S13.E10: Wayward Sisters

[Myrelle]

It's going to be picked up for sure and if you make it known that you didn't care for it-for any reason-then you risk being labelled a "woman-hater" by some on the social media front.  And I thought the comments backed that up hysterically. :-D

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, Wayward Son said:

We’ll written article I largely agree :)

That was a poorly researched review. It's written with an agenda just like the other one. I feel at this point like I wish I never gave clicks to either one. 

The "smog of misogyny" is just too far. It's a hit piece on the original SPN and the second one is a hit piece on those that like characters other than Dean and Sam.  Surely there is some balanced reviews out there no?

[DeeDee79]

9 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

The "smog of misogyny" is just too far. It's a hit piece on the original SPN and the second one is a hit piece on those that like characters other than Dean and Sam.  Surely there is some balanced reviews out there no?

I read about 5 or 6 reviews today and they all more or less stated that the mothership was misogynistic and that WS showed that TPTB were finally starting to care about their female viewers. Say what now??

Edited January 20, 2018 by DeeDee79

[Wayward Son]

The cynic in me would argue the spin off is basically “we want our Male show to continue with its Male focus, so here’s a female show to keep you busy and let us continue telling our Male orientated story”. 

 

I personally don’t see how creating an exclusively female led show and keeping Supernatural with its current all male roster is going to change anything about the mother show once the spin off starts and Jody etc are no longer a part of SN -shrug- 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Wayward Son

[bozodegama]

1 minute ago, Wayward Son said:

The cynic in me would argue the spin off is basically “we want our Male show to continue with its Male focus, so here’s a female show to keep you busy and let us continue telling our Male orientated story”. 

Except they’re not continuing Supernatural.  The show has a max of one, maybe  two years and it’s done.

[Commando Cody]

When a show goes for 13 seasons, it is going to have some issues. Some of the episodes are going to be real stinkers - sometimes entire seasons. We know that the only constants in this show are going to be Sam and Dean. There have been some disappointing deaths. In other cases, they don't kill of the characters fast enough. No supporting character is safe on this show.  Supernatural has continuity problems. Sometimes they really mess with Sam and Dean's characters and take them into directions that we don't like.  Sam and Dean take the blame for things they had no control over - a very frustrating issue for me. 

The thing is, if you get to go to a Supernatural convention, they are, for the most part, attended by women. If you see a man there, he probably went with his wife or took his daughter. Sometimes men show up on their own, but they are few in numbers. If women were really offended by the way this show is written, it would have died years ago and Creation wouldn't be having conventions. 

I don't agree that that the producers of Wayward Sisters were reading social media to come up with what the fans wanted. They would have understood that Claire is a very polarizing character - not a lead character. Some people really like her. I read many more anti-Claire comments than I do pro-Claire. I'm guessing for this show to move forward, The WB had some input into who gets the starring role. The WB doesn't push shows with middle aged women kicking ass - even though that's the show I would watch. The WB wants angsty, bitter, sullen, bitchy, rude, ungrateful, overly Coiffed teen Biker Barbie - turned Wonder Hunter in a matter of no time at all. That's the show they probably think will develop a strong teenage audience. 

It's too bad they can't take Jody, Donna and Alex to Netflix. I think that show would work there or on a less angst-driven, teenage viewer-ship driven network. The pilot did sort of come off as a continuation of the final episode of Buffy - where they gave all the women the power and at the same time, killed off a popular character.  They would have really driven the point home if Charlie was still alive. Whomever mentioned Buffy and the Scooby Gang guarding against the Hellmouth - seems like a good comparison. 

[Wayward Son]

7 minutes ago, bozodegama said:

Except they’re not continuing Supernatural.  The show has a max of one, maybe  two years and it’s done.

But nothing along those lines have been confirmed and fans are just speculating. I’ve been watching this show from season 2 and have seen so many assumptions that the show is going to end, only for it to go on, that I won’t take anything for granted until the official word is out. The show could end next year as many expect, but I also wouldn’t rule out it still being here by season 20 since the ratings are still going strong. 

 

Anyway, I anticipate WS being a one season and done deal and the cynic in me half wonders if the creatives expect it too and just want be in the position to say to critics “we gave you your girl power show and no one watched” 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Wayward Son

[bozodegama]

17 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

But nothing along those lines have been confirmed and fans are just speculating. I’ve been watching this show from season 2 and have seen so many assumptions that the show is going to end, only for it to go on, that I won’t take anything for granted until the official word is out. The show could end next year as many expect, but I also wouldn’t rule out it still being here by season 20 since the ratings are still going strong. 

 

Anyway, I anticipate WS being a one season and done deal and the cynic in me half wonders if the creatives expect it too and just want be in the position to say to critics “we gave you your girl power show and no one watched” 

Hey, i hope your right and it continues but i don’t think so.  What’s the point of supporting a one season show if that’s the case?  Just to say Supernatural is now a girl power show.  I think it’s strictly pandering to the most vocal segment of their audience,  very young girls.  What has always surprised me about Supernatural  is that no one ever talks about how the television show practically glorifies alcoholism.  Bobby was an alcoholic, maybe Rufus, Ellen, Crowley and Dean.  I think it’s because the guys are so good looking, so it’s oveerlooked.  But it seems like a bigger negative than some made up misogyny.

[mommo]

I re-watched today, trying to give it a fairer shake than the first time, when I was supremely annoyed by the set up of Claire as the heroin.  I liked it better, but if it's going to be a must-watch for me it needs...tweaking. (Also watched You've Got Mail and CANNOT hear or read that work except in Tom Hanks' voice :) )

Anyway, in an attempt to give annoying Claire a break, I reminded myself that before Jimmy gave himself over to Cass, she was an only child.  Probably at least a bit spoiled, and certainly grew a gigantic chip on her shoulder.  Maybe with Kaia's death she'll soften a bit.  The only way this show will succeed, IMO, is for her to NOT be the "lead", but to make the focus on, if not Jody and Donna, then at the very least a Jody-and-Donna-led ensemble.  Because softening or not, a little Claire goes a long way.  

What still irks me on re-watch though, is the lack of backstory for Kaia.  We know almost nothing about her, and what we do know is heartbreaking.  I'd like to know more, show, you need to fix this. 

Patience said "Maybe my dad will take me back", so he did, in fact, tell her not to come back.  Dick. I love love love Alex for being staunchly in Jody's corner no matter what.  No chip on her shoulder, thank goodness.  As a 'partner' to Supernatural, I'll probably, but when Supernatural goes, I'll go with it.  My only interest in the stories has been because of the Sam/Dean relationship, toxic or not, it's why I watch. 

[UNOSEZ]

I'm looking FWD to the series.. Do I wish the emphasis was in jody instead of Claire sure... But when it becomes a series let's hope they fix it... In a perfect world it'd just be Alex Jody and paitence ...i love Donna.. But I think I'd love her less in large doses... But those 3 are all level headed smart women who.. If they did something stupid and reckless.. It would seem outta order so I guess u need Claire...  As for the mother ship.. I'll continue to want what I've always wanted.. For castiel to grow some balls and check Dean for how he treats him.  Castiel has time and time again gone against his own even what might be called betrayal to help same and dean.. And deab talks to him and treats him like a stupid side kick

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, mommo said:

Patience said "Maybe my dad will take me back", so he did, in fact, tell her not to come back. 

Or maybe Patience took his words as an ultimatum but he never meant that. Even if he didn't mean it, the damage was done and she took it that way :( . And just reminds me of all the stuff from the boys SL that are being appropriated and repurposed in WS. That's what is making me kind of resent the spinoff. It's that kind of homage/lifting under Dabb for like 2 seasons now that really annoys me.

[bozodegama]

That was some terrible writing about patience’s father.  No father, especially a single dad (speaking with experience), would tell his daughter not to come home no matter what they wanted to do.  Of course her father would take her back. I’m sure they’ll explore that in the wayward show and have the father back on.  I felt bad for Patience.  Not all the girls have to be instant badasses.  I like her character and the not evil Kaia (if she’s not dead).  

[7kstar]

23 hours ago, SueB said:

Bottom Line: I really liked the episode but still looked at it as a pilot with guest stars Sam and Dean.  That's okay.  That was my expectation.  I like Claire's emotional growth in this episode.  I really like all the characters in the potential new spinoff.  "It taste like lizard." may become a new tagline. 

I guess, I'll be the person more in the middle.  Plenty has been said about Claire but I felt this gives the opportunity to tone her down some and make it more an ensemble than Claire is everything.  I have always loved Jody.  Donna was used well in here and Alex was a strong link.  You have room for Alex & Claire conflict like Sam & Dean conflict.

The big bad....not a fan but if it is the overall arch and they do go on normal hunts like like Sam and Dean then it has a lot of potential.  I'm interested in this which, is really crazy since I hate horror.  But I would give it a try.

I will say many seem to be forgetting the early comments for Supernatural.  Jared's acting has grown but I wasn't watching for Sam and I wasn't only a Dean girl.  I actually started watching due to fanfiction and I was interested in Jensen's acting skills.  There was plenty to not like and yet it had something that made me give it another shot.  So I do feel this one is somewhere in that category.  JMV

 

Quote

From the Review:  It makes perfect sense, in this era of galvanized, angry feminism, for the show to crown a new younger, female version of Dean to lead a spinoff. Supernatural needs its main characters to be defiant, rough-hewn, and broken. No wonder Claire feels as if she’s been a main character all along.

I think they are hoping Claire will bring in the young male viewers.  Alex and Claire worked for me.  Jody and Claire worked although one scene was rough, but I do believe this one has so much more to offer for viewers that love Supernatural and leaves an opportunity for crossovers.  If they are listening to the fans, nothing was done that couldn't be fixed.  Certainly there are shows that had much worse pilots that became hits...Hercules is on I can think of and Iolaus was added much later when they finally caught on that he brought the fans interest.  lol.  I actually did pay attention to this one and I can't say the same for the other try.

So if you loved this one, no problem your views are just as valid as anyone else and I think most here will welcome your views as long as you don't attack Dean or Sam too much.  lol

[DeeDee79]

4 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

For castiel to grow some balls and check Dean for how he treats him. 

Yes! Because his relationship is only with Dean ( not Sam ) and Cas has always treated Dean wonderfully. Oh. wait a minute...

Edited January 21, 2018 by DeeDee79

[UNOSEZ]

19 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

Yes! Because his relationship is only with Dean ( not Sam ) and Cas has always treated Dean wonderfully. Oh. wait a minute...

No of course same is bad when it comes to cas but all chips on the table... Dean treats him worse.. Part is he's just gruff.. But dean still has his brother... He got his mom back castiel is barely allowed in heaven if were gonna go whos actually lost more it's Cas... I love the show but I wish there was a way to estimate how much collateral damage those two have created... Just saving each other and their mom... 

[Myrelle]

Quote

 

Plus, the entire premise of the backdoor pilot and potential series actually originated from within Supernatural’s women-dominated fandom. In April 2015, Tumblr user peter-pantomime wrote a post arguing that recent developments on the show (which we’ll get to in a moment) set the stage perfectly for a new, better, girl-powered spinoff. They tagged the post “wayward daughters,” and this cry was quickly picked up and turned into a legitimate fan campaign, one that was championed by members of the Supernatural ensemble and ultimately embraced by the production team.

The result: “Wayward Sisters,” an episode that felt fun, fast-paced, full of energy, and more vibrant than Supernatural has been in ages.

 

This, from the former review, is an example of sheep-like accolades, IMO, because to me the result was just more of the same drek that Dabb has been giving us on Supernatural since he took over. Exactly the same. So this review went into the toilet for me when I read that and many of the other opinions expressed in that one.

The other one held at least some opinions that I agreed with wholeheartedly, and others that I could see the point in, even if those points didn't bother me as much they bothered the author.

9 hours ago, Commando Cody said:

I don't agree that that the producers of Wayward Sisters were reading social media to come up with what the fans wanted. They would have understood that Claire is a very polarizing character - not a lead character.

Tumblr loves Claire, from all that I've seen. They think she is The Bomb-again from all that I've read. Jack, too. The Js are still very popular, as is MC, but I DO think that Dabb is looking for the next Tumblr/social media phenom who will take the place of the Js and MC after the  show ends-which I agree, will not be long in coming.

I think that Dabb feels that SPN is pretty much passe already, tbh. That's the feeling that I've gotten from his showrunning and writing since he took over.

And who knows, maybe he knows something that the fandom doesn't...*shrugs*...

[DittyDotDot]

14 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

I'm looking FWD to the series.. Do I wish the emphasis was in jody instead of Claire sure... But when it becomes a series let's hope they fix it... In a perfect world it'd just be Alex Jody and paitence ...i love Donna.. But I think I'd love her less in large doses... But those 3 are all level headed smart women who.. If they did something stupid and reckless.. It would seem outta order so I guess u need Claire...  

I think the inclusion of Claire is fine and makes a certain amount of sense, I just think they made a mistake in making her the focus. There really should be no one focal character in a true ensemble show. Plus, the way they wrote Claire saying this was her army...yuck!

But, hopefully they also hear what people have been saying and will dial that back if they get picked up for series. Seems that's the one consistent criticism I've heard, too much focus on Claire.

13 hours ago, bozodegama said:

That was some terrible writing about patience’s father.  No father, especially a single dad (speaking with experience), would tell his daughter not to come home no matter what they wanted to do.  Of course her father would take her back. I’m sure they’ll explore that in the wayward show and have the father back on.  I felt bad for Patience.  Not all the girls have to be instant badasses.  I like her character and the not evil Kaia (if she’s not dead).  

I would imagine they'll revisit it over and over again if they get picked up for series. It'll be Patience's angsty dilemma to constantly be wavering about throughout the first season. And I would also guess that eventually the dad will show up at their door to work it all out. I'm sure it will be like John and Sam in some ways. John said something in the heat of the moment thinking he'd get Sam to back down, and was too stubborn and proud to take it back once the dust settled. The big difference being Patience's father probably won't hold out for four years. And, I would guess it'll come to a head after Patience gets severely injured. 

My bigger issue with Patience right now is I don't think they've done enough to establish why she would stay in Sioux Falls now. She delivered her vision message and helped them with their problem, but there's really nothing holding her to Sioux Falls right now. I'm sure they will establish it eventually, but of all the characters, I think Patience was the least developed here. 

[catrox14]

Something I kind of forgot about in the episode.

Claire stating she is going to rip another hole in the universe to kill the monster that killed her GF.

 Billie just did warn Dean off doing that and he did it anyway after seeing the vision from Jack. There really should be some blowback by Billie with Dean for doing exactly what she warned him against. o not be a big dumb Winchester messing up the universe again. I'm really curious what Billie is gonna do about all this universe crossing over.  Will it be hand waved? s Claire gonna have some consequences for that threat? Either in WS or SPN?

[UNOSEZ]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

My bigger issue with Patience right now is I don't think they've done enough to establish why she would stay in Sioux Falls now. She delivered her vision message and helped them with their problem, but there's really nothing holding her to Sioux Falls right now. I'm sure they will establish it eventually, but of all the characters, I think Patience was the least developed here. 

Well duh... She's black... U should know by now our purpose on most shows is to be there to do things for our white friends and then melt away into the background without much else going on in our lives... That's our main motivation... I mean isn't that why kaia sacrificed her self for biker barbie jesus.. Now BBJ will have a reason to be angry and save the world going fwd... To avenge her minority friend who was terrified of the bad place and all the trauma it's caused her... But hey what's common sense when a pretty lady with blue eyes you just met stares at you and tells you something confidently even if it goes in the face of everything you know to be true.  

 

As for Billie being mad.. Why??.. BBJ Acts just like Dean full of confidence and a healthy dose of "the rules don't apply if it's something I care abt" syndrome and if Dean is special so must BBJ be.  So she"ll sit there doing her super important job maybe mourning the loss if her boss who was murdered for doing his job after showing leniency time and time again and let dean and now BBJ do whatever they want... I mean if she didn't get mad after she herself was murdered to protect yet another blonde person WHO HAD ALREADY BEEN BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE... I doubt she does much but sigh.. Give a Stern talking  to and let's it go... Like so many exacerbated blk law enforcement higher ups when dealing with their rule-breaking get the jib dine loose Cannon white subordinates.... Ok thinly veiled sarcastic rant over.... Can't wait for WS

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

s for Billie being mad.. Why??.. BBJ Acts just like Dean full of confidence and a healthy dose of "the rules don't apply if it's something I care abt" syndrome and if Dean is special so must BBJ be.  So she"ll sit there doing her super important job maybe mourning the loss if her boss who was murdered for doing his job after showing leniency time and time again and let dean and now BBJ do whatever they want... I mean if she didn't get mad after she herself was murdered to protect yet another blonde person WHO HAD ALREADY BEEN BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE... I doubt she does much but sigh.. Give a Stern talking  to and let's it go... Like so many exacerbated blk law enforcement higher ups when dealing with their rule-breaking get the jib dine loose Cannon white subordinates.... Ok thinly veiled sarcastic rant over.... Can't wait for WS

 I literally spoke about Dean and would there be consequences for his, Jack and Sam's actions with opening another rift. I didn't exclude Dean from this. I'm saying it needs to be addressed in the show for the Winchesters and for Claire.  Billie should be mad at all of them is my point. I'm really waiting to see what she does about at all this. 

As for the Winchesters, well they happen to be  white men.  Mary is their mother and she is white.  I suppose they could have cast a white woman to be a reaper and be killed to serve the Winchesters SL like with Tessa but they cast Lisa for Billie. And she ended up getting a weird kind of promotion for being killed. And since reapers can appear however they want per Tessa, she chose to be a black woman, which is pretty interesting to me. 

 If she was white and was killed by Castiel, it would be a white woman who is Death now instead of a black woman. Is that better or worse?  They could have cast any other person of color male or female, for Billie,  and if the plot was always going to be that Billie was to be killed by Castiel and end up the new Death then maybe they went with the best actor that auditioned at that time for Billie and here we are. Of course, had they not killed off Death in the first place then it would still be a white man in charge. 

  Tough call on how to cast Billie in the end. Could be that the casting director just adored Lisa and wanted her and they found a way to bring her back.

My point though is that I'm not letting Dean, Jack, Sam or Claire off for ripping holes in the universe to save people. Billie warned them to not be big Dumb Winchesters and welp....here we are LOL

[UNOSEZ]

8 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

 I literally spoke about Dean and would there be consequences for his, Jack and Sam's actions with opening another rift. I didn't exclude Dean from this. I'm saying it needs to be addressed in the show for the Winchesters and for Claire.  Billie should be mad at all of them is my point. I'm really waiting to see what she does about at all this. 

As for the Winchesters, well they happen to be  white men.  Mary is their mother and she is white.  I suppose they could have cast a white woman to be a reaper and be killed to serve the Winchesters SL like with Tessa but they cast Lisa for Billie. And she ended up getting a weird kind of promotion for being killed. And since reapers can appear however they want per Tessa, she chose to be a black woman, which is pretty interesting to me. 

 If she was white and was killed by Castiel, it would be a white woman who is Death now instead of a black woman. Is that better or worse?  They could have cast any other person of color male or female, for Billie,  and if the plot was always going to be that Billie was to be killed by Castiel and end up the new Death then maybe they went with the best actor that auditioned at that time for Billie and here we are. Of course, had they not killed off Death in the first place then it would still be a white man in charge. 

  Tough call on how to cast Billie in the end. Could be that the casting director just adored Lisa and wanted her and they found a way to bring her back.

My point though is that I'm not letting Dean, Jack, Sam or Claire off for ripping holes in the universe to save people. Billie warned them to not be big Dumb Winchesters and welp....here we are LOL

Oh yeah it's the double edged sword of being a minority in hollywood.. Idds are if the show is aiming for "mainstream appeal"( we mean we want white folks to tune in)  odds are there won't be to many of us.. So if it's an awesome character or not ur gonna want it.. But in the back of ur head u may wonder how it looks as unfortunately u are representational of ur larger community... To ur point. Of course Billie should be mad. Tho since her promotion she's been "read in" on how super important the winchesters are so maybe she will not freak.. Or like I said in my earlwr post.. Like so many cop shows she'll yell and Huff and puff and let them go... 

[Morrigan2575]

15 hours ago, bozodegama said:

I felt bad for Patience.  Not all the girls have to be instant badasses.  I like her character and the not evil Kaia (if she’s not dead).  

I really liked the discussion between Alex and Patience about not being fighters but, helping in other ways. I loved that when push comes to shove both Alex and Patience (the non fighters) stood up and fought as needed.

I got a kick out of Patience's face when she actually hit the orc thing. 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[bozodegama]

52 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Well duh... She's black... U should know by now our purpose on most shows is to be there to do things for our white friends and then melt away into the background without much else going on in our lives... That's our main motivation... I mean isn't that why kaia sacrificed her self for biker barbie jesus.. Now BBJ will have a reason to be angry and save the world going fwd... To avenge her minority friend who was terrified of the bad place and all the trauma it's caused her... But hey what's common sense when a pretty lady with blue eyes you just met stares at you and tells you something confidently even if it goes in the face of everything you know to be true.  

 

 

I don’t know man.  I really liked Patience and thought she was the most attractive of the 4 girls (they’re all attractive). She was like a Deer on the headlights, which is pretty normal for an 18 year old girl facing monsters.  Claire was over the top and she better get a bigger knife.  A 2 inch knife isn’t going to cut it.  I thought the issue with the dad was more racist.  The guy kicks his mother out of his life when she makes a mistake. Then,  he’s like this super single dad but tells his daughter not to come back.  I know they were going for symmetry with John Winchester or even Dean when he tells Sammy after they fight in season 4 if he leaves, not to come back, but they made the dad look like a total dick.  

[catrox14]

4 minutes ago, bozodegama said:

 I know they were going for symmetry with John Winchester

I must be the only person who didn't think James was threatening Patience. I always took it as him telling her straight up that the life itself will keep her from coming back home rather than her not being welcome back into their home. That's how I've always seen that scene.

[DittyDotDot]

11 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I must be the only person who didn't think James was threatening Patience. I always took it as him telling her straight up that the life itself will keep her from coming back home rather than her not being welcome back into their home. That's how I've always seen that scene.

Threatening? No. I don't think he was threatening Patience, but I do think he was saying--in the heat of the moment--that if she chose to leave she wasn't welcome back. I don't think he'll hold to it, but as a young adult out on her own for the first time, I can see why Patience might think he was would and be scared to go back home and face the music.

Edited January 21, 2018 by DittyDotDot

[Pondlass1]

 I think the show will be more successful if they allow the girls to each have their own foibles and faults and not all be overnight super hunters and buddy buddy all the time.  Sam and Dean are far from perfect and here we are still watching after thirteen years.  

I pretty sure that by now TPTB have picked up on the criticisms of Claire.  She needs to be dialed back.

[catrox14]

Just now, DittyDotDot said:

Threatening? No. I don't think he was threatening Patience, but I do think he was saying--in the heat of the moment--that if she chose left, she wasn't welcome back. I don't think he'll hold to it, but as a young adult out on her own for the first time, I can see why Patience might think he was would and be scared to go back home and face the music.

I didn't take that he was saying she wouldn't be welcome back either. I read that scene way differently than most everyone else. I also stated upthread that regardless of how he meant it, Patience took it that way so the damage was done.  Maybe I'm just being kind to James because I think he was a good dad despite his falling out from Missouri, who IMO wasn't a real peach herself in s1, given her shoddy treatment of Dean in Home. I'm still laughing that they said Missouri became a hunter.  I'm starting to think that Berens and Dabb think being tangentially attached to hunting like via research or being a psychic, qualifies one to be labeled a "hunter". 

[Pondlass1]

It's contrived angst that will be revisited once the series is picked up.  Monster kidnaps Dad but he's saved by the girl hunters because of his daughter's visions.  After being saved he will become a hunter too.

Anyone here could probably write the script.

[gonzosgirrl]

15 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

 I think the show will be more successful if they allow the girls to each have their own foibles and faults and not all be overnight super hunters and buddy buddy all the time.  Sam and Dean are far from perfect and here we are still watching after thirteen years.  

I pretty sure that by now TPTB have picked up on the criticisms of Claire.  She needs to be dialed back.

You have more faith in Dabb & Co. than I do. IMO they only seem to pay attention to the smoke being blown up their skirts, and their target audience Tumblr crowd are full of teh!Love for Claire.

[DittyDotDot]

23 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I didn't take that he was saying she wouldn't be welcome back either. I read that scene way differently than most everyone else. I also stated upthread that regardless of how he meant it, Patience took it that way so the damage was done.  Maybe I'm just being kind to James because I think he was a good dad despite his falling out from Missouri, who IMO wasn't a real peach herself in s1, given her shoddy treatment of Dean in Home.

I don't think James issuing an ultimatum negates his good dad status. Parents make stupid ultimatums all the time, doesn't make them bad parents, just bad at finding a better compelling reason to stop their children. Clearly James is a good dad considering that Patience has grown into a confident woman who can think for herself and also has a conscience. I don't even think his cutting Missouri out of their life makes him a bad dad. He did what he thought was best for his daughter and generally seemed to put her first. That's what makes him a good dad. 

I think they purposely paralleled Patience/James with Sam/John to highlight just how good of a parent James is in comparison to John.

23 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'm still laughing that they said Missouri became a hunter.  I'm starting to think that Berens and Dabb think being tangentially attached to hunting like via research or being a psychic, qualifies one to be labeled a "hunter". 

Eh, I don't have a problem with Missouri being a hunter. Not all hunters do it like Sam and Dean. Some of them have homes and families and aren't on the road all the time. I can easily see Missouri working cases, she had plenty of knowledge on how to handle the poltergeist, it's wasn't just her being a psychic. And, she clearly knew more than Sam and Dean on that front.

In fact, it makes perfect sense to me that Missouri was always a hunter as well as a psychic. I just think they didn't get to overtly tell it to us back in S1 because they only got the one episode out the actress when they had planned on a lot more.

Edited January 21, 2018 by DittyDotDot

[sarthaz]

On 1/20/2018 at 10:31 AM, DeeDee79 said:

Interesting review of the episode:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2018/1/19/16907940/supernatural-wayward-sisters-spinoff-pilot-review

This is awful, entitlement garbage and everything wrong with Supernatural fandom and fandom in general.

[Pondlass1]

15 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

target audience Tumblr crowd are full of teh!Love for Claire.

I'm not on tumblr but I would have hoped even millennials would find her irritating.  But let's face it,  millennial TV is devolving at an alarming rate.

[sarthaz]

20 hours ago, Wayward Son said:

But nothing along those lines have been confirmed and fans are just speculating. I’ve been watching this show from season 2 and have seen so many assumptions that the show is going to end, only for it to go on, that I won’t take anything for granted until the official word is out. The show could end next year as many expect, but I also wouldn’t rule out it still being here by season 20 since the ratings are still going strong. 

 

Anyway, I anticipate WS being a one season and done deal and the cynic in me half wonders if the creatives expect it too and just want be in the position to say to critics “we gave you your girl power show and no one watched” 

Jared and Jensen are not going to do the show in any meaningful capacity beyond a year.  It is possible that they find a way to continue the show with them only doing one scene a week that are filmed in bulk, but J2 are going home to their families.  That's a lock.  There's no way around that.  If they continue the show in some way, it won't really be the show, but they may still do it.

As for WS, I don't think they give two shits what the fans think.  They want another hit show and are going to do everything they can to make one.  They're just not good at it.  If it fails, it won't be from lack of effort, just lack of talent.

James gave Patience an ultimatum because that's what John did.  Lazy writing, nothing more.  Don't analyze it too much. :)  When Patience asks Claire why she thinks they're family, expect her to say, "Family don't end in blood, girl."

Edited January 21, 2018 by sarthaz

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

I don't think James issuing an ultimatum negates his good dad status. Parents make stupid ultimatums all the time, doesn't make them bad parents, just bad at finding a better compelling reason to stop their children. Clearly James is a good dad considering that Patience has grown into a confident woman who can think for herself and also has a conscience. I don't even think his cutting Missouri out of their life makes him a bad dad. He did what he thought was best for his daughter and generally seemed to put her first. That's what makes him a good dad. 

I think they purposely paralleled Patience/James with Sam/John to highlight just how good of a parent James is in comparison to John.

Eh, I don't have a problem with Missouri being a hunter. Not all hunters do it like Sam and Dean. Some of them have homes and families and aren't on the road all the time. I can easily see Missouri working cases, she had plenty of knowledge on how to handle the poltergeist, it's wasn't just her being a psychic. And, she clearly knew more than Sam and Dean on that front.

In fact, it makes perfect sense to me that Missouri was always a hunter as well as a psychic. I just think they didn't get to overtly tell it to us back in S1 because they only got the one episode out the actress when they had planned on a lot more.

 Missouri was hunter adjacent in s1. She was not a hunter. It's a retcon, that has room to be a retcon but there was nothing in s1 with Missouri that pointed to her becoming someone who would or could kill a monster. She couldn't even figure out that Mary was in the house before Sam did.  There was no reason to make Missouri a hunter at all. She didn't use her hunter skills to kill the wraith that was going to kill her. I know I know PLOT PLOT PLOT. Bad writing of that plot IMO.

My point though, was that it seems like in this show,  in the past I dunno, 5 years, if someone picks up a book for research, or has a psychic vision they are being called a hunter when those things used to be hunter adjacent. I mean look at the men of letters. They didn't claim to be hunters. Didn't want to be seen as hunters because they were bigoted numbnuts but they also knew they didn't have what it took to do the dirty work like hunters.   Hunting was compared to soldiering because hunters put themselves in harms way for civilians. It's only the BMOL who apparently actually started to kill monsters with their own hands that the line was drawn unless they made the equipment for the British hunters to use and it was hunters doing the dirty work. 

Hunting was a dirty, nasty thing to do that ruined your normal life that had profound consequences to the hunter, the hunter's family. It was done undercover because no one would believe that monsters are real. Much less the devil. They didn't want to terrify the whole world, on purpose anyway so they went into towns to save lives and kill monsters. And even in the Apocalpyse years they tried to keep it all on DL

Now it's like Donna gives a noob and a gun and now they are a hunter! 

[UNOSEZ]

21 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I'm not on tumblr but I would have hoped even millennials would find her irritating.  But let's face it,  millennial TV is devolving at an alarming rate.

Don't lump us all together please.. Many of us I'm sure were irritated by claire and personally I'm a lil ticked that the powers that be think she would be appealing to me.. Alex is def more relatable and cheer worthy in my estimation and I love Jody 

[DittyDotDot]

19 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Missouri was hunter adjacent in s1. She was not a hunter. It's a retcon, that has room to be a retcon but there was nothing in s1 with Missouri that pointed to her becoming someone who would or could kill a monster.

It was never stated that she wasn't a hunter and/or that he didn't kill things as well as being a physic. IMO she clearly new about hunting--what kills what--and I'd assume that knowledge wasn't gained by sitting around telling people their fortunes. I'd guess that it was gained through practical knowledge. I also think it's clear that's what their intention was considering Bobby was her replacement when they couldn't get the actress back. 

19 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Hunting was a dirty, nasty thing to do that ruined your normal life that had profound consequences to the hunter, the hunter's family. It was done undercover because no one would believe that monsters are real. Much less the devil. They didn't want to terrify the whole world, on purpose anyway so they went into towns to save lives and kill monsters. And even in the Apocalpyse years they tried to keep it all on DL

Well, I don't think Missouri being a hunter negates that philosophy. Missouri lost her family because of hunting. I don't think there is anyone being called a hunter who hasn't had consequences to their "regular" lives due to the hunting. IMO, Missouri was no different than Sam and Dean. She still had to operate in the dark and didn't get paid...she just happened to have a day job to make up the difference where the Winchesters had to run credit card scams. I guess I just don't see what about Missouri being a hunter changes anything about hunting. It's still a dirty, nasty thing to do, but some find it's a worthwhile dirty, nasty thing to do regardless.

Edited January 21, 2018 by DittyDotDot

[Pondlass1]

10 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Don't lump us all together please..

You're right.  Apologies.  :)

[Bergamot]

My favorite line from the episode was Alex saying that if Jody needs her help with anything, such as "the dishes, monsters -- I'm there for her." I just liked the way she so straight-forwardly lumped monster-hunting together with doing household chores, to clarify her motivation for helping: to be there for Jody. For me it contrasts her as a character with Claire, who said that she doesn't care if she gets killed, because she is doing "something great". Because for Claire, everything is always about Claire, and how she feels about herself. And yes, in my opinion that includes her desire to get revenge for Kaia at the end.

When Claire is so bratty to Alex about how SHE has a job too -- she's a HUNTER, it made me wonder what she is living on. Probably an allowance from Jody. Unless they want to go the full Mary Sue route, and have her be the best pool and poker player EVER, so that she can easily live on her winnings. I would not put it past these writers to do that.

Remember when Buffy had to get a job at the fast-food place for money, and of course her ex-boyfriend comes looking for her and finds her in her humiliating uniform at the Doublemeat Palace -- because that's the way life always is. (She stares at him in dismay and blurts out, "I have a cow on my hat!" --ha!) I can actually see something equivalent happening to Dean and Sam on Supernatural, where they end up looking ridiculous for some reason, and that is one of the various reasons why I love the show. But I absolutely cannot see them doing something like this with Claire -- not cool or angsty enough for their targeted audience -- and that is one of the various reasons I see no potential in the character.

Unfortunately I do not believe that the spin-off will really be about Alex or Patience or anyone else, and I think those that claim that it will be an ensemble show (you know, not like that OLD show, of course), telling the story of a whole family of women, are wrong. This episode showed that they are setting it up to be the Claire Show. Patience will have a vision to start off the episode, and then Alex will do some research, and Jody will worriedly tell Claire to be careful, and then Claire will be off on another adventure. Which is fine if you are into Claire, but it's not for me.

[Quark]

Claire is definitely the most irritating of the bunch, so I'm at a loss as to why the writers have based a spinoff around her of all characters.

The Kaia twist was interesting.

Can't see this spinoff lasting long.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

It was never stated that she wasn't a hunter and/or that he didn't kill things as well as being a physic. IMO she clearly new about hunting--what kills what--and I'd assume that knowledge wasn't gained by sitting around telling people their fortunes. I'd guess that it was gained through practical knowledge. I also think it's clear that's what their intention was considering Bobby was her replacement when they couldn't get the actress back. 

Just for my edification, if it's not explicitly stated that something didn't happen, then that means it could have happened and is excepted as canon?

It's still a retcon is my point.

I'm not saying she SHOULDN'T have been a hunter, but IMO it's a silly retcon to service Patience and James story. I dislike it for that reason. Missouri being adjacent to hunters put her in just as much danger as not being a hunter at all so James could be pissed about that part as much as anything else. Pamela wasn't ever said to be a hunter either but served the hunter community.  There is nothing wrong with not being a hunter and serving the community with her visions just as she was. It just was a weird retcon that I as pointless as her death.  Patience rift with James could have happened without killing Missouri.

[DittyDotDot]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I'm not saying she SHOULDN'T have been a hunter, but IMO it's a silly retcon to service Patience and James story. I dislike it for that reason.

I don't disagree with you there. I thought it was pretty silly they felt they needed to tie Patience to Missouri when we hadn't seen her in 12 years. I think it would've been better if she was just a granddaughter of some random physic. But, I don't think anything they did with it was actually against canon, just unnecessary silliness on the show's part. But, hey, a lot of things can change if they get picked up for series. Just like with Claire, maybe they're see it maybe wasn't the best choice and adjust that? Stranger things have happened between pilots and series proper.

[7kstar]

5 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

There is nothing wrong with not being a hunter and serving the community with her visions just as she was. It just was a weird retcon that I as pointless as her death.  Patience rift with James could have happened without killing Missouri.

I don't think it's a totally recon for the reason that one ep does not make the entire back story of a character, period.  Missouri was supposed to be Bobby, but they couldn't get the actress so they created Bobby.  So Missouri would know about some hunts but not everything. 

Most writers aren't actors, they don't understand some elements of it.  They focus on what is good storytelling that they are aware of.  They write themselves in corners and then have to figure out how to add to what is already there to go in the direction they want. 

To create a strong character you have to be always learning something, about your character which is why Jensen finds those beats that help the story.  All of the writers for SPN have had issues but either they continue to grow or the show will be dropped.  It won't be given the time that SPN was unless it's competition is so much worse.

WS also sets up a way for Sam and Dean to come visit after SPN ends.

It's just not a biggie for me as it is a small issue, but it is what I expect now.  The need to repeat and rinse.  Maybe they think they are giving us what we want just not as how we expect it...but I would rather they tone some of it down and find it's own voice.  I think that is how the show will survive.

As for the original going, maybe but NCIS has set off two spinoffs which are still working.  So TPTB are looking for that, because the bottom line it's about what sells.

Nothing is perfect about the world of acting but if you compare what is out there today, it is a lot more diverse that it was.  Opportunities for leads to be minorities are out there, Lethal Weapon, How to get away with Murder, comes to mind and several others.  I'm looking for interesting characters and storytelling.  I keep watching SPN more out of stubbornness that I will make it to the finish line.  It has issues and yes I wish they would use Cas in a meaningful way.  JMV

[catrox14]

16 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

But, I don't think anything they did with it was actually against canon, just unnecessary silliness on the show's part

A retcon doesn't have to directly contradicae canon to be a retcon. It's a retcon if it reframes the character or the plot in a significant way which I think it does. Why make Missouri a hunter at all if she's not going to use her hunter skills to defend herself against a monster. Did they tie her death to Patience getting her visions? If they had done that like a generational thing then maybe her death would seem more important.

4 minutes ago, 7kstar said:

I don't think it's a totally recon for the reason that one ep does not make the entire back story of a character, period.  Missouri was supposed to be Bobby, but they couldn't get the actress so they created Bobby.  So Missouri would know about some hunts but not everything. 

IMO, it wouldn't matter if she was going to have an expanded role. And her expanded role doesn't mean she would have become a hunter either. She could have been psychic/research/parental figure without killing monsters per se.

[DittyDotDot]

12 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

A retcon doesn't have to directly contradicae canon to be a retcon. It's a retcon if it reframes the character or the plot in a significant way which I think it does.

And, I don't. I think her being a hunter was their original vision of Missouri as a character, they just didn't get a chance to tell that because the actress was unavailable. It changes nothing about Missouri for me, though. She was in all of one episode and learned nothing about Missouri's background other than she was psychic who John knew.

12 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Did they tie her death to Patience getting her visions?

No, Patience was already getting visions; it was genetic, as I recall. 

Edited January 21, 2018 by DittyDotDot

[gonzosgirrl]

So the TVLine  Quote of the Week from this episode goes to... Dean. This pleases me.

http://tvline.com/gallery/riverdale-fascist-barbie-best-tv-quotes/#!7/supernatural-tastes-like-lizard-quote/

(#7 in the gallery)

 

 

[Res]

52 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So the TVLine  Quote of the Week from this episode goes to... Dean. This pleases me.

http://tvline.com/gallery/riverdale-fascist-barbie-best-tv-quotes/#!7/supernatural-tastes-like-lizard-quote/

(#7 in the gallery)

 

 

LOLOL! I love this!

[catrox14]

51 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So the TVLine  Quote of the Week from this episode goes to... Dean. This pleases me.

http://tvline.com/gallery/riverdale-fascist-barbie-best-tv-quotes/#!7/supernatural-tastes-like-lizard-quote/

(#7 in the gallery)

 

 

I love this. I swear that line wouldn't have worked at all if not for Jensen's A+ delivery. I love that he's just so done with Sam here..

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

I love this. I swear that line wouldn't have worked at all if not for Jensen's A+ delivery. I love that he's just so done with Sam here..

Oh yes! It is 100% down to Jensen's expression and delivery.

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Oh yes! It is 100% down to Jensen's expression and delivery.

This might be one of my favorite Jensen comedic moments in probably 3 seasons. Not the slapstick stuff. This is the comic genius of Jensen. It reminds me of his Yellow Fever speech that 100% relied on his perfect timing of word and pause placement.

[Myrelle]

52 minutes ago, Res said:

LOLOL! I love this!

 

50 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I love this. I swear that line wouldn't have worked at all if not for Jensen's A+ delivery. I love that he's just so done with Sam here..

It was just so Real. :-D  :-D  :-D...