Spoilers and Speculation: Clink Boom and Cheese Fondue

[ulkis]

Pretty much. I mean, I could picture Nik turning out shady, but they never showed me hoooooow.[/whiny]

[Tiger]

I just worry that this story is going to damage Liz beyond repair and she'll end up going the way of Tony Jones - torn down, but never built up again.

 

I'm hoping for some sort of an "out" that will preserve Liz's character - like have her pull off a mask a la FonDuke and turns out she's been Faith Roscoe all this time and the real Liz has been held prisoner with Robin ever since Jake came back to town or something.  Or Helena put a chip in her head to make her obsessed with Jake.  Something, anything...

Liz having been Faith this whole time would be awesome. It could be retconned as Faith's revenge on Ric & Jasus.

Except I do not want yet another wimmins held prisoner. Maybe Liz could be in Africa with her parents and think that Cam & Aiden are safe with Audrey, and somehow Faith intercepted all of the letters or messages Liz left for people telling them she was going to Africa.

[Badsamaritan]

I get that Liz fans don't want her character ruined but for me, a somewhat newer viewer who has watched clips, I don't really see this as OOC.

And honestly, if we're gonna treat her as OOC then there are other characters who are also OOC, so why should only Liz get to skate? I keep hearing 'Carly wouldn't have given Franco the time of day' or 'Anna wouldn't just leave Robin out there alone' or 'Patrick would know there's something wrong with Robin' etc, etc. So if other characters aren't getting a course correction then both Nik and Liz should put on their big boy and girl panties and take that L.

[LeftPhalange]

I get that Liz fans don't want her character ruined but for me, a somewhat newer viewer who has watched clips, I don't really see this as OOC.

And honestly, if we're gonna treat her as OOC then there are other characters who are also OOC, so why should only Liz get to skate? I keep hearing 'Carly wouldn't have given Franco the time of day' or 'Anna wouldn't just leave Robin out there alone' or 'Patrick would know there's something wrong with Robin' etc, etc. So if other characters aren't getting a course correction then both Nik and Liz should put on their big boy and girl panties and take that L.

 

Agreed. If Liez should get a pass because her behavior is supposedly OCC then so should every other character that existed before Ron took over. He fucked over practically all of them.

Edited August 24, 2015 by LeftPhalange

[Oracle42]

Sam and Ric survived the SoS. And we got lucky because RC won't be writing Liz so she might get an actual redemption instead of a tumor or Reasons! excuse

[Ambrosefolly]

I am taking my response to LeftPhalange to the Liz thread.

[Bawoman]

I honestly can't see Nik losing out all that much, post reveal. He has no fucks to give. Sure, he may have the grace to seem slightly conflicted (and that's a huge maybe) once Sam and Alexis get through with him, but at this point, I don't think it will really matter to him. Most of the town already hates him, and he almost seems to like it that way. His only weak spot is Spencer. I don't think he even cares all that much about Liz, even. I think  Hayden is the one to properly kick him off his high horse and do some real damage to him and  finally make him react. Based on Dillon's cryptic remarks to him last Friday, I can see it happening.

 

Also, I think they will draw out every possible reveal for as long as possible. I can see Jake's identity, and Nik's part in it, revealed during Nov. sweeps, but Liz's part in it will probably come some time afterwards, as a way to lessen the blow on the character. If Liz isn't married, or living with Jakeson when her part of the cover up is revealed, she doesn't come out smelling quite as bad as if she was.

[ulkis]

I get that Liz fans don't want her character ruined but for me, a somewhat newer viewer who has watched clips, I don't really see this as OOC.

And honestly, if we're gonna treat her as OOC then there are other characters who are also OOC, so why should only Liz get to skate? I keep hearing 'Carly wouldn't have given Franco the time of day' or 'Anna wouldn't just leave Robin out there alone' or 'Patrick would know there's something wrong with Robin' etc, etc. So if other characters aren't getting a course correction then both Nik and Liz should put on their big boy and girl panties and take that L.

Carly did get a course correction though.

And yeah, most people agree that is out of character for Patrick and Anna, but it's not the same as what's going on with Liz and Nik. Most people agree without Robin on-screen there's not much to be done there. At least, from what I can tell.

I agree that Liz and Nik should get some fall out though.

Agreed. If Liez should get a pass because her behavior is supposedly OCC then so should every other character that existed before Ron took over. He fucked over practically all of them.

They should!

[Reo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to show ID (as in birth certificate, license, passport, etc) to get a marriage license?  Where does Jakeson plan on getting his?  Do amnesia victims get a new SSN, driver's license, etc issued automatically?

 

Starting over again when you don't know who you are seems like it could be a real challenge, except on GH.

[HeatLifer]

I get that Liz fans don't want her character ruined but for me, a somewhat newer viewer who has watched clips, I don't really see this as OOC.

And honestly, if we're gonna treat her as OOC then there are other characters who are also OOC, so why should only Liz get to skate? I keep hearing 'Carly wouldn't have given Franco the time of day' or 'Anna wouldn't just leave Robin out there alone' or 'Patrick would know there's something wrong with Robin' etc, etc. So if other characters aren't getting a course correction then both Nik and Liz should put on their big boy and girl panties and take that L.

But Carly, Anna, Patrick ARE skating, IMO. Carly hasn't paid for anything she's done in years. She's happily marrying a murderer, for one thing. And the show doesn't give a crap that Anna and Patrick give less than 0 fucks about Robin. And most fans (except me and three others, lol) use KMc as an excuse, even though when she ever comes back on-screen, Patrick can't really be like, "Sorry, Robin! Kimberly McCullough is to blame for why I acted like a douchebag!" What's written is written. The story is the story.

[IWantCandy71]

Honestly, I like Nik better dark, so I'm good if he doesn't really seem affected by people hating on him. As far as Dillon's remarks....strangely enough, I do think someone will betray Nikolas-most likely Liz-but I have a different take on the remarks. I still think Paul is involved in some way, with Nik's takeover. There's a reason why Dillon has been so in Nik's face about it several times. Even Tracy only confronted Nik face to face one time, right?  I think Dillon's growing acceptance of Paul, and his disdain for Nik, are going to collide in some fashion. Whatever it is Paul is up to, (and I don't think Ron had a clue what it is, just like he didn't know what Rosalie's secret was), it's gonna tear down any progress Dillon has made with him. And I can't really see it being because Paul is in the mob, unless the money given to Dillon for the movie was mob money. Otherwise, I'm not sure Dillon would care too much.

[Oracle42]

I'm all for a coma dream reset.

I don't mind Dark!Nik but the motivations are nonexistent and the excuses that we got instead are lazy garbage created by a writer who cares more about the denunciation scenes than character integrity or the story as a whole.

There's nothing RC has done in the past two years that I wouldn't be willing to lose in a reset

[dubbel zout]

I'd take a scene where it's revealed that Diane has been reading Molly's latest manuscript and tells her no one will be interested in people acting this way.

 

Anything to get rid of this crap.

[ulkis]

ugh, Mo said a while ago he and DZ filmed beautiful scenes together. Someone hold me!

[HeatLifer]

ugh, Mo said a while ago he and DZ filmed beautiful scenes together. Someone hold me!

This is why I hope for cancellation.

[ulkis]

I'd take a scene where it's revealed that Diane has been reading Molly's latest manuscript and tells her no one will be interested in people acting this way.

Anything to get rid of this crap.

That would be awesome actually.

[Jalyn]

I'd take a scene where it's revealed that Diane has been reading Molly's latest manuscript and tells her no one will be interested in people acting this way.

 

Anything to get rid of this crap.

But I thought Molly was supposed to be a good writer?

[jsbt]

I think TC imbues Dark Nik with some good stuff. The problem is there is no discernable, plausible motivation, and so the actor is also clearly struggling. He is a talented actor but unlike some others he cannot rise above bad or paper-thin material, and that's what so much of this is.

 

If you told me, well, Helena has Emily or Stefan or something and that's how this all started but now that hope is gone, or something, and he's still up to no good because he's in fuck-the-world mode, something like that I could maybe buy. Because part of Nik is now clearly relishing this. The question is how it began, and brainwashing would be so lame.

 

Here's a classic It Happened Offscreen, after the fact Re-Ron idea that would kind of work - Say he got wind from a source that Rebecca Shaw really was Emily, that Helena had sent her off somewhere, that he spent months and years secretly searching for her, leveraging the Cassadine resources, trying to work with his grandmother and stay in her best graces while biding his time. Even while he was into Liz upon his return, even while he was involved with Britt, he kept his quiet search going. Then he discovers, Rebecca is gone, MIA for seemingly good, and all the terrible things he did overseas to help effect that quest were for naught. So now all he has is what he's built. He started out doing bad things for the right reasons, and now all he has are his (wrong) reasons.

Edited August 24, 2015 by jsbt

[WendyCR72]

I guess the Rebecca Shaw angle could work, but honestly? As a Zander/Emily fan who felt screwed over for Nik/Emily (even if I did like AT much more), I liked that Rebecca ran off with the Zander doppelganger.  :-)

[Oracle42]

I could easily enjoy Dark!Nik. I just need something less dumb and misogynistic than because Britt - and something less lame/more worthy than greed. It's a soap! I'd take anything that was decently soapy and in character

[dubbel zout]

Greed would work for me if he wasn't going after ELQ because no one loved Emily, or whatever fakakta reason we were given. Have him go after the MetroCourt, GH (which would give us a better reason for a Cassadine-Quartermaine showdown), Sonny's coffee business. There are better options.

[Oracle42]

And if all the shares hadn't been obtained through fraud, extortion and blackmail with Nik putting a hit on a woman to maintain this ridiculous, unsustainable takeover

[Bawoman]

Honestly, I like Nik better dark, so I'm good if he doesn't really seem affected by people hating on him. As far as Dillon's remarks....strangely enough, I do think someone will betray Nikolas-most likely Liz-but I have a different take on the remarks. I still think Paul is involved in some way, with Nik's takeover. There's a reason why Dillon has been so in Nik's face about it several times. Even Tracy only confronted Nik face to face one time, right?  I think Dillon's growing acceptance of Paul, and his disdain for Nik, are going to collide in some fashion. Whatever it is Paul is up to, (and I don't think Ron had a clue what it is, just like he didn't know what Rosalie's secret was), it's gonna tear down any progress Dillon has made with him. And I can't really see it being because Paul is in the mob, unless the money given to Dillon for the movie was mob money. Otherwise, I'm not sure Dillon would care too much.

 

I'm thinking Hayden because there are some pretty heavy rumors that she will be Quartermained. I can see Nik thinking she's on his side, and then BAM, knife in his back. Also, they seemed to mention the Quartermaine takeover a bit too many times while Hayden was around. That, and the cryptic "It's not like I have any companies to steal" from Hayden makes me think they could go there.

 

I do agree that Nik's motivations make absolutely no sense, unless theres something we don't know yet. But I do like him this way, as a relatively new viewer its the first time I've found him interesting. And I think TC is doing a great job with what he is being given.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Bawoman

[Oracle42]

JP isn't going to be able to resist writing a Princess Greenlee story, despite the fact that Nik has shown nothing but contempt for this woman and hired someone to murder her

[ulkis]

"But Luke raped Laura!"

[KerleyQ]

"But Luke raped Laura!"

 

If the writers are going to use that line of thinking to justify crap like that, I just want to see the characters in town start saying that in response to things like "how could you get involved with him after he had you shot?"  "But Luke raped Laura!"  

[Tiger]

despite the fact that Nik has shown nothing but contempt for this woman and hired someone to murder her

Two of the many reasons why Hayden needs to be Emily. The only real consequence for Nik is if Emily hates him forever.

[WendyCR72]

"But Luke raped Laura!"

 

Ha! Yeah. Trouble is, the times that took place in are much different now, although I'm sure it's the catch-all for all of the hacks when they have the characters do awful shit.

 

Context is important, writers!

[yowsah1]

Agreed. If Liez should get a pass because her behavior is supposedly OCC then so should every other character that existed before Ron took over. He fucked over practically all of them.

 

 

But Carly, Anna, Patrick ARE skating, IMO. Carly hasn't paid for anything she's done in years. She's happily marrying a murderer, for one thing. And the show doesn't give a crap that Anna and Patrick give less than 0 fucks about Robin.

 

Anna blew a man away in cold blood.  No consequences.  Franco buried his mother alive.  No consequences.  Nina ripped a baby straight out of a woman's womb.  No consequences.  Nik had a woman shot.  No consequences.  I could go on and on.

 

Yet somehow Liz should be raked over the coals while killers and baby-stealers get to go on their merry way.  I understand that characters suffering some sort of consequences for their actions is needed as part of fixing the show, but it seems to me they should start with the people who actually committed heinous crimes (Franco and Nina, I'm looking at you), rather than the law-abiding character who told a fib.

Edited August 25, 2015 by yowsah1

[Oracle42]

I'm fine with all of them - including Liz but especially Franco - suffering consequences.

But this Liz crap has gone on for months. It's well past "a fib" at this point. Hell, Liz passed fib the first time she had sex with him. The writers need to either undo it (which would be ideal) or deal out consequences and move on

Edited August 25, 2015 by Oracle42

[jsbt]

As for Anna, Carlos got exactly what was coming to him. He knew that as well as anyone.

Edited August 25, 2015 by jsbt

[TeeVee329]

I'm fine with all of them - including Liz but especially Franco - suffering consequences.

But this Liz crap has gone on for months. It's well past "a fib" at this point. Hell, Liz passed fib the first time she had sex with him. The writers need to either undo it (which would be ideal) or deal out consequences and move on

 

It's definitely WELL beyond "a fib" at this point, especially now that she knows Nikolas tried to have a woman killed to keep "the fib" going.

[WendyCR72]

But this Liz crap has gone on for months. It's well past "a fib" at this point. Hell, Liz passed fib the first time she had sex with him. The writers need to either undo it or deal out consequences and move on

 

This. And it is galling coming from someone who had the good luck to have her dead son come home yet she is denying Monica that same chance, much as I hate Jason. But she is manipulating Laura, downplaying the pain of other mothers, and is all too willing to use Nik's misdeeds to cover her own.

 

This isn't a white lie, and Liz deserves to suffer. And all that were listed above can join her. But this isn't Liz's first rodeo, so the idea that she'll be whitewashed again by another breakdown - real or fake - or just have people pat her on the head makes me preemptively want to have one of dubbel zout's rage blackouts.

[HeatLifer]

I'm fine with all of them - including Liz but especially Franco - suffering consequences.

But this Liz crap has gone on for months. It's well past "a fib" at this point. Hell, Liz passed fib the first time she had sex with him. The writers need to either undo it (which would be ideal) or deal out consequences and move on

While I think Liz should suffer consequences (for me, that's just her losing Jason for good and ending Liason once and for all), I understand the frustration of Liz fans, especially because this particular story made more sense through Patrick.

[WendyCR72]

While I think Liz should suffer consequences (for me, that's just her losing Jason for good and ending Liason once and for all), I understand the frustration of Liz fans, especially because this particular story made more sense through Patrick.

 

I know we'll never agree (ha!), but I do think this was the one thing RC did right: Liz was ALWAYS obsessive about Jason, all the way back to "painting the wind". I'll concede Jason encouraged her in the beginning, but once he threw her over for Courtney, that should have been it.

 

So I buy that Liz would delude herself so she could get a crumb from Jason, even if he has no idea who the hell he is.

[HeatLifer]

I know we'll never agree (ha!), but I do think this was the one thing RC did right: Liz was ALWAYS obsessive about Jason, all the way back to "painting the wind". I'll concede Jason encouraged her in the beginning, but once he threw her over for Courtney, that should have been it.

 

So I buy that Liz would delude herself so she could get a crumb from Jason, even if he has no idea who the hell he is.

LOL. We won't agree. But I'm OK with being the only person who thinks that on any other show, on any other soap, Patrick screwing the wife of the man that Robin left to save would be S-H-A-D-Y.

[IWantCandy71]

It's definitely WELL beyond "a fib" at this point, especially now that she knows Nikolas tried to have a woman killed to keep "the fib" going.

 

It's called "accessory after the fact" I do believe. Which hardly makes her law abiding. I'm totally for all characters facing some consequences, but again, we get into "what is paying?".

Because if everyone who commits a crime goes to jail, they'll have to move the entire cast to Pentonville. There are other ways of paying. I'm totally okay with Liz's consequences being that people see her for the selfish person she is, and shunning her for a while. I actually think she'll be getting off light, but again...okay with that.

 

I'm thinking Hayden because there are some pretty heavy rumors that she will be Quartermained. I can see Nik thinking she's on his side, and then BAM, knife in his back. Also, they seemed to mention the Quartermaine takeover a bit too many times while Hayden was around. That, and the cryptic "It's not like I have any companies to steal" from Hayden makes me think they could go there.

 

 

 

I still think Hayden will be Susan before she'll be a Q, but we'll see. What or who Ron might have wanted her to be will be different from the new writers, I'm sure.

Edited August 25, 2015 by IWantCandy71

[testardo]

It's definitely WELL beyond "a fib" at this point, especially now that she knows Nikolas tried to have a woman killed to keep "the fib" going.

I am neither a Liz fan or hater. I look at it, Liz is doing Sam a favor. She is keeping the killer borg and his enemies away from her and Danny. But she is putting her sons in a very bad situation of loving someone ,only to have them leave and hate their mother. I hadn't been watching much but wasn't Monica persona non-gratis with the borg anyway. ? When the real Jason was alive if he knew AJ was, he would have most likely sided with Scummy and set in wait for him. He probably would have shot AJ before Sonny .Liz is not breaking the law, not that it would make any difference on this show. So the town will be mad at her. Until Jason loads up his six shooters and bullets fly. Him and Sonny will rule, and the ratings can recede even more. I'm surprised they haven't erected a plaque or statue on the docks. Actually I would want one for Faison for dumping him in the drink.

[dubbel zout]

wasn't Monica persona non-gratis with the borg anyway. ?

No. Monica never gave up on Jason—she always slobbered over him when he deigned to come to the house or they crossed paths somewhere—and Jason eventually decided he could visit her without him bursting into flames. It was a very unequal relationship, and very aggravating for that reason. Monica had to be happy with the crumbs Jason threw her. 

[Oracle42]

LOL. We won't agree. But I'm OK with being the only person who thinks that on any other show, on any other soap, Patrick screwing the wife of the man that Robin left to save would be S-H-A-D-Y.

I think it would be shady if he'd pursued her because Robin left to save her husband and I think their first kiss when Patrick believed Jason might be alive was shady but I don't think their actual relationship (while dull, chem-free and badly written) has been shady

[HeatLifer]

I think it would be shady if he'd pursued her because Robin left to save her husband and I think their first kiss when Patrick believed Jason might be alive was shady but I don't think their actual relationship (while dull, chem-free and badly written) has been shady

I'm not saying they're shady. I'm saying on any other show, the writers would have made that kind of relationship shady under those circumstances. Not on GH, though! On GH, Patrick is a perfect prince who only ~lied about Jason to protect Sam from the pain~ and loves Sam SO MUCH and deserves happiness SO MUCH.

It's all about what the writers choose to do. Liz and Jake weren't shady until the writers took it in that direction. And that was less organic than if they decided to do that with Patrick/Sam.

[KerleyQ]

I think it would be shady if he'd pursued her because Robin left to save her husband and I think their first kiss when Patrick believed Jason might be alive was shady but I don't think their actual relationship (while dull, chem-free and badly written) has been shady

 

 

Their relationship would almost certainly be more interesting if he pursued her because Robin was off saving Jason. 

[Oracle42]

It would be more interesting, more in character and it would give the relationship actual stakes

[aw86]

Warning:

The new writers refer to Anna/Sam/Patrick/Emma as a family in the new SID.  Sam now has Robin's husband, child, house, and mother.  My head almost exploded when I read it.  How much more propping does this lame couple need?

[Tiger]

Warning:

The new writers refer to Anna/Sam/Patrick/Emma as a family in the new SID.  Sam now has Robin's husband, child, house, and mother.  My head almost exploded when I read it.  How much more propping does this lame couple need?

:has thermo-nuclear RAGE BLACKOUT:

[HeatLifer]

:has thermo-nuclear RAGE BLACKOUT:

Poor JT joins you.

[WendyCR72]

Warning:

The new writers refer to Anna/Sam/Patrick/Emma as a family in the new SID.  Sam now has Robin's husband, child, house, and mother.  My head almost exploded when I read it.  How much more propping does this lame couple need?

 

I smell bullshit - and more record lows in the offing. Make it so! It's clear no one gets it. Well, maybe JT from the sound of his PA with KMc, but he is sadly doing his job, so yeah...shit.

[HeatLifer]

I smell bullshit - and more record lows in the offing. Make it so! It's clear no one gets it. Well, maybe JT from the sound of his PA with KMc, but he is sadly doing his job, so yeah...shit.

They really don't get it. Or I must have missed the day when Patrina 2.0 became such a popular, undeniable pairing that they've decided Robin's mother and daughter should be the family member of Patrick's new bed buddy.

[WendyCR72]

They really don't get it. Or I must have missed the day when Patrina 2.0 became such a popular, undeniable pairing that they've decided Robin's mother and daughter should be the family member of Patrick's new bed buddy.

 

I really do want cancellation at this point. I mean, the shit will never change.

[HeatLifer]

I really do want cancellation at this point. I mean, the shit will never change.

I agree. I'm at my "I'm over it" point. And the new writers saying nothing about a 30-year vet character being a prisoner for ONE YEAR with no end in sight? Not even a "We know we need to deal with this"? I'm officially out. Not here for this shit.