S01.E09: The C the C the Open C

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Hope comes in strange forms, and the question of what the men are willing to do to survive begins to be settled in both noble and horrifying ways.

 

[formerlyfreedom]

A reminder - this is the topic to discuss the episode of The Terror; if you would like to discuss the book the show is based on or the real-life events that inspired them, please take your discussion to "The True Story of the Franklin Expedition" topic; posts that go off topic may be removed. Thank you!

[SoSueMe]

Well, that was gut-wrenching. God, what acting. Poor Mr. Goodsir, Jopson, Bridgens and Henry (?); it doesn't pay to get attached to these characters. 

Poor Lady Silence, no pressure there.

Edited May 15, 2018 by SoSueMe
Wrong name for Henry

[SimoneS]

Poor Francis. It is all falling apart. All these losses are crushing him. It was so poignant watching him tenderly caring for Jopson as he did for him when he was going through withdrawal. He is such a good man. After all that betrayal, he still wants to save the men who mutineered and yet he is still betrayed by another. As James said, "more than God loves them." A damn sight more than I do. They deserve Hickey. I hope he kills and eats them all.

Oh James, farewell, "good night, sweet prince." His suffering is over.  Oh Thomas Blanky, you courageous and loving man, such a good friend. I have to admit losing James and Thomas one after the other made me tear up.

I could have sworn that Goodsir wasn't taken. I was sure that he hid in one of the tents. 

Was the Inuit woman trying to get her people to help the men after all they did? It was sad how the Inuit leader was telling her how the British had scared off the little game there was and left them all starving except for what they could hunt from the sea.

Now I am convinced that John and Henry were lovers.

Edited May 15, 2018 by SimoneS

[tennisgurl]

That was an absolutely devastating episode, watching everything fall apart and the men fall to despair and death. Not that things have been hunky dory before all of this, but this really drove home the fact that this is going to end terribly, and we just need to deal with that. I admit, I've watched this knowing how all this will go, and yet hoping that, somehow, things will get better, and maybe a few people might make it out. Not anymore though. Its probably just going to get uglier and uglier. 

Poor, poor Francis. He is so clearly being broken down by all these losses, especially the loss of James. At his funeral, when Blanky told Francis that he was going to stay behind as his leg was falling apart, Francis just looked utterly devastated. Like, he would have just lied down and died right then if he didnt still have the responsibility towards the other men. Its just so awful watching everything get worse and worse. And he is trying so hard to look out for everyone and stay strong for them, even the men who sided with Hickey and betrayed him. 

We just kept losing people, over and over, and James so quickly into the episode! It really is touching to see how much they've grown from two guys who couldn't really stand each other and were only working together out of necessity, to true and loyal friends. It makes James dying so awfully (with actual holes in his body!) so much more devastating. 

The speech that Hodgson gave to Goodsir was so fascinating, and the actor was amazing. Especially that ending. "But I`m hungry. And I want to live". And admitting that he wants to kill Hickey, but he isnt brave enough to do it and face the wrath of his supporters. Speaking of, poor Goodsir. I was hoping he escaped Hickey, but I guess he either didnt, or was caught later, but what an awful place to be stuck. I was really struck by how hard he was trying to harden himself to all of this (his normally gentle bedside manner was rather lacking when he told the guy he was going to die), but as soon as Hickey stabbed him, we was horrified, and went back to his normal self, oozing compassion. He is trying so hard to keep it together and do what he can, but its clearly not working, especially with a wackjob like Hickey around. I was so afraid he had killed himself after being forced to cut the dead man up to eat, I was just happy to see him open his eyes. 

If I had to pick between death by snow monster, and death by Hickey, I pick the bear any time of the day, even if he does eat my soul. Better that than my last sight on this earth being Hickeys smug, nasty face starring at me. He seemed to honestly be enjoying eating a dead man, as the king of his little kingdom. What a horrible man he is. 

And, because I wasn't devastated enough, Jopson deteriorating while Francis tries to take care of and comfort him, even knowing its too late, mirroring when Jopson was taking care of him when he was going through withdraws, was making my heart hurt. 

If the whole show is about civilization and how people handle adversity, I guess Francis and Hickey are two different sides of that equation. Hickey is the mad beast in humanity that will turn on others and do cruel things in the name of survival, while Francis is trying to keep decency and safety among his people, even at great personal cost. Not saying this isnt complicated by the fact that Francis isnt a saint, while Hickey and his people can probably justify some of their deeds with brutal pragmatism, but the point still stands. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Christi]

What did Hickey say/do to Goodsir cut up the dead friend? I missed it! ?

Just watching Hickey standing, arms outstretched and smiling, and he really looked like Judas to me!

Not that Ive seen Judas,  so it must be a callback to my favorite Jesus movie..Godspell?

[Starchild]

Hickey threatened to torture/kill Hodgson if Goodsir didn't butcher Gibson.

[LittleIggy]

55 minutes ago, Christi said:

What did Hickey say/do to Goodsir cut up the dead friend? I missed it! ?

Threaten dismemberment while alive of another crew member (a lieutenant, maybe the one who gave the soliloquy) if he didn’t. Did they not even cook the meat? It looked raw. 

 Please someone kill effing Hickey! I guess Toolbaq leaves him alone because he has no soul. Why can’t Goodsir slash his carotid artery with a scalpel?

What will season 2 be about? The many rescue attempt voyages? Lady Franklin kept pressing for these for many years.

Edited May 15, 2018 by LittleIggy

[Christi]

ugh....well thats worse than I imagined?

thank you tho??

ok...this is a hard episode to follow...was the dude at the end Goodsir? and why was the guy wrapped in forks?

Edited May 15, 2018 by Christi

[tennisgurl]

“How was my Monday night? Well, I cried about the fates of a bunch of guys who died over 170 years ago.” -My episode summary. 

[LittleIggy]

11 hours ago, Christi said:

ugh....well thats worse than I imagined?

thank you tho??

ok...this is a hard episode to follow...was the dude at the end Goodsir? and why was the guy wrapped in forks?

 

That was Blanky. He had asked Crozier for the forks and rope. It appears he wanted to make Tuunbaq suffer trying to eat him. ? That’s all I got!

Edited May 15, 2018 by LittleIggy

[slothgirl]

What a heart-wrenching episode! 

Mr Goodsir being (for him) cold and unmoved by the potential slow death of Gibson.

Then finding the ring when he goes to cut him up... and then I thought sure he'd killed himself in the tent. Thankfully no... although he might be better off if he did.

Blankey being, to the end, the most bad-ass sailor to ever traverse the seas.

Crozier... no words... just give JH the frickin' Emmy already.

Crozier killing James out of mercy as an assisted suicide. Hickey giving Gibson a swifter, less agonizing death than he would have had, yet nothing merciful about it.

John and Henry... I still don't quite know what their relationship was, and the beauty of it is that I don't need to. I got a father/son or mentor/mentee vibe rather than lovers until this last ep, but whatever it was (and I'm not looking to debate it) it was genuine love of 2 sensitive poetic souls.

Did Hickey steal an officer's long coat? And why is that little turd not showing ANY signs of fatigue, illness, or even general wear & tear?

When did they manage to nab Goodsir? Wasn't he hiding?

So Tuunbaq exists to maintain the natural balance/order? That doesn't track with what we've been seeing so far. Why would "obeying" a human ever even be a consideration if that was the point? Why all the magic tricks stacking bodies and displaying heads? At least LS got her little statue figures carved. If Tuunbaq is still "hers", why do they need another shaman to go find him? They better do a better job in the last episode of making sense out of Tuunbaq, cause otherwise, he's just Deus Ex Machina in reverse and we could have done without him.

Edited May 15, 2018 by slothgirl

[Christi]

huh...well I own 3 dogs that look like Tuuanaq (sp), so I hope he is ok...everyone just needs to stay in their lanes! Animal Spirit Demons have rights too!?

I was glad to hear the one guy say he saw the beast swallow the dude's soul! I rewound that scene a million times, and it was so subtle, I didnt know if I was imagining it? 

[thuganomics85]

Whelp, it's the penultimate episode of The Terror, so, yes, it's time to just crush my soul, pull out my heart, and stomp all over it.  All while still making me love this show.  I don't know how they've done it.

I still remembered when the show premiered and I foolishly said that I was going to enjoy loving to hate Fitzjames.  Weeks later and here I am, actually tearing up over his death.  I knew he was on borrowed time once we saw all of his wounds, but I so did not want to see him go.  Tobias Menzies really is one of my favorites.

But, hey, the hits keep on coming!  Following his funeral, Francis (and the audience) then find out that Blanky's injury has actually gotten worse and there's no coming back from it, so he's pretty much going to sacrifice himself to the bear in order to give the rest of the men more time.  Jared Harris was spectacular in that moment, where you could tell that Francis was just unraveling over all of the losses he was suffering, and he was just being crushed by all of the sadness and pain he was feeling.  At least Blanky got a solid badass exit.  Complete with getting the one "fuck" of the season, which Ian Hart delivered with the perfect gusto!

And then there were all of the other deaths of characters that I admit I do not know their names but I still felt the weight of them, and, of course, now poor Jopson is knocking on death's door.  Damn, this is crushing!

Meanwhile, it turns out that poor Mr. Goodsir actually did get captured by Hickey and his ilk, and is now being forced to cut up a corpse in order for that lot to eat it.  I'm glad he's got at least one companion with Hodgson, but I really fear for what is in store for my beloved surgeon!  And, of course, Hickey continues to be the worst.  Not sure who I'm pulling for to take him out: a) Francis, b) Goodsir, or c) the bear.

Cool seeing Lady Franklin again.  And, holy shit!  A Charles Dickens cameo!  But this is certainly not A Tale of Two Cities, because there are no best of times here, only the worst of times!

Have I mentioned how much I love this show despite being so heartbreaking?  I both dread next week's finale, but I equally can't wait to see how all of this ends!

[Sighed I]

Glad I'm not the only one to shed tears. :`( I knew it was coming sooner rather than later for Fitzjames after we saw his war wounds reopening last week, but it still didn't prepare me when the moment actually came. Even at the end he was thinking of the crew, telling Crozier to use his body to feed the men. Beautiful acting from Tobias and Jared.

Then we lose Blanky, who ended up being one of my favorites. I really wanted him to be one of the last men standing, but I knew it was denial on my part. It wasn't that long between the amputation and when they abandoned ship, and the punishment his stump would be under walking so far on that terrain...he never really had a chance. :`( His farewell with Francis was the second time I teared up. Blanky's such a bad ass, and the first (European) to find the Northwest Passage! I love how fearless and pragmatic he is; he knew he was goner and chose to go out helping his mates instead of subjecting them, and himself, to a slow agonizing death.

I was very sad about Tom Hartnell and Henri too. I'm glad Crozier was there to comfort Tom and tell him what he needed to know, that he acquitted himself well. And Bridgens holding it together for Henri, and reading to him. It was a beautiful bookend to the first time we see the two of them together, bonding over books. I wonder if Bridgens is giving up now, or "just" mourning?

I think Goodsir's acerbity with Gibson was in no small part because of his involvement with Harry's kidnapping. I've never been a huge fan of Gibson, and I think he shoulders more than a little of the blame for things being what they are. He was the first one to openly suggest mutiny to increase their chances of survival. How'd that work out for you, Billy? Not that Hickey wouldn't have staged a mutiny on his own, but still, Gibson set it into motion right from the beginning. I knew Hickey would stab his former lover in the back, I just didn't realize how literal it would be.

Why exactly are the mutineers letting Hickey call all the shots? About half a dozen of the men in their group outrank him; are they all afraid of him? I wish Goodsir told Hodgkins that he should go ahead and kill Hickey, because he was and is going to kill him.

I'm done with the Hickey character. I like the actor, and the mustache twirling didn't bother me that much at first because it fit the character, but he's so reprehensible and the joy he's taking in being a monster--it's as if he's never felt so alive because he doesn't have to hide his true nature anymore--repulses me. I just want him to die, painfully, please. The chance they had of making it was razor thin as it is; Hickey's machinations ensured none of them will survive, himself included. Way to go, asshole. :p

One thing I will say, I was surprised by how much compassion I had for the mutineers. Not as much as I do for Crozier's group (poor Jopson), but some of them, like the cook and Goodsir, aren't there by choice, and even some who are acted out of desperation. I was surprised to see Golding with Crozier as I thought he was in on the mutiny; turns out he still was. :p I have a feeling Tozer and Tuunbaq will meet again; I actually felt bad for him because of how spooked he was.

Glad to see Lady Silence again, and the hunky dude from the first episode. I hope getting Tuunbaq under control includes chomping down on a certain caulker's mate.

Great acting all around from the cast tonight. I know I say it every week, but I wouldn't have to if they stopped raising the bar. ;)

[slothgirl]

7 minutes ago, Sighed I said:

. And Bridgens holding it together for Henri, and reading to him. It was a beautiful bookend to the first time we see the two of them together, bonding over books. I wonder if Bridgens is giving up now, or "just" mourning?

I think we are meant to assume that he lay down to die there. There's only 1 episode left to spell out the fate of all who remain, and what could they possibly do with the character that would provide anything more than the send off they just gave him? No, I think he;s out of it. Continuing his story doesn't make sense from a storytelling standpoint

Edited May 15, 2018 by slothgirl

[Sighed I]

2 minutes ago, slothgirl said:

I think we are meant to assume that he lay down to die there. There's only 1 episode left to spell out the fate of all who remain, and what could they possibly do with the character that would provide anything more than the send off they just gave him? No, I think he;s out of it. Continuing his story doesn't make sense from a storytelling standpoint

I agree. I know we see his relationship with Henri differently, but one thing on which we can agree is they cared very much for each other. When Henri died, so did Bridgens' hope.

[shrewd.buddha]

That was a very well acted, but very sad, extended episode. But of course this was what it was always going to come to, in one way or another. 

Just some random observations: 

• Crozier and Hickey (and Goodsir) appear to look much healthier than the other men. A coincidence?  Are they just lucky? 
• That crazy British folly : a tent for every man? Wooden cabinets and tables in Goodsir's tent? Where are their priorities? 
• Did they find the passage they were looking for? (Despite it being iced over.) Will anyone ever know? 
• It is  interesting how most very 'religious' people do not appear to believe their own hype when it comes to dying and 'going to a better place'. 

I was confused when there was an announcement at the end of the episode for "scenes from next week's season finale." How could there be another season? 

Edited May 15, 2018 by shrewd.buddha

[Hybiscus]

Why would anyone make a tv show where everyone dies?  Why?  And why would they fill it with such terrific talent that I can't not watch it?

I have other questions, too.  The question of Bridgens lying down has been answered, although would he do that if he were the only medical?

Why did Blanky want 40 (?) forks?  Did he want to give the beast something to use while it ate him?

If I ever see Adam Nagaitis in anything else, I will probably throw up.

[AZChristian]

I've decided that the title character is NOT the ship or Tuunbaq.  It is Hickey.

Edited May 15, 2018 by AZChristian

[bookrat]

Who was shot at the end of the episode, the person the captain told to join his brother?

[proserpina65]

11 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I could have sworn that Goodsir wasn't taken. I was sure that he hid in one of the tents. 

He did hide, but I guess they found him, damn it.

I'd have thought Hickey had conflicted emotions over killing Gibson if he hadn't already proven that he's a sociopath with no empathy or feeling for anyone but himself.  I mean, cannibalism is icky but not dishonorable if one is starving and eats those who died of natural causes, but killing someone in order to eat them is vile.  And you know that was what Hickey did because he told Mr. Goodsir the only reason he wanted him along was to butcher the dead.

Oh man, the bleakness of this episode really got me.  From James's death, to Blanky's sacrifice (but hey, at least he saw the way to the NW passage), to Francis' inability to save them all despite his best efforts, I could barely stand it.

I do have a question though, what was up with Blanky's wanting all the forks?  My phone rang just as he was saying, and I missed the reason.

[SimoneS]

And why did they have to start the episode with the half torn off head of the carpenter? It was horrifying.

 

7 hours ago, Sighed I said:

Why exactly are the mutineers letting Hickey call all the shots? About half a dozen of the men in their group outrank him; are they all afraid of him? I wish Goodsir told Hodgkins that he should go ahead and kill Hickey, because he was and is going to kill him.

I don't think that they are afraid of Hickey as much as they are versions of him and I include Hobson in this (excluding Goodsir and the cook). Of course, they don't know that he deliberately sabotaged their chances of survival by killing the Inuits, but they share his willingness to abandon their comrades and kill others without any thought. It isn't like Gibson died from natural causes, they all know that Hickey killed him for food. 

 

29 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

I do have a question though, what was up with Blanky's wanting all the forks?  My phone rang just as he was saying, and I missed the reason.

Blanky wanted the forks to wrap around his body so that the spirit bear would be injured more when it attacked him.

Edited May 15, 2018 by SimoneS

[zobot81]

40 minutes ago, shrewd.buddha said:

Just some random observations: 

• Crozier and Hickey (and Goodsir) appear to look much healthier than the other men. A coincidence?  Are they just lucky? 

I noticed this, too, and considered why these three characters (in particular) look healthier than the rest of the crew. 

If I were to venture a guess, it is a deliberate exploitation of the medium (in this case, makeup/wardrobe) -- we are, at this point, meant to see these three men as the main characters.  And if we have not reached this conclusion organically, through plot and dialogue, it is perhaps the best way to "tell" us who matters most (ie. who the last men standing will be).

Furthermore, there was some discussion after past episodes about why Crozier appears fundamentally more fit than the other men, especially after detox.  The consensus seemed to be that while he was sobering up (for about two weeks?), Crozier was barely eating (if at all), so was not as badly exposed to the poisoned can rations.

Physiologically, I see no real reason why Goodsir and Hickey would be better off than the rest of the men.

[slothgirl]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

I've decided that the title character is NOT the ship or Tuunbaq.  It is Hickey.

 

I think it is meant to be all of those things plus the fear that everyone feels and what it makes them do

1 hour ago, bookrat said:

Who was shot at the end of the episode, the person the captain told to join his brother?

It was the guy that got lashed with Hickey and who decided to use the experience to become a better, and more loyal teammate. IRL, there were 2 brothers on the expedition and one of them died earlier than this story starts. That man was one of the 3 crew members whose body was buried on Beechey Island and was actually found. 

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

He did hide, but I guess they found him, damn it.

I do have a question though, what was up with Blanky's wanting all the forks?  My phone rang just as he was saying, and I missed the reason.

Lovable fool Goodsir probably hid in his own tent. After all, he probably thought he was just hiding from Tuunbaq and his tent had all that heavy furniture they were dragging over rocks. (seriously... these guys are explorers, but their glamping instead of camping?????)

Blankey tied them around himself with the rope so to cause problems for Tuunbaq once he tried to eat him. Even if it doesn't tear up Tuunbaq's mouth the chew him, or his thraot to swallow him, it will be hell moving through his digestive system.

40 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

And why did they have to start the episode with the half torn off head of the carpenter? It was horrifying.

 

They cut straight from Lady Jane's face, slowly panning down her face to her teeth and mouth as we see and hear her go from confident in her speech to doubting the effectiveness of her appeal. Then change to the remaining lower jaw of the headless guy If you look closely, it isn't just severed at the neck; you can see portions of the lower jaw with teeth. I'm sure there's metaphor and symbolism intended in the entire sequence. The entire episode is about losing hope and eating.

28 minutes ago, zobot81 said:

I noticed this, too, and considered why these three characters (in particular) look healthier than the rest of the crew. 

If I were to venture a guess, it is a deliberate exploitation of the medium (in this case, makeup/wardrobe) -- we are, at this point, meant to see these three men as the main characters.  And if we have not reached this conclusion organically, through plot and dialogue, it is perhaps the best way to "tell" us who matters most (ie. who the last men standing will be).

Furthermore, there was some discussion after past episodes about why Crozier appears fundamentally more fit than the other men, especially after detox.  The consensus seemed to be that while he was sobering up (for about two weeks?), Crozier was barely eating (if at all), so was not as badly exposed to the poisoned can rations.

Physiologically, I see no real reason why Goodsir and Hickey would be better off than the rest of the men.

i don't see how a couple of weeks without the tinned food would make much difference when they've been out there for years. One of the things that scurvy does is break down tissue of old wounds such as we saw with James' Chinese story bullet would opening. Perhaps Crozier has no old wounds, and that has given him an advantage. The symptom of feeling like you have broken glass in your muscles that Goodsir tells Billy about as he will die are what scurvy does, not lead poisening, which is more associated with mental changes and organ failure.

Edited May 15, 2018 by slothgirl

[proserpina65]

40 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Blanky wanted the forks to wrap around his body so that the spirit bear would be injured more when it attacked him.

That what I assumed.  Makes sense, if he's going to sacrifice himself, might as well make it as hard on Tuunbaq as possible.

[maystone]

44 minutes ago, bookrat said:

Who was shot at the end of the episode, the person the captain told to join his brother?

His name was Hartnell. If I remember correctly, that was also the name of the young man who fell from the rigging and drowned early on. The one whose corpse Collins saw floating around when he was in the diving suit trying to fix the blades.

Damn this episode was grim. Superbly done, but so, so grim. I usually stay up to watch the rerun at 11PM (or thereabouts), and I just couldn't do it this time. I teared up numerous times, and each tear was earned by the actors.

I was surprised, too, to see Goodsir had been captured by the mutineers, and I was wondering why Hickey was so insistent on bringing him. I mean medically there wasn't much he could do to save anyone at that point. My jaw dropped when Hickey made it clear that he was brought along as a butcher. So obviously cannibalism was on the menu from the planning stages. Pun intended.

The scenes with Francis and James and then Francis and Blanky were just stellar. JH broke my heart with his "Christ! I'll not lose two friends in the same day!" Noble men all three, and all three badasses in their own way.

Was it just Goodsir who had furnishings in his tent? I thought that Hickey did, too, but I really could be mistaken. What's the point? I'd guess that Goodsir has equipment and and tools and medicines that need to be stored, but even so, at some point any extra baggage is going to decrease their chances of survival.

OK, here's what I thought was going on at the end. Both groups had scouts who had discovered that the ice was melting. Hickey's group wanted to head back to the stranded ships and sail on through. Although Hickey didn't seem to rah-rah on that plan. Crozier wanted his men to . . . launch their small boats and head to southern waters? I'm really not sure, but it seems like both of them wanted to get the hell off the ice and rocks. Although it also seemed to me that Crozier was trying to hide that fact from Hickey's guys, so all they heard repeated was that Crozier ordered his group to live. Anyone else have a clearer take on all of that.

I loved seeing Lady Silence again and getting an update on what's happening with her people. I also loved that she got her own totem. Yay! My impression is that Tuunbaq is a force of Nature that can be brought under the guidance (if not the control) of the current shaman. Poor LS - it wasn't her fault that she couldn't guide Tuunbaq; she tried. I think her return to the crew after she cut her tongue out was meant to serve as some sort of protection for them, and it did work while she was there. Now Tuunbaq will be used to restore balance to the ecology. The end will be the same for the crew, but at least there will be a purpose to their deaths beside revenge.

I think next week is going to brutal. I've heard or read no spoilers except for one reviewer's warning that the final scenes were not for the squeamish. Sigh.

[zobot81]

8 minutes ago, slothgirl said:

i don't see how a couple of weeks without the tinned food would make much difference when they've been out there for years. One of the things that scurvy does is break down tissue of old wounds such as we saw with James' Chinese story bullet would opening. Perhaps Crozier has no old wounds, and that has given him an advantage. The symptom of feeling like you have broken glass in your muscles that Goodsir tells Billy about as he will die are what scurvy does, not lead poisening, which is more associated with mental changes and organ failure.

Okay.  So it's just scurvy? Because it definitely seems like suffering from lead poisoning and scurvy would suck a lot, and make everyone really, really sick (which they are, and getting weirder by the day) -- even the three men who seem "healthy", compared to the others would be visibly ill.  Right?  Also, wasn't scurvy sorted out and pretty much cured by the time The Terror and the Erebus set sail? The crew were taking lemon shots (which literally prevents and cures scurvy) in one of the earlier episodes.  Maybe they ran out of it...

Idk, I'm confused now. Help!

[slothgirl]

42 minutes ago, maystone said:

His name was Hartnell. If I remember correctly, that was also the name of the young man who fell from the rigging and drowned early on. The one whose corpse Collins saw floating around when he was in the diving suit trying to fix the blades.

OK, here's what I thought was going on at the end. Both groups had scouts who had discovered that the ice was melting. Hickey's group wanted to head back to the stranded ships and sail on through. Although Hickey didn't seem to rah-rah on that plan. Crozier wanted his men to . . . launch their small boats and head to southern waters? I'm really not sure, but it seems like both of them wanted to get the hell off the ice and rocks. Although it also seemed to me that Crozier was trying to hide that fact from Hickey's guys, so all they heard repeated was that Crozier ordered his group to live. Anyone else have a clearer take on all of that.

I don't remember who the crewman who fell off the rigging was, but IRL, Hartnell's brother died long before then. One of the captains makes reference to the 3 guys buried on Beechey in some episode when he talks about remembering their fallen comrades or some such thing.

Crozier had told the men left back on the ships that if the ice melted, the ships were to sail to a certain point in the hopes of picking up the men on foot. Perhaps Crozier felt that getting to that meeting place would be easier and faster by sailing. Or even if they didn't go to the meeting point, they would get to civilization faster on water than by dragging all that stuff over rocks. That is why they used boats as sledges in these situations... they expected to actually get to water at some point.

My memory is that Corzier told the guys left back that they would be the discoverers of the Northwest passage, which means he intended for them to continue the journey around King William Island, NOT backtrack the way they came. That woudl take them to the side of KWI that the guys on foot had gone to, I think... I'm fuzzy on the geography

18 minutes ago, zobot81 said:

Okay.  So it's just scurvy? Because it definitely seems like suffering from lead poisoning and scurvy would suck a lot, and make everyone really, really sick (which they are, and getting weirder by the day) -- even the three men who seem "healthy", compared to the others would be visibly ill.  Right?  Also, wasn't scurvy sorted out and pretty much cured by the time The Terror and the Erebus set sail? The crew were taking lemon shots (which literally prevents and cures scurvy) in one of the earlier episodes.  Maybe they ran out of it...

Idk, I'm confused now. Help!

I seem to recall them saying something about the lemon juice in an early episode when that guy vomits blood everywhere, and they are so worried that it might be scurvy. So they clearly didn't have it completely handled and it was always a concern.

I posted an interesting article to the "real life" thread detailing the hypothesis of a dentist.

[Sighed I]

42 minutes ago, zobot81 said:

Also, wasn't scurvy sorted out and pretty much cured by the time The Terror and the Erebus set sail? The crew were taking lemon shots (which literally prevents and cures scurvy) in one of the earlier episodes.  Maybe they ran out of it...

Idk, I'm confused now. Help!

The vitamin C in lemon juice degrades over time. They still had some left around the time they were planning to leave, but Dr. McDonald said it probably had few anti-scorbutic properties left, as they were already seeing cases of scurvy among the crew.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Sighed I

[zobot81]

Thank you for clearing up the scurvy confusion! I definitely missed some pretty essential details about the crew's declining health.

[maystone]

6 minutes ago, slothgirl said:

I don't remember who the crewman who fell off the rigging was, but IRL, Hartnell's brother died long before then. One of the captains makes reference to the 3 guys buried on Beechey in some episode when he talks about remembering their fallen comrades or some such thing.

Crozier had told the men left back on the ships that if the ice melted, the ships were to sail to a certain point in the hopes of picking up the men on foot. Perhaps Crozier felt that getting to that meeting place would be easier and faster by sailing. Or even if they didn't go to the meeting point, they would get to civilization faster on water than by dragging all that stuff over rocks. That is why they used boats as sledges in these situations... they expected to actually get to water at some point.

My memory is that Corzier told the guys left back that they would be the discoverers of the Northwest passage, which means he intended for them to continue the journey around King William Island, NOT backtrack the way they came. That woudl take them to the side of KWI that the guys on foot had gone to, I think... I'm fuzzy on the geography.

Thanks for clearing up who the brother was. So many names, so little memory.

I know they brought the sledges along to use if they came to open water, and it looks as if they found some. I think Crozier told his men to take to the water, right? But when confronted with the guys from Hickey's crew he made it seem as if they didn't know about the open water and his orders were for his men to continue walking south. If that's right, we could end up with a mini sea battle between the two camps in their sledges.

[proserpina65]

52 minutes ago, zobot81 said:

Also, wasn't scurvy sorted out and pretty much cured by the time The Terror and the Erebus set sail? The crew were taking lemon shots (which literally prevents and cures scurvy) in one of the earlier episodes.  Maybe they ran out of it...

James was definitely dying of scurvy, as was Gibson.  Yes, Terror and Erebus carried a supply of lemon juice to combat scurvy, but after three years, it had gotten too weak to do much good.

8 minutes ago, maystone said:

I know they brought the sledges along to use if they came to open water, and it looks as if they found some. I think Crozier told his men to take to the water, right? But when confronted with the guys from Hickey's crew he made it seem as if they didn't know about the open water and his orders were for his men to continue walking south. If that's right, we could end up with a mini sea battle between the two camps in their sledges.

The crew member who told the captain there was enough open water for the boats was Hickey's spy in the camp, and was lying.

[SoSueMe]

1 hour ago, zobot81 said:

Furthermore, there was some discussion after past episodes about why Crozier appears fundamentally more fit than the other men, especially after detox.  The consensus seemed to be that while he was sobering up (for about two weeks?), Crozier was barely eating (if at all), so was not as badly exposed to the poisoned can rations.

Physiologically, I see no real reason why Goodsir and Hickey would be better off than the rest of the men.

I caught something about the quantity of salted meat, biscuits and chocolate, so maybe it's possible that some who picked up on the lead contamination restricted their intake of canned food and ate mostly the non-canned foods.

[Sighed I]

3 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

That was a very well acted, but very sad, extended episode. But of course this was what it was always going to come to, in one way or another. 

I was confused when there was an announcement at the end of the episode for "scenes from next week's season finale." How could there be another season? 

The show, if renewed, is intended to be an anthology series, with a new story and cast each season.

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I don't think that they are afraid of Hickey as much as they are versions of him and I include Hobson in this (excluding Goodsir and the cook). Of course, they don't know that he deliberately sabotaged their chances of survival by killing the Inuits, but they share his willingness to abandon their comrades and kill others without any thought. It isn't like Gibson died from natural causes, they all know that Hickey killed him for food.

That's a good point. I do think there's some fear, at least for some of them, but it could be as much about not having to be the one who makes the tough calls as it is being intimidated by Hickey. He's the only one who's willing to say, without hesitation, bon appetit to cannibalism. They're all starving, but Hickey making the call and doing the deed gives them a layer of deniability while still reaping the benefits, such as they are. He's also the only one in their group showing any confidence in decision making. Despite all their scheming, it shows just how completely out of their depth they are. I feel sorry for them in some ways, because fear and desperation led them to this place. In other ways I don't feel sorry for them at all, for being so easily manipulated by the likes of Hickey when they already had a leader who knows what he's doing and actually gave a shit about them.

[jnymph]

I have yet to watch this episode, but I will tonight.   I have stop and get some WINE first so I can cope by drinking a'la Crozier.  LOL

Hence, I'm not reading any of the posts, I don't want to be spoiled.    Such mixed emotions, dreading AND looking forward to watching.  Sheesh. 

[zobot81]

50 minutes ago, SoSueMe said:

I caught something about the quantity of salted meat, biscuits and chocolate, so maybe it's possible that some who picked up on the lead contamination restricted their intake of canned food and ate mostly the non-canned foods.

How am I missing so many details??

...I think I need to re-watch the entire season with CC turned on.   -__-

[SoSueMe]

53 minutes ago, jnymph said:

I have yet to watch this episode, but I will tonight.   I have stop and get some WINE first so I can cope by drinking a'la Crozier.  LOL

Hence, I'm not reading any of the posts, I don't want to be spoiled.    Such mixed emotions, dreading AND looking forward to watching.  Sheesh. 

Use captioning if you can :) 

[slothgirl]

Why didn't Hickey's crew cook the meat? Did they carefully plan grabbing supplies and NOT grab any type of fuel or firestarter? Do they not have anything to burn even with a firestarter? The main group managed to burn all the bodies left by the Tuunbaq massacre, so the camp had some form of fuel.

I'm also wondering what they are drinking... do the tinned goods include liquids? Now that they have been on the wasteland of King William Island, where are they getting water? Why haven't they died of dehydration?

Edited May 15, 2018 by slothgirl

[Lynnann]

1 hour ago, jnymph said:

I have yet to watch this episode, but I will tonight.   I have stop and get some WINE first so I can cope by drinking a'la Crozier.  LOL

Hence, I'm not reading any of the posts, I don't want to be spoiled.    Such mixed emotions, dreading AND looking forward to watching.  Sheesh. 

My husband commented that he needed whiskey to watch this ep.

3 minutes ago, slothgirl said:

Why didn't Hickey's crew cook the meat? Did they carefully plan grabbing supplies and NOT grab any type of fuel or firestarter? Do they not have anything to burn even with a firestarter? The main group managed to burn all the bodies left by the Tuunbaq massacre, so the camp had some form of fuel.

I'm also wondering what they are drinking... do the tinned goods include liquids? Now that they have been on the wasteland of King William Island, where are they getting water? Why haven't they died of dehydration?

There doesn't look like there is a whole lot of wood where they are.  It looks like it's all skree.

[Sighed I]

1 hour ago, jnymph said:

I have yet to watch this episode, but I will tonight.   I have stop and get some WINE first so I can cope by drinking a'la Crozier.  LOL

Hence, I'm not reading any of the posts, I don't want to be spoiled.    Such mixed emotions, dreading AND looking forward to watching.  Sheesh. 

I will be virtually joining you tonight, alcohol included. ;) I couldn't bear watching the episode twice on broadcast night as per usual, it was so heartbreaking, but it's so good I have to see it again.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Sighed I

[Hybiscus]

5 hours ago, Hybiscus said:

If I ever see Adam Nagaitis in anything else, I will probably throw up.

 

I should clarify myself because that statement sounds pretty harsth and personal.  I have nothing against the actor or his talent.  It's just that Hickey nauseates me, and the actor's face is so iconic, I doubt I'll ever be able to separate him from the character.

[islandgal140]

This island they are stuck on is so damn forbidding and unyielding.  Just nothing but beige rocks. It makes me almost miss the scenes on the ice locked ships. 

The Inuit mentioned fishing to make up for the loss of game. The crew always speak of sending out hunting parties for food, I wonder if that includes trying to fish? It doesn't appear to and I wonder why. 

Also, what are they doing for fresh water? A person can go a few weeks without food, but water is another story altogether. 

22 hours ago, maystone said:

His name was Hartnell. If I remember correctly, that was also the name of the young man who fell from the rigging and drowned early on. The one whose corpse Collins saw floating around when he was in the diving suit trying to fix the blades.

How ironic that that poor young man would be one of the lucky ones. 

When it comes to Hickey, I am at Game of Thrones Joffrey levels of hate. His demise better be good and incredibly painful! 

The actor playing Bridgens has such a kind face with soulful eyes. The Harry/Bridgens relationship really has me curious. At times it seems father/son like or mentor/mentee with incredible fondness but every once and again I catch a glimpse of something deeper. Whatever the case, it is beautiful!

Edited May 16, 2018 by islandgal140

[jnymph]

55 minutes ago, Sighed I said:

I will be virtually joining you tonight, alcohol included. ;) I couldn't bear watching the episode twice on broadcast night as per usual, it was so heartbreaking, but it's so good I have to see it again.

 

Cool.  At least it'll be easier to withstand, knowing I have a virtual "shipmate" out there.   ; 0      I'll post later on.   May need the evening to recover from the trauma.   LOL 

It's supposed to be a dark, stormy evening here in Florida, so the ambiance will be fitting.

ETA:  Just realized my last statement ....Florida vs the Arctic ....makes no sense whatsoever.   Oh well. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by jnymph

[SoSueMe]

The title of this episode convinces me that Harry/Bridgens was a symbolic father/son relationship. Not that it really matters, since @islandgal140 is absolutely correct, it was beautiful. It just made me think of the gaudy and beautiful macaroni necklace my son made me years ago.

[slothgirl]

6 minutes ago, SoSueMe said:

The title of this episode convinces me that Harry/Bridgens was a symbolic father/son relationship. Not that it really matters, since @islandgal140 is absolutely correct, it was beautiful. It just made me think of the gaudy and beautiful macaroni necklace my son made me years ago.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who didn't get a sexual vibe from their love. I have nothing against gay characters and story-lines, but I also love when deep, non-sexual/romantic love is shown between men. The true depth of friendship is so rarely explored amidst the over-sexualized context of entertainment in general these days.

Gawd... I sound like my mother!

(and you kids get off my lawn!)

13 minutes ago, jnymph said:

ETA:  Just realized my last statement ....Florida vs the Arctic ....makes no sense whatsoever.   Oh well. 

Tuunbaq is no match for a giant flying cockroach from the south, so....

(grew up in SC, where they are euphemistically called "palmetto beetles". No.. they are giant flying roaches that rearrange the furniture when you go away for the weekend, and I'd rather face down Tuunbaq any day!)

[tennisgurl]

I think what really gets me is that they were actually so close to finding the Northwest Passage. Blankey found it after only a few days of wandering, and he died just as he found it. That somehow just makes it even worse. Not that it would have saved them or anything, but it would have been Even if they saw how close they were. Or maybe that it would have hurt even more. 

"What in the name of God took you so fucking long?" I guess if your going to go out being eaten by a giant man eating ice monster, you might have well go out with some badass last words. 

[Fellaway]

4 hours ago, Sighed I said:

The show, if renewed, is intended to be an anthology series, with a new story and cast each season.

According to this, it has been.  I really hope they include some of these same actors in the next season.  They're amazing.

[Sighed I]

4 hours ago, zobot81 said:

How am I missing so many details??

...I think I need to re-watch the entire season with CC turned on.   -__-

I watched it with CC starting about halfway through the first episode. It helped a lot in following along and keeping the characters straight. I think you'll notice a difference.

4 hours ago, Hybiscus said:

I should clarify myself because that statement sounds pretty harsth and personal.  I have nothing against the actor or his talent.  It's just that Hickey nauseates me, and the actor's face is so iconic, I doubt I'll ever be able to separate him from the character.

I know what you mean. I really enjoyed the character initially. I especially loved his scene with Lt. Irving when the officer was lecturing him on "improving" himself--"Climbing, sir?" LOL! But now just the sight of him makes me grit my teeth. It's hard enough watching characters I love suffering and dying; watching his sadistic superiority in the midst of all this misery is driving me nuts. Grrrr.

I think about the only thing which might help is if he played a very different character in a very different time period, like modern or maybe futuristic. And he'd have to change his look too. And even with all that, it may take me a few years. Sorry, Adam; you may have made yourself a little too iconic in this role.

54 minutes ago, Fellaway said:

According to this, it has been.  I really hope they include some of these same actors in the next season.  They're amazing.

Woo hoo! That's great news. I agree on the casting; I would LOVE to see many of these same actors back. <3

Edited May 15, 2018 by Sighed I

[Fellaway]

I was mopping my kitchen floor earlier and thinking about The Terror, as you do, and was wondering, at this point, if Hickey even wants to get back to civilization anymore.  He seemed to be really glorying in himself in this episode, not to mention the whole one-with-the-land postures.