Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[Ceylon5]

As regards the secret identity, I think it's not just a comic book rule - vigilantism is against the law however you interpret it.

The only thing R'as took was Quentin's plausible deniability!

True, but I was under the impression that he'd given up being a vigilante - he just helps the cops catch bad guys now; he doesn't take revenge on them himself.  As far as I know, citizens are allowed to (even should) step in and try to stop a crime being committed if they see one happening.  Although I suppose the disadvantage of being someone whose go-to move is using arrows is that there's really no way to use a pointy arrow to stop someone without actually hurting them quite badly - it's not like punching them in the face.  And I suppose if people know who you are, they're more likely to try to sue you for putting holes in them!

[statsgirl]

Realistically, it's complicated.  He's an ordinary citizen with no special arrest or detainment rights.  (In the city where I live, a couple of years ago the owner of a small grocery store got fed up with a man who kept repeatedly shoplifting and the cops never got there on time.  He tied up the thief and called the cops and the end result was that the store owner got arrested for unlawful imprisonment.)

 

So I wouldn't mind if the new identity stays hidden.  Quentin can know and they can partner up again but letting the public know will cause all kinds of unnecessary problems.

 

 

The only thing R'as took was Quentin's plausible deniability!

 

I think he also took from Oliver his Arrow identity.  Oliver knew who he was when he was The Arrow, he was someone whose purpose was to right his father's wrongs and protect the city and especially those he loves, and if that involves pushing away people and losing his family's company, well that's the cost of keeping them safe.  It was hard, but it was also simple.

 

Now he doesn't have that any more. That's why the road trip is so important for him; now that he doesn't have to focus on saving Starling City, who is Oliver Queen? What does he want his life to be about?  So in the same way the sinking of the Gambit altered Ollie's life, Ra's' taking away that life is forcing Oliver to re-define who and what he is.

 

And it's well done that he's taking Felicity on that voyage since the show spent 3 seasons tying his humanity to her as well as to his family.

 

But everyone saying the suit is done - he's going to be plainclothes Green Arrow? How's that going to work (is pouting because she likes the suit)? Or does everyone mean it'll be all leather, like Thea's?

Tight leather pants. That's my only demand. Everything else is negotiable.

[AyChihuahua]

So, Sara's getting LPd on Arrow, right?  From the trailer for LoT (which has been determined not to be a spoiler by the mods), she's clearly coming out of the LP.  I wonder if Malcolm okays it, if he uses it as a test for Tommy (actual corpse v. Thea, who was alive) depending on CD's availability, or if Nyssa does it behind his back.  Man, I cannot watch LoT, because I hate Ray Palmer, but I will at least have to youtube Caity Lotz's fight scenes.    

[wonderwall]

IDK why I feel like it would undermine Laurel's arc if she isn't involved in Sara's arc in LoT because much of it was hinged on how much she loved Sara and how angry it made Laurel when she got killed. So if Laurel isn't involved with Sara at some point, that would sort of make me question Laurel's love for her sister. So I hope the writers handle this well. Otherwise, wtf?

[BkWurm1]

I don't think that Oliver chose Felicity over being the Arrow. Oliver realized that the Arrow wasn't enough to defeat Ra's (which is part of what Felicity says to Oliver in 3x23 - that both Oliver Queen and the Arrow fought Ra's and lost) and that Oliver needs to become something else. Which is why I think Oliver left with Felicity at the end of the episode, because he wanted to explore more about who that someone else is; not because he chose Felicity over the Arrow. 

 

I think that the Arrow persona is essentially gone, and when Oliver suits up again next season he'll come back as a different incarnation of himself (possibly the Green Arrow). Judging from what Felicity said about Oliver allowing himself to feel something and that being the key to defeating Ra's, I think that Oliver's new persona will essentially combine Oliver and the Arrow (heart + vigilantism). 

Yes to this whole post, pretty much everything I was planning to type up with one slight change.  Although the Arrow was gone and he couldn't choose it, he also did say he wouldn't want it if he could and that he chooses Felicity.  I think in that moment he CHOSE to let the OLD Arrow person go for good, which means anything that comes next will be something new and that also in a sense, he really did choose Felicity over the arrow.   Lack of capitalization intentional.  The first arrow persona is a lesser version of what will come next. 

 

I think they could still have there be some rocky moments as Oliver learns exactly how to achieve a proper balance in his life without it resorting to an all or nothing choice ever again.  Honestly, the writers would have to twist themselves up in knots to create reasonable reasons why he as the new and improved Arrow creates issues in a relationship. 

 

Felicity already has a handle on him going out and risking his life - so no begging him to stop what he's doing.  She isn't going to be mad at him for the hero stuff interfering with life because when he has to go, so does she so it's not like he's going to be ditching her or not showing up for things without her being all in on the reasons.  She's not going to question or begrudge the time he spends with his sister or Diggle because she loves them too and after last year with the ridiculous triangle, they're not going to have her get jealous of Laurel.  Felicity is secure in her contribution to the team. 

 

So all the typical troupes they throw up between the superhero and his non-powered lady love are already gone. 

 

That encourages me a lot. 

 

I do think they might try to use her responsibilities to Palmer Tech as a wedge but it stretches credulity that Felicity who didn't blink about quitting a dream VP position would ever chose running a company over watching over the city and specifically Oliver. 

[Starfish35]

IDK why I feel like it would undermine Laurel's arc if she isn't involved in Sara's arc in LoT because much of it was hinged on how much she loved Sara and how angry it made Laurel when she got killed. So if Laurel isn't involved with Sara at some point, that would sort of make me question Laurel's love for her sister. So I hope the writers handle this well. Otherwise, wtf?

I think it would undermine Laurel if she isn't involved, just like it did in season two when she didn't find out about Sara being alive until later on. I hope they don't do that. No more Lance family secrets, please. When Sara is resurrected, I hope Laurel and Quentin find out about it pretty quickly.

Honestly though, they're probably going to handle this the worst possible way for maximum draaaaama and I'm going to be really pissed off. It seems like almost everything I hoped for on Arrow this last season turned out to be a disappointment, so I'm trying not to get my hopes up too much that this will be handled well.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Starfish35

[BkWurm1]

But everyone saying the suit is done - he's going to be plainclothes Green Arrow? How's that going to work (is pouting because she likes the suit)? Or does everyone mean it'll be all leather, like Thea's?

 

I would actually love if they held off a bit before they put Oliver back in his green leathers but given the need to set up the LoT and the past history of this show which taught us every storyline is rush, rush, I expect he'll be back in costume by the end of the first episode.  

 

Thea is obviously an excellent tailor so I'm sure she'll have a suit ready and waiting for him.

 

I don't think that Oliver could have reasonably donned the suit again so soon after Roy was outed since it would immediately undermine Roy's credibility, but when the show comes back it will have been at least six months.  It's not as unreasonable to think someone might decide to don the old color in honor of the past guy.  It's trickier if anyone can point to Oliver Queen not being in town those same six months that there was no Arrow but in the end I think people will want to believe in his innocence - plausible deniability - because they need their top guy back. 

 

As for the name, while the team will be calling Thea Speedy, the general public likely would end up thinking of her as the Red Arrow (as they probably did Roy)  thus allowing for them to realistically distinguish between her and the next dude in verdant leathers as the Green Arrow.  They wouldn't fall back to the arrow as a singular title because that was that other guy. 

Edited May 17, 2015 by BkWurm1

[arjumand]

I would actually love if they held off a bit before they put Oliver back in his green leathers but given the need to set up the LoT and the past history of this show which taught us every storyline is rush, rush, I expect he'll be back in costume by the end of the first episode.  

 

Thea is obviously an excellent tailor so I'm sure she'll have a suit ready and waiting for him.

 

I don't think that Oliver could have reasonably donned the suit again so soon after Roy was outed since it would immediately undermine Roy's credibility, but when the show comes back it will have been at least six months.  It's not as unreasonable to think someone might decide to don the old color in honor of the past guy.  It's trickier if anyone can point to Oliver Queen not being in town those same six months that there was no Arrow but in the end I think people will want to believe in his innocence - plausible deniability - because they need their top guy back. 

 

As for the name, while the team will be calling Thea Speedy, the general public likely would end up thinking of her as the Red Arrow (as they probably did Roy)  thus allowing for them to realistically distinguish between her and the next dude in verdant leathers as the Green Arrow.  They wouldn't fall back to the arrow as a singular title because that was that other guy. 

 

Hey, why aren't you writing for the show? I like this, a lot. I especially like the idea (and I put it in something I wrote) that everyone who matters knows that Oliver is the guy in the suit, but they feel they just have to deal with it, because they need him so badly. He does the things they can't because they're restrained by the law, so they put up with it.

And as regards the general public, they don't spend every minute of every day wondering about crazy people who put on masks - they have their own shit to deal with, like work, bills, health, etc.

 

Changing the subject, I don't know if I want Felicity as the new owner of whatever they've decided to call the company this week. I really didn't like that aspect of the Palmer storyline - the whole giving her stuff and then he gives her the company? Ugh. Unfortunate implications ahoy. And both Felicity and her mum seem to pride themselves that they worked really hard for everything she's achieved - she doesn't seem the type to just accept something like that.

[WaitandHope]

I love Foreverevolving's theory in the spoiler discussion that next season's flashback involves Oliver learning to fly at Ferris Air in Coast City. I think that makes a ton of sense - they've essentially been teasing Coast City and Ferris Air on the Flash and Arrow for their entire runs. I really did want Bratva, but maybe they are saving that for Season 5 FB and this has the potential to be an Easter Egg bonanza.

BTW, I don't think they will introduce Hal in any meaningful way but I do think he is in the long-term plan if Arrow goes over 5 seasons or maybe these EPs plans when Arrow finishes up its run.

Edited May 17, 2015 by WaitandHope

[KirkB]

While flat out giving her the company IS a bit extravagant it fits with Palmer's sort of flaky personality, and it's not like Felicity hasn't been doing anything with the company these past few months. Hell, she was practically running it anyway while Ray was wrapped up in building his suit. And even before he went boom Ray made it seem like he was more interested in being a superhero than a CEO so he probably needs someone else to run it and Felicity it the most capable person of either doing it herself or else figuring out who would be best suited. 

[statsgirl]

I'm sure the Palmer companies are wide and dispersed, otherwise he wouldn't have had the money for his helicopter much less to take over QC. So unless I hear otherwise, Ray gave Felicity only the Starling City branch aka the old QC.  He's still got lots more he's responsible for.  I'd like to think that it's a gesture for her help in creating the ATOM suit, which is what he bought the company for in the first place. Without her, first getting the info from the destroyed hard drive and then all the help in making it work, he woudn't be The Atom.

 

Oliver took over QC after his mother died with less business experience than Felicity had (cuz he was on an island while she was working and he had flunked out of 4 universities) but the fandom accepted it.  And as KirkB said, Felicity was running PT while Ray was isolating himself working on his suit for weeks at a time. 

 

A part of me wonders that if Felicity were a guy instead of a woman, would her lack of an MBA be such a problem? 

[lemotomato]

A part of me wonders that if Felicity were a guy instead of a woman, would her lack of an MBA be such a problem? 

No one had a problem with Moira taking over as CEO when Walter disappeared/quit, and we don't know what her qualifications were. I don't think it's so much that Felicity's a woman, but that it's trendy in fandom right now to trash her.

[rainydawn]

I fear characters like Sara and Ray will get the focus again, in the first half of the season, to launch/explain the new spin off at the expense of characters and relationships that we already have but have been neglected.

[DrSpaceman10]

Bringing Sara back to life is a huge story that pretty much affects everybody on Arrow, and it'll probably take a while to tell. I feel that Diggle and Felicity have been (in MG's words) team players for the first three seasons and S4 should be their reward, they've more than earned it. Ray and Sara have both already had big arcs. It seems like every season we're told that Diggle/Felicity's arcs have been "pushed off" because there wasn't any room for them, but mostly it just seems like the EPs aren't as interested in telling non-costumed character's stories. 

[Happy Harpy]

I fear characters like Sara and Ray will get the focus again, in the first half of the season, to launch/explain the new spin off at the expense of characters and relationships that we already have but have been neglected.

I would love to see Sara again. Even though even she isn't enough to make me watch the masked heroes/superpowers galore that the spin-off-off promises to be, she's for me the only Canary that would ever be right on Arrow and a real, organic part of the Arrow universe. I would love to see her help Diggle in his quest for HIVE, renew her friendship with Felicity, reassure Oliver with his choices (because somehow, I know he's going to need it) bond with Thea about being revived, revisit their S2-B past with guest-star Roy, kick Malcolm's ass and make her beloved Heir to the Demon or Demon or whatever is the LoA bigshot, and adopt kittens and have a real fucking wedding with said beloved Nyssa. And I know they can do all this without taking off the focus from the alleged "heart of the show", because they did that in S2-A. 

But I'm afraid that once again, Arrow isn't going to be about Arrow but all about the spin-off, and the spin-off-off, and Sara will bond with Fifty Shades of Ray now with 50% more Gary Stu, and even worse, she will be back mostly to comfort and approve of Laurel in her undeserved BC role in scenes more cringe-inducing than the Cheshire Cat smile jacket handing. 

 

Oh, and Ray being possibly dead is a cliffhanger? I didn't notice, I was too gleeful watching the "Palmer Technology" sign being blown up. I'd say I wouldn't care if Ray would live or die but it annoys me that he can't be dead or alive on that show I won't watch instead of possibly polluting another season of Arrow again. 

Edited May 17, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[wonderwall]

I hope that Laurel's main arc next season has to do with Sara and that it's a really minimal role so Diggle and Felicity can get some focus next season. Laurel as a background character is the biggest hope I have.

[Starfish35]

I do wonder what Laurel's story is going to be next season. Let's see.

We know what Diggle's is going to be (HIVE) and Felicity's (her father, presumably connected to HIVE). Thea's...we don't know much except that they will apparently be dealing with fallout from the LP resurrection. And she'll be Speedy. Oliver....again, don't know much. He'll likely be getting a new suit and taking up the Green Arrow identity. Maybe Bratva in flashbacks? JB is apparently still a regular, or at least they haven't announced him being dropped to recurring, so I wonder what they have planned for Malcolm next year. And as far as Laurel goes, all we have is her "taking her rightful place on Team Arrow", whatever that means. Sara's resurrection and the fall out from that could be a major storyline for both her and Quentin, at least for the first part of the season, but only if they're not kept out of the loop on it.

[jay741982]

MG said this year was focus on Laurel and Ray and next season is Felicity and Dig getting the focus. Combine this with DR saying the upcoming season is OG Team Arrow focus I have hope that Oliver Felicity and Diggle get their rightful focus again

[Nagevs]

I do wonder what Laurel's story is going to be next season. 

 

I feel pretty sure she'll be getting a love interest, it's been a while...

[Guest]

You know, my biggest hope for s4 is that it's Diggle who needs Felicity and Oliver to come home. Maybe he still won't have forgiven Oliver enough to ask them himself, but I'd really love it if Thea maybe called them and said that Diggle had found out something to do with H.I.V.E. and his brother and could really do with their help. I would LOVE that so much. 

 

I'm also hoping that Oliver is Diggle and Felicity's 'rock' in s4. They've been so supportive and inspiring to him for three seasons, I'd like the tables to turn a bit. I think both Diggle and Felicity (hopefully) will be going through some stuff this year and it's time that Oliver stepped up to be the good friend and boyfriend. 

 

I want Diggle to get lots of focus and I want Felicity to have her own story that doesn't revolve around being a love interest. And I really hope they continue to build on Thea and Oliver's relationship. I think that's probably one of the only things they got right in s3 and I hope we see more of it.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Guest

[DrSpaceman10]

I feel pretty sure she'll be getting a love interest, it's been a while...

 

Hopefully it's someone they chemistry test her with first. 

[kismet]

Sara's resurrection being a big part of s4a does not bother me as it really is integral to all of the characters. So it makes sense and feels organic.

 

I have no need for anymore Ray to be set-up on Arrow beyond finding him alive & likely very small. That to me is enough. Although I feel like the only reason they had him sign her over the company in s3b without any explanation is that it was needed to set-up her return to SC (would prefer Dig, but don't think it'll happen). Or at least have her be directly involved with trying to find him after his disappearance (presumed death). Otherwise, it was just a waste of script space, because they could have just held off until s4 and most would not be questioning his decision. People question it now because he gave no rationale.

 

I do hope if they spend a significant time setting up LoT, then that is Oliver's prime plot arc for s4a. Maybe he can be the original floater before passing it on to the planned floater. It would be fitting that since his show helped set all these shows in motion, that his character get some credit for helping start this new team/show. It also would give him something to do. I really don't want to see him jump right back into fighting SC crime. As much as I want him to be a supportive friend & BF, I can't see Diggle calling him for help so soon into season. I hate that there is tension in that bromance, but I think it might need to last a few episodes. Dig does not seem like someone that forgives easily. And if Felicity is caught in some type of business trouble because of RP, then I want her to fight her way out of it herself because she is smart, strong & talented on her own. He can be a sounding board or supportive presence, but I want her to fight her own battle on this one & not just have him come in & rescue her.

 

ETA - after wonderwall's post  wanted to clarify when I said big for Sara's resurrection, I meant like 2.5 to 3.5 eps tops (.5 to resurrect in end of ep, 1-2 for reaction from TA/Lances (esp. QL) & to reestablish her friendship with TA (esp. Felicity & Thea); 1 to have closure with Nyssa/confront MM. I only need 1-2 at most on Ray. I think Diggle/Hive/DD should be the focus as well, but we got like 20 episodes to play that arc out. Felicity's Dad is trickier to judge as we know nothing about him.

Edited May 18, 2015 by kismet

[wonderwall]

I HOPE Sara's resurrection isn't a big part of season 4, I want it to be like Barry's arc where he has an episode or two dedicated to him and in the end he gets hit by a lightning bolt. I'm so god damn tired of the writers focusing on the Lances, I want Diggle FOR ONCE to get the focus, I want Felicity FOR ONCE to get an arc of her own and no one else's. There are other characters who deserve the attention. Sara, nor any of the other Lance's are one of them. 

Edited May 18, 2015 by wonderwall

[Sunshine]

Assuming Damien Darhk & HIVE are the big bad(s)of S4 you have at least 4 character tie-ins. Darhk was established as having lost the Ra's position to the guy Oliver defeated and having taken waters from the Lazarus Pit.

Malcolm Merlyn: Reigning Ra's Al Ghul

Oliver Queen: Defeated Ra's Al Ghul and handed the position to Malcolm Merlyn

Diggle: His brother Andy's death was ordered by HIVE

Felcity: Her dad may be involved with HIVE

I hope Diggle & Felicity get more story than Malcolm.

[Genki]

I wonder why DD was in Starling City in the first place.

I also wonder if he will be pissed at Team Arrow for trying to capture him for a trade with Ra's.

[Password]

I HOPE Sara's resurrection isn't a big part of season 4, I want it to be like Barry's arc where he has an episode or two dedicated to him and in the end he gets hit by a lightning bolt. I'm so... tired of the writers focusing on the Lances, I want Diggle FOR ONCE to get the focus, I want Felicity FOR ONCE to get an arc of her own and no one else's. There are other characters who deserve the attention. Sara, nor any of the other Lance's are one of them.

This. So much this.

[arjumand]

Hopefully it's someone they chemistry test her with first. 

So much yes to this. Though I'd really like for her to stay on her own - I'm tired of women's storylines being all about who they're banging.

But if we have to have Laurel in a relationship, for fuck's sake film a few test reels beforehand to see if she clicks with them.

 

She actually had great chemistry with Nyssa, but that would have been super weird, what with Nyssa's relationship with Sara.

[kismet]

I agree that I hate that story lines for woman need to revolve around LI. I think it is possible to get her a storyline that does not revolve around a LI. It has to be more than just an origin or story that revolves around just her. Most of her storylines in s2&3 have been all about her & that makes her less of an appealing character. Now that she is BC, she needs to be doing more than just having her own storylines. She needs to be helping the community with her own mission to save some group. I still sorta hope that they will do some type of Bratva sex trafficking ring that can be in present & FB that she can be helping to bring down. That would give her something professionally that could also align with her BC work & OQ's plotline. But if they are waiting to do Bratva/Russia until s5 then that won't be an option.

 

I could see her LI as being part of the bigger HIVE picture. Perhaps using her for info. A pseudo double agent, or perhaps a bad guy trying to turn good. But then I feel bad because on one hand I am giving her a LI & hopefully happiness, but then ripping it away when the truth is revealed. So hard, but if her LI is uninvolved in the plot then it just seems like a useless character. And the foundry is packed enough that we don't need another LI trying to join TA. Maybe the new mayor or gov't ally? IDK, the more I think about it the harder it becomes for me to figure out who the best LI for her would be. Roy, Ray & Tommy were such good options. But we lost Roy to Thea (which Im good with) & contract negotions. Tommy is dead, altho he would have been best option. And Ray was used for FS & now has the spin-off, so it wouldn't have mattered anyway (even though I think he might have worked better romantically for LL over FS)

[statsgirl]

EBR suggested that Oliver and Felicity should come back for Thea, and I like that idea because Thea is so important to Oliver.  I don't want it to be because Dgigle gets in over his head because I want the Diggle/Oliver friction to play out on its own (anticipating some good scenes between the two of them) rather than Diggle dropping his anger because he needs Oliver.

 

And I want Felicity to be called back for Ray's explosion after they're already heading home because while I want Felicity to have her own reason for returning, I don't want the trip cut short because of her.  Oliver also needs to check if Malcolm kept his part of the bargain and has LP'd Sara (I'm assuming Oliver's parting words to Malcolm were about that).  And I want Nyssa involved in Sara's return story, as well as Laurel and Quentin.  Does she decide to stay with the LoA to fight Malcolm, or will she join Sara and Laurel in whatever city Sara ends up in to each french fries dipped in milkshakes?

 

I'm not looking forward to Laurel having a permantent place on Team Arrow now because I don't see how she will fit in as Roy did especially with Roy and the Atom off the team now.  It's too bad J.R.Ramirez got another job because I think that would have been a good way of .keeping her the Black Canary vigilante while not taking over Team Arrow.  So maybe they can re-do the set-up (this show is good at repeating itself) with Laurel being pulled into the investigation of a drug trafficking/people trafficking ring by a guy who can be recurring and her new love interest.  I feel like Felicity got so much of Oliver at the end of this season, I want Laurel fans to get something too beyond the canary cry.

 

I want the set-up to HIVE in 4A but more of it devoted to setting up the LoT and the big HIVE push to be in 4B.

 

 

nd Ray was used for FS & now has the spin-off, so it wouldn't have mattered anyway (even though I think he might have worked better romantically for LL over FS)

I think story-wise he might have worked as a love interest for Laurel because the friendship chemistry worked better with Felicity than as a romantic partner but I don't know that BR and KC would have kit it off in terms of romantic chemistry and the purpose of Ray's plots was to get that spin-off going.

Edited May 18, 2015 by statsgirl

[KenyaJ]

A part of me wonders that if Felicity were a guy instead of a woman, would her lack of an MBA be such a problem? 

 

Oh, I'm sure all the people making a fuss about it made an equally big fuss about college-dropout Oliver being CEO of QC. I'm sure of it.

[wonderwall]

Oh, I'm sure all the people making a fuss about it made an equally big fuss about college-dropout Oliver being CEO of QC. I'm sure of it.

It's a good thing you're not a betting woman ;) 

 

I honestly didn't see anyone side-eye Oliver being the CEO of QC even when it showed he lacked interest in it, signed the company over to Isobel, or try to win the company back afterwards...

 

Apparently it's more believable for Oliver, a man who's dropped out of 4 colleges, to run a company than a woman who graduated (probably with honors) from MIT and is a certified genius...

 

I think it all boils down to whether or not they like the character. People were okay with Ray flying the suit perfectly for the first time, but they weren't okay with Felicity flying the suit for the first time? Okay. 

Edited May 18, 2015 by wonderwall

[AyChihuahua]

 

Oliver also needs to check if Malcolm kept his part of the bargain and has LP'd Sara (I'm assuming Oliver's parting words to Malcolm were about that). 

I was thinking it was more of a general "that depends on whether you do good or evil with your newfound power" type of comment.  I'll be curious to see whether Malcolm is in on LPing her...he'd have to guess that she'd be VERY unhappy with him, but Nyssa might be less unhappy, so maybe he'd consider it a wash.  Whatever, LPing her will probably end up being part of some completely convoluted BS plot that has like ten steps that do not lead from one to the next, but at least Sara will end up alive at the end instead of dead on a dumpster.   (Also, from the LoT preview, she looks to be not evil/not insane.) 

 

Ooh, is it confirmed that she's this universe's Sara Lance?  Theapplefour must be losing her mind if yes! 

[Starfish35]

It's confirmed that she's our Sara.

Yeah, I took that comment the same way, basically, that it would depend on what Malcolm did with his new power, not anything to do with Sara. Not that I think that interpretation is wrong necessarily - it's just not how I took it when I was watching.

[AyChihuahua]

It's confirmed that she's our Sara.

Ha, love it!  I love Sara, PLUS I've had a couple online scraps with applefour, so HA!

 

Btw, someone asked awhile ago whether Guggie has ever flat-out lied, and now we can say the answer is yes.  He said that Ra's is until death, but Oliver just handed it over to Malcolm, and he said Starling would not be under threat again, when of course it was. 

 

As an aside, he said there were two deaths, but only one would stick.  Shrieve and Ra's, but both seem pretty dead to me, or was he thinking Ra's and Ray, with Ray seemingly dead but just shrunk, and forgetting Shrieve?

Edited May 18, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[wonderwall]

I watched the trailer for LoT and even on a different show Sara puts Laurel to shame regarding the fight sequences. That made me sad that the writers weren't creative enough to not kill her off and keep her on the show. Caity is so natural when it comes to fight sequences that I don't think she requires a stunt double most of the time unlike Katie. It's not a dig at Katie, but during a lot of her fight sequences in NP it was glaringly obvious that it was the stunt double fighting and not Katie. Some people just don't have a knack for this kind of stuff like Caity does. I know I don't lmao, I'd probably look ridiculous.

[Genki]

EBR suggested that Oliver and Felicity should come back for Thea, and I like that idea because Thea is so important to Oliver.  I don't want it to be because Dgigle gets in over his head because I want the Diggle/Oliver friction to play out on its own (anticipating some good scenes between the two of them) rather than Diggle dropping his anger because he needs Oliver.

 

And I want Felicity to be called back for Ray's explosion after they're already heading home because while I want Felicity to have her own reason for returning, I don't want the trip cut short because of her.  Oliver also needs to check if Malcolm kept his part of the bargain and has LP'd Sara (I'm assuming Oliver's parting words to Malcolm were about that).  And I want Nyssa involved in Sara's return story, as well as Laurel and Quentin.  Does she decide to stay with the LoA to fight Malcolm, or will she join Sara and Laurel in whatever city Sara ends up in to each french fries dipped in milkshakes?

 

I don't think I want Oliver to come back because of Thea, so much of the season was driven by Oliver doing "any" to save Thea and I don't want her to become a point of friction between them. And as much as I love Oliver you know he will just come back and start bossing her around, it's built into the sibling code somewhere.

 

I don't mind if their return is based on the explosion at PT and her getting the company. Or Brava infiltrating Starling City or even Sara's return.

 

I don't mind if the H.I.V.E. storyline is used to repair Diggle & Oliver's friendship. It would be a call back to Season 1 when Oliver let Diggle down by helping Laurel instead of Diggle get Deadshot.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Genki

[Sakura12]

I think that LOT trailer was all Caity. You can see her face in a lot of those shots especially this one.

 

If we ever do see Laurel and Sara fighting together it will Caity and a stunt double which might be hard to film. It'll be hard to show one then play hide the stunt double with the other. 

[BkWurm1]

I wonder why DD was in Starling City in the first place.

I also wonder if he will be pissed at Team Arrow for trying to capture him for a trade with Ra's.

I can't help but come back to that statement that came from the Chief of Police.  How did he know that the two dudes having a sword fight on the dam were the ones responsible for the biological weapons attack?  AND rather than capturing or arresting either, the orders was let them fight to the death and then take out the winner.  That's an extremely odd directive from a law enforcement stand point.  What about capturing one or both and getting intel on how to stop the attack?

 

I really wouldn't be surprised if DD does have the Chief of Police in his pocket. The city has shown a penchant for corruption and lawlessness that Oliver's three years as Arrow only put a dent in.  It wouldn't surprise me if DD has had his hands in Starling City the whole time and only now after three years of set backs is giving the issues his personal attention (since the flunkies were not successful) 

 

I don't think DD would be pissed that the Team tried to capture him for trade.  I think he would agree with the notion of the plan but think them all terribly naïve to think he could be caught with his guard down.  He's been very successful in evading the same league Oliver and Co were certain they could never hide from for long.  This guy is not going to be upset by something so insignificant as an attempt on his life.

 

I also tend to think we will see the return of DD stand in that was there to greet the team (before getting shot by Ra's people)  I think DD purposely left his people behind to see what would come out of the woodwork and Oliver likely was a surprise.  I think DD will likely revive his spokesman if for no other reason than to get a first hand impression of those that came after him  (that and good help is so hard to find - no one wants to start the training process all over again).

[Genki]

I dug DD's "Right Hand Man" and the actor is well known so I hope he returns.

 

I don't mind if DD let's TA off for the attempted trade, just wondering if he will hold a grudge. I think DD has been around Starling for a long time, Ra's already dropped hints about his influnce (The Argus List from Corto Maltese, the Earthquake machine prototype, etc) I wonder if he was the one that funded the Count in Season 2, I always assumed it was Slade but now I'm wondering.

 

Definitely would't be surprised if he had the Police Chief in his pocket. That could be a good way to get Lance back to allying with Team Arrow. You could even tie in Laurel I guess if you make the both the DA's office and the SC Police corrupt and Lance enlisting Team Arrow to help him fight it. 

[statsgirl]

I also thought that Slade funded the Count. But who funded Slade?  I can see DD thinking that setting Slade up in Starling City would be perfect to destabilize it some more.

 

 

Btw, someone asked awhile ago whether Guggie has ever flat-out lied, and now we can say the answer is yes.  He said that Ra's is until death, but Oliver just handed it over to Malcolm, and he said Starling would not be under threat again, when of course it was. 

 

As an aside, he said there were two deaths, but only one would stick.  Shrieve and Ra's, but both seem pretty dead to me, or was he thinking Ra's and Ray, with Ray seemingly dead but just shrunk, and forgetting Shrieve?

At a guess, MG was thinking of Ra's and Ray, and Shrieve didn't count for him because it was in the flashbacks..

 

Maybe I'm still flying too high with the way the season ended because they actually managed to save Olicity, turned Thea into a sidekick and actually made good on their Felicity gets to choose between two men, but I can fanwank it as Oliver not being Ra's until death because while he took the ring from the current Ra's (we need to know his real name because it gets too confusing), he didn't actually rule as Ra's. It was Malcolm who was the first to make the LoA bow to him.

 

The more difficult question is Does Malcolm have to destroy his city?  Or does his city thinking he's EVUL and refusing to let him back count?

[AyChihuahua]

I mean, who's going to make Malcolm destroy his city?  I really think there are two ways to becoming Ra's...kill the old Ra's or be official Heir.  League bylaws don't apply if you kill the old Ra's, if for no other reason than that there's no one to make the new Ra's do anything he doesn't want to.  So Malcolm is undisputed bossman of the League, so no one can make him destroy his hometown.

 

Re being Ra's until you die, it's probably again a who's-gonna-make-me scenario.  There's no one to MAKE Oliver be Ra's, so the normal rules don't apply.  I still think Guggie's a liar, though.  

 

I'm putting down money now that the League will interrupt Oliver and Felicity's eventual wedding, claiming he's married to Nyssa.  Or maybe DD, if he wants Felicity for some reason.   

Edited May 19, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

Damien Darhk funding Ct. Vertigo would be interesting because they never told us who was funding him, even though it was implied to be Slade. But if they want to confirm it was DD, I'm ok with that.

 

I want Slade to have funded his own revengenda. I think it would further undermine his story if it was just about DD all the time. His motivations were ruined enough when they decided to make it all about Shado. At least have the guy be able to fund his own mission.

 

It's a nice idea that everything is interconnected. But at some point, it just needs to separate villains. Otherwise it becomes a house of cards with everything having the potential to crash upon itself if the biggest bad is not worthy. Some interconnection is fine. But if everything links back to DD, then what was the points of the other big bads? I mean Ras was supposed to be so "bad" & look how that turned out? The myth & the legend was more intimidating than the man. The only way I could see it working that everything is linked to the DD as the biggest bad is if they do not reveal who he is for a few seasons. Then they could establish him as this great arch-enemy for OQ & team. Although, I feel like that is their great masterplan with MM. The penultimate showdown of the series will be between OQ & MM whenever SA decides to leave the show.

Edited May 19, 2015 by kismet

[wonderwall]

Okay I have a question, how many of you want Damien Darhk to be Felicity's father and how many of you don't? 

 

On the one hand I want him to be her father so it ties Felicity to the central plot next season, on the other hand I don't want Felicity's father to be the same age as Ra's... 

 

I guess I'm cool with her father being Damien's right hand man, but only if he has a big role in season 4. 

[calliope1975]

Okay I have a question, how many of you want Damien Darhk to be Felicity's father and how many of you don't? 

 

It all depends on how it's written for me. I don't have any problem with DD being her father; I just want a coherent, logical story line. I think there are plenty of ways it could be approached. Her father could be a straight up villain, anti-hero, or regular, normal citizen. I doubt they'll go for the last option there, though, as contrived angst seems to be the forte. I already have Sebastian Roche' as her father just because I like the looks of that, but I'm open. I just hope DD and whomever Felicity's father is has better casting than Ra's. 

[DrSpaceman10]

I want Felicity to have an arc that lasts more than one episode, so if that means Felicity's dad is DD then that's fine by me.

[Starfish35]

I don't want him to be. I really don't want Felicity's father to be a supervillain. I'm sure he'll be involved with HIVE somehow, but I don't want him to be Dahrk. And I don't think he will be. I have a seriously hard time believing that Ra's mortal enemy took a few years out of his life to have a family with a Vegas waitress.

I think Felicity's father will be a known comic character, but I'll be surprised if it's Dahrk.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Starfish35

[wonderwall]

I think Felicity's father will be a known comic character, but I'll be surprised if it's Dahrk.

 

I honestly don't know if it's him at this point, but with the way DR speaks of Felicity's father with the whole Mic dropping thing, it makes it seem as though Felicity's father is a huge comic book villain/character or just really has an impressive rap sheet

[statsgirl]

I want Felicity's father to be a major comic book character but I don't want him to be DD because Darhk is just too evil.  I can take gray, Moira was gray and I get her motivations, but DD seems to be pure evil, worse than Slade or Ra's, and I don't want that for Felicity.

 

 

I want Slade to have funded his own revengenda. I think it would further undermine his story if it was just about DD all the time. His motivations were ruined enough when they decided to make it all about Shado. At least have the guy be able to fund his own mission.

But how could Slade come up with that much money so fast? Would you be okay with Slade seeking out DD and asking him to finance an Oliver take-down?

[doesntworkonwood]

I don't mind what Felicity's dad is, whether that be a civilian or villain. I'm leaning more toward a HIVE member, because DR seems to know a bit about him. 

 

As long as the story is about Felicity, I'm completely happy. That might be a bit difficult if he's the main villain though, but if he's a villain of the week (or just generally only there for an episode and then forgotten about) I'll be a bit miffed that we didn't get to have anything besides one episodes focus on Felicity. That's why I'm hoping for HIVE, so there's a high chance of him being recurring and it will tie Diggle and Felicity together so we could hopefully get more scenes of the both of them. 

 

I am fairly worried that the only part of that storyline that has anything to do with Felicity will be Felicity revealing he's her father. And then after that it's all just about her dad, and not really Felicity. 

[tv echo]

I fear that the EPs will break up Oliver and Felicity next season, and that the reason will have something to do with her father.  After everything that's happened this past season (and the previous two seasons' build-up), it will be difficult for them to come up with a believable, organic reason to break them up, but who knows with these EPs?  When Oliver thought he was dying in 3x09, his last thought was of Felicity.  By 3x20, he had already planned his suicide mission to take down Ra's with the bioweapon in the plane.  So when he had sex with Felicity, it was the last sex he expected to have in his life.  Knowing his suicidal plan also explains why he didn't get mad at her for drugging him - he understood her desperation and also didn't want their 'final' parting to be in anger.  Knowing his suicidal plan also gives added poignancy to his good-bye scene when he says to her, "Let's not say good-bye this time."  In 3x23, both Oliver and Felicity left everything and everyone behind to go off together, both to help him discover who he is now and finally to spend some quality time together as a couple.  Against all of that, for them to break up over a misunderstanding or argument or conflicted loyalties would require a major plot contrivance.  However, these EPs are the masters of major plot contrivances.

 

Despite the EPs' promise of a lighter season, I wonder if next season will be Felicity's turn to go dark.  For example, if her father is a major HIVE villain with super smarts, perhaps he attempts to corrupt her with the lure of high-tech equipment and advanced knowledge, while fooling her with a pretense of being a good guy trapped in a bad situation.

Edited May 19, 2015 by tv echo