Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[writersblock51]

@KirkB, probably.

 

Shit.

[wonderwall]

Didn't Oliver basically smile more during his date with Felicity than he has these last two seasons? So strictly speaking, season 3 has seen Oliver smiling more, even if he never does again.

Touche... I hate logic sometimes. 

[NumberCruncher]

This isn't really bitterness as much as a little sadness, but I was catching up on The Flash episode I missed last week because I was out of town for work and was struck by just how much more I'm enjoying it than what I'm seeing on this show so far in S3.  It's not that I think one is a better show than the other because they each have their pros and cons, but I miss feeling excited to see what happens next on Arrow.  I'm hoping the return of Malcolm and Thea will pique my interest to distract me from all the storylines I don't care for like Felicity cavorting with Creepy McStalkerson and Laurel being a walking ad for gun control.

[thuganomics85]

While, I still have issues over how rushed and poorly developed Thea's journey was into becoming in league with Malcolm (maybe last season, they should have taken some of what felt like hours of Laurel's drunken spiral, and used it towards Thea instead), if nothing else, Willa Holland and especially John Barrowman camping it up, should be better then the majority of the angst so far this season.  If I have to put up with Ollie regressing into a dick again, Laurel's journey to the Canary, and Felicity falling for Ray the Stalker, I want some Thea cray-cray and Malcolm eye-fucking, dammit!

[Danny Franks]

This isn't really bitterness as much as a little sadness, but I was catching up on The Flash episode I missed last week because I was out of town for work and was struck by just how much more I'm enjoying it than what I'm seeing on this show so far in S3.  It's not that I think one is a better show than the other because they each have their pros and cons, but I miss feeling excited to see what happens next on Arrow.  I'm hoping the return of Malcolm and Thea will pique my interest to distract me from all the storylines I don't care for like Felicity cavorting with Creepy McStalkerson and Laurel being a walking ad for gun control.

 

I miss watching the show at all, but I know I'm happier just sniping from the sidelines than actually submitting myself to all the stupid fuckery that the EPs are inflicting on the show, and on the fans, so far in season 3. And as a big comic book fan, I find it sad that three of the four comic book TV shows on at the moment are crap. How did they manage that?

 

Anyway, I think they'll push Felicity with 50 Shades hard, because there is the sentiment that Oliver needs to be taught a lesson and to be shown what a wonderful flower Felicity is. That sentiment is present here, and far more omnipresent in other places. It's nothing new, if you ask me. I've seen this show about fifty times, with the guy making a boneheaded move, and then the girl moves on and 'punishes' him by being with someone else (that's punishment in the eyes of the fans and writers, not in the eyes of the female character). So our 'hero' can mope and angst his way through a few episodes before realising that he actually did want the girl after all. His feelings weren't strong enough when he knew she was sleeping at home, alone. But as soon as she's threatening to actually move on and be happy? Oh boy, you know that the manpain will be overcome by 'true love', or at least by jealousy. Again. Season 3 seems about the usual time in a show's life for this storyline, I reckon.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Danny Franks

[writersblock51]

I've been enjoying 'The Flash' a lot more than "Arrow" but I still see more potential in "Arrow" because Oliver is still so conflicted, I guess.

 

Regardless, the recent stuff about the stunt work on the crossover episodes has me truly interested because it sounds like it will be fun to watch.

 

Unfortunately, the excitement is a bit tempered with the prospect of Laurel showing up on The Flash, though.

[calliope1975]

Anyway, I think they'll push Felicity with 50 Shades hard, because there is the sentiment that Oliver needs to be taught a lesson and to be shown what a wonderful flower Felicity is. That sentiment is present here, and far more omnipresent in other places. It's nothing new, if you ask me. I've seen this show about fifty times, with the guy making a boneheaded move, and then the girl moves on and 'punishes' him by being with someone else (that's punishment in the eyes of the fans and writers, not in the eyes of the female character). So our 'hero' can mope and angst his way through a few episodes before realising that he actually did want the girl after all. His feelings weren't strong enough when he knew she was sleeping at home, alone. But as soon as she's threatening to actually move on and be happy? Oh boy, you know that the manpain will be overcome by 'true love', or at least by jealousy. Again. Season 3 seems about the usual time in a show's life for this storyline, I reckon.

 

I fear this is true and it's so not what I wanted from Felicity and Oliver's relationship. If these writers were better, they could tell a nuanced story where the hero works through his issues organically. Felicity should in no way, shape, or form put her life on hold for Oliver, but I don't see why there's any reason to root for Ray/Felicity when he's only around for 1/2 the season to stall the Olicity ship. (That's why I'd rather their relationship be only professional.) 

[AnyoneButYou]

Anyway, I think they'll push Felicity with 50 Shades hard, because there is the sentiment that Oliver needs to be taught a lesson and to be shown what a wonderful flower Felicity is. That sentiment is present here, and far more omnipresent in other places. It's nothing new, if you ask me. I've seen this show about fifty times, with the guy making a boneheaded move, and then the girl moves on and 'punishes' him by being with someone else (that's punishment in the eyes of the fans and writers, not in the eyes of the female character). So our 'hero' can mope and angst his way through a few episodes before realising that he actually did want the girl after all.

 

I think the 50 Shades of Ray is partly about this but also largely about Lauriver. SA might have said that that Felicity is the only woman in his life this season, but if she's off getting "charmed" by Ray, I can see the producers using the time to test out Lauriver again while they're "consoling" each other. Obviously, the producers will never admit it, but if there's ever a time to see if they can get the audience back on the "because comics" side, it's now when emotions are all over the place and Felicity is pushed into another man's arms.

[Danny Franks]

I fear this is true and it's so not what I wanted from Felicity and Oliver's relationship. If these writers were better, they could tell a nuanced story where the hero works through his issues organically. Felicity should in no way, shape, or form put her life on hold for Oliver, but I don't see why there's any reason to root for Ray/Felicity when he's only around for 1/2 the season to stall the Olicity ship. (That's why I'd rather their relationship be only professional.) 

 

That's why I think it's completely the wrong shade to put on any relationship Felicity might have. Because even when it's supposed to be about her, it's not really about her. Too late in the day for that, now that Oliver has apparently declared he loves her. Now, any relationship she has is about how Oliver reacts, which seems to be what fans are looking for anyway. It was what a lot of people said they wanted to see from the Barry episodes, and it seems to be what a lot of fans are saying now.

 

It's why a platonic relationship with someone other than Oliver and Diggle would be far more beneficial to her character. It would be an opportunity to develop her and not have it be about what Oliver thinks. It would be a chance to see her private life and actually invest in it, because you're not waiting for the fallout when Oliver decides he deserves her more than 50 Shades does.

 

For Oliver, this is about the third or fourth time he's decided he can't have a life, isn't it? It's kind of tiring, to see this 'two steps forward, one step back' approach being employed over and over again. How can you trust that the writers will ever move him forward permanently, when they always have the crutch of, 'Oliver's lady gets hurt > Oliver flagellates himself > Breaks up with girl in manly, yet emo fashion, because he needs to be stoic and strong, and women make him weak. They can hit that button whenever they like. They could hit it the night before he's due to get married, and feel justified in doing it.

[icandigit]

 

Anyway, I think they'll push Felicity with 50 Shades hard, because there is the sentiment that Oliver needs to be taught a lesson and to be shown what a wonderful flower Felicity is.

I really don't understand that. Because Oliver hasn't been through enough already.  It's a superhero show, so let it be about team arrow vs, the bad guys. Let Oliver and Felicity date and deal with all the stuff that comes with that. People can date and have interesting conflicts. And those conflicts don't have to be melodramatic and eat up a  lot of screen time. I liked the finale but I don't like where it led. They really should be together or had them stay friends.

[Danny Franks]

I really don't understand that. Because Oliver hasn't been through enough already.  It's a superhero show, so let it be about team arrow vs, the bad guys. Let Oliver and Felicity date and deal with all the stuff that comes with that. People can date and have interesting conflicts. And those conflicts don't have to be melodramatic and eat up a  lot of screen time. I liked the finale but I don't like where it led. They really should be together or had them stay friends.

 

I don't understand it either, but it's there. In my experience, it always is with 'will they, won't they' pairings. Unintentional hurts caused by the characters result in the fans wanting those hurts to be revisited. And then when they are, other fans want redress, and so on... God, Castle carried that shit on for about three years.

 

And writers usually buy into that thinking too. It's why I usually end up disliking at least one, if not both, characters in a 'will they, won't they' pairing. And if it's not the characters I dislike, it's only because I've created enough of a disconnect to be pissed at the writers directly. For this show, I'm not even letting it get that far, because Oliver and Felicity's relationship was so unbelievably not about the messy, hurtful, dramatic emotional stuff, in the first two seasons. Their relationship was one of the few aspects of Oliver's life that was not messy and hurtful. To see it warped to create that drama is just not something that interests me.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Danny Franks

[NumberCruncher]

Anyway, I think they'll push Felicity with 50 Shades hard, because there is the sentiment that Oliver needs to be taught a lesson and to be shown what a wonderful flower Felicity is. That sentiment is present here, and far more omnipresent in other places. It's nothing new, if you ask me. I've seen this show about fifty times, with the guy making a boneheaded move, and then the girl moves on and 'punishes' him by being with someone else (that's punishment in the eyes of the fans and writers, not in the eyes of the female character). So our 'hero' can mope and angst his way through a few episodes before realising that he actually did want the girl after all. His feelings weren't strong enough when he knew she was sleeping at home, alone. But as soon as she's threatening to actually move on and be happy? Oh boy, you know that the manpain will be overcome by 'true love', or at least by jealousy. Again. Season 3 seems about the usual time in a show's life for this storyline, I reckon.

Great. Now I'm having yet another bad Chuck flashback. :(

I don't disagree with the overall sentiment of your post, but I don't necessarily think that typical gender roles are coming into play as much as the same tired love triangle TV trope. After all, this is the show that has basically told us for two seasons that sisters would rather fight over Oliver Queen's junk than love each other. And I've never been one to think Felicity is perfect (even though I do love her), nor have I ever bought into the belief that Oliver "doesn't deserve her" because I've always felt he helped her be more than she was just as much as she helped him. I didn't think introducing Ray as a potential love interest was the least bit necessary and I still don't, so I'm not looking forward to it.

What I am here for is Oliver finally showing some damn maturity and growth because the moping manpain is getting old. I don't see Felicity walking away as punishing him because it appeared to me that she did it more for herself than for him, but I don't need Oliver's growth come from his jealousy that she moved on with her life either for the reason you mentioned--it's selfish. They could have easily brought Ray in as a professional/superhero rival and left it at that without the romantic subplot and it would have served its purpose in making Oliver grow up and realize that he doesn't have to sacrifice his identity to be successful in life or as The Arrow.

[Starfish35]

Unfortunately, the excitement is a bit tempered with the prospect of Laurel showing up on The Flash, though.

Wait what? Seriously? Can I not get away from this character? *cries*

Edited October 20, 2014 by Starfish35

[NumberCruncher]

And writers usually buy into that thinking too. It's why I usually end up disliking at least one, if not both, characters in a 'will they, won't they' pairing. And if it's not the characters I dislike, it's only because I've created enough of a disconnect to be pissed at the writers directly. For this show, I'm not even letting it get that far, because Oliver and Felicity's relationship was so unbelievably not about the messy, hurtful, dramatic emotional stuff, in the first two seasons. Their relationship was one of the few aspects of Oliver's life that was not messy and hurtful. To see it warped to create that drama is just not something that interests me.

Completely agree with this--especially the bolded. If they want to break/keep them apart because of Oliver's continual, self-inflicted isolation...fine, but I don't want the writers to then throw a bunch of anger and jealousy into the situation because it cheapens one of the main reasons people enjoy their relationship so much.

[wingster55]

I wish Oliver wasn't always wrong about his personal life. For once I'd like someone else be wrong.

[wonderwall]

Hm, I don't believe Oliver and Felicity's relationship is messy. Just because there's conflict doesn't mean that it's messy. Now Oliver and Laurel's relationship? Now that's messy. Right now Oliver and Felicity want different things in life, and obviously that will cause some tension because obviously they want to be with each other and are coping about their 'break up' in different manners. Oliver is pushing Felicity away by being an ass, and Felicity is moving on with her life not letting Oliver get to her:

 

 

Regardless of their issues right now, I think this is the growing pains part of their relationship. They're growing as individuals and I think when they do finally get together, it'll be far less messy. 

Edited October 20, 2014 by wonderwall

[Guest]

I wonder if Felicity dropping a few lines of important info and then leaving for her job is going to be how things play out for the next god knows how many episodes. If so I don't want it. 

 

I'm putting this in the bitter thread because I'm bitter just thinking about it.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Guest

[DrSpaceman10]

I wonder if Felicity dropping a few lines of important info and then leaving for her job is going to be how things play out for the next god knows how many episodes. If so I don't want it. 

 

I'm putting this in the bitter thread because I'm bitter just thinking about it.

 

I'm worried/bitter about the show trying to shove Laurel into Felicity's place. 

Especially in regards to the new pictures of Laurel in the foundry

[Chaser]

They had to time stamp a word document for Laurel. I don't see how she could take Felicity's place.

[apinknightmare]

They had to time stamp a word document for Laurel. I don't see how she could take Felicity's place.

 

Laurel would totally use those Cobalt-encrypted workstations to tweet.

[Guest]

I'm worried/bitter about the show trying to shove Laurel into Felicity's place. 

Especially in regards to the new pictures of Laurel in the foundry

 

I don't see it as much as trying to shove Laurel into Felicity's place (no way could she ever be replaced) but it is really convenient that Laurel's arc begins at the same time that Felicity and Oliver are at odds and she's working with Ray (which means all of her scenes are going to be with Ray). 

 

Also I hate that Felicity is being used to prop Ray. It wouldn't be so bad if this storyline was just about Felicity thriving in a professional way but any hint of romance turns me off completely. I really wish they wouldn't go down that road.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Guest

[Orion]

Laurel would totally use those Cobalt-encrypted workstations to tweet.

 

Yeah but @AlwaysDetectiveLance and @StarlingCitysPantsuitEmporium  are her only followers so how much damage could she really do. :)

[apinknightmare]

Yeah but @AlwaysDetectiveLance and @StarlingCitysPantsuitEmporium  are her only followers so how much damage could she really do. :)

 

#thatssolaurel

[calliope1975]

Yeah but @AlwaysDetectiveLance and @StarlingCitysPantsuitEmporium  are her only followers so how much damage could she really do. :)

 

This just made me LOL at work. Thank you! My friend/co-worker that I watch with is always saying stuff like "Nice pantsuit, Laurel." Always makes me laugh.

[statsgirl]

I don't see it as much as trying to shove Laurel into Felicity's place (no way could she ever be replaced) but it is really convenient that Laurel's arc begins at the same time that Felicity and Oliver are at odds and she's working with Ray (which means all of her scenes are going to be with Ray). 

Convenient?  I'd say planned.  The only way to justify Oliver getting closer to Laurel is if Felicity's making eyes at another guy.

 

I miss watching the show at all, but I know I'm happier just sniping from the sidelines than actually submitting myself to all the stupid fuckery that the 

Anyway, I think they'll push Felicity with 50 Shades hard, because there is the sentiment that Oliver needs to be taught a lesson and to be shown what a wonderful flower Felicity is. That sentiment is present here, and far more omnipresent in other places. It's nothing new, if you ask me. I've seen this show about fifty times, with the guy making a boneheaded move, and then the girl moves on and 'punishes' him by being with someone else (that's punishment in the eyes of the fans and writers, not in the eyes of the female character). So our 'hero' can mope and angst his way through a few episodes before realising that he actually did want the girl after all. His feelings weren't strong enough when he knew she was sleeping at home, alone. But as soon as she's threatening to actually move on and be happy? Oh boy, you know that the manpain will be overcome by 'true love', or at least by jealousy. Again. Season 3 seems about the usual time in a show's life for this storyline, I reckon.

So true that you're giving me nightmares. I HATE triangles on shows.

 

Why can't the guy go and pursue the girl without making it about staking his claim on her in the face of another man?  (I might add,His Girl Friday was the same even back in the 30s.)

 

That's why I think it's completely the wrong shade to put on any relationship Felicity might have. Because even when it's supposed to be about her, it's not really about her. Too late in the day for that, now that Oliver has apparently declared he loves her. Now, any relationship she has is about how Oliver reacts, which seems to be what fans are looking for anyway.

Don't know about the audience but it's what the writers certainly are looking for.  Everything that happens on this show is about Oliver because for the writers, he is their wish fulfillment.  Strong, gorgeous, suffering but working through it, women repeatedly getting fridged for him, and MG's incredibly crude comment about Oliver getting all the ass..  This is the EPs fantasies.

[Guest]

Convenient?  I'd say planned.  The only way to justify Oliver getting closer to Laurel is if Felicity's making eyes at another guy.

 

Ha, yeah. I meant to italicize 'convenient' because I was being sarcastic. That's exactly what I meant and I hate hate hate it. They've really bought me onboard with Oliver and Felicity's relationship. It's one of the highlights of this show and messing with it just to somehow make Laurel work pisses me off. 

[Trini]

... but I don't see why there's any reason to root for Ray/Felicity when he's only around for 1/2 the season to stall the Olicity ship. (That's why I'd rather their relationship be only professional.) 

 

Funny story, Brandon Routh already played this exact role on Chuck. (With his character being kinda creepy too!) But on that show, the romance of the two leads was one of the main themes of the show.

 

Great. Now I'm having yet another bad Chuck flashback. :(

Yeah; basically. This storyline sucked over there too.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Trini

[wonderwall]

 

This makes me SO ANGRY and so sad at the same time :( Sin deserves to know. And I feel robbed for never being able to see this again. Ugh Laurel so should've died. She literally has no other meaningful connections on this show other than Quentin and Oliver. 

[TanyaKay]

 

This makes me SO ANGRY and so sad at the same time :( Sin deserves to know. And I feel robbed for never being able to see this again. Ugh Laurel so should've died. She literally has no other meaningful connections on this show other than Quentin and Oliver. 

 

Not even Oliver.

Post 2x14, their relationship cannot even be called anything. He told her to go get drunk, then told her to stay away from the team when he said that it started with the three of us and then pretty much told everyone that the city comes first after Slade's goon took Laurel.

[Kymmi]

I swear to all things holy if Oliver and Laurel fall into bed with each other again I will lose my freaking mind.  It's my third rail with this show, I've found.  I quit the first time (after episode 2) because of my dislike of Laurel.  I can't deal with those two again - especially in light of Sara's last words of Oliver needing her.  Stop passing the magic penis.  We all suffer for it.

[DrSpaceman10]

I find all Oliver/Laurel scenes really awkward so I'm not happy about the show potentially making them BFFs.

 

I swear to all things holy if Oliver and Laurel fall into bed with each other again I will lose my freaking mind.  

 

O/L falling into bed together ever again would be such a train-wreck, it would almost be funny. Almost.

[statsgirl]

Given how popular the Oliver/Felicity pairing is in the general viewership of the show, if O/L fall into bed together, it will be accompanied by the sound of many TVs being turned off.  Oliver is the star of the show but that would be hard to recover from.

Edited October 21, 2014 by statsgirl

[Password]

If anything what I'm most interested to see is how Oliver will throw his hat back into the basket (so to speak) in regards to letting Felicity know he's an option for her again. If this is a triangle (somebody sedate me) then him being completely out of the running wouldn't make sense. I imagine the two will get over their we-love-each-other-but-can't-be-together thing eventually and be their normal, friendly selves, but by then Mr Smarms will have his clutches in Felicity...I mean she'll be involved with him. I won't lie, this whole lovely contrived thing gives me a stomach ache. I am blatantly using Ray Palmer to get to know my Felicity better. I love that Felicity is taking charge of her life and trying to have a life, I love that she's not about Oliver's issues and I love that she looks even hotter this season (sorry). But Ray...oh my.

 

I'm very annoyed at Oliver's actions to the point of did the premiere even happen? I didn't think he'd be able to lock down quite that much after those confessions but I guess it's in character. It is interesting that the two of them came to the same realisations in the same episode:

they want more to life than staying/dying in the foundry.

Is anyone excited for episode 5? Because I am positively there!

[yellowfred]

 

This makes me SO ANGRY and so sad at the same time :( Sin deserves to know. And I feel robbed for never being able to see this again.

 

I know, right?  I actually still haven't decided which is worse:  that we're never going to see the two of them together again or that Sin might never even know why.  I keep going back to the fact that Sin was probably the only person Sara actually spoke to for months.  She's also the only person Sara actually chose to interact with (Oliver tracked her down and her family only found out about her because they got dragged into the League of Assassins stuff).  I hate that "Sara," the episode, had so little to do with Sara, the person, that they didn't even have time to mention her significant relationships outside of Oliver and Laurel (and a little bit of Quentin). 

[Danny Franks]

I know, right?  I actually still haven't decided which is worse:  that we're never going to see the two of them together again or that Sin might never even know why.  I keep going back to the fact that Sin was probably the only person Sara actually spoke to for months.  She's also the only person Sara actually chose to interact with (Oliver tracked her down and her family only found out about her because they got dragged into the League of Assassins stuff).  I hate that "Sara," the episode, had so little to do with Sara, the person, that they didn't even have time to mention her significant relationships outside of Oliver and Laurel (and a little bit of Quentin). 

 

Do the writers even remember Sin exists? I can't imagine she'll show up again, now that Sara's dead and Thea's doing whatever. Sad thing is, I really liked the Teen Arrow group last season. It was fun seeing those three, slightly dopey, slightly incompetent but good intentioned kids trying to solve mysteries. This show just throws away so much that's good in their haste to honour comic book continuity (which isn't even continuity any more) or their own harebrained plans.

 

And honestly, I think the idea of two vigilante teams, one the 'professionals', one the amateurs trying to get started, would have been a lot of fun. I'd have enjoyed seeing Oliver's exasperation at Roy and Thea getting involved in this stuff, and Sara trying to steer Sin away from it, and Felicity being bad at lying whenever she runs into one of them. Arrow's pacing fucking stinks, and when I look back at all the opportunities they've blown through in a couple of episodes, or never even bothered exploring, it's just so dispiriting. But it makes sense. I mean, who wants to see Roy, Thea or Sin's journeys when they can see Laurel's?

[AnyoneButYou]

Do the writers even remember Sin exists? I can't imagine she'll show up again, now that Sara's dead and Thea's doing whatever.

 

I don't even think the producers and writers remember that Laurel and Sara have a mother who's still alive and kicking, so Sin is probably long forgotten.

Edited October 21, 2014 by AnyoneButYou

[Pyramid]

I don't even think the producers and writers remember that Laurel and Sara have a mother who's still alive and kicking, so Sin is probably long forgotten.

They'll remember when it becomes apparent that Laurel's BC isn't working and they need to kill off someone else to "open up story possibilities".

[insubordination]

 

hey need to kill off someone else to "open up story possibilities".

They're not very creative, are they?

[writersblock51]

Thank you to everyone for bringing up Sin.  In all of my other reasons for being ticked off at Sara's death and everything having to do with it, I actually overlooked Sin's role in Sara's Starling City life.

 

 

Do the writers even remember Sin exists? I can't imagine she'll show up again, now that Sara's dead and Thea's doing whatever. Sad thing is, I really liked the Teen Arrow group last season. It was fun seeing those three, slightly dopey, slightly incompetent but good intentioned kids trying to solve mysteries. This show just throws away so much that's good in their haste to honour comic book continuity (which isn't even continuity any more) or their own harebrained plans.

 

This is the double edged sword nature of the show, I think.  They tweak the DC universe to fit the Arrow one they've created, some good even great things develop, but then they pull back - Comics! - and blow another opportunitiy.

 

I understand that the show films far in advance, so they can't adjust in real time to a happy accident or a  dismal failure.  But a more creative team, I think, would be able to work in (or out, as the case may be) things once audience and critical reaction can be measured.  They've done it before, they can do it again.

 

Leaving Quentin out of the loop, on screen, is already a massive thorn in my side.  Leaving Dinah and Sin out, even off screen, is a blot on the record of the show, I think. The show places a great deal of emphasis on Easter Eggs and meaningful details but it drops characters & stories for the sake of... I'm not even sure what. 

 

Dropped in terms of Sara's death alone:

- the world doesn't know her/yes they do (party, hospital visit, PD visit)

- Dinah searched high & lo for almost 6 years, happily in Central City now, thinking Sara is alive

- Sin is still connected to Roy and could be to Thea upon that young woman's return... but no, she's not even mentioned

 

By dropping these 3 key elements, the show, I feel, is further saying that Sara really doesn't matter to the show.  Her only purpose would appear to be to further Laurel's journey. Since those elements don't effect Laurel (though Dinah should be involved at some point, yes?), we won't see or hear about them.

 

And amen to the loss of Teen Arrow - I enjoyed those crazy kids, too.

 

As for Laurel and Oliver's relationship going forward.  Maybe friends (though it will be yet more scenes I'll FF through)?  But anything more than that: best friends, flirting, or WORSE... just hell no.  Because that ship has sailed.  SA said so this summer and unless he was lying OR the EPs have changed course since SDCC, then I'm going with what he said and what's shown on screen.

And what I saw on screen was Oliver being a good friend in a shared loss event but otherwise annoyed with her presence in the lair.  3 eye rolls on his part, from what I could see.

 

I highly doubt that the show would ever explore them as a couple again, let alone share a kiss.  The backlash would be horrible, and that's not just Olicity fans reacting. A large number of critics would be questioning the wisdom of that move as well.

[writersblock51]

Back to add comments about Caity Lotz's Dallas Con appearance. I didn't see or hear the interview, so my comments are based solely on what someone had written up on the Appearances Thread...

 

CL said, among other things, that she thinks Laurel will make a good Black Canary. 

 

While I appreciate her professionalism in saying so, I respectfully disagree.  I've already vented about why.

 

But here's my additional comment - how shitty is it that the actress who helped construct a viable Black Canary on screen (even when ridiculous stuff was thrown into the mix) has to now publicize her replacement.  Yes, I know that's the business.  I get that. But it's still crappy, and I feel bad for her. 

 

She also may be coming back to further flesh out the character (which makes NO sense to me) only to have to still hand it over to an actress who cannot do any of it justice.  An actress who has shown so little respect and interest in the character as it's been made for her.  An actress who, from what I've gleaned from interviews, has not been as graceful, appreciative or professional about CL and all that she's done.

 

Furthermore, the season has barely started and there's a growing sense of doom and disconnect for many fans of the show that I'm in contact with.  Obviously, there are plenty of fans who are very enthusiastic about what's happening. Great for them.

 

But, for me, CL's con comments, coupled with the prospects of MORE tension and a BIGGER rift within Team Arrow and Oliver/Felicity... no thanks.

 

It does make me wonder who the EPs are listening to other than themselves.

[SonofaBiscuit]

As for Laurel and Oliver's relationship going forward.  Maybe friends (though it will be yet more scenes I'll FF through)?  But anything more than that: best friends, flirting, or WORSE... just hell no.  Because that ship has sailed.  SA said so this summer and unless he was lying OR the EPs have changed course since SDCC, then I'm going with what he said and what's shown on screen.

And what I saw on screen was Oliver being a good friend in a shared loss event but otherwise annoyed with her presence in the lair.  3 eye rolls on his part, from what I could see.

 

It could just be me, but I'm already seeing the flirty stuff on KC's end.  The way she acted at Quentin's press conference and the way she always launches herself into Oliver's arms (while he proceeds to turn into a block of wood) seem like she's trying to make something happen there.  Like maybe she believes if she can make the EPs see the chemistry between her and Oliver, they will let her be with her soulmate.

[writersblock51]

^^ I thought that was just me and my UGH-KC-EYEROLL reaction everytime I see her ...... hmm....

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

^^ I thought that was just me and my UGH-KC-EYEROLL reaction everytime I see her ...... hmm....

Definitely not just you. This supposed string character made herself a damsel in emotional distress to throw herself at him. She stood poised when Oliver, Felicity, and Roy walked in but then turned all saddened southern belle. I would have believed it more if she'd been sitting on the floor bawling uncontrollably and he had moved to console her.

[Chaser]

I saw KC push it at the press conference. The only thing I noticed about the hugs were how non responsive Oliver was to it; it looked like he was going through the motions. In my opinion, SA can play her friend fine but he seems really uncomfortable in romantic scenes with Laurel.  Thats one of the reasons why I have trouble with watching them in scenes together. It makes it awkward when you have one actor playing the friend and one actor playing it with romance; it doesn't work.

[ohjoy]

I saw KC push it at the press conference. The only thing I noticed about the hugs were how non responsive Oliver was to it; it looked like he was going through the motions. In my opinion, SA can play her friend fine but he seems really uncomfortable in romantic scenes with Laurel.  Thats one of the reasons why I have trouble with watching them in scenes together. It makes it awkward when you have one actor playing the friend and one actor playing it with romance; it doesn't work.

I believe SA has mentioned several times how he doesn't think Oliver is in love with Laurel anymore -- that argument in "Time of Death" really seems to have been it for him. If KC insists on continuing to play Laurel as though she's still romatically entangled with Oliver, then I hope SA similarly sticks to his guns and continues to play Oliver as not so romantically inclined toward Laurel. It may be extremely awkward, but then I can chalk it up to both actor's acting choices, and it would shade their scenes with some much much needed unintended comedy.

[statsgirl]

  Like maybe she believes if she can make the EPs see the chemistry between her and Oliver, they will let her be with her soulmate.

I'm not ruling it out.  She's got them to make her the BC long before it should be, if ever.

[AnyoneButYou]

Making Laurel and Oliver friends and spending time together is where the whole shipping thing starts. Look at Felicity and Oliver. Look at a lot of television pairings. A lot of them were borne from friendships. They're pimping out the Olicity because that's where their bread and butter is, but I think the producers are trying to test the Lauriver ship on the sly. I don't think Lauriver will be making out or jumping into bed together, but if it looks like SA and KC are developing even a modicum of chemistry, Lauriver might actually be a thing again. Everything is pointing to it, in my opinion. Killing Sara was was just as much about getting Laurel on the path to becoming Black Canary as it was about getting Laurel and Oliver back together. Everyone may have been promoting Olicity, but where is Felicity going to be during all of this? Babysitting Ray.

 

Hopefully, I'm wrong, but KC's been way too happy this season for me to believe that Lauriver isn't still a possibility soon considering the romance aspect seems to be such a huge thing for her. Maybe even bigger than being BC, in my opinion.

Edited October 21, 2014 by AnyoneButYou

[calliope1975]

Hopefully, I'm wrong, but KC's been way too happy this season for me to believe that Lauriver isn't still a possibility soon considering the romance aspect seems to be such a huge thing for her. Maybe even bigger than being BC, in my opinion.

 

Based on the few interviews I've read with KC, I think she absolutely believes Laurel and Oliver will get back together. As others have said, I also think KC is playing it that way, thus making for super awkward interactions between L/O. If this continues, yes, it will bring some unintentional comedy, but it's also going to be terrible. I can only hope if it gets to that point, I will be long gone reading fanfic to get my Felicity fix. 

 

Since the EPs can't rein KC in with her interview answers, they can't make her act as Laurel and not as KC (psychotic grins), and even when she is acting as Laurel, she's playing it in her own weird head canon way, this is a spectacular disaster waiting to happen. 

[Guest]

Making Laurel and Oliver friends and spending time together is where the whole shipping thing starts. Look at Felicity and Oliver. Look at a lot of television pairings. A lot of them were borne from friendships. They're pimping out the Olicity because that's where their bread and butter is, but I think the producers are trying to test the Lauriver ship on the sly. I don't think Lauriver will be making out or jumping into bed together, but if it looks like SA and KC are developing even a modicum of chemistry, Lauriver might actually be a thing again. Everything is pointing to it, in my opinion. Killing Sara was was just as much about getting Laurel on the path to becoming Black Canary as it was about getting Laurel and Oliver back together. Everyone may have been promoting Olicity, but where is Felicity going to be during all of this? Babysitting Ray.

 

Hopefully, I'm wrong, but KC's been way too happy this season for me to believe that Lauriver isn't still a possibility soon considering the romance aspect seems to be such a huge thing for her. Maybe even bigger than being BC, in my opinion.

 

 

I do see where you guys are coming from and I have similar fears myself but the trouble is they didn't sell Lauriver before so how could they possibly sell them now? You can't fix a lack of chemistry. You can't fix the fact that he slept with her sister, not once but repeatedly when they started a relationship - a very recent relationship. Plus SA really doesn't sell any kind of connection with KC at all. Even when they hug it looks awkward. I'll never forget that scene towards the end of s2 when Laurel is in the lair and she's begging him not to end his life and she says she knows him like her own name and he didn't look moved at all. Felicity only has to say she believes in him and he emotes the hell out of it.

 

So while I wouldn't put it past the EP's to try and reconnect L/O with Felicity out of the way, I don't see it working at all. Even in the absence of how loved Olicity is (as well as their connection and chemistry) Lauriver doesn't have a strong enough foundation to even get them started.

 

As for KC being happy, I know she sprouts that soulmate crap too often but I think her excitement for this season is purely becoming BC and finally being involved in the A storylines, being in the lair with Team Arrow. It makes her the centre of attention. She's spoken many times about wanting to get involved in the action and the fight scenes or whatever so I think it's largely to do with that. Or maybe I'm just deluding myself. 

Edited October 21, 2014 by Guest

[NumberCruncher]

They're pimping out the Olicity because that's where their bread and butter is, but I think the producers are trying to test the Lauriver ship on the sly. I don't think Lauriver will be making out or jumping into bed together, but if it looks like SA and KC are developing even a modicum of chemistry, Lauriver might actually be a thing again. Everything is pointing to it, in my opinion.

That wouldn't make sense to me though. Logically, if they know Olicity are popular and get people watching (hence all the promo), then why would they blow them up in favor of Lauriver? That would risk losing the viewers they're supposedly "pandering" to. If anything, I think they're still planning to go the Olicity route because they aren't stupid, but are desperately trying to insert Laurel into the Team Arrow dynamic in the hope that maybe some of their popularity will rub off on a character that has generally been disliked/ignored.