Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[statsgirl]

In the Laurel thread, I commented that I thought that Laurel would have an increased role in S4 because TPTB want to promote their costumed superheroes. 

My hope if that they learned during this season that just because they want to recreate the comics or create a costumed hero, it doesn't necessarily translate to the TV screen. My fear is that they didn't, and that Diggle getting a mask and costume is yet another step down that slippery road.

 

I hope that if Laurel does get more storylines, they will be her own stories rather than part of Team Arrow's because I don't see how she can fit it. It's going to be like Ray, that as a comic book figure she's too powerful to be a sidekick, but as a character on the show, she's going to take over Diggle's and Felicity's time, unlike Roy who realy fit in seamlessly.  Hopefully Thea will fit in the same way as well.

 

Someone suggested a human trafficking ring for a Laurel story. It's darker than most of the show's arcs but I think it could work for her and give her hero cred which she sorely lacks.

 

I want there to be some acknowledgement of Sara's return, but not more than one or two episodes because I've had enough of the Lance Family Drama from season 2.  I want her to have a love interest who is not Oliver, and no more than a brief scene about Oliver cheating on her with his babymama because that's no longer a part of her life and it serves no storytelling purpose to have her get mad at Oliver again.  (Unless she decided not to work with him any  more. I could go for that.)  What I really hope for is that Laurel is going to be more an ADA than a vigilante but I know I'm not going to get that.

[Morrigan2575]

While I am in no means against redoing the characters from their comics origins to fit the screen, some things have to remain the same. GA outfit, specifically the hood is an iconic part of his outfit, as his bow and arrow use. it be like batman not having bat ears, or superman's house of El symbol on his.

Wait, who is the hood iconic too? TV Viewers? I guess, they made a big deal of the origin of the hood being important to Oliver's history with Shado and Yao Fei.

To comic readers? Not that I'm aware of. From what I remember, the hood didn't come into play until recently and was adapted to the comics from Smallville's GA. I remember comic fans reacting negatively to Comic Ollie being de-aged and given the Smallville look back in 2010-2011. 52 Green Arrow/Arrow also followed Smallville's look. If anything about Comics GA could be considered iconic it would be that awful goatee/van dyke and thankfully Arrow said Hell No to that look.

ETA: Looks like the modern Hood costume appeared in 2006. It was adapted from the design used in Grell's Longbow Hunters story.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[BkWurm1]

With Diggle also getting some identity concealment, it will be interesting to see what way they take the new outfits for both of them. I seriously can't imagine them losing the sleeves though on either outfit. The sleeves help protect the actors & the stunt doubles and that likely takes precedence over other ideas. Also in comics the sleeveless aspect helps to show muscle definition, which is not necessarily needed in multidimensional live-action work. We can see their muscles through the outfits with the proper tailoring & material selection.

 

I'll very honest.  I would gladly trade some credibility for a constant peek at the guns DR has hiding under his jackets.  Bring on the sleeveless look for John Diggle.  Even if only for one episode, like maybe they didn't have a chance to sew on the sleeves yet.  I am open to some fan servicing here. 

[catahoulamama]

Given the frequent chilly, wet weather in VC, it's probably unlikely we'll get sleeveless anything. Maybe they could do a sleeveless vest type thing with tight fitting under armor underneath? We could still see the gun show that way. I could see them switching from the leather pants for Oliver to something cargo-ish. It would be much more conducive to parkour & fight sequences. It'll be interesting though if they get rid of the leather for him but keep BC's leather painted on from head to toe. #DoubleStandard

[wonderwall]

SA is vehemently against a sleeveless GA outfit so I think we're good

[kismet]

Someone suggested a human trafficking ring for a Laurel story. It's darker than most of the show's arcs but I think it could work for her and give her hero cred which she sorely lacks.

I had mentioned the human trafficking plot line. I think it is the best way to interweave LL, TA & Bratva flashbacks (with present day Bratva connections/plots). From what I've read about BC she is a defender of women. Women & children are some of the most common victims of human trafficking. LL could be trying to take down the issue both during the day as a lawyer & at night as BC.

 

Human Trafficking has been linked to Eastern Europe, it would not be that far of a stretch that Bratva would perhaps have their hand in it. OQ having to deal with his Bratva connections both in fb & present day regarding human trafficking would interesting for his character. They have tackled financial crimes, petty crimes, revenge murders, bioweapons & drugs. They need to tackle another criminal justice issue. It is a very dark topic, but Arrow is gritty & dark, so it works. I also think it is a big enough storyline/issue that it can be carried over from season 4 to 5 if they were inclined.

 

This is just my speculation - but I feel like s4 is going to have a very definite split to it. I feel like OQs priority in s4a will be to set up the LoT, thus keeping him off the streets while waiting for the Anti-Arrow sentiment to die down in SC. As a result, I think they will be having LL & Thea taking care of crime in SC. FS will be busy with finding RP & the fall out of Palmer tech explosion. Dig & HIVE will be introduced, but I think it will simmer until 4b. I feel like 4b is when they will introduce the Bratva FB & then that will carry over until s5. HIVE will probably resolve by end of s4. But I think Damien Darhk has the potential to be a multi-season villain, esp if he starts to twist MM into his corner.

[BkWurm1]

I really question if we will get the Bratva this season. I have a feeling it would take care of the season big bad in the present and in flashbacks. I think they are saving it for season five.

I know the port of origin on a ship in real life doesn't tell you where it's going but this is a TV show and Oliver got on a boat in Hong Kong that said Coast City not Russia. They had to remove the Russian lettering on the boat the were using before airing the episode. I think we are getting Oliver learning to fly and a guy that will end up being Hal Jordon though maybe not identified by name. Maybe he's a smuggler using an alias. Maybe they will both be.

If we were to get. Bratva, I'd think they'd try to secure the actor that played Anatole. Anyone heard anything about what projects that guy is working on?

[catahoulamama]

I really question if we will get the Bratva this season. I have a feeling it would take care of the season big bad in the present and in flashbacks. I think they are saving it for season five.

I know the port of origin on a ship in real life doesn't tell you where it's going but this is a TV show and Oliver got on a boat in Hong Kong that said Coast City not Russia. They had to remove the Russian lettering on the boat the were using before airing the episode. I think we are getting Oliver learning to fly and a guy that will end up being Hal Jordon though maybe not identified by name. Maybe he's a smuggler using an alias. Maybe they will both be.

If we were to get. Bratva, I'd think they'd try to secure the actor that played Anatole. Anyone heard anything about what projects that guy is working on?

By his twitter account, it looks like he lives in Vancouver, so that could help with the availability question. 

[arjumand]

Given the frequent chilly, wet weather in VC, it's probably unlikely we'll get sleeveless anything. Maybe they could do a sleeveless vest type thing with tight fitting under armor underneath? We could still see the gun show that way. I could see them switching from the leather pants for Oliver to something cargo-ish. It would be much more conducive to parkour & fight sequences. It'll be interesting though if they get rid of the leather for him but keep BC's leather painted on from head to toe. #DoubleStandard

 

SA is vehemently against a sleeveless GA outfit so I think we're good

 

I'm feeling greatly reassured by this - I went on youtube, and turns out the Smallville GA suit was dumber than I remembered - not only does Ollie have even less peripheral vision in the Smallville hood, he'd wearing dark glasses instead of a mask. At night. Ugh. ETA Forgot to mention the enormous codpiece. Bleurgh.

 

I have a certain weakness for the cargo/combat pants, so I wouldn't mind that, TBH.

Edited June 2, 2015 by arjumand

[Sunshine]

So, based on starcitysoul's ask and MG's answer, should I be pessimistic about S4 since the only character onscreen I have no use for is LL? ;)

 

If Sandra and Connor Hawke aren't in S4 does that mean no baby/baby mama drama? Or does it mean there will be baby/baby mama drama in S4 but they won't be Sandra and Connor Hawke?  Questions, questions... Go away MG.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Sunshine

[Password]

So, based on starcitysoul's ask and MG's answer, should I be pessimistic about S4 since the only character onscreen I have no use for is LL? ;)

 

If Sandra and Connor Hawke aren't in S4 does that mean no baby/baby mama drama? Or does it mean there will be baby/baby mama drama in S4 but they won't be Sandra and Connor Hawke?  Questions, questions... Go away MG.

Sandra might not be in Arrow but the writers could somehow get her on The Flash. Like season 1. We just have to watch both.

[apinknightmare]

Sandra might not be in Arrow but the writers could somehow get her on The Flash. Like season 1. We just have to watch both.

Anything to do with Oliver's kid is too huge a development to have on another show, so that's probably where it'll happen.

[Sunshine]

Sandra might not be in Arrow but the writers could somehow get her on The Flash. Like season 1. We just have to watch both.

I was just wondering, since they have never given names in either show, if we are still getting the story but with characters who have different names for whatever reason.

 

I think I am done with The Flash.  I watched all 23 eps in S1 but between the way Felicity was written in her appearance with Ray, Cisco's nerdgasms over meeting BC, Joe's constant negative remarks about Oliver even though Arrow has been more than helpful in both 1.08 & 1.22, and the Tommying of Eddie in the finale I think I've had enough.  (I don't usually read press about The Flash but I did read one AK interview after the finale.  It was about Barry & Iris moving forward in S2 after Eddie's death.  I swear it was word for word what he said about Oliver/Laurel in S2 after Tommy's death. The interviews are reruns!)   

Edited June 2, 2015 by Sunshine

[Chaser]

I find it odd that he is denying Sandra and Connor will be in S4. Pretty sure they have been setting that up since S2.  I figure he is either toying with his words or they decided that they didn't want to add another soap opera element to the show after the angst-heavy S3.

 

His responses to Laurel and Team Arrow are always the same. Start of the season - Laurel is apart of Team Arrow  NOW. Oliver's death mid-Season - She is totally apart of Team Arrow NOW. Oliver joins the LOA - Laurel is apart of the new Team Arrow NOW. End of S3 - She is really apart of Team Arrow NOW.  Something is getting lost in translation if people are still arguing the point.

 

Pet Peeve - Oliver hung up the hood and left town with Felicity. There is literally no Arrow to start S4 with, so no one is a member of Team Arrow now.

 

Im hoping its a first week return to writers room Tumblr spree and then he just keeps quiet. Maybe he is feeling out the audience. It is nice when he is radio silent.

 

Please.

[calliope1975]

While I'd rather any kid story line be dropped forever and never picked up again, I have almost no doubt there will be baby mama drama next year. I agree they'll probably have different names. MG is the trolliest of trolls, and I can't trust him. 

[statsgirl]

Yeah, giving them different names would release MG from having to follow the comics canon (does he realize how burned they got by that this season?) and from complaints about them not being "casted correctly"  i.e. babymama being Caucasian.

[wingster55]

There is literally no Arrow to start S4 with, so no one is a member of Team Arrow now.

 

Unless Thea calls herself the Red Arrow

[apinknightmare]

Yeah, giving them different names would release MG from having to follow the comics canon (does he realize how burned they got by that this season?) and from complaints about them not being "casted correctly"  i.e. babymama being Caucasian.

It is strange that they haven't ever given the mom a name - I always figured we were going to find out that this woman really did miscarry and that the kid she spoke to on The Flash was someone else's and that we were going to find out that Sandra was someone Oliver had a fling with in high school or something so they could age the kid up a bit. So, if the mom and child are just some randos, people who've been expecting Sandra/Connor ever since she was introduced are going to be disappointed, haha. 

[catahoulamama]

While I'd rather any kid story line be dropped forever and never picked up again, I have almost no doubt there will be baby mama drama next year. I agree they'll probably have different names. MG is the trolliest of trolls, and I can't trust him. 

THIS. Some of ya'll are being too kind - MG "toying with words" etc.  I'd not be surprised if he's flat out lying. I could see them rubbing their hands together and twirling their imaginary mustaches in the writers' room over the angsty possibility of Oliver's wayward son wreaking all kinds of soapy drama in the future. It would haul Laurel right back into some sort of relevance as it would open all kinds of old wounds there because she was the one he cheated on, etc. *yawn* Of course, this would likely be just about the time that New! & Improved! Team Arrow is hunky dory and working like a well oiled machine again.   I don't mind if they bring the kid in at some point, but to use it (like we all know they'd love to) to dredge up all kinds of personal drama amongst Oliver and his past and present womenfolk is just tired and tropey.

[Starfish35]

About MG saying Sandra and Conner would not appear in season four......

I expect this means that we'll discover that the woman we've been assuming to be Sandra Hawke is actually not. I think we will see her and her child in season four though.

Call me cynical, but I think she probably was supposed to be Sandra, but they suddenly realized how upset people would get for making Connor white. So, since they had a out (having never actually mentioned her name on the show), she and her child will end up being someone else.

ETA: And no, if this woman is not Sandra, we don't even know for sure that her child is a boy. That's never been confirmed in-show one way or another.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Starfish35

[Sunshine]

I don't know that he has ever outright lied. I also don't remember everything he says, so IDK. I think he says things which set expectations and when they don't materialize the way people thought they would they feel like they have been lied to. This is why Sandra and Connor Hawke not being in S4 doesn't mean baby mama & child won't show up in S4. People, including show actors, have assumed that is who they are. Do we even know for a fact -in show-that the baby is a boy? (I can't remember what she said in the Flash episode when she called.)

[BunsenBurner]

Guggie doesn't have to lie if the baby mama shows up on The Flash again. She doesn't necessarily have to appear on Arrow now does she? If she appears on The Flash Guggie won't be writing the story. Hence not lying.

[Belinea]

 Do we even know for a fact -in show-that the baby is a boy? (I can't remember what she said in the Flash episode when she called.)

It wasn't mentioned in the call... She just called the child 'sweetheart'. 

[apinknightmare]

Didn't MG say at some point near the end of the season that the kid comes up in S4? SA did as well-at a con, IIRC. So the mother/kid are characters other than Sandra/Connor, they're mentioned but never shown, or they're not picking up that storyline this season after all.

Since we never got the mother's first name, I'm guessing her name is something other than Sandra.

[Chaser]

I'm wondering how much is really on the board for them right now. I hear conflicting things from all parties. Their feedback must look like a mess this season.

[catahoulamama]

Has he ever flat out lied? Serious question, because I can't remember.

Responding to baby mama stuff in Hopes and Fears.

Let's just say he chooses his words *very carefully* so when called on things later, he can point to and say he never actually *said* x, y, or z. IMO, the person who asked about baby mama and child wanted to know if the show would be going there next season. Like others have said here, they could rename them, or tweak it in a number of ways to make his answer "true", but AFAIC, it's essentially still a lie if they do the babymama story in S4, because that was the crux of the question. 

That pic of EBR really looks alot like Caity Lotz!

[Sunshine]

Another way of looking at it...he said Sandra and Connor.  Perhaps we will get either Sandra or Connor. LOL!

 

Is it possible they were planning on doing the storyline and WB/DC said not this season?  They need to focus on the masked characters and launching LOT.  Anything, specifically Oliver and Arrow related can take a back seat.

[FurryFury]

Or maybe they've realized it was a stupid idea in the first place.

[statsgirl]

This is the CW.  Soapy dramas are their bread and butter.  Just look at Barry crying over his mom in The Flash finale.

 

LoT premiers mid-season. Even if 4A is about getting it launched, there's plenty of room in 4B for baby and mama related.

[ruby24]

I think I am done with The Flash.  I watched all 23 eps in S1 but between the way Felicity was written in her appearance with Ray, Cisco's nerdgasms over meeting BC, Joe's constant negative remarks about Oliver even though Arrow has been more than helpful in both 1.08 & 1.22, and the Tommying of Eddie in the finale I think I've had enough.  (I don't usually read press about The Flash but I did read one AK interview after the finale.  It was about Barry & Iris moving forward in S2 after Eddie's death.  I swear it was word for word what he said about Oliver/Laurel in S2 after Tommy's death. The interviews are reruns!)   

That's worrying for The Flash. Although I would think they're probably not in for a total rerun of that, since there's no Felicity equivalent to turn into a replacement love interest, and I doubt they'd want one of their characters to wallow in depression for too long, since they know the appeal of the show is its lightness and fun.

[AyChihuahua]

Realistically, Ollie probably has several baby mamas.  Gross, of course, but he was a real slore. 

 

I love Blood Hands by Bre as much as anyone, but I don't want show Bratva Oliver involved in human trafficking, unless he's working to take it down from the inside.  And honestly, this show may be gritty and all, but I have not seen Oliver do anything yet either in present time or flashbacks that bothers me at all, so I don't know how dark they will really take him, since he's supposed to be a superhero (eventually) and all.  I mean, in S1 he killed bad guys and bad guys' henchmen...no biggie.  He killed a drug dealer to children in S3 flashbacks, killed some bad guys, tortured that evil general, and faked being brainwashed by the LOA...pretty meh on the evil scale (which I'm fine with).  However, human trafficking involves gang rape of women and children, which is absolutely horrific.  I don't even want to see Anatoly involved in that, since I rather like him.  

[jay741982]

I originally posted these in the Spoilers thread, but then re-read The Summer Spoiler Rules (which say that anything tweeted by MG is not a spoiler) and moved them here.

 

MG's back on tumblr -- http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/...

That question about Laurel that freaking bugs me that it's assumed OTA fans in the minority! How the Hell does that person know that? Plus OTA is the best! And personally as a OTA fan I don't mind Thea being in the group and didn't mind Roy either

[statsgirl]

I think human trafficking would not be something Oliver could never recover from in terms of the support of a sizable part of the audience.

 

Also, and maybe it's wishful thinking, I don't think it's organic to Oliver who even in Hong Kong was about protecting the weak and defenseless. Wasn't it his idea to stop the virus rather than just immunize himself and get out of town?

[Starfish35]

I don't want the show to do a human trafficking storyline. Just....no. It's too dark for a show like this, and I don't trust these writers at all.

[AyChihuahua]

I think human trafficking would not be something Oliver could never recover from in terms of the support of a sizable part of the audience.

 

Also, and maybe it's wishful thinking, I don't think it's organic to Oliver who even in Hong Kong was about protecting the weak and defenseless. Wasn't it his idea to stop the virus rather than just immunize himself and get out of town.

That's what I mean...people keep speculating that presentOliver will go lighter while pastOliver goes superdark, and I feel like my definition of superdark and the show's differ quite a bit, but I'm happy about that, as I think it's a strong indicator that they won't really go THAT dark with him.  Involvement in human trafficking is about as dark as you can go, so I am both hopeful and optimistic that they will not do anything like that.  I mean, they made SUCH a big deal out of the darkness of 3.21, and he was a jerk and Diggle has a right to be mad, but geez, it was more dumb than evil.  (Hee, Oliver's S3 motto!)  I mean, Guggie was going on and on about all the blood that would be on Oliver's hands by the end of the season, and he killed an LOA henchman he was hallucinating to be Diggle and Ra's.  Who else did he kill all season in present day?  Honestly, as far as I'm concerned he can kill bad guys all day long.  

 

I had a thought about S3's villain problem.  Neither the flashbacks nor current day had a clear or interesting villain, which really was such a weakness.  S1 had Fyers/Malcolm, S2 had Ivo/Slade.  S3 had...ennui/identity issues?  When did Arrow become French cinema?  

Edited June 3, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[tarotx]

Well stupid Oliver could be used to human traffic and not know it. Perhas he thinks he's helping, later finds out and goes bat shit crazy in retaliation.

Edited June 2, 2015 by tarotx

[catahoulamama]

 

I don't want the show to do a human trafficking storyline. Just....no. It's too dark for a show like this, and I don't trust these writers at all.

 

I agree. Plus, S4 is supposedly going to be lighter so human trafficking doesn't mesh with that at all. Last season was so depressing and the feedback, despite the ratings, was mixed.  Can't see them going with a heavy, dark story/topic like that just now.

Edited June 2, 2015 by catahoulamama

[tarotx]

S3 was more depressing without hope than dark. I can get behind a good dark as long as the characters are striving to be happy and communicate with each other.

[kismet]

Human trafficking is a relevant social justice issue that needs attention. It is dark but its also a serious issue. I think Arrow could handle it. They need to do something with some realistic gravitas after the existential angst that filled this season. But Im optimistic at this point in the season for thd writing. Ive also watched too many snippets of Law &Order SVU this month at work- that show is always on. So my head is floating in horrific crimes. It just feels like it woild be a good fit, especially if they're trying to figure out something to do with LL/BC.

People here are making good points that perhaps OQ should not be involved in it directly that might be too far for him to come back from. Indirectly I could see him having a small part in the trade without his knowledge. I could see his present day self using his Bratva connections to bring down a ring. He also could have tried to take it down in flashbacks too & failed. Or maybe he succeeded and was rewarded captain ranking because taking apart the ring was part of a power struggle. Perhaps Anatoly was not one running it but trying to take it apart - maybe that's how he wound up on the amazo.

I also think this season was more depressing than dark. There is a way to balance the dark subject matter with a lighter tone. Regardless of whether they do trafficking or not, I think OQ will be darker in flashbacks at some point in the series. I just thought it would be more interesting to have him do something other than just assassinating people or running missions.

Question- what are people's thoughts about what he did for Bratva? If not trafficking than what? I can't see him involved in drug trade. I guess he could be hired assassin/muscle, but that's boring.

[AyChihuahua]

Human trafficking is a relevant social justice issue that needs attention. It is dark but its also a serious issue. I think Arrow could handle it. They need to do something with some realistic gravitas after the existential angst that filled this season. But Im optimistic at this point in the season for thd writing. Ive also watched too many snippets of Law &Order SVU this month at work- that show is always on. So my head is floating in horrific crimes. It just feels like it woild be a good fit, especially if they're trying to figure out something to do with LL/BC.

People here are making good points that perhaps OQ should not be involved in it directly that might be too far for him to come back from. Indirectly I could see him having a small part in the trade without his knowledge. I could see his present day self using his Bratva connections to bring down a ring. He also could have tried to take it down in flashbacks too & failed. Or maybe he succeeded and was rewarded captain ranking because taking apart the ring was part of a power struggle. Perhaps Anatoly was not one running it but trying to take it apart - maybe that's how he wound up on the amazo.

I also think this season was more depressing than dark. There is a way to balance the dark subject matter with a lighter tone. Regardless of whether they do trafficking or not, I think OQ will be darker in flashbacks at some point in the series. I just thought it would be more interesting to have him do something other than just assassinating people or running missions.

Question- what are people's thoughts about what he did for Bratva? If not trafficking than what? I can't see him involved in drug trade. I guess he could be hired assassin/muscle, but that's boring.

I'm personally neutral on a present-day trafficking storyline, with the heroes working to take it down.  I just really don't want, or expect, Flashback Oliver to be involved in running one.  That is too horrific for me.  I'd be okay with the drug trade.  I mean, it's awful, but at least people sort of voluntarily take drugs.  Maybe smuggling something other than people?  The Bratva is probably also involved in regular industry in Russia, and politics...I think Russia is pretty corrupt over all.

[BunsenBurner]

What if the girl that Oliver saw at Jitters in Central City was a girl he saved from human trafficking? Just a thought.

[kismet]

What if the girl that Oliver saw at Jitters in Central City was a girl he saved from human trafficking? Just a thought.

Nice thought... but I'm pretty sure the Jitters girl is the same one he impregnated in the flashbacks of Arrow s2. Believe it might have been the same actress, unless she has a twin too.

 

Which brings me to my really far-fetched speculation of the moment ~ do we think that Mai could be one of the eventual baby OQ MamaDramas? Didn't OQ & Shado have a kid in the comics? I feel like the gotcha of showing Mai in the fb could be more than just having an apartment for the triad to blow up and a way to show FB OQ finally taking a shower. I wouldn't put it past the writers to swap one comic destiny from sister to sister. Imagine the possibilities if they are twins?!?

Edited June 3, 2015 by kismet

[EmeraldArcher]

Question- what are people's thoughts about what he did for Bratva? If not trafficking than what? I can't see him involved in drug trade. I guess he could be hired assassin/muscle, but that's boring.

I think he might be an assassin. During S3 (maybe "The Offer"?), OQ responds to FS's question about how he could even consider joining the LoA with "I've been an assassin." At the time, I thought we would see him be an assassin during S4 or S5 flashbacks because I don't think we've seen him in that role yet in any season's flashbacks. I guess he could have been describing his actions as The Hood in S1, but I don't think he saw himself like that. For example, he had pretty telling discussions with Helena about how he only killed when necessary. The only other period of time that we've already seen was maybe the flashbacks in S3. However, he learned to torture people and a lot of other things from AW, but was not an assassin. Therefore, I think he must become one in an upcoming season's flashbacks, and it makes sense that it would be for the Bratva.

[Balaclava]

Question- what are people's thoughts about what he did for Bratva? If not trafficking than what? I can't see him involved in drug trade. I guess he could be hired assassin/muscle, but that's boring.

 

Honestly i'm expecting Oliver to go a lot darker in the flashbacks, at some point he became a killer, and if something transformed him into that, my money is on Bravta.

As to what i think he did for the Bravta i would say something important,he didn't become a captain/Brigadier only by stilling wallets although it's a possibility he did that too, or started by doing that.

From what i can make out of the Bravta hierarchy, captains are leaders of small groups of men that answer to the pakhan/head and go by the bratva's guidelines to keep the illegal activities alive and make as much money as they can.

The two main illegal activities for them is human and drugs trafficking, so i expect Oliver to come in contact with it at some point.

If he was involved directly or not with it, that depends on what the eps are willing to do, but i wouldn't be surprised by it at all. This is the Russian mafia, not a knitting club....and i'll ignore the LOA looked like one at times in S3

It's always possible that he was in charge of security,maybe the Pakhan security? But i doubt that we would be a captain immediately, so i bet he had to do some pretty nasty things to get there, killing and torture are on the list.

We'll see, i guess.

[AyChihuahua]

In real life, the Bratva is definitely involved in human trafficking for sexual purposes.  My point is that I don't want or expect the show to have Oliver involved in human trafficking for sexual purposes.  He is supposed to be a superhero, and there are not a lot of superheroes who have condoned/assisted in the gang rape of women and children.  Also, so far the show has pretty much folded every time it had the chance to take Oliver to a particularly dark place (which again, I am happy about...I was furious when I thought they were going to have him brainwashed in three weeks, bc he has never been portrayed as either evil or weak-minded...luckily for me it turned out he was faking).  I mean, people bring up early S1 a LOT, but what did he do in early S1 that was really so bad?  If they wanted to go that dark with him they could have had him kill Tommy when Tommy witnessed him kill the guys who kidnapped them.  Oliver killed a bunch of bad guys in S1.  So does pretty much every action movie hero. 

 

On another note, Oliver assassinated at least one person in Hong Kong, the old guy who turned out to be Fyers' handler.  He also tortured a couple guys and (probably) killed them afterwards, which I'd count as assassinations.  That's not to say there won't be more in S4, but once you assassinate one person you're pretty much an assassin.

 

"Honestly i'm expecting Oliver to go a lot darker in the flashbacks, at some point he became a killer, and if something transformed him into that, my money is on Bravta."

 

Oliver has been "a killer" since S1 flashbacks.  He killed AT LEAST one of Fyers' men, probably more, and he killed Fyers.  In S2 flashbacks he killed a bunch of Ivo's men, and Ivo.  He thought he killed Slade.  In S3 flashbacks he killed Fyers' handler, Thea's drug dealer, a couple guys he tortured for Waller, and I think quite a few of that general's men (I didn't watch any episodes bw 9 and 23, so I'm probably missing some).  In terms of his willingness to kill bad guys in present day S1, he's there in FB S3.  All he really needs is more skills and tattoos/scars, as he's there in terms of his mindset.  Re becoming a Bratva captain, we know Anatoly is pretty high up in the hierarchy, and they were fairly close in S2 flashbacks, plus Oliver arguably saved his life then and may save it again.  If Anatoly is a pakhan, which seems likely, saving his life would probably be pretty much enough to make Oliver a captain.

Edited June 3, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[DeathQuaker]

*lurker de-lurks*

 

ETA: I screwed up the quote tags and it won't let me fix it--my replies are for some reason embedded in the quote. Sorry. Newb error.

 

Nice thought... but I'm pretty sure the Jitters girl is the same one he impregnated in the flashbacks of Arrow s2. Believe it might have been the same actress, unless she has a twin too.

 

I agree, she was the BabyMama and I believe played by the same actress. They made a point of her calling her child on her phone after she finished talking to Oliver to drive it home.

 

If she is not Sandra Hawke, but IS a character with a comics background, she could be

 

Bonnie King and her daughter Cissie, both AKA Arrowette. Bonnie in the comics was sort of a Green Arrow fangirl. Now, formally, Cissie King-Jones is not supposed to be Oliver's daughter but rather of a guy codenamed "Bowstring", but a popular fan theory is she is really Ollie's daughter as Bonnie dated Ollie.  Interestingly, IIRC despite her skillset, Cissie was never tied to Team Arrow but was instead a member of Young Justice.

 

 

Which brings me to my really far-fetched speculation of the moment ~ do we think that Mai could be one of the eventual baby OQ MamaDramas? Didn't OQ & Shado have a kid in the comics? I feel like the gotcha of showing Mai in the fb could be more than just having an apartment for the triad to blow up and a way to show FB OQ finally taking a shower. I wouldn't put it past the writers to swap one comic destiny from sister to sister. Imagine the possibilities if they are twins?!?

 

In the comics Shado

was an assassin who raped Oliver. She did get pregnant and gave birth to Robert Queen Jr. (I think this is from the "Longbow Hunters" story.)

 

While it's possible they may decide to make Mei into Robert Jr's mother it would be under very different circumstances than in the comics if it happens as you describe. Although I don't think we've seen the last of Mei--I don't think she would have been introduced as a one-shot for no reason--so something like that could also happen down the line.

 

 

Edited June 3, 2015 by DeathQuaker

[EmeraldArcher]

I agree, she was the BabyMama and I believe played by the same actress. They made a point of her calling her child on her phone after she finished talking to Oliver to drive it

It was definitely the same actress--Adelaide Kane, a CW actress who stars as Mary, Queen of Scots on Reign. She would be a great addition to the cast because she is a fantastic actor who can nail dramatic scenes.

However, I REALLY don't want baby mama and/or baby drama anytime soon. I vote no to any plot that kills my post 3x23 Olicity buzz.

[dtissagirl]

That's not Adelaide Kane, it's Anna Hopkins. She has a regular gig on Defiance, in which I really like her: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1965525/reference

[EmeraldArcher]

That's not Adelaide Kane, it's Anna Hopkins. She has a regular gig on Defiance, in which I really like her: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1965525/reference

Um, I'm so embarrassed--I didn't check the credits or the IMDB pages for those episodes. I was so sure it was Adelaide when I saw her. They look a lot alike and are both beautiful women. (Slinks off in shame)

[tarotx]

I personally think the show needs Oliver's child. Or other non super hero family. Right now only Baby Sara isn't in the saving the world/crime fighting biz....

Edited June 3, 2015 by tarotx