Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[Ophanim]

The chemistry definitely can and always help in process. And it also make a easy job for the actors who have chemistry in abundance, and SA and EBR sure have that kind of chemistry! There is no denying and I am glad EPs recognize that and act up on it.

[Ophanim]

7 minutes ago, MaisyDaisy said:

 

SA and KC were like two negative charges that need a positive to work. 

I like this description. 

There is always some charismatic actors you love to watch onscreen and they have instant chemistry with anybody (for me, that actor is Ian McShane and I can't wait to watch American Gods, great book btw!)

[LeighAn]

I don't know Felicity and Billy sucked balls pretty badly and were forced and try hard. So I don't know that Emily has chemistry with everyone. I also thought her and Cooper didn't sparkle.

[manbearpig]

5 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Arrow is not gonna go on for Arrow. The role of the lead is way too physical for SA to keep up. At best they had 2 more seasons. Its quite different from Flash and Supergirl. A show that they will milk for all that is worth will be the flash. 

I'm just thinking out loud, but do we think this is why we have seen Team Arrow really expand this season? If the producers or writers have more people around to put in action scenes they can give Amell a break every now and then and presumably get him to sign on for more seasons if he can get a reduced work load? (I know there's probably other factors like the writers just liking someone from the comics or DC suggesting that they bring in a character because they're launching a new comic or movie or show or whatever, but...yeah). 

[way2interested]

Just now, manbearpig said:

I'm just thinking out loud, but do we think this is why we have seen Team Arrow really expand this season? If the producers or writers have more people around to put in action scenes they can give Amell a break every now and then and presumably get him to sign on for more seasons if he can get a reduced work load? (I know there's probably other factors like the writers just liking someone from the comics or DC suggesting that they bring in a character because they're launching a new comic or movie or show or whatever, but...yeah). 

Oh I think that's partially it. Even normal shows do that going into their later seasons, so Arrow isn't too different in that case. Although it is weird because I think the screentime average for SA actually went up comparing 4a to 5a IIRC.

[dtissagirl]

7 minutes ago, manbearpig said:

I'm just thinking out loud, but do we think this is why we have seen Team Arrow really expand this season? If the producers or writers have more people around to put in action scenes they can give Amell a break every now and then and presumably get him to sign on for more seasons if he can get a reduced work load? (I know there's probably other factors like the writers just liking someone from the comics or DC suggesting that they bring in a character because they're launching a new comic or movie or show or whatever, but...yeah). 

I don't think it was even action-scene related -- one of the reasons there's new people IS to give Amell a break, period. He mentioned on Facebook rearranging his shooting schedule as to not work Mondays, even. That means someone else gotta shoot on Mondays, and this is Hollywood standard practice: hiring new regulars instead of giving more work to the old regulars.

It's the same thing that's happened to actor interviews -- you know why Echo and Wild Dog dude do promo now? Because you give more work to the newbies so the old regulars can stop doing it.

[LeighAn]

2 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I agree on the first two but I'd switch Susan with Helena instead..

Oliver Helena weren't bad but the actress was terrible

[Midnight Lullaby]

4 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Oliver Helena weren't bad but the actress was terrible

I didn't mind her but I was thinking only about the chemistry between the actors..at the beginning with Susan I thought Oliver was faking it because SA acted all wooden when she touched him but it seems it's only the chemistry, not the script LOL

[Starfish35]

I thought Oliver and Helena had good chemistry, but yeah, Jessica De Geow's acting made me cringe.  I have wondered though whether perhaps she was struggling with the accent (they should have let her use her natural accent) and maybe that was causing some issues.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Starfish35

[LeighAn]

Haha see for me because so much of Oliver and  Helena was based on sad emotional scenes and the actress was just so terrible at portraying emotions it took me out of the moment :p

That being said the morning after scene with Helena was probably the hottest most cinematic the shows done and I loved the Oliver showing off in the lair with Arrows montage. I wish we got more playful Oliver.

[ladylaw99]

I didn't mind Helena and Oliver.  Was the actress the best, no but she is not the worst I've seen.

[statsgirl]

6 hours ago, LeighAn said:

I don't know many shows that switched their established endgame OTP without their being some extenuating circumstances like one half leaving the show or BTS drama like with House (The actress playing Cuddy quitting/let go due to money disputes ) and Castle (the actor and actress supposedly feuding) or not being popular in the first place. Especially not in the fifth season of what may be a 7-8 season show tops.

BTS stuff.  Cuddy left because Lisa Edelstein refused to go back for the next season.  She even refused to go back for the final episode of the series so they got Sela Ward, who had played House's ex in s2 to play the Cuddy-equivalent role. (Even Jennifer Morrison, who was suddenly fired mid season 6 went back for the last episode.)

The situation was similar to KC's Laurel, that the actress thought her character should be the love of the male hero's life, except that Edelstein had the support of one of House's EPs so House/Cuddy actually happened for two seasons.  But unlike Oliver Queen, House never was a character to be happy in a relationship so when they finally put House and Cuddy together, is was a mess and the ratings reflected it.  Edelstein was so angry about how the relationship ended (House drove a car through Cuddy's window) that she refused to come back.

6 hours ago, CooperTV said:

And Castle ended with Castle and Beckett happily married with three kids.

 

6 hours ago, LeighAn said:

Yay I don't watch but I remember some bigbinternet hubbub about them doing something ship ruining online Was it divorce or something?

More BTS stuff

Nathan Fillion and Stana Katic has some insane on screen chemistry -- in fact creator Andrew Marlowe said the Cast/Beckett interactions was what sold it as a series -- but by season 5 there were rumblings that the actors didn't get on any more. In season 8 the new showrunners manufactured a split between Castle and Beckett (Beckett had to protect him and lied so they would separate yadda yadda) and viewers hated it.  ABC was toying with the idea of renewing the series for season 9 but said Beckett and the female character of Lanie. would be dropped if they did.  Fans went nuts, I don't remember any other items at TV Line with so many comments.  The producers shot two endings, one if the show was renewed (Beckett dies and Castle mugs his way through being a P.I. with his bros from NYPD) and another if it gets cancelled (happily ever after with the three kids promised by the guy from the future).  I suspect the fan anger was what tipped the scales and ABC probably saw the writing on the wall (basement ratings without Beckett) and cancelled the show so Castle and Beckett got their happily ever after.

5 hours ago, Lidach said:

A little digress: Felicity Smoak is very popular character, an industry and fans alike, WHY DC/WB/CW don't use that info? They don't like a money? Silly them! Because I walk through three EB Games stores until I finally found Funko Pop Felicity Smoak in Toronto (I visited my family there in May). The point is, I am grown person, never read comics (except some Fringe stuff and AOT manga), and I bought f*** doll of my favorite character, and even bought some Flash and Arrow comics where she appears. See pattern?  I would gofund FS comic just to read her adventures, so yes I really want that show "Felicity and Friends". No joke. 

And I have felling I am not only one...

I got my kid to go to the store and buy mine, including the comics, because I was embarrassed at buying one at my age. (The FS Funko Pop took forever to get to Toronto).

3 hours ago, LeighAn said:

I don't know Felicity and Billy sucked balls pretty badly and were forced and try hard. So I don't know that Emily has chemistry with everyone. I also thought her and Cooper didn't sparkle.

I don't think EBR and TR were ever able to give it a real chance since we were supposed to dislike Felicity/Malone.  (There wasn't even ever a portmanteau name, was there?)  I wonder what they could have been like it they could have taken the brakes off.

[Starfish35]

Quote

House never was a character to be happy in a relationship

Yeah, I didn't watch House very long, but that was not a character that was going to end up with a HEA.  I always kind of thought, if there was a show OTP, it was House/Wilson actually.   I think David Shore has denied that House and Wilson were based on Holmes and Watson, but I always kind of saw it that way anyway.

[EmeraldArcher]

7 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I got my kid to go to the store and buy mine, including the comics, because I was embarrassed at buying one at my age. (The FS Funko Pop took forever to get to Toronto).

@statsgirl, this struck me as so funny because I'm completely the opposite.  I've publicly embraced my fangirling like it's my banner, like I have no shame, like there is no shame.  I exclaim over the new Funko Pops in bookstores! I've discussed my love of fan fiction with colleagues who strove to convey interest without revealing how shocked they were.  I made my 21-year-old daughter go with me to pick up my pre-ordered FS from GameStop because I wanted her to see that it's OK to own one's interests.

I just miss all that.  I'm most bitter that the really fun part of being an Arrow fangirl is dead for me now.  I can't seem to get it back.

[statsgirl]

31 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah, I didn't watch House very long, but that was not a character that was going to end up with a HEA.  I always kind of thought, if there was a show OTP, it was House/Wilson actually.   I think David Shore has denied that House and Wilson were based on Holmes and Watson, but I always kind of saw it that way anyway.

Shore has been open about House being based on Holmes (House ... Ho(l)mes.... yes, we get it) and yeah, Wilson is a lot like Watson, sacrificing his own personal relationships for the Great Detective.

I think the show went from being 'great' for 'yeah, okay' when Bryan Singer left. Singer kept David Shore from indulging in excesses and directions he shouldn't go in but he left mid-season 3 and Katie Jacobs took on co-showrunning (you can actually see the episode the tone of the show changes in) and she and Lisa Edelstein were big House/Cuddy OTP fans.

22 minutes ago, EmeraldArcher said:

I just miss all that.  I'm most bitter that the really fun part of being an Arrow fangirl is dead for me now.  I can't seem to get it back.

It's still the one show I'm really into although it really isn't as much fun anymore.  I still hope the fun can come back, it depends if the last 18 episodes were a blip or the way of the future.

It can either be the piece of grit that the oyster uses to make a pearl, or the thing that blows everything up, like Castle and Beckett separating or Bryan Singer leaving House.  My fingers are crossed.

[Starfish35]

Quote

Shore has been open about House being based on Holmes (House ... Ho(l)mes.... yes, we get it) and yeah, Wilson is a lot like Watson, sacrificing his own personal relationships for the Great Detective.

Ah ok thanks. I thought I'd read something years ago where he denied it (maybe I'm thinking of a different show? *confused*), but yeah, the parallels were so obvious that it was hard to see how it could not be.

[thegirlsleuth]

13 hours ago, LeighAn said:

How is any of the scenes in season 5 similar to Laurivers demise in season 2-3? I'm genuinely asking? 

I feel like I went pretty detailed but explain to me how Olicity looks even close.

There was three big death knells to Lauriver.

The conversation at the end of 2x01 where they both talk about how they can never go back.

The conversation in 2x14 where Laurel accuse Oliver of ruining her life and Oliver basically tells her that he's done with her and offers her money to buy another drink - in the midst of her alcoholism story line.

And 3x14 where Laurel tells Oliver she can't remember a time where she ever loved him.

I don't know that we've seen them yet, and I certainly don't expect to see those "I hate you forever" scenes that we got for Oliver and Laurel, but I am curious if there is going to be an Oliver/Felicity either in 5.10 or the next few episodes in which Felicity tells Oliver she doesn't blame him for Billy's death, but she can't forget, and how they can never go back to how they were before.  I'm not definite that it will happen, but I think its possible,especially when someone made mention how she ends up mourning for Billy, for herself, and for Oliver.  I feel like they've put Felicity on an island even more distant than Palmer Island in season three, and she and Oliver are having no real interactions, which to me does mimic Oliver and Laurel in season 2/3.

Edited January 13, 2017 by thegirlsleuth
"don't expect to see". Big difference

[LeighAn]

Is she distant from Oliver though? They ended season 4 with Felicity saying "You think Id left too-not a chance" and the two of them looking over the trashed remains of the bunker with a hopeful nod music. Then we open up the season with them fighting the good fight and rebuilding Team Arrow together as 'mum and dad' type roles and going into 5B we have Stephen say Oliver and Felicity storylines we parrallel one another suggesting their storylines will intertwine. 

Romantically yes Oliver and Felicity are isolated from one another because they are broken up, but there is still a partnership an emotional connection Oliver and Felicity have that Lauriver did not because the writers didnt want them to have because they were writing away from them. I dont see the evidence they are writing away from Olicity when they are using words like mortal lock and having admittedly bone throwy hang in there scenes like the 5x09 flash back and the 100th memory flash back. Even Oliver opening up to her in 5x02.

Could they have something more harsher and reeking of ship killing in the same version as Lauriver in 2 and 3 that we are just not privy too yet ? but my argument was if Lauriver is an example of what ship killing on this show looks like then Olicity has yet to sing the same tune imo. And these Arrow writers are so consistent in their repetitiveness that I figure if they were killing Olicity theyd do it pretty much similar if not verbatim the same way.

But I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens in 5B.

[kismet]

7 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Nathan Fillion and Stana Katic has some insane on screen chemistry -- in fact creator Andrew Marlowe said the Cast/Beckett interactions was what sold it as a series -- but by season 5 there were rumblings that the actors didn't get on any more. In season 8 the new showrunners manufactured a split between Castle and Beckett (Beckett had to protect him and lied so they would separate yadda yadda) and viewers hated it.

Agree. Those 2 had chemistry that transcended script and BTS drama. I never would have known they had issues with each other BTS when they shared scenes. The whole manufactured split, I think really did hurt the show. And then the show dropping 2 female leads, definitely rubbed fans the wrong way. I loved that show, but it was getting old. There are only so many plots you can do, and I always respected that they did try to make really unusual and unique crimes to solve. But you could tell they were hitting diminishing returns. I would have loved to see at least one more half season, just to have a proper good-bye. But the new showrunners basically threw kerosene on the show, so it was only a matter of time before someone lit a match and blew it up.

I think Arrow is different. I don't think it relies on the chemistry of its actors to sell its story (which IMO is not a good thing). In fact, it has gone out of its way in s5 & even parts of s3 to write against the chemistry of SA/EBR. I don't think it factors chemistry into its scripts, which is a detriment to the storytelling. I believe the Arrow writers room has a lot of egotistical & over-confident writers that think their scripts are literary masterpieces that transcend needing chemistry (which they are not). TV is a visual medium so how the actors relate to each other in their physical space which is a lot about chemistry is why some shows are successful when they shouldn't be and some are failures when they shouldn't be on paper.

I don't think Arrow realizes the gold mine it had with some of the castings. SA/EBR/DR have amazing chemistry. That is why people love OTA. It's not about the scripts or the plots the trio went through together. It's because when those 3 share a scene it's magical. You can replicate the plot adventures, but substituting in the newbies for the same effect is futile. Especially the duds of newbies they cast. The only one that has chemistry with anyone is Wild Dog and that is because he hates everybody and rubs everyone the wrong way, so yeah not all chemistry is good. WH & KC can have chemistry with people, but its finding the right matches, so either find them or write to those actors strengths. PB has proven to have chemistry with everyone and even inanimate objects, which is why despite year after year of crappy SL & scripts for his character, he is still one of my favs. Because he lights up the screen when he is on. JB is a cautionary tale. I think he has abundance of chemistry onscreen, but as a result the writers have mangled script after script to fit him into the plot. When really as much as I love watching JB be MM, there is a limit to how much you can bend the story to fit him in. 

But I can totally understand why the writers are so hesitant to rely on or write to chemistry. For them its job security. If people start responding to the chemistry more than the scripts, they could be out of a job. They want to prove that their skills are indispensable to the show, not the actors. It's a rough and tumble world. I just wish they found a happier medium and incorporated some of the natural chemistries rather than forcing some interactions. There is that sweet spot where amazing scripts are enhanced by amazing chemistry and we have stellar TV. Arrow has hit that sweet spot, but why they don't aim for it all the time is what bitters me about the show.

[statsgirl]

I think the Arrow writers rely on the SA/EBR chemistry too much  -- they've been writing against Olicity this season and trusting that SA and EBR's chemistry will keep the ship going anyway.  They're right to some extent but the anti-Olicity writing has been too much now.

3 hours ago, thegirlsleuth said:

I don't know that we've seen them yet, and I certainly don't expect to see those "I hate you forever" scenes that we got for Oliver and Laurel, but I am curious if there is going to be an Oliver/Felicity either in 5.10 or the next few episodes in which Felicity tells Oliver she doesn't blame him for Billy's death, but she can't forget, and how they can never go back to how they were before.  I'm not definite that it will happen, but I think its possible,especially when someone made mention how she ends up mourning for Billy, for herself, and for Oliver.  I feel like they've put Felicity on an island even more distant than Palmer Island in season three, and she and Oliver are having no real interactions, which to me does mimic Oliver and Laurel in season 2/3.

Wendy Mericle was careful in that wording. The obvious would have been to say that Felicity mourned for Billy, or mourned for Billy and herself. But she also put Oliver in there. tying Felicity and her feelings firmly to Oliver again.  Yeah, there's not much on screen these days but the EPs are still pushing Olicity when they're not pushing the temp LIs.

[Starfish35]

10 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I was pretty happy with 4x18 personally.

I actually wasn't.  I mean, yes, Laurel was my vote to be in the grave.  But I really hated the way they did it.  

[bijoux]

Plus the stupidest trial on this entire show. Including Laurel working on the case against Moira.

[Midnight Lullaby]

I was happy when I saw the pics on twitter a while before the episode aired. It was a hilarious day. The episode was pretty bad instead and the death looked ridiculous.

[Angel12d]

16 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I actually wasn't.  I mean, yes, Laurel was my vote to be in the grave.  But I really hated the way they did it.  

Same. Never been a fan of Laurel but the way they killed her off was awful. They could've at least sent her out fighting. And then the deathbed scene = BAD. It just got worse from there in 419 with all the terrible retconning of O/L's relationship post-Tommy's death. What a couple of assholes they were together.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Angel12d

[insomniadreams88]

I think I was happier that they finally caught up to the grave scene than I was to see it played out on screen. That's the problem with flashforwards - it becomes a matter of just waiting to get to that point.

Laurel was never on the list of characters I liked, but she deserved better than that death. And the O/L mess in those two episodes will always be awful. It could have been fixed too, if they had just focused on Laurel's relationship with her father. Fine, throw O/L fans something if they really wanted to, but what they did? The retconning and just making me feel bad for Tommy when Laurel was just killed? Not the best idea.

[Starfish35]

I'm trying to remember which episode was the last one I really liked.  I can't remember.  A lot of them had stuff I did and stuff I didn't.  Like, there was a lot of 4A that was good, but then you also had the disaster that was Laurel bringing Sara back from the dead, and BamBam's directing debut, and Dig's brother being resurrected (which I was NOT a fan of).  And the dull as dirt flashbacks.  :/

[Starfish35]

The way they did Laurel's death was just a huge mess.  She should have died heroically, dying in battle, or sacrificing herself to save someone else.  But having her being killed while helpless - that was wrong.  And then the deathbed that wasn't a death bed scene because she didn't know she was dying....so so so stupid.  And then the following episode added insult to injury by retconning what happened between Oliver and Laurel after Tommy's death, doing Laurel absolutely no favors.  Why not have each of the team remembering her, or focus on Quentin's memories of her?  That would have been far more appropriate than what they did.  It was just such a mess.  Ugh.

[AyChihuahua]

25 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I'm trying to remember which episode was the last one I really liked.  I can't remember.  A lot of them had stuff I did and stuff I didn't.  Like, there was a lot of 4A that was good, but then you also had the disaster that was Laurel bringing Sara back from the dead, and BamBam's directing debut, and Dig's brother being resurrected (which I was NOT a fan of).  And the dull as dirt flashbacks.  :/

I really liked 420. The magic chick was cool, and I enjoyed Digg/Lyla/Baby Sara kicking DD's ass. Prob my top three of S4 (along with the premier and the one with the guy who ripped his skin off and threw it as knives).

[Starfish35]

10 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

I really liked 420. The magic chick was cool, and I enjoyed Digg/Lyla/Baby Sara kicking DD's ass. Prob my top three of S4 (along with the premier and the one with the guy who ripped his skin off and threw it as knives).

I don't really remember that one that well.  Was that the one where Dig went out the back of the trailer with baby Sara strapped on his back?

The premiere was good.  Umm.  409 was good if you ignore BMD.  406...I think I liked that one.  And I think I liked the one where Roy came back - I miss Roy. 

Edited January 17, 2017 by Starfish35

[AyChihuahua]

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

I don't really remember that one that well.  Was that the one where Dig went out the back of the trailer with baby Sara strapped on his back?

Yes! And it had the magic lady with the GORGEOUS hair.

[Starfish35]

Just now, AyChihuahua said:

Yes! And it had the magic lady with the GORGEOUS hair.

Ah.  Ok yeah.  I really liked that.  Well, anything with family Diggle tends to make me happy.  Except long dead brothers reappearing. :(

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, AyChihuahua said:

I really liked 420. The magic chick was cool, and I enjoyed Digg/Lyla/Baby Sara kicking DD's ass. Prob my top three of S4 (along with the premier and the one with the guy who ripped his skin off and threw it as knives).

 

49 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

Yes! And it had the magic lady with the GORGEOUS hair.

 

47 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Ah.  Ok yeah.  I really liked that.  Well, anything with family Diggle tends to make me happy.  Except long dead brothers reappearing. :(

Lady Fortune was her name!

[MaisyDaisy]

Oh yeah, those Lauriver flashbacks made them both look like total arseholes, not just to Tommy.

If that all happened then Oliver running off and not being able to be in a relationship with Laurel after they both heavily screwed over Tommy, only to return and get into a relationship with Sara, coming to Laurels house and heart eyeing Sara right in front of her, makes him look awful.

The fact that Oliver yet again chose her sister over her, but she still thinks he was the love of her life? 

That deathbed scene and the flashbacks just further eroded both Laurel and Oliver for me.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I really can't add anything to what most are saying, except to say (and I think I've said it before, though I can't recall if it was here, or in the Mind Your Surroundings thread, but I do empathize with you, because I've been there. With Smallville. And I'm still a bitter, bitter wench, because I we were teased so relentlessly with Clark and Chloe, and even if the writing tried to tell us no, no, it's Lana! The Pink Pestilence! or Fake!Lois!, Tom and Allison were tell us me different! (As @BkWurm1 can back me up on!)

Then they shit up all on Chloe, because near the end, lightswitching and Comics! Expecting me to ignore past six years of characterization, and this "Lois" didn't earn her iconic status.

Ahem

At least, those that love Oliver and Felicity, got to see them be happy and in love for a bit. Yeah, it's fucked up right now. Even I'm now sure how they'll get back together, if/when they do. But I do feel your pain.

So I'm there with you in spirit, if you will.  And I can't hate on Smallville, because after just finishing my annual rewatch, it still, for the most part, stands up, if I just ignore seasons 8-10! And I actually find I prefer some of its storylines to Arrow and Flash; AND it really paved the way for Berlanti and company.

And well, Tom's purtiness, those cheek bones! Those EYES!!!!

Ahem. Sorry. Carry on.

Edited January 18, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[ladylaw99]

I think that is why I am so bitter. Oliver and Felicity worked.  Their relationship for me was a bonus. I was actually wondering if the writers would have enough guts to go there with them.  My biggest fear was if these writers did go there I was worried that they would feel the need to separate them and would end up ruining their friendship, which was so much more important to me. There was never unnecessary  drama between OTA and then later on with Olicity until the writers could not think of a way to end their relationship.

Now my worst fear has come true. The writers not only ruined a good relationship for Oliver but more importantly for me they ruined a great friendship. They are like two strangers pretending to be friends. I don't recognize their characters sometimes. As much as I love Felicity, even she has done questionable things.  If I knew that this would have been the outcome, I would have preferred Oliver and Felicity never being in a romantic  relationship. 

I am bitter that the show is coming back next week and I am not even excited. I am bitter that the spoilers are giving me nothing to look forward too. I am bitter that my OTA seems non-existing.

Why I can't give up on this show is beyond me. Felicity's arc is what I am banking on, I could forgive alot if the writers do it just.

[Starfish35]

23 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I swear I've been waiting for the "real" Arrow to come back since around 4-15.  

Yeah I'm not sure but I think I might have seen a shark hanging around there when Felicity got up from her wheelchair and walked out the door. 

Edited January 18, 2017 by Starfish35

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Yeah I'm not sure but I think I might have seen a shark hanging around there when Felicity got from her wheelchair and walked out the door. 

That moment really made me shed some tears. 

Of laughter. 

[Chaser]

I thought Ras was the epitome of second hand embarrassment but I was so wrong .

[apinknightmare]

It's like...the head of the LoA being a major stockholder in Pier 1 was amusing, but the magic walking was next level. 

[Sunshine]

When she took off the ring the timeline Barry disrupted in 4.08 was healed.  Cue miraculous spine/leg healing.  Dramatically walk away.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it. LOL!

Edited January 18, 2017 by Sunshine

[statsgirl]

I didn't mind the walking technology* so much as Ra's or BMD or Barry screwing things up with Flashpoint because I wanted Felicity to walk again.  I can forgive a lot of bad plotting if it gives me what I want.  More Susan manipulating Oliver, more Wild Dong, more WTH, I don't want.

*I'll accept in tech before I'll accept magic.

Edited January 18, 2017 by statsgirl

[Chaser]

SA and EBR looked like they didn't even know how to response. 

[insomniadreams88]

I feel like the only reason they had Felicity walk in that moment was because they didn't want her still in a wheelchair while they had everyone checking to see how Oliver was doing post-breakup and all Felicity got the pistachio line from Donna. It was just awful all around. 

ETA: I still don't get the timeline of 414/415. Curtis gives Felicity the chip at the engagement party/William is kidnapped in 414. 415 opens with Felicity in PT already. Did she have the surgery the night of the party? 

Edited January 18, 2017 by insomniadreams88

[apinknightmare]

I wouldn't have minded any of the elements of the scene on their own I don't think. But the magical leg twitching, the standing up, and the shuffling out the door combined together? I could not.

[Chaser]

It was the shuffling that did me in....LOL

[apinknightmare]

Same. I still laugh thinking about it.

[MaisyDaisy]

I was giggling over the logistics of it;

"oh....she totally just left her chair, hopefully it's not rented"

"I bet she wishes she has worn flats"

"I hope there's no stairs in the building"

"won't she get tired after not using all those muscles for so long"

I pictured Oliver running after with the chair yelling "hey don't forget this, you won't get your deposit back just leaving it" (I know she was rich and probably brought it outright)

Aside from being an on the nose depiction of a physical disability, it was cheesy AF, and just compounded all the cheap drama that had just been played out over the last few episodes.

Edited January 18, 2017 by MaisyDaisy

[calliope1975]

I could just picture the chip failing a minute after she walked out the door, and then she's stuck...sitting there. 

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I really can't add anything to what most are saying, except to say (and I think I've said it before, though I can't recall if it was here, or in the Mind Your Surroundings thread, but I do empathize with you, because I've be,en there. With Smallville. And I'm still a bitter, bitter wench, because I we were teased so relentlessly with Clark and Chloe, and even if the writing tried to tell us no, no, it's Lana! The Pink Pestilence! or Fake!Lois!, Tom and Allison were tell us me different! (As @BkWurm1 can back me up on!)

Then they shit up all on Chloe, because near the end, lightswitching and Comics! Expecting me to ignore past six years of characterization, and this "Lois" didn't earn her iconic status.

Ahem

At least, those that love Oliver and Felicity, got to see them be happy and in love for a bit. Yeah, it's fucked up right now. Even I'm now sure how they'll get back together, if/when they do. But I do feel your pain.

So I'm there with you in spirit, if you will.  And I can't hate on Smallville, because after just finishing my annual rewatch, it still, for the most part, stands up, if I just ignore seasons 8-10! And I actually find I prefer some of its storylines to Arrow and Flash; AND it really paved the way for Berlanti and company.

And well, Tom's purtiness, those cheek bones! Those EYES!!!!

Ahem. Sorry. Carry on.

Smallville was worse than anything that Arrow has thrown so far since Smallville actively played the different factions against each other and seeded the series with reasons for each group to hold on and think the show was going their way.  I swear that even in the last two episodes of the entire season they were still ship baiting.  

I've never been joking about having Post Traumatic Smallville disorder.  Head games of the highest order.  It's kind of a miracle that I watched Arrow in the first place.  

Still, I'm not ready to write off Arrow or Olicity yet.  It sucks right now, but I'm still hopeful that this too shall pass.  

[Starfish35]

I've been meaning to go watch those last four seasons, since it's on Hulu now.  I haven't done it yet because I keep wondering whether I should start from the beginning again, since it's been so long and I'm sure there's a lot I've forgotten.  But I just can't get up the enthusiasm.

Anyone interested in doing a rewatch? :D

Edited January 18, 2017 by Starfish35