S03.E08: All the Wilburys

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Axe tries for a fresh start at Axe Capital. Chuck asserts his political autonomy—and wrestles with whether to honor his word to a friend. Taylor asks for more independence at Axe Capital. Lara and Axe negotiate a new arrangement regarding Lara's money. Connerty adjusts to an uncomfortable situation.

Will Connerty's uncomfortable situation feature a naked man?  We know how uncomfortable that makes him.

[janeta]

Surely Chuck and Wendy didn’t expect the kink to stay secret?

Oh Bill, should have just stayed in your seat... I was hoping to not have to see Spiros anymore.

Wow, Lara's getting all whiny about those zillions of dollars she’s got.....

[dwmarch]

Since I work in a billing department it was satisfying to see Axe confronting Lara with "you didn't read the fine print, did you?" And who wants to bet that the contract she signed without looking at gives her a discount on fees at some other significant price? Folks, always read the fine print!

I appreciated how Chuck got so worked up when firing Connerty that spittle was actually flying. But Connerty is a bulldog and if he's free from the constraints of government service... well, I don't think he'd do as poorly at Axe Capital as Spiros.

Speaking of Spiros, is there any way that his inside information isn't a trap for Dollar Bill? Not a legal trap, just a way to get Dollar Bill chasing bad investments. Same with Axe and Danny Strong's character. All of a sudden your enemies want to make nice and help you?

Taylor was pissed but they must realize a billion dollars is a big ask. Take what Axe gives you, parlay that into a billion and go from there. At least they got a new car out of the deal. That is an interesting progression since when we first met Taylor they were offended by the pedestrian trappings of too much money. Looks like they have gotten over it!

[scrb]

Axe fires Spiros, Rhoads fires Connerty.

Spiros manages to leech his way back into Axe Capital while Bryan is ghosted by Sacker, his former paramour, and sprayed on by Chuck as he's kicked out of SDNY.

Lara pulls out her claws for Wendy but Bobby declaws her -- he won't spend time with the kids but he won't let Lara take them away from him either.

Chuck got caught in a sting by Black Jack so he stung him back while Wendy cockblocked Daddy Rhoads.

Taylor used to Occupy Wall Street but now her occupation is Wall Street.  She wants to run a legit book while Chuck smirks at all the inside info. people are pushing on him.  Inducement to profit?

 

The world of Billions is same as it ever was.  Bobby already had fuck you money so now he wants to be "too big to be fucked with" while Chuck wants to fight for the little guy as US Attorney since Wendy says it's his passion -- more like it's the hard-on he has for Bobby, wait until he finds out about the natural gas trades and the SEC info. Spiros is feeding to Dollar Bill.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Oy, the title of this episode should've been "Making Enemies Left and Right."

[ahpny]

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The world of Billions is same as it ever was.

In many ways yes, but I’m puzzled how the main theme of the entire series can continue. How can Chuck continue to fight Axe - the core of the show - given their rather egregious conspiracy (which also  invoked the 3d main character Wendy?) 

Also, how could Axe Cap have hired such dweeb like Spiros in the first place? I don’t recall how be was introduced to the series. Yes. I know they needed to look squeaky clean, but the cost of Spiro’s “never-Willburiness” would seem just too high.

[Lemons]

6 hours ago, ahpny said:

In many ways yes, but I’m puzzled how the main theme of the entire series can continue. How can Chuck continue to fight Axe - the core of the show - given their rather egregious conspiracy (which also  invoked the 3d main character Wendy?) 

Also, how could Axe Cap have hired such dweeb like Spiros in the first place? I don’t recall how be was introduced to the series. Yes. I know they needed to look squeaky clean, but the cost of Spiro’s “never-Willburiness” would seem just too high.

I’m glad The whole race for Governor is gone.  Since Axe is back to his illegal activities I think the fight to get axe can start fresh.  

[Carl Malone]

Seems to me all the pieces are in place for Axe and Chuck to team up. Axe finances Chucks political campaign and Chuck wields his power to shield Axe. Long shot, but I would watch it.

[txhorns79]

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Lara pulls out her claws for Wendy but Bobby declaws her -- he won't spend time with the kids but he won't let Lara take them away from him either.

This really upset me.  I don't even like Lara that much, but Axe is truly an awful, awful person.  It's one thing for Axe and Lara to snipe at each other while they divorce, but he's just so shitty with regards to his kids.  The sheer pettiness of humiliating Lara by having a deal already drawn up based on his knowledge of how she would negotiate, followed by making a big deal of the kids not being able to be taken away, followed then by Axe abandoning them to a secretary so he can literally just sit at his desk longer than Taylor makes me want someone to just punch his smug face. 

And I'm honestly shocked that Connerty didn't immediately resign after he had to dismiss the charges against Axe, and recognized he could not pursue the case against Chuck.  I mean, how did he think he could remain employed there? 

However, I did very much enjoy Wendy's scene with Chuck Sr.   Maggie Siff is awesome. 

And just for the fun of it, Deborah Rush, who play's Chuck's mother, is only 14 years older than Paul Giamatti in real life. 

[didhugh]

10 hours ago, ahpny said:

Also, how could Axe Cap have hired such dweeb like Spiros in the first place? I don’t recall how be was introduced to the series. Yes. I know they needed to look squeaky clean, but the cost of Spiro’s “never-Willburiness” would seem just too high.

Spiros was the one who first noticed trading irregularities involving Axe while he was at the SEC and brought the case to Chuck.  If I remember correctly, he actually had to goad and taunt Chuck into starting the investigation.

 

20 hours ago, scrb said:

The world of Billions is same as it ever was.  Bobby already had fuck you money so now he wants to be "too big to be fucked with" while Chuck wants to fight for the little guy as US Attorney since Wendy says it's his passion -- more like it's the hard-on he has for Bobby, wait until he finds out about the natural gas trades and the SEC info. Spiros is feeding to Dollar Bill.

One of the things that's always bugged me about the show is its portrayal of Chuck.  To me, it can't seem to decide whether he's a zealous and ruthless prosecutor who sometimes goes over the line in pursuit of true bad guys, or whether he's just as bad as Axe but just happens to be on the "right" side, and it's not that it's drawing him in shades of gray and letting the viewer decide, it's that the characterization to me seems to actively swing back and forth.  In the first season, to me he was an ambitious USA wanting a big win. both so he could help his career and to strike a blow in cleaning up Wall Street, which led him right up to the line, and then when his ego got involved over it.  In Season 2, to me, the show seemed to me to show him going full-on over it and was intending to show that Chuck and Axe really were morally equivalent.  This season, they seem to have drawn back and made Chuck back in to the lawyer's equivalent of the cowboy cop who sometimes bends the rules because they're so committed to justice and getting the bad guy, so much so that I don't think they're acknowledging just how much ego is involved here.  

Also - does anyone else think Connerty looks like Ted Cruz?  

[Mileman]

I just cover my eyes every single time Spyros is on screen. The actor is that good playing such an idiot.

The oh captain my captain crap...come on...

[hoodooznoodooz]

14 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

This really upset me.  I don't even like Lara that much, but Axe is truly an awful, awful person.  It's one thing for Axe and Lara to snipe at each other while they divorce, but he's just so shitty with regards to his kids.  The sheer pettiness of humiliating Lara by having a deal already drawn up based on his knowledge of how she would negotiate, followed by making a big deal of the kids not being able to be taken away, followed then by Axe abandoning them to a secretary so he can literally just sit at his desk longer than Taylor makes me want someone to just punch his smug face.  

I had this exact reaction. So petty. So competitive. The sons have been suffering. For what? Axe’s ego. 

Minor, but it also irritated me that he told the secretary to order the boys every dessert in the restaurant. 

It was interesting how Gordie told Wendy, “Everyone keeps telling us, ‘It’s not your fault. It’s nothing you boys have done.’ I wasn’t even thinking it was our fault. . . . until they started saying that.”

[hoodooznoodooz]

23 hours ago, ahpny said:

Also, how could Axe Cap have hired such dweeb like Spiros in the first place? I don’t recall how be was introduced to the series. Yes. I know they needed to look squeaky clean, but the cost of Spiro’s “never-Willburiness” would seem just too high.

He is a dweeb. But I think Wags is a dweeb, too. I don’t know if we’re supposed to think he’s slick, but IMO he tries too hard, with all the references to sex and a lot of the other stuff, too.

[txhorns79]

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He is a dweeb. But I think Wags is a dweeb, too. I don’t know if we’re supposed to think he’s slick, but IMO he tries too hard, with all the references to sex and a lot of the other stuff, too.

Both Wags and Spiros are different versions of someone who tries too hard to be cool.  I don't know how Axe hasn't gotten tired of Wags, but I suppose Wags can help set up orgy nights at Axe's home, so there is that. 

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Minor, but it also irritated me that he told the secretary to order the boys every dessert in the restaurant. 

 

Yeah, it's just throwing money at the problem with the hope it will go away.  As the kids get older, the dessert will turn into a car, then some exotic trip around the world, then perhaps millions of dollars set aside in a trust fund, a home or a job, but it's all just variations of the same thing.   

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It was interesting how Gordie told Wendy, “Everyone keeps telling us, ‘It’s not your fault. It’s nothing you boys have done.’ I wasn’t even thinking it was our fault. . . . until they started saying that.”

 

It was an interesting moment.  I thought Lara was right to be upset, as Wendy was over-stepping with Gordie, but I did see Wendy as honestly trying to be helpful, even if she didn't handle things in the right way. 

[scrb]

Wags will always be Gale, who made perfect coffee using his nerdy chemistry chops.

What was it a Japanese opera he was singing when he answered the door for Jesse Pinkman?

[ahpny]

19 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I thought Lara was right to be upset, as Wendy was over-stepping with Gordie, but I did see Wendy as honestly trying to be helpful, even if she didn't handle things in the right way.

But what was the “right way?” Wendy was pretty much in an impossible situation. Through Lara’s neglect, Gordon was wandering around unsupervised and visibly quite upset. Gordon sought out “Aunt Wendy” - perhaps the only Axe employee he knew, or at least liked. Gordon walked into her office. Was she supposed to flee wordlessly or shoo him away because she’s on “team Bobby” or because as a professional she can’t a “treat” a minor patient without parental consent? Even if she politely and child-appropriately explained even some of this to Gordon, if Lara walked in on that conversation, her reaction would likely have been equally vicious and just as damaging to Gordon. There was really no good play for Wendy here. She tried to help in a small way. At least Gordon knows someone is looking out for him and sees the situation from his perspective.

Wendy can’t reach Lara. But she can talk some sense into Axe. Maybe some good will come from that.

[txhorns79]

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But what was the “right way?” Wendy was pretty much in an impossible situation.

I'm sure Wendy is smart enough to be able to engage with Gordon in a way where it doesn't turn into a quasi-therapy session.  I mean, it isn't as though Wendy is unaware of how Lara feels about her, and what the reaction would be if Lara walked in on this situation.  

[PBSLover]

On 5/15/2018 at 9:20 AM, txhorns79 said:

Yeah, it's just throwing money at the problem with the hope it will go away.  As the kids get older, the dessert will turn into a car, then some exotic trip around the world, then perhaps millions of dollars set aside in a trust fund, a home or a job, but it's all just variations of the same thing.

Unfortunately, this is true in real life so the writing here is spot on.  Axe was originally written as loving his boys and wanting them with him as often as possible. He’s way more fucked up this season. 

[Pop Tart]

1 hour ago, PBSLover said:

Unfortunately, this is true in real life so the writing here is spot on.  Axe was originally written as loving his boys and wanting them with him as often as possible. He’s way more fucked up this season. 

Axe was very loving with his kids and really very devoted to Lara too. I think the whole breakup and divorce has been pretty rushed, mostly since I think the writers figured out that Lara wasn't working as a character. But because it's been so rushed I don't think it's been very true to who we were shown these characters were in season one. Axe is about as ruthless as you can get out in the world, but his redeeming feature was how he respected his wife and family. That and his respect and affection for Wendy were what softened him a bit for the viewer. And while I believe he could be bitter about how Lara has been acting since they officially started the divorce - especially since she threatened to take the kids to California if he was convicted - I don't believe the absolute lack of interest he's shown in his sons and spending time with them. Being busy and occasionally having to miss an event with them? Okay. But the way he's been written this season is as though he barely knows they exist, and when they are put in front of them, he immediately ditches them. 

But then I think they've really pushed both Axe and Chuck to the extremes in this season. Chuck was an ambitious man, sure, and he had a special grudge against Axe that made him willing to skirt the boundary of what was legal. But now he's gone full on criminal himself and seems to think he's still that super-hard-charging guy who is just seeking justice that Wendy tells him he is at heart. And Wendy? That she has gone full on scheming too? Also pretty extreme. I did like that she seemed to be somewhat troubled by her behavior with whatshisname, the trader who has a heart, but she too has acted in ways that I don't see as really in character - not as how she was shown to be in season one and two anyway.

My only other note is that I hate that Axe told Taylor to shut down the Quant team and that Taylor didn't use any of the 250 million that Axe gave them to keep the team up and running. My hope is that they have set them up somewhere else, either with some of the money Axe gave them, or with an investment from their tech boyfriend. I want Taylor to show Axe up by using this new method that so threatened Axe.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Pop Tart

[txhorns79]

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My only other note is that I hate that Axe told Taylor to shut down the Quant team and that Taylor didn't use any of the 250 million that Axe gave them to keep the team up and running. My hope is that they have set them up somewhere else, either with some of the money Axe gave them, or with an investment from their tech boyfriend. I want Taylor to show Axe up by using this new method that so threatened Axe.

It does feel like we are heading towards a showdown between Axe and Taylor.  My money would be on Taylor, if only because Taylor doesn't appear prone to Axe's emotion driven mistakes. 

[grommit2]

On 5/15/2018 at 11:00 AM, hoodooznoodooz said:

I had this exact reaction. So petty. So competitive. The sons have been suffering. For what? Axe’s ego. 

Minor, but it also irritated me that he told the secretary to order the boys every dessert in the restaurant. 

It was interesting how Gordie told Wendy, “Everyone keeps telling us, ‘It’s not your fault. It’s nothing you boys have done.’ I wasn’t even thinking it was our fault. . . . until they started saying that.”

And so we see the shape of future episodes:
1) Axe has his billions, but the kids become strangers to him; his wife leaves him; his rising star, Taylor, departs for another company; his favored traders move on, disillusioned by the empty pursuit of millions, etc.
2) Chuck realizes he really does want to be Governor, not for the title, but for the...power; Wendy leaves him because Chuck becomes a whining wimp; their kids become strangers because their parents are consumed by non-familial issues; Chuck's father disowns him because Chuck skips running for Governor.
3) Wendy...oh Wendy...really does want to be a dominatrix, so she leaves Chuck and opens up a chain of dominatrix stores; Chuck leaves Wendy because, well, Wendy is too busy whipping all sorts of other guys; etc.
4) Lara is totally pissed at Axe, so leaves him (do we notice a pattern here?), but she is disillusioned because all the eligible men picture her as inferior (that is, not a rich, rich, rich individual woman...just a rich woman)...which is too bad because she WAS a successful business woman; the kids are disgruntled with both parents, so they begin acting out, as kids often do; etc
5) And Taylor...my favorite because she is so, so totally bad-ass SMART...she moves on to start her own country, and all the citizens of that country adore and praise her; Taylor is happy and lets Axe, Lara, Chuck, Wendy, and all the kids visit her in her Tower...converted from Trump Tower, into Taylor Tower.  Ha...there you go!

[scrb]

What was Lara really bitching about?

A few episodes ago, they were worried Axe might be left with a few hundred million instead of billions and Lara would get only half of that.

Now she got half of however many billions and she wants Axe Capital to make it grow but not have to pay management fees.

If she deposited that into an ordinary bank account or just kept the money in some spare rooms in the mansion, she would never run out, unless she's worried about leaving money for the boys and giving some away to her family.

Why does she need a big lifestyle?  Is she going to host big galas and jet set around the world as a divorcee?  Or is she going to get some boy toy and blow a lot of it?

There's no reason for her to keep money with a hedge fund, which is inherently risky.  Despite what Axe would have you believe, studies have consistently shown it's better to invest with low-expenses index fund rather than actively-managed funds like those from Axe Capital or other hedge funds.

So she wanted her half of the billions to grow and grow and she wanted Axe Capital to make it grow without paying the hefty management fees they charge.

It's just as ridiculous as her being horrified at the prospect of living on a few hundred million.

 

I could swear from previous episodes, from some previous season, Bobby and Lara talked about how they can take or leave the money, because they met when they were poor, grew up poor and were real people.

Really as a divorcee with two sons -- I'm sure Bobby is paying child support -- her expenses wouldn't be high unless she was paying mortgage on the mansion, maintained private jet and yachts, had several mansions, had huge staffs at each that she was paying from her half, etc.

But you don't see any of that so it's about hoarding money in her accounts.

[MaryWebGirl]

9 minutes ago, scrb said:

There's no reason for her to keep money with a hedge fund, which is inherently risky.  Despite what Axe would have you believe, studies have consistently shown it's better to invest with low-expenses index fund rather than actively-managed funds like those from Axe Capital or other hedge funds.

Except Axe Cap is a shady hedge fund that breaks the law, so it likely outperforms clean funds.

And regarding what Lara's worried about, from what I've personally seen with people who have just about as much money as Axe, it's never enough. They always want more and are looking for any way they can to get it. I've even discussed with my husband about how the dialogue among the fund people on this show rings false to me because the rich people we know only talk about two things--making money and how to spend it. They don't know quirky little facts or obscure historic anecdotes.

[roughing it]

1 hour ago, Pop Tart said:

I think the whole breakup and divorce has been pretty rushed, mostly since I think the writers figured out that Lara wasn't working as a character.

Lara, as a character, would have worked had they not tried to make her into some kind of badass.  The tough-talking, cigarette smoking, f-word using Lara just didn't translate with Malin Ackerman.  They should have had Lara as more behind the scenes, a stay-at-home-mom and a supportive wife to Axe.  I did like that, because of her roots as growing up poor, she tried to instill into her boys qualities like a work ethic and being respectful to others, so that they wouldn't become assholes with "fuck you money" like their dad.

[PBSLover]

Well, we’re stuck with Malin Ackerman so I think the writers need to get it together and show her as the badass as she was written in the first two seasons.  Plus, their marriage broke up because of one lie?  It’s ridiculous.

[DarkRaichu]

I may overthink this, but how much was Chuck's decision to not run as governor came from himself vs from Wendy's coaching?  Wendy is a master manipulator who can turn a hint of doubt into full blown conviction.  I mean Chuck already took care of the kingmaker and would not have been a puppet governor.  And granting the wish of that judge to stay at Southern was nice, but that sounded like something that could have been dealt "creatively".  The one who reapt major benefit from that decision was Wendy with her revenge on Chuck Sr.. 

[scrb]

1 hour ago, DarkRaichu said:

I may overthink this, but how much was Chuck's decision to not run as governor came from himself vs from Wendy's coaching?  Wendy is a master manipulator who can turn a hint of doubt into full blown conviction.  I mean Chuck already took care of the kingmaker and would not have been a puppet governor.  And granting the wish of that judge to stay at Southern was nice, but that sounded like something that could have been dealt "creatively".  The one who reapt major benefit from that decision was Wendy with her revenge on Chuck Sr.. 

I don't think we need to overthink it.

There was no way they were going to pull Chuck and Bobby apart by putting Chuck in Albany or preoccupied with a long political campaign.

The show is Chuck and Bobby and how their paths cross, how they're always clashing.  If Chuck goes to Albany and has mostly separate story lines from Axe, it just isn't the same dynamic.

So they were teasing the viewers for about a season and a half.  No way Bobby was going away and no way Chuck was leaving for Albany either.

16 hours ago, PBSLover said:

Well, we’re stuck with Malin Ackerman so I think the writers need to get it together and show her as the badass as she was written in the first two seasons.  Plus, their marriage broke up because of one lie?  It’s ridiculous.

But he gaslighted her last season and then thought he got away with it when he erased those messages.

However, when it came down to it, Bobby respected Wendy way more, cared way more to keep Wendy out of prison than if Lara was pretty much out of his life except for the few times he saw his kids or had to pay some child support.  And Lara knows this, that Wendy is more important to Axe than she was.

Now instead of the loyal husband of the first couple of seasons, Bobby can be playboy, being led around by Wags to orgies.  That way they can fulfill the nudity quota for premium cable shows.

[teddysmom]

On 5/16/2018 at 9:07 PM, PBSLover said:

 Plus, their marriage broke up because of one lie?  It’s ridiculous.

I was thinking about that while watching this last night. I couldn't even remember why they broke up. 

I have to say, I am LOVING bad ass Wendy.  I loved when she shut down Chuck Sr's hooker rendezvous. 

"Remember who you're fucking with". 

That is my new motto.  It's actually always been my motto, along with "you're going to regret walking into this buzz saw when I'm done with you". 

[ahpny]

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"Remember who you're fucking with". 

That is my new motto.

Wendy has always been my favorite character on this show, and that scene was part of the reason why. I did, in somewhat of a non sequitor, get flash backs from that to the infamous “don’t fuck with me fellas” scene from “Mommy Dearest”. Scary stuff.

[3dogsLiz]

On 5/14/2018 at 10:47 PM, didhugh said:

Spiros was the one who first noticed trading irregularities involving Axe while he was at the SEC and brought the case to Chuck.  If I remember correctly, he actually had to goad and taunt Chuck into starting the investigation.

 

One of the things that's always bugged me about the show is its portrayal of Chuck.  To me, it can't seem to decide whether he's a zealous and ruthless prosecutor who sometimes goes over the line in pursuit of true bad guys, or whether he's just as bad as Axe but just happens to be on the "right" side, and it's not that it's drawing him in shades of gray and letting the viewer decide, it's that the characterization to me seems to actively swing back and forth.  In the first season, to me he was an ambitious USA wanting a big win. both so he could help his career and to strike a blow in cleaning up Wall Street, which led him right up to the line, and then when his ego got involved over it.  In Season 2, to me, the show seemed to me to show him going full-on over it and was intending to show that Chuck and Axe really were morally equivalent.  This season, they seem to have drawn back and made Chuck back in to the lawyer's equivalent of the cowboy cop who sometimes bends the rules because they're so committed to justice and getting the bad guy, so much so that I don't think they're acknowledging just how much ego is involved here.  

Also - does anyone else think Connerty looks like Ted Cruz?  

I agree with the question about Chuck--is he zealously watching out for the little guy or is he as big a sociopath as Axe is? 

I just watched this episode last night and I hate Chuck so much now because lately he seems like just another powerful sociopath. I actually hope Ira and Bryan team up to bring Chuck & Bobby down. I think that doesn't happen, but I love the idea of these guys so badly betrayed have their revenge. Then maybe for once some good guys could win!