Supernatural Bitterness & Unpopular Opinions: You All Suck

[shang yiet]

If Sam or Dean were risking their lives to save little old me, I would definitely not talk back and wound their egos. I would be very grateful  and thank them politely lest they dump my ungrateful ass by the road.

[Pondlass1]

I don't know which topic this post should be posted at... probably here.  But I think Dean's legs are just as long as his brothers.  If you look hard enough... you can see that where Sam adds inches is in the torso.  He has a longer torso.

I think if they raced - it would be a tie.

Similarly in terms of arms and muscles and stuff.  Have you checked out Dean's shoulders lately?  

***As a card-carrying Dean girl I felt it necessary to point out the above. ?

[DeeDee79]

While we all can be biased depending on who our favorite happens to be ( mine being Dean ) there's no doubt that both brothers are heroic and tenacious when it comes to saving people and saving the world. They have both been shown to give up when the situation seems impossible but that's human nature not a weakness. Whoever happens to be the one to save the day in a particular story doesn't take away from the awesomeness of the brother that's in a supporting role at the time. IMHO.

[gonzosgirrl]

3 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

I don't know which topic this post should be posted at... probably here.  But I think Dean's legs are just as long as his brothers.  If you look hard enough... you can see that where Sam adds inches is in the torso.  He has a longer torso.

I think if they raced - it would be a tie.

Similarly in terms of arms and muscles and stuff.  Have you checked out Dean's shoulders lately?  

***As a card-carrying Dean girl I felt it necessary to point out the above. ?

And as Jensen points out, if his legs weren't bowed, Dean would be taller than Sam :p 

[Boopsahoy]

On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 10:15 AM, Pondlass1 said:

I don't know which topic this post should be posted at... probably here.  But I think Dean's legs are just as long as his brothers.  If you look hard enough... you can see that where Sam adds inches is in the torso.  He has a longer torso.

I think if they raced - it would be a tie.

Similarly in terms of arms and muscles and stuff.  Have you checked out Dean's shoulders lately?  

***As a card-carrying Dean girl I felt it necessary to point out the above. ?

I've heard/read that Jensen/Dean is the fastest. Wish I could remember the story!

[SueB]

On 6/22/2017 at 1:59 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

Reading @catrox14's post reminded me of some questions I've had for a while. Was Cain actually a demon? I think not, as we never saw him with black or (or red or white or yellow) eyes. And yet he was ostensibly the most twisted/tortured soul of all, tormented literally from the beginning of (human) time. He created (or I suppose, perfected is the more accurate term) the Knights of Hell, but he never passed the Mark on to them, so they were vulnerable to death. The Mark made Dean immortal, as it did Cain, but yet still vulnerable to a Devil's Trap (as was Cain) and holy water. So what was Dean, really, a hybrid? More than a Knight -- the new Cain? Why the black eyes then, or why did we never see them on Cain? I guess this is what makes it relevant to the UO/bitterness thread: the writers totally wasted Demon/Knight Dean by relegating him to three episodes.

Cain took the Mark as a human, tried to commit suicide rather than be a killer, and was kept alive     by the Mark.  As a demon. A Knight of Hell.  

Transcript:

Quote

You have to believe me. When I suggested you take on the Mark of Cain, I didn't know this was going to happen. Not really. I mean, I might not have told you the entire truth. But I never lied. I never lied, Dean. That's important. It's fundamental. But...there is one story about Cain that I might have... forgotten to tell you. Apparently, he, too, was willing to accept death, rather than becoming the killer the Mark wanted him to be. So he took his own life with the Blade. He died. Except, as rumor has it, the Mark never quite let go. You can understand why I never spoke of this. Why set hearts aflutter at mere speculation? It wasn't until you summoned me... No, it wasn't truly until you left that cheeseburger uneaten...that I began to let myself believe. Maybe miracles do come true.

[gonzosgirrl]

9 hours ago, SueB said:

Cain took the Mark as a human, tried to commit suicide rather than be a killer, and was kept alive     by the Mark.  As a demon. A Knight of Hell.  

Transcript:

I remember Crowley's speech, but he doesn't actually say Cain is a demon. I'm not even saying I don't think he is, but it's odd that we never see him with any eye-colour change. Has there been even on other demon on the show not identified this way? He was made immortal by the Mark, but does that automatically make him a demon? He trained the Knights of Hell, but he was clearly more than 'just' that himself.

ETA: Okay, from the First Born transcript:
 

Quote

 

CAIN: Abel wasn't talking to God. He was talking to Lucifer. Lucifer was gonna make my brother into his pet. I couldn't bear to watch him be corrupted, so I offered a deal -- Abel's soul in heaven for my soul in hell.

Lucifer accepted... As long as I was the one who sent Abel to heaven. So, I killed him. Became a soldier of Hell -- a knight.

DEAN: And Lucifer ordered you to make more.

CAIN:  My knights and I, we did horrible things -- for centuries. Bringers of chaos and darkness.

 

So Cain was a Knight, but he calls the others 'my knights', so he did create/train them. Abaddon was a demon & a Knight of Hell, so I suppose it can be assumed that Cain was also made a demon by his soul being condemned to Hell. It's still weird that they never once had him flash black eyes.

Edited June 27, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[DittyDotDot]

16 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I remember Crowley's speech, but he doesn't actually say Cain is a demon. I'm not even saying I don't think he is, but it's odd that we never see him with any eye-colour change. Has there been even on other demon on the show not identified this way? He was made immortal by the Mark, but does that automatically make him a demon? He trained the Knights of Hell, but he was clearly more than 'just' that himself.

Yeah, I'm not sure there was another demon we've seen that wasn't identified by some sort of eye color. It might be because Cain was basically an Alpha--the first Knight of Hell who made all the rest of the Knights--and the show didn't know what color eyes the Knights should have? It also could be that Cain wasn't created in the traditional tortured-in-Hell-for-centuries way but was made insta-demon due to the Mark? Or it could be that he wasn't possessing someone, but like Demon Dean was a demon in his own meatsuit--at least I think he was. Although, that doesn't explain why Dean had black eyes when he was created the same way and also not possessing someone. I don't know, probably more likely that the show didn't know what color eyes to give him, or didn't think it through. 

Anyway, according to Crowley in First Born, Cain was a demon. 

DEAN: All right, so, tell me about this Cain.
CROWLEY: Well, after Cain killed Abel, he became a demon.
DEAN: What do you mean "became a demon"?
CROWLEY: I mean he became the deadliest demon to walk the face of the earth. Killed thousands. The best at being the worst. And then he just... Disappeared. Everyone thought he was dead or, at least, hoped he was.

[gonzosgirrl]

19 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Yeah, I'm not sure there was another demon we've seen that wasn't identified by some sort of eye color. It might be because Cain was basically an Alpha--the first Knight of Hell who made all the rest of the Knights--and the show didn't know what color eyes the Knights should have? It also could be that Cain wasn't created in the traditional tortured-in-Hell-for-centuries way but was made insta-demon due to the Mark? Or it could be that he wasn't possessing someone, but like Demon Dean was a demon in his own meatsuit--at least I think he was. Although, that doesn't explain why Dean had black eyes when he was created the same way and also not possessing someone. I don't know, probably more likely that the show didn't know what color eyes to give him, or didn't think it through. 

Anyway, according to Crowley in First Born, Cain was a demon. 

DEAN: All right, so, tell me about this Cain.
CROWLEY: Well, after Cain killed Abel, he became a demon.
DEAN: What do you mean "became a demon"?
CROWLEY: I mean he became the deadliest demon to walk the face of the earth. Killed thousands. The best at being the worst. And then he just... Disappeared. Everyone thought he was dead or, at least, hoped he was.

Doh! I don't know how I missed that in the First Born transcript, esp. since I was specifically looking for it. Jeez. Thanks for that though. I guess it's most likely that they just didn't think the eye thing through.

It's not what I want(ed) for Dean, not at all, but how interesting it would be to see what Dean would've become without the cure. Would he have killed Crowley and taken over Hell? Or would that have been too restricting, too much paperwork, not enough killing? Or could he have eventually realized he could control his urges and be the uber-hunter, wiping out all the monsters he cared to? Or could he have done what Cain did for centuries and disavowed violence, going off to keep bees somewhere? Ahh, I guess that's what fanfic is for...

Edited June 27, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[DittyDotDot]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It's not what I want(ed) for Dean, not at all, but how interesting it would be to see what Dean would've become without the cure. Would he have killed Crowley and taken over Hell? Or would that have been too restricting, too much paperwork, not enough killing? Or could he have eventually realized he could control his urges and be the uber-hunter, wiping out all the monsters he cared to? Or could he have done what Cain did for centuries and disavowed violence, going off to keep bees somewhere? Ahh, I guess that's what fanfic is for...

Yeah, I don't know with Demon Dean, he didn't seem to have any large goals or anything, he was just doing whatever the fuck he felt like. I'm sure over time he would've tired of it, but I don't think he would've taken over Hell. I actually think it would've been cool if Demon Dean had marched into Hell and went on a killing spree down there, just for shits and giggles. What a great screw you that would've been to Crowley. I also always thought a fitting death for Crowley would've been Demon Dean killing him. It's really the only time I can think of where Crowley underestimated Dean, IMO.

[Pondlass1]

What's the consensus here on the boys' drinking and driving.  Has it ever been brought up for debate?  

One of my local channels runs Supernatural episodes everyday and inevitably a drinking & driving MADD ad shows up in the middle.  Then when the episode resumes we see Sam and Dean driving about with a green cooler full of beer.  They stop at the side of the road for a beer.

The ONLY time drinking and driving was referenced was during the - of all things -  Alcohol Ghost episode when Dean phones Sam at the bar and tells him to get a cab if he's been drinking.  Other than that Dean pretty much drives buzzed all the time.  

I like that the boys drink.  I'd drink too if I had their job. They'd top out the breathalyzer, but their systems (especially Dean's) are so immune to alcohol their reflexes, etc. would not be affected I wouldn't think. (Plus Dean gets a new shiny liver whenever he's angelically healed).

I'm just a bit surprised it's never criticized or brought up, tho.  TV is so very much PC these days.

[DittyDotDot]

2 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

What's the consensus here on the boys' drinking and driving.  Has it ever been brought up for debate?  

One of my local channels runs Supernatural episodes everyday and inevitably a drinking & driving MADD ad shows up in the middle.  Then when the episode resumes we see Sam and Dean driving about with a green cooler full of beer.  They stop at the side of the road for a beer.

The ONLY time drinking and driving was referenced was during the - of all things -  Alcohol Ghost episode when Dean phones Sam at the bar and tells him to get a cab if he's been drinking.  Other than that Dean pretty much drives buzzed all the time.  

I like that the boys drink.  I'd drink too if I had their job. They'd top out the breathalyzer, but their systems (especially Dean's) are so immune to alcohol their reflexes, etc. would not be affected I wouldn't think. (Plus Dean gets a new shiny liver whenever he's angelically healed).

I'm just a bit surprised it's never criticized or brought up, tho.  TV is so very much PC these days.

It's been brought up, I don't know which threads off the top of my head, though. I've just come to the conclusion Baby takes care of Sam and Dean... .

[Pondlass1]

2 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

the only time I can think of where Crowley underestimated Dean, IMO.

I never really got why Crowley thought he could team up with Demon Dean and run hell.  He watched Dean all those years and never picked up on the fact that Dean doesn't work well with others, especially UNDER someone.  Because Crowley was intending to remain King with Dean as good little sidekick.  And, anyway, Hell wasn't exactly Dean's favourite place to be was it? It's presented as pretty dire and boring and regimented.  Crowley had been on a 6 week pub crawl, doing what Dean wanted, following Dean's desires.  Even when he gave Dean an instruction, Dean didn't do it.  Crowley was never going to be able to manage Demon Dean.  He had cut off more than he could chew.  But he never picked up on that fact at the beginning of their summer of love.  I thought he was smarter.  But love does that, I guess?  We always think we can change or control someone. LOL

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Pondlass1 said:

I'm just a bit surprised it's never criticized or brought up, tho.  TV is so very much PC these days.

Dean's drinking discussions are in the Dean thread and I think the All Seasons thread for the most part. There was a discussion in The Raid episode thread...mostly spawned by my musings.

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, Pondlass1 said:

One of my local channels runs Supernatural episodes everyday and inevitably a drinking & driving MADD ad shows up in the middle.  Then when the episode resumes we see Sam and Dean driving about with a green cooler full of beer.  They stop at the side of the road for a beer.

The ONLY time drinking and driving was referenced was during the - of all things -  Alcohol Ghost episode when Dean phones Sam at the bar and tells him to get a cab if he's been drinking.  Other than that Dean pretty much drives buzzed all the time.  

Well, driving with a cooler of beer isn't illegal, as long as none of the cans/bottles are open (it's illegal even to drive with an open container of alcohol in the car, which I assume is why they always pull over to drink).  IIRC, the only time we see the boys drink anything while driving, it's through straws  in cups from fast-food joints, so we can assume it's soda.  Maybe the writers want us to think that the boys will take a nap/wait a while after their side-of-the-road drinks before heading out again?  :) 

I seem to remember one ep (can't remember which one) when, at their usual "wrap up around the cooler" talk, Bobby handed them root beer, and when they questioned it, he said something like "you're driving, right?"  So maybe that was the show's nod to PC, and they figured once was enough.  

Edited June 27, 2017 by ahrtee
redundancy

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Pondlass1 said:

I never really got why Crowley thought he could team up with Demon Dean and run hell.  He watched Dean all those years and never picked up on the fact that Dean doesn't work well with others, especially UNDER someone.  Because Crowley was intending to remain King with Dean as good little sidekick.  And, anyway, Hell wasn't exactly Dean's favourite place to be was it? It's presented as pretty dire and boring and regimented.  Crowley had been on a 6 week pub crawl, doing what Dean wanted, following Dean's desires.  Even when he gave Dean an instruction, Dean didn't do it.  Crowley was never going to be able to manage Demon Dean.  He had cut off more than he could chew.  But he never picked up on that fact at the beginning of their summer of love.  I thought he was smarter.  But love does that, I guess?  We always think we can change or control someone. LOL

The following is my head!canon:

Crowley turned Dean into a demon out of revenge for he and Sam doing the blood cure on him and not finishing it, which essentially made him into a human blood junkie with

 

I honestly thought that was why Crowley said the line of "See what I see. FEEL what I feel". He could make Dean into the thing he never wanted to be like Dean and Sam made Crowley into a thing he never wanted to be again.  Those FEELINGS made him want a pal and IMO he figured Dean would be more fun to carouse with than Sam. Then, it dawned on Crowley that "Oh shit, I just made Dean into the most powerful entity non-god status so I better make sure I keep him in check by feeding his bloodlust".

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

[SueB]

Can we take driving while drinking and anything more regarding Crowley feelings to the "All Episode Thread".  I'm sensing nothing bitter or unpopular opinion here.  

 

... taking my response to Crowley teaming up with Dean into "All Seasons".

Edited June 27, 2017 by SueB

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, SueB said:

Can we take driving while drinking and anything more regarding Crowley feelings to the "All Episode Thread".  I'm sensing nothing bitter or unpopular opinion here.  

 

... taking my response to Crowley teaming up with Dean into "All Seasons".

I was just replying with my headcanon as to why Crowley did what did. . I wasn't arguing with anyone or trying to get anyone to see it my way. Sorry if my reply came across that way. Wasn't my intention at all.

I guess my opinion could be considered unpopular since the show never really did explain why Crowley did what he did, so head!canon it is for me.

Edited June 27, 2017 by catrox14

[gonzosgirrl]

12 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Dean's my favorite but I like Cas a lot too and Sam--BUT I just disagree with how some fans think Dean does nothing anymore.  He does as much as Sam and more than everyone else.  For years I hear Sam fans say Sam is disrespected, Dean fans that Dean is disrespected and same for Cas and Cas fans.  From my perspective in all 3 cases they are wildly overstated.  It's just common among a sliver of fans to bemoan their favorite and how he's treated on the show.  YES they can write ALL 3 better but they aren't picking on them imo.

From the Spoilers & Spec thread. Maybe it could've gone to Bitch vs Jerk thread, but given Cas is included, it's probably a better fit here.  IMO, the only people who should rightly be more fed up with Dabb & Co. this season than Dean fans, are Cas fans. Dean was inexplicably absent and randomly neutered for a good portion of too many episodes this season. Cas was all those things, and kind of dumb as well, (criminally naive at the least) beginning with letting Baby Mama walk out of the diner and ending... well, I don't think it really ended at all. But at the end of the day (and here lies the probably UO) Cas/Misha is not a lead, and Dean/Jensen is.

When somebody can give me a plausible reason why Dean disappeared at the climax of American Nightmare, without head-canon or suspension of disbelief, or time-bending manipulations, or even a good reason why Sam was given not only his second Hellhound kill (to Dean's none) but a big bad kill using Michael's weapon, or why Sam (or Mary) was handed every big bad kill save the one that was turned into a running joke (Hitler), then maybe I'll begin to accept that Dean as a character wasn't horribly under-served this season. Even when Dean got to kill the witch in Regarding Dean, he didn't know what he was doing, except following post it notes left by Sam and Rowena. So yeah. Even that episode was brilliant because of Jensen's performance, not due to great writing and certainly not by the editing.

[Katy M]

17 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

(and here lies the probably UO) Cas/Misha is not a lead, and Dean/Jensen is.

I don't see how that could be a UO.  It's not even an O(pinion) at all.  It's a F(act).

[Aeryn13]

Quote

IMO, the only people who should rightly be more fed up with Dabb & Co. this season than Dean fans, are Cas fans. 

To be fair, I could also see how Crowley fans would wanna douse themselves with gasoline and light a fire after Season 12. Though at least they are free which could constitute as a mercy-killing. 

And Mary-fans, hm. I think the character was liked much better before this Season, before familiarity bred contempt. At this time, I`d have to say that the most evil thing Amara ever did on the show was to bring Mary back to life. Now THAT was the darkness even Death seemed to be quaking in fear about. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by Aeryn13

[ILoveReading]

19 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

When somebody can give me a plausible reason why Dean disappeared at the climax of American Nightmare, without head-canon or suspension of disbelief, or time-bending manipulations, or even a good reason why Sam was given not only his second Hellhound kill (to Dean's none) but a big bad kill using Michael's weapon, or why Sam (or Mary) was handed every big bad kill save the one that was turned into a running joke (Hitler), then maybe I'll begin to accept that Dean as a character wasn't horribly under-served this season. Even when Dean got to kill the witch in Regarding Dean, he didn't know what he was doing, except following post it notes left by Sam and Rowena. So yeah. Even that episode was brilliant because of Jensen's performance, not due to great writing and certainly not by the editing.

I'd also like an explanation as to why Dean suddenly can't fight, hold onto a weapon, or research.

Unpopular opinion but they went way overboard on Sam finding all the answers, Sam's got it, Sam's working on it, and Sam can you fix this gun stuff. 

[Wayward Son]

My UO is that the biggest issue for the writing for Castiel is that while Misha / Cas is not a lead the show likes to try and treat him like one. They have set up side characters specifically for his storylines as opposed to Sam and Dean's such as Hannah. They've set up storylines such as the heavenly civil war in s6 and s9 for Castiel, they've done his fall to humanity and acclimation in s9. The problem is that they set him up with lead worthy storylines. However, he isn't a lead and so they will only give them half the time, if even, and support they need to be told properly leading to them being rushed and told in a haphazard unsatisfying manner. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by Wayward Son

[gonzosgirrl]

5 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I don't see how that could be a UO.  It's not even an O(pinion) at all.  It's a F(act).

It is, but in this new world of alternative facts...   I've seen it asserted by fans in more than one place.

 

Of all the insults to Dean and his history this season, I think the Hellhound thing may have bugged me the most. They use 'parity' as the reason that Sam killed the YED, yet this is now the  second HH that Sam has killed. And not only do they not even allude to the fact that Dean was killed by one, and maybe a little payback would have been good for him, they didn't even include it in the fucking previouslies. But you know what they did manage to find? Dean laying on the ground while Sam killed the HH in Trial and Error.

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It is, but in this new world of alternative facts...   I've seen it asserted by fans in more than one place.

 

Of all the insults to Dean and his history this season, I think the Hellhound thing may have bugged me the most. They use 'parity' as the reason that Sam killed the YED, yet this is now the  second HH that Sam has killed. And not only do they not even allude to the fact that Dean was killed by one, and maybe a little payback would have been good for him, they didn't even include it in the fucking previouslies. But you know what they did manage to find? Dean laying on the ground while Sam killed the HH in Trial and Error.

That was one of my biggest problems with this seasons (among many) was that Dean's past was all but erased.   Nothing about his connections to hellhounds or to Michael, or his time in hell.  The only hell mention was used to degrade his experince there even further.

It's why I have the unpopular opinion that Dabb has little to know use for Dean.  But that is probably more bitch/jerk.

[catrox14]

I think Cas is a major supporting character and Misha is a borderline lead. If he was in more episodes maybe he'd be more formally a lead? I dunno, it's a peculiar space Cas/Misha occupy in the show. Like I really can't imagine him no longer on the show after this amount of time. And he's now been in more episodes than anyone other than J2 but he isn't in every episode so...I dunno. Do they have something like a part-time lead??? LOL

Edited July 3, 2017 by catrox14
ETA I THINK CAS IS A MAJOR SUPPORTING CHARACTER! DON'T YELL AT ME

[Wayward Son]

6 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I don't think Cas is a major supporting character and Misha is a borderline lead. If he was in more episodes maybe he'd be more formally a lead? I dunno, it's a peculiar space Cas/Misha occupy in the show. Like I really can't imagine him no longer on the show after this amount of time. And he's now been in more episodes than anyone other than J2 but he isn't in every episode so...I dunno. Do they have something like a part-time lead??? LOL

Yep, like I mentioned in a post above IMO basically the show wants to treat him like a lead (giving him his own independent storylines in terms of mytharc and personal developments) except when they don't want to treat him like a lead! Which is also the cause of the poor writing for him over the years because they set up big storylines they aren't prepared to handle with the time and effort needed to tell them properly. 

[ILoveReading]

35 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

My UO is that the biggest issue for the writing for Castiel is that while Misha / Cas is not a lead the show likes to try and treat him like one. They have set up side characters specifically for his storylines as opposed to Sam and Dean's such as Hannah. They've set up storylines such as the heavenly civil war in s6 and s9 for Castiel, they've done his fall to humanity and acclimation in s9. The problem is that they set him up with lead worthy storylines. However, he isn't a lead and so they will only give them half the time, if even, and support they need to be told properly leading to them being rushed and told in a haphazard unsatisfying manner. 

I agree with what your saying about Cas. 

I also think this applies to Dean's storylines too.   Which are often dropped, backburned or underdeveloped.

I think a large problem with the writers is that they seem to struggle with multiple storylines and can only really do one thing at a time but they aren't sure which area to focus on so everything ends up a haphazard mess we got for s12.  No story line was really given the focus that it should have.

I think they should just do one storyline that contains all characters and concentrate on telling it well.  But this season we will have the set up for Wayward Whatever, Jack, Lucifer/Mary, Cas's death, and the AU's.  It's most likely too much for these writers to handle so I figure this season will probably be very similar to s12 in that regard.  With most of the focus going toward the spin off set up.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Wayward Son said:

Yep, like I mentioned in a post above IMO basically the show wants to treat him like a lead (giving him his own independent storylines in terms of mytharc and personal developments) except when they don't want to treat him like a lead! Which is also the cause of the poor writing for him over the years because they set up big storylines they aren't prepared to handle with the time and effort needed to tell them properly. 

Just to be clear I corrected myself. I meant that Cas IS a major supporting character.

[Wayward Son]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Just to be clear I corrected myself. I meant that Cas IS a major supporting character.

Haha, I actually thought that's what you meant! My response was an agreement with you and further thoughts on why I think that way haha

[catrox14]

Just now, Wayward Son said:

Haha, I actually thought that's what you meant! My response was an agreement with you and further thoughts on why I think that way haha

Okey dokey!

[trxr4kids]

18 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Okey dokey!

Hee! You said okey dokey one of my favorite Dean lines. Sorry please resume the usual bitterness while I try to remember to stay on topic.

[catrox14]

Just now, trxr4kids said:

Hee! You said okey dokey one of my favorite Dean lines. Sorry please resume the usual bitterness while I try to remember to stay on topic.

Hee. That's why I said it. LOL

[Wayward Son]

My unpopular opinion is that I hope Jensen doesn't make an appearance in Deadpool 2 or anything else major before the show ends! The same with Misha and Jared.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Wayward Son

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

My unpopular opinion is that I hope Jensen doesn't make an appearance in Deadpool 2 or anything else major before the show ends! The same with Misha and Jared.

I'm just curious why not? Not that it matters just wondering.

[Wayward Son]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

I'm just curious why not? Not that it matters just wondering.

Since I think the show only has a few years left in it Id rather they all remained fully focused on it until the end. I wouldn't want to see their dedication / interest waiver towards the finish line because they're only half in and half focused on other projects. Just my UO.

[catrox14]

Just now, Wayward Son said:

Since I think the show only has a few years left in it Id rather they all remained fully focused on it until the end. I wouldn't want to see their dedication / interest waiver towards the finish line because they're only half in and half focused on other projects. Just my UO.

I get what you mean. I guess I don't see that being a worry since it didn't seem to matter when Jared filmed Gilmore Girls and did the promo stuff and the GG panel at ATX which was in February 2017, nor when Misha filmed Timeless last season, at least not that I could tell.  

Hypothetically if Jensen was doing DP2 this summer, which he's obviously not (that's my squirrely head!canon), DP2 won't be released until June 2018, so I would think press etc wouldn't be a thing he'd have to do until like May 2018 which is after SPN is done filming.

[MysteryGuest]

Jensen made 10 Inch Hero while working on SPN, didn't he?  Of course, that was back at the beginning of the series, and not almost at the end.  I hear what you're saying, Wayward Son, but I personally think that if their interest is wavering, it's because of the decline in writing.  I don't think Mark Sheppard is the only one who thinks the writing has gotten bad, he's just the only one who can talk about it openly.

I'm honestly hoping the new writers have gotten their sea legs, so to speak, and will be able to write some really great episodes.  As has been said before, with the supernatural theme, there's almost no limit to what they could do, other than budget constraints.  I want them to really go for it this year.  The show has done some very memorable episodes over the years, and I'd love for them to have a few more of those before they're finished.

[catrox14]

29 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Jensen made 10 Inch Hero while working on SPN, didn't he?  Of course, that was back at the beginning of the series, and not almost at the end.  I hear what you're saying, Wayward Son, but I personally think that if their interest is wavering, it's because of the decline in writing.  I don't think Mark Sheppard is the only one who thinks the writing has gotten bad, he's just the only one who can talk about it openly.

I'm honestly hoping the new writers have gotten their sea legs, so to speak, and will be able to write some really great episodes.  As has been said before, with the supernatural theme, there's almost no limit to what they could do, other than budget constraints.  I want them to really go for it this year.  The show has done some very memorable episodes over the years, and I'd love for them to have a few more of those before they're finished.

Jensen did My Bloody Valentine 3D  and Jared did Friday the 13th in 2009, I'm assuming between s4 and s5. Maybe they did them thinking the show was coming to an end in s5 since Kripke was leaving and they were both thinking past SPN then. Maybe that's why Jared and Misha took roles in GG and Timeless recently. I dunno. I don't think their other projects would really disrupt their focus on the show myself, especially not after 12 seasons. They could probably do it with their eyes closed at this point.

[MysteryGuest]

I'm thinking the only reason they haven't taken other jobs is simply a scheduling thing.  It would be pretty tough for them to work through their summer hiatus, especially now that they have young families.  I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens after SPN comes to an end.  

[Wayward Son]

10 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

Jensen made 10 Inch Hero while working on SPN, didn't he?  Of course, that was back at the beginning of the series, and not almost at the end.  I hear what you're saying, Wayward Son, but I personally think that if their interest is wavering, it's because of the decline in writing.  I don't think Mark Sheppard is the only one who thinks the writing has gotten bad, he's just the only one who can talk about it openly.

I'm honestly hoping the new writers have gotten their sea legs, so to speak, and will be able to write some really great episodes.  As has been said before, with the supernatural theme, there's almost no limit to what they could do, other than budget constraints.  I want them to really go for it this year.  The show has done some very memorable episodes over the years, and I'd love for them to have a few more of those before they're finished.

I guess another UO of mine is that the writing this year was no worse than what has come before! S12 was a lot better IMO than seasons 6, 8 and 9 for instance. IMO J2M aren't the type to quit / lose interest over bad writing or they'd have left long ago. Actually I lost some (not all!) respect for them over it! I've always admired actors, such as Sarah Michelle Gellar, who can see when a show is beginning to decline and quit while it's still decent rather than allow it to go on and on and on. 

Edited July 5, 2017 by Wayward Son

[gonzosgirrl]

3 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

I guess another UO of mine is that the writing this year was no worse than what has come before! S12 was a lot better IMO than seasons 6, 8 and 9 for instance. IMO J2M aren't the type to quit / lose interest over bad writing or they'd have left long ago. Actually I lost some (not all!) respect for them over it! I've always admired actors, such as Sarah Michelle Gellar, who can see when a show is beginning to decline and quit while it's still decent rather than allow it to go on and on and on. 

I have never understood this. Hollywood/entertainment is a very fickle business. To say there is no guarantee of another job, especially a lead on a series, is not just understatement - it's probably even the antithesis of the reality. Most actors don't get a second great role on television. And yes, there are exceptions of course, but the vast majority of actors don't even get one lead role, never mind more. And even fewer tv actors go on to major film success. It's all very well and lofty to say, oh they should walk away, but I don't see many people doing that in other jobs, and at the end of the day, that's what it is - a job. Personally, I respect them more for sticking with it, being loyal to the show and supporting a few hundred other people who are employed by it.

[DittyDotDot]

40 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Personally, I respect them more for sticking with it, being loyal to the show and supporting a few hundred other people who are employed by it.

I'd guess it would be a huge responsibility to Jared and Jensen knowing that if they walk away, so many others will be out of work too. Which, is not their responsibility given the fickle business they're in, but after all the years of working with these people, they're more than co-workers, they're family. That would be hard to walk away from, I'd think.

Anyway, I'm fine with any of them taking on extra projects if they can make it work. There's more to life than just this little show. I want them to do whatever they want to do...well, as long as it's legal and such. ;)

[Katy M]

Or, maybe, they don't hate the show as much as all the viewers do.  I find it a little harder to understand why people (and apparently nobody but a few of us still even like this show) would watch a show they don't like anymore. There's no paycheck in it for them.

[Pondlass1]

I don't know that Jared's all that enthusiastic any more.  I think Jensen is and will definitely seek out and audition for other roles (main roles) and we'll continue to see him on our screens (TV or movie).  I'm quite excited to see Jensen play someone else actually.

SMG was perfect as Buffy, I loved that show.   The actress really isn't all that strong, tho, and hasn't done much else since.  I think both Jensen and Jared are head & shoulders better actors, but I see Jensen as having the thirst and Jared not so much.

My UO. :)

[ahrtee]

I think they're both tired, but Jared doesn't handle the stress as well and needs more time to just hang with family and relax.  I think they're both working very hard to set up other businesses so that they won't have to work such long hours and to give their families some stability for the future, and probably would like to take some time off once SPN ends.  The danger with that, of course, is losing whatever recognition they have now and also that they're already aging out of the action/hero roles they've been aiming at.  

When SPN ends, Jensen will already be 40; and with so much TV focus on teen heroes, that would probably put him in the "dad" role (like John Schneider, who, after being a major teen heartthrob on Dukes of Hazzard, became Superman's dad by the time he was 40).  And while I have no problem with father figures, they usually are only side characters, and I selfishly would like more for Jensen.  

My UO is that I hope that Jensen would audition for roles in more serious movies instead of staying with action or genre films, even if he has to start with small roles to get credibility.  I think Jared might be more content to stay with his other businesses and family and only do occasional acting roles but not anything too stressful or demanding.  Again, JMO.    

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, Katy M said:

Or, maybe, they don't hate the show as much as all the viewers do.  I find it a little harder to understand why people (and apparently nobody but a few of us still even like this show) would watch a show they don't like anymore. There's no paycheck in it for them.

I love this stupid show and yes I often wonder why I keep watching when I do get my hackles up about something. At this point I'm invested and I want to see it through to the end. And I'll still remark on things that bother me much the same as I'll remark on the things that I love. I don't think anyone here really outright hate watches. Or if they do, I can't tell by the commentary.

[gonzosgirrl]

42 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I love this stupid show and yes I often wonder why I keep watching when I do get my hackles up about something. At this point I'm invested and I want to see it through to the end. And I'll still remark on things that bother me much the same as I'll remark on the things that I love.

Me too. I have big problems with the writing for Dean in the last two seasons, and I hate what they did to Crowley, but I still love the show. And as long as Jensen is there, I will watch.

I do believe that the guys aren't thrilled with the writing of late - their almost complete lack of enthusiasm over it on social media and at cons speaks loudly, at least to me. But I also believe one thing without a doubt: Nobody loves Dean and Sam more than Jensen and Jared. Nobody.

Edited July 5, 2017 by gonzosgirrl

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Me too. I have big problems with the writing for Dean in the last two seasons, and I hate what they did to Crowley, but I still love the show. And as long as Jensen is there, I will watch.

I do believe that the guys aren't thrilled with the writing of late - their almost complete lack of enthusiasm over it on social media and at cons speaks loudly, at least to me. But I also believe one thing without a doubt: Nobody loves Dean and Sam more than Jensen and Jared. Nobody.

I don't know if they are unenthusiastic or they are just never asked questions about the show anymore so they don't bring it up themselves other than "Did you like the last episode" etc. It seems like more show questions are asked at JIBcon these days than Creation Cons which seem to be congoers asking life advice, or what's your favorite scene. I'd love for congoers to start asking more hard core show questions. But that's just me.

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, ahrtee said:

When SPN ends, Jensen will already be 40; and with so much TV focus on teen heroes, that would probably put him in the "dad" role (like John Schneider, who, after being a major teen heartthrob on Dukes of Hazzard, became Superman's dad by the time he was 40).  And while I have no problem with father figures, they usually are only side characters, and I selfishly would like more for Jensen.  

Male actors don't get sent out to pasture at 40 these days. I think J2M are heartthrobs that appeal to all ages and genders . MO, it was really only the CW that had that weird age thing but even then 40 doesn't seem to matter to the CW that much either for meaty supporting roles in the Arrowverse.

John Barrowman, for instance, just turned 50 and has played Malcolm Merlyn for 5 seasons. That's a critical supporting character for Oliver Queen. He had a lot of action sequences, heavy drama, fights and a really good stunt double LOL.  David Ramsey, Paul Blackthorne and Manu Bennett are in their 40s . Tom Cavanaugh and Jesse L Martin are in the 40s on the Flash playing meaningful supporting characters.  So even if Jensen wasn't necessarily a lead, he could get a cool supporting role with that awesome "and" credit. (BRUCE WAYNE, I'm just saying).  IMO it totally depends on the network etc. I'd like to see him move to some kind of prestige cable show where the writing would befit his talents.

35 to 45 seems to be a prime age for male actors to do action roles. For instance Matt Damon, Ben Affleck, Chris Evans, Chris Pratt, Chris Pine and Ryan Reynolds are all in their late 30's and and 40's. RDJ is in his fifties still playing Tony Stark. Heck JDM is like 45 now playing the main villain on The Walking Dead.  At any rate Jensen IMO looks 35  and seems to be in tip top shape. . IMO, Jensen wouldn't have any trouble at all finding work at 40 in a good action movie, a new TV show or a small independent film.  He's not dead, yet! :).