Continuity, Nitpicks, Unanswered Questions and Timeline Headaches: When Did That Honeycrisp Apple Come From

[FabulousTater]

I think Zelena was just paranoid. Emma was the only Achilles heel for her, so that's why she needed that kiss curse.

Which makes Zelena not having Walsh outright kill Emma while she was without any memories in NYC all that more stupid and maddening! Zelena went through the trouble of getting Walsh to A Land Without Magic (when supposedly that was IMPOSSIBLE) and he does what...dates her for 8 months. I mean, come on! It would've been so easy to kill her. Walsh serves her a nice cup of oleander tea and good-bye savior. Not that it's what I wanted to happen but the lack of reasoning for why Zelena didn't even try is just...supremely lazy writing. 

 

JFC, the writers really do write everything around shiny "wouldn't it be cool if" ideas without paying any attention at all to it making sense and without rhyme or reason attached to it all. Ugh.

Edited July 24, 2014 by FabulousTater

[KingOfHearts]

 

Which makes Zelena not having Walsh outright kill Emma while she was without any memories in NYC all that more stupid and maddening!

 

Another theory is that she did send him to kill her, but he fell in love with her and decided not to. When Emma drank the potion, he had to kill her or Zelena would find out.

[FabulousTater]

Another theory is that she did send him to kill her, but he fell in love with her and decided not to. When Emma drank the potion, he had to kill her or Zelena would find out.

Hehe, I applaud your efforts of fanwanking. ;-)

 

....Man, this show... *rolling my eyes*

 

ETA

It's like the entire storyline of Emma dating Monkey Boy (instead of him trying to kill her from the start) was put into the show because someone in the writers room literally said "Hey! Wouldn't it be cool if Emma had been dating a Flying Monkey (who is actually the Wizard of Oz!) while she's in NYC?!" So they just put it in the episode. Aaaand that's as far as the thinking went with it. Just, "Hey, wouldn't it be coool!" It's like 8 year olds with action figures are writing this show. Actual 8 year olds.

Edited July 24, 2014 by FabulousTater

[Mari]

Another theory is that she did send him to kill her, but he fell in love with her and decided not to. When Emma drank the potion, he had to kill her or Zelena would find out.

Maybe, but that means he was lying when he told her he kind of starting to like her. 

 

Personally, my fansplain is he arrived at the same time as the curse people, or in the "prewaves" that allowed the magical wardrobe to go through, and was inserted into Emma's and Henry's memories like Dawn was into the Sunnydale memories in BtVS. 

 

Otherwise, I can't get past street smart, can usually tell when people are lying to her, Emma not once suspecting something was up with Walsh.

[Shanna Marie]

Didn't Hook have an "Aha! You can't kill her!" moment with Zelena about the kiss curse? I don't remember if he referenced the fact that she had her minion watching Emma in New York and didn't do anything, but that's how it plays in my head, that this was part of his proof that her threat to kill Emma was empty. However, I don't know why. I'm not even sure why she sent Walsh to New York to watch Emma when she thought she'd be casting her time travel spell in the Enchanted Forest, which Emma didn't even remember and wouldn't have been able to travel to. Why did Emma need observing?

[FabulousTater]

Didn't Hook have an "Aha! You can't kill her!" moment with Zelena about the kiss curse?

Ya, that's totally what brought the question to my mind and why I asked here. Hook called Zelena on it, but it was never said why Zelena couldn't kill her. Just that Hook said to Zelena, "Hey, wait. You can't kill Emma!" but there was no explanation. Ever.

 

I'm not even sure why she sent Walsh to New York to watch Emma when she thought she'd be casting her time travel spell in the Enchanted Forest, which Emma didn't even remember and wouldn't have been able to travel to. Why did Emma need observing?

And question begets questions. None of it makes reasonable sense to me.

 

I was really hoping that in all my fast-fowarding I had just missed the explanation. Alas...

Edited July 24, 2014 by FabulousTater

[stealinghome]

It's like the entire storyline of Emma dating Monkey Boy (instead of him trying to kill her from the start) was put into the show because someone in the writers room literally said "Hey! Wouldn't it be cool if Emma had been dating a Flying Monkey (who is actually the Wizard of Oz!) while she's in NYC?!" So they just put it in the episode. Aaaand that's as far as the thinking went with it.

I actually think it was a cheat on the writers' part. They wanted Emma to have a Great Life in New York City, and to make it feel like her giving up that life--which included a nice, normal, stable guy--was truly a sacrifice. But then they were like "well shit, if Emma's life in New York was actually that nice, it makes no sense for her to go back to Storybrooke permanently!" So they decided to undercut the whole idea of the nice life. Basically, I just think they wussed out. They just didn't have the balls to make Emma actually have to give up a nice, normal, stable guy when she went back to Storybrooke. (Probably because they couldn't then do Captain Swan.)

[FabulousTater]

So to underscore the whole "you were living a lie!" so she would stay in crazy ass Storybrooke...Meh, I guess I can squint and sorta see that. But as you said it's a cheat. And IMO it also cheapens Emma's emotional experience during that year. Because they basically had her stay in Storybrooke because she really had nothing to go back to not because she did some emotional growing in that one year. It's like Emma's options were Storybrooke or....nothing.

(Though TBH I still think they only did it because they thought having Emma date the Wizard of Oz/A Flying Monkey would be a cool "twist".)

Edited July 25, 2014 by FabulousTater

[KingOfHearts]

 

I actually think it was a cheat on the writers' part. They wanted Emma to have a Great Life in New York City, and to make it feel like her giving up that life--which included a nice, normal, stable guy--was truly a sacrifice.

 

Replying in Relationships thread.

 

During the Curse I could see why Zelena couldn't kill her, but as for the months before, after thinking, I agree with stealinghome that it was more of a cop-out by the writers.

Edited July 25, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I think you identified it, @stealinghome.  But they also undercut themselves because the whole premise that Emma would be safe in NYC was totally untrue given a Flying Monkey could date her for months and she wouldn't even know it. 

 

The Flying Monkey also let the writers off the hook from having to write anything about Emma's feelings of being betrayed by a man she was beginning to fall in love with, since it was all a lie anyway AND he was a monkey to boot.  If Walsh had been a real nice guy, then they couldn't as easily do the Emma/Hook kiss by the end of the season, since Emma would be on the rebound.  Emma would be spending most of the season maybe in denial and then having to face the truth, and go through the process of anger, grief, etc.

 

It's like the entire storyline of Emma dating Monkey Boy (instead of him trying to kill her from the start) was put into the show because someone in the writers room literally said "Hey! Wouldn't it be cool if Emma had been dating a Flying Monkey (who is actually the Wizard of Oz!) while she's in NYC?!"

 

I think this is also a major reason as well.  They needed a twist in the mid-season finale.  They also wanted to parallel the flashback when they saw the Monkey, with Emma killing a Monkey.  So we would "clue in" that it's the same villain behind both.  That was pretty much their narrative structure the entire half season.

 

I said it above sort of jokingly but the Zelena is "Wicked not Evil" might also explain why Zelena didn't kill Emma.  Since she's a villain but deep inside she's human who has been greatly hurt by that father of hers who was mean to her once she became an adult.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Camera One

[retrograde]

I agree with the above thoughts on the Walsh/monkey stuff, but I would also add that I suspect the writers wanted to underscore the fact that Emma and Henry couldn't really escape danger and magic in NYC. Because if they definitely could, moving back is clearly the most rational thing to do. 

[Shanna Marie]

I said it above sort of jokingly but the Zelena is "Wicked not Evil" might also explain why Zelena didn't kill Emma.  Since she's a villain but deep inside she's human who has been greatly hurt by that father of hers who was mean to her once she became an adult.

Really, Zelena didn't do that much damage. Since the portal still opened and baby Snowflake was apparently unharmed, it doesn't seem like her spell hurt the baby. Of course, it would have potentially done serious damage to everyone if she'd succeeded and that was reason enough to stop her, but I can't think of any death other than Neal, and I don't really pin that one on her because he was warned and did it anyway. She didn't kill him. She made the means available and he decided to go for it. Did she kill anyone else? Hook had a higher body count this season and he was a good guy. She barely registers on the scale next to Regina. I'm not making apologies for her, and if she'd won there would have been disastrous consequences, but in the grand scheme of things, she didn't actually do that much permanent harm, and there are a lot of people she could have killed but didn't.

[ParadoxLost]

Really, Zelena didn't do that much damage. Since the portal still opened and baby Snowflake was apparently unharmed, it doesn't seem like her spell hurt the baby. Of course, it would have potentially done serious damage to everyone if she'd succeeded and that was reason enough to stop her, but I can't think of any death other than Neal, and I don't really pin that one on her because he was warned and did it anyway. She didn't kill him. She made the means available and he decided to go for it. Did she kill anyone else? Hook had a higher body count this season and he was a good guy. She barely registers on the scale next to Regina. I'm not making apologies for her, and if she'd won there would have been disastrous consequences, but in the grand scheme of things, she didn't actually do that much permanent harm, and there are a lot of people she could have killed but didn't.

 

But Zelena didn't manage to leave permanent damage only in that she was stopped before she could.  Intent matters even if you fail.

 

The way I took it was that innocence had to be sacrificed and Zelena intended to kill baby Snowflake.  The only reason that the portal opened even though the baby wasn't killed was because Zelena was the Witch of Oz that was given the pendant/position representing innocence. Rumple killing her fulfilled the spell and opened the portal.

 

Plus, turning people into flying monkeys and controlling them and making them attack their friends and family is right up there with Regina taking hearts out of bodies to control her victims.

 

But I do agree that if their is a hierarchy of villians and their bad deeds, Regina is on the top. 

 

Zelena wants to destroy the people she feels have abandoned her or got the attention of those people.  She's focused.

 

Regina wants to destroy everyone who doesn't think that she's the most special snowflake in all the world.  Her primary focus is Snow, but she'll happily take out everyone that likes Snow better, so that's everyone.

 

I wonder if Zelena would have a higher body count if Regina was beloved.  Zelena has fewer targets because Regina doesn't have an entire kingdom worshiping her that Zelena looks at and says that should be mine, they should love me not her.

[angelwoody]

Didn't Hook have an "Aha! You can't kill her!" moment with Zelena about the kiss curse? I don't remember if he referenced the fact that she had her minion watching Emma in New York and didn't do anything, but that's how it plays in my head, that this was part of his proof that her threat to kill Emma was empty. However, I don't know why. I'm not even sure why she sent Walsh to New York to watch Emma when she thought she'd be casting her time travel spell in the Enchanted Forest, which Emma didn't even remember and wouldn't have been able to travel to. Why did Emma need observing?

I'm not clear on whether Zelena can't kill Emma magically, as in "unable" to kill her, or if Zelena can't kill Emma as in "I have reasons why I need her alive."  Because if the only thing stopping her was she couldn't do it with her own magic, what was stopping her from (as others have suggested) having Walsh do it during the 8 months in NYC or Rumple in Storybrook?  Hell, she could have run her over with a car or something during the NYC year while there was no one magical around to heal her.  It's not like Emma is impervious to injuries. 

[wingster55]

So, Hook was in Fairy Tale Land when Belle was a maid for Rumple, and before Snow and Charming met getting drunk and not focused on getting revenge. Yet, he shows up later when Belle is a prisoner in Regina's castle fully intent on getting revenge.

 

Something doesn't add up. 

[Rumsy4]

So, Hook was in Fairy Tale Land when Belle was a maid for Rumple, and before Snow and Charming met getting drunk and not focused on getting revenge. Yet, he shows up later when Belle is a prisoner in Regina's castle fully intent on getting revenge.

Something doesn't add up.

I think that was when Hook was fresh back from Neverland, and was overindulding in carnal pleasures and trying to cope with being back in the EF. But he sobered up at some point and got back on track with his plan of revenge.

[Souris]

He'd been on Neverland for hundreds of years with Lost Boys and creepy, mind-frelling Pan. Of course he'd go to a tavern and get drunk and indulge in some wenches soon after he got back!

[Shanna Marie]

I may have come up with a fanwank/handwave as to how Walsh (and presumably Dorothy) could have been sent back to our world before the curse, when presumably the barriers were still up. Maybe the fact that they're from our world in the first place allowed them to go, while someone originally from the Enchanted Forest wouldn't have been able to. That would be why Walsh in particular was the flying monkey sent for the job.

 

Though I suspect I've just put more thought into this than they did.

[Camera One]

So can we conclude Zelena would be "nice" and send Dorothy back to Kansas instead of some scary realm?  She would need to send her to a place where she can't return since she's supposedly going to bring about Zelena's downfall.  Are we supposed to believe Dorothy did bring about Zelena's downfall by making her green with envy and embrace wickedness once again?  

[Shanna Marie]

So can we conclude Zelena would be "nice" and send Dorothy back to Kansas instead of some scary realm?

Since I seriously doubt the story will ever come up again, I'm going to go with it being pretty straightforward and her sending Dorothy home so she'd be out of her hair. I don't know that Zelena would care enough about making Dorothy suffer to do anything more complicated. That's more her sister's territory, enjoying the suffering. Zelena just liked making people not exist.

 

Are we supposed to believe Dorothy did bring about Zelena's downfall by making her green with envy and embrace wickedness once again?

Possibly. It would fit the concept that anything you do to try to avoid a prophecy is exactly what brings it about. So by freaking out and becoming so paranoid about Dorothy that she went green and wicked, she made the prophecy come true and be about Dorothy. I don't think the prophecy even was all that specific in being about Zelena as a threat. She was just interpreting it that way, but in doing so, she made it about her. But did she actually become the greatest evil in Oz, or whatever that was? I guess it would depend on when she moved to the Enchanted Forest and what she left behind in her wake. She seemed to have moved over sometime between 2A and 3A, since there was no sign of her presence during the Team Princess adventure and she didn't seem to be doing anything about Cora actually being around, but she was already there when the curse was reversed.

[Camera One]

One would think she would have clamoured to meet her mother, so why didn't she try to, considering she seems to have a contraption which allowed her to see all?  Adam Horowitz implied Zelena too was in some sort of protective dome during the 28 years.  But why would that be necessary?  Wouldn't time have continued ticking in Oz?  Is that to explain why she hasn't aged?  Since she was kicked out of the Oz Witch sisterhood, is Zelena technically a witch?  Is a Witch just any woman who can do magic?  

[Shanna Marie]

Adam Horowitz implied Zelena too was in some sort of protective dome during the 28 years.  But why would that be necessary?

I would guess it's to explain her lack of aging, probably a handwave after the fact when they realized they forgot that most of their characters were on hold for 28 years, and so Zelena should have been middle-aged.

 

But that brings up a question I've had about the Coradome: The way Mulan and Philip described it to Aurora, it sounded like time was just frozen in the Dome during the curse. They weren't living the kind of Groundhog Day existence that went on in Storybrooke, where they had lives in the Dome but didn't age (at least, that's the way I interpreted what they said). I couldn't quite tell from the way they talked if time started moving for them when Emma came to town and started time moving in Storybrooke or if it didn't start moving again until the memory part of the curse was broken. I think they mentioned having a great quest to get to Aurora, and since the memory part had only just broken hours before Emma and Snow showed up, that would seem to preclude a quest, unless maybe they were on the quest when they were rudely interrupted by the curse and the Dome, and then they resumed the final stage of the quest. But if it was time moving again, which maps better, then what was Cora up to between time moving again and Emma and Snow showing up? I guess she might not have known about the wardrobe until she followed them, and it might have taken some time/effort to learn about the compass and get the beanstalk climbing tools.

 

The Dome looked pretty big, and if they were just frozen, then I guess Zelena could have been there without knowing her mother was also in the Dome while they were frozen in time.

 

But then there's the time in Oz compared to our world -- the kind of Huckster Walsh was supposed to have been seemed more early 20th century, not from maybe the 80s, and Dorothy had the Judy Garland Great Depression look, not contemporary at all. So was that part of Zelena's story mapped against the 30s in our world? Maybe people don't age at the same rate in Oz.

[Camera One]

Dorothy had the Judy Garland Great Depression look, not contemporary at all. So was that part of Zelena's story mapped against the 30s in our world?

 

If we go with the simplest assumption that time just runs parallel everywhere, and Regina was already learning magic from Rumple, then Dorothy would have been from the 1980s as you estimated.  I know some people in the mid-West now who dresses like that, so it's possible Dorothy was from the 80's.  Walsh had been in Oz for awhile, so maybe he arrived in Oz in the 1930s, which looks like it from his circus memorabilia.  Or maybe the twister took Dorothy through time and space and she really was from the 1930s.  

 

I have another question.  Does Glinda only own four chairs?  

[Rumsy4]

From what Cora said, I think people inside CoraDome were not aware of the non-passage of time, even though they did not have Cursed Identities. Once Time started moving, they realized that they had been Cursed, and started going about their business. 

[Camera One]

At this point, I'd rather like an episode of randoms like Mulan and Philip's Time Tripping Adventures in Cora Dome.

[Camera One]

These are questions about Home Office and the Henrynapping, questions that might truly never be answered:

- Why does Henry out of all the people in all the universe and all time have the Heart of the Truest Believer?  Was it only Henry or were there other candidates?

- Was Peter Pan unsure about Henry, thus the need to "test" him with the flying off the cliff?

- How did Peter Pan get the picture of Henry? 

- How did Peter Pan know to send Peter and Michael even when Henry was a baby?  When did Peter Pan identify the necessary heart as Henry's?

- When did Tamara and Owen get the orders to kidnap Henry, or did they know from the very beginning?  If so, why not do it earlier?

- How did Tamara and Owen meet?  When did they fall in love?  (LOL, I really see this one being answered)

- Why was Tamara so against magic?  Was her grandmother actually an important person?

- Who was the Dragon?  What was he doing on Earth?  

- How did Peter Pan establish "Home Office"?  When did he establish it?

- Who were Tamara and Owen's contact people at Home Office?  Just Peter and Michael?  Or were there others?

- Who else works at Home Office?  Who analyzed the fail safe and told them to detonate it?

- Why did Peter Pan want the fail-safe detonated?

- Who sent Owen to the vicinity of Storybrooke?  How did they discover its location?

- How exactly did Owen's father die?  When did Regina kill him?

- If the Giant wasn't growing beans, how would Tamara and Owen have gotten to Neverland?

- What was Tamara and Owen's original plan anyway?

Edited August 11, 2014 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

 

- Why was Tamara so against magic?  Was her grandmother actually an important person?

- Who sent Owen to the vicinity of Storybrooke?  How did they discover its location?

 

 

Owen remembered how to get there as a child, probably. I, too, would like to know why Tamara was against magic. We'll probably never know anything more about her or Owen, since they were so unpopular.

Edited August 11, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Owen remembered how to get there as a child

 

Oh right... but why did he wait so long?  Did he get a heads-up that the Curse had ended?  If Owen already knew where it was, what was the point of Tamara?

Edited August 11, 2014 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

 

Oh right... but why did he wait so long?  Did he get a heads-up that the Curse had ended?

 

I thought maybe Storybrooke was protected from outsiders by the curse somehow. But that doesn't explain how Henry got through it. Emma probably could because she's the Savior.

 

 

If Owen already knew where it was, what was the point of Tamara?

 

Pan probably needed her to get close to Rumple's son so she could find where Henry is.

Edited August 11, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Maybe the time after the Curse broke, Storybrooke was briefly visible to the outside world until Rumpel put a protection spell on it? That's how Greg found it after all the time.

 

Maybe Henry could leave Storybrooke, because he was not originally from there. That's probably why little Owen could leave the Town as well. 

Edited August 11, 2014 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

 

Maybe Henry could leave Storybrooke, because he was not originally from there. That's probably why Owen could leave the Town as well.

 

I meant how he got through after he was adopted. Why did the cloaking spell work for others, but Henry could still see it?

[YaddaYadda]

Camera One, all your questions regarding Pan is probably why that arc shouldn't have been done in 11 episodes.  I mean it's freakin' Neverland!  I didn't want them spend a whole season in the jungle, but there are so many things they left up in the air.  It's like they went to Neverland so that Rumple can have a jerk father and Henry can be made even more of a special Snowflake (and Regina though she was more enjoyable in the first half than she was in the second one).

[Camera One]

Ironically, I was still working on other Neverland-related unanswered questions... let me know if any of these were answered.

 

- How did Tinkerbelle get to Neverland?

- What did she do for Peter Pan?  What was their relationship?  Was she still involved with him?

- When did Peter Pan give her the dust?  Under what circumstances?

- What was Hook doing for Peter Pan?

- When did Tinkerbelle meet Wendy?

- How did Bae escape the Lost Boys and run away to that cave?

- What did Bae do while in Neverland?  

- How did he find out about the coconut method of trapping the shadow?

- What happened when Bae saw Hook again in Neverland?

- What was Bae's past with Tinkerbelle?

- Why didn't Peter Pan use Wendy to entrap Bae?

- Why did Peter Pan let Bae go?  Did he know Bae would be Henry's father already?

- Why did Peter Pan let Hook go?  

- Why did the Original Shadow of Neverland let Rumple's father stay?

- If Peter Pan had successfully gotten Henry's heart, would he have stayed young forever?  Why was there that hourglass rule?  Why did it have to be on a Skull island/Why did Rumple's father's mind create that whole setup?

- How did the two old women looking after Rumple get the bean?

- Why did Peter Pan want Emma to unlock that map?  Was it only to unnerve her and distance her from her mission?

- Did Peter Pan as Pied Piper intentionally take Bae, or was it a lucky accident?

- If the Darlings had closed the window, would that have stopped the Shadow from coming in to kidnap the children?

- Why was the Shadow still recruiting children (eg. Roland) after Henry had arrived in Neverland?

- Where did Rumple's shadow go?  Dark Hollow too?  Or some other place?

- Did some of the Lost Boys reunite with their parents in Storybrooke?  If not, where did they go?

- When did Regina give back the heart of the Lost Boy?

- Why did Peter Pan have special affinity to Felix?  What was his story?

- Wendy said when night fell, the children started crying.  But not during the day?  Why?  

 

Answered:

- How did Bae escape from Neverland?

Edited August 11, 2014 by Camera One

[Dani-Ellie]

- Wendy said when night fell, the children started crying.  But not during the day?  Why?

 

This wasn't answered in-show as far as I can recall, but my headcanon is that the kids occupied themselves during the day, not unlike going out to play with friends on weekends or during the summer. But nighttime is when kids usually have parents and/or guardians doing some sort of bedtime routine with them, whether it's story and bath time or just winding down in front of the TV together before getting tucked in/heading up to bed. Evening/nighttime is, conventionally, parent/child time, and going to bed alone with no adults to comfort them from the dark is what made these kids really feel the loss of their parents all the more.

[WildeNight]

 

- How did Bae escape from Neverland?

 

 

He captured the Shadow and used it to fly to the Land Without Magic. He mentions it in Dark Hollow.

[retrograde]

- Why did Peter Pan want Emma to unlock that map?  Was it only to unnerve her and distance her from her mission?

Although Pan's "I'm just going to play mind games instead of straight-up killing these people" was ultimately stupid, I think in this case his objective was to force Emma to admit she still felt like an orphan, both throwing her off her game and driving a rift between her and her parents. The map was just a way of pushing her to do it -- because they thought they really needed the map -- but in the end, the map wasn't actually useful to them.

 

Did that explanation even make sense? tl;dr: I don't think it was that he wanted her to unlock the map, so much as unlocking the map was the carrot he was dangling to get her to dig up/admit her feelings. 

Edited August 12, 2014 by retrograde

[PixiePaws1]

I always thought the main purpose o the map was to keep them ooccupied trying to solve it. A time waster to give Pan more time to work on Henry...in that respect itwa an ououtstanding succes!

[Mari]

It also could have easily sown quite a bit of discontent within the group.  Their reactions/expectations were pretty varied.

 

Snow/Charming:  Beamingly proud, expecting Emma to say "Savior" and have it work, only to find out that, well, no.  Emma feels like an orphan.

 

Emma:  Having to talk about her feelings, in public.  Yeah.  Possibly Emma's least favorite thing, and worst skill. 

 

Regina:  Flouncing around, annoyed and angry, because she has little to no power in this situation--Regina's least favorite thing--and plus, not only is this not getting her near Henry, she has to rely on people that she has contempt for, and they seem to be failing.

 

As psychological games go, it did have the potential to completely tear the group apart.

[retrograde]

It also could have easily sown quite a bit of discontent within the group.  

Sure, but he also could have sown discontent by just kneecapping everyone.

 

In the end, Pan's "mind games" only ever made everyone slightly irritable, but there was never a moment where they seemed even close to tearing apart. Even the mermaids did a better job of that.

[Mari]

Sure, but he also could have sown discontent by just kneecapping everyone.

 

In the end, Pan's "mind games" only ever made everyone slightly irritable, but there was never a moment where they seemed even close to tearing apart. Even the mermaids did a better job of that.

Replying in the villain thread.

[Mitch]

Or maybe the twister took Dorothy through time and space and she really was from the 1930s.

 

I always thought that is what the "portals," are, not just transporting people to different realms but different times. I don' think the "enchanted lands," all run concurrently with our time frame, as how would we have all those stories at different times. Snow White's story would have to have been written before it actually happened. Also, a Dorothy from the 80s would have grown up with the iconic story, including her name and her dress, if the time frame ran with ours. In addition, Dorothy new nothing about Oz at all. Unless the writers cheated and did the same thing they did with that dumb Alice spin off and make her from another world that is not ours.  I think that the portals between lands are connected to a certain time and place maybe?

 

In reference to the poster about Zeleana sending Dorothy to a scary place, Dorothy had to be sent home to her own land, as it was not Zelena's choice. Dorothy was wearing the " Silver Shoes," and it was on her own "power" that she left.  Since the writers write in the "Wouldnt it be cool if," style, why didnt they have an aged Dorothy return to Storybrooke and it was actually she that defeats the witch

[ShadowFacts]

Did we ever find out what Henry Mills Senior was doing miniaturized in the box in the vault in Wonderland? 

[KingOfHearts]

 

Did we ever find out what Henry Mills Senior was doing miniaturized in the box in the vault in Wonderland?

Cora trapped him there as leverage for Regina. In Wonderland, there are drinks and foods that change your size, so Cora must have given him some to shrink into the box. He was being held prisoner, basically.

[Mari]

If ripping up the Dark Curse paper made the curse never, ever happen, and all of the people got pulled back into the Enchanted Forest with all of their original horrible hair, thus proving that the Curse was completely undone and hadn't happened, why didn't things like the castles poof back, too?

[KAOS Agent]

I think that undoing the curse undid the stuff it created, but the damage that had been caused tearing all of that stuff out of the Enchanted Forest wouldn't be fixed because the damage wasn't part of the curse it was just a negative consequence of it. Plus, you had 30 years of overgrowth, etc that did happen in the Enchanted Forest which also would not be a part of the curse. It was just a result of no one being there the care for it all. 

[KingOfHearts]

 

It was just a result of no one being there the care for it all.

 

Plus the ogres terrorizing everything. I think Snow's castle may have been specifically destroyed because it seemed to be sort of an "epicenter" for the curse. (The "tornado" in the nursery.)

Edited August 24, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[stealinghome]

Yeah, my take on the Enchanted Forest is that aside from Snow's castle, the curse didn't really hurt any physical objects--the destruction came from 30 years of neglect plus ogres/animal/natural world (storms and so forth)/etc. damage.

[KingOfHearts]

Why is there a flying monkey in the pilot when the curse is coming? If it's not a flying monkey, what is it?

[Dani-Ellie]

I thought it was a dragon? I always assumed it was a dragon, anyway.

[Amerilla]

Based on a debate about LaceyBelle over on the Happily thread: did the Curse actually give people memories of a whole life?

 

For instance: Does Mary Margaret Blanchard remember growing up with Ma and Pa Blanchard? Does David Nolan remember where he and Kathryn went for their honeymoon? Did Gold remember reading enough law to managed contracts? Does he know his own first name? Or did Regina just give everyone as sense that they had lived these lives, but without form or detail?

Edited September 1, 2014 by Amerilla