The Blotter Presents

[txhorns79]

Quote

I think it's underrated -- nobody serves NYC sweltering in the summer like Spike Lee -- but also self-indulgent (the Who sequence with the dummy). I also think it's hard to put together a portrayal of that period that acknowledges the state of things without yawing too far into apocalyptic hellscape. 

I can agree with you on that.  Summer of Sam would have worked better to me as a tighter movie without the tangents.  You are also right on the hellscape.  It does feel like every documentary/movie regarding New York in the 70s has to do the usual montage of "Bronx is Burning/Blackout/Studio 54/Times Square - Porn/Hooker Capital of the World," and there's a serious temptation to make that the only story that is told.     

[Primetimer]

Eve Batey's back for two takes on the original Zodiac, one on the NYC copycat, and a whole lotta side-eyeing of questioned-document 'science.'

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[MCMLXXVII]

Thanks for mentioning NY Zodiac, he was the one of my youth and I remember being extremely confused upon learning of the SF version.

Same with learning of Original Night Stalker vs. Richard Ramirez.

ETA: small world- Paul Schneider, the Aryan Nation guy from the SF dog-mauling case gave a DNA sample to clear himself as a suspect for the Original Night Stalker case. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by MCMLXXVII

[Sarah D. Bunting]

I think I JUST learned those weren't the same guy, like, last year.

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Ugh, definitely skip this episode (84) of RCP.  Maximum outrage, very little process.  

[Sarah D. Bunting]

I was just coming in here to see if you'd posted about it. I was pre-annoyed by the subhed in my podcast app so thanks for the heads-up!

[FormerMod-a1]

I don't know.  I liked the most recent episode of RCP better then the last - interesting guest and interview I thought.

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

I am 100% on board with the work Joelle is doing to assist victims.   I just didn't feel like there was a whole lot of new information provided (other than the horrifying revelation that Lisa Zambetti was also abused as a child(!!!) which provides more context to the pod, but it's really adding to the overall Keepers mystery).   

That being said, perhaps I was a bit put off by Joelle's "My 11 year old thinks sex is disgusting and that's what he should think about it."   I get what she was saying, but there were a few comments about childhood innocence and sex that I found a bit...1950s maybe?  

[Sarah D. Bunting]

(Here's a link out to our thread on crime podcasts -- in case anyone wants to get into it about RCP generally, versus just the Keepers episodes.)

[swimmyfish]

Do you think the handwriting "expert"'s mention of the name Kane was maybe a reference to Cain and Abel? Like, if they could tell from the handwriting that the Zodiac had a lot of anger toward women - and not from the evidence of him brutally murdering a bunch of women - maybe the handwriting was also indicative that this killer was a lot like Cain, the first killer, in that they both killed people? That does seem like the kind of thing that could only be determined from handwriting, after all. [/sarcasm]

 

In addition to the series of Sarah dramatically narrating Eve's daily activities, I would really love to hear more about the holes Eve sees in the different Zodiac theories. My main familiarity with the case comes from the David Fincher movie, so it never occurred to me that the crimes ascribed to the Zodiac may not all be related.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Most of my intel prior to the Fincher movie came from John Douglas's The Cases That Haunt Us, which just assumes Cheri Jo Bates is part of the series, but now I'm not sure about that either. But once we've finished our Buntsy On Batey pilot :) Eve will definitely come back on to talk about Zodiac theories and other stuff.

[veronicamers]

Thanks y'all for the Peter Thomas love. He was a gem. I'll never turn off an ep of Forensic Files because his voice is just that hypnotic. 

[John Potts]

Is this episode encoded differently than other Podcasts on PTV? I can't get this episode to play, but EHG episodes and That's What I'm Tarkin About! run just fine. It probably is something about my computer, I just don't understand why it is playing some Podcasts and not others. I can even play the latest TBP(Zodiac) episode. Is anyone else having this problem?

[Sarah D. Bunting]

hmm. I don't think so, but we have been pulling the files onto a new system (thus the re-download dump from a couple weeks back). Can you get other TBP eps to play?

 

(Feel free to email me so I remember to ping Dave about this if you're still having problems.)

[John Potts]

4 hours ago, Sarah D. Bunting said:

Can you get other TBP eps to play?

No - I checked a few and the only episode I can get to run is the Zodiac one. That even applies to episodes I definitely have run before. I did recently download an update for Windows 10 (and my computer is OLD), I'm just baffled that it only seems to affect TBP and not other Podcasts on the site.

But thanks for the response!

[Sarah D. Bunting]

...hmm. Well, DM me next Wednesday and let me know if Ep 20 works; if it doesn't we can try to troubleshoot it from there.

 

More topically: I'm prepping for our next episode on The Murder Of Laci Peterson and Dan Abrams and his ungrey-yet hair are all over the archival footage from early 2003.

[txhorns79]

I have to say my father is also not the Zodiac killer.

And I'm with Sarah.  I never really gave thought to the idea that the survivors in the Zodiac attacks may have had a role, and were using the Zodiac as a cover.  Now that it has been said, it seems obvious, though I guess it will never be proven one way or the other at this point.  Honestly, the idea of a man approaching you at the lake with the gun while wearing that Zodiac hood with glasses over the hood seems terrifying, but also slightly ridiculous. 

[Primetimer]

Kim Reed and Sarah D. Bunting discuss A&E's event series, plus a Forensic Files in Kim's backyard (figuratively).

View the full article

[Bitchy McSnappy]

Maybe it was just me (& the bourbon), but I was amazed at home cheerful David Berkowitz sounded - that was the creepiest part for me.

[Pogojoco]

I remember this case pretty vividly. I was sort of neutral on Scott Peterson's guilt until I saw his stepsister on Oprah.

She basically talked about how shady AF he was - he was draining the pool and cleaning it soon after Laci disappeared. And the stepsister was like, "What are you doing?" and he had no real answer. And a theory is that he killed her in the pool. Also, he scrubbed the house with bleach before the cops got there. 


And then they talked about the statistics of men that off their pregnant wives. Like, a pregnant woman is more likely to die by the baby's father than anything else.

I also remember Laci's mother telling him "It's called divorce, Scott." Because, I mean, really.

What an asshole.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Pogojoco

[movingtargetgal]

19 hours ago, Pogojoco said:

I remember this case pretty vividly. I was sort of neutral on Scott Peterson's guilt until I saw his stepsister on Oprah.

She basically talked about how shady AF he was - he was draining the pool and cleaning it soon after Lacey disappeared. And the stepsister was like, "What are you doing?" and he had no real answer. And the theory is that he killed her in the pool.


And then they talked about the statistics of men that off their pregnant wives. Like, a pregnant woman is more likely to die by the baby's father than anything else.

I also remember Lacey's mother, with an oxygen tank, telling him "It's called divorce, Scott." Because, I mean, really.

What an asshole.

I was kind of obsessed with this case because in my town there had been a similar case. A woman who was 7 months pregnant and was stabbed to death in a sand pit. It is "alleged" that her husband hired two men to kidnap his wife from the mall, bring her to the pit, so he could watch them murder her. I stated that he allegedly did it because he was acquitted at trial, even though his accomplices confessed and testified against him. News cameras followed him as he literally walked out of jail. He was flashing a big wad of cash and saying things like "The bitch was nothing but trouble for me, she won't be anymore.". I felt so sick watching him get away with it. It was the first time I really hit with the fact that the justice system doesn't always work and sometimes the bad guys win. Then there was the OJ trial. .. So as I watched the Peterson case unfold, I became really invested. I was so afraid that yet another man would just get away with it.

Edited August 17, 2017 by movingtargetgal

[veronicamers]

Sarah, your engagement story is seriously the best.

Oh Scott Peterson. I remember getting into a heated discussion with a dude at work who was convinced there was no evidence to convict him. I was arguing the totality of circumstantial evidence (a term I maybe just made up) notion: that one piece by itself was not enough, but when you layer all of it there is really no other legit explanation for her death other than Scott was responsible.

Also this case seem to set off a chain of high profile/intensely covered cases of men murdering their pregnant wives. One of the more heartbreaking one was Lori Hacking in Utah in 2004. It became such a thing...every time a woman would go missing we'd be all "Well, was she pregnant?" And a running gag with my husband during my two pregnancies where every instance of weird behavior (or even the most routine thing like updating life insurance) became fodder for a potential murder plot. But baby, a true crime nut like me is the last person you'd want to try to kill. I'm two steps ahead a ya.

An interesting book on men murdering their wives is Erased: Missing Women, Murdered Wives
by Marilee Strong. I read it years ago. She discusses Peterson, Hacking, our old pals Robert Durst and Jeffrey MacDonald, and one of my all time "favorite" cases: Ira Einhorn and the murder of Holly Maddux.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Ooh, that sounds excellent.

[Earmuffs Mom]

I just finished watching this and listening to your podcast.  I'm still so unnerved by the fact that so many doctors were snowed by Dee Dee, took her list of misspelled diagnoses at face value, and thinking about all of the unnecessary medical procedures Gypsy underwent.  

[iMonrey]

My first "The Blotter Presents" podcast. Very well done! Couldn't agree more about the eyewitness reports being kind of shaky after the fact, and that we don't know what kind of cherry-picking this show did to weed out eyewitness reports that didn't fit the story.

A&E did a special on JonBenet Ramsey earlier this year that was extremely favorable to the Ramseys and really pushed the "intruder theory" hard. I have a strong suspicion the network contracted with the Ramseys for exclusive new interview material in exchange for presenting them in a favorable light. I also suspect that's what's going on now with the Peterson family. They give the network new interviews and in exchange A&E pushes the "robbery theory" for them.

[John Potts]

OK, I know nothing of this case, but I do recall thinking when I heard a the co-worker commenting on the OJ trial, "He's only **** gone and got away with it!" - hang on, twelve people listened to the evidence for weeks and didn't reach a guilty plea, you've heard the headlines and know better? I can't help thinking that I might act in a similar way if my wife had died - cleaning the house seems like the sort of thing I might do as a sort of displacement activity to avoid thinking about her death (although I'd have to have a wife first!). I'd also, from my knowledge of TV, know that talking to cops is probably a bad idea, certainly without a lawyer, so I'd do all the things that make people go, "He's got something to hide!" - but would probably keep me out of prison. So if you ever hear of the "John Potts Murders", this will be either count as proof of my innocence or shows just how devious I am in establishing my alibi!

[Huh, Sarah's story of her engagement sounds oddly reminiscent of the ancient history that was my own (brief) engagement, in that it was similarly semi accidental]

[smorbie]

My first "The Blotter Presents" podcast. Very well done! Couldn't agree more about the eyewitness reports being kind of shaky after the fact, and that we don't know what kind of cherry-picking this show did to weed out eyewitness reports that didn't fit the story.

A&E did a special on JonBenet Ramsey earlier this year that was extremely favorable to the Ramseys and really pushed the "intruder theory" hard. I have a strong suspicion the network contracted with the Ramseys for exclusive new interview material in exchange for presenting them in a favorable light. I also suspect that's what's going on now with the Peterson family. They give the network new interviews and in exchange A&E pushes the "robbery theory" for them.

These eyewitnesses were found at the time. It was presented in court, but the jury, rightfully so, discounted it. Naturally, the story is told from the angle that there is something more to discover because that's how one gets ratings. But the story was told and the truth was discovered. He's where he belongs.

And no, Bunting, I wasn't obsessed with the trial. But, it was interesting and I remember details of it.

[SanLynn]

Another great episode. Having only seen the first ep of the Laci Peterson murder I'm pretty skeptical of blaming it on the burglars.

I'm supposed to believe these idiots who rob homes on Christmas Eve in broad daylight were smart enough to hold on to Lacey (or her body) for 2-3 days after kidnapping her so they can know where Scott went that day and then dump her body in the same place?

Plus why didn't anyone see them shove her into their van? Clearly there were people people everywhere if the witnesses are remembering things correctly.

The story just seems too implausible to hold together. I hope they have more in their arsenal to "prove Scott's innocence" or this will be very boring.

Or maybe I just won't believe anything because I'm already convinced he's guilty

[HerrElvis]

Just (tried to) watch the episode of "The Jury Speaks" about Jackson. I couldn't get more than 10 minutes in before it made my eyes roll a complete 360 and blinded me.

 

But! Before that happened, I got to the Aphrodite Jones quote from the podcast, and they edited it! The audio was clipped to make it sound like "free reign," but the video still showed her obviously saying "free range." I'm surprised the changed it between screener and airing, but I guess not everyone thinks Jones is a complete buffoon?

[Sarah D. Bunting]

huh! I mean, not that that isn't a common transposition/error, but I'm never inclined to give AJ the benefit of the doubt. Heh.

[Primetimer]

Will Dave Holloway get the answers he's searched for for so long? And what exactly was wrong with Charlie Brandt? Allison Lowe Huff returns to look at mysteries within mysteries.

View the full article

[Earmuffs Mom]

I watched Ep. 2 last night with the focus on Amber Frey.  I didn't follow the case as closely as others, so I was surprised they hadn't been together longer before Laci disappeared.  The fact that he lied to Amber over and over and over really damaged his credibility on other things.  I didn't buy Ted Rowland's explanation that what Scott was really hiding was his mistress, not his wife's murder, when he was evasive with police.  He was still too cold and calculating with the press and everyone else, and lying through his teeth to Amber to not be hiding anything else.

[Primetimer]

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[Pogojoco]

The thing I always loved about Biggie was that he was fat, blacker than tar and probably asthmatic (I hear it in the voice) and he's always like, "I'm here now. And I'm the King." His lyrics were always so poetic and clever, and angry. Phrasing, word choice.

"I wish moms would hurry up so I could get buck
Wild juvenile ripping mics and shit
New York, New York, ready for the likes of this
Then came the worst date, May 21st
2:19, that's when my momma water burst
No spouse in the house so she rode for self
To the hospital, to see if she could get a little help
Umbilical cord's wrapped around my neck
I'm seeing my death and I ain't even took my first step
I made it out, I'm bringing mad joy
The doctor looked and said, "He's going to be a bad boy"

And yes, Jay-Z is very, very smart. When he got Beyonce and some people were like "what?" and I was like, "Smart." Also, Biggie and Jay-Z went to the same high school. So did Busta Rhymes.

Mrs. Wallace is amazing. I remember her in the Nick Broomfield movie and thinking "what a regal woman". I've noticed that of a lot of women from the West Indies-just a grace and a presence. I remember one guy in the Broomfield movie telling him he was only talking for "Mrs. Wallace."

[Stowaway]

Well, I watched your nutty documentary, as instructed. I don't even know where to start. It's like everyone was under strict instructions to "yes, and" everything. Did Gesualdo kill his wife? Yes, and then a monk came along and fucked her corpse. Do you have any patients who think they're the reincarnation of Gesualdo's wife? Yes, and two more who think they're Gesualdo himself.

My favorite thing was after all the talk of Gesualdo being a devil, someone says, "Oh, 'devil' is just our local term for someone who's really smart." So was he possessed? Or was he the devil himself? Or was he just too smart to get along with people, like the main character in a twenty-first century procedural?

[MarkBlankenship]

Well, I watched your nutty documentary, as instructed. I don't even know where to start. It's like everyone was under strict instructions to "yes, and" everything. Did Gesualdo kill his wife? Yes, and then a monk came along and fucked her corpse. Do you have any patients who think they're the reincarnation of Gesualdo's wife? Yes, and two more who think they're Gesualdo himself.

My favorite thing was after all the talk of Gesualdo being a devil, someone says, "Oh, 'devil' is just our local term for someone who's really smart." So was he possessed? Or was he the devil himself? Or was he just too smart to get along with people, like the main character in a twenty-first century procedural?

I'd watch the hell out of that procedural. Even if it were on CBS.

[MarkBlankenship]

The thing I always loved about Biggie was that he was fat, blacker than tar and probably asthmatic (I hear it in the voice) and he's always like, "I'm here now. And I'm the King." His lyrics were always so poetic and clever, and angry. Phrasing, word choice.

"I wish moms would hurry up so I could get buck
Wild juvenile ripping mics and shit
New York, New York, ready for the likes of this
Then came the worst date, May 21st
2:19, that's when my momma water burst
No spouse in the house so she rode for self
To the hospital, to see if she could get a little help
Umbilical cord's wrapped around my neck
I'm seeing my death and I ain't even took my first step
I made it out, I'm bringing mad joy
The doctor looked and said, "He's going to be a bad boy"

And yes, Jay-Z is very, very smart. When he got Beyonce and some people were like "what?" and I was like, "Smart." Also, Biggie and Jay-Z went to the same high school. So did Busta Rhymes.

Mrs. Wallace is amazing. I remember her in the Nick Broomfield movie and thinking "what a regal woman". I've noticed that of a lot of women from the West Indies-just a grace and a presence. I remember one guy in the Broomfield movie telling him he was only talking for "Mrs. Wallace."

Fantastic Biggie lyric. Thanks for posting that, and for the rest of this excellence.

[bwiemann]

I was particularly captivated by the American musicologist giving his last talking head piece while standing next to Italian Ren-faire knights on horseback aiming for a jousting target.

[Stowaway]

On 8/31/2017 at 2:10 PM, MarkBlankenship said:

I'd watch the hell out of that procedural. Even if it were on CBS.

My first instinct was to say "yes," but then I remembered that Starz had a whole show about Leonardo Da Vinci that I never watched a single episode of.  So Imma give it a "maybe."

[txhorns79]

I'm bumping this, only because they just released Season 9 of Unsolved Mysteries on Amazon Prime, and one of the first segments is some very certain "experts" postulating as to whether Ted Kaczynski (the Unabomber) was also the Zodiac killer.  It was a very interesting segment, but you essentially have to ignore that Kaczynski did not really engage in Zodiac-style killings, and the similarities noted between the two are so general as to not be particularly noteworthy.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

HMM. (I mean, not really, but I'm glad the season's out. hee.)

[swimmyfish]

On 8/11/2017 at 8:56 AM, Sarah D. Bunting said:

Most of my intel prior to the Fincher movie came from John Douglas's The Cases That Haunt Us, which just assumes Cheri Jo Bates is part of the series, but now I'm not sure about that either. But once we've finished our Buntsy On Batey pilot :) Eve will definitely come back on to talk about Zodiac theories and other stuff.

I just finished that book - it was extremely interesting. Thanks for sharing the title!

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Oh, my pleasure! Just glad someone else will know my references to it now. :)

[Primetimer]

Netflix's new series chills Sarah D. Bunting and AB Chao with stories of false confessions, plus a surprisingly competent look at the Gary Plauche case from Investigation Discovery.

View the full article

[ReallySpecial]

I have a case suggestion.  How about Bonny Lee Bakley?  Her murder is still unsolved, but her widower (Robert Blake) was tried and acquitted.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Def. repost this in the suggestions thread!

[Nanna]

Great episode. I went ahead and watched the first two episodes of The Confession Tapes, and it's both heartbreaking and shocking. That the police would call that guy's job and make sure to ruin his life if he didn't testify was really ... I don't know what to say. On a positive note, it's very well made and def one of the better true crime shows out there.

[Hank3]

Have watched the first two episodes.  VERY Good.  Right up there with Making a Murderer and The Keepers.  Netflix is on a roll with these crime documentaries.  

I'm not sure what to think about the two youngins...if they indeed do the crime or not.  The second one, I didn't believe he was the killer.  Man, the interrogators have such a stronghold and persuasive tactics on these suspects sometimes.  

[bethster2000]

Sebastian Burns is a psychopath.

[formerlyfreedom]

I have a suggestion and a question; in reverse order, are you planning to watch American Vandal, which is dropping on Netflix on Friday? So far, I've heard good things about it, and I'm interested to see a good parody of the genre that I love so much. Probably not worth an entire segment on the podcast, but if you do watch it, I'd be interested in your take.

As far as a suggestion; SundanceTV is showing Cold Blooded: The Clutter Family Murders in November;

Quote

SundanceTV announced that its four-hour documentary series Cold Blooded: The Clutter Family Murders from Academy Award® nominee Joe Berlinger will air as a two-night special event on Sat., Nov. 18 and Sun., Nov. 19 starting at 9/8c. The series focuses on the infamous crime that shocked the nation and was chronicled in Truman Capote’s seminal book, In Cold Blood – the Nov. 15, 1959 brutal murder of four members of the Clutter family in their home in a small Kansas farming community, a crime seemingly without motive. An AMC Studios, RadicalMedia and Third Eye Motion Picture Company production, the true crime documentary takes a fresh in-depth look at the legendary case – digging into the resulting investigation, and the convictions and executions of Perry Smith and Richard Hickock

My mom, an Iowa raised farm girl, read Truman Capote's book around the time she got pregnant with me, while living alone in southern California when my dad was away in the service. She also read Rosemary's Baby when she was pregnant with me. Pretty sure this all explains a lot about how I turned out.