Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[statsgirl]

Sometimes I think that the action characters are the only ones they care about.

Quote

NTA was enjoyable when they were just there as supporting characters.  It's when they tried to give them equal time and status to the OTA that I found them completely intolerable.  They were not set up as main characters.  The work wasn't put in.  The affection was never established.  Just showing them more and focusing on them doesn't endear a character.  Not when it detracts from the ones you are already there for.   

As more characters get added, it's inevitable that they will take away from existing ones. People are still complaining that Oliver was good with computers until Felicity showed up.. (What SDCC2012 complaint?)  I can also see the desire to have something for the show to centre on when SA wants to leave or gets too old to continue with the action sequences the way he does now.

I think NTA could have been main characters if the writing had been there but they didn't put the work in.  They just gave them masks and action sequences and assumed it was all done.

Curtis spent too much of s6 bitching about OTA and not realizing that  feeding Felicity nanites is worse than what Oliver did.  He lost the chance to be a likable character much less an optimistic one.  If he must stay on the show, I wish they would move him back to engineering and away from software and competing with Felicity.  I think we're stuck with a screecher and maybe they can redeem Dinah in the writing.  At this point, I can see any way of making Rene a viable main character.

Edited August 14, 2018 by statsgirl

[Mellowyellow]

I loathed Curtis because in several of his scenes (which I'm not going to dig up because I can't stand his face but I think it was in the ep where Oliver only appeared for 30 secs) he was actively happy that Felicity was miserable and that Oliver had no one left. 

In fact I think there were several scenes he had where he seemed to be walking around wishing ill will on his friends (or ex friends).

And the bitchy comments during Olicity's wedding! 

Piece of shit character!!!!!! Grrrrrrr

He reminds of the typical "nice guy" who goes around complaining that they come last because "nice guys come last" and you want to sit them down, slap the shit out of them and explain that they are a whiny man child with a crap personality and that's why they come last! 

[KenyaJ]

Yeah, I'm baffled why the writers started writing him so differently. He was annoying before, but he wasn't bitter and mean. Curtis is so incredibly petty for no reason. It's destroyed any aspect of his character that was previously enjoyable and turned his "friendship" with Felicity into a farce. I can't even buy them as believable frenemies, much less business partners. I'm praying he gets killed off this season. He outlived his usefulness two seasons ago.

[BkWurm1]

I HATED that Felicity didn't hold Curtis accountable for his actions and comments last season.  And I never really understood why she was so willing to give him that kind of slack.  Was she that hung up on them having to build a company together that she refused to makes waves?  Honestly, NOT having their own personal fight about what was happening made me see them as less of friends than I did before. Felicity is not going to pretend to be fine with her real friends.  But if she thinks they'll never get it, she'll try to tough it out and put up with it like she did for so long with her mom.  So that's what I'm left thinking, that she feels she needs to keep Curtis around but not for his friendship. 

[tennisgurl]

I think a big reason why so many people liked Rory is because he actually had a unique personality, backstory, and skill set. He had a likable dork personality like Felicity, but in a different way. He was more quiet and his sense of humor was more understated and a bit dry, plus he used magic, which already made him unique among Team Arrow. The rest of the Newbies are all just bad copies of other characters. Dinah is clearly brought on as their next Laurel, Rene is a blue collar, significantly less competent Oliver from before his character developed, and Curtis has become an asshole, diluted version of Felicity, and none of them bring anything to the table that someone else in the Arrowverse, even on this very team, can already do better. I mean, they're also awful people who are the absolute worst, but thats why it was hard to get behind them even from day one. 

If they wanted to add new people, or want to in the future, they should go for some characters who actually are different than the people we already have. Maybe another magic person, or an alien, or someone who has significantly different martial arts skills than anyone else? If we must have new characters, at least give us something that isnt the knock off brand of better characters we already love!

[tv echo]

This theory is pure speculation by Matt Mitovich, but it's interesting - Matt speculates that the mysterious new Green Arrow is future Adult William and that Felicity knows it, he also speculates that Felicity was saved from Diaz's attack by Adult William/GA before ARGUS arrived and that's why Arrow didn't show us the scene of her rescue...

That 'New Green Arrow' Theory: I Don't Love It... But Will Add to It Nonetheless!
By Matt Webb Mitovich / November 3 2018, 2:00 PM PST
https://tvline.com/2018/11/03/arrow-season-7-new-green-arrow-theory-future-william/

Quote

Some and then many, especially given the developments in Episode 2 (Felicity led grown-up William to dig up his father’s bow?), speculated that Oliver’s own son is the new Green Arrow back in 2018. But if you subscribe to that theory, it means that some form of time travel was involved, to send William — after he is well-trained by Roy — into the past to uphold his incarcerated dad’s legacy.
*  *  *
The time travel aspect is what loses me a bit, frankly, seeing as Roy isn’t the first person I think of as having Sara Lance on speed dial. But once he and William trek back to Star City, who knows who they’ll find there. So, let’s allow that time travel of some sort will transport a grown, trained and suited-up William to 2018.

This is where I add my two cents: Felicity knows that William is the new Green Arrow.

I base that on two things. For one, I found it awfully conspicuous that the season opener didn’t show Felicity being saved from Diaz’s attack in her WITSEC apartment. She later claimed that ARGUS arrived in the nick of time, but what if it was actually the new Green Arrow who intervened? After Diaz skedaddled, grown-up William revealed his identity and agenda to his stepmom. Then after that, ARGUS showed up.

Felicity being clued into the new Green Arrow’s identity leads to the second basis for my theory: her haste to get teenage William out of town, to a boarding school. Felicity surely has seen Back to the Future, so she may have done this to ensure that the two Williams never cross paths, while also keeping the lad out of the baddies’ crosshairs.

The only aspect of my two cents that I haven’t hammered down yet — nor am I in a rush to: Is there a specific reason why Felicity hasn’t told imprisoned Oliver…?

Edited November 4, 2018 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

I don't buy it, lol. They didn't show Argus swooping in because they wanted to draw out the reveal. And If Argus didn't have to run off Diaz, wouldn't Diggle have known about it?  Wouldn't they have said that Felicity chased him off, not that she was saved by Argus?  

Also, the time travel thing was shot down by Beth and per the rules of time travel on the other shows, crossing paths with your future self isn't a problem.  And Felicity was upset about the supposed new Green Arrow running around not in a worried way but like she resented someone wearing the hood that wasn't her husband, not the emotional response I would expect if she was to actually be a fan of the new guy.  

[Guest]

Is Matt Mitovich okay? ?

[way2interested]

13 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I don't buy it, lol.

Shhh, Matt's new and averse to traversing and breaking down fan theories for Arrow coming high off his earlier lucky guess (this isn't snark, I actually really like him). I'll at least admit that the show definitely wants you to think it's someone connected to Roy (either Roy himself or future William trained by Roy, etc.)

[SmallScreenDiva]

37 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Shhh, Matt's new and averse to traversing and breaking down fan theories for Arrow coming high off his earlier lucky guess (this isn't snark, I actually really like him). I'll at least admit that the show definitely wants you to think it's someone connected to Roy (either Roy himself or future William trained by Roy, etc.)

What was his lucky guess?

[way2interested]

6 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

What was his lucky guess?

He guessed before the 701 screening that Roy's plot is a flashforward plot (his was that it's a flashforward to like a year or so at most and about Roy being questioned by police about the death of Oliver Queen)

Edited November 4, 2018 by way2interested

[BkWurm1]

I didn't specifically put Roy in the Flashforward but didn't most of us make our first guess about what the brand new way of storytelling was going to be regular flashforwards?  Lol.  

[statsgirl]

Why has that article been closed to comments? That usually happens when a fight breaks out but I didn't see one. Did Beth ask for it to be closed ?)

(I commented yesterday but it's not there now.)

Edited November 5, 2018 by statsgirl

[kes0704]

5 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Why has that article been closed to comments? That usually happens when a fight breaks out but I didn't see one. Did Beth ask for it to be closed ?)

(I commented yesterday but it's not there now.)

Matt was blocking people on Twitter that replied to him with their own theories that he must’ve of thought were spoilers. Maybe the same thing was happening in the comments so they were turned off? 

[statsgirl]

That sounds plausible. But if he doesn't want any spoilers (and it is a spoiler site where they post who has been hired as well as actual spoilers), why even open up the topic? Or if he didn't want spoilers, why not have someone else monitor the comments?

Beth has said multiple times that Arrow is going to remain grounded in reality. How does he think that William time traveling fits into that?

shakes head  Weird.

Edited November 5, 2018 by statsgirl

[olicityfan25]

I've also heard he will just block you even if you are just asking him a question. So maybe he's just one of those that trigger blocks lol

[BkWurm1]

In the past, he has gotten mad if people argue with him—or her perceives it as such. Were people poking holes in his theory?

Edited November 5, 2018 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

People were disagreeing and suggesting alternative explanations. But it's just speculating.

Quote

As a rule, I aim to outright avoid — and certainly don’t get caught up in — fan speculation about the shows on my “beat” /that I cover. Alas, I stumbled across a particular Arrow Season 7 theory, and it did get my wheels churning….

The funny thing about what I do here at TVLine is that because part of my job is to interview producers and actors in the name of properly previewing episodes/shows, I need to choose my battles if I am to experience any surprises as a viewer. That’s why I don’t go out of my way to seek out theories; I mean, I literally have no idea how to “do” Reddit. None.

But shortly after Arrow‘s season premiere aired, and we glimpsed the new bow-toting vigilante that has Dinah, Rene et al puzzled, I accidentally saw a commenter relay a theory that has since only gained momentum. And it admittedly got my own bean thinking. So if you, like me, are averse to speculation that might prove to be an actual spoiler down the road, the time to hit the Back button is now.

I think that @kes0704  is right that it got too close to spoiling and he didn't want to know. The bolding is his. But then why keep reading the comments if he didn't want to know? Give the page to an intern to read and moderate if you don't want to be spoiled.

[tv echo]

I hope TPTB remember that even Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy ended with

Spoiler

Bruce/Batman alive and happy.

Edited December 20, 2018 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Let me preface this by saying I don't think Black Star will be revealed as a Lau2vier kid. Also, I don't even think my suggestion below is likely either.

However, they don't have to be in love or even like to make a Lau2iver baby. There's actually a comic storyline they could use, just swap out BS for Shado and have BS rape Oliver (while he's high on pain medication).

Of course if they did have BS rape Oliver i would LMAO and, since a woman is now in charge it's unlikely to get retconned like the Shado storyline did in the comics.

 

I can't see why BS would want to have Oliver's kid.  I can imagine she'd be evil enough to do it if she wanted it but why would she want it, lol?  

Along that same line of thought, what benefit would the show get from a BS kid that they couldn't get from an Olicity kid?  I could maybe see it being BS and unknown father's kid but not belonging to Oliver.  There's just no good reason to go there

Edited December 28, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I can't see why BS would want to have Oliver's kid.  I can imagine she'd be evil enough to do it if she wanted it but why would she want it, lol?  

Along that same line of thought, what benefit would the show get from a BS kid that they couldn't get from an Olicity kid?  I could maybe see it being BS and unknown father's kid but not belonging to Oliver.  There's just no good reason to go there

As I said I don't think it's even remotely likely. I was just pointing out that IF (Big IF) they wanted to make Black Star Lau2iver's kid (which again, I don't think they do) then they didn't have to write a change of love story from Olicity to Lau2iver within the next year to make it likely there were other options.

As to why would BS hypothetically want to have Oliver's kid? Because, she's crazy and evil, you really don't need anything else but, again I don't think any of it is likely to happen. Merely that it didn't require a love story or even change in LI in order to get to Black Star.

[way2interested]

All that messiness is one of the reasons why I just stick with it being Olicity's kid XD.

[Morrigan2575]

39 minutes ago, way2interested said:

All that messiness is one of the reasons why I just stick with it being Olicity's kid XD.

Same. They're setting up Team Arrow jr (William, Zoe) and I'm sure Black Star will join them and the most likely to me is that she's Olicity daughter. As to why they didn't recognize each other? They want to be a shocking/surprise reveal. 

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

As I said I don't think it's even remotely likely. I was just pointing out that IF (Big IF) they wanted to make Black Star Lau2iver's kid (which again, I don't think they do) then they didn't have to write a change of love story from Olicity to Lau2iver within the next year to make it likely there were other options.

 

Oh sure, I do understand, i was just trying to play it out but really couldn't come up with any good reason for it.  

Of course I also don't think they have any good reason for hiding Maya's origins either.  They are making the FF's so messy and in the process making all the characters look bad.  

[insomniadreams88]

I just hope that whoever Black Star turns out to be that we can't go back and go, "Well, because of X, Y, Z, etc., that doesn't make sense at all."

Really, I just hope that in their attempt to keep what's going on in the FFs a mystery that that's not the case for everything about them.  

[way2interested]

27 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Of course I also don't think they have any good reason for hiding Maya's origins either.

The reason is *the twist,* which although annoying is essentially the same thing they did with Chase for s5 (who in his first episode also had a cover story on his connection to a main character that was later revealed to be something deeper) although my question would be why they didn't even reveal her name is Maya in the show even though they already revealed it in press 

18 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Really, I just hope that in their attempt to keep what's going on in the FFs a mystery that that's not the case for everything about them.  

To be fair, that's been the case for the flashbacks and even for plots in present day (even most recently in s6 with Diaz being secretly the big bad even though he was staying in a city about to be blown up), the FFs wouldn't be unique for potentially having that fault.

Edited December 28, 2018 by way2interested

[Morrigan2575]

42 minutes ago, way2interested said:

although my question would be why they didn't even reveal her name is Maya in the show even though they already revealed it in press 

My guess, is that we're going to get a baby/pregnancy reveal first and Olicity talk about baby names one of them suggestions Maya. Then in a Flash Forward we get a Black Star name reveal of Maya...dun dun dun.

[way2interested]

17 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

My guess, is that we're going to get a baby/pregnancy reveal first and Olicity talk about baby names one of them suggestions Maya. Then in a Flash Forward we get a Black Star name reveal of Maya...dun dun dun.

My guess was just that Beth shot down revealing it in 708 because then William and co. would have jumped the planned later-probably sweeps-surprise, but ha, I like that scenario.

Lol, plot twist,

Spoiler

713 is titled "Maya," and is an Olicity/FF centered episode with that scenario or it involves Olicity having the baby conversation, especially since it's written by Beth

Edited December 28, 2018 by way2interested

[Morrigan2575]

I didn't know that, makes sense

[way2interested]

10 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I didn't know that, makes sense

Oh, it's not a fact, I was just making a wild guess 😅

[Morrigan2575]

Oh, LOL

[Guest]

Is this the right thread to discuss theories about how/why no one knows about Mia? Or should that be in the spoiler thread? I need answers! Also I'm sleep deprived and need to keep awake, haha. Let me have it! 

[BkWurm1]

As long as the spec is minus spoilers, here should be right.  

[lemotomato]

I have lots of unrealistic hopes for season 8, but I’m just going to put two out into the universe that I think are pretty reasonable: 1) Oliver, Felicity, and Diggle get happily ever afters, and 2) Bamford only gets to direct one episode, and NOT the series finale. (I prefer Bamford not getting to direct at all, but that would be unrealistic)

[Mellowyellow]

oh noes @lemotomato you just reminded me that Bamford probably will direct the series finale.

I hope they give it to Gregory Smith. I have never griped over his episodes and he doesn't do weird stuff.

A Happily Ever After for Olicity is my one wish and if I'm feeling greedy just some more casual Olicity scenes of them interacting in S8. 

[lemotomato]

I kind of hope that since they have a head start in knowing their episode count, they could get the jump in booking good directors. My wishlist would include Wendey Stanzler, Glen Winter, Antonio Negret, and Gregory Smith. They can save Bamford for the crossover episode because I don’t give a crap about it.

[Chaser]

I hope that the Queens and Diggles get a happy ending. 

I hope that Olicity and OTA get a decent focus. 

I hope SDCC is awesome. 

[tv echo]

I have mixed feelings about the news that Arrow is ending with 10 episodes of S8...

On the one hand, I feel both fearful and sad because I'm afraid that they will kill off Oliver, which will devastate me because he's been through so much and sacrificed so much. Also, it's like the end of an era and I will miss OTA and Olicity (and also dissecting each episode on this forum).

On the other hand, for Arrow to last 8 seasons is an amazing achievement and it feels somehow okay to end the show after 8 seasons. I still remember some anti-Olicity critics (media, fans) claiming that Olicity had killed the show back in S3 or S4. Yet, here we are, finishing up S7. IMO, Arrow would not have lasted so long without Olicity.

Bottom line, I think I would be okay with it, but only if the series ends with Oliver, Felicity and Diggle all having their HEAs - that means, no Oliver dying, no Felicity dying, no Diggle dying, no break-ups, no turning evil, no estrangement from their children, etc. The show has to end with hope and happiness for OTA.

However, if Oliver is killed off next season (esp. if he sacrifices himself for effin' Barry and Kara!), I will be so angry that I will stop watching any Arrowverse shows or CW shows for that matter. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by tv echo

[Mellowyellow]

I'm going to miss you so much @tv echo

No matter how the show ends I'll always remember you as that super organised, lovely person who highlighted all the bits in reviews for me to read and could provide information in a jiffy.

😍😘😗😙😚🤗

[tv echo]

Thank you, @Mellowyellow! I'm going to miss a lot of you guys as well. 💐

Well, we still have another year to go - but I'm already wondering what I'm going to do fan forum-wise after Arrow ends. I'm not super enthused about any other TV ships or TV shows. 😕

Edited March 7, 2019 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

I misread the title as "Hopes And Fears: How Will I Survive After This Island?

On the one hand, I'm glad this show didn't go out badly like OUaT did their last season. But I'm really going to miss coming here and talking to all of you.

As others have said, my deal-breaker is if Oliver, Felicity and Diggle don't get their happy ending. I'm afraid that Roy and Thea didn't get theirs, and I don't care about anyone else.

@tv echo you have been and are amazing. Everything I wanted to know and sane conversation you provided.

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

Well, we still have another year to go - but I'm already wondering what I'm going to do fan forum-wise after Arrow ends. I'm not super enthused about any other TV ships or TV shows. 😕

Let us know what shows you're watching. I know it doesn't always work out but I'll try to follow.

[tv echo]

I wonder if TPTB will try to move Felicity over to The Flash due to her popularity. I hope not. That wouldn't make any sense. Felicity needs to run Smoak Tech in Star City (and hopefully live happily ever after with Oliver and their kids). Also, any such move would be a demotion because she could only ever be a smaller supporting role on The Flash.

Instead, if The CW or another network is smart, they'll give EBR her own show. I could see her starring in a dramedy about a single woman.

If EBR got her own show, I would watch it.

Edited March 8, 2019 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

I hope Arrow gets a Grimm style series finale, that show ended with a flash forward epilogue.

So my hope is, whatever happens in S8, it ends with the Flash Forward reversed. We don't even need to see older OTA just Will, Mia and JJ in the bunker doing Arrow related things and, have someone mention Mom/Dad/Uncle Digg need us to help out with some villain. 

[way2interested]

26 minutes ago, tv echo said:

I wonder if TPTB will try to move Felicity over to The Flash due to her popularity

I don't think so, especially since they are pretty light on small crossovers these days

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

So my hope is, whatever happens in S8, it ends with the Flash Forward reversed. We don't even need to see older OTA just Will, Mia and JJ in the bunker doing Arrow related things and, have someone mention Mom/Dad/Uncle Digg need us to help out with some villain

My friend had a bet/hope that it ends with a FF to 2045 with Team Arrow 2.0 protecting the city and then heading back to celebrate Oliver's 60th birthday (where it's reversed, they find out he's not dead, whatever) with family, friends, and cameos

[Chaser]

And hairstylists and skincare make a dramatic comeback!

I don’t anticipate seeing EBR in the Arrowverse after she wraps Arrow. I think they would welcome her but I don’t think see her having the interest.

One thing I do want is a Felicity appearance in Batwoman next season. 

[Morrigan2575]

34 minutes ago, way2interested said:

My friend had a bet/hope that it ends with a FF to 2045 with Team Arrow 2.0 protecting the city and then heading back to celebrate Oliver's 60th birthday (where it's reversed, they find out he's not dead, whatever) with family, friends, and cameos

Yes, something like that.  Showing that the awful FF of 2040 were reversed and it's a semi happy ending.  They're not retired living the good life and the world is safe forever more.   There's still crime, there's still a need for Vigilantes and a new generation steps up but, the city isn't a crap hole, the  OTA have their families and are still fighting the good fight.

I mean it really is the shittiest thing in the world, that I can think of, to end Arrow with Oliver never having been able to raise either of the kids he obviously loves so much. 

[BkWurm1]

On 3/7/2019 at 8:39 AM, tv echo said:

Thank you, @Mellowyellow! I'm going to miss a lot of you guys as well. 💐

Well, we still have another year to go - but I'm already wondering what I'm going to do fan forum-wise after Arrow ends. I'm not super enthused about any other TV ships or TV shows. 😕

i was pretty wrapped up in the Smallville fandom and never thought I'd get pulled into one in the same way ever again but shows have a way of sneaking up on you.  Don't feel you have to rush into anything.  My advice is take a break and see what happens.  Really, even with Arrow ending by the end of this year, I'm sure I'll still be popping in here for a good long while after.  

[tv echo]

The flashforwards have been so depressing in terms of Olicity's future. So I've been trying to think of other fictional OTP couples who have triumphed over long separations - here are three examples (they are all older than a year, but I'll use spoiler tags anyway)...

Spoiler

1. Outlander (tv/book series) - Jamie & Claire are separated for 20 years when he thinks he's going to die in the Battle of Culloden and sends pregnant Claire back through the stones to her own time, so Jamie does not get to see his child grow up. Jamie & Claire are eventually reunited. Jamie meets his daughter for the first time when she is an adult.

2. Pirates of the Caribbean (film series) - Will & Elizabeth are separated for almost 20 years when Will is forced to become the Flying Dutchman's captain, leaving behind a pregnant Elizabeth. Will eventually reunites with his family and meets his 19-year-old son Henry for the first time.

3. The Odyssey (classic literature) - Odysseus is separated from his wife Penelope and son Telemachus for 20 years, so he does not get to see his child grow up. But he is eventually reunited with his family.

Truly epic love stories all seem to involve suffering. However, I'm still hoping that Oliver & Felicity have been secretly keeping in touch over all those years when he's been presumed dead. I'm also really hoping that Oliver is actually alive when Arrow ends and everyone just thought he was dead. If he's actually dead, then I'll be really angry. And if Felicity is dead in the future, then I'll be even more angry. 

I just have to hope TPTB realize that it won't help dvd/blu-ray/streaming sales of Arrow or attracting viewers for their other Arrowverse shows if they give Arrow's main characters a sad ending. If anything, it will infuriate many loyal Arrow fans.

Edited March 13, 2019 by tv echo

[Genki]

The sad thing is that we already know Oliver has missed out on William’s formative years, it’s just uppsetting to think he could possibly miss out on Mia’s whole childhood as well. That is why I don’t like the idea of a 20 year seperation.

I’m hoping for a shorter than expected separation or a reset like Fringe did.

Hopefully everyone learnt something for the HIMYM debacle, I think the EPS even lost a pilot order because of it.

[way2interested]

With this observation,

I know I am the only person on planet earth who actually likes the FF, but still I think it would be cool if 810 ended with in the FF Oliver returning and him and Mia taking down a large group of enemies together and then lead to Oliver reuniting with Felicity (with EBR's appearance back) Odysseus and Penelope style. Hilarious extra points if they have someone else play a new mysterious older ally for the FF crew to keep giving SA that time off to reveal in the end it was Oliver all along.