S06.E17: Brothers in Arms

[formerlyfreedom]

Oliver and Diggle face their biggest challenge yet. Curtis is disappointed to find out his new boyfriend has a firm anti-vigilante stance.

[BkWurm1]

That one hurt.  It was far better done than I hoped but oh, the pain.  

And next week?  More pain.  

Also, are we really supposed to think that Oliver has been making bad choices?  Because that's not what has been on the screen.  

[JJ928]

Not as bad as I expected... but still bullshit lol.

I did NOT need that Siren/Diaz image in my head. Eww he's so nasty.

[Primal Slayer]

Look at this point, even I am tired of this back and forth, is she, isn't she evil with Black Siren. If she and Diaz are going to be an item just let this be the end of it, let her be a straight up villain, stop with what looks like a bit of a struggle....

 

Everything else....

This season...

 

So now there are 3 teams operating in Star City...ok...Diggle and Oliver fought....ok....they spewed some VENOM at each other so I guess im glad that it didnt get wrapped up in a pretty bow.

But I am just kind of ready for S7 to start? Or possibly not even have to deal with? 

[janeta]

And it looks like Felicity will also have a personality transplant next week. Ugh.

[bethy]

1 minute ago, janeta said:

And it looks like Felicity will also have a personality transplant next week. Ugh.

She and Diggle had a two-for-one deal, maybe.

[apinknightmare]

Katie, girl...I am so sorry you had to do that. 

[insomniadreams88]

I wish I had been able to be on Diggle's side a bit, but I was 100% on Oliver's side. And I liked how much I liked Oliver in this episode. He was the one making sense, while Diggle was ... I don't even know.

Loved seeing Lyla again, loved that she pointed out that he saves people as Spartan. Liked her suggesting they work together. I just wish that almost everything we heard out of Diggle until those last scenes wasn't what we got.

I am going to need more Oliver/Felicity scenes, show. Also, going to need Oliver to touch Felicity. I feel like we keep seeing her reach out to him and that's it?

Don't even get me started on Black Siren. Wishing I could un-see BS/Diaz. Do not understand Lance going, "hey, be a lawyer, read these books." And of course it backfires on them.

WAY TOO MUCH on Curtis and his love life. Do not care. Don't mind the BF, but can't stand Curtis.

Oh, and someone explain how the captain can fire cops after she's already been fired? Or do they just not care about making sense with this? 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, janeta said:

And it looks like Felicity will also have a personality transplant next week. Ugh.

That or it's one of Oliver's hallucinations when he's on Vertigo.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Guest

[BunsenBurner]

The vertigo that Diaz gave BS is for Oliver, right?

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Katie, girl...I am so sorry you had to do that. 

What did she do? Have sex with Diaz?

[KenyaJ]

I’m tired. This show makes me tired. Watching a show that twists its characters into pretzels to make storylines happen is tiring.

Diggle broke Oliver’s heart and mine, because I don’t understand him or his revisionist history right now. And that’s all I’m going to say about that, because why should I spend any more time trying to make this make sense than the writers did?

And I wish I’d thought to read some law books instead of wasting 3 years of my life on law school. If only I was as smart as Quentin, maybe I wouldn’t be so tired right now.

Now I need to go throw up from that last scene with Dragon and BS. I'm disgusted. Beyond.

[SleepDeprived]

What a confusing episode. I still don't understand Diggle and his beef with Oliver even though the writers pretty much did their best at twisting his reasoning every which way just to make it seem like it made sense? They didn't succeed but whatever. It was a pretty entertaining episode, though, 'cause, at least, the episode focused a lot on OTA (and Lyla). I cheered when Curtis got shot, though. Lol.

Me @ Curtis getting shot:

Me, when they showed that the shot didn't kill him:

[Guest]

Well. SA and DR knocked it out of the park in their big scene but the whole thing was a big steaming pile of bullshit. Everything Diggle attacked Oliver with was one of the things the newbies had said so they tainted a 6 year friendship for three garbage characters. Well done. 

[tennisgurl]

This fight hurts my very soul. John and Oliver should NOT be in a bad place! And are we supposed to be on Johns side? Because everything thats gone wrong this season hasn't been Oliver's fault. I think he is actually being pretty mature and responsible this year, but everyone is acting like he is still acting like season 1 Oliver. Its ridiculous. And sometimes it seems like John is supposed to be acting weird, and sometimes we`re supposed to be on his side to an extent. 

Oliver is just having a terrible year. I thought last year was going to be his worst year, but this year is somehow becoming even worse. At least last year he had John. He just looks like he is on the verge of a total meltdown. Everyone keeps yelling at him! 

I give exactly zero fucks about Curtis and his romance. He choose being a third rate vigilante over his own husband. Why should I care about his boring romance? 

Ewwwww Diaz and BS. Do not want. 

[BunsenBurner]

I’m probably wrong but I remember a tweet by DR around the end of Season 5(?) where he was driving to Seattle. He was questioning a decision or some aspect of his life and if he was going to make a mistake. Could this story line be it?

[catrox14]

I haven't seen the episode but I don't know. BS and Diaz seems like a good gross match.

[tennisgurl]

3 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

Diggle broke Oliver’s heart and mine, because I don’t understand him or his revisionist history right now. And that’s all I’m going to say about that, because why should I spend any more time trying to make this make sense than the writers did?

 

Yeah, I thought Chase was going to totally break Oliver, but as it turns out, Chase just needed to wait for Oliver's own best friend to do that. 

[jay741982]

10 minutes ago, janeta said:

And it looks like Felicity will also have a personality transplant next week. Ugh.

Such Bullshit I FUCKING HATE THESE WRITERS WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY WRITING THIS GARBAGE!!!

[KenyaJ]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

I haven't seen the episode but I don't know. BS and Diaz seems like a good gross match.

Oh, they deserve each other, no doubt. We just don't deserve to have to see it. ???

[apinknightmare]

9 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

Diggle broke Oliver’s heart and mine, because I don’t understand him or his revisionist history right now. And that’s all I’m going to say about that, because why should I spend any more time trying to make this make sense than the writers did?

It's especially hurtful to watch because Diggle has spent 6 years encouraging Oliver and helping him down the path to becoming a better man. And now that he's done that Diggle's like "Yeah that's great but now you're totally a shit leader." And...he's not? He's done all the right things this season. I don't get it - and I hate it. 

If they wanted it to get this far all they had to do was have Jean Loring tell Quentin that someone was going to testify against Oliver - have Oliver ASSUME it was one of the newbies and be wrong about it. Instead they had Rene actually flip, Dinah hiding something huge, and Curtis being a hypocrite. Same thing with John! All the bad stuff currently happening that he's blaming Oliver for happened under HIS watch. Like....god these writers are such hacks. I mean, I knew this - but it's always astounding how they mess up things that should be so easy. 

Edited April 6, 2018 by apinknightmare

[Mrs. de Winter]

This show is exhausting - and not in a good, fun way.  I hate - and want a painful death for a majority of characters.   I think the show has finally broken me.

If they are all so sure they can do a better job than Oliver they should take their Halloween costumes to another city and have at it.  As much as I have not always enjoyed Oliver's habit of taking the blame for everything bad that happens, it is a hell of a lot better and more mature than these asses who blame everyone else for their bad choices/decisions.  

At least DR and SA were up to the acting challenge - but even that does not disguise the fact that this fight is beyond stupid and out of the blue.  I now assume the writers fill out a bunch of cards with random ideas at the beginning of the season and then draw from then randomly to write each episode.  And whichever one wrote the idea of Curtis having a love life is the first one who should be fired.  

The only way any of this is worth it is if Curtis survived being shot so that later his new boyfriend can stab him to death in this sleep.  Repeatedly - to be 100% sure it takes.  

[Guest]

What is up with SA/Oliver not touching Felicity in their quiet scenes together? It's becoming really noticeable and just seems odd, especially in that scene in front of their bedroom window.

[ladylaw99]

Insulted and gross out in one episode of Arrow - sounds about right. It was better than I thought - better meaning the acting not the story cause I can't make sense of Diggle and frankly I too am not going to waste my time trying.

I feel like a chump, all those years of school and all that money spent when all I had to do was read a few law books. Colour me stupid.

I too am on the train of having Oliver reach out to Felicity, you know your wife, gosh what does a girl have to do to see some affection between these two. They acted more married in season 4 than they do now.  Give me something and I don't mean Curtis and his useless relationship- he is probably dead by the end of the season so stop wasting scenes on them.

Thanks to that last scene I need to go clean my eyes out and hope to never see that disgusting visual again.

[Chaser]

I miss S4a touchiness. 

[catrox14]

9 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

Oh, they deserve each other, no doubt. We just don't deserve to have to see it. ???

Okay. That I totally get LOL

[Hiveminder]

Well this all sounds stupid and awful. I didn’t watch tonight or last week, and I’m not sure when I will again. I might just wait until this season is on Netflix and have it running in the background so I don’t have to devote my attention to this dreck. 

Why do these writers think we want to watch beloved characters turn into nonsensical pod people or be constantly put through the ringer season after season after season? Like, damn, give Oliver Queen a break. Jesus. 

[Lady Calypso]

I will say the acting was solid, and even the writing, on the surface, was decent. It was the story in itself that was shit. 

I'll give some credit to the actual writers of this episode, since it's not their fault they were given this storyline to write: they actually tried really hard at showing Diggle's point of view. I respect what they did. 

The blame goes on the showrunners and whoever else decided that Oliver needed to lose another team member.

[Guest]

Diggle has had an issue with ARGUS for years and now he's gonna go and work with them. That's how you know how bad this is. LOL.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

What is up with SA/Oliver not touching Felicity in their quiet scenes together? It's becoming really noticeable and just seems odd, especially in that scene in front of their bedroom window.

Hasn't it just been the last two? When he was berating himself in the lair and then berating himself by the window? He was pretty touchy with her in the scene where they talked about their honeymoon - I think maybe he meant to play it like Oliver not feeling like he deserved comfort. He was the one who went in for their last kiss in the lair, though. Am I forgetting a scene?

[BkWurm1]

22 minutes ago, janeta said:

And it looks like Felicity will also have a personality transplant next week. Ugh.

I will wait for context before I judge.  

[Guest]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

Hasn't it just been the last two? When he was berating himself in the lair and then berating himself by the window? He was pretty touchy with her in the scene where they talked about their honeymoon - I think maybe he meant to play it like Oliver not feeling like he deserved comfort. He was the one who went in for their last kiss in the lair, though. Am I forgetting a scene?

IDK, lately it just feels in all of their scenes she's the one who goes to him and reaches for him and he just kind of stands here. I haven't had too much of an issue with it because I don't view Oliver as someone who is overly affectionate but it's starting to bug me a bit tbh.

[BkWurm1]

14 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

What is up with SA/Oliver not touching Felicity in their quiet scenes together? It's becoming really noticeable and just seems odd, especially in that scene in front of their bedroom window.

I suspect it will play into Oliver

Spoiler

 pushing her away in the next episode

 

, like him not leaning into her comfort was him not allowing him to have it fully.  

Edited April 6, 2018 by BkWurm1

[SleepDeprived]

I just remembered something that was a happy surprise for me in this episode. Emily Bett Rickards is now billed third in the credits. The credits now go SA, DR, then EBR! This pleases me.

[KenyaJ]

10 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Hasn't it just been the last two? When he was berating himself in the lair and then berating himself by the window? He was pretty touchy with her in the scene where they talked about their honeymoon - I think maybe he meant to play it like Oliver not feeling like he deserved comfort. He was the one who went in for their last kiss in the lair, though. Am I forgetting a scene?

I had the exact same thoughts. It makes total sense to me that Oliver is shutting down emotionally right now. Two episodes ago, they were holding hands walking down the steps in the bunker. I'm not worried about the lack of touching because it makes sense right now and because we know how committed SA is to touching EBR when it's appropriate.

Edited April 6, 2018 by KenyaJ

[Chaser]

I’m watching now.

DR and SA are killing their scenes. I feel like they haven’t gone full throttle like this in a long time. I admire that commitment cause that dialogue makes no sense. 

[Chaser]

The lack of Delicity is making me angry.

Lance is still riding the creepy train. He isn’t trying to get to know BS at all, he’s just trying to get her to play the part of ‘Laurel’.  And she’s literally studying for it .

[BkWurm1]

I think what this episode needed to actually sell it is anything in the past episodes that showed Oliver not having time to deal with everything on his plate and something getting messed up because of it.  We've seen him running and everyone on the team tired, but they always get everything done EXCEPT where the newbs having bailed on them got in the way.  And how is that Oliver's fault for being Mayor, a husband, a father, and the GA?  (Also DIggle, you are also married with a kid and a kid that is younger and more demanding so next time leave those issues out of the complaint)

I can see Diggle deciding that if they hadn't alienated the newbs, most of these other issues wouldn't be happening but when Diggle protested looking into them, he didn't fight to have his way.  He objected, Oliver said why they needed to do it and John seemingly agreed.  And when Dinah was looking at him for backup, he didn't give it.  And Oliver DID go try to make peace with the newbs as he asked but was rejected.  And the idea that Oliver should have let Rene shoot him or cleave him with an axe so that Rene and the NTA wouldn't be so pissed, is absurd.  

I feel like the crux of the matter is Diggle is frustrated with the constant losses and rather than blame the newbs for being babies, he's blaming Oliver.  I mean, blaming him for not going to rescue Vince?  They were trying to save the WHOLE city.  They had run out of money.  They didn't have a way of stalling Cayden any longer.  Getting that bomb was what VInce had risked his life to do.  Oliver was putting the city first.  And I really never saw Diggle make any hint that he thought they should have gone after Vince instead so to now imply he would have made a different call is bullshit.

I think Diggle is feeling helpless and wants to at least be the guy making the choices so he doesn't feel like maybe there could have been a different outcome but I don't think he would have made different choices than Oliver and he's fooling himself if he thinks he would have.  He's frustrated that he is back to following and I could see him wanting to step to the front and do his own thing but I hate the unfair piling on he did by using the newbs hissy fit as proof that Oliver is being a bad leader and that it's current Oliver that is causing them to leave. 

And what's worse, I'm not sure I see us ever getting the OTA back again.  I think we might have lost DIggle to Argus forever.    

Edited April 6, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Trisha]

20 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'll give some credit to the actual writers of this episode, since it's not their fault they were given this storyline to write: they actually tried really hard at showing Diggle's point of view. I respect what they did. 

I agree, there was much more of an attempt to flesh out John’s feelings than I assumed there would be from the preview. I liked that he immediately admitted to Lyla that it wasn’t about the costume, which is what it seemed like the fight would hinge on leading up to this. But as much as these particular writers tried their hardest to make it work, it didn’t really fly because the whole season needed to be planting more hints of resentment from Dig over Oliver’s choices.  Dig’s repeated assertion that Oliver has spread himself too thin (as a mayor, father, husband, vigilante) makes sense on paper, except we haven’t seen that at all onscreen. If anything, Oliver seems more together this season than ever before.

Despite Dig acting woefully OOC, I didn’t hate this ep. I actually kind of liked it, mostly because the acting was so, so strong. Both SA and DR slayed. 

And yes, SA’s non-touching is getting weird. Even a few weeks ago when they were holding hands, I assumed Felicity initiated it. It’s even making me miss the days of the chaste shoulder touches. 

[KenyaJ]

3 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

And what's worse, I'm not sure I see us ever getting the OTA back again.  I think we might have lost DIggle to Argus forever.    

Which is ironic, considering that this time last year, he was pissed at Lyla for how shady and unethical Argus is.

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, KenyaJ said:

Which is ironic, considering that this time last year, he was pissed at Lyla for how shady and unethical Argus is.

I'm suddenly thinking that all this crap with the NTA was a way to shuffle out Diggle and leave the 2nd in charge spot open for Dinah.  

[JJ928]

4 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm suddenly thinking that all this crap with the NTA was a way to shuffle out Diggle and leave the 2nd in charge spot open for Dinah.  

I don't see this at all. The only way I see this happening is if David decides to leave the show, and I just don't think he will tbh.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, SleepDeprived said:

I just remembered something that was a happy surprise for me in this episode. Emily Bett Rickards is now billed third in the credits. The credits now go SA, DR, then EBR! This pleases me.

OTA with the billing they deserve. Yassss.

[tennisgurl]

I might think that this whole Diggle and Oliver riff is super super stupid...but god dang SA and DR are killing it. That scene in the bunker where they just screamed at each other was brutal, they were just selling the crap out of it. At least thats something this has over the stupid OTA vs NTA fight. Its actually well acted, and I do actually give a crap. 

Uggg, that reminds me that they seem to be re-writing history with this whole "you made the wrong call bugging the Newbies Oliver" thing. Dont pull that shit on me, show. 

[Guest]

Dinah was still sniping at Oliver at the beginning. When will she STFU and leave? I'm so tired of her. I must have said STFU like five different times when she was on screen. 

And the Curtis/boyfriend plotline was so embarrassingly underdone, what even was the point? I didn't even recognize the guy, that's how much of an impression the whole thing has made.

Basically I still hate the newbies but now I hate them 1000% more because of what they've done to Diggle to support them. Byeeeee.

[apinknightmare]

Late, but I love the insinuation that Black Siren could pass off as Lawyer Laurel just by reading a few books lmao. Such a brilliant legal mind, RIP

Edited April 6, 2018 by apinknightmare

[thegirlsleuth]

I counted 12 "Shut up (Curtis, Dinah, and one Lance)" in the live thread, along two additional "fuck yous". Thankfully, none were directed at Diggle, but I think there was a solid half page of posts including "shut up" in the Dinah scenes.

[statsgirl]

Dinah hasn't earned second spot. Nope, no way. And she's crap with the mentoring advice too

22 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think Diggle is feeling helpless and wants to at least be the guy making the choices so he doesn't feel like maybe there could have been a different outcome but I don't think he would have made different choices than Oliver and he's fooling himself if he thinks he would have.  He's frustrated that he is back to following but I could see him wanting to step to the front and do his own thing but I hate the unfair piling on he did by using the newbs hissy fit as proof that Oliver is being a bad leader and that it's current Oliver that is causing them to leave. 

And what's worse, I'm not sure I see us ever getting the OTA back again.  I think we might have lost DIggle to Argus forever.    

If there is a way to dig themselves out of the Diggle mess they've written (as opposed to the NTA mess for which there is no fix), it's for Diggle to find himself. He's a smart guy but he's also army so he's used to following orders all his life. But now Lyla is running ARGUS and Oliver is both mayor and the Green Arrow so how does Diggle fit in?  Is he going to spend the rest of his life as a second-in-command?

I could understand if being the Green Arrow and running the team both in the Summer of Love and now at the start of this season made him start thinking that he wants more.

Oliver has had multiple finding  himself moments, so has Felicity and Thea. Even Roy had his.  Let's give Diggle an arc where he finds his permanent place in the world instead f just following someone else always.

51 minutes ago, ladylaw99 said:

I feel like a chump, all those years of school and all that money spent when all I had to do was read a few law books. Colour me stupid.

 

1 hour ago, KenyaJ said:

And I wish I’d thought to read some law books instead of wasting 3 years of my life on law school. If only I was as smart as Quentin, maybe I wouldn’t be so tired right now.

Not only that, she figured out how to get back at Oliver legally when the ADA couldn't do it!  Guys, reading law books is better than going to law school!

(Although it's good to know who I can ask when I need the answer to a TV legal question.)

[Chaser]

You know, I’m wondering if it’s not that SA/Oliver is so restrained right now but it’s that EBR/Felicity is really touchy. 

[jay741982]

If anyone deserves to be second in charge its Felicity! Remember how she looked to be Boss Bitch in season 3 when Oliver was "Dead" lol