  When is my show coming back?  

[kismet]

6 hours ago, Kymmi said:

It's really sad that it's Wednesday and I've been stalking the Spoilers thread all week in hopes that it would give me a reason to watch tonight.  Nope.  When is my show coming back?  

Well I don't stalk spoilers anymore, I've actually sworn off spoilers until my show comes back.

For me, it's figuring out if I stop my West Wing rewatching project, or watch Arrow just to get the plot points checked off. Seriously, there used to be a time my viewing would rotate around Weds. Looking eagerly to what would happen. Now it feels like a chore. I'm 2 or 3 episodes down, feel like if I let it go one more week that might be the precipice for me.

[Belinea]

It really does surprise me at times how much people seem to love aspects of the show where I go 'Huh'. I just read that someone said that tonight they finally got the 'Ollie' from the comics and with Dinah and John, they could be this awesome trio. All that is missing is the goatee. 

It does make me wonder if people genuinely like the show this season and I just don't get it or they like the show because they think they are finally getting the show they want and therefore love it all the more even when it is not as great.

[Featherhat]

5 hours ago, Belinea said:

It really does surprise me at times how much people seem to love aspects of the show where I go 'Huh'. I just read that someone said that tonight they finally got the 'Ollie' from the comics and with Dinah and John, they could be this awesome trio. All that is missing is the goatee. 

It does make me wonder if people genuinely like the show this season and I just don't get it or they like the show because they think they are finally getting the show they want and therefore love it all the more even when it is not as great.

I think some people have genuinely enjoyed the season because they like the "mess of masks" and little romance etc better than previous seasons. Some probably don't like it as much as they claim but still prefer it over S4, others have started completely trashing 5b because they've realised they aren't getting LL back and don't like Tinah, others love her because of her name or eye candy, others like her "because at least she's not Felicity" etc. People saying this is their favourite season of Arrow do sometimes make me wonder why they watched the other 4 years though.

I haven't seen the quote but I might hazard a guess that some people advocating the "Ollie"/Tinah/Diggle line up would be people who ideally want Felicity to be killed off or have 2 lines and episode. Tinah is still ok (so far) because she's badass,  a bit sultry and currently "knows her place" whereas Felicity is still trying to steal Oliver's show or his manhood or whatever because she is doing things without running everything in her life by him, though when they did spend time together last season that was apparently the worst thing ever. Diggle of course is allowed to critique Oliver more because he's a guy and barely in the show now.

Wow that was bitter wasn't it. YMMV on all of it.

[theOAfc]

16 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

I think some people have genuinely enjoyed the season because they like the "mess of masks" and little romance etc better than previous seasons. Some probably don't like it as much as they claim but still prefer it over S4, others have started completely trashing 5b because they've realised they aren't getting LL back and don't like Tinah, others love her because of her name or eye candy, others like her "because at least she's not Felicity" etc. People saying this is their favourite season of Arrow do sometimes make me wonder why they watched the other 4 years though.

I haven't seen the quote but I might hazard a guess that some people advocating the "Ollie"/Tinah/Diggle line up would be people who ideally want Felicity to be killed off or have 2 lines and episode. Tinah is still ok (so far) because she's badass,  a bit sultry and currently "knows her place" whereas Felicity is still trying to steal Oliver's show or his manhood or whatever because she is doing things without running everything in her life by him, though when they did spend time together last season that was apparently the worst thing ever. Diggle of course is allowed to critique Oliver more because he's a guy and barely in the show now.

Wow that was bitter wasn't it. YMMV on all of it.

 I think this describes things perfectly. That's pretty much what I perceive based on the Internet opinions. 

[Mellowyellow]

I adopt the Us vs Them attitude when it comes to Felicity.

Now if you good people who are on social media a lot could tell me who many there are of Us and how many there are of Them?

Who has the bigger numbers?

[Midnight Lullaby]

Well I could take a wild guess based on all the times she trended during the episode and the fact that she is the one that makes them sell more merchandise.

[insomniadreams88]

You know what's really bothering me right now? Tinah has been in Star City all of what, a couple of weeks? - including a trip to Russia - and got a job. Rene now has a job. Oliver, who's so, so stupid this season, is mayor (and not a good one).

And Felicity and Curtis, the smartest characters on the show, are ... unemployed? And the show has only addressed that maybe twice this season? When Curtis said he quit after Felicity was fired and that awful cover story for Paul. 

[Tazmania]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

I adopt the Us vs Them attitude when it comes to Felicity.

Now if you good people who are on social media a lot could tell me who many there are of Us and how many there are of Them?

Who has the bigger numbers?

Definitely more us than them. She is the only one who had trended multiple times in S5 

[Mellowyellow]

Just now, Tazmania said:

Definitely more us than them. She is the only one who had trended multiple times in S5 

Yay for us!!!!

I'll take pleasure in either Olicity reuniting and they give Felicity more airtime or they can continue the Oliver/Dinah/WD shit show and watch the ratings free fall when Felicity fans give up once and for all. 

[Featherhat]

Taking into account non scientific data such as trending, general fandom presence, cons etc I think people who like Felicity generally outweigh those who do not. That doesn't mean they stop watching if there is no Olicity (although some do) or consider themselves "Stans" but I think in general more people seem to like her rather than dislike her and certainly outnumber the people who call her "Felishitty" for example. The network has market data on all their regular actors and generally knows who's popular (not that that always translates into action on anything). Despite "ONLY DLL can be BC!" KC has been back for all of 2 episodes so far (one of which was the 100th which is almost a rite of passage if possible) and she was replaced with *another* BC, nothing against KC but that really makes it seem they didn't want her back except to make them open to Tinah.

That said every forum/tumblr can be an echo chamber and everyone hears what they want to hear including me. There is a thread on IMDb and I've seen on other places asking why they can't get rid of Felicity because she is clearly one of the most hated characters on TV and every article they've read agrees. YMMV indeed.

[Mellowyellow]

4 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

They really are such stubborn children.

Will be interesting to see if people reach a point where they don't rage anymore.

They'll just go meh and move on without complaining. 

[MaisyDaisy]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Will be interesting to see if people reach a point where they don't rage anymore.

They'll just go meh and move on without complaining. 

I can feel my apathy rising.

Hearing that CP is still filming, combined with the sidelining of Olicity, Delicity and OTA, makes me wonder if I will want to watch again.

[Morrigan2575]

@MaisyDaisy you're talking spoilers in a non spoiler thread