Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[DrSpaceman10]

I like @dtissagirl's dream scenario for O/F, I just don't think the writers are capable of that level of complexity. 

[Guest]

Oh, for sure. I doubt it would happen because the writers have only proven time and again that they suck and can't write romance for shit. But we can dream! :D

[thegirlsleuth]

It's interesting, because until I started thinking about Season 5, I hadn't realized how completely I'd lost trust in the Arrow writers to stay reasonably true to character.  The Baby mama drama threw everyone's characterizations out the window--except, oddly, Laurel--and it was all for plot.  And the way they backed away from Olicity in the second half of the season, I'm not sure if it was to not salt the wounds of the Laurel fans, stalling the relationship, or so they can rebuild the relationship slowly, on solid ground.  I could see them having Felicity date other people, although I really worry that it will engender more hate for the character. It seems impossible that Mr. "You're my always" could date other people, but at this point I figure the writers might do anything. Does the Green Arrow have any comic romances other than the Black Canary that might pop up?

[quarks]

With the exception of Huntress and much more arguably, Isabel, introducing alternative love interests for Oliver and Felicity has not had a great track record on Arrow. Season one enjoyed relatively steady ratings right up until the point when the Oliver/Laurel/Tommy love triangle raised its ugly head again. There were many other reasons for this, granted, but it was a negative sign. Arrow lost about one-third of its viewers after hooking Oliver/Sara up in the second season, and regained viewers only after massively teasing Oliver and Felicity during the summer hiatus and doing a crossover with Flash. Season three was more mixed, but still featured the general trend of ratings/viewers dropping whenever Oliver and Felicity split up, even if it's very difficult to argue that the ratings/viewers dropped because of those breakups. Introducing Ray Palmer as an alternative love interest eventually forced Berlanti, the WB, and the CW to hire three more prestige actors plus a Doctor Who actor in order to launch a Brandon Routh centered spinoff, one of the factors that eventually made Legends of Tomorrow the hands down most expensive show on the CW.  And although in general, ratings have stopped declining since Oliver and Felicity became the main couple (another point in their favor), this last season, ratings and viewers fell again when Oliver/Felicity split up. The single most universally criticized plot last season?  The flashbacks - featuring a woman originally intended as another love interest.

What I'm saying is, pairing Oliver and Felicity up with other people has cost actual money. Sure, two of those alternative love interests ended up helping to launch a spinoff which became the CW's third highest rated show and has been renewed for another season, so, that's certainly an argument in favor of hooking them up with other people. And, well, it's television, and let's face it, Arrow has certainly done some questionable things as recently as the last episode. So I can't say that Oliver and Felicity won't try dating other people. But for now I think it's just as well to trust the money.

[ohjoy]

On November 20, 2014 at 2:11 PM, RandomMe said:

I know I've mentioned this before (so hopefully this doesn't sound repetitive), but it would be my favorite unexpected thing if they scrunched this "will they / won't they" crap down to only the next few episodes, and then it was over in early 3b. I tolerate the lead of the show being missing for some time better than I do unnecessary relationship melodrama. The way this show burns through plot, I would consider it a gift if we got pure, unadulterated Olicity for several episodes without having to wait til the end of the season. I wouldn't even complain if (when?) they split them up again after that. (I won't be watching after that, but I won't be complaining either.)

So I just quoted myself from back during late season 3a (around episode 6 or 7 I think), because apparently I got exactly what I asked for, I just got it in season 4 instead of season 3. But I went back on my own word, because they broke them up and I haven't quit the show yet. I might be the type of person feeding the showrunner's delusion that their contived angst antics (angstics?) have no negative impact on their viewing audience.

 

2 hours ago, Angel12d said:

I might be resigned to it but I legit have no interest in watching either Oliver or Felicity flirt and date someone else - like it's probably something that will finally make me drift away from the show because O/F's relationship is one of the last remaining reasons for my continued investment. And I feel like we're way past the point of no return here. If they wanted to mess around with new love interests they should have done that before they put O/F together in such a serious and committed way. 

So that's why my hope is the same as @dtissagirl: fakeout love interest. They can keep anything more. No thanks. Bye! Haha.

I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment -- unfortunately I think my "walking away from this show" is going to look a lot more like "recording all the episodes until O/F get back together, then trying to watch all the good parts to catch up."

O/F and OTA are pretty much the only things that interest me on the show anymore, but -- how does the song go? ".... you just keep me hanging on...."

Edited June 20, 2016 by RandomMe
Darn you autocorrect!

[DrSpaceman10]

31 minutes ago, quarks said:

Arrow lost about one-third of its viewers after hooking Oliver/Sara up in the second season, and regained viewers only after massively teasing Oliver and Felicity during the summer hiatus and doing a crossover with Flash. Season three was more mixed, but still featured the general trend of ratings/viewers dropping whenever Oliver and Felicity split up, even if it's very difficult to argue that the ratings/viewers dropped because of those breakups. . . And although in general, ratings have stopped declining since Oliver and Felicity became the main couple (another point in their favor), this last season, ratings and viewers fell again when Oliver/Felicity split up. The single most universally criticized plot last season?  The flashbacks - featuring a woman originally intended as another love interest.

But if splitting O/F up in Seasons Two and Three led to ratings/viewers dropping, why did they split them up again in Season Four? And what's to stop them from doing the same in Season Five? 

[way2interested]

41 minutes ago, DrSpaceman10 said:

But if splitting O/F up in Seasons Two and Three led to ratings/viewers dropping, why did they split them up again in Season Four? And what's to stop them from doing the same in Season Five? 

Splitting them up in s4 to me seemed like an inevitability because this is television and the main couple has to break-up at least once before getting back together for the long run, or at least I can see that as their reasoning for doing it. As for stopping them in s5, if the network sees the ratings drop as significant enough to act on and actually having something to do with O/F not being together (which we will never know, but we can follow trends), then the network can actually push (or sometimes force) the writers towards or away story decisions, like breaking them up again, having new love interests, etc.

Edited June 20, 2016 by way2interested

[looptab]

Yeah, @DrSpaceman10, I'm thinking they might do something like that. I think I might have written something similar myself a while back. As much as I like the 'just a couple episodes and it doesn't go anywhere' scenario,  I can totally see them delaying the reunion until the final episodes, and stretching it for the whole season with a new love interest that follows their usual pattern of 'lunge+6 episodes relationship+break-up'.

Though I agree that putting  either of them with someone else after this past few seasons will be a delicate matter, for sure.

[Password]

I can see Felicity trying to move on. It really depends on what happens during the hiatus. But Oliver-You're-My-Always-Queen? Noooooope. Perhaps after someone has prompted him to try, but not of his own volition.

If they introduce a Love Interest I would love if they changed up the pace whereby instead of stalling the main couple, the LI pushes them towards one another. 

[quarks]

1 hour ago, DrSpaceman10 said:

But if splitting O/F up in Seasons Two and Three led to ratings/viewers dropping, why did they split them up again in Season Four? And what's to stop them from doing the same in Season Five? 

I think they had multiple reasons for splitting them up in season four. First, several of those drops were also associated with other factors.  For instance, the big drop the season three premiere - when Oliver broke up with Felicity - was also associated with Sara's death.  "Uprising," when Oliver and Felicity broke up again, was followed by a drop - but was also followed by an episode called "Canaries" that was Laurel centric, and Laurel centric episodes are generally associated with drops. Second, television shows like to break up couples at least once before the engagement and then once again between the engagement and the wedding. Fans complain, yes, but then again, shows that do this can have fairly long runs (hi, Friends and Grey's Anatomy) and Arrow presumably is trying to get a six season run, if not more. It's very possible that this was a network-mandated breakup; given the lackluster job the writers did writing it, I'm inclined to think it was.  

(As a total sidenote, it's interesting that what brought Arrow to critical attention and earned its cult status was its willingness to break expectations and move away from this sort of television mandated thing - and yet, once Arrow became a cult hit, it's been forced not only to serve as a launching pad for other shows, but to follow crap like this. Success has its problems.)

On a plot level, third, Arrow had a dangling plotline in Samantha that needed to get tied up - it had been dangling for well over a season by this point. Fourth, this season, instead of playing with the usual themes of how to achieve justice and fly in robot suits, Arrow decided to play with this whole darkness/light thing.  Thing is, it's not all that suspenseful to have a happy Oliver think happy thoughts in order to defeat the darkness. In order to make it suspenseful, they had to drag Oliver back into the darkness and make him all mopey again so that we could believe that he couldn't think happy thoughts and be surprised when WOW, HE COULD. (Ok, I wasn't surprised, but that was the intent.) Since his happiness and light have been associated with Felicity, they had to take her away. 

Meanwhile, although Oliver and Felicity have now been broken up for about eight episodes, neither has shown even the smallest hint of dating other people -Oliver dumped Laurel again in the flashbacks and ended up not sleeping with Poppy. Felicity has been hanging out with her family and her new gay best friend, not a hot guy at work. Or Barry. Contrast to season one, where Oliver was hooking up with Laurel just five episodes after offering to move to another city to be with McKenna, not to mention Laurel hooking up with Oliver right after Tommy dumped her. Or, later in season two, saying "I love you" to Felicity barely three episodes after Sara dumped him. Or on Felicity's side, in season three kissing Ray just six episodes after Oliver dumped her, and sleeping with Ray just a couple episodes after dumping Oliver, or sleeping with Oliver in the same episode where Ray dumped her.  Thea and Diggle both moved on within eight episodes as well. 

They might date other people, sure. I'm just not seeing any signs that Arrow currently plans to do this. I could easily be wrong.

[TimetravellingBW]

Ugh, I really don't think Oliver/Felicity can take more cliched drama.  But as the writers have completely missed that Oliver/Felicity worked and were popular because they weren't angsty, melodramatic and on/off, they might merrily introduce more love triangles or love interests and pointless fights next season. 

Honestly, my only hope is that the showrunners looked at last season and realized no one - not critics, not Olicity fans, not comics fans, not general viewers, not Reddit, Tumblr or Twitter - liked the Baby Mama Drama. Seriously, I don't think I read a single positive thing about that arc from any source, apart from "h8ted the story but nolicity broke up 4EVER yay!" There were different reactions -  some people turned on Oliver, a lot turned on Felicity, most turned on the writers - but it was hated across the board. (Second only to the Flashbacks). I know the writers don't write according to fan reaction and the internet complaining, but they might have at least realized they made a mistake there and Olicity can't take more drama. They can't depend on SA and EBR's chemistry/acting to save their appalling writing. This isn't their chance to do Lauriver again with different actors, this is writing for what works and is organic for Olicity. (You like that word so much writers? Use it.)

If the break up was network mandated like @quarks suggested then I have more sympathy with the writers, but the poor Olicity build up in S3 is all on them, so they got themselves into the hole of rushing the couple into an engagement so early. 

S5 is their chance to redo what they should have done in S3: Sexual tension, flirting, slow build up and keeping it low-key. A new love interest doesn't make sense for either Oliver or Felicity's characters. Oliver basically took a vow of "Felicity or Celibacy For Life" after he took her out on that one date. Felicity takes relationships very seriously and takes a long to recover from them. (She didn't seem to have any serious boyfriends after Cooper "died" - and he was probably her first/only relationship - and took months to get together with Ray after one kiss with Oliver and then stayed close friends with him after their break up). 

[ohjoy]

Season 2a flirting and tension I can handle. Season 3a misery and longing I cannot. Neither one of them need to be dating anyone else.

[bijoux]

I had 201 on yesterday as background noise (so fun) and now I'm hoping Oliver and Felicity go get Dig back in the premiere. I'm not sure how it would work given that he's in the army (he's married to the head of ARGUS, surely something can be arranged), but we've had Felicity and Dig go get Oliver in season 2, and Thea and Laurel get Oliver and Felicity in season 4. It could be nice to have them do the same for Dig. 

It also made me idly wonder where Oliver will be running to. A town hall meeting or a function he's late for? I'm counting on the writers having him win the election pre-season, even if they have him step down later on, so I hope they let him be competent since this is the first job he's actually wanted.

[kismet]

Personally, I anticipate an injury is going to bring Dig home. Then in episodes 3-4 or so, OQ is going to get Dig back in the vigilante gig.

As for love interests, the biggest problem for me besides the fact that O/F are perfect for each other is that I just can't really see/want them dating other people. I can't really see OQ wanting to date other people after basically devoting his love to FS for 2 years officially and all the time before that unofficially. So for OQ to just start dating at this point would be odd for me.

I could see FS trying to move on. The biggest problem for me is when they write a FS with another guy plotline, I get extremely bored. It happened with Ray & Curtis. I think EBR is a great actress, I love her with the current cast - it's exhausting for me to watch her launch another new character which is what her love interest would be. It would be an entirely new male that I would have to become invested it and frankly the writers have already overcharged on all the other new characters they have forced me to put up with over the last 2 years. So even if it makes sense that FS would want to move on, I have no desire to see it. Perhaps in a dream world they can cast the perfect male equivalent of Lyla for FS. Lyla got introduced with no bells & whistles, consistently does an amazing jobs in her few minutes on Arrow and makes us all fall in love every time. But I doubt it.

And if I am choosing dream worlds, I would prefer we get back to O/F being amazing partners on all levels and just put them back in a drama free relationship, because it makes a far better show then all of these romantic shenanigans. I know its TV, but perhaps Arrow can rise above the cliches run-of-the-mill plot progressions just for this one couple. Let Thea have all the romantic drama, it would be a welcome change to all the Daddy issues.

Edited June 22, 2016 by kismet

[Guest]

My absolute ideal scenario would be no romance at all tbh. Because they went so far with O/F (she was the last thought before he 'died,' she's the love of his life, his always, she'd go anywhere with him, they were nearly married FFS etc etc), I can't ever see them dating or flirting or falling in love with anyone else, especially not Oliver, so I'd rather they stay in a friendly limbo for a while. They can get back their friendship, repair their relationship, maybe flirt a few times, and build things up slowly. Give us the build-up we should have had in s3a before he asked her on a date. And maybe there will be a later episode where an outside someone attempts to flirt with one of them and it makes them realize that they don't want anyone else and what the hell are they waiting for? And then it goes from there. 

Chances of it happening are basically slim to none though. But that would definitely be my ideal. I'm low-key dreading everything else tbh. Meh.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Guest

[tangerine95]

Idk, right now I don't really see any signs of them intending to introduce other LIs for Oliver or Felicity or doing another love triangle.They pretty much already did all possible versions of it for them so Idk what would be the point since they know from experience with Sara and Ray it's just all around hated.They made sure Oliver hasn't even looked at anyone else for 2 seasons, they didn't even tease anything with Laurel from Oliver's side, they even dropped the flashback LI.

I mean they did do the BM drama so that does raise the chances of them doing something like this, but I don't really see it based on how Oliver and Felicity have been written.I hope they know better than that. I  remember SA saying at the start of season 3 how introducing other LIs for Oliver would undermine what they're doing with olicity. And that was just after a date and a kiss, now they almost got married. 

[Carrie Ann]

I actually am not particularly concerned that there will be any Ray-like love interest for either of them, because I think it's in the show's best interest to take a break from "Olicity drama" for awhile. But I agree they do dumb things all the time. One issue I have with a new love interest for Felicity is that it wouldn't serve a purpose anymore. In S3, Oliver needed to come to the realization that he did want to be in a relationship with her, that it was possible. Ray was there to show him what that looked like. Felicity needed to learn that another guy wasn't going to cut it; Oliver was it for her. Now? Oliver basically knows all he needs to know regarding his feelings and desires, and the onus is not on him to make a romantic overture. Yes, he should hopefully do something that indicates his commitment to positive growth or whatever, but Felicity is the one who needs to indicate that she's open to returning to him before he should make some sort of move.

So, yeah, Felicity did nothing wrong and she's not the one who needs to prove she's changed (though I do hope she will do some growing as far as retreating into her pistachio shell). But she is the one who needs to have her mind changed (like Oliver in S3) that she can take the leap to trust him again, so any new love interest would need to be there to serve that purpose, and those dots just don't connect for me. Would it help Felicity to date someone else to realize, again, that she is not over Oliver? I guess? It just sounds repetitive and tiresome to me.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Carrie Ann

[looptab]

I agree that a new love interest for Felicity wouldn't make much sense wrt her making a leap of faith with Oliver. I think the general opinion is that if there's gonna be one, it'll be for Oliver? Granted, that doesn't make much sense, either. But I don't doubt that if they wanted, they'd do it "just because". Just to throw something at them. Kinda like Alex Pointless Political Consultant.

1 hour ago, Carrie Ann said:

I do hope she will do some growing as far as retreating into her pistachio shell). 

This is a great point, and honestly, something I do hope they'll expand on. I hope it wasn't just a throw-away line for Donna that they leave  at that. I want at least a serious conversation about it. How many times has Oliver had to ask Felicity to talk to him throughout S4? And  this has been there for a while. Even going back to S2e13. "You might have noticed that I talk a lot. You might have also noticed that I don't talk a lot about my family". That's something one wouldn't expect from her. She talks, she babbles, she speaks up her mind. Always. So what gives? Why can she talk about everything except the stuff that matters the most to her? Why can't she express her own troubles? 

Expand your characters. Write.

Edited June 22, 2016 by looptab

[kismet]

FS's character not be very willing to open share her personal emotions and experiences is one of the reasons I fell in love with her. I find that quality relatable. She might wear her heart on her sleeve, but she keeps her inner self protected. I get & appreciate that complexity & dichotomy. Personally, I can talk anyone's ear off - until they ask a personal question and then it's radio silence. I also thought it put her on even level with OQ and some of his trust issues. They both have a lot of blossoming to do. It's why I think them as a unit make a stronger team because they help each other break out of their emotional shells & walls. So as a character, I like that she still keeps a lot back.

However, I am over the writers using it as an excuse to not give her any POV at all. That needs to change now. FS may not tell the world her personal emotional juggernauts or inner secrets. But there has to be someone she is willing to tell stuff to, even if its only her reflection in the mirror. The writers need to stop leaning on that crutch and let the audience in FS's head from time to time, even if other characters are kept in the dark.

Edited June 22, 2016 by kismet

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Carrie Ann said:

So, yeah, Felicity did nothing wrong and she's not the one who needs to prove she's changed (though I do hope she will do some growing as far as retreating into her pistachio shell). But she is the one who needs to have her mind changed (like Oliver in S3) that she can take the leap to trust him again, so any new love interest would need to be there to serve that purpose, and those dots just don't connect for me. Would it help Felicity to date someone else to realize, again, that she is not over Oliver? I guess? It just sounds repetitive and tiresome to me.

This. Yeah, if there is a new love interest it seems to me that it would be one for Oliver, so Felicity could realize she still wants him. But we know that already? When she broke up with him she said she was still in love with him. And just the way she ran up and hugged him in one of the last episodes of the season and said she was glad he wasn't dead proves there are still feelings there. Plus she's staying with him, on the team. 

So I really don't know what a new love interest would achieve, apart from making it look like OIicity are over for good and they're both ready to move on? Maybe that's the way they'll go. I kinda doubt it (for reasons I've stated above) but it's always a possibility. Maybe they want to shelve the pairing for a couple of seasons. Who knows? IDK anymore.

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited June 22, 2016 by Guest

[Password]

5 hours ago, Angel12d said:

This. Yeah, if there is a new love interest it seems to me that it would be one for Oliver, so Felicity could realize she still wants him. But we know that already? When she broke up with him she said she was still in love with him. 

Yes. The writers made sure that the audience understood these two are still completely in love. The trust was broken, and that should be the focus of any repairs made. I'm uncertain what Oliver being in a relationship with next woman would accomplish towards his "man on the island" problem. Unless he's like "Felicity look I'm being honest and open Felicity look" whilst dating some other chick...

No. 

And if Oliver saw Felicity happy in a new relationship wouldn't he step back and let her be (like season 3)?

I'd definitely prefer if they worked their way back to one another sans Love Interest but I expect everything with these writers. 

[tv echo]

I'm still waiting for Oliver to take some action (and not just spout words) to show that he won't shut her out again.

Edited June 23, 2016 by tv echo

[ohjoy]

I admit I'm stumped as to how he would show that in a way that's different from what he did in 4x01-4x07. That was what their relationship was like before BMD, right? I supposed he could wait for the next crisis to hit and then bring her in immediately on that -- but the whole problem was that just because he includes her the next time doesn't guarantee that he won't decide to leave her out again at a later date. They have a legitimate issue (regardless of how the writers chose to portray it), but how do they have a legitimate resolution?

Honestly, I wish this was not the issue the writers decided to develop in Oliver for the purposes of relationship growth. Because the only response I can see being used to move them forward is Felicity basically admitting that it's on her to take Oliver at his word that he won't shut her out again. That's not a visually or emotionally compelling resolution to the very visible disaster the BMD was to precipitate the breakup. At this point I'd almost rather see them going, "What were we fighting about? I don't remember."

[kismet]

You know I've been thinking about the new contract that JB signed and it doesn't surprise me. As much as Arrow is a show for a certain age demographic, they also have to maintain some gravitas to balance out their storytelling. They just can't keep on killing all the older generation. As much as I'm sure they will never admit it, I feel like they realized they made a huge mistake by killing of ST so soon in the show's run. Her death made for phenomenal storytelling, but it has left a big void. Imagine how many of s3 & s4 arcs would have been better by having ST around to weigh in on the matter - even if it was from a prison cell.

It is one of the prime reasons, although I believe they have no clue about how to include MM into the current show, they are hesitant to kill him and let him go. Same reason why both PB & VG were on the shortlist to be let go in the audience's perspective, but both roles are too valuable to let go. You can't have a show of all 20-30yr olds, it just doesn't work for the type of stories these writers want to tell. I think part of the reason MM is not fitting in so well is because they are trying to give a parental figure to TA and they don't have one. Dig is too young. Donna is too flighty. There are no Queens left, which in my opinion has really damaged the show and contributed to its feeling adrift. The only logical solution is to bring in QL as Papabear. Which might work now that he doesn't have any more actual kids on the show. But they couldn't use him in s3 because of the whole vigilante task force. And s4, they needed someone with acting ability to infiltrate DD/Hive. So they were forced to put MM in the father to TA role, which was a total WTF moment. From then, its only gotten worse, because I think they are craving their parental issues moments so badly they forget that MM was & will never be a father figure. Not even in a Darth Vader sense.

However, now that they were able to secure JB but in a less restrictive role. They can bring him in for the gravitas moments, but keep him out of the day to day. It's what I thought they were going to do by having him take over the LoA. Clearly, I underestimated their desire to give the Queens surrogate Daddy issues. So I think this new contract is an upgrade for Arrow fans because we can get quality JB/MM without all the hassle of needing to find him something to do.

[TimetravellingBW]

On 7/9/2016 at 6:24 PM, kismet said:

You know I've been thinking about the new contract that JB signed and it doesn't surprise me. As much as Arrow is a show for a certain age demographic, they also have to maintain some gravitas to balance out their storytelling. They just can't keep on killing all the older generation. As much as I'm sure they will never admit it, I feel like they realized they made a huge mistake by killing of ST so soon in the show's run. Her death made for phenomenal storytelling, but it has left a big void. Imagine how many of s3 & s4 arcs would have been better by having ST around to weigh in on the matter - even if it was from a prison cell.

It is one of the prime reasons, although I believe they have no clue about how to include MM into the current show, they are hesitant to kill him and let him go. Same reason why both PB & VG were on the shortlist to be let go in the audience's perspective, but both roles are too valuable to let go. You can't have a show of all 20-30yr olds, it just doesn't work for the type of stories these writers want to tell. I think part of the reason MM is not fitting in so well is because they are trying to give a parental figure to TA and they don't have one.

So with you on how much killing Moira has killed the show. And if the writers are keeping MM around because they've realized - far too late - that they need a parental figure, then I have a little more respect for them.

But honestly if they need a father figure to bring gravitas to the angsty youths: WALTER. He certainly has the maturity, he can provide the out of lair/corporate/shady dealings/civilian storylines that have been missing since S2, he's willing to poke his nose into things, we don't know much about how the kidnapping and Moira's betrayal has impacted him so that's something to explore - maybe he's more bitter and jaded than previously. Plus he's already got genuine relationships with most of the team as Thea and Oliver's father/step-father and Felicity's boss. Also he's not in on Oliver's secret, so if he was around more it might actually bring back some tension about why Oliver has to hide his identity. Honestly imagine if this season had Walter turning up to advise Oliver on his mayor-hood (even as becoming Deputy Mayor if Quentin doesn't), helping Felicity get back PT or build her own company and reconnecting with Thea. Maybe if Oliver and Thea get closer to him again they'll worry if he finds out about their night time activities he'll walk away from them like he walked away from Moira. 

Seriously I'd be 100% more excited about Walter being a lead or even recurring character in S5 than any of the other casting announcements they've made. 

Edited July 12, 2016 by TimetravellingBW

[kismet]

Walter coming back would be amazing. I'm on board for that. I've been advocating his return since s3. I really thought they missed a beautiful opportunity for FS to turn to him for help, even if they only mentioned it in script. She joined TA to save him and felt respected by him, he would have been one of my email/calls when the board started acting up. They could find some way to make him recurring, but I wonder if Colin Salmon is just too busy or over Arrow.

[AyChihuahua]

On 6/20/2016 at 2:17 AM, quarks said:

They might date other people, sure. I'm just not seeing any signs that Arrow currently plans to do this. I could easily be wrong.

Well, 

Spoiler

Dettiot reported that SA told her that Felicity has a boyfriend when the season opens. So, there's that.

[TrueMyth]

There was a lot of the Arrow cast, particularly Amell, singing the praises of BamBam as a director.  It makes me really hope that he's learning things.  His second episode wasn't quite as bad as his first one out, after all.  I'm trying to make sense of how much the cast seem to love him compared to what I've seen him produce.  I really want to hold out hope, but I don't want to get my hopes too high.

[kismet]

22 minutes ago, TrueMyth said:

There was a lot of the Arrow cast, particularly Amell, singing the praises of BamBam as a director.  It makes me really hope that he's learning things.  His second episode wasn't quite as bad as his first one out, after all.  I'm trying to make sense of how much the cast seem to love him compared to what I've seen him produce.  I really want to hold out hope, but I don't want to get my hopes too high.

In one interview (I can't remember which) SA says that BamBam is the major force that is leading the renaissance or return to Arrow. He is the rejuvenating breath of fresh air to the show if you listen to SA and some of the cast. That is not just praise, that's near worship level. I'm really hoping it amounts to real substance and is not just a lot of hot air. Because even if it doesn't it looks like he is going to be around for a long time, so hopefully he will learn and get better.

[tv echo]

If I could craft Arrow's 100th episode, it would give significant screen time to all of the regular cast members (Oliver getting the most screen time of course, Felicity, Diggle, Thea, Curts and Quentin) - not just cameos (like the one Thea got in the crossovers). It would include flashbacks with Moira, Tommy and Laurel. It would include cameos by Walter, Roy and Donna. The theme of the episode would highlight Oliver's character journey from S1 to S5 (from killer to balanced) and his changing relationships (from solo to team, from emotionally closed to opening up to love). Only at the end would there be cameos of Barry, some Legends and Kara, to acknowledge the world that Arrow created.

Edited August 12, 2016 by tv echo

[SmallScreenDiva]

I want to move past the idea of Det. Tiny Hands so I ask, how do you think Oliver and Felicity will reconcile? Better yet, how do you want them to reconcile?

I want an all-out fight were they hash out their issues (maybe Felicity calling out Oliver on the lie and finally being allowed to be angry about it. Oliver providing a much better excuse for the lie other than "protecting" color boy. Oliver asking about Det. Tiny Hands and Felicity clearly voicing why she moved on) and then hot sex. 

How the show will have them reconcile is probably going to be unsatisfying to me. I'm guessing something along the lines of Digg and Oliver's reconciliation, where Oliver equated his lying and kidnapping of Lyla to Digg keeping his investigation into his brother a secret. So Felicity will probably hide Tiny Hands and be made to be in the wrong. And then they'll have Oliver jump in front of a bullet or do something construed to be romantic and all will be well. 

Edited October 8, 2016 by SmallScreenDiva

[Chaser]

For me the moments with the biggest impact tend to be the smaller ones. I hope they just fall into each other again. While they work as partners, while he is there for her with whatever she goes thru. I don't need a big dramatic gesture from him. I would really really really like him to let her know that what he said last year is still true: She is it for him (Think Mark to Lexie in Greys Anatomy). After a couple episodes, she decides that she is ready. And that's it. They elope. No more back and forth. 

Edited October 9, 2016 by Chaser

[BkWurm1]

I've typed and deleted and retyped and erased multiple paragraphs again and again, trying to decide what I need for it to work for me.

And the truth is I'll take anything, maybe not totally happily, but yeah, I'd take it and not ask too many questions. 

Which is probably a sign of how little satisfaction I think we will get.   On Felicity's side I'm expecting her to bring up not being able to get over him and then perhaps equate the difficult choice she had to make with Havenrock to Oliver having to keep William safe (oh I wish I didn't think that was a real possibility) and maybe talk about how hard it is sometimes to know if you are making the right choice and perhaps a reference to how she coped when her father left but now she knows things aren't that black or white.  I half expect Oliver not to have to say anything and instead when Felicity somehow hints that she thinks she's too late he just steps in and kisses her to prove it's not too late and the episode fades to black.  Cue a VERY long summer. 

No, I kid.  They probably would get back during sweeps but except for some passionate kiss that gets interrupted as they run off to finish saving the day, their romance will take a back burn and then once the big bad is defeated and everything seems wonderful, then Felicity gets kidnapped or forced to leave.  Yup, I'm bringing back my theory that at the end of the season it will be Felicity's turn leave Star City for some reason. 

[ohjoy]

Honestly, my fear right now is that the FP changes will anger me so much that I won't be able to tolerate the show long enough to stick around for whatever paltry reconciliation scenario they deign to give us.

[Guest]

I can pretty much guarantee I'm not going to be 100% satisfied with whatever reunion they have, if/when it happens. Giving Felicity a boyfriend basically confirmed that (I wanted O/F to remain single and work their way back to each other by the end of s5, having slowly rebuilt their trust/relationship).

But I guess a heated discussion/fight about their issues, clearing the air and apologies followed by some sexy times against the wall would be okay too. USE THE GODDAMN WALL, OLIVER! Hehe. I just wonder if I'm even going to care by the time it eventually happens. I know there's a lot of discussions about O/F being endgame but that doesn't really matter to me as much as the journey there. So if I don't like what's happening along the way, will the end result even matter? Guess we'll see.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Guest

[Trini]

Have any Flashpoint changes actually been mentioned in any of the new Arrow episodes so far?

[dtissagirl]

2 minutes ago, Trini said:

Have any Flashpoint changes actually been mentioned in any of the new Arrow episodes so far?

John Jr. was mentioned in the latest episode.

[bijoux]

Dig and Lyla talked about John Jr. last night.

[TrueMyth]

So, I seriously doubt that it will happen because of real world realities like Colin Donnell's other jobs, but I would so much LOVE if Tommy Merlyn was Prometheus.  I'm totally fine if he stays in the shadows and has a stunt actor playing him for most of the season, but it would make for such an awesome narrative if they could just get Colin back for, say, a five episode arc at the end.  Also, I think I'd like to see him kill himself at the end of the season to make a change from the big "Oliver must commit to killing the big bad" moments that are such a predictable part of the season endings (although I do think it would bring a new level to that trope if he had to commit to killing Tommy).

This reveal would also strengthen the narrative in other places: 

* Malcolm Merlyn's resistance to using the Lazarus Pit for Thea - if he had somehow snuck in or used his LoA contacts to resurrect Tommy and Tommy came back WRONG... so wrong with only crazy Daddy Merlyn to try to nurse him (we know that would NOT be a help), then I could see him not wanting to pit Thea.  If a rogue element of the LoA was helping, it would also explain Prometheus's skill with a bow and arrow.

* The fact that he shows up after Laurel dies fighting with the Green Arrow.  It would be the perfect final trigger for a Lazarus-screwed Tommy's revenge.  Obviously Oliver is not responsible for Laurel's death any more than Felicity is responsible for Havenrock, but there are some nice parallels there, too.

I know this is not likely to happen, but then again I was pretty darn certain at this time last year that Laurel would NOT be in the grave.  So I'm going to dream just a little bit for now.  Maybe some kind soul will write an awesome spec fic along these lines (It's not far off some existing fic).

Edited October 22, 2016 by TrueMyth

[ohjoy]

I've been wanting Tommy to come back in a Jason Todd / Lazarus Pit Gone Wrong scenario pretty much since the possibility of using the pit for Thea was introduced, for all the reasons you mentioned. I agree it's the longest of long shots, but keep hope alive!

[Chaser]

That just makes me think of Jensen Ackles playing Prometheus.

Oh that would be so good. 

[BkWurm1]

How about the big reveal is that Oliver had a mental breakdown, now has multiple personalities.  He's Prometheus.  Twist five years in the making!

[calliope1975]

Maybe all of this is in his head and Oliver's still floating around on a raft somewhere with his dead dad and first mate to keep him company. 

[catrox14]

24 minutes ago, Chaser said:

That just makes me think of Jensen Ackles playing Prometheus.

Oh that would be so good

I've thought it's either Roy/Jason Hood or Bizarro!Oliver.  I would lose my mind if Jensen showed up as Prometheus. I would be ecstastic.  And it's tempting to think it could happen especially since Jensen and Jared were on the Flash set to shoot the promos.  NOOOO. I won't hope for it. I just won't!

ETA: Okay okay, I may or may not have rewound and/or  freeze framed every Prometheus appearance to look for Jensen's bowlegs and broad shoulders. And the side angles have not helped me my investigation.

Edited October 23, 2016 by catrox14

[Chaser]

Lol I'm pretty sure it's a pipe dream but man it's a good one.

[EmeraldArcher]

12 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

How about the big reveal is that Oliver had a mental breakdown, now has multiple personalities.  He's Prometheus.  Twist five years in the making!

That would be incredibly consistent with the way they've portrayed his hero's journey to this point, so why not? 

ETA: As in, he's often a paradox of being both the hero and the villain because they regress his character to the point that he's back to killing willy nilly, he's lied to team mates and his fiancé, he's teamed up with villains . . . 

Edited October 23, 2016 by EmeraldArcher
Original post didn't convey an appropriate degree of bitterness to accurately reflect how I feel. :-)

[DeadZeus]

On 23-10-2016 at 8:23 AM, BkWurm1 said:

How about the big reveal is that Oliver had a mental breakdown, now has multiple personalities.  He's Prometheus.  Twist five years in the making!

Yea. Until i see Prometheus and GA in the same room with other ppl in it to witness them both, i am assuming Prometheus is Oliver's alter ego from Flashpoint and somehow his mind got fused with our Oliver when Barry put everything back. (probably due to Alchemy) Would be cool if also Prometheus doesn't know they are actually in the same body though.

I'd rather have this then have the new DA be Prometheus cuz im sick of Oliver looking like a fool when the enemy is right infront of him and he can't even read them even after all his experience.

[Morrigan2575]

On 10/23/2016 at 2:23 AM, BkWurm1 said:

How about the big reveal is that Oliver had a mental breakdown, now has multiple personalities.  He's Prometheus.  Twist five years in the making!

I said tweeks ago and people said I was crazy.

[Mellowyellow]

5 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I said tweeks ago and people said I was crazy.

Haha I'm going to get caned for this but if they have Prometheus Oliver kidnap Felicity and obsess over her I'll forgive them for BMD!

Not going to happen cuz I can't have nice things when it comes to TV.

[Ophanim]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Haha I'm going to get caned for this but if they have Prometheus Oliver kidnap Felicity and obsess over her I'll forgive them for BMD!

Not going to happen cuz I can't have nice things when it comes to TV.

OMG, I would love that! :D