Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[jay741982]

I'm bitter that in Her final season, still way more screen time for Rene and Dinah than Felicity has been given and this show doubles down on stuff that doesnt work 

[Mellowyellow]

I can see EBR not returning. Why on earth would you return to the same badly written garbage to launch a new spin off when you've put that chapter behind you already.

They'd probably just misuse her if she did return. 

I initially had a tiny bit of hope that it'll be less garbage since Emily is leaving and maybe they'll write for her. Nope, same shit, different week. 

I refuse to be positive anymore and try to justify the few pathetic scenes they throw my way with my favourite character. 

[Mellowyellow]

I loved S3 so much more than the lauded S2. S2 had good stuff like Barry but it was too much the Sara show I found chunks of it unwatchable.

S3 Olicity was messy but they were both in the thick of things together and boy could he pine. And they had cute scenes even though she was with Ray unlike last ep where they stand next to each other. 

Honestly if I didn't see photos of EBR hooked up to an IV after partying with SA I'd think they were feuding the pathetic way Olicity are written considering she's got 2 eps left. 

[Mellowyellow]

How I feel about my chances at more Olicity scenes 

[Mellowyellow]

Whoa it is more dead in here that S5 after Olicity blew up. Actually we still cared, we were just stressed.

I cannot understand what these writers are thinking. Were they hoping for a new fanbase of Emiko, Rene and Dinah and it failed spectacularly?

Cuz as much as fans have disagreed on this show I don't see many people on either side being pleased with the latest eps.

I am genuinely boggled by these choices! Or is it a case of the showrunner being "I am a genius and this is my genius vision" and sticking with it?

Her clamp on spoilers is soooo laughable now. There was not much to spoil. It was a pile of garbage! 

[ladylaw99]

3 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Whoa it is more dead in here that S5 after Olicity blew up. Actually we still cared, we were just stressed.

It is sad what this show has become.

[statsgirl]

3 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Her clamp on spoilers is soooo laughable now. There was not much to spoil. It was a pile of garbage! 

That's the irony, that it turned out that most of what she didn't want spoiled turned out to be "ugh, please say it isn't true" rather than stuff we got excited about.

[jay741982]

29 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

That's the irony, that it turned out that most of what she didn't want spoiled turned out to be "ugh, please say it isn't true" rather than stuff we got excited about.

Maybe she put The clamp down cause she figured people wouldnt be too excited about more More More Rene and Dinah

[Featherhat]

2 hours ago, jay741982 said:

Maybe she put The clamp down cause she figured people wouldnt be too excited about more More More Rene and Dinah

Heh, maybe. But they've known it was EBR's final season and only a short S8 for a while now. I could understand a lot of Dinah and Rene if they still thought Arrow might/ would go on with Oliver and maybe Emiko as a replacement.

As it is there's only a couple of parts of the story I'm interested in and I've pretty much resigned myself to not enough time and miserable ending so ehh.. on any spoiler policy it doesn't really matter. The fandom does seem quieter in general, not just here and the live ratings are dropping  ( yeah I know they don't really care at this stage) so there's no big build up to anything, even when there should be. There are a million ways to introduce Oliver's new sister who was predictable as soon as Thea left and they picked the worst bits out of several ways and stitched them together. It's especially annoying as they pulled the "bait and switch" villain in exactly the same way last season and it feels very rushed.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Featherhat

[kes0704]

It disappoints me that the show I used to rush home to watch feels like a hollow shell of what it used to be. 

There’s been a lot of plots and gotchas in the previous seasons that I didn’t particularly enjoy but the things I loved about the show always outweighed everything else. 

It’s completely flipped now and the things that are aggravating are outweighing the parts that I still like and the feeling of misery running through the show really isn’t enjoyable to me.  

[Genki]

EBR not coming back for S8, is actually hampering my ability to enjoy S7. I still haven't caught up with the latest episodes since hiatus. From what I can tell there's not much reason to at all. Given my location, I'm always playing catch-up it was easy to tell that the episodes since EBR's announcement were not what I would be interested in.

I need to know that there is potential for S8 to turn everything around at the end. I Honestly think I won't catch up unless I know that Felicity will be in the S8 especially the Finale. Otherwise the way they are treating Olicity make no sense.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'm not gonna hope, wait, whatever for EBR to come back in S8. Monday's episode is the last Arrow for me, then I'm finally done with this show. I might pop in here in the forum once in a while, though, just because I'm sure I'll miss the snark 😛

[Mellowyellow]

Honestly I have one foot out the door already. I had hoped to peep in on the forum but it's pretty dead so I think it'll be ghost town next season. 

I will miss the snark and the humour so much!

I think I'm more bitter at the show for killing all the enthusiasm that fandom previously had. A huge part of the fun was reading people's posts and even squabbling with others. Now everyone is like "meh" and the show drove us to this.

I'm curious about ratings so hopefully@Starfish35 will still be posting them for next season. 

@tv echo are you bowing out after next week?

[AudienceofOne]

It's only ten episodes! Let's do it! Let's swallow our bitterness and spit venom at it till the very end! 

[Mellowyellow]

27 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

It's only ten episodes! Let's do it! Let's swallow our bitterness and spit venom at it till the very end! 

Haha that only works if others participate or else I'll be the only crazy raving about Arrow when everyone else has checked out 😂

Seriously I think the show has driven many to the point where they don't really care to complain or comment anymore. 

[way2interested]

5 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Seriously I think the show has driven many to the point where they don't really care to complain or comment anymore. 

The fandom's done that for me way more than the show 😅

[AudienceofOne]

14 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Haha that only works if others participate or else I'll be the only crazy raving about Arrow when everyone else has checked out 😂

Seriously I think the show has driven many to the point where they don't really care to complain or comment anymore. 

I've honestly pretty well checked out too. I was going to drop it but then I realised how little was left. And you're right, I can't even be bothered ranting anymore. But I may as well finish. 

The fact is, this show hasn't been Arrow for a while but has been a succession of backdoor pilots for possible spinoffs. 

Edited May 12, 2019 by AudienceofOne

[tv echo]

14 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

@tv echo are you bowing out after next week?

I will not be as active in posting Arrow-related stuff next season. However, I'll probably still try to keep track of spoilers and news regarding EBR/Felicity. I'm especially curious as to what we learn at SDCC this summer. But if it looks like Felicity's gone for good, then I'm probably out as well.

In any event, I'll probably keep visiting this forum for awhile.

Edited May 12, 2019 by tv echo

[KillahBee007]

Full disclosure, I have not watched the finale and will eventually catch up. 

However, I will forever be bitter at all the wasted potential regarding OTA. Felicity Smoak. John Diggle. Completely wasted potential. 

In before the comments about how every character suffered because I’m not talking about them. I’m talking about the reason I stuck with this show as long as I did. OTA. Those core characters were wasted time and time again for barely formed characters.  That chemistry is rare and true to form, it was wasted. 

But guess what? More birds next season! LOL. 

Arrow ended for me tonight. Meh. 

[RS3]

On 8/15/2019 at 11:34 PM, Quark said:

Wow. Does it really bother you if men aren't interested in romance and prefer fight scenes?

Let's review the context, shall we? 

On 8/15/2019 at 8:42 AM, RS3 said:

I think it plays a part. I remember when [Beth] was announced as showrunner and the tweet that was immediately dig up by a certain fandom to invalidate her was about how she would write an entire episode of the olicity wedding. But I don't want to transfer all of the blame on the judgy opinion of boys who view romance as "icky" and fight scenes as "badass", whether it's arrow fans or higher ups. If the payoff is never as satisfying as the level of conflict, then you're robbing your audience. It's storytelling 101. 

No, it doesn't matter to me what your reasons are for watching a show. It bothers me when your preference is viewed as the Superior reason and used to call someone incompetent because they didn't think she could write "badass" because she's a woman who loved writing a romantic plot. Which is exactly what happened on twitter. 

[tv echo]

Right now, I don't think I'll be watching Arrow live this season. I just find the underlying premise for this final season incredibly depressing. Based on the end of S7, we know that Oliver has been forced to abandon his wife and newborn daughter to go on a mission for the Monitor in order to prepare for the upcoming Crisis in which he's fated to die. 

After suffering and saving the city (and the world) for seven seasons, Oliver's reward is... (if the flashforwards stay true) to never see his children grow up and to be physically separated from Felicity, the love of his life, for at least 20 years!

At this point, I think I'm still here out of curiosity, habit and the need for closure.

Regardless of what MG says, I still think Arrow would not have a S8 if TPTB didn't want to do COIE.

Edited September 22, 2019 by tv echo

[insomniadreams88]

I’m bitter about expecting to be bitter about the final season given how it was set up (and a bit of what we know about it). 

[statsgirl]

6 hours ago, tv echo said:

I just find the underlying premise for this final season incredibly depressing. Based on the end of S7, we know that Oliver has been forced to abandon his wife and newborn daughter to go on a mission for the Monitor in order to prepare for the upcoming Crisis in which he's fated to die. 

After suffering and saving the city (and the world) for seven seasons, Oliver's reward is... (if the flashforwards stay true) to never see his children grow up and to be physically separated from Felicity, the love of his life, for at least 20 years!

I agree. It's not just too depressing, it's also too unfair. Five years of hell, seven putting everyone else's happiness ahead of his own, and ending his life giving up every happiness he had finally achieved.

It also taints my enjoyment of The Flash and Supergirl.  I can't feel sorry for either Kara or Barry because Oliver is suffering so much more. And so is Felicity. Unless Oliver gets a good ending, I'm not going to care what happens to Barry or Kara. Not this season, or any other.

[tv echo]

I'm also bitter because TPTB's response could be that Oliver's reward is to become a multi-verse hero (the ultimate redemption) and legend as the Green Arrow. Of course, then, the rebuttal is that it's unlikely Barry and Kara will die, but The Flash and Supergirl still become legends as well. (This is all assuming the future doesn't change.)

Edited September 23, 2019 by tv echo

[GHScorpiosRule]

While I haven't participated as much in this forum as many of you, that's not to say that I prefer this show over the others. Because one, I've always been attached/had (still do in my romances as @BkWurm1 can attest) to tortured heroes. And in this universe, that's Oliver. I may have bitched and whined and complained (Unashamed) about stealing history/plots/villains from Batman because TPTB couldn't get the green light on Batman (Thanks be to TV GODS as it seems only Bruce Timm and company do a good job of telling a story in 22 minutes--See B:TAS, S:TAS, Justice League/Justice League Unlimited and the various straight to home DVDs), I still prefer this show over the others. And I for one, loathed the last season so much because there wasn't enough of Oliver/Green Arrow to satisfy me, or that he and Felicity were apart for so long, and to be separated for so long. I didn't like nor did, or do I care for the grown up children. SUE ME. This is Arrow (this includes John and Felicity). Not Arrow and Friends, or Arrow: The next generation. I don't give any figgedity FUCKS about Dong, Collagen Lips or Stutterbark.

And I still have YET to watch the last two episodes of season 7. And There is only ONE reason I'm tuning in to the crossover. 

[RS3]

Random thoughts about the premiere, specifically Diggle, because I don't want to be a debbie downer on the episode thread: 

1) After seeing evil Tommy once in the crossovers,  dark archer seemed like a been-there-done-that situation and not as shocking of a reveal, even without spoilers. Knowing that Colin's departure was a writer decision, I wonder if this wasn't just the writers telling you they've made a mistake killing him off too soon before he could become dark archer. Chase on the other hand was a little dull as GA. I much prefer him as a villain but that's because sassy line delivery is Josh's specialty. 

2) The show loves to forget Diggle is married when it's convenient. Choosing to travel across the multiverse and risk your life with your bff for god knows how long while your working wife has a child at home seems like it should have repercussions on their marriage alone. So a part of me empathizes with JJ because at least Oliver didn't have a choice. Yet last season, Diggle dropped Felicity (and Oliver) because of his JOB. Season 6 was also a characterization massacre. I used to be a die-hard for Diggle because he's my guy but also because he's a pillar character, just like Felicity. But it's frustrating that the writers keep molding their characters around the plot and/or actor availability til the bitter end. I guess his car scene with Oliver was cute...

[GHScorpiosRule]

Okay. So I FINALLY watched the last two episodes of last season last night, AFTER watching the premiere (don’t judge!) and just one word about the finale: BULLSHIT!!! Even knowing while watching last season, with the stupidass flash forwards, which I don’t give any  bluedilly figgedity FUCKS about, I HATE! HATEHATEHATE that Oliver and Felicity were separated for over 20 years and the ASSHATS couldn’t even let the viewers who love them, actually SEE Oliver? Nooooo. We see Felicity walking into some other universe or whatever, which again, makes no sense in light of what happens in Crisis. At least, from what I’ve read.🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

But this is still my favorite show out of all of them—warts and all.

And totally agree with all who said those were Emily and Stephen’s tears and their feelings knowing she was leaving the show. I won’t lie-I ended up 😭 myself.

[tv echo]

I'm actually not bitter about this, but I couldn't decide where else to post this...

It's ironic that Arrow, a show that some have criticized for too much fan service, is having a final season that is almost all fan service.

It's ironic that Arrow, the most grounded of all of the Arrowverse shows, is probably going to end up with the most fantastical ending.

Edited October 31, 2019 by tv echo

[insomniadreams88]

Once again bitter that Arrow seems to love isolating Felicity. Did it all the time when she was on-screen (I'm still extremely bitter about 509) and now actually has her isolated in a cabin, alone with Mia, for the next 20 years. 804 just reminded me of my bitterness.

[AudienceofOne]

2 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Once again bitter that Arrow seems to love isolating Felicity. Did it all the time when she was on-screen (I'm still extremely bitter about 509) and now actually has her isolated in a cabin, alone with Mia, for the next 20 years. 804 just reminded me of my bitterness.

I was about to join everybody in hate watching the last season but after this comment I might wait. 

[AudienceofOne]

On 5/12/2019 at 12:23 PM, AudienceofOne said:

 The fact is, this show hasn't been Arrow for a while but has been a succession of backdoor pilots for possible spinoffs. 

So apparently I wrote this in May and all I can say is that I was right and should have listened to me. 

If you listed the things people liked about Arrow then - apart from Oliver Queen being a toasted marshmallow of hard outer shell and sweet gooey centre - this season has literally none of them. Not a single thing. 

[tv echo]

I'm partly bitter about this final season, partly sad about Arrow ending, and partly hopeful that Arrow will end in a way that makes me happy (but also dreading it).

Meanwhile, The CW's press release about early renewals of all the other Arrowverse shows for the 2020-21 season only made me realize how little I care after Arrow ends. What am I going to do with my newly freed up time after that?

Edited January 8, 2020 by tv echo

[insomniadreams88]

I’m very, very bitter about the final crossover Arrow participates in. Especially the fact that it seems like everyone forgot about Oliver’s family — except for his one line as he was dying — and Felicity was relegated to being talked about like tech support.

Also, don’t even get me started on the Diggle/Laurel scene.

[tv echo]

In some insect species, the mother gives birth to her young and then is eaten by her children.

That's how I feel about Arrow and the crossovers. The originally grounded Arrow gave birth to multiple superpowered spinoffs. Those spinoffs then used, abused and consumed Arrow until there was nothing left.

I am now honestly dreading Arrow's series finale.

Edited January 15, 2020 by tv echo

[tv echo]

I agree...

Edited January 22, 2020 by tv echo

[AES13]

I'm bitter that my predominant feeling when thinking about the finale is relief to be finally done with this show and it's siblings.  I loved this show for the first 3 or so seasons but hated aspects of it for the next few years.  I was pleasantly surprised how much I enjoyed most of this season, but really hated the crossover.  Thankfully, I will be put out of my misery this week. Yay?

[shantown]

I feel ya, @AES13. The crossover really dampened my excitement for all the shows and overall my heart just hasn't been in it this year for the most part. Maybe it's just superhero overload? We were debating keeping our cable because we liked watching live and then posting/discussing right when the episodes ended but now I wouldn't mind catching up on episodes of all the shows later, if at all. Even Legends is bumming me out this year. Legends!

[AudienceofOne]

3 hours ago, AES13 said:

I'm bitter that my predominant feeling when thinking about the finale is relief to be finally done with this show and it's siblings.  I loved this show for the first 3 or so seasons but hated aspects of it for the next few years.  I was pleasantly surprised how much I enjoyed most of this season, but really hated the crossover.  Thankfully, I will be put out of my misery this week. Yay?

Yes and yes. I've been praying this will be cancelled for years so I can be free, finally. I dropped everything but Arrow a while ago and now I have been emancipated!

[scarynikki12]

This another part of my multi-thread Laurel dissertation.

One of the reasons Laurel was so frustrating is that she was never allowed to be the complicated character she actually was. We would get moments throughout the series but they were always explained away rather than incorporated into her character. She didn't like Tommy because she thought he was trying to buy her love and not because she was with him to get back at Oliver and was annoyed that he had actual feelings. She said some awful things to Quentin and Dinah in seasons 1 and 2 but that was because she was employing tough love and then drunk/high so no harm done. Her animosity towards Sara was completely earned and should have been a long term story but was wrapped up quickly because the decision was made to kill Sara. Nevermind that it would have made her rage and Single White Female story of season 3 that much more interesting. She wanted to be a vigilante but never thought about quitting her job, the risk she was taking with regard to her cases, or showing any signs of difficultly in managing the two.

One of the worst things Laurel did was put Sara in the Lazarus Pit. She wanted Sara resurrected, and that was all that mattered, so she ignored everyone telling her not to and then acted like the soulless monster who emerged was no big deal. That should have been a major crack in her relationships with everyone yet was forgotten the second Constantine restored Sara's soul.

The show never went deep on the complexity they set up for her. The line about letting the darkness in should have been a turning point for the character but was retconned a year later with Felicity's horrible line at Sara's expense. Why make it either or? Why not have the darkness be the start of Laurel letting go of her life plan and realizing that life and the people in it are complicated? I'm not suggesting they should have made her a villain but pretending she was a goody two shoes her whole life and then elevating her to sainthood when she died was a major disservice to what was set up. Laurel as written was extremely complicated: she had a terrible relationship with her sister long before having an legitimate reason that seemed to stem from being their parents favorite child (which she knew and enjoyed), she decided at a young age that one of her life goals was to become Mrs. Oliver Queen and purposefully turned a blind eye to who he really was, and she cared so deeply about her reputation that she; turned away from her plan of corporate law because she worried it was going to reflect poorly on her, she only accepted Tommy's help with CNRI because the continued refusals were starting affecting how her colleagues viewed her, her anger at Oliver cheating seemed to only be about the Gambit rather than all the other times and that was equal parts everyone knowing and it being with Sara who she viewed as beneath her. 

For me, few things annoy me more than a show that has a disconnect between the character they think they've written and the character they've actually presented. I loved the Gilmore Girls revival season because it was the only time they were aware that Rory is an awful person and wrote her accordingly. I loved season 5 of The Vampire Diaries because, again, there was an awareness that Elena wasn't the Compassion Queen but was instead a master manipulator and so much like the lesser than Katherine. They even had Katherine possess Elena's body for weeks before anyone realized what had happened. I am all in on that kind of storytelling. We got this for a little while when Black Siren first showed up but then they clearly got bored and went with instant redemption and glossing over her crimes and the character stopped being interesting. This show had so many opportunities to follow through and make Laurel one of the most interesting and complex characters on television and they squandered it over and over.

[Password]

I was in the middle of a season 1 binge, but I gave up when I got to the point where I was rewriting the story in my head. As a consequence I created a why I'm bitter list:

• The only consistent thing about Laurel was her inconsistency. For goodness sake let her be angry for 2 consecutive episodes.
• The missed opportunity to make Tommy a future villain after Malcolm and Laurel die chaps my hide.
• Keeping Team Arrow as a main story and Moira's shadiness secondary was the best storyline.
• Therefore anything to do with the Lances made me STEW.
• The Oliver, Tommy and Laurel triangle of doom was probably meant to be a kind of Team Arrow but subsequently became the ball and chain holding the narrative down.
• Moira dying in season 2 was the worst decision the show made because she is a Queen of note.
• Laurel's mother is the WORST. 

Team Arrow and Moira will be forever the high points of Arrow.

[Kymmi]

I'm currently rewatching S2. I think this is only possible with being able to FF the flashbacks and sometimes Laurel. Currently bitter about how they wasted Summer Glau. Isabel Rochev was so corny. 

[shantown]

I'm just still bitter that a show where I managed to binge almost 100 episodes in under a month because I loved it so much managed to turn me off so completely with NTA that I almost gave up watching completely, and instead watched a skimmed version of most episodes and completely skipped others because I was so frustrated with how awful and overused Wild Dog and Another Black Canary were.

[Kymmi]

2 hours ago, shantown said:

I'm just still bitter that a show where I managed to binge almost 100 episodes in under a month because I loved it so much managed to turn me off so completely with NTA that I almost gave up watching completely, and instead watched a skimmed version of most episodes and completely skipped others because I was so frustrated with how awful and overused Wild Dog and Another Black Canary were.

This may support the hypothesis that the show is better digested in binge, rather than weekly episodes. I remember seasons being so frustrating, I felt like I chewed shards of rage, but still loved the show? Or couldn't give up on it.  I binged S1 and S2 up to the last 2 episodes, and I think the shift from 2A to 2B wasn't as painful, because I was able to move through it, if that makes sense.