S13.E11: Breakdown

[Pondlass1]

I couldn't read it all because she starts out like a 15 year old girl squeeing with hands covering her face for the scary bits.  Supernatural is mild compared to what's on TV today.

She must be a Sam/Jared fan. LOL

"Jared’s acting is again worth mentioning..."

"The change in Dean is instantaneous, and Ackles shows us it vividly."

[DeeDee79]

17 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I couldn't read it all because she starts out like a 15 year old girl squeeing with hands covering her face for the scary bits.  Supernatural is mild compared to what's on TV today.

She must be a Sam/Jared fan. LOL

"Jared’s acting is again worth mentioning..."

"The change in Dean is instantaneous, and Ackles shows us it vividly."

Yes, and she went into excruciating detail about Sam's appearance ( long, lean body & lush hair?? )...why was that even needed? Although I did like this: "Dean is brilliant in his ability to be a chameleon, with a wealth of knowledge that allows him to do it successfully. Smart!Dean makes me very happy indeed."

[MysteryGuest]

6 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Yes, and she went into excruciating detail about Sam's appearance ( long, lean body & lush hair?? )...why was that even needed? Although I did like this: "Dean is brilliant in his ability to be a chameleon, with a wealth of knowledge that allows him to do it successfully. Smart!Dean makes me very happy indeed."

Well, if she had waxed poetic about Dean's lovely form, I wouldn't have objected, so I can't criticize her for being a Sam fan.  We all have our favorites.  I did think it was a genuinely creepy episode, so I agree with her there.  I have a low tolerance for gore and violence so SPN is about all I can handle in that regard.  And even then I turn away for some scenes.  What can I say, I'm a wimp.  

[DeeDee79]

1 minute ago, MysteryGuest said:

Well, if she had waxed poetic about Dean's lovely form, I wouldn't have objected, so I can't criticize her for being a Sam fan.  We all have our favorites.  I did think it was a genuinely creepy episode, so I agree with her there.  I have a low tolerance for gore and violence so SPN is about all I can handle in that regard.  And even then I turn away for some scenes.  What can I say, I'm a wimp.  

I don't think that I was criticizing her for being a Sam fan; I was just pointing out a line in her review.

[MysteryGuest]

1 minute ago, DeeDee79 said:

I don't think that I was criticizing her for being a Sam fan; I was just pointing out a line in her review.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were.  From my own perspective, because I'm a Dean fan, I tend to side-eye some things that are very Sam-centric, because I just don't see them the same way.  I have to make a concerted effort to not take offense, or feel defensive on Dean's behalf.  This writer at least seems to enjoy the show, and the brothers' relationship, specifically, so her comments didn't bother me as much as they could have.  

[DeeDee79]

5 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were.  From my own perspective, because I'm a Dean fan, I tend to side-eye some things that are very Sam-centric, because I just don't see them the same way.  I have to make a concerted effort to not take offense, or feel defensive on Dean's behalf.  This writer at least seems to enjoy the show, and the brothers' relationship, specifically, so her comments didn't bother me as much as they could have.  

I can respect a reviewer that has a preference as long as they are still fair in their review in regards to the other brother which I think she was. That particular line just skeeved me out a bit which is why I pointed it out.

[Pondlass1]

I think if you're a fan of one actors/characters then you are going focus on that particular actor/character. I know I'm guilty of this. It's only human nature.  But if these reviewers think they're being neutral, well, they're not.   She likes Sam best..... and that's fine. 

My personal criticism of the Fangasm ladies is that they love absolutely everything.  So there's never much meat to chew on in their rose-coloured episode reviews.  However I am so very grateful for their overviews of all that goes on at conventions.  Those I read!

[Pondlass1]

Oh... and the clock.  I think the infamous clock is in this episode!!

[MysteryGuest]

I also prefer reviews that are objective, but I think some of those can actually be too critical.  I think you have to "get" the show to understand why we come back week after week, even when the writing is frequently not up to par.  This episode, with a  few minor adjustments, I feel was better than most.  I find this season to be far superior to last season, but considering how much I disliked last season, it wasn't going to take much to improve my opinion.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, DeeDee79 said:

Yes, and she went into excruciating detail about Sam's appearance ( long, lean body & lush hair?? )...why was that even needed? Although I did like this: "Dean is brilliant in his ability to be a chameleon, with a wealth of knowledge that allows him to do it successfully. Smart!Dean makes me very happy indeed."

From Lynn's review

Quote

But let’s be shallow first. After the horror film opening, we return to the show with a scene of Sam in bed, and the camera does a little loving pan up Sam Winchester’s long lean body and lush hair before we get to his handsome (albeit not very happy looking) face. It reminded me instantly of that similar shot of Dean from the early seasons, a slow pan up his body as he lay sleeping. Thank you, Show, for these moments!

 

I didn't even take the pan up Sam's body as them intentionally doing the "gaze" like was done with Dean in Phantom Traveler so I don't know why Lynn drew that comparison other than it was about as surface level as it could be which surprised me from Lynn.  Sure,  we can all be shallow but her reviews usually recognize contextual differences in surface things. I'm a but disappointed with her on that part.

And for me it does bother me because I do not believe that shot was intended to be seen as sexual or objectifying Sam/Jared , because the context was entirely different. Dean was asleep in 1.4 when Sam came in bringing Dean coffee because Sam  couldn't sleep because he was depressed and grieving Jessica, and having nightmares which he coped with by getting out and about not laying in bed. He did the same thing in all other times he was depressed that I recollect, so him just laying in bed seems OOC for Sam. Now if they said it was a blizzard so he couldn't get out, fine, but they didn't.

IMO, showing the clock and the passage of time with Sam being unable to sleep invoked that Sam was in some kind of emotional distress so I couldn't see it sexually or even as a more than just a moody shot with a handsome actor. It did not intentionally objectify Sam like Dean was in 1.4.

 IMO this is another example of Dabb's Era being unable or unwilling to write much new interesting things for Dean and Sam and instead rehashes old story beats, repurposed lines, and giving character beats of one brother to the other brother and it doesn't work.

Edited January 28, 2018 by catrox14
clarity of thought now that I've had coffee

[catrox14]

11 hours ago, Res said:

Screw the bus. That won't be fast enough. I'll get a private jet!

Maybe Jared will let us borrow his LOL

[catrox14]

51 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Oh... and the clock.  I think the infamous clock is in this episode!!

Was a clock shown beyond the opening sequence? Am I misremembering because I thought Sam or Dean were shown looking at their watches?

Quote

Same. I don't want a revisit of the visions or the freaking demon blood to bolster his abilities to get Mary out of the AU. I wouldn't put it past TPTB to go there if they started down that road.

Honestly, for me, at this point, given the reference to it in s12 with Magda, him relating to Jack, and then his clear parallel to Patience, if they don't go with Sam having visions it will feel like a lame McGuffin for no reason aside from using Sam and Dean's history in creating the Wayward Sisters and trading on the nostalgia (which I admit irritates me because it's so obvious) Personally, I'd rather they go back to Sam's visions, Dean's Hell time and his connection to Michael and wrap those up for the boys by the end of the series.

[Icarus]

I have actually followed “Fan sm” for some time and have read all the books. What really really annoys me is that she started out as a massive Dean/Jensen girl and then as she became closer to all the actors seems to have changed tack and also it so totally gets on my nerves that she now always puts Sam/Jared's name first when talking about them. I am not sure why people always seem to say Sam and Dean rather then Dean and Sam which as Dean is the older brother should be the way round but that is an old chestnut! Certainly this is not a review of this episode and the last one was just a blow by blow account of what happened.

 

I struggle to take her reviews very seriously any more as they can't be too critical because she is “in bed” with all the actors. Although I do read them and certainly pick up pointers sometimes that I have missed, and don't hate on me when I mention the WFB site which I hardly dare venture into!! but it does sometimes have (when you can get over all the Dean hate) really interesting insights. This comment will probably be deleted as I don't think it really belongs in this thread! So to get back on topic I enjoyed this episode and found the horror quite horrifying - we saw lots of Dean and Sam (see what i did there!) and I thought Donna was excellent, definitely showed her acting chops.

[Pondlass1]

18 minutes ago, Icarus said:

Donna was excellent, definitely showed her acting chops.

I thought Brianna was the standout in this episode.  I was pleasantly surprised.  

I watch a lot of horror  - so I'm pretty desensitized to blood and gore.  In fact, too much of it gets on my nerves.... not gross me out.  I'd much rather a good ol' creepy creaky house episode (and suspense stuff like Dean climbing up to peer at that Scarecrow - I didn't breathe).   But I have to admit, after watching again, it could have been more chilling had it been humans  bidding to see arms&legs chopped off.  We humans can be pretty sick... and surely slicing and dicing is daily life for monsters?  But I guess when you air at 8pm you can't go there. 

I'll have to find the scene with the wall clock (that started out in season 1).  I'm sure I saw it in the distance on a wall. 

[Bobcatkitten]

I appreciate all theories trying to explain Sam's sudden depression. But the fact is if we have to try to come up with explanations then the writing failed. 

[DeeDee79]

29 minutes ago, Icarus said:

I have actually followed “Fan sm” for some time and have read all the books. What really really annoys me is that she started out as a massive Dean/Jensen girl and then as she became closer to all the actors seems to have changed tack and also it so totally gets on my nerves that she now always puts Sam/Jared's name first when talking about them. I am not sure why people always seem to say Sam and Dean rather then Dean and Sam which as Dean is the older brother should be the way round but that is an old chestnut! Certainly this is not a review of this episode and the last one was just a blow by blow account of what happened.

 

I struggle to take her reviews very seriously any more as they can't be too critical because she is “in bed” with all the actors. Although I do read them and certainly pick up pointers sometimes that I have missed, and don't hate on me when I mention the WFB site which I hardly dare venture into!! but it does sometimes have (when you can get over all the Dean hate) really interesting insights. This comment will probably be deleted as I don't think it really belongs in this thread! So to get back on topic I enjoyed this episode and found the horror quite horrifying - we saw lots of Dean and Sam (see what i did there!) and I thought Donna was excellent, definitely showed her acting chops.

I didn't know that she had ties to the show. This was maybe the second review that I've read on that site & I just realized that the first review that I read and like was by a different reviewer than the one that I posted. What is Fangasm?

1 minute ago, Pondlass1 said:

I thought Brianna was the standout in this episode.  I was pleasantly surprised.  

Same and I enjoyed Doug also.

[catrox14]

39 minutes ago, Icarus said:

Dean rather then Dean and Sam which as Dean is the older brother should be the way round but that is an old chestnut! C

I flip them around all the time. I'm never consistent LOL.

[catrox14]

14 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I didn't know that she had ties to the show. This was maybe the second review that I've read on that site & I just realized that the first review that I read and like was by a different reviewer than the one that I posted. What is Fangasm?

She's written a few books about fandom and the culture for fandom.

"Fangasm: Supernatural Fangirls"
"Family Don't End with Blood"
"Fandom at the Crossroads"

 

[DeeDee79]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

She's written a few books about fandom and the culture for fandom.

"Fangasm: Supernatural Fangirls"
"Family Don't End with Blood"
"Fandom at the Crossroads"

 

Oh, ok. I've heard of "Family Don't End with Blood" but I didn't know anything about the writer. Is Fangasm a site that she runs? I'm not sure which thread to put these questions in since they're not episode related. SPN Media thread maybe? *shrugs*

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Oh, ok. I've heard of "Family Don't End with Blood" but I didn't know anything about the writer. Is Fangasm a site that she runs? I'm not sure which thread to put these questions in since they're not episode related. SPN Media thread maybe? *shrugs*

Yeah Media thread is good I think.

[Pondlass1]

33 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

if we have to try to come up with explanations then the writing failed. 

I was ok with Sam's depression and sense of hopelessness.  We all have off days when the world seems to collapse down on us.

But it came out of left field with no build up....and I don't think these writers realize they're again setting up Sam as someone who is quite able to turn his back on helping.  He abandoned Dean and Kevin to rot.... and if it'd been left up to him he wasn't going to bother with Donna's niece either. 

Deans builds  to depression, anger, hopelessness or whatever.  And we see it build over several episodes.  But the brothers are very different (Dean would never turn down pancakes no matter how deep the funk) and I guess depression comes upon Sam all at once.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Pondlass1

[DittyDotDot]

31 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I didn't know that she had ties to the show. This was maybe the second review that I've read on that site & I just realized that the first review that I read and like was by a different reviewer than the one that I posted. What is Fangasm?

Fangasm was the first book these two college professors--Katherine Larsen and Lynn Zubernis--wrote about fandom. It seems it's mostly Lynn anymore, but they were both very active in fandom and over the years has gotten to know the cast and some of the crew. Basically, Fangasm are just fans who write reviews, do interviews with the cast and sometimes write books about fandom. 

[DeeDee79]

13 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Yeah Media thread is good I think.

Thanks @catrox14!

1 minute ago, DittyDotDot said:

Fangasm was the first book these two college professors--Katherine Larsen and Lynn Zubernis--wrote about fandom. It seems it's mostly Lynn anymore, but they were both very active in fandom and over the years has gotten to know the cast and some of the crew. Basically, Fangasm are just fans who write reviews, do interviews with the cast and sometimes write books about fandom. 

Thank you so much for the info!

[Myrelle]

I thought this one was okay for a MOTW, mainly because the main MOTW was creepy as hell and Dean got to end him with the added "Show's over" from the Shaving people promo.

The role reversal of the depression sl was handled horribly though, IMO. And IA with those that said even certain lines were simply reversed almost word for word-which made it seem to be simply and only a reversal with very little thought process from the writers concerning the brothers' differing characterizations. But this is very par for the course under Dabb, so I'm not surprised by it at all. The real worry is where they will take it now that Sam has it, but that's for another thread, and I did love most of the Dean stuff that they gave us in this one. He made it worth the watch for me, as usual.

I liked Doug so much more than Donna in this one. He seemed Real, while she lost some of her luster for me; but hopefully she's now gone with the Wayward Whatevers to where ever, and the writers of Supernatural  can and will start writing for mothership again. As someone else mentioned, this one at least had the feel of the original Supernatural back. But then again, it was a MOTW and they're going to have to eventually return to a mytharc that still revolves around Mary, Lucifer, and the Cinnamon Roll AKA Jack. So DepressedSam and that mytharc have me now hoping as a last hope for S13 that the Michael sl might go to Dean because if it goes to anyone else that would pretty much flush the season down the toilet for me.

I wish I had more confidence that the showrunning and the writing for this show might be able to avoid that but last season is still too recent for me to feel too hopeful in that regard. But Carver surprised me once and maybe Dabb will, too. Time will tell. For now, it remains week-by-week for me with this show and this week wasn't bad.

Nervous about next week, though.

[ahrtee]

A few things about this ep that I don't think have been brought up here yet:

1.  I didn't think the FBI guy was the badguy (at first); what I did think was "geeze, this guy's been chasing the psycho for *12 years* and Dean gets the leads to find out exactly what's going on in about 12 minutes (plus another few for Sam to out the badguy and find out exactly where the auction is taking place.)  Way to make the FBI look bad!  Of course, once he was revealed, it all made sense (I guess.)  Wouldn't the FBI be kind of pissed at the lack of progress on the case, though, and maybe have replaced him before now?  (12 YEARS?)

2. Although they went against canon for the amount of time it took Doug to become a vamp, I was happy to see they knew enough to throw in an "explainer" even though it didn't make a lot of sense (AFAIK, Dean had never seen a change that fast...or even less than a couple of hours.  But minutes? *sigh*) )

3.  Similarly, IIRC, you don't have to administer the antidote *immediately* (Dean didn't get his till after he wiped out the vamp's nest) as long as the person doesn't feed.  The only urgency is in getting the blood of the one who turned him (and, I guess, keeping it liquid?)  But, since Sam was in danger (though I don't think Dean knew *how* imminent), it would make more sense that he'd tell Donna to grab Dougie and the blood and get in the car and they'd whip up the antidote after everyone (including Donna's niece!) was safe.  (Did he really have all the ingredients in the trunk?)  I know, this way gave Doug more time to watch Donna in action (and decide 'hell no!') but (especially with the nick-of-timeliness of Dean's save of Sam) I thought it was OOC.  (How about a fanfic where Dean was just two seconds too late for Sam (say he heard the shot as he was running down the hallway to save him) because he took those extra however many minutes to save Doug.)  Just a thought.  

But mostly:

4.  Isn't Donna (technically, at least) Doug's immediate supervisor, since she's the sheriff and he's a deputy?  Wouldn't the sheriff's department have some kind of rules about fraternization (at least in direct lines of power?)  I know small offices can set their own rules (especially when there aren't that many people working there) but most government entities are pretty paranoid about the possibility of harrassment suits these days and specify *not in the immediate chain of command.*  (If Doug was, say, a dispatcher, that might be OK.)  (My local sheriff's office is in the middle of a court case between the former sheriff and several female deputies.)  

Edited January 28, 2018 by ahrtee

[MysteryGuest]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I flip them around all the time. I'm never consistent LOL.

It's funny, I pretty much always say Sam and Dean, but I also almost always say Jensen and Jared.  It just seems to flow off the tongue better.

[SueB]

I think Lynn Z. is a fan of both boys.  She certainly doesn't scrimp on the Jensen eye candy at conventions and as far as I can tell she buys M&G tickets to both boys for every. single. convention.   So, if she was a "Sam girl" only, I think she wouldn't do that.  I know she feels a certain mentorship relationship with Jared now (due to coaxing him through writing his chapter in his book), but I really don't think she has a specific brother bias.  

And I think I've only ever ONCE not seen completely eye to eye on every aspect of her reviews.  Otherwise I just spend most of my time head nodding.

59 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

A few things about this ep that I don't think have been brought up here yet:

1.  I didn't think the FBI guy was the badguy (at first); what I did think was "geeze, this guy's been chasing the psycho for *12 years* and Dean gets the leads to find out exactly what's going on in about 12 minutes (plus another few for Sam to out the badguy and find out exactly where the auction is taking place.)  Way to make the FBI look bad!  Of course, once he was revealed, it all made sense (I guess.)  Wouldn't the FBI be kind of pissed at the lack of progress on the case, though, and maybe have replaced him before now?  (12 YEARS?)

2. Although they went against canon for the amount of time it took Doug to become a vamp, I was happy to see they knew enough to throw in an "explainer" even though it didn't make a lot of sense (AFAIK, Dean had never seen a change that fast...or even less than a couple of hours.  But minutes? *sigh*) )

3.  Similarly, IIRC, you don't have to administer the antidote *immediately* (Dean didn't get his till after he wiped out the vamp's nest) as long as the person doesn't feed.  The only urgency is in getting the blood of the one who turned him (and, I guess, keeping it liquid?)  But, since Sam was in danger (though I don't think Dean knew *how* imminent), it would make more sense that he'd tell Donna to grab Dougie and the blood and get in the car and they'd whip up the antidote after everyone (including Donna's niece!) was safe.  (Did he really have all the ingredients in the trunk?)  I know, this way gave Doug more time to watch Donna in action (and decide 'hell no!') but (especially with the nick-of-timeliness of Dean's save of Sam) I thought it was OOC.  (How about a fanfic where Dean was just two seconds too late for Sam (say he heard the shot as he was running down the hallway to save him) because he took those extra however many minutes to save Doug.)  Just a thought.  

But mostly:

4.  Isn't Donna (technically, at least) Doug's immediate supervisor, since she's the sheriff and he's a deputy?  Wouldn't the sheriff's department have some kind of rules about fraternization (at least in direct lines of power?)  I know small offices can set their own rules (especially when there aren't that many people working there) but most government entities are pretty paranoid about the possibility of harrassment suits these days and specify *not in the immediate chain of command.*  (If Doug was, say, a dispatcher, that might be OK.)  (My local sheriff's office is in the middle of a court case between the former sheriff and several female deputies.)  

1. They left Victor Hendricks on the Winchester case for multiple years.  12 is long but I can see it being his case.  But here's my question... was he REALLY FBI?  Or does he just play one at the scene of the crime?  He knew where the video feed led not because he had some crack FBI IT work it but because he knew.  The first indication that the real FBI wasn't involved was the complete lack of backup when he showed up at the warehouse.  No way a real FBI guy does that. There should have been 5 cars and a SWAT team.  BUT, he still could have been an FBI guy with a really nasty hobby and he used his position in the FBI to hide the body trail.  Don't know.  I'm going to guess fake FBI. But him working the case for 12 years actually makes sense to me (from a Federal government POV ... he'd be the expert, they wouldn't pull him off because he had all the backstory).

2. agreed

3. I thought showing Donna giving it to him in the car was their attempt to show "speed".  Perhaps they were worried they'd have to put him down if he got out of control?

4. Totally. It could be a secret relationship or they made sure Doug was reassigned to a different department before openly dating.  Sheriff's are elected so Donna wouldn't be the one to move.

[ahrtee]

3 minutes ago, SueB said:

3. I thought showing Donna giving it to him in the car was their attempt to show "speed".  Perhaps they were worried they'd have to put him down if he got out of control?

I thought that was their intent, too, except it would take a lot longer to gather and put together the ingredients than just having him drink it. :)  But LOL at the thought of Doug getting out of control--I have a vision of a bunny on speed.  (Do you know Bunnicula?  Maybe that was their inspiration!) 

[MysteryGuest]

38 minutes ago, SueB said:

Similarly, IIRC, you don't have to administer the antidote *immediately* (Dean didn't get his till after he wiped out the vamp's nest) as long as the person doesn't feed.  The only urgency is in getting the blood of the one who turned him (and, I guess, keeping it liquid?)  But, since Sam was in danger (though I don't think Dean knew *how* imminent), it would make more sense that he'd tell Donna to grab Dougie and the blood and get in the car and they'd whip up the antidote after everyone (including Donna's niece!) was safe. 

I figured it was just a precaution because you really don't want to drive around with a loaded vampire in the back seat.  Plus, drama.  The one scene that sort of stuck out to me as being stupid is right after Donna has seen the video of her niece tied up and ready to be diced and sliced, she takes Doug into another room to have a heart to heart about monster hunting, like they had all the time in the world.  It wasn't until Dean came in and said they had 20 minutes that they showed any urgency.  If it were my niece, I wouldn't have taken my eyes off of her until I knew exactly where she was and could get to her.  

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

4.  Isn't Donna (technically, at least) Doug's immediate supervisor, since she's the sheriff and he's a deputy?  Wouldn't the sheriff's department have some kind of rules about fraternization (at least in direct lines of power?)  I know small offices can set their own rules (especially when there aren't that many people working there) but most government entities are pretty paranoid about the possibility of harrassment suits these days and specify *not in the immediate chain of command.*  (If Doug was, say, a dispatcher, that might be OK.)  (My local sheriff's office is in the middle of a court case between the former sheriff and several female deputies.)  

I thought when Donna was working with Doug, she had just been loaned out to his department?  That wasn't her normal office, so technically, Doug doesn't work under her.  

Edited January 28, 2018 by MysteryGuest

[ahrtee]

6 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I thought when Donna was working with Doug, she had just been loaned out to his department?  That wasn't her normal office, so technically, Doug doesn't work under her.  

If Donna is the sheriff, she wouldn't get loaned out.  Maybe *he* got loaned out to her.  But I was under the impression they worked together.

I get confused in between Hibbing 911 (because I thought she worked there, but then remembered the Hibbing sheriff was the vamp and she was just on the arrangements committee?)...and then there was *that* Doug, and later the other one and she's in Stillwater....

My head hurts.  

[SueB]

I think Donna should just say "no" to anyone named Doug in the future.

[DeeDee79]

16 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

If Donna is the sheriff, she wouldn't get loaned out.  Maybe *he* got loaned out to her.  But I was under the impression they worked together.

IIRC when Sam & Dean showed up in Plush Dean pointed out that it wasn't Donna's jurisdiction. She said that she was helping out ( I think ) because they were short handed due to budget cuts in that particular county. I believe Doug just happened to be working at the precinct that she was helping.

[MysteryGuest]

I just remember in Plush that Dean makes a comment to Donna when they first see her that it isn't her regular beat.  She goes on to explain why she's there, but I can't remember what she said at this point.  But I didn't get the impression that she and Doug worked together on a regular basis.

Or what DeeDee79 just said!

Edited January 28, 2018 by MysteryGuest

[shoetingstar]

On 1/26/2018 at 7:13 AM, scribe95 said:

I liked this episode a ton!

I do think that Sam being mopey and upset kind of came out of nowhere. I wish they had set that up more. Having said that Jared did a great job. The last scene with Dean in the car flat out depressed me. Mostly because he's right. And I'm not used to hearing it from him. I'm used to it from Dean.

The case was creepy as hell. Humans suck. I was definitely on the edge of my seat. The FBI go being involved was a bit obvious but you can't have everything. Doug shone in this episode. And Donna did great with the emotion. I thought her scene with the preacher was very effective. 

Dean had some great lines. Pancakes will be meme/gif within minutes. As well as Mr. Freaking Rise and Shine and Bring it on, Twilight. 

 I've been waiting for a long time to see Sam process his grief and finally we got that. It finally spilled out after the further events of, finding Mary is alive and being tortured, The Bad Place, and seeing Kaia die to save them. It was a continuation of his earlier loss, so it was very timely from where I sit. And I agree it was very difficult to hear him verbalize such harsh conclusions about there lives- oh, my poor tragic Winchester Boys. 

In other news this episode was callback to season one's the Benders for me. It also reminded me of my personal trauma from seeing the film Hostel (seriously!). The humans being the true monsters to other humans.

I really liked how Dean carried himself in being there for Donna. And Donna got some good moments with the interrogation and I cheered her on when she kicked that Butcher's evil ass. Solidly creepy episode.

Edited January 29, 2018 by shoetingstar

[SueB]

2 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I just remember in Plush that Dean makes a comment to Donna when they first see her that it isn't her regular beat.  She goes on to explain why she's there, but I can't remember what she said at this point.  But I didn't get the impression that she and Doug worked together on a regular basis.

Or what DeeDee79 just said!

For Science (thanks to Superwiki for the transcript):
 

Quote

Dean: Mmm! What, are you working all 10,000 lakes now? This isn't usually your beat.

Donna: Just Larsen County, what with the cutbacks and all. 

Note: There is no Larsen County so... that's fictional (but there is both a Stillwater and Hibbing).

[MysteryGuest]

6 minutes ago, SueB said:

Dean: Mmm! What, are you working all 10,000 lakes now? This isn't usually your beat.

Donna: Just Larsen County, what with the cutbacks and all. 

That's a little vague, but it's possible she had just started to work with Doug.  So maybe their particular police force doesn't have any rules against fraternizing?  It didn't appear that they were sneaking around to see each other, but then we really never got a chance to see them together.  I would think that if it were strictly taboo due to hierarchy, Donna would have nipped any conversations about Doug having a crush on her at the very beginning, rather than just saying she was planning to stay clear of any more Dougs.  She'd have said he was an underling, and it was against the rules.  Anyway, thanks for looking it up.  I guess it really doesn't matter since poor Doug isn't cut out for the hunting life.

[bozodegama]

I really think the Doug thing has run it’s course.  I really hope they don’t continue with that.  Its like the only inside joke in Supernatural that i thought was stupid. I find pretty much verything else hysterical.  Even Lucifer cracks me up. I think they need to make Donna less cartoonish and this episode was the beginning of that (i hope).  They toned down her accent and she used so much less of the  gee wiz, holy moly expressions.  She seemed more believable as a hunter.  Making her like this romantically needy , only able to attract a certain type of male, women will be at odds with her new role as surrogate mom to the WS girls.  They really don’t need to make both Jody and Donna so dorky with men, imo.

[AwesomO4000]

7 hours ago, ahrtee said:

1.  I didn't think the FBI guy was the badguy (at first); what I did think was "geeze, this guy's been chasing the psycho for *12 years* and Dean gets the leads to find out exactly what's going on in about 12 minutes (plus another few for Sam to out the badguy and find out exactly where the auction is taking place.)  Way to make the FBI look bad!  Of course, once he was revealed, it all made sense (I guess.)  Wouldn't the FBI be kind of pissed at the lack of progress on the case, though, and maybe have replaced him before now?  (12 YEARS?)

Did Sam do that? I'll have to rewatch, because that would at least be a contribution from Sam. I remembered Sam not being able to figure it out and they had to call the real FBI to hack in and get the location.

9 hours ago, Icarus said:

I am not sure why people always seem to say Sam and Dean rather then Dean and Sam

For me - and likely this is only me - it comes from a mash up of two old musical groups. I grew up listening to my Mom's music and 60s music. Two groups from that time were Jan and Dean (known for "Surf City' and "Dead Man's Curve") and Sam and Dave ("Soul Man"), so for me Sam and Dean comes from the way it flows off the tongue from those two groups. In fact I'd somewhat convinced myself and/or remembered wrongly that Jan and Dean actually had been called Sam and Dean and had to look up what the actual name of the group was (I remembered "Dead Man's Curve")... but I knew the Sam & something with a "D" came from somewhere - and that was Sam and Dave.

So a weird but true explanation on my part.

9 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

But it came out of left field with no build up....and I don't think these writers realize they're again setting up Sam as someone who is quite able to turn his back on helping.  He abandoned Dean and Kevin to rot.... and if it'd been left up to him he wasn't going to bother with Donna's niece either. 

I wish I was as optimistic that the writers don't realize what they are doing when it comes to Sam. Sadly, I think they somewhat do and maybe don't care if Sam looks bad as long as it gets them the plot and/or conflict that they want... Granted this for me is a relatively recent development (Carver era on... It's one of the reasons that I miss Gamble.) But I'll stop there to avoid going too heavily into "Bitch vs Jerk" stuff.

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, AwesomO4000 said:

wish I was as optimistic that the writers don't realize what they are doing when it comes to Sam. Sadly, I think they somewhat do and maybe don't care if Sam looks bad as long as it gets them the plot and/or conflict that they want... Granted this for me is a relatively recent development (Carver era on... It's one of the reasons that I miss Gamble.) But I'll stop there to avoid going too heavily into "Bitch vs Jerk" stuff.

Sam, Dean and Cas all suffer for plot under Dabb IMO. It's all get the pieces where they want them and fuck characterization. I pers

 

1 hour ago, bozodegama said:

I really think the Doug thing has run it’s course.  I really hope they don’t continue with that.  Its like the only inside joke in Supernatural that i thought was stupid. I find pretty much verything else hysterical.  Even Lucifer cracks me up. I think they need to make Donna less cartoonish and this episode was the beginning of that (i hope).  They toned down her accent and she used so much less of the  gee wiz, holy moly expressions.  She seemed more believable as a hunter.  Making her like this romantically needy , only able to attract a certain type of male, women will be at odds with her new role as surrogate mom to the WS girls.  They really don’t need to make both Jody and Donna so dorky with men, imo.

I don't get your point here.

Doug 2.0 was completely different from Doug 1.0.  Doug 1.0 was emotionally and mentally abusive to Donna, mocking her weight etc.  She still loved him which is completely realistic but she got over him. And apparently tentatively was involved with Doug 2.0 who was kind to her.  Doug 2.0 seemed to respect Donna for exactly who she was minus the lying about the monster hunting

[AwesomO4000]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Sam, Dean and Cas all suffer for plot under Dabb IMO.

Taken to "Bitch versus Jerk" to be safe.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

On 1/27/2018 at 9:22 PM, DeeDee79 said:

https://movietvtechgeeks.com/six-things-love-supernatural-1311-breakdown/

Thanks for posting the link for this.  I enjoyed the review.  :)

[DeeDee79]

7 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Thanks for posting the link for this.  I enjoyed the review.  :)

You're welcome!

[bettername2come]

Forgot to post about the stupid thing I really love about this episode - the auction site actually lists Sam's height as 6'5".

[Wayward Son]

7 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Forgot to post about the stupid thing I really love about this episode - the auction site actually lists Sam's height as 6'5".

Yeah Jared himself and Bob Singer stated in one of the commentaries Jared is 6’5. A common mistake is the belief he’s 6’4. I actually thought that myself until recently. 

[catrox14]

I bet he had to fudge it because that inch could keep him from getting other roles. Not being g snarky. I bet it worked against him I  his early career since being  so tall it's hard to get him in  frame easily. Since he's an established actor now it probably isn't as much of a issue.

ETA: I don't think it's a mistake. IIRC that's how it was listed on imdb and Wikipedia so IMO that was on purpose.

[gonzosgirrl]

I swear Jared has grown since early SPN days. I don't have any problem believing the 6'5 at all.

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I swear Jared has grown since early SPN days. I don't have any problem believing the 6'5 at all.

He's definitely grown broader.  That's for sure.

[catrox14]

Well he did swap meatsuits between s4 and s5 so maybe he really did grow an inch (thats when he was going for Conan and bulked Up).

9 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I swear Jared has grown since early SPN days. I don't have any problem believing the 6'5 at all.

[gonzosgirrl]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

He's definitely grown broader.  That's for sure.

Oh yeah, his breadth goes up and down, but I swear he's taller. I was so struck by it in my one and only photo op (Toronto, 2015). Very tall and very thin. The trope about the camera adding 10lbs is cliche because it's true!

[auntvi]

Jared was in his early 20s when SPN started, so it's very possible he grew another inch.