S14.E18: Hold Back the River

[Chas411]

Jackson and Maggie were handholding on the way out of the hospital. Surely if they're that public Jackson would have had the decency to let his ex wife and coworker know.

i feel this ridiculous development is just yet another attempt by the writers to have Jackson remind Maggie of how awesome she is. Given the entire relationship is based on everyone TALKING about the apparent sparks between them I fully expect the sisters and even April to remind the audience.

[AnnieHeights]

1 hour ago, moonorchid said:

Could you elaborate about what your issue is with Jackson? Im really curious to know. 

I am not really sure......I think he is beautiful, it just might be his acting.  I just cannot think of a storyline where I truly liked him, he just seems more like eye candy than depth maybe?  if he left the show I wouldn't care either way. 

[izabella]

What were those tests that Dr. Fake Cancer and April were doing on Arizona?  Was that an ultra sound?  Is that a thing?   If so, why aren't ALL mammograms done that way instead of the painful, breast-squishing, cancer-causing X Ray way?

Edited April 6, 2018 by izabella

[anna0852]

The the fraud doctor was doing an ultrasound on Arizona. I think that is used following a mammogram if the mammogram results are inconclusive. I have to say one of the funniest parts of the episode was Arizona and Owen in the office, 1st the waiting room scene including the discussion of Yelp reviews and then Owen trying to be convincing as Arizona's husband while also intensely uncomfortable by the fact that her boobs are showing.

[izabella]

7 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

The the fraud doctor was doing an ultrasound on Arizona. I think that is used following a mammogram if the mammogram results are inconclusive.

So it sounds like the ultrasounds are more accurate than x-ray mammograms. if that's what they do to verify.  Now I'm mad they don't do the ultrasounds instead of x-rays.  WTF?  Why torture women with a painful test that could cause cancer and has lots of false positives and negatives when there is a nice, non-invasive, non-cancer causing way to do it that is more accurate?   I hate our medical industry.

[Biggie B]

It's not that ultrasounds are more accurate, it's that they present a different view. I'm a breast cancer survivor, and have had more than enough mammograms and ultrasounds to last a lifetime. Let me just say, that there are different types of ultrasounds, too - the one that ultimately pinpointed my tumor wasn't just the technician gently running the device softly over my boob - she pressed down with the strength of an ox, and it lasted for far, far longer than the 3 or 4 seconds of the mammogram, as she had to get many different angles. It took over 15 minutes, and I was sobbing in agony the entire time. Give me a mammogram any day of the week!! Also, there are now much more sophisticated mammograms that can be done (3-D) that also give the radiologist a different view. The density of your breasts also plays a factor. I am not a trained radiologist or surgeon, but I don't think that doing away with mammograms would be appropriate just yet. Mine ultimately saved my life, as the result is what prompted the ultrasound to be done. But it was the mammogram that first alerted the doctor that there was something there. 

[izabella]

18 minutes ago, Biggie B said:

It's not that ultrasounds are more accurate, it's that they present a different view. I'm a breast cancer survivor, and have had more than enough mammograms and ultrasounds to last a lifetime. Let me just say, that there are different types of ultrasounds, too - the one that ultimately pinpointed my tumor wasn't just the technician gently running the device softly over my boob - she pressed down with the strength of an ox, and it lasted for far, far longer than the 3 or 4 seconds of the mammogram, as she had to get many different angles. It took over 15 minutes, and I was sobbing in agony the entire time. Give me a mammogram any day of the week!! Also, there are now much more sophisticated mammograms that can be done (3-D) that also give the radiologist a different view. The density of your breasts also plays a factor. I am not a trained radiologist or surgeon, but I don't think that doing away with mammograms would be appropriate just yet. Mine ultimately saved my life, as the result is what prompted the ultrasound to be done. But it was the mammogram that first alerted the doctor that there was something there. 

Thank you so much for your insights!  I'm so glad they were able to find your cancer and help you.

[Joana]

11 hours ago, GSMHvisitor said:

I think Koracick would have done Alex a favour by reporting him. Not to HR, because then he could have gotten fired and I don't want that. But I wanted him to report Alex to Bailey so badly after seeing the promo. And then I wanted Bailey to order him to take some counseling sessions if he wants to keep his job. Because he needs to face some consequences already and more than that I want him to finally confront his issues.

The same Bailey who, after the whole De Luca debacle said, and I quote her literally, that "Alex would never hurt a fly"? 

Arizona's and Owen's interaction seemed a bit random in a "Rachel and Chandler steal their neighbour's cheesecake" kind of way, but it was actually really nice and definitely the highlight of the episode for me. It's refreshing to see people communicate with those outside their little cliques, they both pulled it off very well and Owen managed not to be obnoxious for a change. Maaaaaybe he got a bit over the top with that scumbag fake doctor at the end, but we'll look past that. Speaking of which, that storyline definitely felt extremely familiar and definitely something I've seen on another show, but for the life of me I can't recall which. I don't think it was a medical drama - maybe something along the lines of CSI or Elementary?

Gosh, what would this show be without a love triangle? Or a dozen. And I see another one in the making with Owen/Amelia/Teddy. Also, what's with Owen and his ex-wives  taking charge of his future love life? It was already stupid enough when Cristina first did it. 

The kid is fine. Yay! Unfortunately, it instantly meant the other kid is doomed. Bummer. Also, the mouse is fine. Yay/yawn. Who could possibly see it coming! 

Also, I really, really wish people were apologizing TO April for either not noticing how she felt or not doing anything to help her. And don't get me started on the "When God wasn't there, you still were" nonsense.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Joana

[RedbirdNelly]

8 minutes ago, Joana said:

The same Bailey who, after the whole De Luca debacle said, and I quote her literally, that "Alex would never hurt a fly"? 

Arizona's and Owen's interaction seemed a bit random in a "Rachel and Chandler steal their neighbour's cheesecake" kind of way, but it was actually really nice and definitely the highlight of the episode for me. It's refreshing to see people communicate with those outside their little cliques, they both pulled it off very well and Owen managed not to be obnoxious for a change.

 

completely agree with the above.

I so hated the "would never hurt a fly" line. Total crap. But I ultimately blame the writers for writing themselves into a corner. Having Alex go that nuts boxed them into a corner and they did a poor job getting out of it. Jo and everyone else should absolutely be concerned about Alex's anger issues and go-to-reaction of physical violence. Seriously--if your colleague grabbed Dr. K like that, who would be cool with that?

[Layne]

17 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

Because Jackson “declared” himself to her right after Game night, so to find out he slept with his ex after that was a punch to the gut.

When did he sleep with his ex? 

[RedbirdNelly]

12 minutes ago, Layne said:

When did he sleep with his ex? 

I think Chitowngirl meant that Maggie thought she'd found out that Jackson slept with his ex. He did not sleep with April after getting together with Maggie--he just did that when they were at the cabin and that was pre Maggie.

[NUguy514]

23 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

completely agree with the above.

I so hated the "would never hurt a fly" line. Total crap. But I ultimately blame the writers for writing themselves into a corner. Having Alex go that nuts boxed them into a corner and they did a poor job getting out of it. Jo and everyone else should absolutely be concerned about Alex's anger issues and go-to-reaction of physical violence. Seriously--if your colleague grabbed Dr. K like that, who would be cool with that?

Yep, for Jo especially, after getting out of a horribly abusive marriage, you would think she would not be keen to jump into another relationship/marriage with someone who has demonstrable, historical anger issues and whom she saw beat a friend and colleague almost to death right in front of her.  But, of course, Alex "would never hurt a fly" and was honorable in his misplaced intentions to protect Jo's virtue from Blandrew, so bygones!

[Joana]

Of course. Whenever he's about to beat someone to a pulp, it's only because HE JUST CARES SO MUCH. 

[RedbirdNelly]

1 minute ago, Joana said:

Of course. Whenever he's about to beat someone to a pulp, it's only because HE JUST CARES SO MUCH. 

and of course, that is so comforting and no abusive spouse has ever used that as an excuse. Not.

It's just the worst writing.

[WhosThatGirl]

50 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

completely agree with the above.

I so hated the "would never hurt a fly" line. Total crap. But I ultimately blame the writers for writing themselves into a corner. Having Alex go that nuts boxed them into a corner and they did a poor job getting out of it. Jo and everyone else should absolutely be concerned about Alex's anger issues and go-to-reaction of physical violence. Seriously--if your colleague grabbed Dr. K like that, who would be cool with that?

 

22 minutes ago, NUguy514 said:

Yep, for Jo especially, after getting out of a horribly abusive marriage, you would think she would not be keen to jump into another relationship/marriage with someone who has demonstrable, historical anger issues and whom she saw beat a friend and colleague almost to death right in front of her.  But, of course, Alex "would never hurt a fly" and was honorable in his misplaced intentions to protect Jo's virtue from Blandrew, so bygones!

 

19 minutes ago, RedbirdNelly said:

and of course, that is so comforting and no abusive spouse has ever used that as an excuse. Not.

It's just the worst writing.

Everything about all these posts! It’s how I’ve felt.

And yeah I completely get why Alex got no repercussions, they couldn’t do anything to him JC is a main cast member. In fact, one of the four originals left on the show at this point. And we all knew he wasn’t leaving, so.. we knew what was going to happen more than likely. Yes the show last season was doing promos acting like Alex was going to be sent to jail or whatever, but.. nothing happened. Because it couldn’t. But again the least they could have done is given Alex mandatory counseling.

Also yeah.. I’m not sure if we’re even supposed to remember Alex beating DeLuca to a plub when he attacked his fellow colleague last night. This show is now suffering from having a lot of seasons that they are cherry picking what they want as it fits the story. 

[pennben]

Another bit that had me laughing last night was hearing Amelia's end of her phone call to Teddy...."unhuh......unhuh.....unhuh........unhuh....unhuh" hangs up phone "Yeah, that's not happening".  Hee! Well played by Scorsone. 

Edited April 6, 2018 by pennben

[Layne]

8 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

As heartfelt as her apology was to Jackson and to Maggie.. April most definitely dropped that “jumped my ex husband” bomb on purpose then scurried off… You ain’t slick April… We see you out here… Don’t mind it as long as it doesn’t end in a fight for Jackson… I don’t wanna sit thru that

As far as April knows, Jackson is still seeing Priya. He brought Priya to Maggie's house, so April probably thinks Maggie and Jackson are just friends now and that Maggie doesn't care who Jackson messes with. 

[Efzee]

Gosh, what a snore fest. I think the only interesting scene was April with the neurologist with the difficult-to-spell name. And I've never been an April fan up until her crisis of faith, even though that was a bit much at certain points.

Who wants to see Bailey have sexy times with her husband? Like Booty Call Bailey wasn't bad enough to suffer through.

Deluca and his girlfriend whose name I can't be bothered to remember are so boring. Why spend time on them at all? They're not a cute couple. He's regressed since she entered the scene, not that I was ever a fan of his. But it all went downhill from his first appearance.

I'm not invested in the annoying giggling/seizure boy or the miracle laser tumor melting operation the dream team came up with. Nor am I a fan of Kimmy. Remind me why I should like her? Because she can sing? She's just an annoying whiny kid who happens to have cancer. This is a medical drama, not a kids show so please limit the annoying child patients or at least make them interesting like we've seen is possible in the past.

I was also under the impression Webber's sponsor died a long time ago. Guess she didn't leave much of an impact and there was certainly never a hint of them having weekly conversations, never mind thrice weekly or on a daily basis for twenty years. Also, he annoyed the crap out of me by refusing to abide by her wishes and "forcing" two doctors on her. Also, huge waste of time to "make" the head of general surgery (right?) and cardio focus solely on this patient who doesn't even want medical help just because he's being an unprofessional douche. Also, didn't care in the slightest for Meredith and Maggie working together or Maggie's scene with Webber. Maggie just annoys me. Never warmed to her and things only got worse when she behaved awfully when her mother was sick and then the whole Webber and now Jackson thing. Ugh.

Meredith's research is mildly interesting. I just don't get the huge focus on the polymere and then suddenly they don't need one anymore. Also, I can't take it seriously when the show thinks any MD can do scientific research *and* that all these residents and attendings have time to spend all day with their pet projects. I was actually kinda hoping Meredith's research wouldn't come to fruition but just to stick to her "aunt" whose name I've forgotten, she would have published her theory anyway and thereby made it possible for everyone in the scientific community to do their own research with a different polymere or to create a polymere to make the procedure work.

ETA:

Also, ugh on the Jackson with April talk and April going around apologizing for everything she did while supposedly blind drunk (great memory recall). Oh and I wasn't touched by the fake cancer story plot at all. I was wondering why Arizona suddenly got emotional because it was pretty obvious to me this doctor (if he's even one) was faking diagnoses so of course the man would have a fake ultrasound. His machine probably didn't even work and just showed one good recording and one cancer recording. So obvious. Also, I much prefer the fake cancer storyline in The Resident, so maybe that's why I didn't care. Also, so over useless Arizona. Why doesn't she go back to doing the fetal surgeries her mentor taught her while dying? That was supposed to be a big thing. And Owen. Man, so over that guy. Have been for ages but I really don't need another angry cave man. Alex' awful violent behavior is bad enough.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Efzee

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, pennben said:

Another bit that had me laughing last night was hearing Amelia's end of her phone call to Teddy...."unhuh......unhuh.....unhuh........unhuh....unhuh" hangs up phone "Yeah, that's not happening".  Hee! Well played by Scorsone. 

I thought Amelia trying to practically give away Owen to Teddy was hilarious.

7 hours ago, Pallas said:

Dr. Five Stars committed patient abuse and insurance fraud. The evidence was on hand in his office: the machine that created the phony ultrasounds. Along with the patient files that probably contain either no scans, or the same one. Coupled with depositions from former patients who explained his MO, from phony diagnosis, through "stages of recovery," to cure. 

He also committed assault by injecting his patients with the cancer drugs which are both painful and dangerous.  I was very glad that Owen didn't actually stick him with the needle.

4 hours ago, Biggie B said:

It's not that ultrasounds are more accurate, it's that they present a different view. I'm a breast cancer survivor, and have had more than enough mammograms and ultrasounds to last a lifetime. Let me just say, that there are different types of ultrasounds, too - the one that ultimately pinpointed my tumor wasn't just the technician gently running the device softly over my boob - she pressed down with the strength of an ox, and it lasted for far, far longer than the 3 or 4 seconds of the mammogram, as she had to get many different angles. It took over 15 minutes, and I was sobbing in agony the entire time. Give me a mammogram any day of the week!! Also, there are now much more sophisticated mammograms that can be done (3-D) that also give the radiologist a different view. The density of your breasts also plays a factor. I am not a trained radiologist or surgeon, but I don't think that doing away with mammograms would be appropriate just yet. Mine ultimately saved my life, as the result is what prompted the ultrasound to be done. But it was the mammogram that first alerted the doctor that there was something there. 

Ugh. That sounds much worse than even mine, which was a needle biopsy and not fun at all. The mammograms was what caught the problem in the first place though, followed by an ultrasound and the biopsy.

One thing the show did right:  I was wondering why the woman still had all her hair, and then she said that she had just received her second dose of cancer drugs. It wasn't until after the second dose that my hair started falling out.

Of course Magic Meredith doesn't need any polymers now.  sigh.  That's one of the things that really pulls me out of the show.

I wish that they could keep Koracick; he's a breath of fresh air on this show.

[RedSoxRock]

I had one thing I didn’t understand. They saved laughing boy’s life but did they destroy the tumor? Because he was still laughing!

[pennben]

I think they were playing with us a bit there on the boy with the tumor.  At first, we see him finally awake but laughing, so we were to wonder whether he was cured.  Then they shifted the camera shot to behind him, so that we could see he was watching a cartoon so that we knew his laughter was normal now, not a symptom.   

[Joana]

And it was actually a rather subtle move for this show's standards. 

[RedSoxRock]

I missed that. Thanks!

[Violet Penner]

5 hours ago, Joana said:

Definitely something I've seen on another show, but for the life of me I can't recall which. I don't think it was a medical drama - maybe something along the lines of CSI or Elementary?

Do you watch The Resident?  It reminded me of a storyline on that show where they are suggesting a Doctor is over-treating patients w chemo, hiding medical records, etc. 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Violet Penner

[hoosiermom]

Being in recovery for 20 years, this episode really touched my heart. And yes, I even shed a tear or two. ?

[Evenshorter]

Was the fake cancer doctor Michael Novotny from Queer as Folk? Can't remember his real name because I couldn't stand that character.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Evenshorter

[Violet Penner]

35 minutes ago, Evenshorter said:

Was the fake cancer doctor Michael Novotny from Queer as Folk? Can't remember his real name because I couldn't stand that character.

Hal Sparks, yep!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

19 hours ago, RedbirdNelly said:

the fact the guy is not a member of an oncology standard group is not proof of anything besides "maybe his credentials are lacking." A doctor doing cancer treatment would be expected to be a part of the Oncology Society or whatever it is called--but there is no law saying he has to be. And certainly failure to be a member (if there was such law) wouldn't result in the police taking off to arrest you. It would mean the licensure board may investigate and impose sanctions or pull your license. Maybe a fine. Anyway, I felt like the show expected me to be deeply inspired by Owen taking off to fix this. Instead I was distracted by "Owen's about to commit assault."

Not just "Owen's about to commit assault" but also justifying it to his coworkers by reminding them that they told him not to take his anger out on the interns. But by all means, go assault a doctor at his office! Don't get me wrong - that doctor is a HORRIBLE person for what he's done to all of these women and their families. But what Owen did was revenge fantasy vigilantism, not something you should actually do in real life.

And I agree that merely not being listed as a member of the American Society of Clinical Oncology is not proof of anything. Maybe his office manager forgot to pay his dues. Maybe the email for his membership renewal got dumped into his junk box and he doesn't even know that his membership has lapsed. Maybe he uses his middle name professionally but his membership is listed under his first name. Maybe Owen misspelled the guy's name when searching the ASCO database. Maybe there are other things he'd rather spend $600/year on. Maybe he just decided that he didn't want to be a member. Maybe he has an issue with their journals (in recent years, some scientists have openly protested against journals that don't have open access or charge publication fees by refusing to submit manuscripts to them or support them financially in any way, which can include membership fees to their professional societies). I'm not defending what this guy did at all, but not being a member of an optional professional society isn't automatically a huge DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUN the way Owen made it seem.

It would be one thing if he found out the guy didn't have a medical license, but not being a member of a society? Really not a big deal. I work for an MD who does research and for the most part, the professional societies where he has memberships are the ones where he actually attends the annual conferences (there's often a discount on registration if you're a member). There are other professional societies in his field of specialty where he is not a member. Heh, I'd also like to point out that you can only view the ASCO membership if you are a member so am I supposed to believe that Owen is a member even though he doesn't do anything cancer related?

[jcbrown]

19 hours ago, pennben said:

I think they were playing with us a bit there on the boy with the tumor.  At first, we see him finally awake but laughing, so we were to wonder whether he was cured.  Then they shifted the camera shot to behind him, so that we could see he was watching a cartoon so that we knew his laughter was normal now, not a symptom.   

I totally missed this, too. I was wondering the same thing that @RedSoxRock asked.

19 hours ago, Joana said:

And it was actually a rather subtle move for this show's standards. 

I think that's why I missed it. I was expecting to dodge flying anvils and they surprised me with a more subtle approach.

[jschoolgirl]

The boy's laughter did sound a bit different.

[proserpina65]

On ‎04‎/‎06‎/‎2018 at 5:22 PM, Efzee said:

I was also under the impression Webber's sponsor died a long time ago. Guess she didn't leave much of an impact and there was certainly never a hint of them having weekly conversations, never mind thrice weekly or on a daily basis for twenty years. Also, he annoyed the crap out of me by refusing to abide by her wishes and "forcing" two doctors on her. Also, huge waste of time to "make" the head of general surgery (right?) and cardio focus solely on this patient who doesn't even want medical help just because he's being an unprofessional douche.

The sponsor was in the same episode as Denny's LVAD surgery in Season 2 - the one with the superstition regarding people dying in multiples.  She survived her surgery.

They're very big on ignoring DNRs at Seattle Grace Mercy Death.

[RedbirdNelly]

31 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

 

They're very big on ignoring DNRs at Seattle Grace Mercy Death.

I agree and get so tired of it.

[katisha]

On 07/04/2018 at 12:30 PM, Evenshorter said:

Was the fake cancer doctor Michael Novotny from Queer as Folk? Can't remember his real name because I couldn't stand that character.

 

I loved QAF so I am always happy to see cast members in other roles. Hal Sparks looked so much older but then I guess QAF was on quite a long time ago now.

Edited April 15, 2018 by katisha

[Evenshorter]

4 hours ago, katisha said:

I loved QAF so I am always happy to see cast members in other roles. Hal Sparks looked so much older but then I guess QAF was on quite a long time ago now.

I know, it was one of my all time favourite shows(when they sold off a lot of the props after the show was over, I bought a couple of things). I didn't recognize "Michael" at first, just that I knew him from somewhere...