S07.E19: Flower Child

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

I'm still hoping, and it would fit with the show's history, given that it was Henry and Emma that broke the first curse, so another parent-child combo should break this one. Plus, Alice being the Guardian might be like Emma being the Savior, so the kiss has extra power.

Nope.  I'm betting that it's the spell that Mother Gothel and the coven are casting that will break the curse, since that's exactly what Mother Gothel wants to happen now that there is no longer any reason for the curse to exist.  That's why she's been trying to get Rogers and Tilly to wake themselves up by telling them the truth about her relationship to Tilly and their own relationship to each other, and since Mother Gothel was the one behind the curse that she forced Regina to cast in the first place, naturally she'd be the only one who knows how to break it.  All Dr. Facilier has done is make sure that Henry won't die the moment the curse is broken, because Dr. Facilier also wants the curse to be broken (for reasons that have yet to be revealed).

Edited April 29, 2018 by legaleagle53

[Camera One]

I thought Gothel might be bringing magic back so she could unleash killer plants in order to rip off "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" next week.

Dr. Facilier said something vague like "If Mother Gothel is bringing what I think she's bringing, we're all in trouble".  I'm guessing Lucy didn't ask, "What do you think she's doing?"

Edited April 29, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

10 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I thought Gothel might be bringing magic back so she could unleash killer plants in order to rip off "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" next week.

I guess Gothel being a tree nymph from the Land Without Magic explains why she can use magic there. Bringing magic back to the world seems like a very interesting concept. Too bad we've got three episodes left.

Quote

Dr. Facilier said something vague like "If Mother Gothel is bringing what I think she's bringing, we're all in trouble".  I'm guessing Lucy didn't ask, "What do you think she's doing?"

Facilier: "Bad things."
Lucy: "What kind of bad things?"
Facilier: "A war."
Lucy: "A war? What do you mean?"
Facilier: "A war between good and evil."
Lucy: "Could you be more specific?"
Facilier: "The final chapter in our story."
Lucy: "Are you doing the promos now or something?"
Facilier: "They haven't written next week's script yet, so I have to pretend I know something when nobody does."

Edited April 29, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Plus, Alice being the Guardian might be like Emma being the Savior, so the kiss has extra power.

Oh, dear, now you've caused me to hope. And we all know how that ends with this show...

24 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I thought Gothel might be bringing magic back so she could unleash killer plants in order to rip off "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" next week.

It's that plant from Little Shop Of Horrors.

[jay741982]

9 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Oh, dear, now you've caused me to hope. And we all know how that ends with this show...

It's that plant from Little Shop Of Horrors.

Audrey II "Feeed me Seymoourrr"" LOL

[Camera One]

13 hours ago, kili said:

So, help me with my math....earlier, Gothel was looking for one witch to fill out her coven so she could do the magical thing she wanted to do. She held the Hunger Games - Witch Edition which Drizella won. Since then, Drizella went home and Nick/Jack/Hansel killed two members the coven. Then, she added Tilly. My calculator must be broken because 1 person does not replace 3. Was Gothel phoning a witch temp agency while Deputy DoWhatEverThePlotRequiresFromPolicingFoodTrucksToWorkingTheFrontDesk was waking up the rest of the coven?

That doctor supposedly had her Coven tattoo removed.  What does that mean?  Did the Doctor's Cursed self not like the tattoo so she removed it?  If so, how did Nick know she was part of the Coven?  Was the Blind Witch awake or not?  Why didn't Gothel wake everyone right after she got Anastasia?  What did she need the Resurrection stone for, since it wasn't mentioned in this episode.  What happened to Madame Leota?  How was Sarafina or whatever her name was (the secretly magical girl in the Mean Girls Clique) able to survive thousands of years?  So many questions, and only three episodes left.  I wish on Reul Ghorm that this show's cancellation will be reversed.

2 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

I guess Gothel being a tree nymph from the Land Without Magic explains why she can use magic there. Bringing magic back to the world seems like a very interesting concept. Too bad we've got three episodes left.

Gothel's magic has seemed really limited, though.  She couldn't do magic until Jacinda created that Flower of Hope.  If she had magic, you'd think she would have brought back her Coven much earlier instead of twiddling her thumbs or whatever she has been doing for the past eight episodes.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

10 minutes ago, Camera One said:

instead of twiddling her thumbs or whatever she has been doing for the past eight episodes.

or the past several thousand years. :-p

[Camera One]

5 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

or the past several thousand years. 

Remember the magic bean shortage.  Gothel and Rumple are really bad at finding transportation.

Though the barriers have been down for 28 years now.  She didn't need her own Curse to come over to the Land Without Magic.

[thuganomics85]

OK, I will admit that this show has had a lot of crazy, and I have handled almost all of it.  But for some reason, Gothel being a Tree Nymph just made me laugh and laugh.  It's hard to explain, but it's like I can accept all of the Disney characters, True Love crap, characters being able to yank out hearts from chests and not kill anyone, Rumple being almost responsible for everything, and so much more.  But Tree Nymphs?  It's like on True Blood, where I could deal with vampires, werewolves, and witches, but when they suddenly brought in fairies, it just blew my mind.

Anyway, so long story short, Gothel was a tree nymph (hee!  Sorry), who wanted to be accepted by humans too, but she ends up just meeting a bunch of snooty rich girls who instead dump soil on her.  But then they suddenly go from zero to a hundred, and apparently flat-out murder Gothel's family by burning down their place.  Because why wouldn't you piss off the people who have fucking magic powers?!  So, sure enough, Gothel fucks their shit up with her magic powers (which are basically the same ones that Poison Ivy has.  D.C. should so cry foul about this!), and this is how the Coven is form, and Gothel's endgame is to take out humans for good.  Splendid.

Ha!  Henry and Jacinda finally kiss and nothing happens!  True love doesn't exist!  Thank you, show.

Meanwhile, Hook and Tilly are here actually giving emotional and even good scenes, and making me give a damn about their relationship.  Seriously, it is so frustrating that they had something good here, but it's pretty much too little, too late now.  They really should have more of this in the beginning.

Noticed that Kitsis and Horowitz wrote this themselves, and I have come to the conclusion that they're really in a "don't give a fuck anymore" mood now.  I don't know what they were drinking or smoking when they came up with this episode, but I want whatever they're having!

[kpw801]

One of the things that baffled me was how Gothel was a magical tree nymph with inherent powers and now she is a witch?  Plus her mother told her she was an eternal being like all other tree nymphs.  So how come her family was massacred?  We saw Gothe's powers when she was a bad ass at that party.  Since her mother was the matriarch of the tree nymphs she should have at least had the same potential for powerful defensive magic as Gothel.

 

One other thing.  when Mary Margaret and David finally kissed in Storybrooke, nothing happened.  The parent child kiss between Emma and Henry broke the curse.  I am thinking that maybe Hook/Tilly will be the ones who break this curse. That being said, I am still watching because I have been a Oncer from the beginning.  This season is a hot mess!

Edited April 29, 2018 by kpw801
more thoughts.

[KingOfHearts]

23 minutes ago, kpw801 said:

One other thing.  when Mary Margaret and David finally kissed in Storybrooke, nothing happened.  The parent child kiss between Emma and Henry broke the curse.  I am thinking that maybe Hook/Tilly will be the ones who break this curse. That being said, I am still watching because I have been a Oncer from the beginning.  This season is a hot mess!

3B addressed this issue by saying it takes "belief" to break the curse.

Funny how Henry's poisoned heart was a major plot point and Roni's been MIA looking for moss or whatever to heal it. Facilier swoops in and fixes in like 10 seconds. If he were around just before the curse, they could have avoided Hyperion Heights completely.

Edited April 29, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Noticed that Kitsis and Horowitz wrote this themselves, and I have come to the conclusion that they're really in a "don't give a fuck anymore" mood now.  I don't know what they were drinking or smoking when they came up with this episode, but I want whatever they're having!

I had no idea A&E actually wrote this one.  How embarrassing.  I think they do still care.  I think they were actually trying to OUTDO themselves with this epic mythology reveal/origin story for the Land Without Magic.  I mean, they've already explained the origins of The Dark One, The Dark Curse, The Book, The Savior (ok, maybe not those last two), so what's left?  Plus I'll bet a million dollars that this all started with "What if Gothel went all Carrie?" but they didn't know what to do with her until this "amazing" sequence at the ball.  Except they gave Head Mean Girl absolutely ZERO motivation except she was well, mean.  The acting and the art direction/costume/makeup was also a huge fail in this one, so very little worked.  

12 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Funny how Henry's poisoned heart was a major plot point and Roni's been MIA looking for moss or whatever to heal it. Facilier swoops in and fixes in like 10 seconds. If he were around just before the curse, they could have avoided Hyperion Heights completely.

If you can trust him, that is.  But seriously, he can't be *that* bad, if a sassy ten-year-old can negotiate with him.

[CCTC]

31 minutes ago, Camera One said:

But seriously, he can't be *that* bad, if a sassy ten-year-old can negotiate with him.

Growing up in the 70's and 80's, I do get sitcom flashbacks during Lucy's scenes.  It was the ?golden? age of the precocious child actors.   I am surprised she did not say "whatcha talking about Facilier?"  

[KingOfHearts]

4 minutes ago, CCTC said:

Growing up in the 70's and 80's, I do get sitcom flashbacks during Lucy's scenes.  It was the ?golden? age of the precocious child actors.   I am surprised she did not say "whatcha talking about Facilier?"  

She's more like that that creepy robot from Small Wonder.

[CCTC]

2 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

She's more like that that creepy robot from Small Wonder.

Vickie (sadly I remember her name) was creepy, but efficient.  She would have had everything solved and resolved by now.

[Camera One]

Were we supposed to think Gothel was being sincere when she approached Alice on the street and told her she was her mother?  Were her maternal instincts peeking through.  

[Rumsy4]

It seemed like a bunch of BS to me. But you never know what A&E intended. They probably felt it was very remorseful of her.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Noticed that Kitsis and Horowitz wrote this themselves, and I have come to the conclusion that they're really in a "don't give a fuck anymore" mood now.  I don't know what they were drinking or smoking when they came up with this episode, but I want whatever they're having!

Fitting I guess.  This was actually a very good example of the writing problems over the last couple years.  A clear set up for an arc, then basically nothing happens for half a season, and finally the entire storyline is crammed into one episode..

5 hours ago, Camera One said:

Were we supposed to think Gothel was being sincere when she approached Alice on the street and told her she was her mother?  Were her maternal instincts peeking through.  

Gothel just realized that she is a magical creature and that her powers, since they are inherent to her nature rather than learned or the result of a cursed object,  might have been passed down to her child making Alice of use to her.  Gothel clearly had some form of traumatic amnesia that blocked her from this realization in the years since Alice was born.

[jhlipton]

On 4/27/2018 at 8:07 PM, Shanna Marie said:

Weren't there indigenous people living in the Pacific Northwest a thousand or so years ago? I'm pretty sure they weren't mostly white Victorian Dynasty Heathers, and I doubt they'd have been hostile and destructive to nature spirits. So they basically erased the Native population for this story

I've had the feeling that the various forests (and castles) are in "Europe",  But regardless of where the Mean Girl Castle was, Gothel destroyed every civilization on Earth, including the ones that venerated plants.  Nice!

On 4/27/2018 at 10:33 PM, Rumsy4 said:

a glass slipper doth not a Cinderella make.

You need a blue dress, too.

On 4/28/2018 at 7:33 AM, CCTC said:

Plus how the mother was lying there while giving a cliched death speech and then instantly dying after being able to speak with a fairly strong voice almost seemed more of a satire than what was supposed to be a moving moment.

It was an opera death:
"I am stabbed"
[20 minute aria later]
dies.

On 4/28/2018 at 8:36 AM, Rumsy4 said:

the black woman wouldn't be socializing equally with the Mean Girl's crowd in America of the times.

That's another screw-up.  There's good evidence of blacks in "high society" in the Middle Ages, but not so much in the 1700 or 1800s.

[KingOfHearts]

I'm still confused as to what happened after Gothel stormed the Mean Girls party. Did she kill all of humanity? How does it explain the Land Without Magic?

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

I'm still confused as to what happened after Gothel stormed the Mean Girls party. Did she kill all of humanity? How does it explain the Land Without Magic?

I am as well. Does this race of humans predate all known civilizations (including Harappa, etc..)? Did the humans trickle in from the magical lands back to this one? Like in Narnia where humans from earth somehow ended up there. And why did humans evolve a victorian-type society twice in the course of history? It sounds utterly ridiculous as an explanation.

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

On 4/28/2018 at 1:33 AM, Rumsy4 said:

a glass slipper doth not a Cinderella make.

You need a blue dress, too.

Oh, duh. How could I forget??

[darkestboy]

A decent enough backstory for Gothel. Not enough to make her sympathetic but definitely enough to more or less explain her hatred for humanity.

It did feel like things were finally going to happen and the curse broke but whatever Gothel and her coven did seemed to put a halt to that.

I still can't figure out if we're supposed to root for Facilier but I actually liked him working with Lucy this week.

The Henry/Jacinda scenes were okay enough but the Rogers/Alice ones were better, 7/10

[Shanna Marie]

9 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I've had the feeling that the various forests (and castles) are in "Europe",  But regardless of where the Mean Girl Castle was, Gothel destroyed every civilization on Earth, including the ones that venerated plants.  Nice!

I think the Mean Girl stuff was in the Seattle area, since the gateway to the wood nymph place was in the basement of the theater (since no one would have discovered it in all the years of stuff being built in Seattle before a movie theater would have been built -- and isn't Seattle one of those cities that has an older city underground that the current city is built on top of?), plus they did that transition from Gothel creating the World Without Magic to the modern-day Seattle skyline, with the caption saying something like "The World Without Magic, thousands of years later." I thought that implied that this was meant to be the same place and the reason why this curse took them to Seattle rather than creating a hidden small town in Maine yet again.

But if anyone asked them about the Native erasure, we'd probably get some explanation that this is an alternate world and not our Seattle (like the way they handwaved away their timeline mess-up about Hamilton tickets), and they wouldn't realize that this means an even bigger erasure, if they're proposing an alternate reality in which there were no Native Americans. Unless this is supposed to be before there was any humanity at all, which then means that in pre-prehistoric times there was a Victorian civilization that got wiped out before pre-historic man came about.

There's really no way to make any of this make any sense at all in terms of reality.

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

But if anyone asked them about the Native erasure, we'd probably get some explanation that this is an alternate world and not our Seattle (like the way they handwaved away their timeline mess-up about Hamilton tickets), and they wouldn't realize that this means an even bigger erasure, if they're proposing an alternate reality in which there were no Native Americans. Unless this is supposed to be before there was any humanity at all, which then means that in pre-prehistoric times there was a Victorian civilization that got wiped out before pre-historic man came about.

Which doesn't make sense since the caption said "Our World" in the Pilot. Originally, it was meant to be 100% reality without any inconsistencies with history. Over time it became more of an "alternate earth" where magic exists in small but noticeable amounts. There's also Fictional Kansas, Fictional Victorian England, and Fictional 1920s England, which tells me the "Land Without Magic" could just be another Fictional realm.

Edited April 30, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[tennisgurl]

39 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

There's also Fictional Kansas, Fictional Victorian England, and Fictional 1920s England, which tells me the "Land Without Magic" could just be another Fictional realm.

At this point, it would make more sense if they just went full on meta and said that the supposed Land Without Magic is yet another Fictional realm that was actually part of a TV show called Once Upon a Time... 

It would make more sense than saying that our world had developed all the way into the Regency/Victorian era thousands of years ago, then one Nymph managed to destroy everything and everyone with plants, to the point that people had to start again from cromagnum man (and how lucky that we evolved biologically and societal wise the exact same way twice!) and somehow no one has ever found traces of this advanced society laying around the place. You cant hide THAT much under freaking plants! And, all just because one group were assholes? Kind of harsh dumping all of humanity for that one. Or is that all the earth had? Because....nope. Even in a universe where last season seemed to show the multiverse having like a dozen people in it at the big climax, thats just ridiculous. And, why did people hate magic so much in this time? All we got was "its an abomination", but why? They're literally nature creatures! From the Earth! is this world run by crazy Puritans or something? Because, when I think Puritans, I dont think frilly gowns and balls. Was there an incident or something? Were Nymphs the only magic out there, or did humans get rid of more of it? I could be ok with the idea that "our" Earth once had magic and stuff thats gone dormant, but the way they explained it was just nonsense, and raised a billion more questions than it answered. They're probably going to say that this is another "Land of Stories" like they always do when something seems to be happening in our world, but it doesn't actually line up with anything we know about our own damn universe. Magical Seattle where maybe all the Christopher Moore books take place? God only knows what all Emma and Henry were not noticing in New York City, which is probably Magical New York if this is Magical Seattle, which means it probably has about 700 stories all happening at the same damn time someone never bumping into each other. Maybe they just thought The Avengers fighting aliens was a publicity stunt? Where does the madness end?

Seriously, I cant even with the many ways this backstory makes no sense in the context of it being "our" worlds story. It boggles the mind.

[Shanna Marie]

54 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Originally, it was meant to be 100% reality without any inconsistencies with history. Over time it became more of an "alternate earth" where magic exists in small but noticeable amounts. There's also Fictional Kansas, Fictional Victorian England, and Fictional 1920s England, which tells me the "Land Without Magic" could just be another Fictional realm.

I think that the Land Without Magic would have worked for our world if they hadn't had the Hamilton slip and instead of admitting that they lost track of the timeline or didn't look at when Hamilton opened, they tried to create a story around the goof (it's a different world where Hamilton opened sooner). And now I guess they're running with it and using that to explain every inconsistency, so the Land Without Magic is just another fictional realm that's almost, but not quite, entirely like our world, just with Broadway musicals opening at different times, a fountain in front of the New York Public Library, a different New York real estate market that allows apartments to remain vacant for years after their occupants die, a wonky child services/adoption system, a much shorter distance between New York and Maine, and now an entirely different human history. Between the Victorian pre-history and Bae's visit to real Victorian London (not to be confused with Fictional Victorian England World), I guess we have an indication that this isn't "Fictional Late 20th/Early 21st Century World." They missed their chance to do "80s Teen Movie World."

[Kaiju Ballet]

On 4/27/2018 at 10:43 PM, Writing Wrongs said:

So Gothel is Poison Ivy?

I guess I'm in the minority, because I dislike the acting for Tilly. I hate the way she talks and acts.

I'll be glad when the show is done, so I can be done.

Lol, that's EXACTLY what I thought when I saw Gothel conjure up plant life to attack people--especially since they keep switching up the actress who plays Poison Ivy.

You're also not alone in your dislike of how Tilly is portrayed. It's the acting on top of already horrible writing.  If it weren't for Hook, I'd FF through all her scenes. As it is, their encounters tend to include at least one "You don't believe me!/ You DO believe me!" per episode.

On 4/28/2018 at 12:53 PM, tennisgurl said:

Lucy is normally just kind of there, but i think her greater focus this week showed that she is basically an annoying TV precocious child, and her scenes were super lame. I feel bad, because you can tell the young actress is trying, but it comes off as so "I am acting now" that it loses all charm or interest. But, the dialogue they gave her was so crap, most adults probably couldn't have saved it. Speaking of, the guy who plays Henry just has the most blah expressions on his face, while Jacinda has some serious bug eggs going on.

Agree with ALL of this. Lucy is SO EARNEST in all her emoting, I'm wondering how "precocious" the other kids they auditioned were . In contrast, the kid who plays Trixie on Lucifer is amazeballs, although admittedly she has a far better script to work with. At least the actor playing Dr. Facilier seems to be having a fun time with with his role, as nonsensical as his character motivations and actions are.

I get that the mean girls were supposed to be wearing the "real life" equivalents of Disney cartoon dresses, sort of like those pre-made Halloween Costumes they sold in boxes for kids. Did they change the designer for the show? Because I imagine the same guy that created all those fabulous Evil Queen outfits weeping at his sewing machine.

[KingOfHearts]

51 minutes ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

Did they change the designer for the show? Because I imagine the same guy that created all those fabulous Evil Queen outfits weeping at his sewing machine.

Yes, they did, actually. I really miss Eduardo Castro.

Edited April 30, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Mabinogia]

50 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

1 hour ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

Did they change the designer for the show? Because I imagine the same guy that created all those fabulous Evil Queen outfits weeping at his sewing machine.

Yes, they did, actually. I really miss Eduardo Castro.

Did he steal the shows heart when he left? Seriously, someone ripped the heart out of this show and keeps it in a little box somewhere dark and dank and sad. 

He did do some amazing work. One of my favorite things about Regina/Evil Queen was her wardrobe. 

[andromeda331]

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 10:35 PM, Camera One said:

 And Gothel spent thousands of years, and still couldn't find 8 women to be in her Coven?

This cracks me up. If you can't find 8 women in thousands of years maybe its you? 

[tennisgurl]

For the amount of characterization this amazing, powerful coven has gotten, they may as well have just stayed as coat hangers. 

[CCTC]

3 hours ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

Did they change the designer for the show? Because I imagine the same guy that created all those fabulous Evil Queen outfits weeping at his sewing machine.

 

2 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Yes, they did, actually. I really miss Eduardo Castro.

I am not saying the change in designer has not contributed a lot to the decline in costuming, but I am guessing the new person has  a much smaller budget to work with.  It does seem like people are either wearing previous costumes that have been modified (I swear Henry is wearing some of Charming's hand-me-downs) or look like they could have been rented from a Halloween store.

[Shanna Marie]

14 minutes ago, CCTC said:

I am not saying the change in designer has not contributed a lot to the decline in costuming, but I am guessing the new person has  a much smaller budget to work with.  It does seem like people are either wearing previous costumes that have been modified (I swear Henry is wearing some of Charming's hand-me-downs) or look like they could have been rented from a Halloween store.

Yeah, I do think Henry's Disenchanted Forest wardrobe reminds me a lot of Charming's costumes. And I suspect all those ballgowns in this episode showed up in previous Victorian Dynasty Prom ball scenes. If we wanted to really track it, we could probably find them in Eric's Under the Sea ball, Midas's engagement ball, Cinderella's (original) ball, or the ball Ana crashed on the Wonderland spinoff.

[Mabinogia]

21 minutes ago, CCTC said:

(I swear Henry is wearing some of Charming's hand-me-downs) or look like they could have been rented from a Halloween store.

I kind of love the idea of silly little Henry raiding his grandfather's closet before heading off on his epic quest. I mean, really, what hero goes around in jeans and a tee shirt. He needs proper leather tights and jerkin. 

[KingOfHearts]

1 minute ago, Mabinogia said:

I kind of love the idea of silly little Henry raiding his grandfather's closet before heading off on his epic quest. I mean, really, what hero goes around in jeans and a tee shirt. He needs proper leather tights and jerkin. 

Didn't he wield Charming's sword, or am I just imagining things?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, CCTC said:

 

I am not saying the change in designer has not contributed a lot to the decline in costuming, but I am guessing the new person has  a much smaller budget to work with.  It does seem like people are either wearing previous costumes that have been modified (I swear Henry is wearing some of Charming's hand-me-downs) or look like they could have been rented from a Halloween store.

I think the old designer left because the show was clearly sliding into its cancellation and probably had other opportunities or was looking for them.

The new designer was from A&Es Freeform show.  I think probably not ready for what this show used to be but they probably couldn't get anyone to come onto a show that was clearly ending so they got someone they knew.  Adjusting prior costumes is probably all they really expect or can afford.

[Camera One]

Hello all,

This is A&E here.  We are thrilled you are all so curious and full of wonder as we revealed yet another layer in our world, stretching back millennia!  There is a lot more where that came from, but sadly, our grove of creativity has been destroyed and murdered by the network, much like Gothel's beloved sanctuary.  But stay strong, fans!  Remember, in the soil, nothing dies and our writing has planted some deep roots in your minds that will be very difficult, if not impossible, to extract.  

Love,

A&E

[Rumsy4]

You've outdone yourself, @Camera One. I am all admiration.

[jhlipton]

14 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

There's really no way to make any of this make any sense at all in terms of reality.

So what elkse is new????

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

people had to start again from cromagnum man

Cro-magnon man wasn't "thousands of years ago", they were over 40,000 yeaqrs ago.  Plus, she said something that sounded like she was talking about lungfish, which goes back 400 million years ago.

9 hours ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

the kid who plays Trixie on Lucifer is amazeballs, although admittedly she has a far better script to work with.

Isn't Scarlett great?  I like that they don't overuse her, too.

9 hours ago, Kaiju Ballet said:

I imagine the same guy that created all those fabulous Evil Queen outfits weeping at his sewing machine.

Not not mention the Booby Fairies (which is totally my next band name).

[Mabinogia]

7 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Cro-magnon man wasn't "thousands of years ago", they were over 40,000 yeaqrs ago.  Plus, she said something that sounded like she was talking about lungfish, which goes back 400 million years ago.

I'm pretty sure the theme of this show is "time is irrelevant". All things happen at once and this is really all just a big, drawn out ep of Dr. Who.

Life lesson, do not let A or E teach your children history.

[Rumsy4]

I may be off, but I’ve never seen any contemporary writers pay so little attention to accuracy when it comes to timelines and historical events. I know writers do it deliberately at times to make a point or to achieve a certain aesthetic or because of carelessness. A&E just don’t care.

[Shanna Marie]

30 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I may be off, but I’ve never seen any contemporary writers pay so little attention to accuracy when it comes to timelines and historical events. I know writers do it deliberately at times to make a point or to achieve a certain aesthetic or because of carelessness. A&E just don’t care.

They really are inexcusably sloppy when it's so easy to check these things. I've been working on a series that has a similar timeline issue as seasons one through six, where it started out being contemporary, happening at about the same time the book was released, but each book only covered a few weeks or months, so real world time moved a lot faster, and that means by now the real world is about a decade ahead. That means all technology and pop culture references have to be checked. The characters can't have smartphones or tablets and I can't have them making wisecracks about Frozen. When I think of a reference or a bit of technology, I look it up to see whether it will work for that time period. It's not hard. But it does mean you have to be keeping track of when these events are happening in your world -- how much time has passed since your last obvious timestamp -- and you have to bother to think about whether that one offhand joke is worth breaking your timeline for. And you have to be consistent. When they were doing Frozen, they talked about how the movie hadn't yet come out in their world, so none of them would have heard of Elsa, Anna, etc. But then you can't throw in a reference to getting Hamilton tickets and pretend like that also fits. You can't have a child who's an infant before Frozen is released still be an infant when people are trying to get Hamilton tickets. And claiming that it's not really our world sort of ruins the story because the whole point of this series is the pretense that this is our world, that the fairy tale characters are among us. It's no fun if it's just another random fictional universe.

9 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Cro-magnon man wasn't "thousands of years ago", they were over 40,000 yeaqrs ago.  Plus, she said something that sounded like she was talking about lungfish, which goes back 400 million years ago.

Both these time possibilities make it even more improbable that artifacts from whatever era that was would just pop up in the basement of a mid-20th century movie theater without anyone having noticed them. Like, that's the sort of thing where when they were doing the excavation for construction, the discovery would have brought construction to a screeching halt while archaeologists swarmed in.

[jhlipton]

8 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Both these time possibilities make it even more improbable that artifacts from whatever era that was would just pop up in the basement of a mid-20th century movie theater without anyone having noticed them.

Especially since, as you mentioned, Seattle had an entire city that the current one was built on top of.  So the odds are good that the "basement" of the theater would have been the top floor of a building in the 1800s.  But no one noticed!  (Any bets that A&E did any research on the city they decided to set this season in???)

Edited May 1, 2018 by jhlipton

[KAOS Agent]

The earliest known human artifacts in the Seattle area date from 13,000 years ago, so the ridiculous events of the episode would have happened before these people appeared. However, just prior to humans arrival, the area was under a half mile of glacial ice for a very, very long time which pushed the land down hundreds of feet and then when it melted everything was underwater for hundreds of years. Good luck with finding perfectly intact artifacts in the place where you left them after that. Not to mention the various volcanic eruptions, earthquakes and tsunamis that hit the area over thousands of years, which would further complicate artifact location and extraction.

Edited May 2, 2018 by KAOS Agent

[Camera One]

Did A&E mean millions of years ago?  I mean, it's equally idiotic, but it's pretty offensive if they're saying thousands of years ago, Seattle had European culture?  I'm actually surprised they didn't go with their usual "A very long time ago".  

Or, as suggested by several posters above, next episode's big reveal is that there are multiple Worlds Without Magic.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Camera One

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Did A&E mean millions of years ago?  I mean, it's equally idiotic, but it's pretty offensive if they're saying thousands of years ago, Seattle had European culture?  I'm actually surprised they didn't go with their usual "A very long time ago".  

Or, as suggested by several posters above, next episode's big reveal is that there are multiple Worlds Without Magic.

When did they say thousands of years ago? The beginning of the episode says "many years ago"

[Camera One]

12 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

When did they say thousands of years ago? The beginning of the episode says "many years ago"

I'll have to rewatch (ha, not doing that), but I think after the Gothel flashback, near the end of the episode, it said "Thousands of years later", and then it showed the skyline of Seattle, if I remember correctly.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Camera One

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Camera One said:

I'll have to rewatch (ha, not doing that), but I think after the Gothel flashback, near the end of the episode, it said "Thousands of years later", and then it showed the skyline of Seattle, if I remember correctly.

Ah ok.   There is no FF function so I'm not going to check either.

I will say that if it was thousands of years later, then the doorknobs on that house at the beginning bug me more than the clothes.

[Shanna Marie]

7 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I think after the Gothel flashback, near the end of the episode, it said "Thousands of years later", and then it showed the skyline of Seattle, if I remember correctly.

That's the way I remembered it, except on the shot with the Seattle skyline and the "thousands of years later" it also said "the World Without Magic."

52 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Or, as suggested by several posters above, next episode's big reveal is that there are multiple Worlds Without Magic.

And just as there are many Cinderellas in different worlds, there are many Seattles, Maines, and New Yorks. And all those worlds develop the same popular culture. Star Wars really is universal. Hamilton is a smash hit in every world, but it opens at different times in different worlds.

[tennisgurl]

I think it started out with their usual vague "many years ago", and then it said thousands of years later I think. Which is just such utter nonsense, I cant even. A few thousand years ago? Yeah, that was awhile ago, but, we still HAVE STUFF from a few thousand years ago! I've walked in buildings that old! How could we have not noticed all of these buildings and corpses of what was apparently an entire world reaching  culture that was destroyed by plants all of the sudden? Or did she just destroy the Seattle area, and assumed that was all there was of humanity? But, I am pretty sure they said that she wiped out all life, so that doesn't line up. So, this must have happened several million years ago (as we are totally aware that there were not European style balls being held in Seattle a few thousand years ago), so that humans could have evolved again, done all the stuff that got us out of caves, started various cultures and civilizations that we know existed, and, coincidentally, they ended up creating cultures VERY similar to ones that existed in a forgotten time millions of years ago. 

Just wait, the retcon that this is just another Land of Stories is coming up any day now. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by tennisgurl