Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[Sunshine]

I think he’s here so Laurel can do a “but my poor dead Daddy” storyline. The reverse has been such a hit over the years.

[Primal Slayer]

I hope they actually explore the Laurel impersonating Laurel aspect. See how E2Laurel reacts to the reaction she gets from the citizens of Star City, those who love her for saving their lives, those that may be against her for being Black Canary and just interacting with some people from Laurels past. Not to mention getting some E2 flashbacks. Would love for either E2 Robert to come over or have the gang go to E2. 

[tennisgurl]

The only thing that could make Diaz work as a villain is to have him killed in the first episode of the next season by the new Big Bad to establish what a threat they are. he himself can jump in the nearest lake. Dude isnt scary, or fun, or complex, or anything else that makes a good villain. Diaz is just some random dickhead with blackmail material, guns, and the ability to hold a petty grudge. Nothing very menacing or compelling about that.

[BunsenBurner]

I hope that Felicity is the one who gets Oliver out of prison. Hopefully with a pardon from the POTUS. 

It would be great if FS could start wearing her Ghost Fox Goddess outfit and start being a vigilante. 

The show managed to destroy everything that had to do with the lives of OTA and the NTA. Will they be moving to a new city next season? 

[jay741982]

9 hours ago, BunsenBurner said:

I hope that Felicity is the one who gets Oliver out of prison. Hopefully with a pardon from the POTUS. 

It would be great if FS could start wearing her Ghost Fox Goddess outfit and start being a vigilante. 

The show managed to destroy everything that had to do with the lives of OTA and the NTA. Will they be moving to a new city next season? 

I'd love to see Felicity wearing her Ghost Fox Goddess Outfit next season. MG was the one who said she wouldn't have a costume on his watch Correct? C'mon Beth come through lol

[Mellowyellow]

So I was rewatching the Madam Secretary finale and it struck me that the main character on there doesn't often lose or get shoved around to further the plot of other no names which got me wondering if this is because Tea Leoni is a producer and has a lot of say in what her character gets up to. If SA were to become a producer wouldn't he have more influence over Oliver's storylines? He seems to have thought S6 was sh@t and wasn't too happy with it.

I remember it being reported that Juliana M's character on The Good Wife won a ridiculous amount of cases because JM was a producer and didn't like to see her character lose. Does SA not have enough clout to get a producer's credit? As the star of the show how come he doesn't have much power to protect his character? Or does CW operate differently and the actors are lower on the food chain on CW?

[BkWurm1]

A producer's credit is often something stars on the CW get as the show goes on.  They can't raise their salary too high but they can offer other perks.  I'd be surprised if he didn't negotiate the title if when he signs a new contract

[way2interested]

He/They might be holding out for that specifically for s8, especially since now SA's been touting that "well, looks like I'll be finished soon" line.

[Mary0360]

The thing is even if he is after a producers credit, how many seasons does the show have left in it to really make the title worthwhile? I don't think it's going to be supernatural. It's got maybe 2-3 seasons tops and even that I feel is being a little generous. Unless the new team of writers can bring new life and reenergise the show. 

[way2interested]

10 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

I don't think it's going to be supernatural.

I don't think so either, but I think that the big crossovers are a big thing for them, so they'll try to squeeze at least another season or 2 just to get those crossover numbers. Plus, going into s8 will also have the other shows basically reaching their syndication numbers (LoT getting perhaps one more additional short season), so then they can all start wrapping up rather than Arrow ending rather abruptly before the others, especially since

Spoiler

If Batwoman becomes a series and Black Lightning continues, those two can continue on together in separate universes while Supergirl and LoT can get wrapped up circa s5, leaving Flash, Black Lightning, and Batwoman, which was the initial number of series that CW originally planned to go with anyway.

 At this point I'm going with s7 and then a shortened s8 (to make up for the new contracts, SA's probable producer title, etc.) in time for one more crossover and to wrap everything up. 

[statsgirl]

I wish the show would stop duplicating characters because it's boring.  And it detracts from the originals. I'd really like to see a slimming down of the cast as soon as Oliver gets out of prison but I'm afraid they won't do it.

When Curtis came on, suddenly Felicity couldn't write algorithms and needed help doing what she usied to do with no problem.  Rory had to help her wtih Judaism (but I didn't mind so very much because I liked him). The worst was when Curtis mansplained her in the s5 crossover. Now she can't even have her own company without the Curtis hobble.

Crazy Puppy is a low rent version of Oliver, or maybe it's just RG pushing it too much.

If they redeem Black Siren, how exactly is she going to be different than Dinah?  They're both meta screamers and fighters.

The show has to many masks and too much of their skill set is redundant. Thea didn't become Speedy until Roy left.  That's the way to do it.

Edited May 26, 2018 by statsgirl

[insomniadreams88]

I hope that Rory comes back for even just one episode in season 7. Give me back the newbie I liked! 

[Proteus]

2 hours ago, way2interested said:

I don't think so either, but I think that the big crossovers are a big thing for them, so they'll try to squeeze at least another season or 2 just to get those crossover numbers. Plus, going into s8 will also have the other shows basically reaching their syndication numbers (LoT getting perhaps one more additional short season), so then they can all start wrapping up rather than Arrow ending rather abruptly before the others, especially since

  Reveal hidden contents

If Batwoman becomes a series and Black Lightning continues, those two can continue on together in separate universes while Supergirl and LoT can get wrapped up circa s5, leaving Flash, Black Lightning, and Batwoman, which was the initial number of series that CW originally planned to go with anyway.

 At this point I'm going with s7 and then a shortened s8 (to make up for the new contracts, SA's probable producer title, etc.) in time for one more crossover and to wrap everything up. 

I see no reason why LOT & Supergirl will be wrapped up that soon. I don't think CW has any plans on ending them.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Proteus

[way2interested]

17 minutes ago, Proteus said:

I see no reason why LOT & Supergirl will be wrapped up that soon. I don't think CW has any plans on ending them.

I don't think they have to, in fact all of the shows could continue to Supernatural levels if they want to. I just think that if they start to see diminishing marginal returns on the Arrowverse it might be better to end them near each other rather than let them all drag out, especially if Supergirl and LoT cost more than Arrow and yet see similar results in ratings/DVD sales. 

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I hope that Rory comes back for even just one episode in season 7. Give me back the newbie I liked! 

One of the reasons I think I liked Rory was because he was his own character.  Powers and backstory that no one was duplicating.  An amiable, comedic personality but distinct.  He was was Jewish like Felicity but was spiritual on a level she hadn't been shown so it didn't step on her character, but allowed her to expand on an aspect of herself.  He also got his own sets and distinct interests, his art, outside of the team.  He was the character with the most unrealistic of powers but was somehow the more grounded and relatable of them all.    So naturally, he was the one that had to go.  

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, jay741982 said:

It would be awesome if they brought Lucy on and wrote well and used her right. This is the show that passed on Micheal Emerson being the big bad this past season 

I'm not sure if the show ever planned on Cayden James being season long or not.  MG made comments in one of his interviews about planning the twist of DDDiaz taking over as the bad guy but it's hard to tell or not if that was a contingency plan they threw together once they realized they couldn't entice ME to commit to a whole season. (And I'm guessing Arrow budgets for guest stars remain limited) But I'm starting to lean toward they did originally plan to use him all year long and then something changed or maybe even a few things.   

There was that rather long period where they wouldn't even admit he was Cayden James that still doesn't make sense so maybe they were trying to figure out what to do with him once they realized he wasn't sticking around that whole time.  Cayden James had so much potential to explore I can easily imagine it taking the whole year and it does feel like his big plan was never actually uncovered.  The one that he talked about at the end of episode four.  But it's like that was dropped after that.  Just like the implication that Felicity was going to take the blame for Cayden's deeds.  So maybe that's how far they got writing the scripts before realizing they had to do something else.    

Then there's the fact that The Flash was making their big bad the Thinker, one that at least at first was all about planning and orchestrating long-term schemes.  In the end, they made him a physical challenge as well and I think there were enough differences between the scale and weird science behind The Thinker's plan that both could have co-existed but I wonder if there could have been push back at their general similarities.  Cayden seemed to be building toward a really complicated BIG world-changing plan as well in episode 4 only to find out it was a just a mere revenge plot about his son in episode 7 (5 and 6 being Slade's filler episodes). 

Episode 7 is also when we have Diaz show up as Diggle's drug connection.  That's the episode that feels like the handoff happened.  That's when they started writing away from the more interesting choices.  But even with bringing in DDDIaz, they seemed to still stick him with qualities that don't fit him.  Diaz makes sense as this unhinged thug or even a methodical thug but still a thug, it never made sense for him to frame Oliver for Jame's son, let alone in that sloppy circuitous route to take over the city.  Followed by behind the scenes actually taking control of all the city officials as well.  And for what?  To get a seat at a table that Diaz then promptly disdains? 

But I could imagine that maybe Cayden James had been building toward a huge plan that would take complete control of the city on multiple levels.  We just don't know why and maybe Diaz was always meant to swoop in at the end and disrupt things, that I can believe, maybe even always the plan to kill Cayden James, but the timing of everything is so messy and meaningless.  There had to be a bigger plan at one point. 

I guess what I'm saying is if they scrapped some big plan to be carried out by Cayden James in favor of a DDDiaz lite version of it (aka minus the evol plans or it really making any sense how he did any of it) because they could only get ME for half the year, they would have been better off not going ahead with ME.    

[way2interested]

11 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I guess what I'm saying is if they scrapped some big plan to be carried out by Cayden James in favor of a DDDiaz lite version of it (aka minus the evol plans or it really making any sense how he did any of it) because they could only get ME for half the year, they would have been better off not going ahead with ME. 

It's a messy situation, though, I'll give them that. Drop an experienced actor and get a more unknown who might not deliver or stick with a dream cast who can elevate your material and rearrange some plans to get him to stay a while? In the end it looks like they went with more of the controllable (to the extent that all they would have to worry about is the stuff they wrote rather than if the actor was good, regardless of how it was actually executed or not) safe bet of securing ME even for a little while rather than say switching to a more unknown guy who might not deliver. Comparing this decision to the reactions from the villains of s3 (relative unknown, complaints were mostly on performance/character) and s4 (more experienced, complaints were mostly on the plot), and I can kind of see their reasoning, even if they couldn't execute it well. Then again, I could also see it as they always wanted to switch villains midway but just still wanted to have ME around even for a bit just for the fun of it.

That all being said I wonder how they'll approach the villain situation in s7. Even if Diaz is still around I don't imagine him being around going into 7b to be the actual big bad, so I wonder if they'll then lean onto the Longbow Hunters (and if them, then would they have a different leader? Who plays them?) or introduce someone else entirely or 

Spoiler

if one of those new characters ends up being the villain.

[BunsenBurner]

Could we maybe just get Josh Segarra and have him be the villain each season?  He could just keep changing the villain's name. He could have multiple personality disorder or lots of identical brothers? At least we would know he was good.

[thegirlsleuth]

1 minute ago, BunsenBurner said:

Could we maybe just get Josh Segarra and have him be the villain each season?  He could just keep changing the villain's name. He could have multiple personality disorder or lots of identical brothers? At least we would know he was good.

It works for Tom Cavanagh.  Why not Josh?

[KenyaJ]

8 minutes ago, BunsenBurner said:

Could we maybe just get Josh Segarra and have him be the villain each season?  He could just keep changing the villain's name. He could have multiple personality disorder or lots of identical brothers? At least we would know he was good.

I'm good with this.

[BkWurm1]

Yeah if Oliver is in prison when the season starts and they leave him there for a good bit of time, it does sound like they'd have Diaz dealt with perhaps before Oliver even gets home.  

[tennisgurl]

On 5/26/2018 at 12:54 AM, BkWurm1 said:

He was the character with the most unrealistic of powers but was somehow the more grounded and relatable of them all.    So naturally, he was the one that had to go.  

I truly have no idea why they decided to write Rory, of all people, off. Unless the actor wanted to leave, it accomplished nothing, and was a real waste of a good character. As stated, he had a likable, unique personality, and his powers and backstory were really interesting. I loved the contrast especially between his creepy costume, and his kind, dorky, spiritual personality. And I liked how his religion was a part of him, and informed his world view and cultural background, and didnt define him as a character. Its a bit like how Zaris faith was portrayed later on LoT. The characters heritage and faith isnt ignored or only brought up every once in awhile for the sake of continuity or diversity, but its not ALL they are, and it doesn't turn into stereotypes. He was also the only newbie that people actually seemed to like, so, of course, he had to go. I dont mean to get all conspiracy on you all, but it almost felt like the writers preferred Curtis and Rene, and was annoyed that the audience liked Rory better, and wrote him off to get the audience to have to like their favorites as default.

I know it probably wont happen, but I desperately hope that they either get rid of the Newbies, or at least spend less time on them, and bring back Rory, or have Thea, Nyssa, and Roy come back from time to time for group missions. Or if they insist on a bigger team, just bring in some better Newbies, and start all over again. Write NTA off as a bad idea, and start again with some actually likable, unique characters. We know they can do it, so do it!

[way2interested]

4 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I dont mean to get all conspiracy on you all, but it almost felt like the writers preferred Curtis and Rene, and was annoyed that the audience liked Rory better, and wrote him off to get the audience to have to like their favorites as default.

The only conspiracy I can figure is that Rory was always supposed to be temporary as a jumping board for Felicity (heck, the reason to get rid of him was probably to get Felicity's Helix arc to start going since the only person in the story who would have stopped her because he knew exactly what was going on was Rory) and Rene is the one always intended to be permanent (him and Dinah, mandated later). I don't think they got annoyed that people liked him, just surprised since they put more effort into Rene (whether it worked or not, they spent more time with him and tried to tie him to both Diggle and Oliver) and Rory's development got pretty settled almost immediately after he was introduced (502 already was redeemed from VOTW, 504 was already quickly made into Felicity's confidant).

Depending on what new characters may or may not end up sticking around, I also wonder what the approach of the newbies is going to be come s7 (will they try to make them more supportive to get rid of bad blood, will they try to make them more involved to push them again, will they try to make them more supporting characters to try to put distance from it, etc,), especially with Beth now taking over, and I wonder what her approach to this might be, since clearly the anger towards the newbies was unprecedented yet noticeable enough for CW to get MG to comment on it.

[statsgirl]

I agree that Rory was always intended to be temporary, a way to tie Oliver to Havenrock and a place holder till they got their new Black Canary.  There wasn't time between his arrival and writing his departure to have changed course like that.

WM and MG seemed to really be in love with Rene and Curtis was popular the previous season.  The audience's love for Rory  and the dislike for the other n00bs really seemed to surprise them.

I wonder how committed Beth is to Rene, Curtis and Dinah, both in terms of her own personal preferences and also in terms of contracts and how much DC and the network want them on the show.

[Guest]

Aw, I liked Rory. He was just so quietly charming and likeable. He wasn't annoying or in your face and he didn't glare or hiss every other line, unlike the others. He was played by a good actor too, so it was a shame to lose him. RG is pretty good acting wise even though I don't like Rene but JH is so weak (and pretty bad on some days) and EK can't do drama at all so we really were left with the meh.

I'd love to hope they bring him back in some way, even for a one off, but it does conflict with my "metas/powers shouldn't be on Arrow" resolve. 

[BkWurm1]

I can't even talk about Rene, he just annoys me too much but I honestly think they could salvage Curtis if they just wrote and used him better.  Get back to not stepping on Felicity's skills.  Lean more into him using gadgets than his fighting skill.  It's nothing that big of a reach. I was liking him in the back half of season five when they had Rene and Curtis bicker back and forth and Dinah acting like the big sister kind of laughing at them.  But all this drama turned all of them into black holes of awful.  

I'm iffy if anything could change my mind about Rene who even without it not changing anything Hoss, he has no business being a vigilante when he's all his daughter has.  And Dinah has such inappropriate smolder, so not sure if that's an easy fix either, but Curtis is so close to being a tolerable and even likable guy.  So close.  

[way2interested]

15 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I was liking him in the back half of season five when they had Rene and Curtis bicker back and forth and Dinah acting like the big sister kind of laughing at them. 

520 was such a great episode, it made me even like them more with that shot of them outside the Diggle apartment.

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm iffy if anything could change my mind about Rene who even without it not changing anything Hoss, he has no business being a vigilante when he's all his daughter has.

Someone on the writing staff should have noticed this.  It takes away any support I have for Rene or sympathy for his trials and tribulations.

A sort-of fix would be to have her live with her grandparents or an aunt or uncle.  At least then she would be safe and in a secure environment. But for Rene to first want to leave his traumatized and motherless daughter in the system in a foster home (which is rarely permanent) and then get her back only to leave her with overnight babysitters so he can keep fighting, and then with Curtis when he's injured and hospitalized for weeks ... there's just no excuse.

[KenyaJ]

A few days ago someone tweeted a clip of some Emily badassery during one of her workouts and it made me wonder if we might get to see some of that on the show. To be clear, I'm not asking to see her out in the field taking down bad guys alongside the team. I love her importance to the team as is, and that she doesn't need to fight to be a hero. But if she's in protective custody because a psychopath and his minions might try to come for her and her stepson, it makes total sense that she would take steps to make sure she could protect herself and William if it came to that. She got served a shit sandwich in the finale, but I'd love to see her dealing with that proactively and the training could go along with that. So it feels like an opportune time to give Felicity at least 5-10% of Emily's ass-kicking abilities. Plus, I'd love to see Oliver and Diggle's reactions to finding out that she hasn't been sitting at home knitting while Oliver's been in prison.

[way2interested]

Tbh, I'd rather just something like her cameo in that LoT episode where she got to have full costume and mask and stuff. Like another alt-Felicity or some disguise one-off.

[BkWurm1]

On 6/8/2018 at 2:52 PM, KenyaJ said:

A few days ago someone tweeted a clip of some Emily badassery during one of her workouts and it made me wonder if we might get to see some of that on the show. To be clear, I'm not asking to see her out in the field taking down bad guys alongside the team. I love her importance to the team as is, and that she doesn't need to fight to be a hero. But if she's in protective custody because a psychopath and his minions might try to come for her and her stepson, it makes total sense that she would take steps to make sure she could protect herself and William if it came to that. She got served a shit sandwich in the finale, but I'd love to see her dealing with that proactively and the training could go along with that. So it feels like an opportune time to give Felicity at least 5-10% of Emily's ass-kicking abilities. Plus, I'd love to see Oliver and Diggle's reactions to finding out that she hasn't been sitting at home knitting while Oliver's been in prison.

I think that Felicity has reached a stage where she should be at least above average when it comes to self-defense moves.  She at this point should have been getting training on and off for nearly six years because she's been in a job that should REQUIRE her to be well versed in basic self-defense and she's surrounded by those that are the best of the best.  It no longer feels logical that she wouldn't lean more into ass-kicking when the time is appropriate.  Felicity has only gotten more brave and bold, that should be reflected in a physical way as well as her continued mental capabilities.  

I don't ever want her to move as even a part-time regular in the field, what she can do behind a keyboard is far more valuable but we have a scenario where it only makes sense for Felicity to be at peak readiness for any danger on all levels.  

On 6/8/2018 at 3:34 PM, way2interested said:

Tbh, I'd rather just something like her cameo in that LoT episode where she got to have full costume and mask and stuff. Like another alt-Felicity or some disguise one-off.

Why not all of the above?  :D  I'd like my cake and eat it too.  GIve me all the good stuff.

[way2interested]

4 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Why not all of the above?  :D 

Lol, DR did say it sounds like Beth wants to do everything they can.

[KenyaJ]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think that Felicity has reached a stage where she should be at least above average when it comes to self-defense moves.  She at this point should have been getting training on and off for nearly six years because she's been in a job that should REQUIRE her to be well versed in basic self-defense and she's surrounded by those that are the best of the best.  It no longer feels logical that she wouldn't lean more into ass-kicking when the time is appropriate.  Felicity has only gotten more brave and bold, that should be reflected in a physical way as well as her continued mental capabilities.  

Yeah, I agree with all of that. I know it's always been Emily's headcannon that Oliver and Diggle would make sure she had basic self-defense skills. But since we haven't seen any indication of it since her training scenes with Diggle in S1 and Sara in S2, I can imagine the howls from Felicity haters if she was shown to be proficient at defending herself without further explanation. (Look at how mad they were about her being able to run fast in 618, LOL.) So I just think the upcoming storyline could be a good time to show that yes, she can kick ass when she needs to.

[SmallScreenDiva]

19 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

Yeah, I agree with all of that. I know it's always been Emily's headcannon that Oliver and Diggle would make sure she had basic self-defense skills. But since we haven't seen any indication of it since her training scenes with Diggle in S1 and Sara in S2, I can imagine the howls from Felicity haters if she was shown to be proficient at defending herself without further explanation. (Look at how mad they were about her being able to run fast in 618, LOL.) So I just think the upcoming storyline could be a good time to show that yes, she can kick ass when she needs to.

If Arrow can try to sell that Laurel Lance with some boxing sessions at the Y with Wild Cat and a couple of weeks with Nyssa could be proficient enough in the field to battle with members of the League of Assassins, then I can most definitely buy Felicity Smoak learning enough moves — with a few extra — to defend herself quite well in 5 months. I'd love for Arrow to show this and I hope this is something Emily has brought to Beth because I think she'd at least hear her out. But I have a feeling the show wants to keep this type of action skills limited to the mask wearers and not the pretty blonde brainiac. 

[Mellowyellow]

So I'm watching this drama and because I can't deal with suspense (I have to wait for subs) I snuck online to read what people who don't need subs are saying.

Anyways, Happily Ever After BUT they killed a beloved side character none of us thought would die. Like seriously this person was there from the beginning and although they didn't have their own plot they were very much linked to the heroine so their death really slapped everyone on the face despite the HEA. People are still happy with the HEA but the writers did get their shock value and drama from killing this person off. Not someone you'd expect to die!

Which led me to think, when Arrow ends, who can they kill if they want to kill someone without robbing Oliver of a HEA?

In my personal opinion killing Felicity or William means there is no HEA. 

Diggle to the other arm of Olicity so killing him would rob me off a HEA as well.

Killing the Noobs would make me cackle and celebrate so that's pointless! They have no likeable characters to kill!!!!! 

For those of you who want a HEA for Oliver and Co, who can they kill that will give you drama/shock but still let you enjoy the ending?

Lol you can't say N00bs cuz we all want them dead so that's not a legit death! 

[statsgirl]

Roy?  Thea if she ever comes back?

I don't want Diggle to die because of Lyla and Sara JJ

[JamieLynn832002]

Roy's the only one I can think of too. I feel like they've already killed off most of the their death is super-sad but not HEA erasing characters.

[BkWurm1]

They could make us THINK that Oliver or someone essential to the HEA dies only for it to turn out to be a ruse.  I'd take that.  Though if BS and the NTA wanted to go out in a blaze of glory, be my guest, lol.  

[Mellowyellow]

13 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

They could make us THINK that Oliver or someone essential to the HEA dies only for it to turn out to be a ruse.  I'd take that.  Though if BS and the NTA wanted to go out in a blaze of glory, be my guest, lol.  

Haha I was going to say since they have a history if misjudging audience reactions wouldn't it be brilliant if they killed one or more of the N00bs, in a horrifically gory fashion, thinking it was the SADDEST DEATHS EVER!!!!!

Oh how wonderful would that be!  

[tennisgurl]

"Hah, everyone will be so sad and horrified when we have NTA eaten by radioactive lions! The fans will be so...why are people dancing in the street?"

[statsgirl]

I was reading the Death in Paradise forum and there was a (justified) complaint that the basic characters on the show never change even when actors leave the show.  Quirky English detective replaced by a quirky English detective and then a quirky Irish detective.  Youngish female second-in-command replaced by a youngish female second-in-command.  Junior male officer replaced by a junior male officer.

I've read lots of complaints about the interchangeable Black Canaries on Arrow.  And Curtis isn't really that different from a gay combination of Felicity and Ray.

My question is: if you were going to replace Rene, Curtis and/or 'X' on the show with a different character, what would that character be like?  What do you think the show needs?  Should the elders of Moira/Walter/Quentin need to be replaced or are Diggle and Oliver going to take on those roles now?

[way2interested]

47 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

My question is: if you were going to replace Rene, Curtis and/or 'X' on the show with a different character, what would that character be like?  What do you think the show needs?  Should the elders of Moira/Walter/Quentin need to be replaced or are Diggle and Oliver going to take on those roles now?

You can't really replace the elders in the middle since those have higher significance than any random new character one could bring into the show. At that point, you either drop the elder characters entirely (which could work, symbolically and all that) or make the main characters their own elders. If the characters are their own elders, then I'd argue that a character like Rene actually would be needed and that a Team B would be a nice parallel to OTA if they chose to portray it that way (a headstrong fighter, a comparatively innocent and optimistic tech person, a unfulfilled veteran, gee all of that sounds FAMILIAR). A determined newbie who wants to go out and be a hero because of Team Arrow but doesn't understand the horrors, determination, tenacity, etc. it takes and needing the team/Oliver to pass on what they've learned throughout the years leading them to reflect on their experiences is actually a fun idea. It would be kind of like Roy but with less of an immediate connection since he/she wouldn't be dating Oliver's sister. It's all chalked up to the awkwardness of the execution.

However, if we are talking completely different type of character, I'd actually take a character like Billy (a cop or I'd actually pitch a Private Investigator) and flesh them out, someone who's completely straight-laced with no demons to balance out literally everyone who's been through a lot. It has the potential to be a boring character, but I think it would be a change of pace to have someone who wasn't evil/antagonistic/has a dark past/has drama/whatever to be support.

Although, ultimately I'm all for cutting characters rather than adding them, which I get isn't the gist of the question XD 

[Guest]

The trouble is the show doesn't need to replace characters, it needs to get rid of some of them completely. OR just lessen their roles a bit. 

[thegirlsleuth]

I know they botched Ray Palmer on Arrow--I have a season 3 rewrite in my head that involves integrating him into the team much earlier-- but I really think having sunny "let's be heroes!" character would be a nice balance.  Not that Arrow would be cheery, necessarily, but I think a character like that could create some interesting dynamics, with the character grappling with the dark things the team has to do and Oliver getting in touch with heroism.  I liked Rory because his mellow spirituality was a nice balance to all the intensity--bring him back!

[statsgirl]

38 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

but I really think having sunny "let's be heroes!" character would be a nice balance.

I started liking Ray only when they put him into scenes with Oliver.

54 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

 I liked Rory because his mellow spirituality was a nice balance to all the intensity--bring him back!

Rory was the only new character I wanted kept, so naturally he left first.

It sounds like Arrow does do a good job of writing new characters.  It just does a lousy job of picking which ones it keeps.

2 hours ago, way2interested said:

However, if we are talking completely different type of character, I'd actually take a character like Billy (a cop or I'd actually pitch a Private Investigator) and flesh them out, someone who's completely straight-laced with no demons to balance out literally everyone who's been through a lot. It has the potential to be a boring character, but I think it would be a change of pace to have someone who wasn't evil/antagonistic/has a dark past/has drama/whatever to be support.

I'd really like just one good, uncomplicated character.  The idea feels like such a relief.

[KenyaJ]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I started liking Ray only when they put him into scenes with Oliver.

Same. Their dynamic in 319 was perfect. Season 3 would have been so much better if Ray had existed in Oliver's story as something other than a romantic rival. And I agree that a sunny "let's be heroes!" character would be a good addition to the show. I think the show thinks Curtis is that kind of character, but he's not.

[Mellowyellow]

3 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

Same. Their dynamic in 319 was perfect. Season 3 would have been so much better if Ray had existed in Oliver's story as something other than a romantic rival. And I agree that a sunny "let's be heroes!" character would be a good addition to the show. I think the show thinks Curtis is that kind of character, but he's not.

SO SO TRUE!!!!

Curtis is the smuggest, whiniest, pettiest, most passive aggressive piece of shit there is! I do wonder if it's the acting or of they intentionally wrote him like that! He's so vastly different to Felicity and Ray it's super weird how they got him so wrong.

[kes0704]

Curtis swings between extremes of overly enthusiastic and overly whiny, there doesn’t seem to be a middle ground and both extremes are annoying.  I’d also had enough Donna by the end of S4.  She was way too much and I can’t say that I mind that her appearances were cut back.

It’s kind of interesting how they get some characters so right and some go off the rails. It seems to happen frequently with the characters that they really want the audience to like (e.g. Ray, Curtis, Rene, Dinah). They end up pushing them too hard which has the effect of making them unlikeable because if feels like they’re everywhere (or at least it does for me).  

They didn’t try to push Rory forward because they knew he had a limited run, but that ended up making him extremely likeable and he was a great support character for Felicity. 

[BkWurm1]

8 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

Same. Their dynamic in 319 was perfect. Season 3 would have been so much better if Ray had existed in Oliver's story as something other than a romantic rival. And I agree that a sunny "let's be heroes!" character would be a good addition to the show. I think the show thinks Curtis is that kind of character, but he's not.

Yeah, Curtis is actually a super negative character about everything.  

[BkWurm1]

I think if the show HAD to add characters rather than downsize and just spend more time on the characters and stories I'm actually already interested in, I'd have them first determine what the character would add to the show in terms of position and contribution.  Like what unique skill do they possess?  What unique job do they hold or contacts do they have that opens up the world they inhabit?  Normally I'd go the other way around and start with personality but they seem to have such a hard time making their new characters feel unique I'd like for them to at least start with a good reason to bring them on the freaking show.   

At least that way the new characters wouldn't steal jobs and natural plot moments from the established characters.  It's far to easy too send Felicity on an errand and let Curtis fill in with no explanation or swap Diggle's gun for Rene or just randomly add the muscle Dinah brings, but a character like Lyla brings not only an individual personality but a wholly unique world and worldview.  Lyla would be a different character if she wasn't involved in Argus.  

I would have liked if the Curtis they brought on, if they insisted on duplicating a lot of skill sets, to give him on the surface a very different personality.  Maybe he could have been the grumpy, put-upon, doesn't want to work with people, and they annoy him person who gets pulled in even though he doesn't want to admit he cares.  That's such a cliche in a way but at least then Curtis could OWN his negativity and choices that pushed his husband out of his life rather than bitching and complaining about BLAMING everyone else for his choices.   

And they so never needed a second babbler on the show.  Felicity had that covered.  If they wanted another talkative person, they needed to make WHY they were talkative different.  Get someone young that just gets excited or has lots of questions.  That would go along with the super excited to be a hero person idea.  

I think the notion of a very straightforward, this is my lane and I'm going to stay in it, would be helpful on Arrow. We could probably benefit from more characters like the Doctor that just pops up to do her job and give some intel every once and a while.  Give them some contacts.  But keep them CLEARLY there just as supporting characters.  The NTA was enjoyable when they were just there as supporting characters.  It's when they tried to give them equal time and status to the OTA that I found them completely intolerable.  They were not set up as main characters.  The work wasn't put in.  The affection was never established.  Just showing them more and focusing on them doesn't endear a character.  Not when it detracts from the ones you are already there for.   

I also agree that you can't replace mentors but they should include characters of different ages.  It's silly having Diggle the oldest person on the show.  But that would mean, gasp, another character that isn't' there for the ACTION! and despite what the showrunners claim, they do care more about those action bits than the characters feelings.  

Edited August 13, 2018 by BkWurm1