S03.E08: A Jury of Their Queers

[annewithaneee]

12 minutes ago, BarneySays said:

I think this is absurd.  I would bet that most of the most popular alum from this show are queens of color:  bob, latrice, bebe, jujubee, ongina, bianca, adore, chichi, the list goes on.  in this season alone, three of the final four were black.  kennedy simply has not demonstrated that she has the "it" factor.  That has nothing to do with her race, but all to do with her dour personality, whining, and one-note old school drag.  There has never been a dearth of drag queens of color with huge fan bases.  Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...

I could get in the weeds about how my statement about black queens was countered with generalizations about all non-white queens, but whatever. It factor is subjective. Kennedy has proven that she can excel at improv, acting, and dancing across her two seasons. What is “one note” on her runway presentation is an aesthetic/brand for Trixie. What is dour and whiny on her made some fans worship Pearl. Sometimes a cigar is a dog whistle.

[niklj]

"Wrecking Ball"????

Really???

[Couver]

BULLSHIT! I like all the top 4 a lot but this result reeked of WOW interference.

Trixie is a talented queen but I don't think she did all star level work on this season. Alaska's win was obvious but I will say she killed it in almost every challenge with just one hiccup. And she did it against stronger competition. Trixie turned things around a week and a half before the end and poof she wins? It makes me wonder if Ben really wanted to quit or was asked and I hate having conspiracy theories like that.

If we're including their outside success as part of their eligibility then Shangela absolutely deserved the crown.

I didn't hate the season because I liked the cast (with the exception of Thory and Milk after I saw how bitter they were). But this was an anticlimactic ending.

To briefly address the racism issue. I don't think the popularity of queens of colour disproves what Aja said. You only need to see the posts left on black queens' social media accounts to know they get attacked on a whole other level different than a lot of white queens. People loving Bob doesn't invalidate that Kennedy, Jasmine, and Nina to name just a few receive constant racist messages on their twitters, IGs etc. Black queens also seem to be attacked far more for fans perceived ideas that they are coming for a fishy white queen. See Jasmine/Pearl. Kennedy getting attacked for eliminating Katya, and Nina & Valentina. Nina gets the most hate from Valentina's fans even though several queens came for her at the renunion including Farrah Moan who actually gets little to no hate from Valentina fans. IMO Kennedy is correct and there is clear evidence of this issue in the Drag Race online community. If the issue were her or another queens personality why do people attack them with the N word and other racial slurs? Shouldn't they be critiquing their personality etc if race isn't a factor?  

[niklj]

Oh, forgot to add one more thing:

"Winner winner, chicken....dinner."

[dyanad]

You can't really use the racism analogy, it's a strawman argument. Kennedy is not liked specifically because of how she comes across (you can argue if that is editing or not). She oozes her dower personality. I don't think Kennedy is a bad queen, but she just falls short of that "it" factor. She knew she should have been gone long ago, but tried to justify her staying that Drag Race wasn't about who excelled...but who endured.  She got angry at Milk and said he "read my drag for filth" and "fuck my drag, right"? when that wasn't what Milk said at all. Milk was an ahole, but was just saying he would have picked Thorgy to stay because he thought Thorgy might have some more unique out the box ideas compared to Kennedy...and Kennedy went ballistic about it. I am not a fan of Kennedy's because of her race, I am not a fan because of her personality period. Just my 2 (worthless) cents. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by dyanad

[CaioF]

No doubt that unfortunatelly there are still too many racist people there and they manifest they hate alot online, so I dont question this/the fact that black queens get extra hate because of racism. But, we are talking about the competition itself..  Should we/the queens have these racist people as reference and put someone in the top 2 because of the attacks she gets online? This is not the right way to treat the issue... Talk about it, talk about how shamefull it is, try to creat some self awareness on people. They just did the opposite, they poked the hate spot on these people! These queens should know better. If they really made that decision (if wasnt producers script), they screwed even more with the season, Shangela and Kennedy that once again will have to deal with the hate towards her and racist people having her as a target.

Edited March 16, 2018 by CaioF

[Fiero425]

15 minutes ago, dyanad said:

You can't really use the racism analogy, it's a strawman argument. Kennedy is not liked specifically because of how she comes across (you can argue if that is editing or not). She oozes her dower personality. I don't think Kennedy is a bad queen, but she just falls short of that "it" factor. She knew she should have been gone long ago, but tried to justify her staying that Drag Race wasn't about who excelled...but who endured.  She got angry at Milk and said he "read my drag for filth" and "fuck my drag, right"? when that wasn't what Milk said at all. Milk was an ahole, but was just saying he would have picked Thorgy to stay because he thought Thorgy might have some more unique out the box ideas compared to Kennedy...and Kennedy went ballistic about it. I am not a fan of Kennedy's because of her race, I am not a fan because of her personality period. Just my 2 (worthless) cents. 

But why? What purpose or benefit would Milk get by saying such a thing in front of the person being DISSED? I was a MILK fan until he really did come across badly; so full of herself! A little confidence goes a long way; he went overboard! WTF was she crying about; being called an A-Hole for the most part? It's either being a b!tch or Milk's delusional and is medicated! ;-)

[Glade]

I don't get it...how did Trixie supposedly 'need' this more then Shangela?  Trixie has her own  show, independently of Katya even since the latter is on a break and Trixie is still there.  Personally, I didn't see any breakout moment where Trixie became versatile and started shining--that's really fiction, she was lackluster.  So was Kennedy.  I don't like her drag, I don't find her exciting, I don't enjoy her personality, and it isn't because she's black.  Shangela winning would have been a story, a symbol, a real triumph, not Trixie basically winning the lottery. 

The three hall of fame winners look so similar when their portraits are lined up, it's ridiculous and each time it's been infuriating but this time it's just a joke.  So I guess even if Bendela hadn't gone home, she might have been kept out of the top 2 for some fucked up combo of pity and????  Fuck all stars.

[Fiero425]

4 minutes ago, Glade said:

I don't get it...how did Trixie supposedly 'need' this more then Shangela?  Trixie has her own  show, independently of Katya even since the latter is on a break and Trixie is still there.  Personally, I didn't see any breakout moment where Trixie became versatile and started shining--that's really fiction, she was lackluster.  So was Kennedy.  I don't like her drag, I don't find her exciting, I don't enjoy her personality, and it isn't because she's black.  Shangela winning would have been a story, a symbol, a real triumph, not Trixie basically winning the lottery. 

The three hall of fame winners look so similar when their portraits are lined up, it's ridiculous and each time it's been infuriating but this time it's just a joke.  So I guess even if Bendela hadn't gone home, she might have been kept out of the top 2 for some fucked up combo of pity and????  Fuck all stars.

The script needs a rewrite; at least the finale! That was bush! What's Ru running from by giving the queens the power to sabotage the contest; the best not necessarily even making the finale! ;-)

[Delete]

My heart broke for Shangie. Always the bridesmaid, never the bride. She deserved that crown.

 

I'm pissed. What is the point of having a panel of judges if they don't judge?

Signed,

No longer a Ru Drag race fan. 

[rustyspigot]

Oh, I forgot when Ben (who shouldn't have been there) started and basically ended with "Well statistically speaking...". Shut up Ben. You aren't helping the entertainment of the season with a statistics tutorial.

[Delete]

3 hours ago, JayD83 said:

I have not been this mad at a TV show since ALL MY CHILDREN and ONE LIFE TO LIVE were canceled!  

LMAO!

[dyanad]

16 minutes ago, Fiero425 said:

But why? What purpose or benefit would Milk get by saying such a thing in front of the person being DISSED? I was a MILK fan until he really did come across badly; so full of herself! A little confidence goes a long way; he went overboard! WTF was she crying about; being called an A-Hole for the most part? It's either being a b!tch or Milk's delusional and is medicated! ;-)

I was a Milk fan too, but he lost me during All Stars, like you. I was just using that as an example of how hypersensitive Kennedy seems to be. Unless she is getting mad praise, she gets angry. I also don't think in that conversation Milk was being douchey. Everyone was trying to calm Kennedy down after being in the bottom and Milk just gave his opinion that if it was his choice, he would have gone with Thorgy and why. I don't think it was meant to be "mean" per sey.

[Fiero425]

21 minutes ago, Ravenna said:

My heart broke for Shangie. Always the bridesmaid, never the bride. She deserved that crown.

 

I'm pissed. What is the point of having a panel of judges if they don't judge?

Signed,

No longer a Ru Drag race fan. 

Isn't it always the way; runner-ups do so much better in my experience! From "Top Chef" to "Hell's Kitchen," winning means little! Clay Aikens did bigger and better things than Reuben Studdard who won "American Idol!" Shangela will be fine! ;-)

[Delete]

4 minutes ago, Mayberry said:

This is some literal bull. I'm gagging.

Never thought this season would I:

Hate Milk. 

Hate Thorgy even more than I did. (Hate is a strong word, I know ;P )

Lose my faith in Ben De La Christ.

Root for Shangela. Then have that love thrown back in my face right at the last second.

Like Kennedy and feel for him. Then roll my eyes at him making Top 2.

Be bored with the final Lip Sync for a Season Finale.

Go "Meh" when the winner was announced. Like I'd just been played, as if it wasn't the Drag Race competition, but an extended ad for Trixie's show the whole time.

 

Well said, and perfect choice of gif

Thorgy is an ugly person -- inside, and out. 

[film noire]

4 hours ago, CheetaraThunder said:

Rupaul and producers found a way to not only fuck over the queens ( all these fucking twists) but the show itself.

And fucked over the spirit of drag itself -- I know that's a (seemingly) melodramatic statement, but I think it's true. The moral compass of drag (and it has one, at least for me) is that no matter what a brutally unfair and quixotic world does to you -- demean you, deny you, label you crazy and rejectable and other and worthless -- all of that falls away when you step on stage, where your talent cannot be denied. That moment trumps those judgements of you; it's validation of you as a person, an artist,  and the art form.

But tonight, Ru let a bunch of bitter, jealous queens turn this into a mercy tuck. 

Pfft.

3 hours ago, Couver said:

But this was an anticlimactic ending.

Yes, it was -- and that last lip sync was an embarassment, It should have been redone, refilmed (or thrown out altogether). It was dull, uninspired and lacking in any style and polish.  It was like watching two cool moms pull off a wacky fundraiser for the PTA --- yes, the crowd stands and applauds (because hey, Jenny's Mom can sorta dance!) -- but it's not the real thing, it's not the heart and soul of drag, it's just  an imitation of what the best can do. (Speaking of which; somewhere tonight,  Tati and Alyssa smiled & ordered another round of drinks for each other as "Shut up and Drive" played on the jukebox).

And Thorgy, I've disliked your bitter little soul for quite awhile, but damn if you weren't the only honest queen tonight,  getting past being voted off and voting for TRW (The Real Winner) Shangie. Props to you for that. You deserve a round of applause for rewarding talent & not indulging your own rage at being cut, and then hiding behind some bullshit Oprahesque justification for screwing over the biggest talent left standing, Shangela (her showgirl smile intact & her mane of hair flying throughout that vid -- and she went out with style, not something I ever would have predicted, years ago -- somehow, Shangela turned into my Tin Man and I never saw it coming. And Shangela? Take comfort in knowing that even if winter came tonight, we all know YOU WERE ROBBED).

Edited March 16, 2018 by film noire

[BloggerAloud]

Thorgy being the only vote for Shangela actually makes me respect her a lot given the fact she wasn't as swayed by the emotions of it all and went with a more "Well, bitch you did well in the competition." 

The whole thing was underwhelming because I think, as a fandom, we could've all accepted a Trixie win if she beat Shangela in a top 2 lip sync. Not having Trixie battling Shangela makes her victory all the more "meh" and I say that as a huge Trixie fan.

[BarneySays]

1 hour ago, annewithaneee said:

It factor is subjective.

Nah.  It's an inchoate quality that is generally recognized by the public.  The concept of "it" factor is that it transcends subjectivity.  Julia Roberts, for example, has it (although it has waned with age).  Not a great actress, but the camera loves her,  The many singing competitions are a good example- many lovely voices, but most don't have that special something that makes them stand out from the crowd of lovely singers.   And their careers reflect that fact.  This doesn't mean they don't have fans, but just that they lack that special appeal. 

[BloggerAloud]

To paraphrase from the great Jasmine Masters, All Stars 3 has fucked up drag.

[Richard]

This show isn't as fun when it's not fair. 

[Fiero425]

1 hour ago, Mayberry said:

At least Clay Aiken made the Top Two!

I actually really liked Thorgy when she first showed up. But she continued to sabotage herself. And my love...

Jennifer Hudson and a few others on "AI" who were eliminated earlier wound up more famous than the runner-ups or winners! ;-)

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Well, that was fucking ridiculous. The fact that these bitter queens didn't vote for Shangela to be one of the top two is just further proof as to why this stupid voting system on All Stars does not work.

I'm sorry, girls, but this isn't RuPaul's Charity Race. This isn't about who you think needs to win. It's about who is THE BEST. If you look at the performances of the top four throughout the course of the season, there is no way in hell you can convince me that Kennedy was one of the top two.

6 hours ago, 2727 said:

Someone at Aja's viewing party said Aja (purportedly) told everyone she voted for Trixie and Kennedy. She said Kennedy had given the best interview answers by far and she felt that Shangela would be successful no matter what. So hers was a bit of a sympathy/solidarity vote for Kennedy.

 

6 hours ago, CheetaraThunder said:

Some t from Aja’s viewing:

Aja picked Kennedy and Trixie

Said Kennedy gave he best interview by far

Talked about how Kennedy has to deal with a lot of racist fans from the show and picked her over Shangela because she needed it more and Shangela is already successful without the crown.

So how does Aja justify voting for Trixie since she is already successful without the crown?

[CheetaraThunder]

Looking at Ben and Chi Chi, they looked like they didn’t even want to be there, like thinking “stop bringing us back” kind of shit.

 

Also, blame the producers for all these fucking rules. Ben was right when it should have been Rupaul deciding who goes home all season...shit, we could have had Benvs Shangela if they did regular season rules.

A review summed it up perfectly:

 

Quote

It’s at that point when I realised All Stars 3 was a mistake. Not because of the queens, every queen in the cut is absolutely amazing and deserves endless praise and higher booking fees. No, it’s a mistake because it was done so soon that the producers were desperate to manufacture drama to justify it and that’s exactly what this setup does. The show stopped being about the All Stars actually being stars and showing off what they can do from the second they finished the main challenge, the rest of the episode is a typical shitty reality show where feuds and bitter rivalries are what matters

Edited March 16, 2018 by CheetaraThunder

[Aging Goth]

There were 6 kinds of wrong with the outcome. Why waste the time with competitions if you are not going to choose the most deserving queen.. Why work that hard to win if you don't have a snowball's chance in the neither regions of Hell in winning. It was set up for Trixie to win from the start. I'll just watch the competitions and pass on the finales. Just not worth it if the fan favorite is always going to be the winner; no matter what.  If this is how it's going to be in the future with  both All Stars and the Regular RPDR competitions, then the queens really do not need to really try to compete as it appears to be predetermined who is going to win in the end

Edited March 16, 2018 by Aging Goth
spelling errors

[vixenbynight]

1 hour ago, CheetaraThunder said:

Also, blame the producers for all these fucking rules.

Agreed. To say I was utterly disappointed will be an understatement. I was as shocked as Shangela, BeBe, Kennedy AND Trixie were on the main stage. 

The eliminated queens having the deciding vote in choosing the final two?!

Big Mistake.

[Cosmic Muffin]

But none of us are upset that Bebe got (I think) one vote? I mean, I'm not, but it's funny I haven't seen any posts saying she deserved more.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

9 hours ago, Corgi-ears said:

How the queens voted, a segment the show thought wasn't worth including in the actual episode:

 

Edited to add the info, for those who would rather not click play:

Aja: 1. Kennedy 2. Trixie

Ben: 1. Kennedy 2. Trixie

Chi Chi: 1. Kennedy 2. Trixie

Milk: 1. Trixie 2. Kennedy

Morgan: 1. Bebe 2. Kennedy

Thorgy: 1. Trixie 2. Shangela

Which gives Kennedy 8 points, Trixie 7, Bebe 2, and Shangela 1 giant shaft.

I'm confused by the points at the bottom which somehow add up to 18. Doesn't each vote count as one point? That would mean:

Kennedy - 5 points
Trixie - 5 points
Shangela - 1 point
Bebe - 1 point

[Corgi-ears]

11 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I'm confused by the points at the bottom which somehow add up to 18. Doesn't each vote count as one point? That would mean:

No. As the video explains, a first place vote is 2 points, and a second place vote worth 1. So there were 6 x 2 + 6 x 1 = 18 points up for grabs. 

[Aging Goth]

To me, it looked like there was a concerted effort to eliminate Shangela from the top two.  if they were being fair, Shangela should have gotten more points.  For Trixie to win a lip sync over Shangela, she would have had to work super hard but against Kennedy, well that was a massacre to say the least.

[Ruby Gillis]

7 hours ago, film noire said:

And fucked over the spirit of drag itself -- I know that's a (seemingly) melodramatic statement, but I think it's true. The moral compass of drag (and it has one, at least for me) is that no matter what a brutally unfair and quixotic world does to you -- demean you, deny you, label you crazy and rejectable and other and worthless -- all of that falls away when you step on stage, where your talent cannot be denied. That moment trumps those judgements of you; it's validation of you as a person, an artist,  and the art form.

 tonight, Ru let a bunch of bitter, jealous queens turn this into a mercy tuck. 

I don’t know if that was necessarily the case. Most of the queens only saw Kennedy’s performance in the first few episodes when she was pretty strong.

Also, Kennedy’s live performances off the show are said to be amazing so that might have factored in even subconsciously. She has a grumpy grandpa personality which isn’t TV friendly. In this case, the queens might have actually been voting for the live drag experience over the glossy Rupaul version.

I actually enjoyed the season despite some boring episodes. Drag Race has always been uneven with baffling decisions-season 1 Rebecca, Tyra winning, Pearl winning multiple lip syncs, all of All Stars 1.  

Has there ever been a good final lip sync? Not including the live finales. Season 1 was probably the best.

[dolphincorn]

I'm upset that there has never been a straight winner.

[ClareWalks]

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I'm sorry, girls, but this isn't RuPaul's Charity Race. This isn't about who you think needs to win. It's about who is THE BEST.

YES. I was like "what the actual FUCK" at that reasoning. Although I said the slightly less clever "this is not RuPaul's Who Needs It More Race!"

I was Team Trixie and Team Shangela, didn't care which won. Glad Trixie won but I was gagged in a bad way that Shangela didn't get top 2. I think RuPaul was, too. Ru was obviously not gonna crown Kennedy. I love Kennedy as a person. She is so real and seems to have a warm heart. Her drag is pretty old-school but she can pull off moments of total genius like The Bitchelor. But it's hard to really tell who Kennedy is as a performer because she is so hit or miss. Like, she was good in The Bitchelor and bad in the Snatch Game, but before she was good at the Snatch Game, and she is a great dancer but bad with choreographed dance, and I'm just not sure what to think of her drag in general at this point. Bebe is compelling to watch and gives great face but not a phenomenal all-around performer. The show has evolved to reward acting talent and she doesn't have any.

Trixie and Shangela both had the goods to be in the HOF. Once Shangela was out of the top 2 Ru obviously had to give it to Trixie. I hated that the eliminated queens got to pick the top 2. WTF. I understand why ChiChi would choose Kennedy over Shangela, but not the rest of them. Are they really still bitter about being sent home? Makes me wish Dela had won more lipsynchs against Shangela so Shangie's reputation could have remained intact.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, Corgi-ears said:

No. As the video explains, a first place vote is 2 points, and a second place vote worth 1. So there were 6 x 2 + 6 x 1 = 18 points up for grabs. 

Thanks for explaining. I didn't watch the video. I just looked at the list of who voted for whom.

[HunterHunted]

14 hours ago, BarneySays said:

I think this is absurd.  I would bet that most of the most popular alum from this show are queens of color:  bob, latrice, bebe, jujubee, ongina, bianca, adore, chichi, the list goes on.  in this season alone, three of the final four were black.  kennedy simply has not demonstrated that she has the "it" factor.  That has nothing to do with her race, but all to do with her dour personality, whining, and one-note old school drag.  There has never been a dearth of drag queens of color with huge fan bases.  Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...

I'm going to disagree with you because some of the other queens have commented on how badly Black queens are treated by the fans. When Kennedy beat Katya in a lip sync to "Roar" in the their original season, 7, Kennedy got death threats. Katya has even talked about how messed up it was. Furthermore, the fact that the somnambulist anti-talent whose name is Pearl got anywhere near the finals and still has a hopping drag career is testament enough on how biased the fandom is. Kennedy might have a dour personality and a chip on her shoulder, but there are a bunch of other queens with really stank personalities and no one ever says shit about how awful they are. Every half obnoxious thing Tyra does manages to make the news. Meanwhile Thorgy can assault another queen and it's barely whispered about. Willam is still doing and saying impossibly stupid shit, but none of it ever seems to stick to the Teflon queen. Acid Betty can be awful and fans have amnesia when it comes to her entitled attitude. Laganja was obnoxious, annoying, and really whiny. She's never been without work nor does that label seem to follow her. Furthermore, there have been many one note white queens whose drag style is never really critiqued by fans--Miss Fame, Farrah Moan, Max. Kennedy may not have the most fun personality, but she's excelled at many different types of challenges on this show and puts on a kick ass high energy show. How is that one note?

Additionally, many writers have written about Drag Race's race problem.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/sapov/ru-paulas-drag-race-you-have-a-race-problem-2zfch?utm_term=.ehr9oqXqJ#.yczKJb9b6

https://www.pride.com/firstperson/2016/4/07/no-matter-how-much-you-rupauls-drag-race-its-still-problematic

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/kat-blaque/performative-blackness-an_b_9545212.html

https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/02/rupauls-drag-race-queens-see-racism-in-show-treatment-and-fan-love.html

https://www.pride.com/firstperson/2017/6/29/we-still-need-talk-about-how-drag-race-treated-nina-bonina-brown

13 hours ago, Couver said:

To briefly address the racism issue. I don't think the popularity of queens of colour disproves what Aja said. You only need to see the posts left on black queens' social media accounts to know they get attacked on a whole other level different than a lot of white queens. People loving Bob doesn't invalidate that Kennedy, Jasmine, and Nina to name just a few receive constant racist messages on their twitters, IGs etc. Black queens also seem to be attacked far more for fans perceived ideas that they are coming for a fishy white queen. See Jasmine/Pearl. Kennedy getting attacked for eliminating Katya, and Nina & Valentina. Nina gets the most hate from Valentina's fans even though several queens came for her at the renunion including Farrah Moan who actually gets little to no hate from Valentina fans. IMO Kennedy is correct and there is clear evidence of this issue in the Drag Race online community. If the issue were her or another queens personality why do people attack them with the N word and other racial slurs? Shouldn't they be critiquing their personality etc if race isn't a factor?  

This! The Nina hate is ridiculous because Valentina objectively whiffed that lip sync. And even ignoring Valentina's "performance", Nina actually put actual effort into her lip sync so that even if Valentina had known the words, she still would have lost. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by HunterHunted

[Corgi-ears]

10 hours ago, niklj said:

"Wrecking Ball"????

Really???

I took this as the show's stealthy way to give Trixie a leg up in the lip synch, in that (a) it is a country-adjacent song, and (b) it is too slow for Kennedy to, well, kick her legs up.

[Couver]

2 hours ago, Ruby Gillis said:

I don’t know if that was necessarily the case. Most of the queens only saw Kennedy’s performance in the first few episodes when she was pretty strong.

Also, Kennedy’s live performances off the show are said to be amazing so that might have factored in even subconsciously. She has a grumpy grandpa personality which isn’t TV friendly. In this case, the queens might have actually been voting for the live drag experience over the glossy Rupaul version.

I actually enjoyed the season despite some boring episodes. Drag Race has always been uneven with baffling decisions-season 1 Rebecca, Tyra winning, Pearl winning multiple lip syncs, all of All Stars 1.  

Has there ever been a good final lip sync? Not including the live finales. Season 1 was probably the best.

The Jury of their Queers also played to Kennedy's strengths. She is a pageant queen. I believe she's won several and has competed for years. She even said she was approaching the jury as if they were a pageant panel. I think she was at ease with that format and it came through. Thorgy said as much. I don't think she needed to beg. I think she just made her point better than the other 3.

The Jury concept was the issue. I love Kennedy but agree that she shouldn't have been in the top 2 over Shangela. But this format played to her strength. My guess is had Ben remained he would have been knocked out at this stage which would have been equally tragic.

I guess Ru wanted the jury for the gag but it turned into a lame one IMO because of the result.

I wonder what would have happened if they included this in AS2. My guess is Alaska would not have made that final 2. So again it seems like the show pulls some very obvious strings to get their winner.

[BarneySays]

56 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I'm going to disagree with you because some of the other queens have commented on how badly Black queens are treated by the fans. When Kennedy beat Katya in a lip sync to "Roar" in the their original season, 7, Kennedy got death threats. Katya has even talked about how messed up it was. Furthermore, the fact that the somnambulist anti-talent whose name is Pearl got anywhere near the finals and still has a hopping drag career is testament enough on how biased the fandom is. Kennedy might have a dour personality and a chip on her shoulder, but there are a bunch of other queens with really stank personalities and no one ever says shit about how awful they are.

Are there horrible people on the internet?  Hell, yes.  Can they be ugly and unhinged and racist?  Yes.  None of what you write rationally supports a claim that kennedy's lack of popularity is per se racist.  I would bet that some people don't like her for racist reasons.  And that is wrong.  But for the claim that kennedy is not popular due to racism (and not anything to do with her drag or public persona) is undermined by the fact that many other black queens are extremely popular.  And citing the fact that some queens who may have the same flaws (for want of a better word) as kennedy have fans is meaningless.  I am sure kennedy too has fans (some comment in these threads).  It's hard to argue that no one approaches kennedy on these tours because of racism when they're flocking around bob or latrice or chichi, etc.  

 

To be clear, I am not dismissing the role of racism in kennedy's life (this is an assumption since I do not know her).  But racism is not the reason for her unpopularity.  I would add that the patronizing attitude her fellow queens took towards her- poor kennedy, she really needs a boost even if undeserving- insults her.   Worse yet, it betrays that they felt that she could not (or did not) earn it on her talents.  Unless they should be accused of racism, too.  

[DisneyBoy]

I really don't see what the point was of Bebe not revealing who she voted for. Couldn't she read the room and tell that they were all against her anyways? I guess that's maybe why she decided not to bother. It wouldn't have won her any fans.

Milk seemed completely tone-deaf to his own performance in the challenges but I find Bebe just as bad. She was embarrassing in the video.

And speaking of the video, I didn't expect much from it and then Shangela came out roaring like a lion and made me smile. Her verse was perfect and actually got me excited for the others. I don't even remember what Trixie said. Except that she named-dropped Shangela. And all of Bebe's kitty purring was pathetic. Way to be literal.  I think the blame lies with the judge who rewarded her similar performance earlier in the season. She walked the runway in a cheap Golden Age Cheetah costume. Even Alex Ross would have looked at that with some disdain.

Aja and Shangela came out looking the best of the bunch (after Dela), though there's one other person I really have to give credit to...

 

Quote

I'm so white I'm see through, but did anyone else think her hat/headpiece looked like a Coming to America-style vaguely tribal ripoff? Not a fan of what seems to be casual and thoughtless and unattractive appropriation

... I can't really speak to that, other than to say I was really impressed by her outfit. The colors were great and I thought she looked wonderful. I don't understand why there's so much hate for Thorgy. I'm not saying she's the most talented queen of the bunch, and I definitely I'm sick and tired of hearing about her Thorchestra (tour dates to be announced...soon?) but she often gave voice to my thoughts. Her pageant wave when Ben de La Creme bowed out of the competition was exactly what I was thinking too. And I love that she called out Bebe on the stupidity of not sharing her vote when everyone else was biting the bullet and doing it and dealing with the consequences. Thorgy may be a weirdo but she's exactly the kind of person I'm interested in seeing on the show like this.

I hope at some point Shangela does a video lip sync of Wrecking Ball in that costume so I could see what she would have done on the main stage. I'm betting there would have been a better reveal then what Trixie gave us.

 

The highlight of the season was seeing her in that fat suit last week shaking it with so much joy.

The queens seem to view this All Stars thing as a purely business transaction. There's no point to doing these anymore.

[MaryWebGirl]

I was spoiled from the beginning as far as Ben dropping out and Trixie winning (although I think I had heard it was between Trixie and Bebe), so I wasn't totally shocked. It was also anti-climatic to see Ben slay so much knowing she wasn't going to win. I do wonder what would have happened if Ben had stuck around. I think Trixie has been set up as the winner from the beginning due to her mainstream success plus being a World of Wonder darling, but that would have been a harder sale against Ben being so dominant throughout the season.

Edited March 16, 2018 by MaryWebGirl

[buttercupia]

all I can say is RIGGER MORRIS!!

[annewithaneee]

1 hour ago, Couver said:

3 hours ago, Ruby Gillis said:

I don’t know if that was necessarily the case. Most of the queens only saw Kennedy’s performance in the first few episodes when she was pretty strong.

Also, Kennedy’s live performances off the show are said to be amazing so that might have factored in even subconsciously. She has a grumpy grandpa personality which isn’t TV friendly. In this case, the queens might have actually been voting for the live drag experience over the glossy Rupaul version.

I actually enjoyed the season despite some boring episodes. Drag Race has always been uneven with baffling decisions-season 1 Rebecca, Tyra winning, Pearl winning multiple lip syncs, all of All Stars 1.  

Has there ever been a good final lip sync? Not including the live finales. Season 1 was probably the best.

The Jury of their Queers also played to Kennedy's strengths. She is a pageant queen. I believe she's won several and has competed for years. She even said she was approaching the jury as if they were a pageant panel. I think she was at ease with that format and it came through. Thorgy said as much. I don't think she needed to beg. I think she just made her point better than the other 3.

The Jury concept was the issue. I love Kennedy but agree that she shouldn't have been in the top 2 over Shangela. But this format played to her strength. My guess is had Ben remained he would have been knocked out at this stage which would have been equally tragic.

I guess Ru wanted the jury for the gag but it turned into a lame one IMO because of the result.

I wonder what would have happened if they included this in AS2. My guess is Alaska would not have made that final 2. So again it seems like the show pulls some very obvious strings to get their winner.

What was weird was after a season of essentially all of those eliminated queens rolling their eyes at Dela's perpetual Miss Congeniality, they all did the same damn thing by not voting based off of performance but what they deemed would make them look the most compassionate/charitable. 

But, it's still the show's fault, I think. If you look at shows that have jury votes - Survivor and Big Brother being the most prominent US examples - the jury interview is a part of the game. But both of those games are consistently about how you convince others of your cause: its a mixture of physical and social game. That's not what a talent competition reality show is. The show should never have given them that role, because it fundamentally changes what it means to be good enough to win Drag Race. I guess it's not necessarily the queens' bad for considering who presented the most compelling case according to a completely subjective individual rubric. That's the show's big fuck-up. 

And I've only been exposed to drag pageants from a couple documentaries so I have no idea how the system works, but I have a feeling they have much tighter standards than this bullshit too: that interview is a weighted score and combined with other elements of the competition (talent, runway, etc), and that the judges are given a few different measures to judge against during the interview.

This was just idiotic hubris on production's side. You can't make ANTM/Project Runway and Survivor mix. They're two very different beasts.

Also, I think in AS2 it would have come down to Alaska and Katya anyway. Since their final four was Katya vs Rolaskatoxxx...there was a palpable fear from the other queens of pissing off the Katya fandom, and even though Alaska did make a couple absolutely BS elimination decisions, I'm not sure any of them would have wanted Detox or Roxxxy instead, and Alaska had the track record.

[film noire]

Aja would change her vote:

 

Edited March 16, 2018 by film noire

[CaioF]

2 minutes ago, film noire said:

Aja would change her vote (and yeah, it was a sob story they vote on, not talent/track record):

 

 

Well, Aja proved more than once that shes not the smartest queen (even being her downfall on not get what the challenges were really about). Her post only confirms that. The others tho..

[HunterHunted]

@BarneySays no one said that the sole reason Kennedy isn't as successful as her white peers is because of racism. We're just saying that there is a substantial bit of bigotry in the Drag Race fandom that prompts some viewers to over penalize Black queens for failings that white queens have in equal measure and keeps these viewers from recognizing the skills and talents of Black queens. When people are issuing death threats to Black queens and littering their social media with racial invective, one has to acknowledge that racism and bigotry are indeed impacting their careers. And frankly that is very demoralizing.

Here you have a gay man of color. His sexuality makes him minority in mainstream society. His race makes him a minority in mainstream society. His choice to do drag makes him a minority in the gay community. And here in his safe space, he's met with bigotry and racism by people who are allegedly part of his community and fans of the drag art form.

Furthermore who is that compartmentalized that they can spout racist bullshit online, but have no problems showing up to one of Kennedy's shows or a meet and greet. Or stipulate "no fats, no femme, no asians" but want to see Kim Chi or Peppermint perform. It doesn't happen. I say this as a Black woman that I've seen some real cognitive dissonance in my life, but I'm doubtful that some of the same racism Kennedy experiences online doesn't translate into a reduced number of fans. Additionally some of the white queens confirm witnesing fan biogtry directed to Black queens.

Kennedy has implied that bigotry has negatively impacted her career. Other queens, fans, and journalists have provided their experiences that seem to confirm this allegation. None of them are saying that racism is the only reason why Kennedy's career isn't in the same position as her white peers. They are just saying that it has had an impact. 

FYI Chi Chi also got racist epithets and threats of violence when she knocked Thorgy out of season 8. 

[Aging Goth]

9 minutes ago, CaioF said:

Well, Aja proved more than once that shes not the smartest queen (even being her downfall on not get what the challenges were really about). Her post only confirms that. The others tho..

Were vindictive as heck.  Thorgy cannot ever let anything go which surprised me that she was the only one who voted for Shangela.  The others seemed to purposely avoid choosing Shangela which I wonder was producer driven.  It otherwise doesn't make any sense to not vote Shangie into the top two.  That is why it felt rigged for Trixie to win just like it felt very contrived last season for Alaska to win. 

[BloggerAloud]

Trixie Mattel is the first queen since Tyra Sanchez to really do horrible during Snatch Game and still end up winning her season.

[Aging Goth]

2 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

@BarneySays no one said that the sole reason Kennedy isn't as successful as her white peers is because of racism. We're just saying that there is a substantial bit of bigotry in the Drag Race fandom that prompts some viewers to over penalize Black queens for failings that white queens have in equal measure and keeps these viewers from recognizing the skills and talents of Black queens. When people are issuing death threats to Black queens and littering their social media with racial invective, one has to acknowledge that racism and bigotry are indeed impacting their careers. And frankly that is very demoralizing.

Here you have a gay man of color. His sexuality makes him minority in mainstream society. His race makes him a minority in mainstream society. His choice to do drag makes him a minority in the gay community. And here in his safe space, he's met with bigotry and racism by people who are allegedly part of his community and fans of the drag art form.

Furthermore who is that compartmentalized that they can spout racist bullshit online, but have no problems showing up to one of Kennedy's shows or a meet and greet. Or stipulate "no fats, no femme, no asians" but want to see Kim Chi or Peppermint perform. It doesn't happen. I say this as a Black woman that I've seen some real cognitive dissonance in my life, but I'm doubtful that some of the same racism Kennedy experiences online doesn't translate into a reduced number of fans. Additionally some of the white queens confirm witnesing fan biogtry directed to Black queens.

Kennedy has implied that bigotry has negatively impacted her career. Other queens, fans, and journalists have provided their experiences that seem to confirm this allegation. None of them are saying that racism is the only reason why Kennedy's career isn't in the same position as her white peers. They are just saying that it has had an impact. 

FYI Chi Chi also got racist epithets and threats of violence when she knocked Thorgy out of season 8. 

All of the queens of color have been dismissed or downright hated by so many fans.  All you have to do is take a tour of facebook to feel the pulsating hatred of QoC to get the gist

Bebe only won for her looks and Nina was the best

Tyra was no worse than Raven in her season but she is the most hated queen in RPDR fandom

Shangela was getting all kinds of hate when she was brought back in season 3

Jasmine, Chichi, Bob, Kennedy and Nina Bonina all have had hate thrown their way mostly over doing a better lipsync than the white queen she was up against.

Bob still do get to many accolades for winning his season

so there is that.......

[Luciano]

They either edited it out or DeLa sat there and said/asked nothing during the jury interviews. She talked afterwards to the camera but that's it. 

Eliminates herself so that she won't have to eliminate any more queens, gets brought back to help eliminate two queens. I'd be just sitting there too.

That being said, I can't believe that Thorgy's pain in the ass self was the only one who seemed to factor just performance on this show (not outside it, not 'who needs it more,' or whatever) in making her decision. So, go Thorgy! This once. 

I'm echoing a lot of people and saying that they need to revamp the show. This fuckery led to the frontrunner running off (which really hurt because DeLa is my favorite of all so oof) and a lot of people resenting the results for a variety of reasons (she's the winner but with an asterisk, she won but didn't face the best of the rest, she only got up there because her others felt she needed it the most, is she being punished for being too successful outside the show, etc.). I don't blame the queens (and it sucks that they are feeling the negative reactions the most), I blame the show - way to make it so that it's unfair to the participants and annoying to the viewers. If they want to make it different, maybe change judges or make it so that each judge has an equal say on who wins/gets eliminated so that RuPaul's taste doesn't override everything - if you're good enough to be an All-Star, then you're good enough to already have that RuPaul stamp-of-approval by the time you enter the workroom.

My non-DeLa choice was Shangela. So my already sort-of deflated balloon just sadly hissed and floated to the ground when the top two choices were revealed.

[Aging Goth]

1 minute ago, BloggerAloud said:

Trixie Mattel is the first queen since Tyra Sanchez to really do horrible during Snatch Game and still end up winning her season.

Actually, Tyra Sanchez did very well during her season, winning multiple challenges.  She may have had an aggressive nature but so did Raven who was downright nasty to other queens and nobody clocked her

[BloggerAloud]

5 minutes ago, Aging Goth said:

Actually, Tyra Sanchez did very well during her season, winning multiple challenges.  She may have had an aggressive nature but so did Raven who was downright nasty to other queens and nobody clocked her

I'm not saying that Tyra didn't do well in her season. I'm specifically saying that Tyra didn't do great during Snatch Game. Most years since Tyra's season, the winning queen has usually done well or at the very least not bombed Snatch Game. I even give Tyra a pass since it was the first year of Snatch Game.