S05.E22: Sutton Ross (No. 17)

[kassygreene]

Tom DID know Red at that uncomfortable meeting between "strangers".  He was telling someone else how Red Reddington had suddenly shown up there and he had to pretend not to know who he was, and it was kind of freaking him out to do that.

I can't point to a specific ep, but it may have been while he was talking to his faux brother....  I watch this show, but I don't rewatch.

[TheGreenWave]

24 minutes ago, kassygreene said:

Tom DID know Red at that uncomfortable meeting between "strangers".  He was telling someone else how Red Reddington had suddenly shown up there and he had to pretend not to know who he was, and it was kind of freaking him out to do that.

I can't point to a specific ep, but it may have been while he was talking to his faux brother....  I watch this show, but I don't rewatch.

Me too - I've watched each from the beginning, but I seem to forget a lot!  I totally need a flow chart or something.

Ok, so they did know of each other because Red hired Tom to be with Liz (I must have blocked that!) including a Faux Bro who was also hired by Red?  Then Berlin fits into this mess? 

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

She uses having given birth so she can emote "I'm a mother too" when confronting some female suspect, like that gives her the gravitas to "understand" that person. She never mentions that she dumped the kid off and never goes to see her. IMO it's better if Agnes is never mentioned, as forgotten as all three dogs, rather than used as some subplot to make us go, "Ooh, Lizzie is kind and sweet because she's a mom " Barf on that. And now that Garvey is dead, her reason for dumping Agnes in the first place, off she goes on another personal vendetta. Yeah, you're a great mom Lizzie.

But she has, at least twice, including a recent episode when she told someone (I forget who, maybe her sister?) that she had a daughter who was staying with her grandmother until she (Liz) accomplishes whatever the hell she's trying to accomplish.

I don't think the show is trying to make us (the viewers) feel sympathy when she mentions Agnes, but she probably is trying to bond with or seem more human to some of the people she is dealing with. It's an old tactic. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Gothish520

[Neiman]

7 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

I get that "no sign of the dogs" is a running joke, but Lizzie has mentioned Agnes several times this season - she doesn't have to mention her in EVERY episode.

Thank you.

[VinceW]

41 minutes ago, Neiman said:

7 HOURS AGO, GOTHISH520 SAID:

I get that "no sign of the dogs" is a running joke, but Lizzie has mentioned Agnes several times this season - she doesn't have to mention her in EVERY episode.

Thank you.

and Thanks so much for no more of the ongoing Aram/Samar senseless bashing.

Edited May 18, 2018 by VinceW

[Manda317]

11 hours ago, saber5055 said:

The show can't get this straight. When Tom went to visit Lizzie's step dad in the hospital (after Red had killed him already), the two sat on the bench outside the hospital as strangers, lamenting about loss. It was just those two, and it was made clear Tom did not know Red. Then some episodes/seasons later, we learn Red hired Tom to court Lizzie to keep her safe, and then irked Red by falling in love with her and getting (fake) married. So Tom didn't know Red when Red hired him? Okay, I guess since Tom was a hired assassin he might not know who hired him, but surely he could figure it out. Like in 10 minutes.

Which brings me to: What is her vendetta against Red, whether he's real or fake? I don't get it. Yeah, he and the FBI have used each other, but he saved Lizzie's ass more than once, and kept her hidden while she was on the lam as a murderer. So that's good reason to, what, take the guy down? All righty then.

This show has just made everything too much. This was my favorite show, and now I just can't tolerate the characters or the questions. I keep up with recaps because I wasted 5 years of my life trying to figure out what the secret is. Everybody blames Red for Liz's problems even though most her problems we're caused by her own stupidity (shooting the AG, etc.). Tom's story doesn't make any sense. Red's hated of Tom makes no sense. Liz's complete reversal on Tom doesn't make any sense because they never built up to it. I don't understand what her vendetta is, and she will probably be over it in the next episode to pick it back up 2 episodes later. I have never wanted a show to end so bad just so I could have a clue what is going on. I am not sure I believe the writers when they say they have always known what is going on because it seems like they just throw crap at the wall.

[helent]

On 5/19/2018 at 3:43 AM, kassygreene said:

I can't point to a specific ep, but it may have been while he was talking to his faux brother....  I watch this show, but I don't rewatch.

That's a very wise decision!

[paigow]

On 5/18/2018 at 1:13 PM, saber5055 said:

She uses having given birth so she can emote "I'm a mother too" when confronting some female suspect, like that gives her the gravitas to "understand" that person.

Liz will be on the brink of defeat in hand to hand combat against a female Blacklister when the following occurs....

Liz: [gasping for air, in a weak voice] Aaagnessss

Blacklister: What does that mean? Why did you say that name?

Liz: Save Agnes...

Blacklister: [Yelling angrily]  Why did you say that name?

Edited May 23, 2018 by paigow

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 5/16/2018 at 9:02 PM, TigerLynx said:

It does amuse me that Raymond is still committing cold blooded murder in front of the FBI people, and they do nothing about it.

They flinched.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 5/17/2018 at 12:30 AM, djinn said:

I guessed the fake Reddington plot a while back. It seems that fake Red was so completely obsessed with Katarina Rostova, that he just desperately wanted to believe that her daughter was his too. It's pretty likely that he offed Real Red, with Katarina's and her dad's knowledge (and approval?) Real Red must have been Katarina's spy mission and Liz's dad. Looking forward to Liz and half-sis working together next season.

So happy Samar woke up, looking gorgeous.

I thought that young Liz/Masha shot her father following an argument with Katarina, and current Red rescued her from a fire and later had her memory of the event erased. He was Katarina's lover, so that probably made him protective of Masha, and he must have assumed real Reddington's identity to somehow protect the two of them. The real Reddington must have had Jennifer with Naomi before they were put in witness protection but I don't know if he fathered Masha before or after that time. Which sister is older? How old was Jennifer when her father left?

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 5/17/2018 at 12:34 PM, saber5055 said:

I still don't get the "who is Lizzie's father" story line. Lizzie supposedly shot/killed her father when she was two, NotRed has burn scars on his back from Lizzie burning her house down. Weren't the RealRed bones buried in Katarina's yard?

Does anyone know why Lizzie is such a special snowflake that NotRed does everything, literally, for her? I haven't seen it yet.

 

I think that NotRed was in love with/the lover of Masha's mother. He saved Liz from the burning house, erased her memory of killing her father, the real Reddington, and is willing to sacrifice his life for hers out of love for her deceased mother.

 

On 5/17/2018 at 7:23 AM, ottoDbusdriver said:

Much as I like Jon Waters, I'm still trying to figure out why he did a cameo for this show -- does he owe Spader money or something like that ?

I'm going to assume that he is a huge fan of the show, and that the Blacklist people caught wind of this.  Much as Lin-Manuel Miranda has indicated a desire to appear in Brooklyn 99.

Edited May 24, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 5/17/2018 at 9:43 PM, Ottis said:

What exactly is Liz good at? She wrecked her car and injured herself in pursuit. She was taken hostage (again) by the bad guy to solve her own personal quest, and used as leverage so he could escape. She belatedly realized she should have left the bones alone, because it was Red’s to know. Thanks, Lizzie, for wasting everyone’s time.... and risking lives.... for a quest you eventually realized was pointless.  I’ve lost count of how many times she has apologized to the rest of the team for someone getting injured. And they always say, “No, no, you were right!” So stupid.

Except for the car wreck, she faked everything.  She wasn't really taken hostage and her apology to Red was also fake.

[Ottis]

2 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Except for the car wreck, she faked everything.  She wasn't really taken hostage and her apology to Red was also fake.

All in service to ... Lizzy. I'm sure her FBI colleagues enjoyed her faking them out for her own agenda. Again. There has to be a way for Lizzie to be smart for the benefit of others, not simply herself. 

[misstwpherecool]

On 5/18/2018 at 11:13 AM, TheGreenWave said:

Me too - I've watched each from the beginning, but I seem to forget a lot!  I totally need a flow chart or something.

Ok, so they did know of each other because Red hired Tom to be with Liz (I must have blocked that!) including a Faux Bro who was also hired by Red?  Then Berlin fits into this mess? 

Wasn't Tom a contractor for Lance Henriksen who was hired by Reddington to watch/protect Lizzie? So Tom eventually would've discovered the client or simply know him through underworld circles/cultures.

[Emma9]

On May 16, 2018 at 10:10 PM, Neiman said:

Then we spent the captive Lizzie scene saying she's in on another plot--no way would she have apologized to Red like that. 

Same, especially when she followed it up by shrieking in terror as she was being dragged off for more 'torture'. That was laid on much too thick.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Emma9

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, Emma9 said:

Same, especially when she followed it up by shrieking in terror as she was being dragged off for more 'torture'. That was laid on much too thick.

Indeed - I suppose it could be chalked up to panic and emotions running high, but I can't believe that not one of these people noticed that Liz was not acting the way she normally would in that type of situation. Say what you want about her, but she always takes that shyte like a boss.

[No 2 in our Hearts]

Being kidnapped is pretty much a bi-weekly occurrence for Liz (and the rest of the taskforce) at this point.

Edited June 1, 2018 by No 2 in our Hearts

[tvfanatic13]

On ‎5‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 10:50 AM, TheGreenWave said:

And walks off WITH THE DUFFLE BAG.  Like the thing they have been helping Lizzie track down for the last half of the season.  WTF???

Ok, so the Not!Surprise was the fact that Spader is FakeRed and the bones prove that.  My question is: why in the hell did Garvey kill both the doctor friend and Tom to get the bones?  Was this explained and I missed it?  It's one thing for Garvey to want to get a hold of the duffle to give to Half-Sis, and quite another to go on a killing spree and kill the husband of an FBI agent for no apparent reason that I can deduce.

HA HA!  I thought the same thing - it's one thing to have him play a character, but JW was playing himself.  This gets the award of the Most Random Cameo in my book.

This bothers me too. I thought that he WANTED the sister (forget her name) to know what was in the bag. Why did he care if Tom also knew? I forget- did Garvey know that Liz is Red's daughter too?

[TheGreenWave]

On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 2:15 PM, tvfanatic13 said:

This bothers me too. I thought that he WANTED the sister (forget her name) to know what was in the bag. Why did he care if Tom also knew? I forget- did Garvey know that Liz is Red's daughter too?

Was it ever explained how Garvey knew about the suitcase?  I mean, it was buried and then retrieved by Mr. Kaplan, left to Tom, who gave it to Nick, and then it was stolen by Garvey et al from Nick's apartment after Nick ran a search through the DNA (although didn't he kidnap Tom at some point? I remember a gross wood chipper scene....).  Did we ever find out how Garvey knew about the DNA search and Nick?  Was he as a Federal Marshall somehow privy to computer searches of DNA or whatever?  But, yeah, at the end of the day, I assumed that Garvey wanted it for Half-Sis to maybe prove she wasn't actually in any danger from Red?  The real Red?  I don't think Garvey knew until the scene at the bar when he is shot by Liz.

[NewGranny]

Okay, late to the game but I just watched all of the first five seasons and now I feel like I lost some brain cells trying to put this nonsense together, but god help me, I can't stop watching.

Anyway, I love seeing Red get snippy with Liz.  She really needs a smack down by him.  I figured that the bones were the real Redington, but I my theory is that Liz did shoot the real Red when she was a kid and for some reason Not Red was there too.  Maybe Katerina was having an affair with both men and that is what the argument was about. I still don't know why Not Red and Dembe have such strong feelings for Liz.  That makes no sense to me even if Not Red was in love with Katerina.  And why would Dembe feel so strongly about her?

Also, Not Red may not be the real Redington, but he has proven himself to be a total badass and made that name one that terrifies bad guys all on his own.

[CaptainE]

11 hours ago, NewGranny said:

Okay, late to the game but I just watched all of the first five seasons and now I feel like I lost some brain cells trying to put this nonsense together, but god help me, I can't stop watching.

Anyway, I love seeing Red get snippy with Liz.  She really needs a smack down by him.  I figured that the bones were the real Redington, but I my theory is that Liz did shoot the real Red when she was a kid and for some reason Not Red was there too.  Maybe Katerina was having an affair with both men and that is what the argument was about. I still don't know why Not Red and Dembe have such strong feelings for Liz.  That makes no sense to me even if Not Red was in love with Katerina.  And why would Dembe feel so strongly about her?

Also, Not Red may not be the real Redington, but he has proven himself to be a total badass and made that name one that terrifies bad guys all on his own.

Welcome to the rabbit hole.  Plan on losing a lot more brain cells as you watch the rest.