Season 4: Good-bye Ben Stone

[GHScorpiosRule]

Sadly, this would be the last season of the wonderful Ben Stone.  I remember thinking, who could EVER take his place? I missed the last half of this season in its initial run as I was in India at the time, but I do remember Morirarty quitting, and something to do with what AG Reno said at the time. Little did I know that poor Moriarty had gone Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

 

This season had some very powerful episodes.

[rujasu]

This was definitely one of the best season.  Not just the last season of Stone, but also the first for Lt. Van Buren.  I did enjoy pre-SVU Cragen, but Anita was in a class of her own, and not just because she lasted seventeen seasons.

[radishcake]

Yes! S. Epatha is the BEST. We were channel surfing yesterday and saw her part in Lincoln. She and Tommy Lee Jones were awesome. 

Anita was always my favorite. <3

[GHScorpiosRule]

At the risk of getting my women's lib card taken away from me, I kinda loved it when it was all men. Sue me.

 

That said, I love both Cragen and Van Buren. Sometimes I wish they could have switched them--you know, one week with Van Buren, another with Cragen. That way I could get them both!  But then Cragen returned full-time in SVU, so I could still get my Cragen fix, though I call SHENANNIGANS!!! at the retcon over his history. But I'll save that for the Cragen thread. Is there a Cragen thread? There should be. Just like there should be one for Van Buren.

[radishcake]

Season 4: Episode List

 

1 Sweeps 1993-09-15
2 Volunteers 1993-09-29
3 Discord 1993-10-06
4 Profile 1993-10-13
5 Black Tie 1993-10-20
6 Pride and Joy 1993-10-27
7 Apocrypha 1993-11-03
8 American Dream 1993-11-09
9 Born Bad 1993-11-16
10 The Pursuit of Happiness 1993-12-01
11 Golden Years 1994-01-05
12 Snatched 1994-01-12
13 Breeder 1994-01-19
14 Censure 1994-02-02
15 Kids 1994-02-09
16 Big Bang 1994-03-02
17 Mayhem 1994-03-09
18 Wager 1994-03-30
19 Sanctuary 1994-04-13
20 Nurture 1994-05-04
21 Doubles 1994-05-18
22 Old Friends 1994-05-25

[Princess Sparkle]

I mentioned this previously (though, I can't remember if I ever did at this board), but I really think Ben Stone's last episode should've been Sanctuary. Michael Moriarity put on a master class of acting on that episode (his scenes with Lorraine Toussant are OUTSTANDING and some of the best of the whole series), plus I buy so much more that he would leave the office because he didn't personally believe in the direction they were going, not that he would quit because he felt guilty a witness was murdered.

I also don't really like Claire, and I LOVED Robinette, so I really didn't like her addition to the cast.

I will say, this season gives me one of my favorite Ben Stone lines, in Discord, when he continually refers to the defendant as "Mr C-Squared" when cross examining him. Ben Stone, always the gentleman.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Princess Aldrea, is that you?!

 

I think I read somewhere where originally that was supposed to be Stone's last episode? Or was that just wishful thinking on our parts? And like I said, over on TWoP and here as well, it's too bad Moriarty went cuckoo for cocoa puffs. I really would have liked to have seen how he would have handled some of the case in season five, and how Stone would react to Mike's getting shipped off to Staten Island after popping that murderous, homophobic councilman. McCoy came off as cold.

[Princess Sparkle]

Not Princess Aldrea - I was bparhad back at TWOP : )

I think it was just wishful thinking on my part that Sanctuary was to be his last episode - I just think it made so much more sense in his character, plus, it's a really good "goodbye" episode. Ah well.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Not Princess Aldrea - I was bparhad back at TWOP : )

I think it was just wishful thinking on my part that Sanctuary was to be his last episode - I just think it made so much more sense in his character, plus, it's a really good "goodbye" episode. Ah well.

 

Oops, my bad! The Princess threw me off, heh.

[Princess Sparkle]

Oops, my bad! The Princess threw me off, heh.

 

 

Hee - I gave myself a royal upgrade in the move : )

[FormerMod-a1]

I'm watching Black Tie on WE right now and I don't think I've ever seen it before.  Which is really puzzling, since I watched the series from the beginning, and for the past several years have the syndicated eps on as background noise and/or comfort TV.  But nothing about this one is familiar to me.  Yay, me, I guess.  I am finding the defendant and her attorney quite annoying.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm watching Black Tie on WE right now and I don't think I've ever seen it before. Which is really puzzling, since I watched the series from the beginning, and for the past several years have the syndicated eps on as background noise and/or comfort TV. But nothing about this one is familiar to me. Yay, me, I guess. I am finding the defendant and her attorney quite annoying.

Yes, I can't stand the dripping SMUG from Rothenberg, played by Jeffrey DeMunn. He's up there along with my Melnick hate.

Ass has his associate try the case while he's writing the appeal, as if it's beneath him to get in the trenches if you will and stay above it all and all academia in his smuggery smugness that ever smugged.

Just the fact that the widow had no affect, no nothing over her husband's murder, should have been a freakin' red flag about her being a sociopath.

I think this was the only episode where John Ramsey, who otherwise always played Judge Schrieber, played a different judge.

Edited October 29, 2014 by GHScorpiosRule

[proserpina65]

I will say, this season gives me one of my favorite Ben Stone lines, in Discord, when he continually refers to the defendant as "Mr C-Squared" when cross examining him.

 

Thanks to Ben Stone, that actor will forever be known as Mr. C-Squared to me.  I loved Ben - he wanted to do good and put criminals away, but he really didn't want to cut corners or do anything ethically questionable in the process.  Sort of the anti-Jack McCoy in a lot of ways.  I really missed him when he left.

[Ailianna]

I'm watching the WE marathon (I've had nasty bronchitis and staying home sick and so I've been seeing a lot of L&O lately!. Watching "Breeder" with the young couple who sell their unborn baby to multiple rich people then fake his kidnapping at birth, I caught something that was just funny to me. The hotel door they knock on to catch the dad is clearly on screen labelled 208. Mike then gets on the phone inside and calls for a CSU team to room 511. I'm sure the script was written before the location was found, but I was entertained that they couldn't change the line to match the shot.

[Constantinople]

Pardon me if I don't get all teary eyed over Ben Stone's departure after he got Allison Janney murdered.

 

Plus, that bastard prosecuted Lisa Eichhorn.

 

Speaking of

 

20 Nurture 1994-05-04
21 Doubles 1994-05-18

 

 

Probably not the only time this has happened given the length of the series, but guest stars in these back-to-back episodes co-starred in the same movie.

 

The defendant in Nuture was Lisa Eichhorn, who played Mo in Cutter's Way.  Mo's husband is the titular Cutter, played by John Heard, who played the victim's father in Doubles.

Edited February 1, 2015 by Constantinople

[Moose135]

Pardon me if I don't get all teary eyed over Ben Stone's departure after he got Allison Janney murdered.

 

I was just watching that episode thinking the same thing!

[Maherjunkie]

I didn't agree with him then but normally loved him.  He did want to bring down the mob after all.  Are you defending the kidnapper in Nurture?  Though in a way "BEatrice" was far worse.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Pardon me if I don't get all teary eyed over Ben Stone's departure after he got Allison Janney murdered.

 

Granted, I'm biased, because I freakin' love Ben Stone.  But it's not as if he were fired for forcing her to testify which led to her death. PLUS, this was Allison's second appearance, and she didn't die/was murdered in her first appearance which was in Season 2.  The case of Bradley White's stalker ass who nearly killed that soap opera actress. Janney played her secretary.

 

Since Ben loved his job, his resigning was, to me, anyway, to punish himself, because he did feel responsible for her death, after promising her she'd be protected.

 

But, tomato and tomahto and all that.

[Constantinople]

Granted, I'm biased, because I freakin' love Ben Stone.  But it's not as if he were fired for forcing her to testify which led to her death. PLUS, this was Allison's second appearance, and she didn't die/was murdered in her first appearance which was in Season 2.  The case of Bradley White's stalker ass who nearly killed that soap opera actress. Janney played her secretary.

 

Since Ben loved his job, his resigning was, to me, anyway, to punish himself, because he did feel responsible for her death, after promising her she'd be protected.

 

But, tomato and tomahto and all that.

Not murdering someone in Season 2 isn't a defense to murdering someone in Season 4.

If it were anyone else, McCoy would have charged him with depraved indifference.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Not murdering someone in Season 2 isn't a defense to murdering someone in Season 4.

If it were anyone else, McCoy would have charged him with depraved indifference.

 

Ben didn't murder her, though. He didn't shoot her in the chest, or wherever she was shot. It was the Russians.  He just wasn't able to protect her.  And even if he hadn't forced her to testify, she would have been looking over her shoulder the rest of her life; she was considered a loose end and would have eventually been killed.

 

McCoy has done is own share of forcing witnesses to testify with less than successful results, and I don't buy the argument that Ben was guilty of depraved indifference.

[Constantinople]

Ben didn't murder her, though. He didn't shoot her in the chest, or wherever she was shot. It was the Russians.  He just wasn't able to protect her.  And even if he hadn't forced her to testify, she would have been looking over her shoulder the rest of her life; she was considered a loose end and would have eventually been killed.

They've prosecuted plenty of defendants who short-circuited the victim's inevitable death.

 

McCoy has done is own share of forcing witnesses to testify with less than successful results, and I don't buy the argument that Ben was guilty of depraved indifference.

Because a corrupt prosecutorial system refuses to hold its guardians to the same standards as everyone else.

[Eolivet]

Caught "Sanctuary" last night on a WE marathon (or binge-a-thon, as they called it -- which always makes me wonder how these shows get "purged," but maybe that's just me. Hate the word "binge" for watching multiples episodes at once. HATE. Anyway...)

 

But wow, the continued relevance of Sanctuary just blew my mind. Racial issues, disenfranchisement, the anonymity of a mob. I find it both funny and sad that the composition of the New York neighborhoods have shifted faster than progress on social issues. It's no longer dangerous to live in Chelsea, but we're still dealing with racial injustice. This was 1994! It's 11 years later, and very little has changed.

 

What a thought-provoking, well-done episode.

[Spartan Girl]

Yeah, but it made me angry how Shambala Green seemed to think that the guy attacking the innocent people in a riot was justifiable because of that white guy getting off for the hit-and-run.  I think Ben was right on that one: two wrongs don't make a right and if you think racial injustice gives you the right to attack other people you've never met, then you're only adding to the problem.

 

Simply my opinion of course.

[Mrs. P.]

Lorraine Touissant is so beautiful, as well as being fantastic as Shambala Green. I loved her in Sanctuary, even though I didn't agree with her defense of her client.

I did a double take while watching the scene of the playback of the video of the mob scene. J.K. Simmons was playing the video technician! I was yelling 'Skoda! Skoda!' at my TV. He looked and sounded exactly the same. Love him.

[rujasu]

But wow, the continued relevance of Sanctuary just blew my mind. Racial issues, disenfranchisement, the anonymity of a mob. I find it both funny and sad that the composition of the New York neighborhoods have shifted faster than progress on social issues. It's no longer dangerous to live in Chelsea, but we're still dealing with racial injustice. This was 1994! It's 11 years later, and very little has changed.

 

Not just 11 years.  It's 21 years later.

[GHScorpiosRule]

So, "American Dream" was on today, and I think, I haven't seen Ben be as sexay as he was in the conversation with Doyle, who had lied to clear Swan, the second time around--when he refused to give in to the bastard, by saying he wanted the truth or he'd show up at each and every parole hearing to make sure he wouldn't make parole. No theatrics, no overt or over the top threats. Just calm, controlled what he would do if Doyle didn't spill it.

And it was in this episode we learned that Stone was divorced, when Swan brought up all of Stone's personal history in a deposition, after Swan was acquited and was suing Stone and the state in a civil suit. And it was there that Stone got him, which led him to Doyle, and got him for the murder of Bobbit. NO! Not that Bobbit!

DAMMIT! I MISS Stone! Why'd Moriarty have to go all Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs???!!!

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just finished watching "Sanctuary" and I still am blown away. I can't recall how many times I've watched this, and ironically, this episode remains relevant even today, with what is going on in our society.

 

The dialogue, so very powerful. Especially that scene with Shambala and Stone.

 

I agree, that this should have been the season finale, because it demonstrated and showed how very tired Stone was of killers not taking personal responsiblity for the crimes they commit. As opposed to "Old Friends" where he resigned because Allison Janney's character got killed after she testified for the prosecution.

 

And I don't care if I sound like a broken record: Why'd Moriarty have to Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs???!!! Why????? WHY???!!!!!

[Cobalt Stargazer]

WE has been showing some of the Stone-era episodes, and I don't know how I forgot that he and Claire worked together before the cheese slid off of Moriarty's cracker. MM strikes me as very much like Mandy Patinkin, who left Criminal Minds after going a bit cuckoo himself.I like Stone more in retrospect than I did the first time around, and I'm not sure how that happened.

[GHScorpiosRule]

WE has been showing some of the Stone-era episodes, and I don't know how I forgot that he and Claire worked together before the cheese slid off of Moriarty's cracker. MM strikes me as very much like Mandy Patinkin, who left Criminal Minds after going a bit cuckoo himself.I like Stone more in retrospect than I did the first time around, and I'm not sure how that happened.

 

 

Me either, Cobalt! I've loved Stone since Day One. 

 

Confession: His character was the reason my dream was to work for the New York District Attorney's Office. BEFORE I learned one had to be independentl wealthy to do so! I guess I'm an idealist at heart. I just love how more often than not, Stone wanted Justice, and never thought about his record--i.e. how many wins he could rack up. Unlike Jack, who also cared about Justice, but Waterson's portrayal told me, he cared more about winning, cutting corners, and promising immunity deals, with recklessness. And I didn't care for that.

 

And I know, I know, but I know what I like, and I liked, nay, LOVED BEN STONE.  And yes, I know he's a fictional character.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

There's something very impressive about the way Ben says, "Sir". Because he calls almost all of the defendants/suspects that, (including this one dude who just threatened to crack his head open)  but it sounds like what he's really saying is, "Look, you dumb bastard, pay attention or I'll bury you myself." Maybe that's what I didn't appreciate the first time.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Cobalt Stargazer

[Maherjunkie]

Booze and Janet Reno made him crazzy.

[GHScorpiosRule]

A couple of things about "Sanctuary."

 

One, I remain pissed that Berger (Michael Constatine) got off for that hit and run that killed the little boy. And Two, I was very disappointed in Shambala Green. In each of her appearances, she always believes in the arguments she's making for her clients and defends them passionately and zealously (in a good way).  But here? She admitted to Stone, that she hates what her client did, and doesn't even believe in the "mob mentality" defense she's using, but is doing it anyway.  That one powerful scene between her and Stone took place here. I will post it in the quote thread momentarily.

 

And a reference to the '92 L.A. riots, after the cops were acquitted for beating Rodney King nearly to death:

 

Darryl: "I call the laywer. Then you and me, we can't talk. Then the DA fries my butt for something I didn't do."

 

Lennie: "Except we know you were there, Darryl. They caught you on tv.  Don't you watch the news?"

 

Darryl: "That don't even look like me, man."

 

Lennie: "Oh, yeah, they tried that one in L.A."

 

Darryl: "Worked, didn't it?"

 

Lennie: (Sighs) "Darryl, we're the good guys here.  See, we don't really give a damn about these people looting and busting up people's cars.  That's not our department. We're in homicide."

 

Darryl: "So?"

 

Lennie: "So, your friend there is homiciding somebody."

 

Me: snerk at Lennie's last line. Before Lennie, Mike always got the best, snarkiest lines! I love Lennie!

[Cobalt Stargazer]

A couple of things about "Sanctuary."

 

One, I remain pissed that Berger (Michael Constatine) got off for that hit and run that killed the little boy. And Two, I was very disappointed in Shambala Green. In each of her appearances, she always believes in the arguments she's making for her clients and defends them passionately and zealously (in a good way).  But here? She admitted to Stone, that she hates what her client did, and doesn't even believe in the "mob mentality" defense she's using, but is doing it anyway.  That one powerful scene between her and Stone took place here. I will post it in the quote thread momentarily.

 

Thing is, while I generally like Claire, she was almost as bad as Shambala, because Ben was telling her about how Green's client killed that other motorist because people were angry about Berger being acquitted, and she says something like, "Well, I can't imagine how I would have reacted if I had been screwed over by the system time and time again."

 

Regardless of how one feels about society's prejudices, how can a prosecutor say with a straight face that maybe what happened was kinda-sorta justified? I don't believe that that was actually the character's intention, or even the writers' intention when they gave her the line to say, but it pissed me off, and I wished Ben had said the equivalent of, "What the hell are you even talking about?!?!" As I said, I usually like Claire, but in this one instance, I just wanted her to shut up.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I agree.  And I'm neutral on Claire, but she would annoy me when she would act all stupid like that. Or like how she asked to be recused from the case in "Censure" but wouldn't tell Ben WHY? Or her fighting Jack against "Dr." Haas in "Second Opinion" and Jack asked her, if she'd be this passionate against going after Haas, if Haas had been a man.

[GHScorpiosRule]

UGH. "Black Tie."

 

I loathe, really loathe, Defense attoreny Rothenberg. The smug he exudes. Though not as much as I HATE and and LOATHE Melnick, but he does run a close second.

 

And Mike has always come across as an enlightened sort of man, so Van Buren's remark about how he has a problem with her "rank in a skirt"? or was it "rank and a skirt" ??? just was a WTF to me, considering all the episodes prior to this, didn't show any resentment coming from him, when it came to taking orders from her, or seeing her as his CO. So, what the fuck, Walon Green and Michael Chernuchin, who wrote this episode and normally write good stuff?

 

I just don't like this episode. But typical, that the rich and wealthy, of course and naturally get away with murder.

[WendyCR72]

So I sort of dug original recipe "Equalizer" as I thought it fun/cool to see an old guy like Edward Woodward kick ass. (Hey, that was my teen thinking! And loved Stewart Copeland's funky '80s theme!).

 

Anyway, popped in some S3 out of boredom and saw...Michael Moriarty in an episode! And the beginning was him walking down a lot of steps like he did from the courthouse in L&O with reporters swarming him, although he played a doctor here. I looked it up and the episode was "Starfire" from 1988.

 

Had a moment of confusion, wondering if I put in L&O, instead.  :-)  His voice is unmistakable. As an aside, Vincent D'Onofrio also appeared in another episode that season, too, as a mentally-challenged guy accused of murder and was a mobster in a S2 episode.

 

I love(d) '80s shows.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

2 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

"Born Bad" from Season Four

I'm also watching that episode right now, and this whole "chromosome defense" is pissing me off. I think environment can contribute to creating a violent offender, but the idea that someone comes out of the box with the potential to be a murderer? No. I even understand Ben's dismay about the boy suddenly turning on a dime and pleading guilty, thus being behind bars for a long time if not the rest of his life, if the only other option would have been letting him out at some point, meaning he'd likely do it again, it was really the best choice.

[Maherjunkie]

I wanted juvie court anyway.  I just couldn't give up on the kid at that age.

[GHScorpiosRule]

And so we begin with a new squad commander with Lt. Anita Van Buren! And no more Paul Robinette! No word or line as to why Cragen is gone and why a seemingly naive, inexperienced Claire Kincaid has replaced the Awesome Paul.

Unlike others, I’m not a fan of Claire.

Had a great Big smile on my face as I watched Ben Stone utter the words “I’d wear clown make-up if I thought it’d get me a conviction” in “Sweeps”.

I wonder if “Black Tie” shouldn’t have been the premiere since Mike had NO issues or problems with Van Buren’s rank in the previous three episodes. That line about her rank being a skirt just came out of left field and nowhere.

Judges Mooney and Steinham-two more for the fave column!

UGH.🤬🤬😒😒😒 First appearance of smug, pretentious, and arrogant defense attorney Rothenberg. His pontificating that private investigators are also agents of the government and that those that can afford their services should be treated as cops, while his smugass face is defending a WEALTHY woman who killed her husband. NONE of his clients were poor, and he only defended the rich, so I found his hypocrisy nauseating.

[illdoc]

52 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No word or line as to why Cragen is gone and why a seemingly naive, inexperienced Claire Kincaid has replaced the Awesome Paul.

I have this season on DVD, which has  "extended/deleted scenes" on some episodes. I believe there's a line about where Cragen went on one episode deleted scene and where Paul went on another. It's been a while, so I don't remember where they went.

[GHScorpiosRule]

15 minutes ago, illdoc said:

I have this season on DVD, which has  "extended/deleted scenes" on some episodes. I believe there's a line about where Cragen went on one episode deleted scene and where Paul went on another. It's been a while, so I don't remember where they went.

Huh. I’ve got the first five seasons on DVD. I’ll have to pick those out. Of course we see Cragen again in Season Five’s “Bad Faith” where he’s somewhere else. And then returns to the show in SVU.

[Xeliou66]

I don’t like how they didn’t explain where Cragen and Robinette went when they left the show, of course we found out a couple of seasons later when Robinette showed up as a defense attorney and Cragen showed up as head of an anti corruption task force and then of course later as leader of SVU, but they should’ve told us that in the first episode without them.

I like Claire for the most part, at times she was overly idealistic and she had made a big mistake in sleeping with that creep judge when she was a clerk, but I like her. The only 2 ADA’s I don’t care for are Serena and Borgia. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Deleted scenes in “Discord” explains Cragen and Paul’s departures.

Cragen got promoted. I didn’t care for Mike complaining about  Van Buren; especially the crack about her putting on make-up. First, Mike wouldn’t have said that about a superior officer. So glad that didn’t make it through.

And Stone’s line about Paul leaving the DA’s office for some big Wall Street firm is such a retcon. In the first season’s “Out of the Half Light” when Paul is talking to priest, he’s frustrated when informed that the victim’s, well fake victim because Astria lied about being raped-didn’t trust him. He says how he could have gone to work on Wall Street, but close to work for the DA so he could make a difference. But he leaves to go to Wall Street? Such bullahit.🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

And DAMMIT! My season four disc is messed up so I can’t even watch “Sweeps”  so damn straight I just ordered another set.

[Xeliou66]

Sanctuary was on today, this is a very compelling episode, with a lot of good conversation between the characters. It was one of the times Stone was really furious about the outcome of the case, and it really showed in his conversation with Shambala and his interactions with Schiff, note how he called Schiff “sir” twice in this episode, something which Stone only did with Schiff when he was pissed at him. Stone was a firm believer in upholding the rule of law and I really liked that about him. I understood where both Stone and Schiff were coming from at the end, but I disagreed with Schiff that they couldn’t find a jury that would convict - I think if Shambala hadn’t been able to call Berger, they would’ve convicted, Berger was somewhat racist and elitist and it showed, and I think some of the jury was so enraged that he didn’t go to jail for the hit and run that they understood the defendant’s rage. If in the next trial the judge prevented Shambala from putting Berger on the stand, I think the jury would’ve convicted, so I think they should’ve re-tried the case, although I understood why Schiff wanted to end everything so the city could heal. I also loved Van Buren telling the reverend that no one came into her station and accused her detectives of giving preferential treatment to suspects, that was an awesome moment for her. It’s a gripping episode and one of season 4’s best.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Xeliou66

[Xeliou66]

I would’ve loved a follow up to the episode Kids, which was just on, episode 15 of this season. It’s where the son of an ex cop that Lennie knows shot at a gun dealer he was afraid would kill him and killed an innocent kid by mistake, and just when the kid was about to accept a plea, the gun dealer who was the key witness gets shot, and they come to suspect the kid’s dad orchestrated the shooting of the gun dealer to get his son off - the jury deadlocked. At the end Briscoe reminds the ex cop that there’s no statute of limitations on murder. I would’ve loved a follow up to this where they uncover evidence against the ex cop and his corrupt buddies who killed the gun dealer, that would’ve been a great follow up episode. The dad was scum, the son was sympathetic as he was genuinely scared and was remorseful, and he seemed horrified when Stone confronted the dad outside the courthouse about getting the witness killed. 

[TotalDrama]

On 11/27/2021 at 10:23 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Deleted scenes in “Discord” explains Cragen and Paul’s departures.

Cragen got promoted. I didn’t care for Mike complaining about  Van Buren; especially the crack about her putting on make-up. First, Mike wouldn’t have said that about a superior officer. So glad that didn’t make it through.

And Stone’s line about Paul leaving the DA’s office for some big Wall Street firm is such a retcon. In the first season’s “Out of the Half Light” when Paul is talking to priest, he’s frustrated when informed that the victim’s, well fake victim because Astria lied about being raped-didn’t trust him. He says how he could have gone to work on Wall Street, but close to work for the DA so he could make a difference. But he leaves to go to Wall Street? Such bullahit.🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

And DAMMIT! My season four disc is messed up so I can’t even watch “Sweeps”  so damn straight I just ordered another set.

Not really a retcon. He could have easily changed his mind, One could choose not to work a job and pursue something else in the meantime only to find themselves finding value later what they turned down initially. You can never really predict the future and mindsets can change, Bottom line is, he became a defense attorney like a lot of ADAs do so him working on Wall Street isn't too far-fetched when he has a defense mindset now. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by TotalDrama

[Prairie Rose]

S4 was one of the strongest seasons the Mothership had. I wonder why "Discord" was swapped out for "Sweeps" as the season premiere, and why "Sanctuary" wasn't the season finale instead of "Old Friends".

Years ago, before I owned a DVD player, I had a 6 episode VHS box set of L&O's best episodes up to that point. "Sanctuary" was one of them. (The other episodes included were "Indifference", " Conspiracy ", "Manhood", "American Dream", and "White Rabbit".) Everyone was fantastic, but Michael Moriarty should definitely have won the Emmy for this episode. (He was nominated - and lost to Dennis Franz of NYPD Blue. The clip aired on the Emmy broadcast was his dialogue with Shambala Green.)

"Sanctuary" had the feeling of a season finale, and it would have been more interesting to see Ben Stone resign on principle than by the death of a witness. In any case, it is still one of the all-time best L&O episodes ever made and the content hasn't aged a bit. 

[Xeliou66]

I’ve also wondered about whether Sanctuary would’ve been a better finale than Old Friends, and while I agree it might have been more compelling to see Stone resign over principles, I would’ve hated to have seen him and Schiff’s relationship end on a sour note, and I liked Stone’s exit in Old Friends, particularly his warm goodbye with Schiff. Both are good episodes, and I agree that Sanctuary is a gripping, intense episode.

[Prairie Rose]

I wonder which episode was taped first. MM gave his notice in January 1994. 

Anyway, the final Stone/Schiff scene was beautiful. "I'm as clear as a bell."

[Xeliou66]

44 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

I wonder which episode was taped first. MM gave his notice in January 1994. 

Anyway, the final Stone/Schiff scene was beautiful. "I'm as clear as a bell."

Agreed, the final Stone/Schiff scene was terrific and moving, that’s one reason why I’m glad Stone’s exit was in Old Friends so he got a warm goodbye with Schiff.